Anyone Try Fasting to Heal Crohn's?

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manatee

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Hello out there... I've been thinking about experimenting a bit by fasting once or twice a week for awhile to see if that eventually helps my Crohn's.

I think I've heard stories where some people sometimes have to go to the hospital to be fed by IV to give their guts time to heal and wondered if anyone out there has had luck with fasting?

Seems like it could help... or at the least, perhaps a liquid diet once a week?

Any thoughts?
 
Hey manatee.. I sort of fasted.. Period when it hurt so much to eat (well, to swallow to be exact) that I literally didn't eat anything... except for glasses of water to take my meds with.. that lasted for a period of weeks. I lost a lot of weight, and I lost significant ground. Anyway, by the time I got to see a GI, she was very worried about my condition... so she put me on a liquid diet. Unfortunately, they contained a lot of lactose, which I'm sensitive to. anyway, I came off of the anti-biotic I was on at the time, my cycsts decreased, and I was able to resume eating normal food. It still hurt to eat, but it was tolerable. That is when I started to regain ground... My self imposed fast may have contributed to a healing process inside, or it may have been stopping the a/b's, or it could have been just an upturn in the flare I was in at the time... I dunno, and neither do any of the docs I've seen. I wouldn't advise my methods to anyone... myself included.
It was simply that I couldn't force myself to eat at the time. I would imagine that a fast, to do any good... to rest the intestine (ileum, colon, whatever) would require a period of time... not just a day or two. I would assume (and you know what they say about 'assume'?) that a liquid diet, w/o any hard to digest 'solid' foods, could be done safely, and for a period of time that would benefit the system, if done under the supervision of a doctor or nutritionist. I don't think it should be attempted w/o medical advice. A fast of a day or two, well, it might help, but the benefits to the body of so short a rest? I dunno if that would really help at all. It seems to me that any 'possible' benefits of such a short fast would be superficial at best... I have, on occasion, switched to a liquid only diet for a day, whenever my digestive system becomes sluggish. Sort of 'nothing out, then nothing in' rule of thumb. Anyway, I'm rambling.. I'd suggest you talk it over with your doctors.
 
Thanks for your reply Kev... I guess I'm pretty much screwed until I can get insurance. All I have now is a high deductible which means if I go to the doctor I'll pretty much be bankrupt. Sigh... maybe I should go rob a pharmacy so I can get some prednisone... lol
 
fasting

I try fasting when I feel I could get sick or I feel I went off "my" diet. I can't make it through a full day fast but I try to skip two meals and just drink broth or a lot of tea. I am a little overweight so I can afford a weekly fast. I am not sure what your needs are.

I try to follow the Maker's Diet and Rubin suggests a weekly fast. I don't fast regularly but I do when I think I need it. It always helps me.
 
Hi Manatee,

One of the signs of having Crohn's can be weight loss due to not eating as you cannot cope with it...

Fasting without some form of nutritional support only damages your body in the long run. If you dont give your body the building blocks of nutrition how do you expect it to heal and repair itself??

Further down on this part of the site you will see threads about elemental diet. This is a liquid diet that is designed to be absorbed in the first metre of the small bowel so you get the nutrition on board AND the rest of your gut gets a rest and a chance to heal too. Generally most adults are on elemental for 2-3 wks when commenced on it by their GI and unders supervision of a gastro dietitian. Some places like Japan for instance put ALL their patients on it as a background supplementation.

I understand things are difficult on the insurance front and its ok for me here in the UK to say these things when you have finances to take into account....

All I am trying to say is please be careful you dont end up sicker by decreasing your nutritional status further as so many of us are deficient already. A couple of days a week fasting wont do much to heal your gut would be my thought and would also compound your exhaustion etc too resulting in you feeling even worse.

Hope you get to see a GI soon and get some relief soon too.

Thinking of you.
 
In my religion we are required to fast for a month for the whole day till sunset. When I got diagnosed with Crohn's 7 years ago, I stopped fasting as I was losing weight and was very weak if I didn't eat. But a few years ago when I was in remission, I tried fasting again , and after a week, my symptoms all returned and I was having lots of pain.

So from my experience, and through I read, it's not recommended for somebody with Crohn's to fast. But maybe you can try and elemental or liquid diet. I never tried it, but I know it needs professional supervision

I hope this helps.
 
Yeah i can vouch (sp?) for the elemental diet! Im on it as we speak! ALWAYS works for me, you kinda get the best of both worlds, the rest for your gut, yet all your nutritinal needs. It works wonders for my fistulas too! Infact im at my MOST healthy (Feeling wise, and medically) when im on the elemental. I think because its got all the right ammounts of Vits and Mins, your actually getting the IDEAL diet possible. I get bags of energy, (usually i would have to nap throughtout the day because i was so tired, but now i never even feel that tired) It REALLY is worth a go, after the 1st 2 weeks thats when i really start to notice the improvements. It is hard as hell (in terms of not being able to eat) but surely its worth it to feel better?
I saw a new Gastro doctor when i was in hospital recently, and he didnt seem as enthusiastic about it, he said from his experience most people have a flare as soon as they reintroduce, and that is a problem iv had in the past. So this time we're gonna be MUCH more careful about reintroducing.
As for fasting.... I was having a bad flare once and was hospitalised, they made me fast and put me on IV fluids and within 24 hours i felt miles better,and the flare just seemed to dissapear! But i think that was more luck then anything, coz ive tried it since and it doesnt really work! lol!
Hope you find something that works for you!
 
