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The vaccination system and why it is broken in the USA

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Posting this not to deter anyone from getting vaccination but to inform parents of the broken system we current have in the USA.

Please share!

P.S. Sorry I cannot help but remember that Rowans UC started just weeks after youngest was shedding her MMR vaccinations. That was Rowan first mystery fever.



http://youtu.be/Q-0i5Xs9sjM
 
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DustyKat

Super Moderator
I understand where you are coming from Mary. :ghug:

I watched the youtube piece a couple of weeks ago and personally I do not subscribe to their point of view. After much reading and research I do believe some of the information contained within the piece is misleading, particularly that the actual ruling was MMR caused the lads Encephalitis not Autism.

Of course this is my opinion only and we each must draw our own conclusions.

Dusty. xxx
 
And over half of the kids in the US suffer from chronic disease and disability? I suppose if they are including allergies/asthma....but that risk seems 100% worth it for our family.
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
I hear you Farmwife :ghug: and I too have seen both sides of the story, although perhaps more of one than the other...

I worked for some time is paediatric infectious diseases and my mum also contracted Polio as a child.

Does MMR cause Autism? I don't know, I can only draw my own conclusions from my own research. Dr. Wakefield appears to be pretty much discredited by now but depending on which side of the fence you sit either side can pull up arguments for their own beliefs. For those that believe it does, they will be plagued by the fact that there isn't strong scientific evidence for their claims. For those that that believe there is no link, they will be plagued by claims of big pharma and government manipulation.

As to myself, I primarily draw on what I have and seen over the years.

My own children developed Crohn's independent of a vaccination regime lurking in the background so in our case it is another of the causes that I can strike off an ever growing list of what I may or may not have done but if the shoe was on the other foot and they had developed it as much younger children I would be foolish to say that it wouldn't have been upper most in my thoughts.

Dusty. xxx
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Any cause needs to be scientifically proven regardless of the issue.
If its a true cause and effect it will happen the same way time and again.
YouTube is not the place to get ANY hypothesis or theories .

Regardless of which side of the fence you are on.


Vaccinations had nothing to do with when my son got sick.
 

Catherine

Moderator
I have also seen both sides

My children's uncle their father's brother was a normal health toddler his mother remembers him as making all the early minestrone earlier than his siblings. When he was about 3 he got one of those illness we now give a vaccination for it caused an infection in his brain. He lives in a home and has a mental age of 2.

Autism or Aspergers (they have remove this dx and they are now being dx with high functioning autism) runs in my family. The first case appeared prior to the MMR vaccinations.

I don't believe vaccinations caused either my daughter Crohn's disease or my other daughter Aspergers.
 
I feel badly for those families whose children have autism or other chronic conditions. That does not mean that I believe that vaccines caused those conditions.

There are SO many other possible explanations it is a little scary. Everything from the left over medications in our drinking water to pollutants in the air affecting women during pregnancy. I've even read of some concerns about the use of ultrasound during pregnancy.

I agree with MLP. If there is a true cause and effect relationship it should occur repeatedly in a way that can be authenticated without twisting the data into a knot. Thalidamide comes to mind here.

I think the danger to our children of not immunizing them coupled with the risk of losing herd immunity far outweighs the questionable "proof" provided by anti-vaccination advocates.

It's not my purpose to offend anyone. I am just stating the situation as I see it.
 
Let me show the other side of the coin.

The world before and after vaccinations.

Going to quote from my immunology book.

BEFORE and AFTER vaccines.

-Diphtheria

before 206,930 in 1921

after 0 in 2004

-Measles

894,134 in 1941

37 in 2004

-Mumps

152,209 in 1968

236 in 2004

-Pertussis

265,269 in 1934

0 in 2004

-Polio

21,269 in 1952

0 in 2004

-Rubella

57,686 in 1969

12 in 2004

etc
 
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

I am going to have both of my kids check to see if they are still immune if so I am not repeating the MMR vaccination.

