# The Maker's Diet - Jordan Rubin. Best book ever!



## karma_hunden

I highly recommend this book. I also offers an incredible diet that might change your life and even cure you.

This book is about a guy that suffered from crohns to the point that he almost died. He later found the cure in the "Maker's Diet" in which he later explains. He also became a nutritionist/doctors with a few degrees and is able to give the reader a more insighful explanation of things (to avoid, implement in your life, etc).

highly recommend it!!!

Maker'S Diet At Amazon


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## Peaches

Hey Karma - read it last week....mmm, taking some of it to heart.  I am a Christian and did find some of his references to the Bible pretty interesting.  The parts about what meat NOT to eat was spot on - just never thought about it that way before.  I have ordered the Raw One vitamins and so far, I'm having great success with them.  Normally any vitamin I take just tears my gut up, but I seem to be tolerating them well - no fillers in them may be why.   Here is a thread I started a week or so ago.

http://crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=8789&highlight=Maker%27s+Diet


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## kello82

i tried BTVC which is similar in ideals. im not super religious so that part did not affect me much.

i did try the Primal Defense probiotics though. i think thats their name right?
they didnt seem to have any affect either.


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## GoJohnnyGo

Jordan Rubin is a charlatan of the worst kind. Ponzi schemers, insider traders and garden variety con men prove the adage that there's a sucker born every minute, but snake oil salesmen take it a whole other (low) level. They prey on the desperation of the sick, frail and often financially strapped.

Rubin has bogus degrees and has been substantially fined and told to cease and desist by federal authorities over his spurious claims. None of which can bear the scrutiny  of clinical trials.

His schtick is all wrapped up in feel-good jargon -- part New Age self-empowerment with selective religious references.

Of course he has a whole range of merchandise. Guy doesn't miss a trick.

I think he's a scumbag.

I hope the bill currently before my House of Parliament passes, and puts guys like Jordan Rubin not only out of business but behind bars.


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## violetcreams

Wow, I don't like the sound of that. Don't think I'd touch him with a mucky stick.


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## kenny

I have a hard time "Placing Faith" in a guy who bought a PH.D through the mail for $60.


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## violetcreams

Absolutely with you on that Kenny!!!!


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## Cat-a-Tonic

Bumping this thread.  A friend of mine just lent me this book, so I checked to see if there was a thread on it and sure enough here it is.  I'm not religious in the least so I'm not sure if I'm even going to read it.  Especially now that I've read some of the comments in this thread - GJG's comment in particular!  Sounds like this author is something of a snake oil peddler.


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## Miss Spencer

GoJohnnyGo said:


> I hope the bill currently before my House of Parliament passes, and puts guys like Jordan Rubin not only out of business but behind bars.


I hope NOT.

It is guys like Jordan Rubin, Joseph Mercola, David Klein, Mike Adams, Paul Nison, Craig Sommers, Stanley Bass, Steven Monkiewicz and other natural hygiene pioneers who represent health freedoms, which give me hope for the future. 

If you put them all in prison, I will be stuck with taking only FDA approved drugs and no other options. :eek2:

And the rest of your comments make me want to read The Makers Diet even more. Although I am not religious, so constant Bible references may annoy me. But I like people who think outside the square when it comes to health matters, so it may be worth putting up with bible quotes.

I have read a couple of online reviews for the book and many of his principles make perfect sense:

Eating seed bearing fruit 
Eating grains that have been soaked, sprouted or fermented
Eating unprocessed foods as close to nature intended
Probiotics
The importance of proper digestion
The importance of eating organic foods free from harmful pesticides 
The importance of the mind, body & spirit connection. And how an unbalanced system can affect our health.

I read that Jordan Rubin believes "that because man was not meant to eat the way he eats today these incorrect eating habits are to blame for many of the diseases and conditions that are so prevalent in industrialized society today”.

It just makes such perfect sense. There is absolutely nothing snake oil salesmen or charlatan about a guy making perfect sense.