Whenever I've fasted, it's usually been just to reduce the amount of diarrhea because of a job or something where I couldn't be going to the bathroom all the time. But I can't say that helped the Crohn's condition overall. In fact, a lot of the time, not eating would actually make the pain worse.

Just going to your doctor to get some prescription meds shouldn't cost too much, not like the ER or hospital. And Prednisone is very cheap. It might be worth it to go ahead and see the GI and see about getting some Pred. He may want to put you on other meds also, but tell him your situation, and that you just want to start off on Pred right now.
 
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I will do a liquid diet for a day or two after I've eaten foods I shouldn't -- chicken broth and or a smoothie. That usually helps, but I've never done a long term fast.
 
They have me on a medically supervised liquid diet (HMR is the brand name) because I need to lose weight (I know, I'm one of the few with Crohn's who needs to lose weight) and it really makes my Crohn's areas feel better. I think it does indeed give the gut a chance to rest. However, this is a medically supervised program with additional dietary supplements -- it's not really something to mess around with on your own.
 
Very good point Cara! By most definitions I've heard, fasting is abstaining from food. Water is allowed. A liquid diet is not per se a fast (by hard definition). Definitely it's not something that one should experiment with. switching to a liquid diet under the care/supervision of a doctor is one thing, cutting out all foods willy nilly is really a bad idea WHEN you are chronically/acutely/critically ill (excepting for those undertaken as part of one's religious beliefs - those are purely between you and your maker, etc..)
 
I fast all the time, due to pain and such. it works well for inflamation, but causes weight loss and what-not which is what none of us need. I suggest trying to go to a liquid diet for a few days first, if you still hurt, then do fasting.
I used to just go and get some pred, but for me now pred always seems to cause a rectal abscess.
regardless, I suggest talking to your doc first before changing your diet like this.
 
The liquid diet works well for me and seems to keep the whole mess settled down. However, I DO need to lose weight, which I am doing. They do have some protein powders and bodybuilders' meal replacements which should give you a liquid diet while adding weight.
 
Dekar said:
I need to constantly eat, or I feel so bad.
Click to expand...

Agreed, if i dont eat at least every 3 hours i start to feel like my stomach is eating itself...
 
Kev said:
My goof... I was posing that question to Darryl
Click to expand...

Well i spent the last year Pred free, so its not the Pred, and Imuran doesnt change my appetite, but mainly i think because i workout so much and my metabolism is through the roof my body just cant function without constant calorie intake...like if i dont eat within an hour of waking up in the morning i start to feel like i am going to puke
 
Fasting

Well i have tried fasting and it doesn't really work you just get weaker and you have very little energy. I have figured out with me that it isnt really what you eat it is how healthy you are and how fast food goes through your system. My crohn's is different though i don't have soft stools.

Alot of people think it is what you eat that is true for the most part but it is also how healthy you are and how fast it goes through your system. I have tried every method of battling crohns and now I am 90% healthy due to 4 bottles of beer a week. How you ask can I do this well the beer speeds up my bowls so it set my whole system on high stuff goes through faster and it takes a couple of days where my system does not regulate. Dont get me wrong I would not try this if you are not healthy or at a stable level i should say.

I did post a year ago about ginseng was helping and it does I was very healthy when I would get sick and take meth it sped up my system but long term it is not good. I have messed around for 3 years to figure out what worked and what didnt to help cure my crohns and I have found the speed of your digestive system is the key for me.
 
I don't even work out. God knows what it is but everyone saying how they can't eat cus it hurts baffles me. I'm COMPLETELY the opposite. Not eating hurts.

Maybe a hint to 2 types of crohns? :p
 
I think that the disease, being opportunistic by nature, manifests itself in various ways.. I mean, if two people were swarmed by bees, the location and severity of the stings could be vastly diffferent... even if the bees were from the very same hive. it's a terrible oversimplification of complex, multi faceted disease, but I like the analogy.
 
Hi,
I did fasting for 38 days (no food) and with the change in diet, I conquered Crohn's disease (now it's >7months and no symptoms, approved by doctors). The major problem with fasting is free will to do that. First day you feel miserable. Drinking a lot of herb teas helps to fool your stomach so you are not hungry. Up to ~fifths day, several inconveniences emerge (nausea, sleepiness, tiredness).
But after these ~5 days, your body switches to a self-digestive regime, which is quite natural and the body understand it needs to save energy, vitamins, minerals etc. This is in a high contrast with malnutrition where you miss several nutrients and your body expects food. Normally, you can fast 40 days in this self-digestive regime without irreversible damage.
During the self-digestion, the body attacks primarily damaged tissue - it does not need them. You stomach does not produce acid. Your intestines almost stop the peristaltic movement. Imunity rises up significantly etc. All these miraculous things happen. No pill exist to invoke this mechanism.
 
