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Endoscopy clear!!!! awaiting biopsy results

Hi
My son is 2 1/2 and had severe D since birth along with tummy pains, over the last 12months hes been having blood in his stools.
We finally had endoscopy done on Friday they could get scope to 3rd part of duodenum and all looked clear apart from blood and Mucus. He's bloods showed high inflammation somewhere but not sure where, he has ulcers in his mouth and still D at the moment
So my question is can an Endoscopy show clear but Crohns still be the cause? Gastro specialist wants to do laparotomy in a few weeks.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated. :sign0085:
 

Dexky

To save time...Ask Dusty!
Location
Kentucky
Did they not do a colonoscopy? My understanding is endoscopy is through the esophagus right? It wouldn't show lower gi tract and crohns can be anywhere from mouth to anus.
 
Robertsmorcom,
Hey, I'm sorry to read about your son. I don't know if you have already thought of this, but it might be worth a test or asking your son's gastro. My sister was diagnosed with Celiacs disease when she was two. It was causing all kinds of problems with her digestive system until they diagnosed her with Celiacs, which is an allergy to gluten. She switched to a gluten free diet and is now 26 and healthy as an horse. I am 29 and I recently had a bout with colitis, which I'm going in to the gastro tomorrow to get set up for a Celiac test. I have researched and seen that it is pretty common that people are diagnosed with UC and Crohns to be found years later that they had an issue with gluten. I have been eating Gluten free for about two weeks now and I haven't had any of the problems I was having before (bloody stools, frequent bowel movements, tired, etc). I don't know whether to blame it on the prednisone and Asacol or my diet change. It's definately something to look into if you haven't already. I wish you and your son the best!

Diddy
 

AZMOM

Moderator
I agree that the celiac is worth a question. When Claire was in the hospital, our roommate was a baby with bloody mucousy stools and it ended up being a specific protein allergy. Did the doctor do a colonoscopy too?

Sorry to just parrot what everyone else has said.......we're all just confused like you are. So you know you're not alone!!!

Let us know........
 
Hey thanks for your comments, yes they looked in both ends but was told it was Endoscopy, lots of biopsy taken from bottom end as I said they found blood and mucus but couldnt see where it was coming from. He has been tested for celiac and also dairy/lactose free diets in the past.
He has been having what I call an episode since the hospital gave him laxatives to clear him out prior to having a look, hes had mouth ulcers, D, fever, vomittting and was up pretty much all night last night with knee pains....still waiting for biopsy results and feeling very frustrated!
thanks again
 

xJillx

Your Story Forum Monitor
Robertsmorcom,
My sister was diagnosed with Celiacs disease when she was two. It was causing all kinds of problems with her digestive system until they diagnosed her with Celiacs, which is an allergy to gluten. She switched to a gluten free diet and is now 26 and healthy as an horse.
Would celiac cause inflammation and ulcerations??
 
Hi
My son is 2 1/2 and had severe D since birth along with tummy pains, over the last 12months hes been having blood in his stools.
We finally had endoscopy done on Friday they could get scope to 3rd part of duodenum and all looked clear apart from blood and Mucus. He's bloods showed high inflammation somewhere but not sure where, he has ulcers in his mouth and still D at the moment
So my question is can an Endoscopy show clear but Crohns still be the cause? Gastro specialist wants to do laparotomy in a few weeks.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated. :sign0085:
Hope all is going well with this. I had a 'pill cam' 2 two weeks ago and discovered inflammation in upper intestine: wore a chest halter for 8 hours as the camera moved thru the intestines. You pass the small pill cam and wasn't a problem
 
I've read that Celiac's can cause all sorts of different symptoms in people. I imagine that if you keep eating gluten and you don't know your Celiac, it may cause inflamation and may lead to ulcers, but I don't claim to be a doctor. It's just something you may want to get tested for if you have UC or Crohn's. I've also read that a lot of people try gluten free diets even after they've been diagnosed with these diseases and it provides some relief. In my case, my sibling has it so I figured it may be something I want to look into. Went to the gastro today and have a gluten test set up in two weeks. I can't wait to get off this gluten free diet and eat pizza, bread and pasta. I'll let you know my results. I hope you find some kind of relief or diagnoses for you son Robertsmorcom, I have a year and a half year old boy and I can imagine what your going through. Stay positive!
 
