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Why Don't GI Doctors Take The Role Of Diet Seriously?

Both my Gastroenterologist and his nurse practicioneer who have been in practice for decades refuse to believe that diet and nutrition plays a role in the treatment of Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis.

Just the fact that so many people have vitamin and mineral deficiencies, food allergies, food sensitivities and food intolerances ALONE should be on the radar of all GI doctors.

Then you have who knows how many patients are on a high junk food with a lot of refined sugar and/or alcohol which are of course inflammatory.

I get it. Its far more profitable to prescribe medications than to alleviate suffering via simple dietary changes, but I refuse to believe that most GI doctors are "psychopaths."


Why do you think that nearly all GI doctors do not tell their patient's to make adjustments in their diet?
 
The biggest reason doctors prescribe medications is that diet most of the time does not induce remission for patients. I would say that diet is the second most important thing when it comes to maintaining IBD with medication being most important.

Personally, I find that I can eat anything without causing any symptoms. Does this mean I eat a bunch of junk food? Absolutely not. Ever since my diagnosis, I have changed my diet to include more fruits and veggies and less processed food.

If your GI doctor thinks that diet plays no role in your IBD, then I would say it's time to find a new GI doctor.
 
Medical schools teach less than 20 hours of nutrition over four years. Doctors just don't get the training. My GI is from India, and diet is a big part of his treatment.
 
My GI had told me that diet does not cause or prevent Crohn's, however he does recommend a healthy diet now that I am in remission. While I was flaring I had to eat what I could tolerate, which wasn't much. I had to drink nutritional drinks just to get my weight up. He has given me educational pamphlets and sent me videos about healthy eating. He is big on eating enough fiber and staying away from all the yummy stuff (fried foods, spicy foods, soda, alcohol, fatty foods, etc.). I try to be as healthy as possible, but I still enjoy some junk food!

I would agree that part of the problem is that not all doctors get a good training in nutrition. I believe that traditional medicine and supplements together can be the best treatment...but you have to find what works for your body. Just because I can eat bean burritos even when flaring but can only tolerate a couple of salads a week even in remission doesn't mean that's the same for everyone.

As far as vitamin deficiencies that may have a lot to do with where the inflammation is. I have the disease only in the colon so I have not had too many deficiencies. Only really anemia and dehydration.

My GI once said that I have to remember that anything that would be mildly irritating to the digestive tract in a person without the disease will be extra irritating to me because of inflammation and ulcers. For example beef is very hard for the body to digest. When flaring I cannot tolerate it at all. When in remission I can have it sometimes, but not all the time. This disease is crazy!
 
Both my Gastroenterologist and his nurse practicioneer who have been in practice for decades refuse to believe that diet and nutrition plays a role in the treatment of Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis.
I think one reason why diet often looms so much larger in the minds of patients than of doctors is that diet is the one thing that is under the patient's direct control. Diet is the one tool that patients own. Medication, on the other hand, is the main tool that doctors own. Doctors and patients alike tend to focus on the tools at their disposal.

All the GIs I know are convinced that diet plays a role in the treatment of IBD. They are very familiar with the concept of "trigger foods" and the need to avoid them, and I've never met a doctor of any kind who wasn't interested in promoting a healthy diet to his/her patients. However, GIs know from sad experience that dietary adjustments alone won't do the trick. Except in the case of very mild disease, medication is going to be needed to achieve and maintain remission of IBD.

For the vast majority of Crohn's cases diet will play a role but a secondary role. The remission "heavy lifting' will be done by the medication.
 
I definitely think diet plays a role - but it does not cause or prevent IBD. I'd think of it more as a complimentary treatment.

The problem of using diet over medication for me is that there is nothing protecting you. You could well eat the right diet and be feeling well, and then something happens to set off the inflammatory cycle and without medications to intercept it (if you know what I mean) there is a greater chance it will get out of control and cause a flare.
 

Jennifer

Adminstrator
Any GI I've seen have focused on diet and a little too much in my opinion. Many assume that everyone is eating garbage and don't believe their patients when they say what they actually eat. My current GI pushes organic foods and wants me to make my own kefir from scratch and if I'm not doing that then I'm not trying hard enough. I'm not about to make myself sick. If I wanted a dietitian I would have went to one.

During a flare diet plays an important role because you need your gut to rest and heal which is why GIs will suggest the BRAT diet or a bland one and sometimes even a liquid diet when needed. Preventative care is a whole different animal and highly debatable which would be the number one reason in my opinion why GI doctors don't focus on it much as a whole for treatment. They need to treat a flare as quickly as possible and only medication can provide that. If you want further help with diet then I would suggest seeing a dietitian.
 
Talking in very general terms the causes of IBD are a combination of environmental, dietary, microbial and bacterial factors.

So I think everyone with IBD should take care of their diet and do what works best for them but there is a lot more going on with this disease - things we can't control and that is why we need medication.
 
Many good points made on all these posts. Everyone should aspire to eat a good balanced diet, no matter the circumstances. It would be difficult for a GI to suggest a particular diet as everyone is so different. My son's family doctor mentioned to him to eat a balance diet including fiber. His GI doctor never mentioned diet at all. In the end, you do have the power to eat and figure out what is best for you.
 
Diet will not prevent or cause Crohns.

In some patients - such as myself - diet can be used to CONTROL Crohns. In my case, I developed abdominal cramps about 8 years into the disease. I began to suspect food triggers, and ultimately succeeded in isolating the trigger foods that caused the cramps. It was a painful process but I now know the trigger foods and have been able to control CD through diet. My GI accepted this.

The perplexing thing about CD is that no two patients have the same trigger foods.

I learned about the bland diet and found that after a case of painful cramps, it can speed the recovery and calm down the digestive tract.
 
My GI had told me that diet does not cause or prevent Crohn's, however he does recommend a healthy diet now that I am in remission. While I was flaring I had to eat what I could tolerate, which wasn't much. I had to drink nutritional drinks just to get my weight up. He has given me educational pamphlets and sent me videos about healthy eating. He is big on eating enough fiber and staying away from all the yummy stuff (fried foods, spicy foods, soda, alcohol, fatty foods, etc.). I try to be as healthy as possible, but I still enjoy some junk food!

I would agree that part of the problem is that not all doctors get a good training in nutrition. I believe that traditional medicine and supplements together can be the best treatment...but you have to find what works for your body. Just because I can eat bean burritos even when flaring but can only tolerate a couple of salads a week even in remission doesn't mean that's the same for everyone.

As far as vitamin deficiencies that may have a lot to do with where the inflammation is. I have the disease only in the colon so I have not had too many deficiencies. Only really anemia and dehydration.

My GI once said that I have to remember that anything that would be mildly irritating to the digestive tract in a person without the disease will be extra irritating to me because of inflammation and ulcers. For example beef is very hard for the body to digest. When flaring I cannot tolerate it at all. When in remission I can have it sometimes, but not all the time. This disease is crazy!
For me, beef is far easier to digest than vegetables and fruits.