My youngest is the same age Rowan was when diagnosed and I just can't give it to her. (Luckily she had her first dose already.)

I understand all of your fears mine are the same. I never said vaccinations were wrong or that I that I didn't believe they were needed but I think it is just screwed up that everyone seems to think everyone can get them without having some serious things occur. We are not all made up equally so I don't think that they can ever say everything is good for you. Just like Livana can have lactose but Rowan cannot. I don't think it is black or white. Though it might be considered good for the herd that she is vaccinated, I say screw the herd. I don't care about everyone else I care about my family. I am sick and tired of being a statistic for the greater good of everyone else.

Me personally I watched it happen. I injecting my kid with the MMR vaccination that is supposed to induce a immune system response and she had a 104 fever for 3 days and stopped talking completely for 4 months. I had the state out to check her hearing because I was worried about Autism. She seemed ok finally 6 months later. Then a year later my youngest gets her MMR vaccination and while shedding it Rowan comes down with what appears to be "Fifths Disease" which just so happens to look just like Rubella. 5 days of 104 fevers again covered in hives all over her face and trunk. I don't believe in coincidences. You all can say what you want but I lived it. She was diagnosed with UC a month later from there on out she was never EVER controllable with medications after that she just bled and bled 6 blood transfusions and 6 major surgeries later. I am by no means saying this is the case for all of Autism and IBD but I think it is preposterous to not see any connection. Let alone for me to say ok let's do it again now that she is 5. F that! :eek: Quite possibly there is another kind of Autism which is of an auto-immune nature, and an IBD that is untreatable because they are treating the symptom not the cause. Not to mention now Rowan would be getting it and shedding it and my youngest is the exact age Rowan was when she was diagnosed with UC. Oh heck no.

I think they should always be trying to improve on them. Rather than just ramping up for more for future generations by the time my kids have kids (which Rowan cannot bc of this god forsaken disease might I add) they will have doubled... Mark my words.

I understand how you all feel... My kids been on huge immunosuppressants as well and a kid walking around unvaccinated is some scary stuff, Rowan cannot even get hers up to date right now because she has had too many surgeries recently so yes she is in school and hasn't even had the flu shot yet. End rant!
 
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The vaccination link to the mmr jab is pretty well discredited but understandably people got frightened for there children.the lowered uptake of mmr lowered herd immunity last winter in Wales and caused a big outbreak of rubella and whooping cough both of which are very serious in children,if you are worried speak to your doctor,health worker and take there advice
 
Yes I did that before her pediatrician told me to wait until she was going to school. I did and then she got sick shortly afterwards. I am going to go with my gut bc that has never lied to me.

Yes Wakefield situation was defiantly a witch hunt. So much so no one would ever question a vaccination again. Lucky for the distributors. Sorry forever a skeptic.

I guess if most have gone through my situation you all would understand it better. It is ok though I know most people won't ever understand and I am ok with that.
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
There is no doubt that the immunisation debate can be very polarising indeed and why wouldn't it be when it involves those that are that are dearer to us than life itself.

We all make decisions based on our own beliefs, research, experiences and a myriad of other things. My choice to vaccinate is mine and mine alone just as yours not you is yours and yours alone Mary. No explanations are needed, you must do what is right for you and your family.

Dusty. :heart:
 
I'm not sure where I fall in the immunization camp. When the kids were babies, I just did what the pediatrician told me until chicken pox. With DS I waited on that one just because it was at the peak of the autism discussion, so like many, I was a little more cautious.

What I find curious, alarming, interesting... he recently tested negative for Hep B antibodies. Up until this test as a prelim for Remicade, we thought all was well. It makes me wonder how many vaccines fade away or never work in the first place? And unless you're a Crohn's kid about to start Remi, you're never tested.

And now that DS can't have certain vaccines and we have to rely on the herd in some cases I find this whole thing frustrating. Last year the chicken pox hit our elementary school pretty hard. You can't hide in a small town so we all knew it was the local chiropractor's family. They have six kids, none of whom had been up immunized, all of whom came down with the pox. The family said it was just a rash and kept sending all six to school. I have completely stupid and irresponsible people in my herd... and that really scares me.

