Therapist telling me Crohn's is Psychosomatic

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Jenamonkey

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Okay, so I went to a counselor in May because I was under a lot of stress. I had a baby at the end of February, my Crohn's flared about 2 weeks after he was born, my husband isn't dealing well with my illness and we were fighting a lot and I was just stressed out. SO .. I decide to go see an LPC. Within 5 minutes of meeting me, he tells me that Crohn's and most "gut" disorders are all pyschosomatic. Now, in my opinion, whether you think that or not, you do not tell a crying woman with a wriggling baby in her lap that the illness causing her to feel like she doesn't have the energy to take care of her newborn and is ripping apart her marriage is being caused by her emotions or is "all in her head".

Fast forward to this week. I decided to go to a counselor again. Things with my husband are deterioriating and I needed to talk to someone. I mentioned to this counselor that I'd try to get some help 2 months ago, but I'd been put off by the prior LPC because of his believe that Crohn's is pyschosomatic, and SHE proceeds to tell me that the majority of Crohn's patients are victims of abuse and that while she doesn't like the term psychosomatic, she does believe that Crohn's is a result of the mind and body being out of balance.

Am I crazy to think that these counselors should keep this opinion to themselves??? I told her I definitely think that stress plays a MAJOR factor in the disease, but I don't believe it's CAUSED by stress. The second therapist's exact words, and I quote, "Most people with Crohn's are victims of abuse." I have never, in the three years I've been researching Crohn's, come across anything that would link Crohn's to abuse. She also said that when she said it was caused by the mind, she didn't mean it was my FAULT, but that when you subject yourself to bad situations it will manifest itself in the body.

I guess there is a part of me that keeps thinking two "experts" have told you this, and regardless of her disclaimer about it not being my fault, when they said that I felt like they were telling me it WAS my fault. I wasn't strong enough/smart enough/caring enough to take care of myself so I wouldn't have Crohn's.

Am I wrong to think that a counselor shouldn't tell someone they are supposed to be helping this?? I mean, this is a chronic illness that is ripping apart my life right now. I don't need to freaking hear it's in my head.

Has anyone else had an experience like this??
 
Sorry to hear about what your going through

A few years ago now a colleague said it was the 'p' word, although he wasn't a counsellor, he was a Psychology graduate, one of the few people I genuinely respect and probably the smartest (book smart anyhow) person that I've ever met. I do suffer from stress, with visible indicators too and he did sway me slightly but then I realised 'hang on I've just blown my guts out and slumped in a chair for 3 hours unable to work because I've eaten a wholemeal roll - that ain't psychosematic!'

I think its their knowledge framework that they are too ready and willing to apply to conditions that their expertise only has a minor effect on. Although you seem to be getting a big dose of it at the worst time - you could probably see a podiatrist at the moment and they tell you 'its cus you're not walking properly' !
 
Wow! You hit the therapist jackpot, didn't you? Two quacks in a row!

It's not caused by stress but it is definitely exacerbated by stress. Perhaps you could seek out a therapist that specializes in relationships as well as coping with chronic diseases so they would hopefully be more educated about Crohn's.
 
OMG! I am so pee'd off just reading what they have said to you! How awful for you. :(

To me that just trivialises everything my children and everyone else with IBD has had to endure. It is disrespectful and dismissive and I suggest they shut up shop and do some research before they spew forth such rubbish again.

I hope you didn't have to pay for that 'advice' and I hope you are able to find someone that can help you through this that has some inkling of what they are talking about. Maybe go to the CCFA website or ring an IBD unit at a hospital near to you for a recommendation? There really is nothing worse than taking the initiative to seek help only to be shot down in pieces. :hug:

Good luck!

Dusty. xxx
 
Thank you all!! It feels good to hear other people agree that that's crazy. I have another appt today with a new lady. It just really shook my confidence.
 
Well, there is a kernal of truth in what those two said. If they had crohns, it definitely would be psychosomatic, because obviously those two are shitheads (pardon my french).

I'm 6' 3", and in my younger days worked as a bouncer, doorman, bodyguard... well, you name it. I'd jump into bar-room brawls when the odds were 2 or 3 to 1 against me and I'd be the last man standing. No one has ever been able to physically abuse me. And we've seen parents coming on here talking about their infants and toddlers becoming ill with this disease. Psychosomatic??? In a child too young to have any notion of feigning illness... especially such a bizarre and hard to diagnose illness as Crohns. Gimme a break. I don't know which is more absurd... the notion quacks like those two are passing out that Crohns is all in the mind, or that quacks like that get licensed to practice... God help the people who go to see them. They need to be reported ASAP!!