When I was diagnosed in the '80's, I was fasted for a week and half. I was on an IV and was told to drink as much orange juice as I could.

That was then and this is now.

I've heard quite a lot about the elemental diet and it sounds very good.
 
There is a lot of reports showing that the elemental diet is perfect during the application. However, patients usually recover inflammation after a couple of weeks when they stop the diet. Many doctors explain it as an allergic reaction. "Primitive" food, prepared by simple technologies using natural resources and without allergens, seems to work also fine for me.
 
just wanted to add a note here - anyone who is contemplating dietary regimes, particularly fasting, which they've read on this forum is strongly recommended to ask advice from their health carer before embarking on these practices.
 
i had to fast for 7 days due to severe ulcers down my throat, no food at all, i lost nearly a stone in weight then after, because my stomach shrunk, i lost a further stone and a half, i would defo not recommend this
 
I've been told by some people that fasting actually helps crohn's. As for me...well I don't see myself being able to do it. I stay hungry all the time!!!
 
When I was admitted to the hospital I was put on bland diet. Really that meants only clear liquids...no solids what so ever. i did notice that I didnt feel the need to releive as much, but I still went a lot(then again I had not treatment so that didnt help) It wasn't until I got some prednisone that my system really began to slow down, but it took awhile to finally reach a point which was suitable...then I weaned off prednisone and lialda didnt hold me so I was put on 6mp and that held me for awhile until I hit a period of stress that sent me into a wirlwind flare. Waiting for my next appointment to see where to go from here
 
DarrylP_Ajax said:
Agreed, if i dont eat at least every 3 hours i start to feel like my stomach is eating itself...
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I eat every three hours due to heartburn. In fact i am sure my heartburn issues started because of "missing" two meals. if I wait longer I causes massive stomach aches.
 
A more effective way to accomlish the same thing would be an elemental diet. Liquid cans that are elemental will accomplish the same thing, however you will be fully nourished. To heal takes energy. Your body needs calories for energy. If it doesn't have these calorie sources for energy while you fast, it will make for a longer recovery. Just my opinion. Good luck.

P.S elemental diet has saved me countless times. 4-6 weeks elemental diet will pull me out of a flare 8 out of 10 times.
 
Fasting is good because it gives your intestines a rest and helps detox your body. I have been fasting for religious reasons for about 2 weeks now, and I haven't experienced any problems. I think everyone knows what their body can and can't tolerate, so do it at your own risk.
 
I've been experimenting with fasting ...just one day a week. At first it was hard, but now it's easier. I still get burning pain in my stomach during a fast.
 
bella2 said:
Fasting is good because it gives your intestines a rest and helps detox your body. I have been fasting for religious reasons for about 2 weeks now, and I haven't experienced any problems. I think everyone knows what their body can and can't tolerate, so do it at your own risk.
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I have been wondering about fasting for religious reasons but with me having CD my wife is scared for me to fast.

2
 
warn81 said:
I've been experimenting with fasting ...just one day a week. At first it was hard, but now it's easier. I still get burning pain in my stomach during a fast.
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Have you had a recent endoscopy? You may have ulceration that's being aggrivated by the stomach's behavior in a fasted state.

Try a capful of apple cider vinegar in 1L of water. If that doesn't help try a pinch of baking soda in 1L of water.

My research into fasting shows that it can have a lot of benefits to Crohn's beyond just bowel rest.

Fasting upregulates the production of gut serotonin which is shown to have healing and anti-inflammatory properties. It spikes at the 48 hour mark.

Fasting upregulates catecholamines in general such as noepinepharine (I probably butchered that), serotonin, dopamine, etc. Most patients with Crohn's and other physiological or mental disorders will have an imbalance of these neurotransmitters. Rebalancing of serotonin-dopamine levels has been shown effective in treating Crohn's in some patients.

Fasting can starve out pathogenic gut bacteria that may have been feeding on sugars in your diet to survive, including h. pylori, klebsiella, candida, e.coli and others common to Crohn's disease.

In a fast bacteroidetes bacteria native to the gut consume intestinal mucins producing butyric acid as a byproduct, crucial to the food chain of gut bacteria that heals the gut wall - however other probiotics in the gut may diminish.

I would suggest either fasting in 16 hour gaps (I.e. eating within an 8 hour window before bed, then 0 calories the rest of the day) or 48 hours followed by several days off. At the end of the fast I would immediately begin with prebiotic fiber and probiotics, complex carbs and fats, anything sweet should be glucose rich.

Sources at bottom of page.

https://beyondtheoddsfitness.wordpr...crohns-therapies-based-on-scientific-studies/
 
InstantCoffee said:
Have you had a recent endoscopy? You may have ulceration that's being aggrivated by the stomach's behavior in a fasted state.

