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I feel gutted!

S had his colonoscopy and it shows his crohn's has now spead to colon and large intestine. Now the doctor is talking Remi! How in the world did we get here so quickly?? I am shocked and beyond words. My heart seems to break a little more each day.

Immediate plan is to start Rowasa enemas tonight to try and calm the colon area. He took biopsies of the colon and large intestine and wants to make sure nothing viral is going on there. Then he will call and we will discuss next steps.

Any pointers on giving the enemas?

Anyone have kids on Remi?
 

Tesscorm

Moderator
Staff member
Oh Shelley, I'm so sorry. I remember everything seemed surreal when Stephen was diagnosed. :( Not sure if I can express exactly what I want to say but, just give yourself time to accept the heartbreak, allow yourself to cry if you need and believe that you are strong enough to deal with this and that Stefan will come through this. I don't have specific links for you but know that I've read of many people here who have been successful in attaining remission with Remicade.

I have no experience with enemas to help you. As for remicade, I mentioned to you before that my friend's daughter started on it in the fall and she is doing really well, a complete turnaround from where she was before the remi. She's had no side effects and no problems with the infusions.

Thinking of you!!! :ghug:
 
Aw, Shelley, we saw that coming, the more extensive involvement...so sorry. That may explain why he isn't gaining a ton on the EN...crap. :frown:

What about the naltrexone? Do you think it's worth trying before going to stronger drugs? With bleeding, I'd want it stopped NOW. But I'd always wonder what if naltrexone would work...more gray areas...just like Violet who makes no sense and keeps my brain in a state of what if we tried...
I know just how it feels. And it consumes one's entire thought process.
 
So sorry to hear that. I am feeling the same! Andrew went from a bit of tummy pain every now and then, to this peri-anal abcess and fistula with a really long recovery. My heart breaks too!
I dont' have any experience with any drugs yet. Good luck, hope it all goes smoothly!
 
Sorry to hear it's so bad. <hug>

While it lasted, Remicade made an amazing difference for Alex. The side effects are scary to consider, I just focused on treating now. And each dose I worried about an allergic reaction, which never happened. Whatever route you start, good luck!
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
Oh Shelley...:hug:...I am so sorry to hear this. :(

We haven't been down the Remi path and we have never had to use enemas. The one tip I can give you about the enema is to ensure that S is lying on his left side when you give it. This is due to lie of the descending colon.

Good luck hun. Sending loads of luck and healing thoughts your way!

Dusty. xxx
 
I am sorry to hear that it is spreading :(
We did foam enemas...super easy, although they didn't help much.
We also did Remi...no reaction or side effects, but we developed antibodies. The dosing schedule, although it is an infusion, is nice (what *other* drug do you only have to give every 6-8 weeks after initial dosing :))
Best wishes, SHelley, and (((HUGS)))
 
Shelly, so sorry to hear it has spread. (((Hugs)))

No experience with remicade. Did read this in the research section this week. Only sharing info that I might want to see as I tried to make decisions for my guy. This disease is heartwrenching.

http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=35293

Crohn's Disease Outcomes Improved By Early Introduction Of Biologic Therapy
19 Apr 2012

A large-scale study of medical claims data shows that introducing sophisticated biologic therapies early in the course of treatment for Crohn's disease improves response to medication and reduces the need for surgery.

There is no known cure for Crohn's disease, and traditional treatment is focused on a "step-up" strategy of managing inflammatory symptoms, starting with simpler and less costly oral medications such as aminosalicylates (5-ASAs) and corticosteroids, and escalating through a series of steps to more expensive biological therapies that target specific proteins in the immune system's inflammatory response.

David Rubin, MD, associate professor of medicine and co-director of the University of Chicago Medicine's Inflammatory Bowel Disease Center, studied a newer "top-down" strategy that reverses this order of treatment. He found that patients treated with biologic therapies earlier were significantly less likely to need steroids, lose response to their biologic therapy, and require surgery related to their Crohn's disease. "We're essentially reversing the management strategy in Crohn's disease," Rubin said.

He emphasized that the medications often used first for patients with Crohn's are also the least effective and carry risks for side effects. "We've long discussed and debated that 5-ASAs don't work in the majority of Crohn's patients, and certainly don't change any outcomes," he said. "Steroids are ineffective long-term and are also dangerous because they have significant side effects such as infections."

Crohn's is a disorder in which the body's immune system appears to have lost the ability to regulate itself and becomes overactive, causing progressive damage to the bowel structure and function. Patients often need bowel surgery to repair this damage. Researchers have made great progress finding genetic and environmental contributors to Crohn's disease, but the actual cause is unknown.

