# Osteopath, reflexology, homeopath...



## ruthyp (May 24, 2011)

Hi All,

I am doing more and more research into alternative treatments for my CD. Getting no where with all the drugs the docs are giving me.

Has anyone tried reflexology, cranial osteopathy, homeopathy etc?

If so, what was your experience and has it helped you?
I completely understand it works for each person in a different way, just like the disease itself affects everyone differently.

Many Thanks
xxxxx


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## Jennifer (Jun 10, 2011)

Sorry I've never tried any of them. I've been doing very well with the medicine prescribed by my doctors. I hope you can find a treatment that works best for you.


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## arctic_alpine (Jun 10, 2011)

i've done acupuncture a few times, but i can't tell if its helping yet


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## KWud (Jun 10, 2011)

Hi Ruth

I have both Reflexology and Homeopathy on a regular basis and have done for many years. I don't have reflexology when I'm flaring, it would be too painful and could make the crohns worse in the short term. Generally I have reflexology once a month as a boost for my general health and a homopathic consultation once every 3 months. Whatever is affecting my general health will be treated at these consulations. I find both of these alternative treatments very effective for my well being  I have only had one really bad flare for years (currently having it  ) and I feel these treatments have contributed to me being so well prior to this flare. I would add that the practitioner makes a difference, I did have homeopathy pre-diagnosis with a different practitioner and her remedies made me very ill, so getting these right person for you is very important.

Paula
x


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## kekemonster101 (Jun 11, 2011)

Im sorry but im going to have to disagree here.. alternative therapies like acupuncture and reflexology just are not proven and any effect from them is purely placebo. There have even been studies that have shown that sham acupuncture "with pricks from toothpicks" was more effective then real acupuncture. 

The nerves in the feet, often worked on in reflexology, really have no bearing on your digestive system. Homeopathy is nothing more then drinking tap water. There is no detectable active ingredients in these "remedies".

None of these therapies have any good clinical evidence to support them, and I think that it would be dangerous to pursue these methods instead of conventional medicine. Just because you haven't had luck so far with your medications doesn't mean there aren't other treatments out there. You may also need to find a more experienced gastroenterologist. 

But please, whatever you do, stick with proven therapies that have been put up to rigorous scrutiny, double-blind clinical trials, etc.


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## peleburrows (Jun 11, 2011)

I have tried in varying degrees for Crohn's (and food intolerances, allergies, anxiety and general fitness related issues at the same time) acupuncture, homoepathy, kiniseology, thai massage, reflexology and aromatherapy kind of massage. Some of these I did for months others just a one off. My thoughts are:

*Acupuncture *- I did for 3+ months once a week. While it was difficult to tell if it helped the Crohn's I am sure it had an effect on my anxiety related symptoms. The most notable session was also my last so I've never discussed it with the therapist and it involved pouring salt in to the belly button and heating it. Over the next 2 days at the same time I could still feel the heat, felt like I was going to vomit at the same time each night. The following night I had little to no anxiety related issues - they've slowly crept back but its something I'd like to try again when I have the money. 

*Homoepathy* - Possible improvement to my hayfever and dog related allergies but really the main reason it was beneficial was I was confiding to someone about issues.

*Kiniseology* - I had one appointment when I was first diagnosed 7 years ago and I vaguely remember the foods to steer clear of. It was very restrictive at the time and I gave up on the advice because of this. However, as time has gone by things such as avoiding gluten, refined sugars, pork and so on have proved to be true.

I went to a different kiniseologist last year and I didn't trust his advice. 

*Thai massage* - This was mainly for flexibility but I tried this before going to yoga classes. The yoga helps alot most of the time (but not always). 

I had many thai massages in Thailand last year, including the temple it originiated from and if I could have a massage from there everyday I'm sure it would be of _great _benefit (but alas I don't live in Bangkok). 

*Reflexology* - Extremely relaxing, more so than a full body massage in my experience. If stress and our mental state has a direct effect on digestion and therefore Crohn's why is reflexology of no benefit? I thoroughly recommend it to combat stress + if you're sensitive about your body or tender in certain areas it might be a good option.

*Aromatherapy kind of massage* - I just went for what I thought was a 'regular' massage but it was aromatherapy. At the time I thought it was terrible as thoughts kept bombarding my mind but in hindsight I think it was bringing stuff to the surface, rather than relaxing me which was the intention.

*Ayurvedic* - This is something I will look to in the future, I've only dabbled really and it seemed to have some positive effects. When I have some money I will try and find a practitioner.