Having said all that... here's the thing. The 'experts' have tried (and failed) to link this disease to depression, stress, what have you. As far as I'm aware, all studies in that vein have failed to directly connect one to the other. BUT... everyone knows (and some studies have shown) a correlation to stress and overall health, and how we respond to any illness when stress is factored in. I don't think any sane person would argue that stress can't be the straw that tipped the scale (or broke the crohnies back) and triggered a downturn, a flare, an episode or an opening that whatever 'bug' which causes Crohns took advantage of. Doesn't mean it's all in our heads, or that our heads played an outside the norm role in it. You know what I mean?

Some folks have the gift to make anything they say sound legit... authoritive.. real. But that is just a trick. Like magic. You see it, but no matter how real it may appear, you've got to remember its all an illusion. Don't believe me. I'll demonstrate. Those two therapists. Consensus of everyone here is they are quacks, right? Well, only ducks quack, so those two must be ducks. The logic is inescapeable, you can't argue with it.

Take care, and don't feed the ducks. Broil them
 
Kev I think I love you! Thanks for your assessment. The logic IS irrefutable.

I went to a new lady yesterday and the look on her face when I admitted I was feeling stressed about these two prior experiences told me I have found the right counselor. She actually did ask for their names. I don't think she's going to report them or anything, but the fact that I felt like she cared and that she was appalled for me gave me a lot of confidence.
 
These guys sound like quacks are they APA approved? American Psychological Association.

Crohns and stress have a relationship and my crohns gets worse when I'm stressed but it's not just psychosomatic.
 
It is a relief to hear you have found someone to help you.
The first two quacks should be struck off the register.
Crohn's is an inflammatory disorder likely triggered in the first place by some unknown infection .
We cannot control it by any amount of positive thinking.Be wonderful if we could!
Most illnesses are worsened by stress which can be both psychological and physical.
I would think you have your hands full with a young baby and an uncaring husband.
Perhaps if he had more understanding of Crohn's he would be more helpful to you.
It could be an idea for him to come to the meetings with the psychologist also.
Hope things rapidly improve for you.
Feel better soon
Hugs and best wishes
Trysha
 
This makes me so angry! The NERVE of those two people. I am so sorry you had to deal with that twice, especially when things are hard for you right now.

You know what stresses me out? Having my guts rot and fall out of my ass. Having Crohn's is stressful!!

Don't you let them get in your head at all. They are wrong, and should be ashamed to call themselves professionals.

I'm so glad to hear that you have found someone who seems as alarmed by those statements as you are.

Take care,
~Tammy
 
Well, let me hijack this thread for a moment, and tell you a little story (true, but little). I knew this gal... her hubby drank. He drank a lot. Nothing she tried could convince him to quit, or at the very least cut back. Not even after he lost his license for drinking/driving; (he was a delivery driver of sorts, so this WAS a big deal). Finally, out of desperation she started spiking his bottles with liquid laxative. Apparently, he never noticed the taste, but he did feel the effects. He was convinced his drinking was to blame, so he cut back. Way back. But didn't quite quit. Unfortunately, at some point he figured out that what he drank away from home didn't affect him, and put two and two together. Her innovative solution didn't last. The marriage didn't last either. Go figure. I dunno. Is it crossing the line to spike a spouses intake if there is no other way to get the point across?
 
When I was undiagnosed for a year I actually had a colonoscopy which indicated Crohn's, but I never saw the result and my local generalist either ignored or suppressed it and put me on an anti-depressant which completely freaked me out after two pills and screwed up my stomach big time. I changed doctor and after two years have slowly put together a team of Generalist, Gastro, Rhumy, Physio and Osteopath who I trust and who communicate. Interestingly all have different views on Crohn's but nobody has suggested it is in my mind and all take it seriously and listen to me.

Do not listen to these f---wits. Crohn's flares cause a system overload which brings emotional distress, severe in some people and worsened by stress. I've been sobbing hysterically at times (before Humira) and that is with (a) very supporting loving wife (b) retired (c) living comfortably in a beautiful area. In my book you are a heroine for putting up with all this shit for the sake of your family, when it is you who need proper help. Good luck and do not lose faith in yourself.
 
Kev said:
In a child too young to have any notion of feigning illness... especially such a bizarre and hard to diagnose illness as Crohns. Gimme a break. !!
Click to expand...

Well I'll put this nicely and calm as I can.
My girl is 3 and still undiagnosed for IBD. OK with that said.