Another book to add to my reading list.


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## countrycoffeehouse

ok I'm biting.. I am a strong christian- not a preachy one though, I have been asked by practically everyone to read this book. Its a solution for me! Are they crazy? The thought of eating whole grains anything.. will kill my guts the whole way out. And I do agree that all the junk in our food is bad for us.. but when i eat the super healthy stuff I am SICK or sicker.. weird. I am a whole wheat hotdog bun lady even for my family.. but I can not eat it.. I have to stick to white bread.. French or something like it. I tried his diet and was so bad I needed to have a bed pan because I couldn't get out of bed.. I then researched him and found out he paid for some of his degree's and that they are bogus.. I love naturalpaths and organic.. but this was not for me


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## Rebecca85

I haven't even tried it for the same reasons you say. Fair enough, you find something that works for you and you want to tell everyone about it, but buying degrees is fraud in my opinion. And the low res diet helps with my symptoms, so I shan't be trying a diet that tells me to eat the foods that makes my symptoms worse.


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## vonfunk

I tend to distrust anyone who says they've found a "cure" for something, and if it's multiple unrelated conditions then it's even worse. 

If they say this has helped lots of people and might help you, that's a different story.


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## Mountaingem

vonfunk said:


> I tend to distrust anyone who says they've found a "cure" for something, and if it's multiple unrelated conditions then it's even worse.
> 
> If they say this has helped lots of people and might help you, that's a different story.


I totally agree. I've read the Maker's Diet book, I haven't followed the Diet but I have taken the supplements and found them very helpful, especially the Primal Defense. I also saw a red flag over the section that lists all of the ails that it will "cure"-from allergies to cancer to Crohn's to fibromyalgia...how is that possible?

Also, I'm not a fan of the relgious angle. I am a Christian but I'm always suspicious when someone selling a product incorperates religion into a "cure". Maybe I'm cynical, I dunno, but it seems like a marketing tool directed at a certain group for guaranteed sales.


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## juiceit

Mountaingem said:


> I totally agree. I've read the Maker's Diet book, I haven't followed the Diet but I have taken the supplements and found them very helpful, especially the Primal Defense. I also saw a red flag over the section that lists all of the ails that it will "cure"-from allergies to cancer to Crohn's to fibromyalgia...how is that possible?
> 
> Also, I'm not a fan of the relgious angle. I am a Christian but I'm always suspicious when someone selling a product incorperates religion into a "cure". Maybe I'm cynical, I dunno, but it seems like a marketing tool directed at a certain group for guaranteed sales.


Part of the problem is everyone is looking for a quick fix.  People want that pill they can take, and keep doing what they are doing.  If you are in a disease state, what you are doing isn't working.  Very hard to pop a pill and fix that, it's a lot to overcome if you don't address why you are like that in the first place.

He got a little greedy.

But, the arguments I've seen here that someone lied about something to make money and throw out the work along with that because he lied about some things?  If you applied that to everything in the 'medical' community the pharmacy shelves would be empty and there would be no doctors.

The reason that one thing can cure multiple diseases, is because when you break it down, that one thing providing the cure is really your own body.  By eating and living a clean life that is all natural, you are giving your body the building blocks to fix itself, which it is designed to do.

When you stray from that, depending on your own makeup, different things will happen.  Heart problems, diabetes, gut diseases, arthritis.

He's preaching get back to your roots in terms of living, I don't see how that is a bad thing at all or how anyone can discredit that, regardless of what he may have done personally.

As for calling eating well and taking care of yourself naturally snake oil, I don't know what to say to that other than it's reflective of a skepticism from a society looking for the solution to everything from someone else but within.


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## juiceit

Mountaingem said:


> I totally agree. I've read the Maker's Diet book, I haven't followed the Diet but I have taken the supplements


This is what I'm referring to with everyone wanting to pop a pill and not change.  The answer is there, but it's too much work.