Thanks for letting me know that you have a GI doctor who cares about your diet-After I stopped dairy, it made a huge difference, and I stopped all sugar about eleven days ago.

I used to buy into the "doctors are not taught nutrition in medical school, so that's why they don't tell their patients," but that's a lie because doctors, like most people have friends, family and acquaintances. They read and watch TV;They are exposed to information about nutrition and were all physicians to tell their patients BEFORE they got sick to follow a healthy diet, they would be out of business.
 
Diet will not prevent or cause Crohns.

In some patients - such as myself - diet can be used to CONTROL Crohns. In my case, I developed abdominal cramps about 8 years into the disease. I began to suspect food triggers, and ultimately succeeded in isolating the trigger foods that caused the cramps. It was a painful process but I now know the trigger foods and have been able to control CD through diet. My GI accepted this.

The perplexing thing about CD is that no two patients have the same trigger foods.

I learned about the bland diet and found that after a case of painful cramps, it can speed the recovery and calm down the digestive tract.
Thanks for your reply. I recently stopped eggs, sugar and most dairy products (only aged cheeses now) and that's helped with some of the inflammation.

I'm happy that your GI doctor was on board with your nutritional choices.

My nurse practicioner(SP) looked me straight in the eye and told me that nutrition does not play an important role in GI problems (paraphrasing) and this woman has been in practice for at least thirty-years and is very intelligent, yet is ignorant about the role of nutrition and stress in GI disorders, but she has no problem pushing high side-effect biologics BEFORE trying other healing modalities.
 
Many good points made on all these posts. Everyone should aspire to eat a good balanced diet, no matter the circumstances. It would be difficult for a GI to suggest a particular diet as everyone is so different. My son's family doctor mentioned to him to eat a balance diet including fiber. His GI doctor never mentioned diet at all. In the end, you do have the power to eat and figure out what is best for you.
Thanks for your reply.

At this point in time, in which professionals share new major findings online, in journals, conferences and the fact that there's a TON of nutritional information on mainstream TV (which doctors watch like anyone else, there is no excuse for GI doctors to not tell their patients the role of food, anti-nutrients, food allergies & sensitivies, leaky gut and stress as major factors in their disease.

I guarantee that there are people with the genes for serious IBD that never express themselves during their lives because their toxin "bucket" and other stressors were kept to a minimum.
 
I think one reason why diet often looms so much larger in the minds of patients than of doctors is that diet is the one thing that is under the patient's direct control. Diet is the one tool that patients own. Medication, on the other hand, is the main tool that doctors own. Doctors and patients alike tend to focus on the tools at their disposal.

All the GIs I know are convinced that diet plays a role in the treatment of IBD. They are very familiar with the concept of "trigger foods" and the need to avoid them, and I've never met a doctor of any kind who wasn't interested in promoting a healthy diet to his/her patients. However, GIs know from sad experience that dietary adjustments alone won't do the trick. Except in the case of very mild disease, medication is going to be needed to achieve and maintain remission of IBD.

For the vast majority of Crohn's cases diet will play a role but a secondary role. The remission "heavy lifting' will be done by the medication.
You make a lot of sense, but when doctors throw antibiotics and high doses of steroids at a person, this DOES cause leaky gut which worsens the inflammation. Then there's the fact that most doctors recommend levels of fiber that actually worsen a disease, plus every person with IBD should not touch eggs, dairy, grains (grasses), nuts or seeds. Also, a decent GI doctor can ask their patient something as simple as their stress levels and if they are getting treated for anxiety which does worsen IBD.

Then there are the very real problems caused by a high oxalate diet which also worsens IBD.

Thanks for your input.
 
Any GI I've seen have focused on diet and a little too much in my opinion. Many assume that everyone is eating garbage and don't believe their patients when they say what they actually eat. My current GI pushes organic foods and wants me to make my own kefir from scratch and if I'm not doing that then I'm not trying hard enough. I'm not about to make myself sick. If I wanted a dietitian I would have went to one.

During a flare diet plays an important role because you need your gut to rest and heal which is why GIs will suggest the BRAT diet or a bland one and sometimes even a liquid diet when needed. Preventative care is a whole different animal and highly debatable which would be the number one reason in my opinion why GI doctors don't focus on it much as a whole for treatment. They need to treat a flare as quickly as possible and only medication can provide that. If you want further help with diet then I would suggest seeing a dietitian.
I cut out all dairy, grains, eggs, sugar and most fruits and vegetables and am currently on the Carnivore diet. I will eventually incorporate well-steamed vegetables over time.

Even though organic, raw dairy helps many people, from what I've heard,even clean dairy can worsen the symptoms of Crohn's and UC.

I read some of your posts in the Entyvio forums. I had my third infusion about one month ago and it was my last because the side-effects were insane. I literally just found out about the risk for PML about a month ago.

I hope that you've been well and have found a new biologic or other treatment to lessen your suffering.

Thanks for your feedback.
 
My guess would be that doctors have to follow “ standard of care” or get sued. Standard of care is based on evidence from clinical trials and scientific research. Clinical trials are mostly funded by pharma and I doubt whether broccoli farmers give out much in the way of research grants. The trials and the research is done in areas that can make money ie drugs. My doctor told me that diet does not have a role in crohns, he gave me a choice of Humira or remicade. I have since found through personal experience that diet is pivotal. I have been in remission for three years and drug free yet even today when I tell my doctor about the lifestyle modifications I made he insists that diet has no role to play. He puts it down to the natural ebb of the disease. However I know for sure when I go off the diet for any length of time I can feel the crohns coming back. There is cause and effect. unfortunately no one other than the patient is going to benefit from researching cost effective natural methods to manage crohns hence the snails pace of research in that area.
 
My guess would be that doctors have to follow “ standard of care” or get sued. Standard of care is based on evidence from clinical trials and scientific research. Clinical trials are mostly funded by pharma and I doubt whether broccoli farmers give out much in the way of research grants. The trials and the research is done in areas that can make money ie drugs. My doctor told me that diet does not have a role in crohns, he gave me a choice of Humira or remicade. I have since found through personal experience that diet is pivotal. I have been in remission for three years and drug free yet even today when I tell my doctor about the lifestyle modifications I made he insists that diet has no role to play. He puts it down to the natural ebb of the disease. However I know for sure when I go off the diet for any length of time I can feel the crohns coming back. There is cause and effect. unfortunately no one other than the patient is going to benefit from researching cost effective natural methods to manage crohns hence the snails pace of research in that area.
Thank you for your insightful answer.

What basic dietary guidelines have worked for you?
 
Thank you for your insightful answer.