But what can you do? Just make the best, most educated decisions for your family and hope for the best.
 
I hear you Farmwife :ghug: and I too have seen both sides of the story, although perhaps more of one than the other...


I better reply back to this so y'all don't think Dusty is insane.:rof:

I erased my comment because of the potential debate that surrounds this issue.
(I didn't think anyone saw it.:kiss:)


My nephew has autism. His mom said after his dx, He was never the same after his vaccines. She still gets all the kids vaccinated.
My Grandma walks with a limp from her childhood Polo, that killed the girl that sat in her school seat the week before. This was before the vaccine was available.


I do not get my kids vaccinated. They've never had one shot their whole life...so far. So thinking vaccines alone cause these evil disease is not true. I believe it's one of many reasons.
Grace had c diff...never the same again.
So how Mary feels about MMR, I feel about c diff.
Our choice is based for medical reasons and that alone.
I do not get into the "background" at all.

They will get some vaccines but not all between the ages of 5-6.
Again the is for medical reasons.

All our doctors know this and yes some debate.
I had one tell me that I'm one of the few that know medical reasons for my convictions and not just go on conspiracy theories (which doesn't mean those theories are not well founded).

What gets me going is when people saw I'm endangering my kids.
I love my kids just as much if not more then most (we should all feel this way).
I will do what' I think is best for mine, like you want to do for yours.


Again I'm not against vaccines.
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Here is the thing when you post about vaccinations
Either for or against and site ancidotal stories
JOE public who reads said posts now believes side xyz
Since everything on the Internet must be true beyond a shadow of a doubt .
This can do more harm than good for those that may not take the time
To review or research their particular child's situation .

There in lies the problem.

It just further justifies which every side you are on without
Requiring the burden of proof.


So please remember just because something is posted
Doesn't necessarily make it true.


I am not saying for one particular child problem x was or was not caused by y.
I am saying we all need to be careful about blanket statements
That x causes y for the a% of the general population.
 
I have completely stupid and irresponsible people in my herd... and that really scares me.
This first part of this sentence made me giggle, but yeah that makes me fearful too!!
 
Agree, MLP. This is one topic that confuses and frustrates me to no end. I never know who or what to believe and it makes it difficult to make big decisions.
 

David

Co-Founder
Location
Naples, Florida
My wife and I have been doing a lot of research on this subject as we're expecting a little one in about 6 weeks now. Where we currently stand:

- We will not get any vaccinations for diseases that do not have high fatality rates, cause disability, or can be reasonably avoided through proper sanitation/safe lifestyle choices, and a strong immune system. For example, we will not get the Heps, MMR, or chicken pox vaccine. We're on the fence with others and still researching.

- We will not be getting our child vaccines while he is under the age of 2. He will get them as he gets older.

- He WILL get some vaccines as some very dangerous diseases are making a comeback due to the lack of vaccinations out there.
 
I've always felt the choice to not vaccinate in first world countries is a fairly safe bet, whether for philosophical, religious or medical reasons. Due to the herd factor, those that choose not to vaccinate will be protected by that herd. So as long as the majority chooses to vaccinate those who don't will be provided protection, what an odd juxtaposition of ideals.
 
I see it this way,
there are risks for immunizations. I think any Dr would agree with that statement. I think it is reasonably possible that auto immune disorders, which require some sort of triggering event, COULD be activated by an immunization. Science has yet to be able to prove this, so I think it can be dangerous to jump to that conclusion. But it is a reasonable deduction.

There is solid medical evidence that millions and millions of people have been saved because of immunizations. I think what Dr.'s worry about it that because these diseases are no longer an epidemic people forget how truly horrible they were and they focus on the potential affects of being immunized. Even if there was a solid scientific link to autism or auto immune disorders and immunization as a whole, there are far more lives saved by immunizing than by not immunizing and potential side effects. Mehita raises a good point that we don't know how long someone truly remains immune, but Kiny's numbers don't lie. The bottom line is that deaths have ceased or been dramatically reduced, so immunizations are saving lives.