Rubin said that physicians have questioned the effectiveness of the step-up strategy because patients experience little relief while being treated with medications before they receive the biological therapies. During that time, they suffer from active disease, have low rates of remission and often appear to lose response to the biological therapies.

In recent years a treatment strategy that starts with the targeted biologic therapy as a first option has been explored in controlled clinical trials. The encouraging results suggested that such an approach results in higher remission rates. However, it was not clear whether this top-down approach would translate to the general population of patients with Crohn's disease, or whether such an approach would maintain the response to biologic therapy and decrease the need for surgery.

The Food and Drug Administration approved the first targeted biologic therapy for Crohn's disease in 1998 and the second two in 2007 and 2008. Rubin said physicians are hesitant to prescribe them earlier because they are expensive, must be administered through injections instead of pills and are typically saved until last,. "Patients and doctors are nervous about immune suppressive therapies. The perception in the current treatment algorithm is that the therapies saved for last must also be the most dangerous," he said. "But that's the wrong thinking, and by delaying their prescription it may be a self-fulfilling prophecy because by then patients have suffered more damage to their bowels and are less likely to respond favorably."

In the study, published in the journal Inflammatory Bowel Diseases, Rubin and his colleagues analyzed health insurance claims from a database that includes records from more than 94 commercial health plans throughout the United States. Patients eligible for the study had to be enrolled in the same health plan continuously for at least six months before the first claim related to Crohn's and stay enrolled for at least 12 months after the first claim for anti-TNF treatments.

Rubin then separated these patients into three groups: those who followed the traditional step-up therapy starting with 5-ASAs or corticosteroids before anti-TNF treatment, those who had immunosuppressive therapy (but not 5-ASAs) before anti-TNF treatment, and those who started anti-TNF treatment within 30 days of their first prescription for Crohn's disease.

In general, the group that started anti-TNF treatment early had significantly lower rates of continuous steroid use to treat flare-ups than the other groups, lower rates of escalation of dosage for their medications and needed fewer surgeries related to Crohn's disease. "This is the first time we did a large assessment of the top-down, early-TNF strategy using claims databases," Rubin said. "It gave us lots of detail and lots of information, much larger than with a controlled trial. We could look at hundreds of thousands of patients in order to get a big picture of how effective these approaches are in treating Crohn's. It's also the first time we were able to examine surgical outcomes associated with this strategy."

"Having a new class of therapies and having a culture change in GI takes a lot of discussions," he said. "This paper contributes to the discussion about how important this kind of treatment is because it changes the outcomes for people suffering from Crohn's disease."
 
Location
Canada
ARGH!!! I just lost my whole post that I was typing in here and now I have to leave. I will retype it later today. I am thinking of you guys and hoping the Rowasa is working wonders. I think we might be living parallel lives...
 
Thanks for the words of encourgament! The enema was really a piece of cake. No pain or anything but I guess for a kid who has had 2 peri-anal abscesses, an enema is a walk in the park. My son is my hero! These kids of ours are going to become wonderful, resilient, caring adults!

I have to brag on his doctor again. We might have to start referring to him as The Saint II. He texts me at 7pm on a Saturday night and says, "Just thinking of S. How's he doing today?" I replied back and then he says, "Hang in there. We are going to get him better." How awesome is that!! He is married with a young family himself and he's thinking about my kid? I really believe my child could not be in better hands and that's a wonderful thing when you're dealing with such an unpredictable disease.
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
Woohoo!!! So fab to hear on both counts Shelley!!!

Your son certainly is a hero :award2: and your doc, well I think I might be in love! :wub: Sorry Dex, too bad, so sad for you!

:mademyday:
Dusty. xxx
 
OMG Shelley, a Saint for sure, LOVE it...and he is down with EN and naltrexone...prob a a certain "type", i.e., those whose ego does not exceed their ability, who become these type of docs, who actually DO think about the kids and DO care, and are willing to try any and all treatments instead of just the well known ones. :medal1:
The best docs I have known professionally in my own career were the least egotistical. They are so certain of their awesomeness, they don't need to constantly prove it. :eek:
There's a famous pedi surgeon in NYC who always credits God whenever parents try to thank him...he just shakes his head and points upward...:heart:
 
Location
Canada
Hey Shelley,

I am so sorry that the colonoscopy brought bad news. We were also given the Remi talk last week. It is hard to believe that we are possibly at that point already. Apparently most of the patients on Remi at our GI clinic (at a large children's hospital) are also on Imuran. The thought of the two drugs together did my head in! I was not prepared for that.