What basic dietary guidelines have worked for you?
I tried a bunch of things all at the same time so I am not sure what was effective and what was not or whether it was a combination. So below is how I started off

No grains
No dairy
No alcohol
No sugar
No cooking fats or salad oils other than butter, ghee, virgin olive oil or coconut oil
I took oregano capsules for the first month or so
Fermented foods of some kind with every meal - wildbrine sauerkraut, kimchi etc. after a few months of strictly avoiding all dairy, I added in home made yogurt and raw cheese.
Green smoothie everyday . The smoothie always included blueberries and some kind of green leaf. For a while I tried adding black seed oil to my smoothie but kept forgetting to do so.
Bone broth and collagen. I just buy the powdered stuff. Probably better to make your own.
I now eat a lot of vegetables, especially cabbage, leeks, prebiotic fibrous stuff. At one point I was even sun drying green bananas and grinding them into flour in a spice grinder...I was that dedicated !!
Turmeric, pepper and ginger tea at least twice a day
Regular exercise
At least half an hour every day in the sun without spf
Omega 3
Boswellia
During this time I also changed my job from a high pressure Fortune 500 company to a mid sized firm. That was not because of the Crohn’s but I wonder if the reduction in stress helped.

I started off very much on point but nowadays I am a little more relaxed about it. I listen to my body though. I can tell when I am about to go too far.
 
For the vast majority of Crohn's cases diet will play a role but a secondary role. The remission "heavy lifting' will be done by the medication.
I disagree with this, I think diet is definitively capable of doing the 'heavy lifting', but if the patient is in a flare, then they may require elemental diet initially to bring the inflammation down. Diet works because it changes the microbiome - diet and antibiotics are the main two ways we can do this.

What I'm not clear on is why new intolerances develop.

Hopeful girl - I wondered if you were able to expand the foods you could eat during after so long in remission?

As I'm also not on medication at the moment, but am developing intolerances to my existing diet - so what I can safely have is getting less and less.
 
I tried a bunch of things all at the same time so I am not sure what was effective and what was not or whether it was a combination. So below is how I started off

No grains
No dairy
No alcohol
No sugar
No cooking fats or salad oils other than butter, ghee, virgin olive oil or coconut oil
I took oregano capsules for the first month or so
Fermented foods of some kind with every meal - wildbrine sauerkraut, kimchi etc. after a few months of strictly avoiding all dairy, I added in home made yogurt and raw cheese.
Green smoothie everyday . The smoothie always included blueberries and some kind of green leaf. For a while I tried adding black seed oil to my smoothie but kept forgetting to do so.
Bone broth and collagen. I just buy the powdered stuff. Probably better to make your own.
I now eat a lot of vegetables, especially cabbage, leeks, prebiotic fibrous stuff. At one point I was even sun drying green bananas and grinding them into flour in a spice grinder...I was that dedicated !!
Turmeric, pepper and ginger tea at least twice a day
Regular exercise
At least half an hour every day in the sun without spf
Omega 3
Boswellia
During this time I also changed my job from a high pressure Fortune 500 company to a mid sized firm. That was not because of the Crohn’s but I wonder if the reduction in stress helped.

I started off very much on point but nowadays I am a little more relaxed about it. I listen to my body though. I can tell when I am about to go too far.
Were you able to eat fruits and vegetables while in the worst part of your flareup, or did you begin adding them when you could tolerate them?
I have not been able to digest plant material for a while now.

The only reason that I do not drink green smoothies is the high oxalate (anti-nutrient) content.
I've been on a near zero fiber diet for close to six months now.

I'm positive that I'm taking a long time to heal from my Crohn's Colitis due to the side effects from my three Enytvio infusions; The side-effects I've had from this are very common as written in some of the Entyvio threads.

My GI wanted to put me back on Prednisone again, but unless I'm at "death's door," I'm going to deal with my inflammation with diet and some supplements.

I am going to ease back into working out, but I have to get my Iron levels higher before I go into more intense exercise and the deep fatigue side-effects from the Entyvio begin to wear off in time.

Thanks again for some excellent ideas.
 
I disagree with this, I think diet is definitively capable of doing the 'heavy lifting', but if the patient is in a flare, then they may require elemental diet initially to bring the inflammation down. Diet works because it changes the microbiome - diet and antibiotics are the main two ways we can do this.

What I'm not clear on is why new intolerances develop.

Hopeful girl - I wondered if you were able to expand the foods you could eat during after so long in remission?

As I'm also not on medication at the moment, but am developing intolerances to my existing diet - so what I can safely have is getting less and less.
When I first saw the nurse practicioner at my GI's office three-years ago, she put me on an anti-parasitic, then Cipro BEFORE any fecal occult tests were done. Its now a fact that anti-biotics decimate the microbiome, killing off the beneficial bacteria and allowing the bad bacteria to go nuts.

Plus because most of our seretonin is produced by the gut, anti-biotics often cause panic attacks and/or depression.

I truly believe that at least in some cases, the inflammation should be allowed to run its course while supported by a clean diet & supplements but MOST patients with IBD (myself included) have no clue that they do not ALWAYS have to take Prednisone and other anti-inflammatories.

And as much as I do understand the profit motive for doctors, they could STILL make decent money while advising their patients to go on low or no residue diets, to reduce stress as much as possible, to get as much rest as possible, to cut out all alcohol, refined sugar, dairy, gluten and even eggs,

But then again, I've heard too many anecdotal stories of people getting relief from Ginger, Turmeric, Oil Of Oregano, bone broth, omega 3's, probiotics and other wisely-chosen supplements (as Hopeful girl listed).

And relatively speaking, we only know a tiny bit about the microbiome.

When I was a vegan (BIG mistake), I took a supplement called "Restore4 Gut Health" which seals up the tight junction gaps in the GI tract blocking foreign proteins from creating an inflammatory response, but I now know that anti-biotics, NSAID and Prednisone contribute to leaky gut and I bet that MOST of the inflammation suppressing medications people with IBD are put on cause more harm than good.

I truly get that people who are scared out of their mind will defer 100% to an authority figure (doctor) as I did months ago when I agreed to get Entyvio infusions.
 
I disagree with this, I think diet is definitively capable of doing the 'heavy lifting', but if the patient is in a flare, then they may require elemental diet initially to bring the inflammation down. Diet works because it changes the microbiome - diet and antibiotics are the main two ways we can do this.

What I'm not clear on is why new intolerances develop.

Hopeful girl - I wondered if you were able to expand the foods you could eat during after so long in remission?

As I'm also not on medication at the moment, but am developing intolerances to my existing diet - so what I can safely have is getting less and less.
I agree with you that diet can do the heavy lifting. I wish so very much that there was more research in this area. Right now it is all hit and miss and we figure things out as we go along. The University of Massachusetts school of nutrition ( I think) has IBD anti inflammatory diet guidelines. I did use several of their recipes. People may feel that they eat a “ balanced diet” which means different things to different folk. Unfortunately with Crohn’s you cannot eat a “balanced” diet and heal. You have to become an extremist. It is a question of choosing your sacrifice - you either give up eating like a normal person or you put up with medication and it’s intended and unintended effects.