That being said, we all have to make our own decisions based on our own circumstances for our kids.
 
My understanding of vaccinations many do not last all your life but get children past the hump where ,rubella,whooping cough and others are not likely to have the devastating impact that can occur in early years and anything I have seen,read or printed discredits any link between Mmr and autism.doctor Google needs treated with caution.
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
Any vaccination comes with risks and for some that risk will unfortunately become a reality. :( Who in would want their child to be the statistic that says say...1% of children who receive this vaccination will suffer a severe side effect...no one. But, and there is always a but, if these infectious diseases are left to go unchecked then we return to the days of my parent's and before. Where every person in the street knew someone who died in an epidemic or was left with a life long disability. Where every child went to school week after week and each week there was one less child there. Death is no longer a normal part of life as it once was.

While ever the herd is immunised there is room for those who choose not to but that is no longer the case. We have cases like MMR in the nineties and the resulting significant down turn in immunisation in Britain only to have widespread epidemics occurring again. One factor that did arise out of this downturn in immunisation...autism rates did not fall. The issue now days is those that choose not to immunise is on the rise and so the herd is weakened and epidemics once again take hold.

No immunisation will provide 100% immunity for all, even without full immunity contracting the disease will result in a far milder and manageable case, and many do not last a lifetime but again it comes down to the herd. Diseases do not get the opportunity to get a foothold when most of the population are immunised against them. They remain in pockets and therefore isolated with little opportunity to cause the domino effect. Even if an infected person is not isolated and reaches larger groups of people...schools, offices, universities, public transport... it still has little opportunity to spread as the vast majority of people are immunised. This unravels though when the herd becomes weak and instead of an infected perhaps randomly coming into contact with 1 or 2 unvaccinated people it becomes 15 and so on.

The diseases are still out there lurking, waiting for the opportunity to pounce. We just don't see them like our parents and grandparents did because of immunisation.

Dusty. xxx
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
My wife and I have been doing a lot of research on this subject as we're expecting a little one in about 6 weeks now. Where we currently stand:

- We will not get any vaccinations for diseases that do not have high fatality rates, cause disability, or can be reasonably avoided through proper sanitation/safe lifestyle choices, and a strong immune system. For example, we will not get the Heps, MMR, or chicken pox vaccine. We're on the fence with others and still researching.

- We will not be getting our child vaccines while he is under the age of 2. He will get them as he gets older.

- He WILL get some vaccines as some very dangerous diseases are making a comeback due to the lack of vaccinations out there.
Getting close now David! :eek2:

Do I assume that the use of he means it is boy??? :lol:

Dusty. xxx
 
I have been thinking the same exact thing for the last 30 minutes, Axelfl3333!! Great expression of your view, thanks for that Dusty!
 
Sorry I got off point somewhere in here. My BIG point is if we are scared parents and avoid immunizations because of our fears of too many vaccines, mercury, and side effects. Why isn't there a choice any longer to get individual MMR. In my opinion if they (CDC) wants to control this from happening it would relieve my fear if I could get only what my kid needs. Rather than making me decide to immunize or not give me options.

Example: I get my kids checked (blood test) if they are still immune... Test results come back that she is immune from Measles and Rubella... So why am I forced to do a whole MMR vaccination if I want her to be safe from Mumps. I think it is total BS that we cannot get them in separate doses.

Don't get me wrong... I am getting her the MMR I just wish I didn't have to get all three if all three are not needed. I am just spreading out her vaccinations over a few months and only one shot at a time.
 