Try a capful of apple cider vinegar in 1L of water. If that doesn't help try a pinch of baking soda in 1L of water.

My research into fasting shows that it can have a lot of benefits to Crohn's beyond just bowel rest.

Fasting upregulates the production of gut serotonin which is shown to have healing and anti-inflammatory properties. It spikes at the 48 hour mark.

Fasting upregulates catecholamines in general such as noepinepharine (I probably butchered that), serotonin, dopamine, etc. Most patients with Crohn's and other physiological or mental disorders will have an imbalance of these neurotransmitters. Rebalancing of serotonin-dopamine levels has been shown effective in treating Crohn's in some patients.


Fasting can starve out pathogenic gut bacteria that may have been feeding on sugars in your diet to survive, including h. pylori, klebsiella, candida, e.coli and others common to Crohn's disease.

In a fast bacteroidetes bacteria native to the gut consume intestinal mucins producing butyric acid as a byproduct, crucial to the food chain of gut bacteria that heals the gut wall - however other probiotics in the gut may diminish.


I would suggest either fasting in 16 hour gaps (I.e. eating within an 8 hour window before bed, then 0 calories the rest of the day) or 48 hours followed by several days off. At the end of the fast I would immediately begin with prebiotic fiber and probiotics, complex carbs and fats, anything sweet should be glucose rich.

Sources at bottom of page.

https://beyondtheoddsfitness.wordpr...crohns-therapies-based-on-scientific-studies/
Click to expand...

I had an endoscopy last year. My stomach burns in the mornings. Acidic stuff like cranberry juice or alcohol makes it worse. I also have multiple food allergies. I need a new doctor. My current one is not helping much.
 
I've been trying some kind of intermittent fasting and I can't recommend it. I think it made my gastritis worse, it was gone for a while, then it became unbearable in the last few weeks even though I started eating regularly without fasting periods 2 months ago. In addition, I feel weaker, more fatigue, but that can be related to the flare-up itself as well.
 
Charlotte. said:
I've been trying some kind of intermittent fasting and I can't recommend it. I think it made my gastritis worse, it was gone for a while, then it became unbearable in the last few weeks even though I started eating regularly without fasting periods 2 months ago. In addition, I feel weaker, more fatigue, but that can be related to the flare-up itself as well.
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How long is your fast?

What do you ingest during it, if anything at all?

What do you eat when you break your fast?

Does acidic or basic food / drinks upset your stomach? Does water upset your stomach when on a fast or otherwise?

How do you handle tea or coffee?
 
InstantCoffee said:
How long is your fast?

What do you ingest during it, if anything at all?

What do you eat when you break your fast?

Does acidic or basic food / drinks upset your stomach? Does water upset your stomach when on a fast or otherwise?

How do you handle tea or coffee?
Click to expand...

It was usually 16h.

I had herbal tea (fennel, camomile),

when I broke the fast I had carrots, pumpkin, fish, sometimes tofu, green vegetables (courgette, pak choi, mangold), sometimes vegan protein powder with cocoa powder and stevia (and water to mix it). I only have cooked food, no raw food at all.

I did it for approximately three months and felt weaker and weaker as you may imagine regarding this restricted meal plan.

Acid things not only upset my stomach but it seems as it also upsets my small intestine, I can literally feel the burning in the inflamed region, at least, it feels very sore, so I don't eat olives in brine/vinegar, any vinegar, tomatoes, tomato puree etc.

I can't have any coffee and can only have herbal tea.


Any suggestions, any major mistakes?


I think, intermittent fasting might work, when you have already achieved remission by elemental diet and have reintroduced foods (e.g. with the John Hunter regimen) and know what upsets your intestines.
 
Charlotte. said:
It was usually 16h.

I had herbal tea (fennel, camomile),

when I broke the fast I had carrots, pumpkin, fish, sometimes tofu, green vegetables (courgette, pak choi, mangold), sometimes vegan protein powder with cocoa powder and stevia (and water to mix it). I only have cooked food, no raw food at all.

I did it for approximately three months and felt weaker and weaker as you may imagine regarding this restricted meal plan.

Acid things not only upset my stomach but it seems as it also upsets my small intestine, I can literally feel the burning in the inflamed region, at least, it feels very sore, so I don't eat olives in brine/vinegar, any vinegar, tomatoes, tomato puree etc.

I can't have any coffee and can only have herbal tea.


Any suggestions, any major mistakes?


I think, intermittent fasting might work, when you have already achieved remission by elemental diet and have reintroduced foods (e.g. with the John Hunter regimen) and know what upsets your intestines.
Click to expand...
You absolutely need to know what triggers you.

I'm not sure that an elemental diet is the best really, from what I understand it's good for inducing remission, but very hard to maintain coming off of it. I believe this is because the diet does a poor job of supporting our commensal gut bacteria. Meanwhile the simple sugars usually in it would feed pathogenic bacteria.