To answer your question, what causes the most problems for me are North American strains of wheat ( I don’t have such a strong reaction to European or Asian varieties of wheat), beer and sugar. I eat a kind of modified paleoish diet with occasional lapses. I still avoid grains, though I suspect that oatmeal would probably be fine to add back, the last time I had a beer was last summer and then only one single glass :( , I always have something fermented at least once a day. Sunshine ( mild not blistering heat) really does help - I have no idea why, but it does, just taking vit D3 does not have the same effect I still make smoothies three glasses at a time and store in the refrigerator. I am still doing the bone broth , the vegetables and the tablespoon of homemade apple sauce. It’s not hard to do. It’s just that I have to plan things out - no more spontaneous take out ordering and heavens I really miss bread.
 
When I first saw the nurse practicioner at my GI's office three-years ago, she put me on an anti-parasitic, then Cipro BEFORE any fecal occult tests were done. Its now a fact that anti-biotics decimate the microbiome, killing off the beneficial bacteria and allowing the bad bacteria to go nuts.

Plus because most of our seretonin is produced by the gut, anti-biotics often cause panic attacks and/or depression.

I truly believe that at least in some cases, the inflammation should be allowed to run its course while supported by a clean diet & supplements but MOST patients with IBD (myself included) have no clue that they do not ALWAYS have to take Prednisone and other anti-inflammatories.

And as much as I do understand the profit motive for doctors, they could STILL make decent money while advising their patients to go on low or no residue diets, to reduce stress as much as possible, to get as much rest as possible, to cut out all alcohol, refined sugar, dairy, gluten and even eggs,

But then again, I've heard too many anecdotal stories of people getting relief from Ginger, Turmeric, Oil Of Oregano, bone broth, omega 3's, probiotics and other wisely-chosen supplements (as Hopeful girl listed).

And relatively speaking, we only know a tiny bit about the microbiome.

When I was a vegan (BIG mistake), I took a supplement called "Restore4 Gut Health" which seals up the tight junction gaps in the GI tract blocking foreign proteins from creating an inflammatory response, but I now know that anti-biotics, NSAID and Prednisone contribute to leaky gut and I bet that MOST of the inflammation suppressing medications people with IBD are put on cause more harm than good.

I truly get that people who are scared out of their mind will defer 100% to an authority figure (doctor) as I did months ago when I agreed to get Entyvio infusions.
Restore4 gut health sounds like an interesting product. I am going to file that information in case I need it some time :)
During the worst of my flare up I was not able to have anything other than black tea...not even a squeeze of lemon with my tea. Everything else would violently swish through my body. It was just awful.
At diagnosis my doctor gave me two weeks to decide between Humira or Remicade and meanwhile gave me Budesenide to tide me over. The Budesenide really worked well on me. I was therefore able to have the smoothies etc and keep it in my body long enough to extract some good from it - though with my gut as damaged as it was I doubt I absorbed anything completely. I did not make my decision in two weeks and ended up staying on Budesenide for 5 months. During which time I overhauled much in my life . when I finally tapered off the Budesenide I fully expected the Crohns symptoms to return but it hasn’t for three years now. I am attributing the 5 months strict lifestyle modifications along with the steroid for the initial improvement.
 
Both my Gastroenterologist and his nurse practicioneer who have been in practice for decades refuse to believe that diet and nutrition plays a role in the treatment of Crohn's and Ulcerative Colitis.

Just the fact that so many people have vitamin and mineral deficiencies, food allergies, food sensitivities and food intolerances ALONE should be on the radar of all GI doctors.

Then you have who knows how many patients are on a high junk food with a lot of refined sugar and/or alcohol which are of course inflammatory.

I get it. Its far more profitable to prescribe medications than to alleviate suffering via simple dietary changes, but I refuse to believe that most GI doctors are "psychopaths."


Why do you think that nearly all GI doctors do not tell their patient's to make adjustments in their diet?
I can't answer that, but my was released from Emory after a 2 year stay and the doctor said " there is no diet restriction????
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Our pediatric Gi (both are one of the top pediatric ibd centers in the country )
Had us try
Crohns exclusive diet (no sugar limited wheat /red meat etc...) very long list of does and don’ts
Free of “pick a list diet “ including fodmaps
Ibd aid etc....
Exclusive enteral nutrition (een) with semi elemental
And elemental formulas for various periods of time

Prescription probiotics
Formula with prebiotics
Elimination diets

There are large nationwide nutrition studies as treatment at kiddie hospitals
Children’s if Philadelphia and Boston children’s
Like 90/10 and 80/20 for een as maintenance
Improve care now network had a nationwide study on SCD in kids woth ibd

Nutrition with kids (younger kids) is easier since parents control it
Harder for adults

Finding the right combo of foods /supplements and meds is tricky and very individualized
Since there are many different sub types of crohns
After eight years we have a decent system down for ds in terms of diet
Other autoimmune /Autoinflammatory disorders that he has require meds
Diet doesn’t stop them
 
I wanted to add a note just in case anyone is reading any of this and they find it helpful.

I am not a doctor and what worked for me may or may not work for you.

However, I will try and explain what I did and why.

When I was first diagnosed I was given two weeks to choose between 2 biologics and while that decision was being made I was put on a steroid. The steroid is like a sledgehammer, it smashes into your body with all the force of Thor on the rampage. Whatever else it did to my body, the drug did stop the diarrhea in its tracks in just 3 days. I used the reprieve from symptoms to “fix” myself the best that I knew how. Below is my thought process:

Remove irritants – hence the no grains, no dairy, no sugar, no alcohol, no coffee, no carbonated drinks etc. Anything that I thought might be contributing to irritating my gut went out.
Improve the microbiome – oregano oil, fermented foods, prebiotics
Reduce inflammation and heal gut lining – bone broth, turmeric, Boswellia, omega3, chlorophyll
Improve general health – exercise, sunshine, stress reduction, nutritious diet

The medication brought down my symptoms enough for me to have the energy and time to support my healing process. I did not use the reprieve to go back to normal life. That normal life and the balanced diet with occasional treats was what brought me to this sorry pass in the first place.

At diagnosis a scan showed 18 inches of disease. My latest colonoscopy and biopsy shows an almost completely clean gut. Initially my doctor who has no belief that anything that I could do would help, kept me on a tight leash and pushed his medications at me endlessly. I had to come in and see him frequently with 6-month blood tests for an array of markers and annual colonoscopies. Even after all my markers showed much improvement, he still tried to persuade me to go on drugs. He now believes I have recovered sufficiently to need a colonoscopy only every two years and come in for office visits only yearly. He still doesn’t believe that my choices had anything to do with the remission … surprisingly he doesn’t show any curiosity as to how I got here....

An acquaintance of mine was diagnosed within a few months of myself. I don’t see him often or even chat much. I met him recently at a dinner party after a long time. He took the biologic route. When I met him, he had aged and was almost like a semi invalid. Half way through the meal, he had to go upstairs to lie down. It was so sad to see. His circumstances and genotype will be different to mine and what works for me may not work for him but still I wish he had used more common sense in the way he treated his body. After all it is the patient not the GI or the drug manufacturer who has to embarrassedly get up half way through a meal because he is too sick.
 