I can't believe I missed this post earlier. I have to agree with a lot of things said here. I have some major issues with the whole vaccination thing. I am not saying I don't believe in them. I think a lot of the issues with vaccines started when they started combining so many together. I think a baby's immune system cannot handle that overwhelming amount of germs at once. It seems there were fewer issues with vaccines when you were giving a straight measles vaccine, rubella vaccine etc.
Personally we have had some serious vaccine stuff happen in our family.
My second daughter developed an issue with her eye after her MMR vaccine. They eventually diagnosed it as ocular myasthenia gravis. We still don't know if this is accurate but at times her eye droops.
After that experience we decided to vaccinate our third child on a very slow vaccine schedule. He had his first vaccine at five months of age and then proceeded to have a febrile seizure from it. He ended up in the hospital for a week. That was the DTap.
Then myself when I went into the military I was forced to have the MMR vaccine because they told me my immunity was low. I had a very severe allergic reaction. I ended up with permanent fibromyalgia from it.
When I had my fifth child we decided to do even slower immunization. She had her first vaccine at age one.
So I have to agree with many of you and being wary and careful of the whole vaccination thing.
Does it cause autism? Well that is a whole other discussion although now there is some new studies and evidence linking autism to the use of pitocin during labor and that is a band wagon I could really jump on after having worked in labor and delivery for so many years.
 

rygon

Moderator
you can still get the single jabs, but as this costs more you have to pay privately (in the UK ).

Here's a list of jabs that do and do not contain mercury (although the ones that do it is still very little and im sure you will digest more from foods than whats in these)
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228

I really do not think anyone will knowingly make vaccines or any other drug that would cause life long problems, but medicine and immunisation is still relatively new, and we dont really understand everything we put in our bodies, and what its effect will be. I guess we can only do what we feel right based on current evidence
 
Mary you can still get single jabs.
Call your local heath dept. and or ask Rowan's GP to get some for you.

We are doing this for my kids.

If they say they can't......let me know!!!!!!
I know people..... that know people..... that know some more people.:ghug::eek::ghug:
 

crohnsinct

Well-known member
One thing to also consider is that we are making the immunization decision while looking at out perfectly healthy little one and never dreaming that they will contact any chronic illness and be on any medications with severe risks etc.

Chicken pox seems like no problem and something you may be willing to accept for your child. However, now you have a child with IBD on Remicade and Mtx and suddenly that chicken pox that you never vaccinated against is a lot worse than anything you ever could have imagined when they were younger. Yes, I know that immunization is no guarantee anyway but the fact that O got it gives me some comfort.

I think we all feel the same way about immunisations as we do the drugs we hate to put our kids on. We are scared of the risks but the risk of not doing so are so much more scary.

BTW - heard they are advising repeat whopping cough vaccine because they are finding it wears off completely after some time. Our ped is researching this for us.

Mehita: stupid herd...LMAO!
 
I've seen the u tube piece before and think it is designed to scare people. Dr Wakefield's research has been totally discredited and he has been struck off. For me I don't think the mmr causes autism and gave it to my children and would again, however I can fully understand why somebody wouldn't, but I think lots of people in Ireland anyway don't give it because of Wakefield and that's wrong. Lucy's crohns had presented itself before she got her mmr so I can't blame that, I believe her triggering event was the chicken pox, so I do think it is entirely possible that a vaccination that produces an immune response could be a trigger Lucy is five and has been on biologics since the beginning of the year, she started school in September and my biggest fear is that she now has daily contact with unvaccinated kids as I firmly believe this causes far more of a risk to her than the vaccine. Vaccines can be got separately in Ireland I think. It is an emotive debate but it is really each individual parents choice.
 
Yeah I really did some digging trying to get the MMR separated and they are no longer available.

