Dairy + Probiotics = Bleeding?

[Cat-a-Tonic]

I've known for awhile that probiotics are not my friend. I was taking probiotic capsules for some time, but my GERD gradually worsened while I was on them, so I discontinued and the GERD got a bit better. Then at one point I decided to try Greek yogurt, as I kept hearing that it's so healthy. I figured it was the probiotics doing this to me, but at any rate I spent several days in pain and that was the only time I've passed blood (I've had blood on the TP from hemmies and/or fissures, but that was the only time blood was actually in the toilet and not just on the paper).

So, lately I've been trying to eat healthier. I'm lactose intolerant, but milk and cheese (particularly melted/greasy cheese like on a pizza) are the two worst triggers for me, I can get away with small amounts of most other dairy products. I've been snacking on cottage cheese lately, it sits fine in my stomach and hadn't caused any issues that I've noticed. But I had been eating it once every few days - this week I've had it every day. And today, I noticed a small amount of blood in the toilet, and my stomach is pretty unsettled. I googled, and cottage cheese does appear to contain a small amount of probiotics. I'm thinking now that it might be a combo of probiotics and dairy which makes me bleed. I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed a similar problem? I'm not usually a bleeder, and dairy alone doesn't seem to make me bleed (I can eat ice cream all day every day and I'm fine). Probiotics alone make my GERD worse but no bleeding, so it seems it must be the combo of the two. Anyone else experience bleeding after eating something that is both dairy and contains probiotics?

 

[xX_LittleMissValentine_Xx]

Could it just be the lactose intolerance which is making you bleed rather than the probiotic factor? x

 

[xX_LittleMissValentine_Xx]

You might find this interesting - http://www.intolerantaulactose.fr/sites/default/files/experts/li_in_clinical_practice__myths.pdf

Has about the amount of lactose in different dairy products and does mention probiotics and gut microflora. Though this suggests they would be beneficial due to the lactic acid bacteria.

I appreciate though this is talking about lactose intolerance rather than IBD which might be what you were interested in.

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

Thanks LMV. I don't think it's the lactose intolerance by itself though - I've had lactose intolerance for way longer than I've had IBD. I developed lactose intolerance when I was about 20, and the IBD didn't manifest until just before I turned 30 (I'm 33 now). I admittedly love pizza and cheese and will sometimes eat that stuff even though it causes bloating, gassiness and d (I take the lactaid enzyme tablets which help somewhat) - but it's never caused bleeding, not in 13+ years of being lactose intolerant, so I don't think it's that. I used to be able to eat yogurt & cottage cheese just fine until IBD came along, only then did it seem to start causing me trouble. So it must be something more, and I know probiotics by themselves do cause me trouble too, which is why I'm thinking it's the combination of the two that is doing me in. Particularly since I've only had the 2 bleeding episodes and one was right after Greek yogurt and the other was right after cottage cheese, but I've eaten pizzas recently that made me feel unpleasant but did not make me bleed. It feels like it's got to be something more than just lactose by itself.

 

[Justsofi]

Hi cat a tonic,

I have had to stop probiotics because it was making my crohns pain severely bad. I've heard and read from other people that its because its the bacteria in the pill fighting with the bacteria in our gut. They've suggested that you go very slowly with any probiotics. Maybe just start with once a week. I've stopped all yogurt, probiotics and other fermented dairy. Just too much pain. But I would talk to your doc about it. See what they say. Hope this helped some

 

[xX_LittleMissValentine_Xx]

Hmm... I've just had a thought. My GI told me to have two actimel drinks a day when I told him I get thrush a lot.
He obviously knows I have crohn's. (I haven't taken up this advice)

 

[mickey]

Another thought is the brand of probiotics may not be the one for you. Read up on Dr. Ivan Bogdanov of Sofia, Bulgaria and his studies on probiotics. May be interesting reading material for you. You may have other food sensitivities, in addition to lactose. Doc informed me approx 80% of public has undiagnosed sensitivity/allergy to corn and wheat and do not know it. One sensitivity (i.e., lactose) may trigger inflammation, which will cause reaction to another item (i.e., wheat) more than usual. After reading enough on probiotics, I know that I can not go a day without them. It should contain a certain strain of bacteria in it (you can see that on reading Dr's study above). Bleeding may be internal hemorroids, but can also be caused by some bulkier stools caused by dairy. A thought...

Hope you are well soon!