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my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
Hopeful girl your friend may not be on the right med combo or diet med combo
Biologics have healed my kiddos gut /joints /
I could say it was diet alone
But for him it wasn’t
Had to stop biologic due to a surgery (non ibd related )
When they were stopped he got sick fast (even with diet )
He does not look sickly and doesn’t need to rest through a meal
They have helped him a lot
Each person is different
This disease is evil because while diet can and does work for some
For others meds work
And a few select special folks need both diet and meds

I am so happy you found a fix for your crohns
That has worked so well for you
That is the goal
Whether that is med and /or diet
We all want a happy healthy intestine /body
 

my little penguin

Moderator
Staff member
For those looking for diet
Crohns dad did a lot of research on this before diet was thought to play a role at all

Has some very interesting research prior to his death

 

my little penguin

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Dietary Therapy With the Crohn's Disease Exclusion Diet is a Successful Strategy for Induction of Remission in Children and Adults Failing Biological Therapy.
Sigall Boneh R, et al. J Crohns Colitis. 2017.
Show full citation
Abstract
Background: Loss of response [LoR] to biologics in Crohn's disease [CD] is a significant clinical problem. Dietary therapy as a treatment strategy in this setting has not been previously reported. We report the use of dietary strategies using enteral nutrition coupled with the Crohn's Disease Exclusion Diet [CDED] for LoR to infliximab or adalimumab as a single-centre experience.
Methods: Patients with LoR to a biologic despite dose escalation or combination therapy were treated with partial enteral nutrition [PEN] by a polymeric formula and the CDED for 12 weeks. Paediatric patients with severe flares received 14 days of exclusive enteral nutrition followed by PEN + CDED as above. All patients were seen at weeks 6 and 12 for follow up. Current and prior treatment, Harvey Bradshaw Index [HBI], C-reactive protein [CRP] and albumin were recorded. Remission was defined as HBI <5 at week 6.
Results: Twenty-one patients, mean age 22.1 ± 8.9 years [11 adults and ten children] met study criteria. Seventeen patients [81%] had used combination therapy, and 10/21 [47.6%] had failed a second biologic. Seven patients had a prior intestinal resection. Dose escalation had failed in 13/21 [62%] patients. Clinical remission by physician's global assessment and HBI after 6 weeks was obtained in 13/21 [61.9%]. Mean HBI decreased from 9.4 ± 4.2 to 2.6 ± 3.8 [p < 0.001], mean CRP decreased from 2.8 ± 3.4 to 0.7 ± 0.5 [p = 0.005] and mean albumin increased from 3.5 ± 0.6 to 3.8 ± 0.5 [p = 0.06].
Conclusion: Dietary treatment combining PEN with the CDED may be a useful salvage regimen for patients failing biological therapy despite dose escalation.
Copyright © 2017 European Crohn’s and Colitis Organisation (ECCO). Published by Oxford University Press. All rights reserved. For permissions, please email: [email protected]
PMID
28525622 [Indexed for MEDLINE]

Thread on crohns exclusive diet that was studied in Europe

 
I agree with MLP. My son has more energy and is absorbing his food since starting on biologics. He was taking natural supplements prior to biologics but it didn't even make a dent. He is still taking Omega 3, probiotics, fish oil, zinc, multi-vitamin, iron, glucosomine but these alone will not help his crohn's fully. He also doesn't drink caffeine, carbonated beverages, and alcohol. I think most people require a cocktail of medication, diet, supplements, and a lifestyle that helps deal with stress.
 
I don’t want to get into a straw man argument here. No one would ever say that dietary changes ALONE can put Crohn’s into remission for EVERYONE. That would be untrue – and an irresponsible thing to say.

The point I am trying to make, is that I had to fight my doctors to just postpone drug therapy and try out something else first despite the fact that going by the blood work and my symptoms the “something else” was working. I am not some kind of “tie and dye hippie” with any kind of axe to grind against modern technology or medicine. I embrace modern medicine. However, I feel right now the research is extremely one sided.

I was told that biologics were the ONLY option and that diet will not make a difference. The exact words were “there is no evidence that diet makes a difference”. My question is whether, despite all the personal anecdotes, is anyone actually LOOKING for evidence? How will you find evidence if you don’t look for it? Is there any funding for research into cheaper and more natural ways of controlling disease? Do regular doctors even look at the findings of alternative therapies – even if only as a basis for further scientific investigations? I don’t think there is enough of that going on right now.

I am not unique. There are people going into hospitals and having lab manufactured liquids discharged into their blood vessels on a regular basis for years who may have benefited from an alternative approach. Again, for the “skim over” readers – most people will probably still require some level of drug intervention. My point is that we need more research on natural and cheaper methods that can decrease the necessity for drugs at least in some percentage of patients.

I feel that as patients we deserve better than taking random supplements or cutting out foods based on Google searches and guesses. We need to know precisely what helps, what does not and who it helps and who it does not help.

If I had done everything just as my GI told me too, I would have been unnecessarily and very expensively caught in a hospital dependent nightmare involving side effects, self-injections, travel problems, IVs, frequent doctor visits etc. for decades.

If even a small percentage – just 10% of people with this diagnosis can benefit from lifestyle modifications alone, they should be afforded that opportunity. They should not be told that “there is no evidence that diet makes a difference”. If the rest can benefit to some extent at least, even if they don’t go into full remission, they should be helped to do so as part of “standard of care” and not left to try things out on their own or dependent on the personal preferences of whichever GI they happened to go to. Drugs should not be the ONLY tool in the GI toolkit.

So back to the title of this thread “Why don’t GI doctors take the role of diet seriously?”

I wonder if they would they take a different approach if they became a patient themselves?
 
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I don’t want to get into a straw man argument here. No one would ever say that dietary changes ALONE can put Chron’s into remission for EVERYONE. That would be untrue – and an irresponsible thing to say.

The point I am trying to make, is that I had to fight my doctors to just postpone drug therapy and try out something else first despite the fact that going by the blood work and my symptoms the “something else” was working. I am not some kind of “tie and dye hippie” with any kind of axe to grind against modern technology or medicine. I embrace modern medicine. However, I feel right now the research is extremely one sided.

I was told that biologics were the ONLY option and that diet will not make a difference. The exact words were “there is no evidence that diet makes a difference”. My question is whether, despite all the personal anecdotes, is anyone actually LOOKING for evidence? How will you find evidence if you don’t look for it? Is there any funding for research into cheaper and more natural ways of controlling disease? Do regular doctors even look at the findings of alternative therapies – even if only as a basis for further scientific investigations? I don’t think there is enough of that going on right now.

I am not unique. There are people going into hospitals and having lab manufactured liquids discharged into their blood vessels on a regular basis for years who may have benefited from an alternative approach. Again, for the “skim over” readers – most people will probably still require some level of drug intervention. My point is that we need more research on natural and cheaper methods that can decrease the necessity for drugs at least in some percentage of patients.