I understand that with the young'uns, they use an endoscopic instrument (smaller) to perform the colonoscopy. They did that with our son too, a scope from both ends...

What I don't get is where the blood and mucous is coming from if the GI tract is clear. It couldn't just be from the mouth ulcers--or could it? And then, it couldn't come from outside the GI tract--or could it? So I don't understand why the laparotomy. However, I am really curious about results, which of course I hope are the best possible for your wee one, Robertsmorcom.

Troy
Father of Isaac, dx UC in 10/2011 at 29 months old
Read details here: http://ibdinourhome.blogspot.com
 
ok I'm just getting used to the medical terms!.....GI tract is what they see with Endescope?....the main bowel they cant this is why they are thinking laparotomy??...so can the blood mucus be coming from there?? and could it still be Crohns if biopsys clear (told today they are!)? his sinus's were bad when a baby but now just very rattly in the throat/chest area when having an 'episode' of bloody D and tummy pains.
I'm not saying he has Crohns or even trying to convince myself....but after 2 1/2 years I KNOW somethings not right and this so far is the closest to his symptoms. Gastro Speciliast is currently 'chatting' with surgeons and others about maybe barium???
thank you all again
 
oh question for troydanielbecker.....how was your LO deffinately diagnosed?? was it by first scopes??
Blood results also showed high level of inflammation cant remember if CPR or CRP but his was in late 40's and think i'm right in saying should be around 8-10???
 
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AZMOM

Moderator
robertsmorcom - I know your question was for Troydanielbecker but thought I'd just share our experience. The pediatric GI that did Claire's scopes said after the scopes, he was confident of the diagnosis and started treating her. But then he did verify for us that the diagnosis was confirmed by biopsy. She also had abnormal blood work that showed systemic inflammation.

I guess I"m saying that for us, it was the combination of all that.

We'll be thinking of you and your little one. Keep us posted!!
 
The GI (gastro-intestinal) tract is the tube which connects your mouth to your anus. Except for the area in the back of your throat and also the pathway to your lungs, it's a closed tube system (except at the level of absorption). This means nothing that goes in the tube gets out, unless it's broken down into its nutrients that can be absorbed into the blood by the intestinal walls. Except with damaged intestines, either from a deterioration due to Crohn's, or being poked by something like a chicken bone--in this case stuff in our GI tract can leak out.

A laparotomy, in my understanding, cuts into the abdominal cavity to inspect the area inside the body but outside of the GI tract (excuse my clinical description--I know it's graphic when we attach the procedure to our young loved ones). I don't understand how inflammation there can cause GI symptoms since the GI tract looked fine. And as far as I understand, if anything in the abdominal cavity were affecting the GI tract, it should have been caught by the scopes he already had.

I have a lot to learn about everything, but it sounds to me like your son's inflammation is more like in his lungs, sinuses, or from the mouth ulcers, and the inflammation there is causing the high CRP results and presumably high sed rates. And if he has a lot of blood in his system that will cause the diarrhea and IBD symptoms. However, like I said, I have a lot to learn about everything.

To answer your questions about Isaac, we strongly suspected UC when the chronic diarrhea turned into blood and mucous. And it was bright red blood so we suspected his colon to be inflamed instead of higher up in his guts. And he didn't seem to have an apparent absorption problem (we was healthy and robust instead of malnourished). His sed rates were high which told us there was an inflammation. His infectious tests all came back negative, which ruled out parasites, c diff, and so on. In fact, I wanted to forego the colonoscopy and just assume he had UC and treat accordingly, but our doctor wanted to see for sure and get biopsies (It could have actually been any number of special types of colitis). Then he got a look and gave the diagnosis. In our case, the endoscopy from the top showed he was fine down to his colon. From the bottom up showed that his whole colon was affected and inflamed. Then the diagnosis was official and he got going on UC meds.