*Conclusion* - I too turned my back on conventional medicine for a while and I understand your frustrations but I won't be doing it again, looking back I think I was slightly irresponsible. However, if you have the money to spare (and the patience) I would recommend yoga most of all.

Its important to be slightly sceptical of these treatments as some are total hocum and so you don't get taken for a ride.


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## kekemonster101 (Jun 11, 2011)

Many, if not most, if these treatments usually have something in common: they can be relaxing, often using massage, nice scents, and usually have you lie down on some sort of bed while a doctor spends a lot of time with you and listens to your problems. This is what you are paying for. A REAL doctors office has harsh fluorescent lights, sharp instruments, and your doctor may not spend more then a few minutes with you. Most of the time, all you are paying for is ambiance. It's an expensive restaurant serving you frozen dinners. 

The harsh reality is that while massage may be relaxing and may make you feel good for a little while, it will not actually have a significant benefit on inflammation in your digestive tract - the cause of most symptoms. 

The same effect of these therapies can be achieved by yourself - maybe through meditation or other relaxation technique. These practitioners often sell you sham treatments and bogus supplements that they make a commission on. 

Many people dont even understand what acupuncture is based off of - it was created by people who had absolutely no idea how the human body worked or had any idea about anatomy. They thought "chi", (not blood) was a "life force" that kept your body free of diseases. It supposedly runs through your body, correlating with various rivers located in different locations. The needles supposedly deal with "blockages". It really is quite a hoot when you look into it.

Please do not waste your money on these modern day snake oil salesmen. Penn & Teller's "BULL$#!^" television series actually has excellent episodes on some of these topics - alternative medicine, reflexology, etc..and they show how there really is no benefit (aside from placebo which is not a lasting, tangible benefit)

If you are interested in viewing these informative episodes about alternative medicine, here is a youtube link for the first part of the episode. I found it highly entertaining. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qkXR9mflOo


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## peleburrows (Jun 12, 2011)

I don't know where to begin in replying to your comment kekemonster! 



> The harsh reality is that while massage may be relaxing and may make you feel good for a little while, it will not actually have a significant benefit on inflammation in your digestive tract - the cause of most symptoms.


If you are regularly having reflexology, say once a week, and regularly you're feeling good for a little bit of the week surely being in a relaxed and comfortable state is a better place to be for healing than being stressed which slows healing and makes you more susceptible to other illnesses? Furthermore, simply knowing that you will have a period of relaxation i.e the anticipation is of benefit also.



> The same effect of these therapies can be achieved by yourself - maybe through meditation or other relaxation technique. These practitioners often sell you sham treatments and bogus supplements that they make a commission on.


Meditation requires a lot of self discipline which most people aren't willing to dedicate themselves to. I have never been offered _any_ further sham treatments or supplemens they make commission on. All offered only the service itself and recommended supplements or gave simple unattached advice.



> Many people dont even understand what acupuncture is based off of - it was created by people who had absolutely no idea how the human body worked or had any idea about anatomy. They thought "chi", (not blood) was a "life force" that kept your body free of diseases. It supposedly runs through your body, correlating with various rivers located in different locations. The needles supposedly deal with "blockages". It really is quite a hoot when you look into it.


Perhaps the 'eastern' explanation of acupuncture doesn't sit well with your views but you need to note that its been developed over 1000s of years - how would someone in say 1000BC describe how the brain works? Or why we need to breathe? Or how we fight a respiratory illness? Or heal from a burn? And so on. 



> Please do not waste your money on these modern day snake oil salesmen. Penn & Teller's "BULL$#!^" television series actually has excellent episodes on some of these topics - alternative medicine, reflexology, etc..and they show how there really is no benefit (aside from placebo which is not a lasting, tangible benefit)


Penn & Teller's "BULL$#!^" television series - sounds like a fair analysis of said treatments? I'm not saying some aren't total frauds or simply incompetent but many of these 'studies', tv series, magazine articles and so on,  seem set out to prove these treatments irrelevance and show how 'odd' their methodologies are rather than an actual unbiased open minded view to all the issues involved. 


My response sounds like I'm 100% in favour of turning solely to alternative medicines but its not. I felt that I needed to counter this reply for some balance.


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## ruthyp (Jun 12, 2011)

Thank you to both of you for showing both sides of the arguement, i understand where yyour coming from peleburrows. My mum is a reflexologist so i do believe that these things do help, but there will always be people to argue for and against. but thank you
x


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## KWud (Jun 12, 2011)

Well said Peleburrows 

Although I would agree Kelemonster that part of the benefit of these treatments is in the councelling session that runs alongside the treatment, in my experience alternative remedies have worked for me. They are also cheaper than paying for a private councellor!