It's good for gut rest but not so good for doing what we actually need to heal - upregulating butyrate production by protecting and feeding commensal gut bacteria.

Of course, fasting is not good for upregulating scfa producing bacteria either, but it is good for taking down the bad bacteria and healing the gut if you can iron out the kinks.

I understand how hunger can lead to burning as I used to experience the same.

My suggestion is if you decided to try it again, try a pinch of baking soda in a liter of water and sip it throughout the day. The sodium will help your electrolytes and the base may help to reduce the excess stomach acids that cause burning.

You may have ulceration which could be caused by a variety of things, from h. pylori to backflow of bile (which caused mine) in which case you'll need to find what triggers it and eliminate the food.

If you can get the burning under control (I absolutely don't recommend fasting through the burning!) I would suggest picking up a prebiotic fiber blend, Fitness Fiber by ON has been really easy on my digestion. Take it immediately as you break your fast with POM juice (the potassium will help restore your electrolytes).

After your feeding window take 1 tsp of psyllium husks or seed powder before bed and gradually increase to 1 tbsp UNLESS you take oral medications around this time.

If you cannot control the burning I'm not 100% sure how to help but I still think that the psyllium and prebiotic fiber could help.

Do you experience delayed gastric emptying (peristalsis) after some meals? (Long periods of feeling full on very little food, bloating).

Do you see clouds on top of the water in BMs after certain foods (particles in swirls and clouds, greenish brown in hue).

Can you tell me what brand of vegan protein powder you use?
 
Thank you so much, InstantCoffee!

That sounds really helpful! And I agree on the aspect with the elemental, it's just a start but the most difficult part comes after that, as I experienced it in the past.

I will definitely try baking powder in my water that I drink throughout the day and see if I can gradually move my first meal back later into the day as I don't feel really well when I have some food that "early" (before noon, I'm just not really hungry). And I often feel like the food stays much longer in the stomach or maybe in the upper small intestine (?) than it should, so I feel uncomfortably full for a very long time. When I drink after meals the water even comes up its way in the oesophagus so that I can feel the cold water coming up when I pick something up from the floor or something.

Unfortunately I can't have any fructose, so no juice or any fruit at all for me (I could use apple juice instead of laxatives for a colonoscopy prep, it's just more painful and irritating than the normal prep even is). ;-)
What is that about the fiber blend. I looked it up, it looks very artificial, why is it important?
Is there a more "natural" alternative?
What about the psyllium husk powder? I tried that before but I think I did not increase it in small amounts and I could not tolerate it well. Why is that important?

I use the soy isolate protein (don't judge me please, the non-soya version is just so expensive and I used to eat bigger amounts because my diet is so limited at the moment) from Holland and Barrett (which I seem to tolerate), the Pulsin Natural Soy Protein (which I don't seem to tolerate well) and the Bodybuliding Warehouse Soy Protein Isolate (which I'm not sure about yet whether or not I tolerate it well).
If there was a cheaper hemp protein available that is not raw I should probably try that, especially as I seem to do better without (soy)protein as I haven't used it the past 3 days and I feel the food being digested faster, so it does not stay that long in the stomach (?), but I'm not quite sure if the protein powder is really the reason for that or something else.
Any suggestions on that?
 
I have done half day fast along with liquid diet and it helps keep the flare progression in check. I'll do this for a several days. For liquid diet I use Boost with protein.
 
Yeah when I was in the hospital recently I had nothing to eat, but was feed through the gains with TPN. It worked or something did.
 
I'm back on fasting as of 4/16 and it's been a miraculous turn around in just 3 days time.

No change in diet, I'm sleeping better, getting through my day better, normal bowel movements, less bathroom trips, gas or cramps.

You can't really explain that away with just bowel rest. There's definitely some complex changes that occur when you deprive the body of calories for 16+ hours a day.

I've heard some things about significant changes at the 48 hour mark in our neurotransmitters and even things like a soft resent on the immune system but I'm not sure I feel comfortable doing it without medical supervision of my micronutrient intake during that time.
 
Hi

Im ken from belgium 35 years old.
I have sibo and probally ibd now.
2.5 years ago i had food poisoning and that triggered sibo.
Im 100% sure that the theory of dr pimentel is correct.
The toxins of campylobacter cdtb toxin have the same structure as the protein vinculin.
Vinculin is the motility migrating motor complex of the gut. The migrating motor complec is attacked for us.. That gave me sibo. If i take probiotics, i get worse. They ferment foods high up small intestine where absorption should take place and not fermantation.

I took rifaximin for sibo and sibo improved dramaticly. Altough i think it gave a worse imbalance and killed a lot of good.
After rifaximin i got gastritis in stomach, wich is even more difficult in diet. No foods lower then ph5. With this ibs.. interstitial cystitis also came wich doesnt allow me herbals. Gastritis cant tolerate that too btw.