I have never heard a notion so stupid in all my life.:mad2:

First I have never nor has anyone else harmed my little girl. She's more than likely going to be like Kev and finish the fights not be the one being abused:ybiggrin:

Second if abuse could cause this why don't most parents to IBD children have it!!!! Maybe were not physically abuse but we sure are mentally abuse.:cool:
-Doctors telling us before DX that where making this up or our kids are trying to get attention.
-Family and friends thinking oh, just let them have some popcorn and were made to feel like the worst parents ever.
-Schools treating us like were a nuisance because of food restrictions and time out of school.

WOW If their right that abuse can cause this, I better get checked out quick!:eek:utahere:

:thumright:Sorry just my two cents, that's only worth one cent in our economy.:thumleft:
 
Wow.... Seriously?? I am sorry you had to deal with that. Twice! Are they just completely ignoring the Crohn's - Genetic link? What are their sources for these statements? Because I am completely unaware of any study that supports their point of view.
Exacerbates? Yes. Contributes? Yes. Causal? Doubt it.
I am thrilled that you realized their statements were less than accurate. I wonder how many of their other patients were harmed by such ideas.
Thank you for posting about it.
 
Paul Cronk said:
I changed doctor and after two years have slowly put together a team of Generalist, Gastro, Rhumy, Physio and Osteopath who I trust and who communicate. Interestingly all have different views on Crohn's but nobody has suggested it is in my mind and all take it seriously and listen to me
Click to expand...

This! Never in my life have I been accused of this, my doctors usually go too far with me and are way over protective but never accuse me of it being in my head. Run as far away as you can from these people and find someone else.

I wonder what they say about Diabetics? Viral infection?
 
Yeah- f*%# those nuts.

My current counselor at one point hinted at something similar, and it took a while for me to confront what I thought had been the message. I already trust and feel good about him, so it was not at all the level of bs/trauma as these 2 assholes. His idea that the primary effect of having crohn's is illness and setbaks and stress and all that (having our guts rot and come out of our asses-cracks me up), but the secondary effect can be a gain- getting out of things we need to do, blaming the disease, using it to shield ourselves from further stress. I see his point in certain circumstances. Part of me still thinks its bo-o-o-o-gus.

I appreciate all the thoughtful responses to Jenamonkey's issue- made me laugh and helped me remember that yes, stress is a big part of exacerbating all of the manifestations of Crohn's, but not one of us gave ourselves the disease for some psychological gain.

Well, there's my 2 cents worth.
 
My last girlfriend told me she thinks that my crohns is also something more psychological the physical. (She is studying psychology). She is now my ex..... Ha
 
We have a hard enough time getting our medical Drs to always take this seriously in the beginning of our illness. So I guess I am not suprised- saddened for you? Yes, for sure!

My husband does not "get it" either. I wont even go into what an a$$ he is most of the time. That alone can be upsetting. Usually, I handle a really stressful situation ok, but, when its over-
my body falls apart.

Not only that- if I was able to do this "to myself"- I would figure out away to "give it to him"!! I mean why not?

Jenn- how are your Remicade treatments going? I will have number 4 in Sept. Still having trouble. Ugh!!

I hope you feel better soon!

lauren
 
Here's another argument AGAINST the psychosomatic quacks. I have been through a LOT of emotional and physical trauma... death of a parent, breakup of a longterm relationship, loss of job, home... well, the list goes on and on, SINCE I started taking LDN. Now, if the disease WAS all in my head, then these issues should have caused a relapse or flare-up. But they didn't. I'm living proof that with the right med, a crohnie can deal with shit other than the crohns kind and keep on trucking.
 
This is a hard thing to read..no one need ever be discounted for having a chronic illness that I would venture to say none would choose..I have to say I do believe that illness is very complex..who can say,even amongst the most brilliant scientists what actually causes IBD?! I do feel the mind
/spirit/body are truly interconnected.that seems like a no brained but it has takn me years to come to terms with this belief. Do I think it's 'all in my head'? Of course not!any mental health person saying it is should be reported to a licensure board. Does stress affect my crohns?im sure of it..and let me add,too,that positive events can bring on stress as well! I went on a long awaited trip overseas to visit friends this year and ended up in one long flare up. It could have been the travel,hell,I don't know..maybe the prolonged trip in an airplane attributed to it too!
I will also be so brave as to say I am a survivor of trauma in my past..mainly being raped. Do I feel this CAUSED my crohns?! For petes sake!noo..I have had courage in dealing with what happened. And this diagnosis of crohns came after a prolonged stay in developing countries doing work..probably where I was repeatedly exposed to bacteria. So were others there and they didn't come up with it..my genetics,environment ..all these things play a part. And just to be clear too, I ate a very healthy and clean diet prior to leaving the states for years..just sayin..good for you that you have sought someone else who may be able to help you cope with an illness that is hardly a picnic!
 