Not to single anyone out - if you read through this forum you will see hundreds if not thousands of comments like this.


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## Mountaingem

I think that the fundemental ideas ie. eating a balanced diet free of chemicals, hormones, etc. is sound. Probiotics are definitely important for everyone.

I didn't try the diet aspect, not because of not wanting to do the work, so to speak, but because seeds, whole grains, green drinks, copious amounts of coconut oil (or any oil for that matter) and juicing is something my gut can't tolerate on my best day. I'm sure many others here are in the same boat.

As for your own body being the cure, I have tested positive CA-125 and I inherited Crohn's from both sides of my family, so in my case, the body IS the problem, not the cure. 

I incorporate what I can naturally to help myself, and rely on meds for the rest.


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## juiceit

Mountaingem said:


> I
> 
> As for your own body being the cure, I have tested positive CA-125 and I inherited Crohn's from both sides of my family, so in my case, the body IS the problem, not the cure.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CA-125

You can't inherit Crohn's, and you can't give it to someone.  That CA-125 does not mean you have Crohn's.  It's kind of like saying I have (whatever gene causes fair skin) I inherited skin cancer.  Something's got to trigger the response that this has the potential to react with and give you the symptoms because of its response.

Everyone's body, like your mind or your actions, has the potential for good or bad.

I really hope you don't truly believe that your body in its natural form and state as you came into this world is the problem and root cause.  Belief is very powerful in ways we don't fully understand yet, and if you truly believe that, then likely that is what your state of health will reflect.

Genetics and feeding people poisin is the time we are living in currently (actually past, science textbooks haven't caught up yet).  But the times other people lived their life and died sound in their knowledge of the world around them, was flat earth, live spontaneously occurring from rocks and inatimate objects (people used to think maggots were spontanous life generating out of basically thin air and dirt).  People used to use bloodletting and leaches.  Barbers were doctors.  Black people weren't people and neither were women.

The one truth, as far as people go that is irrefutable despite what you believe our origins to be, was when we started out on this planet, we ate what we could find from nature.  Period.  That's how our bodies worked, grew, healed, and still do.


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## Mountaingem

I don't_ think_ I inherited Crohn's; I know it as a scientific fact.  Many of my first,second, even third degree relatives on both sides of my family have it. I also have been extensively tested by a genetic research doctor who has found many markers common for Crohn's in my family. 

I had these tests done because no meds were working and the doctors felt if they knew exactly which pathological markers were involved it would help them make better decisions on treatment. 

I am grateful I did; it also showed a predisposition to an aggressive form of colon cancer associated with certain forms of Crohn's. Because of this I am more rigorously screened for colon cancer; and sure enough, a year ago they found it in Stage 1. I was treated aggressively for this type of cancer with chemotherapy, even in Stage 1, because the doctors had the necessary information from the genetic testing to know exactly what they were dealing with.

I know that isn't true for all Crohn's patients; I am speaking for myself only. But knowledge is power; whether regarding natural treatments or medical treatments.

I know I am dealing with a disease that is complex and has shown the potential in my case to bring on an aggressive form of cancer, which if untreated would end my life. I am determined I will NOT lay down and let it take over my life and I will fight it to the end. I agree that the mind-body connection is strong and that a positive outlook works wonders; everyone on this website is a living testament to that, and that's why we all need to be supportive of each other.


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## juiceit

Mountaingem said:


> I don't_ think_ I inherited Crohn's; I know it as a scientific fact.  Many of my first,second, even third degree relatives on both sides of my family have it.


That isn't indicative of anything.  You get genetics from your family - but you also get behaviour.  If you look at families body sizes and shapes, often you will see a trend.  Fat parents, fat kids.  Skinny parents, skinny kids.  That's not to do with their genes, it's how they act.

Do some more reading on genetics, you'll find that it isn't the wonderful insight into everything even scientists thought it would be.  Even when the human genome was mapped, they found a lot less than they had theorized would be there based on how they had assumed things worked and how they thought things fit together.