We are also starting a 5-ASA drug, pentasa, in the hopes that will help.

I am still going to wait a bit for the Imuran to kick in but I feel like we are getting closer and closer to having to make a change.

Your GI sounds awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Awww, T, really? Is S on the max dosage for imuran? Would it be worth trying 6mp? It's so hard when you've invested so much time and effort into EN, drugs, bloodwork, etc. and you don't see the needed improvement. Feels like one disappointment after another doesn't it! Our day will come....I just know one day our boys will be in remission and we will celebrate. Maybe we will meet up at Disney and do it up right :). But for now we will just take it one day at a time. (((hugs)))
 
Location
Canada
Shelley how is your son coping with all this? My son became a bit down and depressed about it all for the first time this week. It was soooooo hard to watch. At one point he told me that everyday was a strain. Made me so sad. :yfrown:

He seems perkier today. Went out fishing on a friend's boat today which made his day! The salmon eluded us but S did get to drive the boat!
 
Friday morning S completely broke down crying right before we left for his colonoscopy saying he was so hungry. The saddness in his eyes about killed me. Once it was over he perked up and was fine. I think a lot of it was nerves and extra hungry from the clean out process.

He was super excited about the sleepover birthday party tonight. All his best buddies are there and he will have a ball. So thankful that he feels well enough to go and he so needs some normalcy after Friday.

"Every day a strain", Oh Lordy that breaks my heart. So NOT fair. I'm glad he got out today and how exciting to drive the boat.

I do worry that the longer this goes on and if he doesn't get better quickly that we will have to contend with depression issues. Heck, I can't tell you how many anxiety pills I've eaten this past week!
 

Tesscorm

Moderator
Staff member
Shelley - I'm glad the enema is going well!! And, fantastic about your doctor! That must be so reassuring!! I so hope Stephen's new GI is like that! I'm a bit nervous about the switch - who knows what we'll get :eek: but could be another 'Saint' :) !

Twiggy & Shelley - glad both your boys had the opportunity to forget about the crohns for a while fishing and at the birthday party! So unfair that at their ages they have to worry about any of this! :ymad:

Just re the remicade - saw my friend today who's daughter is on remicade. She started in the fall; just before starting the remicade, she was at 58 lbs, is now 80 lbs! She did six weeks of EN over the summer to build up her strength as they anticipated surgery, she improved a bit, avoided surgery and commenced Remicade. Since then, absolutely no more symptoms or side effects, infusions are every 8 weeks and no issues with the infusions either! :)
 
Tess,

I can only imagine the nerves of having to switch doctors!! Do you have lots to pick from in your area? Have you been able to get any recommendations? Crossing my fingers that the transition is smooth!!

That's great news about your friend's daughter! Love hearing the success stories!
 

Tesscorm

Moderator
Staff member
I have a recommendation 'of sorts' from the children's hospital of the adult hospital (Mt. Sinai) with which they are affiliated. Both have large, extensive IBD clinics and have apparently worked together on studies, conferences, etc. The vast majority of patients from our current clinic are transferred to Mt. Sinai (unless a specific request is made for another GI).

Coincidentally, Mt. Sinai was where Stephen was born and I chose that hospital because of their reputation and close affiliation (location- and otherwise) with the children's hospital.

No reason to believe their expertise, resources, etc. will be lacking at all :) May even have online access to records (!!), just hope the GI is 'personable'. Stephen's current GI is very easy to speak with and Stephen's very comfortable with him.

I've read so many stories here where the GI has shrugged off concerns, etc. ... :eek: Then, again, there have been so many stories of GIs going above and beyond expectations! :)
 
Mom2oneboy,

I hope things turn around for you very soon but if you do end up having to go on to Remicade, I thought I should a good news story...

My son started Remicade in February and is now starting to get back to normal after a yearlong struggle with severe symptoms and a recent 5 month absence from school.

Remicade made a huge difference for us...HUGE...after about 8 weeks into treatment, he started to feel well again, and it is now giving back to him his own quality of life, that he so patiently had to put aside at 12 yrs old.

Its early I know but, over the last 3 weeks he has started to emerge again as a carefree, fun-loving, energetic and sometimes mischievous adolescent, no more sad eyes....

The decision to go on these meds is not easy, everyone reacts differently. But in hindsight, for our situation, if I knew I could have given my son back his quality of life sooner, and seen his precious smile (everyday) sooner, I would have done so earlier.
 