I don't know. This is just my opinion based on what I read, there is a link between stress and the composition of the gut bacteria because of the nervous system influencing both.

So is stress or abuse causative next to genetic predisposition, infection, dysbiosis, ..sure, why not, it's possible imo. To say it's only caused by stress is ridiculous I feel, but that doesn't exclude stress or any mental state that disregulates the gut flora as a causative element.

Why does one twin with the exact same genes get crohn and the other does not? Exposure to some pathogen? Stress? idk

Something happened in our lives that resulted in this disease, we weren't born with crohn, we might have had a genetic predisposition, but something was the trigger that put us over the edge.

Even when twins both get the disease (only happens in like 50%), there can be up to a 10 year diffference between them of the onset of crohn. Why..idk.
 
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The microbiome-gut-brain axis during early life regulates the hippocampal serotonergic system in a sex-dependent manner.

Alimentary Pharmabiotic Centre, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland [2] Department of Psychiatry, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland.

"Reduced anxiety in GF (germ-free) animals is normalised following restoration of the intestinal microbiota. These results demonstrate that CNS neurotransmission can be profoundly disturbed by the absence of a normal gut microbiota and that this aberrant neurochemical, but not behavioural, profile is resistant to restoration of a normal gut flora in later life"


It's interesting because they see it in animals, more interesting than in humans I feel. There is no chance of a placebo effect, those animals have no clue that they are being tested and what for, there is no chance that a placebo effect is influencing these results.
 
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Kiny,

I'm with you on that. Been doing a lot of research on many of the same things as you.

My mom has UC and I have Crohn's. There's a known genetic link. Of course stress effects us, it effects everything in our lives, but it certainly doesn't cause it (trigger maybe, not cause).

A speaker (psychologist) at a seminar my mom attended in college claimed people get sick because they have 'bad karma'. Claiming it's psychosomatic is akin to that. Just dumb and hurtful.
 
Just to clarify.... I'm saying that emotional stress doesn't cause Crohns. But, if you are ill AND under a great deal of stress, I think that combo may be enough to tip the scales in favour of whatever virus, bacteria, microbe, etc., that is the root cause to give it the go ahead.

There have been plenty of studies on the overall health effects of stress, and there also have been studies on how positive emotions, even positive outlook, improves chances of recovery. No, a great deal of emotional upheaval when the body is low facing physical challenges (illness, puberty, pregnancy, change of life, etc.,) can be just the thing this disease lays in wait for to make its first move. But I know that the disease isn't all just in our heads. There is a physical cause, and emotions are just contributing factors. That is my take... my belief.
 
What a crock of shit. Are they looking to throw u under the bus w post pardum too. What a beeeeeep. You should have said Well if I cant control my bowels wouldnt that f w your mind too? Shakes head. Grrrrrrrr.
 
I am a licensed psychologist and have had Crohns for about 17 years. I can dell you that both of those therapists are WRONG!!!! Any physical symptom CAN be psychosomaticly caused, but the mere presence of these symptoms does not indicate anything in particular, except that the person needs to be seen by a physician/

I spent five years getting ,my doctorate, and I can tell you that 1/2 of mental health professions need mental health professionals themselves. I am sorry you had to meet tow terrible ones. Keep looking...or contact CCFA who probably can refer you to someone with an expertise in this area. Don't put up with idiots!!

On behalf of the entire profession...SORRY!!
 
Oh yeah, I have heard the same crap. Any phsycologist who tells you your physical illness is due to stress or some other lame excuse, kick'em to the curb and find another doctor! That is just stupid. I mean YES, stress can and will make any illness or condition worse, that is a fact. I mean if you have a migrane headache and you get super stressed out, yeah, the headache is going to get worse. But Stress DOES NOT cause illness in itself. If that were the case, everyone in this world would be afflicted with all kinds of shit. I am sorry, some people should never be allowed to practice medicine. Just like there are bad mechanics out there and bad plumbers; well there are also a lot of bad doctors out there and medical professionals......
 
One of the first Questions my new GI asked me is if I've ever been abused. I told him no one has ever asked that before in Re: to crohns . He said that's one of the first questions GIs should ask. Why? I don't understand the coorelation. It's baharu enough to get treated so once in a while it feels like its in my head. To actually have a "professional " say that to you. That is BS! I am so sorry! Glad you found someone new.
 
