Auto-Immune Protocol Diet?

[javanov]

This is a sort of paleo diet, anyone trying it?

So far not bad, here's my rough list of foods

breakfast: 2-3 small bits pf parsley (just to abate hunger)

lunch: a chopped up carrot with a bit of olive oil salt + vinegar (again mostly to abate hunger)

dinner: chicken + kale on a bed of chopped sauteed carrots. Seasoning of all uses coriander (leaf not seed), bay leaf, rosemary, thyme, peppermint and salt + vinegar and lemon or lime

afters: tinned/fresh grapefruit/strawberries/raspberries with mint chocolate icing (made only using fresh cocoa powder, icing sugar, peppermint and water)

Sometimes I have an orange in the day

 

[nogutsnoglory]

I did it and lost so much weight and got so sick and malnourished. From my experience I advise against it. So many foods are great for nutrition and ibd bodies need them.

 

[javanov]

Thanks for sharing your experience

What do you think you missed that caused malnourishment?

I'm trying to use carrots as my sort of bread, I think I do need to eat more of them but seems rounded overall when I have that dinner described above with enough of each thing

 

[nogutsnoglory]

I think nuts and eggs are critical sources that are eliminated on AI protocol. Personally paleo was a disaster for me and I'm still trying to recover. I do best on mainly paleo but also having grains and pasture raised. dairy.

 

[Justanothercp]

I'm thriving on Paleo/low FODMAP.
I guess everyone has to find their own way.
Can be frustrating.

 

[javanov]

I think nuts and eggs are critical sources that are eliminated on AI protocol. Personally paleo was a disaster for me and I'm still trying to recover. I do best on mainly paleo but also having grains and pasture raised. dairy.

Ah, see I really can't eat eggs -- definitely not, without feeling really unwell

Nuts seem to upset my stomach too

I think as said, it's different for everyone

 

[javanov]

I'm thriving on Paleo/low FODMAP.
I guess everyone has to find their own way.
Can be frustrating.

Please share some of what you eat?

It's good someone else is on this diet :thumleft:

 

[Justanothercp]

Javanov,
Meat- lots of meat and fish. Lots of veggies/fruits- mostly trying to follow LOW FODMAP fruits/veggies. Veggie all cooked very well/overdone, and no skins of veggies or fruits. I do eat nut/eggs. No other dairy no wheat/grains/beans. Nothing processed. Drink only water except for occasional alcohol (amaretto). I juice every morning.
I make a lot of soups. It takes a lot of time cooking/preparing. Many trips to grocery due to perishables. And is quite expensive because I've gone organic.
But again, it's making me feel better than I have in 20 yrs, so I'm willing to sacrifice.

 

[UnXmas]

This is a sort of paleo diet, anyone trying it?

So far not bad, here's my rough list of foods

breakfast: 2-3 small bits pf parsley (just to abate hunger)

lunch: a chopped up carrot with a bit of olive oil salt + vinegar (again mostly to abate hunger)

dinner: chicken + kale on a bed of chopped sauteed carrots. Seasoning of all uses coriander (leaf not seed), bay leaf, rosemary, thyme, peppermint and salt + vinegar and lemon or lime

afters: tinned/fresh grapefruit/strawberries/raspberries with mint chocolate icing (made only using fresh cocoa powder, icing sugar, peppermint and water)

Sometimes I have an orange in the day

You are going to lose weight very fast if this is what you're eating.

 

[javanov]

To be fair, I usually eat equally as much (or little), eating too much makes me feel pretty unwell. Sadly I sometimes binge on food (although it's usually not that unhealthy to be honest) because I was hungry before, but trying to slowly work up to a balance. Upsets are to be expected here and there I have had periods of a decent diet for about a month at a time

 

[hugh]

don't know if you've seen these pages but they might be useful,
Keep us informed and best wishes,
http://aiplifestyle.com/what-is-autoimmune-protocol-diet/
http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol

 

[javanov]

The second link had some good info, already have the 1st bookmark'd

Thanks

 

[LodgeLady]

Proper nutrition is critical to managing IBD. Finding that balance is hard. You have to get the nutrients some way. It caught up with me and took me two months to totally restructure my eating habits and diet. I'm still not gaining any weight but feel so much better. Elimination should only be temporary.