Now the worst part is.. When it couldnt go worse.. I had food poisoning and developed some ibd markers. I have calprotectin 277 and 141 in testing.
Im sure like u day that its and overgrowth of certain bacteria high in my gut.
I feel cramps and inflammation an inch under navel belly button and left side wich is jejunum i think. In the food poisoning i had cramps in this same spot. And now i have ibd in same spot i feel. Its now 5 weeks after poisoning.

Since we both think that crohn isnt map persee. But its an overgrowth dysbiosis of the gut at one or more parts. How the hell can i make myself better with diet u think or can advice?

I already did once scd diet for 3 months a year ago for my original sibo.. Bloating never got way better, but only slightly. Adrenal fatigue came and my interstitial cystitis got worse.

I also did fasting for 10 days with sibo. It did improve some, but only for two weeks.
So i do feel lost, specially with ibd markers now.
If i skip carbs... I get adrenal fatigue and make other stuff worse.

Is it possible to just maintain a healthy diet and still improve some?
Avoid my intolerances and eat just healthy as healthy i can.
I am very limited because of sibo and gastritis.

I eat basicly:
Potato, rice
Meat and fish and chicken
Zunnichi
Carrot
Spinache
Asparagus
Lettuce
Green beans
Eggplant
Fennel
Peas
And banana as only fruit, since gastritis dont allow my graps and oranges anymore.

Maybe u got some suggestions.
I feel pretty alone in this, but i saw ur post on crohnsforum and ur blog. U have some simular toughts then me.

Greets ken

InstantCoffee said:
Have you had a recent endoscopy? You may have ulceration that's being aggrivated by the stomach's behavior in a fasted state.

Try a capful of apple cider vinegar in 1L of water. If that doesn't help try a pinch of baking soda in 1L of water.

My research into fasting shows that it can have a lot of benefits to Crohn's beyond just bowel rest.

Fasting upregulates the production of gut serotonin which is shown to have healing and anti-inflammatory properties. It spikes at the 48 hour mark.

Fasting upregulates catecholamines in general such as noepinepharine (I probably butchered that), serotonin, dopamine, etc. Most patients with Crohn's and other physiological or mental disorders will have an imbalance of these neurotransmitters. Rebalancing of serotonin-dopamine levels has been shown effective in treating Crohn's in some patients.

Fasting can starve out pathogenic gut bacteria that may have been feeding on sugars in your diet to survive, including h. pylori, klebsiella, candida, e.coli and others common to Crohn's disease.

In a fast bacteroidetes bacteria native to the gut consume intestinal mucins producing butyric acid as a byproduct, crucial to the food chain of gut bacteria that heals the gut wall - however other probiotics in the gut may diminish.

I would suggest either fasting in 16 hour gaps (I.e. eating within an 8 hour window before bed, then 0 calories the rest of the day) or 48 hours followed by several days off. At the end of the fast I would immediately begin with prebiotic fiber and probiotics, complex carbs and fats, anything sweet should be glucose rich.

Sources at bottom of page.

https://beyondtheoddsfitness.wordpr...crohns-therapies-based-on-scientific-studies/
Click to expand...
 
kenvh said:
Hi

Im ken from belgium 35 years old.
I have sibo and probally ibd now.
2.5 years ago i had food poisoning and that triggered sibo.
Im 100% sure that the theory of dr pimentel is correct.
The toxins of campylobacter cdtb toxin have the same structure as the protein vinculin.
Vinculin is the motility migrating motor complex of the gut. The migrating motor complec is attacked for us.. That gave me sibo. If i take probiotics, i get worse. They ferment foods high up small intestine where absorption should take place and not fermantation.

I took rifaximin for sibo and sibo improved dramaticly. Altough i think it gave a worse imbalance and killed a lot of good.
After rifaximin i got gastritis in stomach, wich is even more difficult in diet. No foods lower then ph5. With this ibs.. interstitial cystitis also came wich doesnt allow me herbals. Gastritis cant tolerate that too btw.

Now the worst part is.. When it couldnt go worse.. I had food poisoning and developed some ibd markers. I have calprotectin 277 and 141 in testing.
Im sure like u day that its and overgrowth of certain bacteria high in my gut.
I feel cramps and inflammation an inch under navel belly button and left side wich is jejunum i think. In the food poisoning i had cramps in this same spot. And now i have ibd in same spot i feel. Its now 5 weeks after poisoning.

Since we both think that crohn isnt map persee. But its an overgrowth dysbiosis of the gut at one or more parts. How the hell can i make myself better with diet u think or can advice?

I already did once scd diet for 3 months a year ago for my original sibo.. Bloating never got way better, but only slightly. Adrenal fatigue came and my interstitial cystitis got worse.

I also did fasting for 10 days with sibo. It did improve some, but only for two weeks.
So i do feel lost, specially with ibd markers now.
If i skip carbs... I get adrenal fatigue and make other stuff worse.

Is it possible to just maintain a healthy diet and still improve some?
Avoid my intolerances and eat just healthy as healthy i can.
I am very limited because of sibo and gastritis.