I dont know, if my gastroenterologist asked me that question, I would likely have a few words with him and then walk out of there. That is offensive. I would have point blank told him I was paying him to do his job as a gastroenterologist, nothing more! I mean WTH! I swear like I said, I cannot believe that some people are even allowed to practice medicine. I really think some of them get their degree's in a cracker jack box!!
 
Maybe I will post a new thread seeing if that is commonly asked. My GI is supposed to be good, but WTH is right.
 
During my last hospital stay the dr that was treating me accused me of being a drug seeker since I have so many health conditions and I told her that the lortab 5 was doing nothing for my pain. So she sends in this other dr the next day who chewed me a new a$$ whole :hallo3: about how i'm not going to get any more pain meds and that she went over my medical records and said that none of my health issues should be causing me pain. I wish I could have gotten out of that bed and slap her. She pissed my husband off so bad he had to leave the room before they would have end up calling security on him.:ymad:

I told her do a psych eval on me if you think i'm crazy and she did send in a psychiatrist the next day. She concluded that I was depressed but I was not faking or drug seeking. Even after that she still would not help my pain.

I went home for 2 days then ended up getting readmitted and they gave me the same dr I had the first time :eek: and again she would not give me anything for my pain. I called the charge nurse and requested a new dr. I was in so much pain that I could not stop crying and the nurses keep calling her and telling her how bad off I was. They finally sent in the dr who diagnosed me with Diabetes insipidus during my first stay. He had the nurse check my blood pressure while he was in the room it was 189/ 136 he told her to go and get me some dilaudid and quickly. Then he figured out I also had a dysautonomia disorder. I wish he had a regular practice but he is just a hospitalist.

Anyway with that said somebody please tell me how you fake or just think up inflammation and obstructions and strictures and fistulas. Cause yourself to have bloody poop and more. I do not know anyone whose mind is that powerful. Plus like mentioned above how does a child or animal make up this disease.

If your symptoms are all in your head then all of your blood work and any testing done would always be normal not showing that you need emergency surgery or that you have to be put on some expensive biological drug. Don't you think the insurance company would not pay for our health care if it was just something in our head.

I am going to start seeing a therapist after I recover from surgery and the focus is how to deal with the stress of being so sick. I wish he would say its all in my head. You guys will see me on the news because I will show him crazy.:mad2: :lol2:
 
Just after I was diagnosed I went to a counsellor not expecting them to know anything about IBD, but to at least know how to help someone with a chronic disease. They proceeded to swear blind that IBD was the same as the many IBS patients she had seen and that it was 'just an allergic reaction" and "didn't I know I was doing this to myself being so stressed?" I walked out of the session before it was over, and never went back.
 
I feel like people with crohns are discriminated against. It seems like we have all has similar horrible healthcare stories. I'm losing faith in humanity !
 
This topic is truly upsetting me...,in case you couldn't tell. I try to will this S$&@y disease away mentally daily. I had a drug seeking similar experience a few weeks ago and will not go back to the ER unless I'm dying. I'm going to do some research to find out why Docs think this way. It's as if they don't believe it exists and if it does, it's pain free.
 
I am so lucky in that respect. After being hospitalised last year they had me evaluated by a psychiatrist and I got the abuse question. I was so angry that they would make assumptions and it is so dangerous! If I hadn't continued to pursue the physical aspect I would never have found out I have inflammation in my bowel!! I spent most of my teenage years in therapy for an anxiety that doesn't exist. When I got out of hospital I decided I would see a psychologist privately, cost me thousands. I was desperate. I never saw any improvement over a year and the end result was being severely out of pocket and letters to all doctors involved saying this is not psychological, please sort it out.
 
I also visited my new GP and he asked me if I had been abused. WTF ??? I said why do you ask ? I had no idea that some people in the medical profession think this !! So angry now . Also keeps trying to give me drugs for depression , Im coping well I think.Glad you have found someone new & that is right for you . Good luck
 
Geez, How disgusting that a doctor can actually have the nerve to ask this kind of question. OK, I get it if a person goes into a therapists office with nothing physically wrong with them and they are mentally messed up, then I can understand that question to a point. But to simply assume that because someone has crohns disease or any other disease for that matter that this person has been abused is outrageous!

I also get pissed when I read about how people who are in severe pain and need pain meds are called drug seekers. This blows my mind. I remember when I was in the worst with my IC ( interstitial cystitis), which is a debilitating severely painful bladder disease, I had a urogyne specialist ask me what my main goal was by coming to her for help. I of course told her I needed to get my severe pain under control as it was killing me. She went bizerk on me. She stood up and started ranting about how she would never give me any pain meds, and that all IC patients end up in Drug rehab eventually due to taking pain meds. I was with my husband and we both looked at each other and started laughing. I was not trying to be rude or anything, it is just she was like so hyper and acting like I just asked her for something outrageous. mind you, I did not even ask her for any meds, I just said I needed to find a way to help my severe pain.