Have you tried any of these treatments Kelemonster? Also these treatments are designed to be used alongside conventional medicines and are therefore not "dangerous to pursue". My Homeopath would be horrified if any of her clients stopped using their prescribed conventional medicine! I would also like to add that my Homeopath has succeeded with clients where doctors have failed, so are alternative remedies really not worth giving a go? Even if it's all in the mind and having the treatments act as a catalyst to boost the mind to heal the body then it's worth it to me! 

Paula


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## peleburrows (Jun 12, 2011)

I'm pleased to give a brief account of some of my experiences as I don't tend to get a chance to talk/discuss in person!

Good luck ruth, sounds like an ideal situation to have a reflexologist as your mum. 

And hopefully keke you've opened yourself (just a little  ) to these alternative therapies.


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## D Bergy (Jun 12, 2011)

Use what works for you.  I know nothing about Chinese medicine or reflexology, but if it helped me, and did not cost a fortune, I woul try it.

I have used a few unconventional treatments, and some helped me and others did not.  A homeopathic mold remedy stopped my hayfever symptoms, with no side effects.  It had a similar effect on my son.  I had no reason to believe it would work, but for twelve bucks, it was worth a try.

Most all my Crohn's treatments are outside of conventional medicine, but I use conventional medicine also, when it makes sense to do so.  

I do not see any advantage in limiting my options to one narrow branch of medicine, unless it has a cure for my condition.  Since no cure is available, then the answer certainly lies in an unproven, maybe overlooked treatment yet to be discovered.  We simply do not know at this time.

Dan


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## kekemonster101 (Jun 12, 2011)

> If you are regularly having reflexology, say once a week, and regularly you're feeling good for a little bit of the week surely being in a relaxed and comfortable state is a better place to be for healing than being stressed which slows healing and makes you more susceptible to other illnesses?


If you are willing to admit that reflexology is nothing more then a simple foot massage that gives you a relaxing session, and its nothing more then that, and you are willing to pay for it, then I would say fine, however you are supporting a "practitioner" that makes unsubstantiated claims and drives people away from real medicine. This can be harmful. Why not get a real massage instead from a massage therapist?



> Meditation requires a lot of self discipline which most people aren't willing to dedicate themselves to. I have never been offered _any_ further sham treatments or supplemens they make commission on. All offered only the service itself and recommended supplements or gave simple unattached advice.


This is rare. Natural and holistic practitioners very often offer supplements and tests that are extremely expensive. Not only that, the visits themselves can cost an arm and a leg, and they often dont accept insurance. 



> Perhaps the 'eastern' explanation of acupuncture doesn't sit well with your views but you need to note that its been developed over 1000s of years - how would someone in say 1000BC describe how the brain works? Or why we need to breathe? Or how we fight a respiratory illness? Or heal from a burn? And so on.


Im not sure I see your point here. Are you saying that because the ideas are old that they somehow have more credibility? If anything, old ideas have much less credibility because they didnt have the knowledge that we have today. Blood letting was an extremely popular practice not too long ago - until we learned more about the body, and stopped doing it. 



> Penn & Teller's "BULL$#!^" television series - sounds like a fair analysis of said treatments? I'm not saying some aren't total frauds or simply incompetent but many of these 'studies', tv series, magazine articles and so on,  seem set out to prove these treatments irrelevance and show how 'odd' their methodologies are rather than an actual unbiased open minded view to all the issues involved.


The reason these types of shows take this position is because its the most logical and sound advice that can be given at this time. They could be easily proven wrong by properly carried out scientific studies to show efficacy of any of these treatments (of which there are none - all the ones that have been done show no benefit over placebo)



> They are also cheaper than paying for a private councellor!


While having a friend to chat with about your problems may sound appealing, you shouldn't need to go to a supposed "doctor" just to do that. If you have serious medical issues you need real treatment, first and foremost. I also find it hard to believe that any natural practitioner is cheaper then a therapist. 



> Have you tried any of these treatments Kelemonster? Also these treatments are designed to be used alongside conventional medicines and are therefore not "dangerous to pursue".


Many people do persue these treatments and reject modern medicine. There are many accounts of children dying because their parents would refuse to provide any treatment besides homeopathic treatment. Its not uncommon for people to reject "big pharma". If you really want to know "whats the harm", I recommend you watch this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f975xKbLm4k



> Even if it's all in the mind and having the treatments act as a catalyst to boost the mind to heal the body then it's worth it to me!