I eat basicly:
Potato, rice
Meat and fish and chicken
Zunnichi
Carrot
Spinache
Asparagus
Lettuce
Green beans
Eggplant
Fennel
Peas
And banana as only fruit, since gastritis dont allow my graps and oranges anymore.

Maybe u got some suggestions.
I feel pretty alone in this, but i saw ur post on crohnsforum and ur blog. U have some simular toughts then me.

Greets ken
Click to expand...

I feel for you, I can only recommend what has worked for me as well as what research suggests.

How did you approach your fasting during the 10 days? Was it a liquid fast, or complete calorie restriction?

When you say "Doesn't allow me herbals" what do you mean by this? Herbal medication or...? This will really limit what I can recommend.

I would recommend that you try fasting again with at least a 12 hour on 12 hour off split, though 16 hour on 8 off may be better. During this time no calories, no chewing gum, only tea, water and black coffee. It's very important you don't break the body's natural starvation process as this is what triggers the healing.

During your fasted state supplement L-Glutamine with water first thing in the morning. If you can also get l-arginine take this at the same time.

Currently I break my fast at around 12pm to 2pm, I recommend taking about 1 tbsp or a capful of aloe vera juice in water or a potassium-rich juice followed by your first meal which should be high in fiber (I currently have a half cup of quinoa with a small portion of meat) and then I take two meal replacement shakes.

If you believe you still have active SIBO you may want to try buying Oil of Oregano capsules or some kind of candida cleanse like this (I highly recommend this one because of all the active ingredients treat bacterial, fungal and parasitic infections) https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Bound...d=1493744346&sr=1-15&keywords=candida+cleanse

The main ingredients you want from this are the oregano, black walnut, wormwood. Thymol / thyme extract would have been nice too.

You don't want to take this for more than a month or one full bottle because these ingredients can be hepatotoxic, but if you take this you can also forego aloe vera as it's in the ingedients list here.

Also limit your salt intake, I suggest getting a diet tracking program that will give you details on you micronutrients, including all your vitamins and minerals and amino-acid profile of proteins, like the one on nutritiondata.com
 
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Thx man for ur kind toughts.
With herbals that i cant take i mean... I got other conditions like gastritis and interstitial cystitis.. Wich dont let me take them. They burn those organs.
So im very limited in what i do.
Arent those herbals like oregano oil not crazy offenders for crohn disease. As tissue is already inflammed? Glutamine hurts my gastritis, so thats off too im afraid.

I did a 10 day elemental diet fast. So had my amino acids and some calories.
Did do a little bit for sibo.
But it wont cure crohn. Does fasting for 16 hours help ur crohn?
Im already losing again more weight, so im little easy on fasting.
 
kenvh said:
Thx man for ur kind toughts.
With herbals that i cant take i mean... I got other conditions like gastritis and interstitial cystitis.. Wich dont let me take them. They burn those organs.
So im very limited in what i do.
Arent those herbals like oregano oil not crazy offenders for crohn disease. As tissue is already inflammed? Glutamine hurts my gastritis, so thats off too im afraid.

I did a 10 day elemental diet fast. So had my amino acids and some calories.
Did do a little bit for sibo.
But it wont cure crohn. Does fasting for 16 hours help ur crohn?
Im already losing again more weight, so im little easy on fasting.
Click to expand...

Intermittent fasting is the only thing that controls my crohn's. I've gained more weight eating less by fasting because of how much my condition has improved. I'm eating the same foods I was before I started IF.

There's several pathways by which complete calorie restriction alters the processes in the body that worsen crohn's.

You can still eat everything you normally eat, you just have to do it in a smaller window of time, which may mean you have to cut how much you eat at first but as you get better you'll gain your appetite back and be able to eat all you meals within that window.

Remember if you're fasting 16 hours you still have from 2:00pm to 10:00pm to eat, that's a lot of time!
 
Hey man, sorry, my english isnt too good.
I dont fully understand.
I dont get the eat less thing and still gain weight.

U say avoiding calories does put a hold on the inflammation?
So basicly scd is best diet?
Problem is im already weak as hell.. And adrenals fall down a lot without carbs.

What i do now is eat last meal at 7 in the evening.. And eat next morning around 10. So that means a 15 hours fast everyday. Is that a good thing??
 
kenvh said:
Hey man, sorry, my english isnt too good.
I dont fully understand.
I dont get the eat less thing and still gain weight.

U say avoiding calories does put a hold on the inflammation?
So basicly scd is best diet?
Problem is im already weak as hell.. And adrenals fall down a lot without carbs.

What i do now is eat last meal at 7 in the evening.. And eat next morning around 10. So that means a 15 hours fast everyday. Is that a good thing??
Click to expand...

Interesting, so you're already on a pretty decent fasted time if that's the case. You could try moving up your first meal to 12 but I'm not sure it would make much difference. It's entirely possible that the times I've chosen are part of why it works, due to the hormone cycles that go through the day.