Look at stem cells.  Those are actually very interesting.  The basis of all life, all the cells in our body.  They have the potentail to turn into any other cell.  Just one single stem cell - it can be a hair cell, skin cell, liver cell, colon cell, blood cell - anything at all.

Do you know what determines what it becomes?  It's not it's genes.  It's the environment it's in, whether it's in a petri dish or in your body.  It's the cell's surroundings. Acidity, minerals, moisture, light, etc etc, every condition in that stem cell's environment determines what that cell will become.

Our cells can be healty or sick.  Do you know what determines what they are?  The environment they are in, not the genes.


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## juiceit

Mountaingem said:


> I don't_ think_
> 
> Jeannette
> Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint.
> -Mark Twain


PS I like your quote - do you know what that actually means? 

Here's an expert that explains Twain's stance on doctors:

Twain, an insightful political observed and social critic who was familiar with the competing medical systems and the medical politics of the 19th century, questioned the wisdom of limiting patients' medical options.He doubted the competence and intentions of physicians as a group even as he maintained confidence in the abilities of his own physicians. He was critical of the empirical medical practices used during his youth, but he saw hope in the new scientific orientation of medicine in the early 20th century. Twain's commentaries provide a unique perspective on pre-Flexnerian medicine in the United States. 

His warning is referring to the things you believe in.  Your inspirational signature is actually the opposite of what you are acutally saying.


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## DustyKat

So do you believe that environment is the cause for all the diseases and disorders that humans are inflicted with?


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## juiceit

DustyKat said:


> So do you believe that environment is the cause for all the diseases and disorders that humans are inflicted with?


Most.  And when I say environment, I don't mean like hippie save the planet environemnt.  I mean when you break it down to the cellular level, the environemnt the smallest living pieces in your body exist in and interact on.  Part of that is the air we breathe, but it's really what we put in our body, on our body, or our body through.  Your body is a closed system in equilibrium, kind of like a big cell.

In that sense, yes I believe environment is responsible for most diseases, at least these modern ones like IBD, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and many fatal cancers.

And beyond that, I believe that to a degree, our bodies can fight off or self correct most of these things.  But that's an optimally fueled body, with what it needs to do it's job.  If you have been eating say 4 big macs a day for the last 5 years, and you get gut rot...if you keep eating 4 big macs a day and pop a pill to make it go away in addition, it likely won't go away, it's too much to overcome without stopping eating big macs. But if you stop eating big macs that caused your problem, and start shoving healthy food through, you likely can heal yourself and likely don't need that pill.

Cells die off, they get replaced.  They get repaired.  When it comes time to generate new cells, and repair cells, if the environment is the same that caused them to be unhealthy, they will remain that way.


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## rottengut91

Here's another quote for you....

“The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”


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## juiceit

rottengut91 said:


> Here's another quote for you....
> 
> “The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.”


“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”


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## lynx

"The truest characters of ignorance are vanity and pride and arrogance."
Samuel Butler


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## Mountaingem

For those who are interested here's the study my doctor referenced to me, from the CCFA website, 

"Scientists have identified a handful of genes that increase the risk of developing Crohn's disease, confirming that the often debilitating inflammatory bowel disease has a strong genetic component.

U.S. and Canadian researchers scanned the entire genome -- all 22,000 genes -- of about 6,000 people. Approximately half had Crohn's disease and half did not, they reported in the medical journal Nature Genetics.

Previous studies identified two genes involved in the disease.

"I think at this point we have probably up to about eight or nine genes, depending on how you define it," said Dr. John Rioux of the Montreal Heart Institute and the Universite de Montreal, who led the team of investigators.

The researchers said the findings showed genetics play a crucial role in the disease, although environmental factors also are involved. For example, smoking raises one's risk.

Pinpointing the genes that predispose people to Crohn's disease, the researchers said, could help lead to new ways to treat it.