This is called a placebo and only has a short, temporary effect. You can not effectively treat diseases using this mentality. Scientific proof is paramount to finding out if medicine works. 

I understand the appeal of natural medicine, and not every holistic doctor is a quack, but many of them are, often emptying their patients' wallets and wasting their time. Also, some alternative therapies may be effective, but as soon as any evidence is gathered that something works, it no longer becomes "alternative".


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## ruthyp (Jun 13, 2011)

kekemonster101 said:


> If you are willing to admit that reflexology is nothing more then a simple foot massage that gives you a relaxing session, and its nothing more then that, and you are willing to pay for it, then I would say fine, however you are supporting a "practitioner" that makes unsubstantiated claims and drives people away from real medicine. This can be harmful. Why not get a real massage instead from a massage therapist?.


Im slightly offended that you have said "why not get a real massage" my mum trained extremely hard to get her qualifications, in some cases she worked harder then others that just do body massage.

One case she done, just for an example, a partner of her friend wanted to try reflexology so she gave him a free session, she asked him not to tell her anything about him and his wife did not either. Whilst she was doing his feet she said picked up the fact he had tooth ache, what side it was on and that it was the top rather then the bottom. He was shocked and asked her not to tell his wife because she would make him go to the dentist!! 

Because he didnt want to go to the dentist she continued doing his feet until he decided to go, but he said it really helped ease the pain of the tooth ache. Not coincidence! And seeing that my crohns flared due to very stressful personnal life, relaxation is prob the best treatment for me!

*PeleBurrows*: Unfortunatly she has developed arthiritus in her hands and is now unable to do it, however she is teaching my sister so she will be able to help me in a few months **fingers crossed**. There is no way i will turn my back on conventional meds.

xx


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## kekemonster101 (Jun 13, 2011)

> Im slightly offended that you have said "why not get a real massage" my mum trained extremely hard to get her qualifications, in some cases she worked harder then others that just do body massage.


I didnt mean to imply that reflexology might not require a pair of skilled hands and that it isnt an actual real "massage". I meant that if you wanted a relaxing session, a $39 full body massage (rather then just the feet) might be more attractive. 



> One case she done, just for an example, a partner of her friend wanted to try reflexology so she gave him a free session, she asked him not to tell her anything about him and his wife did not either. Whilst she was doing his feet she said picked up the fact he had tooth ache, what side it was on and that it was the top rather then the bottom. He was shocked and asked her not to tell his wife because she would make him go to the dentist!!


Anecdotes can almost never be relied upon. Your mother may have been using non verbal cues - he may have been poking at it with his tongue, rubbing it, or using a type of cold reading, even subconsciously. I can hear stories of people, whole families in fact, who claim to have been abducted by aliens. People can claim a lot of things but until its proven by a third party you can not expect somebody else to truly take your word for it.



> And seeing that my crohns flared due to very stressful personnal life, relaxation is prob the best treatment for me!


I truly hope your Crohn's Disease is mild enough that relaxation is sufficient to make you feel well. Everybody likes to feel relaxed, and I love a good massage, but unfortunately for many, it just isnt enough. The most skilled hands in the world cant change genetics or kill bacteria.



> There is no way i will turn my back on conventional meds.


Thats good to hear and I think most people feel this way. I just feel somewhat more outspoken against this type of therapy because it just isnt proven. I think we should use the best methods available (scientific method) to find out the best possible outcomes and the most likely effective treatments. 

xx[/QUOTE]


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## ruthyp (Jun 13, 2011)

sorry i misread what you meant to say. Unfortunatly im quite severe with my crohns at the moment, so relaxation on its own would not be enough, im constantly boardline of going to hospital, i think its purely stuborness that is stopping me going this time, hence the reason i wont turn my back on my meds.x


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## kekemonster101 (Jun 13, 2011)

I know how you feel. Its really hard to give in and finally decide to go to the hospital. However, if you feel its inevitable, try to get to the hospital at a time when it wont be packed full if you are going to the ER.