Needless to say, I never went back to her. More so for the fact that she freaked me out the way she acted, I mean she went into freak-out mode just because I mentioned how much pain I was in. I did not even ask her for anything. My husband kind of thought maybe she was a past drug user or had some personal issues going on because why would you act all crazy like that??

Anyhow, I would love these doctors who seem to think it is soooo easy to live with a severely painful disease to live in our shoes for awhile and see how they feel afterwards.

As far as pain goes. Any knowledgable doctor knows that It is not good to leave a person in severe pain. What happens when you leave a person in severe pain for any length of time, your body does not know how to break that pain cycle. It becomes a viscious circle and you cannot get out of pain. This happens with people who have chronic pain issues. It is so important to get pain under control. Also, people who use narcotics for pain do not become addicted to them. Yes, you can bulid a tolerance to them where they lose their pain relieveing abilities after awhile, but most people do nto become addicted. My brother had an accident at work where he lost all the fingers and part of his right hand in a steel pressing machine. He had to undergo a few surgeries after that. He was on pain meds for about 6 months. He never got addicited and was able to stop them with no problems whatsoever when his pain got better and more manageable. Also, everytime a doctor writes a script for pain meds, they have to fill out a ton of paper work saying why they are handing out paid med scripts. I think a lot of doctors just do not want to deal with all the paper work involved..... Really sad.
 
I believe that a lot of people in the medical field just don;t know enough, or perhaps care enough to find out; about Crohns or similar diseases. It is so complex, so different in how it presents in sooooo many of us... that it puzzles, perhaps even intimidate many doctors.
Their response? Fall back on their personal favourite pet theory, make the facts of our cases/symptoms/complaints FIT, dismiss outright any that don't fit... and when all else fails break into psychosomatic or abuse theories to cover up their lack of skill/knowledge.

I recall a GI (a very reputable GI no less) who, when my bizarre version of IBD flummoxed him, asking if I'd ever been diagnosed with clinical depression. The mere fact that he would 'fallback' to that line of thinking pissed me off... and anyone who knows me... or even has met me briefly on more than one occasion (as he had) would know that I don't go in for depression. I told him flat out... I wasn't clinically depressed, not anywhere near that (I know people with that problem... they ain't me). I was just sick and tired of being sick and tired... and of no one in all the ranks of these top notch Dr's being able to figure out what was wrong with me AND how to go about correcting it. He didn't seem to like my response. Mind you, perhaps he was carrying a personal grudge. On the morning he operated on me... in front of everyone... before the anesthetic had kicked in.. I said a little prayer. "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep. And if I die before I wake, I guess my doctor made a mistake. Amen." Everyone in the OR laughed, except him. So, clinically depressed, me? No! Absolutely nuts.. YES!!
 
Kev,

I loved your prayer!Lol!! What you said is so true though. Doctors always have to have something to blame your issues on, and if they cannot find it, well then it's in your head or your depressed or you are having anxiety etc..
I have only had one Gastro doc who was wonderful. The reason I say this is because he was soooo honest. There were times I went in there are was having issues and would ask him, "what do you think it is"? And there were a lot of times he would say " hell if I know"! I mean he was so honest. He told me about different tests that were useless( waste of money and not reliable). He said that there is not a name for every illness, there are some things that doctors just do not know about. He said most gastro docs will say you have IBS is they cannot find something outright. He said IBS really means "who the hell knows what is wrong with you". I mean this is the kind of doctor he was. He was very knowledgable and I am sad that he moved out of state. But yeah, doctors like that are hard to find......
 
No one has ever told me my disease was psychosomatic, but I did have a GP tell me that I needed to find a way to control the stress in my life, as she was of the belief that was causing a majority of my problems. She really was right. Most of my huge flare ups were all accompanied by major life issues, and stress caused directly by my field of work. Also due to working at the large company I was at, I was constantly being exposed to infections and viruses. She advised that I find another job. It seemed like a stretch. I left my job for other reasons and I am happy to report I no longer have that set of issues.
 
I have had so much of this and it upsets me so much. It seems no matter how many of my health problems are properly diagnosed or how many objective tests come back abnormal, I can never be free of the suspicion that some or all of my illness is psychosomatic/fake/a delusion. I have been absolutely flawed when a doctor lists my positive test results and objective signs of illness, and then goes on to recommend a psychiatrist might be necessary.