The study relied on the Human Genome Project, a map of the human DNA, which is available free to anyone on the Internet. Researchers can compare the DNA of Crohn's disease patients to this DNA map to see how one person differs from another."

"Who Gets IBD?
IBD tends to run in families, so we know that genes definitely play a role in the IBD picture. Studies have shown that about 20 to 25 percent of patients may have a close relative with either Crohn's or ulcerative colitis. If a person has a relative with the disease, his or her risk is about 10 times greater than that of the general population. If that relative happens to be a brother or sister, the risk is 30 times greater.

Researchers have been working actively for some time to find a link to specific genes that control the transmission of this illness. Recently, an important breakthrough was achieved when the first gene for Crohn's disease was identified by a team of IBD investigators. The researchers were able to pick out an abnormal mutation or alteration in a gene known as NOD2/CARD 15.. This mutation, which limits the ability to recognize bacteria as harmful, occurs twice as frequently in Crohn's patients as in the general population."  

I know some here rely more on natural remedies and believe that this will help the body heal itself. I support their desicion to manage their disease on their terms. For myself I use a combination of the two, and it has worked very well in my case. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite.

For those who disagree, you're entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to insult others. We should be supportive of each other in our fight against Crohn's.


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## DustyKat

> I know some here rely more on natural remedies and believe that this will help the body heal itself. I support their desicion to manage their disease on their terms. For myself I use a combination of the two, and it has worked very well in my case. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite.
> 
> For those who disagree, you're entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to insult others. We should be supportive of each other in our fight against Crohn's.


Well said Jeanette! 

Dusty.


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## Dexky

I continue to read threads like this touting our former glorious close to the earth past and yet the average life expectancy has doubled in the last hundred years!!!  Long live science!!  I believe it is just common sense to eat less processed foods and yes the availability of fresh fruits and veggies due to refrigeration may be a huge factor in our life expectancy but so is medical advancement that is due in large part to genetic research.  Please, let's none of us discount either aspect of our good fortune.


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## rottengut91

Mountaingem said:


> I know some here rely more on natural remedies and believe that this will help the body heal itself. I support their desicion to manage their disease on their terms. For myself I use a combination of the two, and it has worked very well in my case. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite.
> 
> *For those who disagree, you're entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to insult others. We should be supportive of each other in our fight against Crohn's.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> I totally agree.  Well said Jeanette


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## vonfunk

With all of the overall diet related things I will admit that we don't eat as we are designed to eat.  Food technology has evolved far faster than we have, but with that said medical diagnosis technology has greatly improved as well so it might not be that instances of disease are increasing but are ability to detect them.  While no one may have heard of IBD or Lupus a few hundred years ago, blood letting was still a common treatment for most illnesses.


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## Entchen

I do agree to a point that many people do not eat what we are designed to eat. However, if we want to go back reaaaally far into history, we need to keep in mind that: 

1. The types of foods available to any one limited location were limited. Hence, people worldwide were eating many, many different diets (even though the basic building blocks might have been similar). 

2. Natural remedies were also limited in availability and thus in scope. Agave necter was available only in a few places, olive oil was only available in a few places, etc. 

Thus, I would venture that we are designed to be able to manage a wide variety of kinds of diets -- albeit perhaps all based on, again, a few basics such as naturally produced, fresh, relatively balanced nutrients, etc. And, we would have been severely limited in our access to natural remedies two, three thousand years ago.  

I believe that natural foods can play a role in wellness maintenance...but thank goodness for reliable research, sensible use of technology, and careful genetic research. I garden, buy at farmer's markets, cook from scratch, mostly avoid junk food and frozen dinners and take advantage of supplements that might help me stay well -- but I'm also a researcher (psych) and a supporter of those who are looking at the biological correlates of Crohn's.


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## juiceit

lynx said:


> "The truest characters of ignorance are vanity and pride and arrogance."
> Samuel Butler


Exactly, give up your pre-conceptions and open your mind to reality.