 

[javanov]

You are right, I was considering something like centrum to help top up anything missing, I also have a nice orange vitamin pill in the morning that seems to provide a bit of a lift

 

[hugh]

hi javanov,
you do know you are not eating enough right?
There are times that we just don't feel like it and that's ok, but you want to look at adding a few more plaeo AI allowed foods in, particularly the healing ones (bone broth, organ meat, seafood, well cooked veggies).
Healing requires nutrition so try to eat a bit more (increase slowly if you feel better that way
Your treat dessert is not AI paleo.
read the list on paleomoms site and add a bit more in
"Perhaps even more importantly than removing foods that negatively impact gut health or stimulate the immune system, is eating a nutrient-dense diet."
So, just as some foods should be eliminated, there is also a focus on eating more of the following........:
-organ meat and offal (aim for 5 times per week, the more the better)–read more here.
- fish and shellfish (wild is best, but farmed is fine) (aim for at least 3 times per week, the more the better)–read more here and here.
-vegetables of all kinds, as much variety as possible and the whole rainbow, aim for 8-14 cups per day
Green vegetables
Colorful vegetables and fruit (red, purple, blue, yellow, orange, white)
Cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, kale, turnips, arugula, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, watercress, mustard greens, etc.)
-Sea vegetables (excluding algae like chlorella and spirulina which are immune stimulators)
-quality meats (grass-fed, pasture-raised, wild as much as possible) (poultry in moderation due to high omega-6 content unless you are eating a ton of fish)
-quality fats (pasture-raised/grass-fed animal fats [rendered or as part of your meat], fatty fish, olive, avocado, coconut, palm [not palm kernel])
-fruit (keeping fructose intake between 10g and 20 g daily)
-probiotic foods (fermented vegetables or fruit, kombucha, water kefir, coconut milk kefir, coconut milk yogurt, supplements)–read about them here and here.
-glycine-rich foods (anything with connective tissue, joints or skin, organ meat, and bone broth)
http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol

remember, it's only for a while and other foods are added (after testing)

 

[javanov]

But I read that coconut is not low-FODMAP, to be honest I love coconut so that was a bit of a downer.

 

[UnXmas]

hi javanov,
you do know you are not eating enough right?
There are times that we just don't feel like it and that's ok, but you want to look at adding a few more plaeo AI allowed foods in, particularly the healing ones (bone broth, organ meat, seafood, well cooked veggies).
Healing requires nutrition so try to eat a bit more (increase slowly if you feel better that way
Your treat dessert is not AI paleo.
read the list on paleomoms site and add a bit more in
"Perhaps even more importantly than removing foods that negatively impact gut health or stimulate the immune system, is eating a nutrient-dense diet."
So, just as some foods should be eliminated, there is also a focus on eating more of the following........:
-organ meat and offal (aim for 5 times per week, the more the better)–read more here.
- fish and shellfish (wild is best, but farmed is fine) (aim for at least 3 times per week, the more the better)–read more here and here.
-vegetables of all kinds, as much variety as possible and the whole rainbow, aim for 8-14 cups per day
Green vegetables
Colorful vegetables and fruit (red, purple, blue, yellow, orange, white)
Cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, kale, turnips, arugula, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, watercress, mustard greens, etc.)
-Sea vegetables (excluding algae like chlorella and spirulina which are immune stimulators)
-quality meats (grass-fed, pasture-raised, wild as much as possible) (poultry in moderation due to high omega-6 content unless you are eating a ton of fish)
-quality fats (pasture-raised/grass-fed animal fats [rendered or as part of your meat], fatty fish, olive, avocado, coconut, palm [not palm kernel])
-fruit (keeping fructose intake between 10g and 20 g daily)
-probiotic foods (fermented vegetables or fruit, kombucha, water kefir, coconut milk kefir, coconut milk yogurt, supplements)–read about them here and here.
-glycine-rich foods (anything with connective tissue, joints or skin, organ meat, and bone broth)
http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol

remember, it's only for a while and other foods are added (after testing)

I know Hugh and I have very different opinions about a healthy diet, but I agree with him on this: you're not eating enough. Even if you are overweight (I'm not sure if you are, but even if you are), you will do better with more food to provide everything you need. Eating more may also help with the binges you mention, as I have read that binging can be caused by, or worsened by, eating too little at other times. If you've been deprived of food, your body sends you signals it wants more, so when you do eat, you might feel the urge to eat more than you intended. Eating more but eating it consistently, without periods of under-eating, may help stop the urge to binge.

I don't personally advocate the paleo diet or other similar diets, but I know a lot about struggling to eat enough, and if you want to stick to the foods which Hugh has listed above, I would say add in some of the fats and meats: olive oil is very easy to add to other things, and you could make your lunch based around meat or oily fish. Also eat breakfast! Is there a reason you're not really eating breakfast or lunch?

I know it's horrible struggling to eat when you feel ill - I seem to spend my life doing just that - but sometimes you just have to to avoid worse health problems in the future.

 

[javanov]

He may have a point about needing more nutrition for healing than elmination, that's something I've noticed at points

I'm not overweight at all, far the opposite the doctors constantly moan that I don't weight anywhere near enough

I do use olive oil exclusively, it's a necessity to be honest just for flavour alone.