They never seem to distinguish between people who fake illness, people who have stress-related illness and hypochondria. It's as if it all comes under one big useless mental health label. And if you have a mental illness - whether you genuinely do or whether a doctor simply believes you do - then they think it's impossible that you could have a physical illness as well. As if everyone with a mental illness is immune from phsyical conditions!

And they do not treat mental illness as it should be treated. If they think you have a mental illness, then you are deemed evil - or at the very least responsible for your condition and wasting doctors' time. I hate to think how hard it is for people with genuine mental illness to face this attitude and discrimination constantly. Surely the clue should be in the word "illness"? While on the one hand many doctors seem to want to emphasise how closely the physical and mental are connected - they emphasis the role of stress and attitude even in phsyical illness, etc. - at the same time they view phsyical and mental illness as complete opposites, with mental illness somehow morally objectionable and something the patient is responsible for.

Sorry for the rant. I hate to generalise. I'm sure there are some doctors who have much better attitudes. I just wish I could meet more of them!
 
Mental illness is not well understood.

Crohn's is not well understood.

They are fishing for a solution.

My best understanding is this:

Crohn's creates inflammation in the gut (bad enough itself)which sends ripples throughout the body and overloads the nervous system. That in turn either drives you nuts (in a colloquial sense) and/or creates extra-intestinal symptoms (my spine is stiiffer than the osteopath has seen in anybody without meningitis!). Then the nervous system is further overloaded and you have a viscious circle, because many of us feel that stress does bring on flares.

They have to understand this and help us break the viscious circle. I believe on some occasions, treating the mind and nervous system is appropriate, but the cause is the Crohn's and if you fix that the rest should go away.

But it doesn't always......

So until somebody puts money into research and finds the solutions we are going to have to get by on drugs which were developed for arthritis, nasty steroids, body/mind calmers and whatever else it takes to survive. The relationship with the doctor is paramount and if they are not on the wavelength they need replacing.

Don't let the b*****s get you down.
 
I wonder if it sometimes becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not that doctors are prophets. :p But if everyone keeps telling you you're insane, you're going to get depressed and your self esteem will suffer. And it's hard to be a happy, confident, energetic model of mental health when you have an illness that makes you neurotic about bathrooms and food and keeps you too exhausted to have fun sometimes.
 
Unexmass..oh did you strike a cord with me! In an earlier posting in this thread I spoke about the 'second brain' which is our gut as others have pointed out as well..tons of neurotransmitters..makes sense when there is that flight or fight reaction of the sympathetic nervous system and its common to feel that tightening in the gut, at least for me. And it's cohort in crime is the parasympathetic nervous system which. Is activated in the gut to slow it down and divert extra blood supply in case of that fight or flight reaction to happen..
So how could there not be a complex interconnected of factors.
That's not saying that we are making up out illness or its symptoms..oh yeah, I love me some bloody diarrhea and bring me to my knees pain. So try not to misten to ignorance. Why oh why do people get into health care when they cannot care!!
 
Ckt said:
Unexmass..oh did you strike a cord with me! In an earlier posting in this thread I spoke about the 'second brain' which is our gut as others have pointed out as well..tons of neurotransmitters..makes sense when there is that flight or fight reaction of the sympathetic nervous system and its common to feel that tightening in the gut, at least for me. And it's cohort in crime is the parasympathetic nervous system which. Is activated in the gut to slow it down and divert extra blood supply in case of that fight or flight reaction to happen..
So how could there not be a complex interconnected of factors.
That's not saying that we are making up out illness or its symptoms..oh yeah, I love me some bloody diarrhea and bring me to my knees pain. So try not to misten to ignorance. Why oh why do people get into health care when they cannot care!!
Click to expand...

That mind/gut connection confuses me! I know they're related, but I had such negative experiences with doctors telling me in various ways that my problems were all in my head, I feel it's too dangerous to ever admit the possibility of psychological factors in the presence of a doctor.

Before I got sick - when I was a child - my stomach never reacted to stress. I didn't have much stress in my life back then but if I was a bit nervous about something I may have trouble sleeping. That was my only physical symptom that resulted from a psychological cause. I know it's supposed to be common for people to get stomach upsets from nerves, but that was never the case for me. So when my digestive system started playing up and doctors told me "it's stress," it confused me terribly because I knew it was not.

Since then there has never been any correlation between my mood and my physical symptoms. What perplexes me is that some doctors refuse to believe this to be true! I don't understand why they find it so objectionable. It's not even just that they don't believe it - they seem to find it almost morally objectionable that I claim to have an illness that doesn't worsen with stress or respond positively to good changes in mood.