Check out our blog for more details!

Troy
Father of Isaac, dx UC in 10/2011 at 29 months old
Read details here: http://ibdinourhome.blogspot.com
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
If a scope hasn't reached the affected area then the biopsies will be normal. A significant area of small bowel can't be reached by scopes.

The inflammatory marker is CRP and a normal reading is <6 or <10 depending on which lab does the test, I don't know why reference ranges vary.

Just curious but with all the mucous and upper respiratory involvement have they ever tossed Cystic Fibrosis into the mix as a possible cause?

Dusty. :hug:
 
DustyKat I have been told by someone I know very distantly who has Crohns that biopsies can be negative as you said if they cant see all of the small bowel this is why I am still swaying in this direction!
I had call from GI specialist today and they want to get him in ASAP next week for barium and in 2 weeks for Laparotomy as they are concerned about the ulcers, knee pains and bloody D which he still has...so they must be thinking somethings going on. Cystic fibrosis hasnt been mentioned but they have 3 things in mind Meckles diverticulum, bowel insusseption or Crohns but they are not convinced Crohns because of negative Biopsies.....it is such a long road at the moment I hope it's not this awful disease that all on here have but on the other hand I need an answer to be able to help him :(
Thankyou troydanielbecker to your comments have helped me understand the medical world a little bit more!
will keep you updated
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
The ulcers and knee pains certainly fit with EIM's (Extra Intestinal Manifestations) that many people suffer with when flaring with Crohns.

Do you keep a diary of symptoms. Living with this sort of thing day in and day out can make it difficult to keep an accurate time frame of what is going on, it's not hard to overlook things. Here is a link to one that may help out in putting the puzzle together...........

http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/Diary-Inclusions

Good luck to you and your little guy!

Take care hun, :hug:
Dusty
 
If a scope hasn't reached the affected area then the biopsies will be normal. A significant area of small bowel can't be reached by scopes.

The inflammatory marker is CRP and a normal reading is <6 or <10 depending on which lab does the test, I don't know why reference ranges vary.

Just curious but with all the mucous and upper respiratory involvement have they ever tossed Cystic Fibrosis into the mix as a possible cause?

Dusty. :hug:
Can they use a 'pill camera' to move thru the intestines to locate inflammed areas? Maybe they can't use with younger.
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
I am pretty sure that the pill cam is only suitable for ages 10 up. With a queried intussusception I doubt it would be suitable anyway.

Dusty. :)
 
Can they use a 'pill camera' to move thru the intestines to locate inflammed areas? Maybe they can't use with younger.
osage I live in UK and dont think they do that here on the NHS service????? have heard about this b4 and think would be good over here..thanks
 
osage I live in UK and dont think they do that here on the NHS service????? have heard about this b4 and think would be good over here..thanks
It could be 3-4 years available is all. Swallow pill...you were a halter that for 8 hours and 'pix' are sent to the device ever 2 seconds. Amazing.
 
The ulcers and knee pains certainly fit with EIM's (Extra Intestinal Manifestations) that many people suffer with when flaring with Crohns.

Do you keep a diary of symptoms. Living with this sort of thing day in and day out can make it difficult to keep an accurate time frame of what is going on, it's not hard to overlook things. Here is a link to one that may help out in putting the puzzle together...........

http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/Diary-Inclusions

Good luck to you and your little guy!

Take care hun, :hug:
Dusty
I started to keep diary after last hospital admission October 2010...well if I could up load the pages for you to see..two weeks at a time of pooping 10+ times a day with blood the list goes on then few weeks of couple times a day then cycle starts again...I stopped doing it when we finally seen specialist! think will have a look at your link and start again. thank you so much for your time
 
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