I totally get where crohnsinct is coming from because that is my world hence why I give the shots to Rowan. Omg I would just die if she got something since the simple flu puts her in the hospital for dehydration. BUT (that is a very big but) my youngest whom never gets sick and is healthy... I think it might be worth it to take my chances over some of the side effects which IMO can be devastating. If I had to cut another colon out of another one of my children, you would have to be my pen pal because I for sure would be in prison or a straight jacket. Just saying! Granted I am getting vaccinations but very slowly and no live virus'. If one gets them in my house and the other doesn't what does that say about my herd. :eek2:

Can they just cure auto-immune diseases already! Come on! Sometimes I get frustrated with the whole thing. I think all the time why haven't they come up with something better for an Ostomate than sticking a bag on you belly. Like come on they can come up with a better design. We have artificial hearts for goodness sakes.

Sorry I digress!
 
Now I don't think the piece should be targeting just MMR they should have just stated vaccinations themselves. I think the whole system at large is corrupt! The MMR vaccination should be scheduled for when the child is in daycare or a daily scheduled public setting should be available in separate doses. Me personally I didn't do it until I felt I had to with Rowan. Then low an behold they told me just recently that it probably didn't even immunize her well, this is why they give it again at 5 because this is the time in which it is best given. I asked so the 5 year booster really can be the only shot, they responded yes, it is only needed once when given at 5. So we just jabbed her and she probably didn't get any immunization from the first one. Stupid. I don't know why this.

Now they want to change it again... From MMR to MMRV because parents are opting against Varicella vaccination. It is just a matter of years before the regular MMR isn't even provide... Mark my words! They are doing this because there are new immunizations on the horizon and they don't want parents to complain about giving too many vaccinations. They are ramping up for some big ones. Anthrax, MRSA, then C diff. Granted I know this is a good thing but scares the you know what out of me as well. :eek:

P.S. I never said anything about X causing Y. I just feel confused so much and worried just like I felt 2 years ago. Ya know.
 

Tesscorm

Moderator
Staff member
I gave my kids all the vaccines and probably would do it again. I see it similar to the crohns' meds - I worry all the time about Stephen on remicade and its possible risks but I'd worry more of the risks if he wasn't on remicade. :(

But, I am torn on this issue - we know that Stephen has a low immunity to mumps, so I am praying that the herd protects him. It scares me that he is coming into contact with so many people now at university and that there will be some who are from countries where regular vaccinations may not be done... :(

While I very much hope the herd is strong and well for Stephen's sake, I do also feel that there are very real reasons to not always vaccinate and each person's circumstances must be taken into consideration. Not exactly the same but... before Stephen went to Dominican, one doctor recommended doxycycline to minimize risk of malaria. His GI didn't feel malaria was a big risk but had no concerns if we chose to give him doxycycline. Once I did some research, I decided that the link between doxycycline and crohns was riskier than malaria and didn't feel the 'protection' was worth the risk. If Stephen didn't have crohns, I probably would've gone ahead with the malaria protection. So, I do think circumstances need to be considered... ie if other family members have reacted to vaccines, perhaps there is a genetic vulnerability?? Perhaps children should be a bit older, a bit stronger before beginning vaccinations?? I do wonder if a blanket schedule for everyone is the right way to vaccinate.

I also agree that vaccines should be separated... it would be very unlikely that anyone would come into contact with measles, mumps and rubella at the same time... perhaps throwing them all at our immune systems at the same time is simply not a good thing to do. Let it work on one thing at a time, especially when the immune system is young and still undeveloped in children. :(
 
I get exactly where your coming from. I just think some kids are predisposition for certain disease by their family genetics whether it be Crohns, UC, Autism, or cancer etc. Some people are at greater risk for cancer and some people are exposed to something that increases or causes it.

I do think it is possible that my kid wasn't born with UC and possibly was given the MMR and her immune system was struck down, she got severely high fevers, at the time she also had fifths disease. After she was diagnosed I took her to a guy that is very well know for doing electro dermal screening (been doing it since 1980s) and she tested positive for a parasite. He did this only as a friend of my Aunt he had nothing to gain from it. It was free. Her GI put her on steroids further knocking her immune system down. Then the medications causing her to bleed worse. Treating the symptom and not the cause. I don't know.

I just think there was a lot of stuff going on. I don't think the MMR helped. In my story it was what started the issues. Whether or not it is true, I guess I will never know.