Kat

Location
Michigan
We have experience with Remicade and it really has been a miracle drug for out daughter. She was diagonosed at 14 years old and has been on Remicade for over a year now. It was amazing the difference we seen in her when we first started. SHe has no side effects. She is on the lowest dose but her infusions are every 6 weeks instead of the typical 8 weeks. We started seeing minor symptoms at the 6-7 week mark, thus the reason to shorten her duration. She is definately back to being a happy healthy teenager - as happy as teenagers can be" ;)" Nothing stops her and she feels great! Doing great in High School and living her dream of playing soccer! Good Luck!
 

crohnsinct

Well-known member
Sorry I had to duck out for awhile. My 17 year old's friend took his life and it was very hard for our whole family as her sisters knew him well also. Then O broke some bones. Some would like to blame the Crohns and/or Remicade/Prednisone but really she has only been on them 3 months and she really is a clutz!

Anyway, O was put on Remicade in the hospital the day after diagnosis. She has had no side effects and is doing very well. She was also on Pred (still is at 1 ml every other day). It was amazing to see her d and stomach pain calm down and to have my cheerful energetic girl back. Oh and as for the risks of getting ill...she is t he healthiest person in the house. She has survived the whole family getting a stomach bug, my flu and her dad's respiratory infection with nothing touching her! She has gained 11 pounds but leveled off and some bleeding continued. We also went back to find out the Crohn's spread for her also to her stomach and rectum (previously just colon). Doc says she is 90% there and while he mentioned added azathioprine he wants to first try tightening up the schedule so we are going for 6 weeks. If that doesn't work increase dosage. Last resort add aza.

I think the scary thing about Remi is the risks but someone here (Dusty?) linked to a webinar that discusses absolute risks. Regular risk of getting that scary cancer something like 1 in 10,000. Remi doubles it but really that translates to just 2 in 10,000 and adding Aza triples it but again 6 in 10,000. I think I have posted before risk of dying in a car accident 1 in 250 and drowning 1 in 1,000. So I ok'd Remicade and so far no regrets.

I will pray for you and your son as you face these decisions and pray that he feels better soon.
 

crohnsinct

Well-known member
Oh forgot to mention (although I think I may have before)..FWIW our doc says he is top down because the sooner you can get the kids into remission the less likely they are to require surgery later in life. I have since read that a few times elsewhere.

Oh and I am off to O's first track meet since dx in February...she can run with broken hand but swimming is tough:( GO O!
 

Tesscorm

Moderator
Staff member
I am so very sorry to hear about O's friend! How tragic! Can't imagine how difficult it must be for your daughters, family to come to terms with that. :(

Am glad she's feeling better though! Hope the track meet goes well !
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
Oh my, I am so sorry to hear your sad news. What a difficult time for the family involved and all the young people that were friends with him. Such a tragedy. :(

Goodness me, O has had her own trials and tribulations but fab to hear that all is going well! YAY! Good luck with the track meet!

Dusty. xxx
 

crohnsinct

Well-known member
Hmm yeah...don't mean to hijack the thread but O had an awful day yesterday. Ran the one mile slow and looked awful but hey she ran it so I was happy. Sat with me in the cold and rain. Right as they called her event said she had to go to bathroom which was a porta potty. We went...long line. She said never mind I will wait. I was crazy mama bear and asked all the people if she could jump the line as her event was coming up. They all agreed...no toilet paper. She says again that she will wait. I ran to car to get tissues and by the time I get back she says never mind it passed. Final call for her event and she turns and gives me THAT look. I ran like the wind with my tissues in hand (not a pretty picture). We go in and ugh I was totally the unprepared Crohns mom. Wiped down the seat with tissues (note to self carry santitary wipes) and she has a bad attack with lots of blood. She runs out and onto the track just in time for her 400M race. Looked bad but what a trooper. She was disappointed but (and I know I could only say this here) I said to her in the car "are you kidding me what girl is bleeding out her butt one minute and running a race the next...you totally rocked!". She was exhausted and didn't eat much for dinner. DH and I thought back and she has been pretty tired lately and also low appetite. Went for infusion today and she has lost weight. They took more blood than usual and being so new not sure what they were checking for. She is pretty discouraged at this point. I am hoping that tomorrow the Remicade will kick in and do it's thing. She just wants her nice big doses of Prednisone back.
 
Location
Canada
After all that she still ran the race!!! What amazing perseverance. With gumption like that she is going to go places in this world!!! :medal1:
 

crohnsinct

Well-known member
I know right! I am still traumatized by the porta potty. There was enough fecal matter in there to keep Julie's Saint happy for years. OK confession time, I did happen to notice one abnormal poop deposited prior to Olivia. I think I need help...now I am analyzing other people's poop:yfaint:
 
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