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## handle (Jun 13, 2011)

Acupuncture is a wonderful treatment. There are many studies showing how useful it is, and many that do not. I have had enormous benefit from acupuncture, when performed by a skilled practitioner. Reflexology has not been studied as much but I can say from my own experience that it is a very useful tool. I had a practitoner visit me in hospital and the relief was incredible. Shiatsu massage is also useful. The practitioner is as important as the treatment, as in all fields including western medicine!
It is mostly western people that think the idea of Chi is odd. They tend to insult half the world because they have no personal experience. I am an engineer with a strong background in science, and also a T'ai Chi instructor. The two arenas are not mutually exclusive. The field of alternative medicine is enormous and lends itself, sadly, to many shonky operators. It is definitely a case of approach with caution.
All the best.


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## peleburrows (Jun 13, 2011)

ruthy, shame about your mum.....acupuncture would be a good bet for her. I'm sure keke will roll her eyes, but a friend said it pretty much cured his Mum's arthritis. 

I won't write a counter argument as we will just be going round and round in circles and theres quite a bit of mileage to go!


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## ruthyp (Jun 13, 2011)

thanks peleburrows, and yes, this is an arguement that will go on for the rest of time! she had acupuncture on the NHS but didnt help, however i dont have much faith in the doc doing it as he got her to fill out forms whilst she had the needles in her still! im sure thats not how its meant to be done. 

I am going to try to find a proper practitioner for me and my mum, the waiting list is 2years for the hosp i work at and that was the treatment my mum got, so im thinking you get what you pay for
x


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## Astra (Jun 13, 2011)

Hiya Ruthy

I don't wanna get into any argument about other people's opinions on alternatives. Everyone is right, everyone is wrong, that's just the way it is!
You asked if anybody had tried them, yes I tried acupuncture and saw an osteopath.
I enjoyed the acupuncture and felt some relief from my headaches and whether that was all in my head, I don't care! My GP is trained and offered it to me for free.
I was wired up with a button to press to make the vibrations stronger and so on.
I still had headache tho!
I then saw an osteopath and it cost me £120 for 4 sessions. He was the one who diagnosed Occipital Neuralgia aka Arnold's Neuralgia.
He said one arm was longer than the other cos of over compensating by not using my arm and shoulder (the sore one) and this was contributing to the pains in my head.
He manipulated all the knots in my neck, shoulder and base of skull over 4 sessions. He used Johnson's Baby Oil and it was a fab experience. I noticed a difference after the first session. I felt movement, mobility and felt alighned!
I think you should try cranial osteopathy, you won't know until you've tried it.
I don't think it helped my Crohn's, the Amitriptyline he recommended did that!
good luck with whatever you choose to do
xxx


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## soretum (Jun 13, 2011)

kekemonster101 said:


> Many, if not most, if these treatments usually have something in common: they can be relaxing, often using massage, nice scents, and usually have you lie down on some sort of bed while a doctor spends a lot of time with you and listens to your problems. This is what you are paying for. A REAL doctors office has harsh fluorescent lights, sharp instruments, and your doctor may not spend more then a few minutes with you. Most of the time, all you are paying for is ambiance. It's an expensive restaurant serving you frozen dinners.
> 
> The harsh reality is that while massage may be relaxing and may make you feel good for a little while, it will not actually have a significant benefit on inflammation in your digestive tract - the cause of most symptoms.
> 
> ...


I have to beg to differ!
I haven't had any treatments for CD yet, just diagnosed last week, but I have tried accupuncture in the past when I was losing my hair. I have alopecia and 3 1/2 years ago was going thru an extrodinarily hard time as my hair was falling out. I've been thru this before so I knew that conventional medicine didn't have anything to offer me so I went to a traditional accupuncturist....not with the expectation to be cured but to get some relief from my anxiety and general sadness and happiness about it all. After a couple of sessions I went from a nervous anxious wreck to feeling calm, being able to sleep and to rationalise. The lady who did it spoke little english so there was no counselling at all. There is no doubt in my mind that the accupuncture helped me thru that time, something definitly shifted with the treatments and I'll do it again if the CD diagnosis becomes too much for me.

Different strokes for different folks but dont knock it till you've tried it!!


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## KWud (Jun 13, 2011)

kekemonster101 said:


> While having a friend to chat with about your problems may sound appealing, you shouldn't need to go to a supposed "doctor" just to do that. If you have serious medical issues you need real treatment, first and foremost. I also find it hard to believe that any natural practitioner is cheaper then a therapist.
> 
> Keke, I personally find your comments offensive!!! I do have many friends to "chat to" and don't "need" to go to a supposed "doctor". I just prefer to do that!!! Sometimes when talking about personal health problems it's better to do it with someone who is completely neutral, I find. I do get "real" treatment and also "alternative" treatment which both work for me and yes my natural practitioner IS cheaper than a therapist!!!


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