Ya know Rowan also had the side effect of rectal bleeding caused by the Mesalamine... Sometimes I question if everything has been a side effect of that drug as well. I watched it all go down. Was it so bad because she had UC or was it so bad because she was having side effects. I wish I would have trusted my gut back then, I was just so over loaded with fear and information that I didn't know what to do. I just did what I was told.

My whole journey from start to colectomy is just so out of the ordinary. I wonder if UC wasn't a symptom the whole time of something else going on. Whether it be a parasite, the vaccinations, the Mesalamine. I will forever be cursed with this question. I really hope I am alive when they do in fact figure it out. If I am in the looney bin please send me the news.

I hate hindsight. Well thanks for the great discussion.
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
Thinking of you Mary and hearing you loud and clear on how the ending what ifs and quest for answers would have us all fighting for the corners in a room in which to rock and pluck our eyelashes out one by one. :ghug:

:hang: You are one amazing mum and no mistake.

Dusty. :heart:
 
I think that there are certain families who have had reactions to vaccines that should probably not get them. When the herd is vaccinated then those individuals can do so safely.

I hear what you are saying about the string of events you have watched unfold with Rowan. I can see in hindsight some things that may have triggered Johnny's crohns and I hate wondering if I had made a different decision if maybe he wouldn't have gotten this horrible disease at 11 years old. I do know I love the kid like crazy and really truly in my heart did all I thought I should at the time, just as I know you did as well.

I know someday will all have a few more answers to these questions. I am looking forward to that day!
 
My wife and I have been doing a lot of research on this subject as we're expecting a little one in about 6 weeks now. Where we currently stand:

- We will not get any vaccinations for diseases that do not have high fatality rates, cause disability, or can be reasonably avoided through proper sanitation/safe lifestyle choices, and a strong immune system. For example, we will not get the Heps, MMR, or chicken pox vaccine. We're on the fence with others and still researching.

- We will not be getting our child vaccines while he is under the age of 2. He will get them as he gets older.

- He WILL get some vaccines as some very dangerous diseases are making a comeback due to the lack of vaccinations out there.
Hey David FYI. Only bc this is your first kiddo, I am so certain you know this because you are one smart :cookie: anyway... Just in case. I figured it was very important to let you know that I didn't sign anything for my kid to get the HepB vaccination until after she had it. They do it routinely and in order to not get it your wife will have to get tested and you might have to sign a waiver beforehand. Then they will still be all over you about how it is a death sentence. Figured it worth mentioning. They give it in the nursery here, your kid will come back with a bandaid as they take blood from them and give the shot.

Granted I am in Michigan and your in Florida. So hopefully not an issue for you.
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah that ^^^^
Each stare has its own "routine "
Newborn immunizations and blood work screening
Which they tend to do very quickly
 
Rygon followed your link very interesting reading in normal people language as well,the MMR vaccine works well going by the figures.the lone voice crying in wilderness isn't,t always correct.the long term side effects of these avoidable childhood illnesses look and are terrible.
 
The safe lifestyle,sanitation choices don,t apply to children there meant to go out play,get dirty,eat worms,scrape knees and shins share spoons,forks with there friends give the family pet a hug,a kiss all these things are out with everyone,s control so it sure makes sense to vaccinate against all of these nasty diseases.you can,t keep children in poly bags.
 
Sorry I know you are trying to be helpful but I didn't read it that way and I really take offense when people seem to want to help their herd for their greater good, then but forget about the kids that did die for that herds immunity. Deaths from vaccinations happen every single day and there are more deaths than there are cases of the diseases they are supposed to be treating. CHECK OUT THOSE STATISICS!
 

DustyKat

Super Moderator
I am locking down this thread.

All that needs to be said has been said. Immunisation has the potential to be a very polarising issue and that is clearly what is occurring now. I am not closing it down because of polarisation but because it is has become divisive in a manner that serves no good.

Dusty.
 
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