Well, I felt OK the day when I actually stuck to that list, one of the other days (typically) I missed my unch and felt really weak in my arms the next day.

I think yes you are both right, must eat more food and stick to the diet, there are a lot of stipulations in my case though sadly:

One is not much money to go shopping with, which is limiting to say the least.

Thinking on what I can add to my diet and what I need to eliminate, I think raspberries and strawberries are okay in this paleo diet, but grapefruit isn't (?). The cocoa is probably not a great idea. Adding courgettes would help and probably varying the meats I eat, also eating something more wholesome for breakfast, thinking of maybe an advocado.

I will say I make my dinner quite big to make up for the lack of eating in the day, when I get the amount right this seems to work.

 

[hugh]

But I read that coconut is not low-FODMAP, to be honest I love coconut so that was a bit of a downer.

FODMAPS is one of those diets where foods are eliminated for a while and then reintroduced to see if there is a problem. Just because a food contains FODMAPS (Fermentable Oliogosaccharides Disaccharides Monosaccharides And Polyols) doesn't mean that you can't eat them. The whole point of the diet is to eliminate them and then reintroduce to see if they are tolerated. Listen to this podcast (http://scdlifestyle.com/?powerpress_pinw=4905-podcast ) for a great overview.
avoid any coconut products with additives or preservatives (gaur gum etc).

I think yes you are both right, must eat more food and stick to the diet, there are a lot of stipulations in my case though sadly:

One is not much money to go shopping with, which is limiting to say the least.

Thinking on what I can add to my diet and what I need to eliminate, I think raspberries and strawberries are okay in this paleo diet, but grapefruit isn't (?). The cocoa is probably not a great idea. Adding courgettes would help and probably varying the meats I eat, also eating something more wholesome for breakfast, thinking of maybe an advocado.
.

The thread title refers to the paleo AI protocol diet.
Perhaps read through the websites a couple more times to gain a better understanding of what it is.
There is a fairly clear list of what to avoid and what to eat more of.
picking one or two things out does not mean that you are doing the diet.

paleo on a budget is possible, after all MOST of your meals should be mainly MEAT and VEGETABLES,

Find a butcher (rather than a supermarket) and buy offal and cheap cuts -bones, flaps (diaphragm) (lamb is easier on my stomach than beef).
Beware of hamburger, sausages, anything that may be more than just meat.
Mince is ok if it is just minced meat.
Google "slow cooking" - it can be done in an ordinary oven.
(cook on hot oven for 20 min, then turn oven down to 160C and cook till falling off bone.
Eat as much of the tendon and connective tissue as you can).
Google bone broth!
Go to markets late in the day and get what vegetables are going cheap - BUT PLEASE use the elimination principles (of both paleo AI and Fodmaps) - eat one new food for a couple of days and see if there is a reaction, If not add it to your list of foods, if there is leave it out and move on to the next one.

 

[javanov]

FODMAPS is one of those diets where foods are eliminated for a while and then reintroduced to see if there is a problem. Just because a food contains FODMAPS (Fermentable Oliogosaccharides Disaccharides Monosaccharides And Polyols) doesn't mean that you can't eat them. The whole point of the diet is to eliminate them and then reintroduce to see if they are tolerated. Listen to this podcast (http://scdlifestyle.com/?powerpress_pinw=4905-podcast ) for a great overview.
avoid any coconut products with additives or preservatives (gaur gum etc).



The thread title refers to the paleo AI protocol diet.
Perhaps read through the websites a couple more times to gain a better understanding of what it is.
There is a fairly clear list of what to avoid and what to eat more of.
picking one or two things out does not mean that you are doing the diet.

paleo on a budget is possible, after all MOST of your meals should be mainly MEAT and VEGETABLES,

Find a butcher (rather than a supermarket) and buy offal and cheap cuts -bones, flaps (diaphragm) (lamb is easier on my stomach than beef).
Beware of hamburger, sausages, anything that may be more than just meat.
Mince is ok if it is just minced meat.
Google "slow cooking" - it can be done in an ordinary oven.
(cook on hot oven for 20 min, then turn oven down to 160C and cook till falling off bone.
Eat as much of the tendon and connective tissue as you can).
Google bone broth!
Go to markets late in the day and get what vegetables are going cheap - BUT PLEASE use the elimination principles (of both paleo AI and Fodmaps) - eat one new food for a couple of days and see if there is a reaction, If not add it to your list of foods, if there is leave it out and move on to the next one.

Thanks for some of the tips, I do understand how the diet works and that you can have some things but only in moderation and balance.