I feel that as patients we deserve better than taking random supplements or cutting out foods based on Google searches and guesses. We need to know precisely what helps, what does not and who it helps and who it does not help.

If I had done everything just as my GI told me too, I would have been unnecessarily and very expensively caught in a hospital dependent nightmare involving side effects, self-injections, travel problems, IVs, frequent doctor visits etc. for decades.

If even a small percentage – just 10% of people with this diagnosis can benefit from lifestyle modifications alone, they should be afforded that opportunity. They should not be told that “there is no evidence that diet makes a difference”. If the rest can benefit to some extent at least, even if they don’t go into full remission, they should be helped to do so as part of “standard of care” and not left to try things out on their own or dependent on the personal preferences of whichever GI they happened to go to. Drugs should not be the ONLY tool in the GI toolkit.

So back to the title of this thread “Why don’t GI doctors take the role of diet seriously?”

I wonder if they would they take a different approach if they became a patient themselves?
Thank you so much for being blunt. I also believe that there is a time and place for medicine IF there is no other choice;If all possibilities have been explored and I broke my own rules by being fearful enough to get three loading infusions of Entyvio instead of using my common sense logic.

I have read some absolutely incredible posts on this forum, but it seems that too many people automatically give most of their decisions over to authority figures who are usually intentionally and willfully ignorant and have to answer to their medical associations and their investment portfolio.

And some doctors and NPs are not as nice out of office as they are in office;Some are people of low character just like any other person.

My current GI and his NP are not big into following up and instead seem to rely on the medication doing most of the work.
During my last visit, my GI doc basically said that "I'm doing far too much research into my condition" (paraphrased) which was an incredible insult because I've HAD to do a LOT of research as I had next to zero guidance from my GI doc's office as far as stress, diet and most of my symptoms go PLUS I was not given enough information (at the time) by the NP who scared me into getting the Entyvio (nothing about possible cancer or liver failure and making it out that IF I did not get the biologic, THEN I MIGHT have to get surgery down the line.

I'm going to have to go through a long list GI doctors and it disgusts me that (probably) most of these arrogant people refuse to take diet and stress into consideration as major contributors to IBS and IBD, when there are a couple dozen fields of medicine which strongly advise patients to make dietary changes, even though they're often not that wise.

I heard one You Tube channel owner, "Heal Your Gut Guy" state flat out that GI doctors get a percent of the cost of their patient's treatment when they are on biologics.


"I am not unique. There are people going into hospitals and having lab manufactured liquids discharged into their blood vessels on a regular basis for years who may have benefited from an alternative approach. Again, for the “skim over” readers – most people will probably still require some level of drug intervention. My point is that we need more research on natural and cheaper methods that can decrease the necessity for drugs at least in some percentage of patients.

If patients in all fields of medicine were given FULL informed consent n their treatment(s) and alternatives, there would be a lot more healthy people which is not profitable of course.

As psychopatic as SOME doctors are, pharmaceutical reps must be a rare type of cold-blooded person.


"I feel that as patients we deserve better than taking random supplements or cutting out foods based on Google searches and guesses. We need to know precisely what helps, what does not and who it helps and who it does not help."

I've had to research Stettoreah, blood and mucous in the stool, fatigue, chills, fever, tons of stuff on Entyvio and Prednisone, IV Iron, the Carnivore diet (I can not digest vegetable matter at all for now), how dairy and/or eggs can contribute to inflammation for people with IBD, how anti-biotics and steroids CONTRIBUTE to leaky gut, how stress aggravates IBD to name just a few things, and I do not want to THINK what people have had to go through from the GI doctors at the group I go to here in Buffalo, NY over the last couple of decades.

Doctors have their time and place. Duh! But again, outside of trauma or some other kind of emergency, patients should be given full informed consent, but in this world that's basically an ideological fantasy.

Thanks very much for your take on this. Its refreshing.
 
I believe diet plays a role in management of Crohns - I've seen it with my son. One gastro we were under was very pro-diet and put him on a FODMAP diet. We followed this quite strictly, and while doing so, it was the best period of health our son has ever had since his diagnosis. Over this period, he was on Asacol ONLY.

It seems like more than coincidence that after 18months of 'manageable' crohns (study/part time work) while following a FODMAP diet, folded when dietary changes occurred ???

No such thing as a Crohns diet for sure, but it has to play a role in the health of those with IBD, as diet does with the health of us all
 
"I heard one You Tube channel owner, "Heal Your Gut Guy" state flat out that GI doctors get a percent of the cost of their patient's treatment when they are on biologics."


That's flat out false. Any US doc or drug company that participated in a kick-back scheme like that would both be guilty of a felony.

And whether the docs prescribes the company's drug or not, any payments (including legal payments such as consulting fees or for research) that a drug company pays to a doctor who has prescribing authority must be publically reported under applicable federal Sunshine Laws - right down to and including a payment or benefit as small as buying the doctor's nurse and office receptionist a pizza for lunch.
 
Snitzer1 - I know you feel that you have not had good experiences with doctors, but there are doctors who really do care about their patients. I agree that diet isn't a strong point with the majority of them, but I believe when they are prescribing medications, they are doing what they believe is best for their patient(s). It would be wonderful if alternative medicine and today's medicine would join forces to combine recommendation of natural supplements, specific diet for each person's crohn's and medication. But as it is, we have to figure it out on our own.
 
Thank you so much for being blunt. I also believe that there is a time and place for medicine IF there is no other choice;If all possibilities have been explored and I broke my own rules by being fearful enough to get three loading infusions of Entyvio instead of using my common sense logic.

I have read some absolutely incredible posts on this forum, but it seems that too many people automatically give most of their decisions over to authority figures who are usually intentionally and willfully ignorant and have to answer to their medical associations and their investment portfolio.

And some doctors and NPs are not as nice out of office as they are in office;Some are people of low character just like any other person.

My current GI and his NP are not big into following up and instead seem to rely on the medication doing most of the work.
During my last visit, my GI doc basically said that "I'm doing far too much research into my condition" (paraphrased) which was an incredible insult because I've HAD to do a LOT of research as I had next to zero guidance from my GI doc's office as far as stress, diet and most of my symptoms go PLUS I was not given enough information (at the time) by the NP who scared me into getting the Entyvio (nothing about possible cancer or liver failure and making it out that IF I did not get the biologic, THEN I MIGHT have to get surgery down the line.

I'm going to have to go through a long list GI doctors and it disgusts me that (probably) most of these arrogant people refuse to take diet and stress into consideration as major contributors to IBS and IBD, when there are a couple dozen fields of medicine which strongly advise patients to make dietary changes, even though they're often not that wise.

I heard one You Tube channel owner, "Heal Your Gut Guy" state flat out that GI doctors get a percent of the cost of their patient's treatment when they are on biologics.