Maybe I'm missing some wiring in my nervous system? :p

The difficult thing for me though is that later I had major problems in my life that inevitably caused me great emotional stress and unhappiness. But if I admit that to a doctor, they'll latch onto it as THE cause of all my physical symptoms. I can't ask for any help with depression - not that I think much could help, since my depression is not irrational or chemical but a result of real situations - because if that got on my medical record, I know from experience I would not only face prejudice and discrimination, but they'd be even less likely to understand my illness as the physical condition it is. Even getting some proven diagnoses of physical problems hasn't really changed this, because of the assumption that any physical illness is tied up with psychology somehow.

So I pretend to doctors my mood is fine and avoid answering questions about non-illness problems in my life. Probably not very convincingly. I feel awful for doing this, but I used to be honest about my life and the discrimination that I experienced - and the disregard for my physical illness - meant I will never risk doing so again.
 
Out of ideas? The patient is imagining it. Ya, that's the ticket

One of the most prevalent and concerning trend in modern medicine is the patient is always wrong.

Once the last test is done (there are always additional diagnostic tests that should have been done weeks ago but were not), with no overt pathology (medical term for "ain't nothing on the reports I read") then, the patient is at fault (he/she is imagining the illness).

Poppycock!

A person that has gut symptoms (diarrhea, cramping, bloating, and so forth) cannot be imagining their constant bathroom visits, and its concomitant physical and emotional pain. Begs the question-if they could, why would they want to have Crohn's Disease? Wouldn't another, less complex disease, suffice. One that does not involve athletics (100 yard dash to the nearest washroom) and/or GPS searches for service stations?

So, dear friends, when you hear the term, psychosomatic or "it's all in your head", or "let me give you an anti-depressant for that gut problem', it is time to find another doc. Preferably one that reads this week's Gastro medical journals, attends the occasional medical meeting and talks with you, rather than at you.
(personal opinion, not speaking for the entire medical profession-my disclaimer).

Lordie, my cat's vet (a vet after all) never says- "Oh that diarrhea and vomiting she has been experiencing for 6 months, it's all in her head!"
 
UnXmas..I really do understand the predicament. I am a recovering addict..with a very painful illness that requires narcotics when I'm flaring or have a bowel obstruction like right now(I'm in the hospital). So I get plenty of judgement from health care providers. I even had one horrible gi docktr actually stop my remicade that I had been receiving for 2 years props and he said"you're an ADDICT..you don't have crohns'"..oh really? take a gander at the operative path report with a full thickness biopsy pal!it boggles the mind..so I ended up in the hospital threes times in the span of one and a half months for obstructions and inflammation sick as a dog. So yes..I so get prejudice!
What makes sense to me is that there are actual physical changes and hormones released that are so detrimental to our bodies. I don't think ANY disease is caused by stress or our abilities to adapt to it. I have also had huge flares when I was the happiest..working in Africa. I had my plan of doing international women's health and it broke my heart when I was diagnosed with crohns as I can't very well hang out in distant villages or even capital cities in developing countries without getting really sick.
I sure dont want crohns. I do not want my life to be narrowed so muc that the quality of life is on par with a cockroach's! I was traveling the world, doing work I was passionate about, very independent and financially stable..now I am on disability, hasn't worked in ten years due to the revolving door at the hospital, filed for bankruptcy due to medical bills, and had my car repossessed! Oh yeah..I'm wanting some of THAT!(;
I hate it when doctors disregard the physical and compartmentalize out health needs into a picture that is more reassuring to THEM. I mean, they aren't the one loving in my body now are they?
I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable seeking help with depression. And it's a crying shame that you can't go to a doctor who won't judge you on any issues dealing with psych issues. To be discounted is probably one of the most horrible feelings!
Hang in there and I find this site so helpful!:)
 
My doctor told me that Crohn's is in your genes and that a traumatic experience can trigger it. Personally, my symptoms did not start until my parents got divorced. This was a very stressful event for me and I internalized a lot of the stress. So, I do agree with her when she said that Crohn's could be a result of the mind and body being out of sync.

HOWEVER, she/he should in NO way be making you feel like you did something to cause yourself to have this disease. I think you just need to find a counselor who is more educated with the disease. Perhaps contact your IBD doctor and ask for a referral? Also maybe try a Psychiatrist instead. Mine seems much better at discussing Crohns than any counselor that I've seen, probably because he also has a medical degree.

Don't lose hope..... just find someone that works for and with you.
 

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