One of my problems is "too much of a nice thing" I confess to having a bit of a sweet tooth, where I don't drink or smoke or anything like that food has always been a bit of a substitute comfort for me. :redface:

And thanks for the earlier post as well, I do have to try eliminating things and taking it more slowly, not ruling so much stuff out. A lot of stuff does disagree with my system though...and coconut has traditionally been a curveball for me, sometimes it's OK sometimes not

 

[Axelfl3333]

I agree with Hugh and unxmas as your diet isn't,t enough to get well,we all have spells when we can,t don,t eat but only for short periods you must increase your calories to get well have you tried fish,chicken,white rice,soup try adding turmeric and some flavouring you know is safe for you with rice to relieve the monotony with your diet.be wary about some of the kooky diets on dr google and before I get shot down in flames I know lots of people need a specific diet monitored by there doctor.all the best
P.s does your doctor know about your diet?

 

[UnXmas]

He may have a point about needing more nutrition for healing than elmination, that's something I've noticed at points

I'm not overweight at all, far the opposite the doctors constantly moan that I don't weight anywhere near enough

I do use olive oil exclusively, it's a necessity to be honest just for flavour alone.

Well, I felt OK the day when I actually stuck to that list, one of the other days (typically) I missed my unch and felt really weak in my arms the next day.

I think yes you are both right, must eat more food and stick to the diet, there are a lot of stipulations in my case though sadly:

One is not much money to go shopping with, which is limiting to say the least.

Thinking on what I can add to my diet and what I need to eliminate, I think raspberries and strawberries are okay in this paleo diet, but grapefruit isn't (?). The cocoa is probably not a great idea. Adding courgettes would help and probably varying the meats I eat, also eating something more wholesome for breakfast, thinking of maybe an advocado.

I will say I make my dinner quite big to make up for the lack of eating in the day, when I get the amount right this seems to work.

Courgettes and berries are not going to help you. If you are underweight and not taking in enough calories, healing will be compromised.

How can you tell whether symptoms are a reaction to a particular food, or just coincidence? If you can't afford to do the diet adequately, maybe you shouldn't try it yet.

 

[javanov]

Because I noticed in the past that eating 'that' food caused adverse effects, when I was better than at present

As said I felt okay the other day, the key was eating a bit extra in the daytime.

Eating something 'heavy', in the daytime, on top of that dinner will definitely make me feel unwell. There is no point even considering it, I've tried that a million times before and it never changes.

I think I'd have to have a TINY bit of something like a bone broth in order for a sort of meaty lunch to be on the menu, which is difficult because that automatically engages my system into expecting a decent portion.. it might be an idea though.

I think there is a case to be made for everyone's individual needs, my needs are not the same as a lot of other people's.

 

[UnXmas]

Because I noticed in the past that eating 'that' food caused adverse effects, when I was better than at present

As said I felt okay the other day, the key was eating a bit extra in the daytime.

Eating something 'heavy', in the daytime, on top of that dinner will definitely make me feel unwell. There is no point even considering it, I've tried that a million times before and it never changes.

I think I'd have to have a TINY bit of something like a bone broth in order for a sort of meaty lunch to be on the menu, which is difficult because that automatically engages my system into expecting a decent portion.. it might be an idea though.

I think there is a case to be made for everyone's individual needs, my needs are not the same as a lot of other people's.

Definitely people have different needs, I'm sorry if my post sounded critical. But I am very underweight and have been for a long time, and I know how it can damage your health. Eating makes you feel ill immediately, so it's easy to see the benefits when you forgo it. But being underweight, harm creeps up on you silently, and you don't realise the damage it's caused until it's too late. I've learned this, but I was late learning this, and a lot of damage has been done. So I hope you can see why I'd advise you to make eating enough a priority. You can't know for sure whether sticking to a paleo diet or autoimmune diet or whatever is going to benefit you, but you can know for sure that being underweight and still not eating enough exposes you to many risks.

Stick to the autoimmune diet if you believe it stands a chance of helping you, but only if you can make it work in a way that provides you with all your nutritional needs - even if that means putting up with more symptoms in the short-term. Have you discussed the symptoms eating gives you with a doctor recently? Are there ways (medications, etc.) to help manage these symptoms so that it is easier for you to eat more?

 

[javanov]

No worries I didn't interpret your post that way at all, I appreciate the concern if anything and your helpful input. I think being underweight is secondary to, as you said eariler, being malnourished and damaging yourself internally. I do take measures to avoid this as much as possible//that is why I am worried about this, of course the stress doesn't help.

My doctor doesn't yet know, the medication I take to help is quite simple at the moment because my primary diagnosis is still ongoing with the dcotor (in the process of changing surgeries too). At the moment it's just colofac which seems to help alleviate spasms in my gut and digestive enzyme tablets (these help a lot, but they do also make me hungrier..)