If you're still getting sick I would look again at your diet. For example potato is not advisable to Crohn's because it's a nightshade which contains glycoalkaloids which can trigger Crohn's. Try switching to sweet potatoes / yams instead.

http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/nightshades/

I, personally, don't really follow SCD as I found every time I went low-carb I got worse. I personally believe that fiber is very important to sustaining healthy digestion and that sugars are okay as long as they're limited and you take them with fiber.

I understand however that many with Crohn's are very sensitive to fiber so it's important to try different sources of fiber to find one that's right for you, whether it's a brown rice, millet, quinoa, buckwheat, oats etc.

I also suggest that any grains you eat, preferably are soaked overnight first, then heated to be easier to digest.

Can you have meats or fish? What about dairy? Green tea?

I think moving away from some of those vegetables might be advisable as many of them are difficult for people with active crohn's and trying to include more anti-oxidants like Matcha tea might help.
 
Ok, maybe i try sweet potato instead. Thats a good tip.
Altough i find it more like this crohn is doing random flares.
I do follow this diet for a year now. And had one good week.
The next week was much worse and had same foods rotating.
It doesnt make much sense too me.

I only eat jasmin rice. I think thats ok right.
So maybe i soak them in water for the next day?

Meat and fish is ok for me i suppose. I eat it everyday along rice, or potato and veggs.

Green tea, not a chance, gastritis and ic would flare.
I do marhmellow root wich is good for mucus layer, redbush tea, sometimes little ginger or fennel tea or chamille.
Redbush has amazing loads of anti oxidants. I should drink it more man.

Im lost and new in this. I only got this 6 weeks now. I had pork food poisoning.
Had 3 positive calprotectin tests in 6 weeks span. This points to ibd and feels like ibd. This is a hard disease man. Got cramps urgency and exhaustion and fatigue and some pain on top of other diseases. My life sucks. Lol
 
Ps... I ate 2 raw carrots yesterday evening as a snack to raise my short chain fatty acids for butyrate production. And the hope if i do some raw veggs.. My microbes change a bit.
Well, next morning a flare started. Maybe it was the raw carrot. Maybe i can only do soft cooked veggs like usually
 
kenvh said:
Ps... I ate 2 raw carrots yesterday evening as a snack to raise my short chain fatty acids for butyrate production. And the hope if i do some raw veggs.. My microbes change a bit.
Well, next morning a flare started. Maybe it was the raw carrot. Maybe i can only do soft cooked veggs like usually
Click to expand...
My experience has been that I cant est vegetables unless they are fully cooked.
 
In Peru, they have low incidence of Crohn's, and have been cultivating potatoes for 10,000 years.
 
kenvh said:
Im lost and new in this. I only got this 6 weeks now. I had pork food poisoning.
Had 3 positive calprotectin tests in 6 weeks span. This points to ibd and feels like ibd. This is a hard disease man. Got cramps urgency and exhaustion and fatigue and some pain on top of other diseases. My life sucks. Lol
Click to expand...

Please get properly diagnosed. You cannot just assume you have IBD because it "feels" like IBD. IBD feels different to everyone. Food poisoning can cause raised calproctectin levels. You need to be properly tested for IBD before making all these assumptions and changes.
 
kenvh said:
What about rice? Or rice noodle? And rice cake? Is that safer? I need some carb
Click to expand...

Yes, though it varies by grain and individual. Rice and quinoa are my top choices, I avoid brown rices and stick to jasmine and basmati.

Sushi rices are typically safe too but I don't like them.
 
manatee said:
Hello out there... I've been thinking about experimenting a bit by fasting once or twice a week for awhile to see if that eventually helps my Crohn's.

I think I've heard stories where some people sometimes have to go to the hospital to be fed by IV to give their guts time to heal and wondered if anyone out there has had luck with fasting?

Seems like it could help... or at the least, perhaps a liquid diet once a week?

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


------

Hey there!

I fast every day until 2 or 3 pm, and it has helped a ton! I do not get half as gassy as before, when I would eat breakfast (which was usually forced down anyways).

I only eat for 8 hours out of the day (so 2 to 10 or 3 to 11), and it has helped a huge amount!

As for fasting for several days, I would not really recommend it, I have done it, and did not benefit from it. If anything, when I broke the fast, the next day was worse then pre-fasting state.
 
I have been engaging in various intermittent fasting routines, no more than 5 days, usually 24-48 hrs, for several years now. I've been doing this almost since I was formally diagnosed with Crohn's. Before the Dx there were no symptoms, I may have gotten the Dx far earlier than most due to a fistulotomy would that wouldn't heal, which upon fruther investigation led to the Dx. Over the course of 4 annual colonoscopies there has been progressive improvement in the internal presentation. Last one GI doc said there was barely anything abnormal. That said, my symptoms have always been moderate at worst, and flare ups widely spaced, with only one moderate to bad one. But over most of this time I was fasting periodically, so its hard to tell if I can establish a good baseline of sorts. I am almost certain it has helped though
 

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