"I am not unique. There are people going into hospitals and having lab manufactured liquids discharged into their blood vessels on a regular basis for years who may have benefited from an alternative approach. Again, for the “skim over” readers – most people will probably still require some level of drug intervention. My point is that we need more research on natural and cheaper methods that can decrease the necessity for drugs at least in some percentage of patients.

If patients in all fields of medicine were given FULL informed consent n their treatment(s) and alternatives, there would be a lot more healthy people which is not profitable of course.

As psychopatic as SOME doctors are, pharmaceutical reps must be a rare type of cold-blooded person.


"I feel that as patients we deserve better than taking random supplements or cutting out foods based on Google searches and guesses. We need to know precisely what helps, what does not and who it helps and who it does not help."

I've had to research Stettoreah, blood and mucous in the stool, fatigue, chills, fever, tons of stuff on Entyvio and Prednisone, IV Iron, the Carnivore diet (I can not digest vegetable matter at all for now), how dairy and/or eggs can contribute to inflammation for people with IBD, how anti-biotics and steroids CONTRIBUTE to leaky gut, how stress aggravates IBD to name just a few things, and I do not want to THINK what people have had to go through from the GI doctors at the group I go to here in Buffalo, NY over the last couple of decades.

Doctors have their time and place. Duh! But again, outside of trauma or some other kind of emergency, patients should be given full informed consent, but in this world that's basically an ideological fantasy.

Thanks very much for your take on this. Its refreshing.
Interesting to hear your experience. I too felt that I was being rushed into making choices that I was not ready to make. As I said, I was given two weeks to choose between two biologics and return to the hospital. They even fixed my return appointment before I left. I think the two weeks were for me to contact my insurance and see what they would pay for. I was also told that if I don’t start treatment immediately I could end up with surgeries etc. Hey, I most likely had Crohn’s for at least a year before diagnosis – why so much rush? It’s not like anything was about to explode in my gut. This whole process stinks.

When I got home that day from the doctors office, still in shock from hearing that for the rest of my life I would be managing a serious illness, I had a call from the pharmacy to talk to me about options on delivery. Shortly after, some kind of service affiliated to my insurance called me to let me know that I could have a nurse available to talk to if at any time I had questions on my medications. I know that a lot of people would find this very supportive, but I have never had a major illness before and to me it seemed like the vultures were circling my newly diagnosed head with $ signs in their eyes. It scared the living daylights out of me

What doctors need to understand is that even if there were NO side effects at all to these therapies, it still has a huge detrimental impact on your lifestyle. You have to give yourself injections, drugs have to be maintained at certain temperatures, you will need much more frequent doctors visits, sick days, travel will have to be planned around your drug therapy not around what you actually want to do. On top of that there are all the “minor” side effects like rashes, weight gain, fatigue, colds then of course all the low probability but major side effects like cancer or liver failure. And when the drug eventually stops working and it usually does, you have to go on something else which will screw up your already messed up insides in novel ways. Going on one of these therapies is a serious commitment for the patient. A person should be given as much time, information and support as they need to decide what course of action to take. Not just two weeks with no information on alternatives and a “better do as I say or else….” Of course if it turns out that you need to go on drug therapy to control your disease then you need to do that, but do so mindfully so you don’t regret your choice when its too late to do anything about it.

I am not questioning anyone’s motives or competence, but as a patient I feel that our current system could stand a little improvement.

Snitzer1, I had no idea that doctors get a portion of the cost of treatment on biologics. I would double check that information though – it seems like something that would be illegal – if it’s not, it should be!! Didn’t the Sunshine Act clean up a lot of the drug company gifts to physicians? This might be outdated information?

There are a lot of snake oil salesman and charlatans in the natural therapy world too. Unfortunately, too many people out there are trying to make a quick buck out of the sick and vulnerable.

Whatever your GI says, do all the research you need to Snitzer1 – at the end of the day its your butt on the line – figuratively and literally 😊
 
The first thing my gi did was give me some info on how diet might affect my disease, it was pretty basic though. But the SCD diet has been ignored for a while until a few years ago it was finally reviewed in studies to be helpful, its more complicated to follow though. my tips- eliminate refined sugar and lactose, eat whole grains, but corn and rice are iffy. just a few tips ive learned over the years but SCD doesn't advise grains like wheat and oats but they are super beneficial i have found.
 
The first thing my gi did was give me some info on how diet might affect my disease, it was pretty basic though. But the SCD diet has been ignored for a while until a few years ago it was finally reviewed in studies to be helpful, its more complicated to follow though. my tips- eliminate refined sugar and lactose, eat whole grains, but corn and rice are iffy. just a few tips ive learned over the years but SCD doesn't advise grains like wheat and oats but they are super beneficial i have found.
I am glad to hear that you have benefited from the specific carbohydrate diet, Wildbill. Corn and rice are grasses and filled with anti-nutrients, but when people have white rice (no husk and zero fiber & nutrients) they have no problems digesting them.

Do you soak your oats in a diluted apple cider vinegar solution before making them?

I'm also glad to hear that your GI doctor had the decency to give you some basic dietary advice.

Please look into anti-nutrients and how they affect every system in our body.
 
Interesting to hear your experience. I too felt that I was being rushed into making choices that I was not ready to make. As I said, I was given two weeks to choose between two biologics and return to the hospital. They even fixed my return appointment before I left. I think the two weeks were for me to contact my insurance and see what they would pay for. I was also told that if I don’t start treatment immediately I could end up with surgeries etc. Hey, I most likely had Crohn’s for at least a year before diagnosis – why so much rush? It’s not like anything was about to explode in my gut. This whole process stinks.

When I got home that day from the doctors office, still in shock from hearing that for the rest of my life I would be managing a serious illness, I had a call from the pharmacy to talk to me about options on delivery. Shortly after, some kind of service affiliated to my insurance called me to let me know that I could have a nurse available to talk to if at any time I had questions on my medications. I know that a lot of people would find this very supportive, but I have never had a major illness before and to me it seemed like the vultures were circling my newly diagnosed head with $ signs in their eyes. It scared the living daylights out of me

What doctors need to understand is that even if there were NO side effects at all to these therapies, it still has a huge detrimental impact on your lifestyle. You have to give yourself injections, drugs have to be maintained at certain temperatures, you will need much more frequent doctors visits, sick days, travel will have to be planned around your drug therapy not around what you actually want to do. On top of that there are all the “minor” side effects like rashes, weight gain, fatigue, colds then of course all the low probability but major side effects like cancer or liver failure. And when the drug eventually stops working and it usually does, you have to go on something else which will screw up your already messed up insides in novel ways. Going on one of these therapies is a serious commitment for the patient. A person should be given as much time, information and support as they need to decide what course of action to take. Not just two weeks with no information on alternatives and a “better do as I say or else….” Of course if it turns out that you need to go on drug therapy to control your disease then you need to do that, but do so mindfully so you don’t regret your choice when its too late to do anything about it.

I am not questioning anyone’s motives or competence, but as a patient I feel that our current system could stand a little improvement.