 

[Beach]

I used to bleed some. The problem started out small, and grew worse over time. I had an exam done and it was found I had developed a small fissure. The bleeding didn't always happen after eating milk products, but I eventually did come to believe there to be a link to eating dairy and the blood.

The problem went away after I changed my diet. I stopped eating grains along with dairy for a good long while, and didn't bleed again.

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

Thanks guys. I'm still feeling nauseous today and the guts are not happy - I've had a couple episodes of d already this morning. I haven't had any more bleeding though so hopefully this means I'm on the mend. I didn't have any night sweats last night so it's not a flare, which is also good news. I have been "cheating" too much diet-wise and having too much dairy lately, so it's time to cut out dairy for awhile. Justsofi, I am with you, probiotics are just not worth the trouble they cause me, so I'm avoiding them altogether. Beach, I've had fissures in the past, and this didn't feel like one. When I had fissures, I would get a small amount of blood on the TP, but never in the toilet - I would also get anal pain. Yesterday there was a small amount (just a few drops' worth) in the toilet, and no anal pain, so probably not a fissure. I don't have any hemmies that I know of either, no external ones and the last time I checked no internal ones either. So, I don't think it was a fissure or a hemmie. It was bright red blood and just a small amount, so I'm not too worried - but since I am not usually a bleeder, any time I have blood is not good.

Long story short - no more dairy for awhile for me, and no probiotics unless I'm on antibiotics.

 

[Charleigh]

I know that you already have responses but I thought I would add. Certain probiotics made E worse. Anything with Bifida, bifidum, etc is not supposed to be good for IBD. A pure acidophilus has been very beneficial though.

Also, E just can't tolerate milk in any form. We were excited to finally try cheese but it turned out to be a problem for him, even if it was hard, aged cheese. Since aged cheese is lactose free, it appears that the milk protein is a problem and not just the lactose. Maybe you are the same?

 

[Jennifer]

Hey Cat. When were your last scopes (both colonoscopy and endoscopy) done? I haven't read anywhere that any type of food will cause bleeding. Usually bleeding happens with tissue that's already damaged. I'd want a scope done if you haven't had one recently. Even if you think the symptoms aren't that bad/mild/don't believe its a flare its important to know that every flare is different so you may be seeing signs of some internal damage right now yet I wouldn't wait for it to get worse. Its very easy to blame our symptoms on something we ate but its important to find the real cause through testing so you can have proper treatment. Its also possible that you might have bleeding that you can't see so having stool tests to check for blood and inflammation is a good start.

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

Jennifer, last upper endoscopy was in November, but last colonoscopy was about 3 years ago. GI isn't keen to do another c-scope unless symptoms come back. I'm still in remission as far as I know, and I don't really get symptoms unless I eat something that doesn't agree with me. My last set of bloodwork was fine (it usually is though, my CRP & ESR don't seem to go up in a flare so I think I'm in that unlucky 10% of people who don't get raised inflammatory markers).

I feel totally better today so I do think it was just that my body didn't like what I ate. I'm not sure how that could cause bleeding, but I only bled the one day, my stools are back to normal, no more nausea, I feel fine. I see my GI at the end of the month so I'll of course mention this to him, but when I told him about the other time I bled (after eating Greek yogurt), he didn't seem particularly concerned.

Charleigh, that's an interesting thought about the milk protein. I don't think that's it though - I can do goat cheese just fine, it's never caused me a problem. I'm not sure how similar the proteins are in cow vs goat dairy - but goat dairy is always easy on me. Does your child have issues with goat cheese?

 

[Charleigh]

Charleigh, that's an interesting thought about the milk protein. I don't think that's it though - I can do goat cheese just fine, it's never caused me a problem. I'm not sure how similar the proteins are in cow vs goat dairy - but goat dairy is always easy on me. Does your child have issues with goat cheese?

I don't "think" he does but we haven't tested that out enough to know for sure. I know several people who can eat goat's cheese or drink goat's milk that cannot tolerate any amount of cow's milk protein though.

"While the protein structure of cow and goat milk is fairly similar, goat milk is missing an alpha casein present in cow’s milk. In addition, when you drink a glass of goat milk and it reacts with the acid in your stomach, the protein curds that precipitate are smaller in size and a bit softer than the ones that form with cow’s milk. This is another reason some folks find goat milk to be more easily digested than cow milk."

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/is-goat-milk-healthier-than-cow-milk/