Snitzer1, I had no idea that doctors get a portion of the cost of treatment on biologics. I would double check that information though – it seems like something that would be illegal – if it’s not, it should be!! Didn’t the Sunshine Act clean up a lot of the drug company gifts to physicians? This might be outdated information?

There are a lot of snake oil salesman and charlatans in the natural therapy world too. Unfortunately, too many people out there are trying to make a quick buck out of the sick and vulnerable.

Whatever your GI says, do all the research you need to Snitzer1 – at the end of the day its your butt on the line – figuratively and literally 😊
I have zero proof if Gastroenterologists actually get a cut of the IV and injectable biologics that they prescribe, but to be honest, I would not be surprise. I do not mean to sound bitter, but reading your post reminded me of how the NP pushed the Entyvio (with the big pharama explanation) as if it was crucial to avoid possible surgery yet she also stated that it can take as long as six-months to begin working (if it works).

I get that patients have to do some of their own research, but its the doctor's responsibility TO speak up about the possibility of the side-effects you listed and for some of the biologics, there is the risk of PML.

And in a sad, sick way, its possible that biologics and the standard immunosuppressants side-effects can result in a patient eventually requiring surgery.

And you are 100% correct as far as there being PLENTY of alternative medicine practicioners who are snake oil salesman and charlatans.

And there are MANY well-meaning people who parrot what they see, watch and read which influences others who trust the word of someone who sounds like they are intelligent and well-researched. I have heard HUNDREDS of pseudo-intellectuals in You Tube videos like this when I was vegan (which caused my flareup which is in its eighth month now.

I really appreciate your take on this. Thanks.

When I got my first loading dose of Entyvio, a girl to my right who was also getting was handed the professional-looking Takeda Pharmaceutical brochure for Entyvio and she stated that she was too scared to read up on the possible side-effects, and your post got me thinking how the lack of thoroughness and followup by GI doctors in and of itself has an adverse effect not only on the patient's body, but also their mind as far as compounding pre-existing trauma from their GI and other physical problems and any pre-existing traumas they had.

PLUS, its very common for antibiotics to cause depression and/or panic attacks, a class of drugs which all GI doctors probably prescribe.
Sorry if I stated some of this already.

I'll be going to a local Western New York Crohn's & Colitis foundation meeting at the end of the month to ask people if they can recommend a GI doctor who is thorough, respectful and open-minded.
 
Snitzer - you may need to have a look at your carnivore diet somewhat. Speaking as a fellow carnivore, those oxalates that you mention are pretty prominent in meat protein. They can contribute (and in my case have definitely done so) to kidney stone formation. Us crohnies absorb oxalate at a greater rate than those without crohn's, so too much meat can be a recipe for stones. Over the last 5 years, I have had probably 10 trips to emerg for stones, 2 lithotrypsies and a far more aggressive procedure to remove a 2cm stone in my left kidney. It was recommended that I supplement calcium and citrus (lemon or grapefruit) juice to bind up oxalate before it can be picked up by my digestive tract.

Aside from that, my guts needed a combination of remicade and azathioprine in order to get to remission after 25 years of active crohn's (6 surgeries, 8 resections, over 30 strictureplasties). Diet didn't do it for me!
 
Snitzer - you may need to have a look at your carnivore diet somewhat. Speaking as a fellow carnivore, those oxalates that you mention are pretty prominent in meat protein. They can contribute (and in my case have definitely done so) to kidney stone formation. Us crohnies absorb oxalate at a greater rate than those without crohn's, so too much meat can be a recipe for stones. Over the last 5 years, I have had probably 10 trips to emerg for stones, 2 lithotrypsies and a far more aggressive procedure to remove a 2cm stone in my left kidney. It was recommended that I supplement calcium and citrus (lemon or grapefruit) juice to bind up oxalate before it can be picked up by my digestive tract.

Aside from that, my guts needed a combination of remicade and azathioprine in order to get to remission after 25 years of active crohn's (6 surgeries, 8 resections, over 30 strictureplasties). Diet didn't do it for me!
What types of foods have you had on the Carnivore diet? A lot of dairy and eggs? Have you eaten low-carb vegetables and/or fruits and if so, were they raw or steamed?

Please leave a link or two for how the Carnivore diet is high in oxalates (red meat).
I know that Spinach and Chard are near the top of the list.

When I stopped my vegan diet and went to an all animal diet (almost immediately) I now know that after nearly three-years of my vegan diet that I was dumping oxalates while having my Crohhn's flare while having the side-effects of Prednisone and so on.

I have read up a lot on anti-nutrients in the last seven months and oxalates are just a part of the picture.
Phytates, Saponins, Lectins, nighshades, ugh!

Have you ever had any problems with fatty stool (Steatorrhea)?

I appreciate your comments.
 
Do you soak your oats in a diluted apple cider vinegar solution before making them?
No I do not. I don't see any reason why that is necessary, where or when has it been proven to be necessary?


Please look into anti-nutrients and how they affect every system in our body.
i am aware of them, cooking either destroys them completely or reduces their quantity to such low levels it doesn't even matter and in other cases I think I read the some gut bacteria can break some of them down, but some people don't have these bacteria so they may have more issues then others.
 
So Carnivore diet is just meat only? No vegetables, no grains, no dairy, no eggs?

That’s a dogs life ! 🥴

Just joking....But hey ..you gotta do what you gotta do...
 
No I do not. I don't see any reason why that is necessary, where or when has it been proven to be necessary?



i am aware of them, cooking either destroys them completely or reduces their quantity to such low levels it doesn't even matter and in other cases I think I read the some gut bacteria can break some of them down, but some people don't have these bacteria so they may have more issues then others.
Soaking oats makes them far easier to digest and be used for energy by the body because it removes most of the phytic acid, plus it makes the oats taste much better.

The sheer libraries worth of nutrition misinformation and disinformation (thanks to some industry and government biased studies on what diet is best for human beings).

This video may give you some ideas.


I hope this helps a bit.
 
So Carnivore diet is just meat only? No vegetables, no grains, no dairy, no eggs?

That’s a dogs life ! 🥴

Just joking....But hey ..you gotta do what you gotta do...
Thank you for the laugh!

Its funny that you wrote, "its a dog's life" because I was speaking to a worker at Whole Foods yesterday who is vegan and feeds his dog a fully vegan diet.

I will reintroduce eggs in a week or two to see what happens, but until my GI tract heals (God wiling), I am avoiding milk (except for low lactose cheeses), I have heavily steamed cauliflower and broccoli and I am done with grains/grasses for the rest of my life because unless you really soak certain grains, the phytates in them bind to the minerals in the oats (for example) which prevents the absorption of Iron, Magnesium and other minerals resulting in a depletion of minerals in the body over time as our metabolism has to find SOME source of minerals to function so the body literally feeds upon itself (on a nutrient deficient diet). This is one of the ugly lessons I learned after I stopped being a vegan.
 
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