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## juiceit

Kelly said:


> I do agree to a point that many people do not eat what we are designed to eat. However, if we want to go back reaaaally far into history, we need to keep in mind that:
> 
> 1. The types of foods available to any one limited location were limited. Hence, people worldwide were eating many, many different diets (even though the basic building blocks might have been similar).
> 
> 2. Natural remedies were also limited in availability and thus in scope. Agave necter was available only in a few places, olive oil was only available in a few places, etc.
> 
> Thus, I would venture that we are designed to be able to manage a wide variety of kinds of diets -- albeit perhaps all based on, again, a few basics such as naturally produced, fresh, relatively balanced nutrients, etc. And, we would have been severely limited in our access to natural remedies two, three thousand years ago.
> 
> I believe that natural foods can play a role in wellness maintenance...but thank goodness for reliable research, sensible use of technology, and careful genetic research. I garden, buy at farmer's markets, cook from scratch, mostly avoid junk food and frozen dinners and take advantage of supplements that might help me stay well -- but I'm also a researcher (psych) and a supporter of those who are looking at the biological correlates of Crohn's.


We ate a variety.  That variety however wasn't anything processed at all, the opposite.  IT WAS RAW, LIVE, FOOD, MOSTLY PLANT BASED.

But the commonality around the world, wherever people were 'back then' was people at WHOLE foods.  NO chemicals.  NON processed.  NOT to excess.  

Also take a look, and you will see in those areas where there were exceptions and people at a lot of meat, like places plant life didn't flourish (like the arctic) - human life didn't flourish either!   That's not refutable.

Most people are not at a place they eat like you, and lean on that kind of argument as an excuse not to be healthy.  Like being defeated before you start.

And my question to anyone who says 'mostly' when talking about why they don't eat 100% what they think they should, or have habits they know or feel are wrong - smoking, lack of exercise, fake food - why not?  When you are popping the pills, or see people who sadly have had to had pieces of themselves cut out, why not?   When you aren't feeling well or haven't been for years, why not?


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## Entchen

Precisely. You've laid it out better than me -- i.e., often raw, whole, no additives, low meat and high in veg/plant based foods. Stories abound about those whose diets were restricted by geographic location or by attempts to travel, and how they suffered.

I say "mostly" because I think some deviations from my personal ideals for diet are okay -- in fact, I include those "deviations" as a *part* of my ideal. If I want to make an apple crumble instead of eating it raw, I think that's okay, as long as I'm not eating the crumble all the time. The other reason I say "mostly" is because I turn to Ensure when my symptoms are particularly bad, and I don't think there is much that's natural about Ensure, but it's the best I have found to date to get some nutrients into me when I can't tolerate food. I'm new to Crohn's and am confident that I'll be able to do better as my knowledge and understanding increases.


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## juiceit

Kelly said:


> Precisely. You've laid it out better than me -- i.e., often raw, whole, no additives, low meat and high in veg/plant based foods. Stories abound about those whose diets were restricted by geographic location or by attempts to travel, and how they suffered.


And that was nature's way of saying, you shouldn't be here doing that.  Technology has allowed us to push that, but the human body will likely never be understood.  To think we can design a diet to sustain ourselves, that is human arrogance to the highest degree.

The fortunate thing is we don't have to, it's all around us growing out of the ground - where we didn't destroy it or alter it selfishly, that is.


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## lynx

juiceit said:


> And that was nature's way of saying, you shouldn't be here doing that.  Technology has allowed us to push that, but the human body will likely never be understood.  To think we can design a diet to sustain ourselves, that is human arrogance to the highest degree.
> 
> The fortunate thing is we don't have to, it's all around us growing out of the ground - where we didn't destroy it or alter it selfishly, that is.


In my opinion I feel that one day we will have an understanding of a majority of disease that afflicts our bodies.  Medical science and science in general evolves constantly and if you look at the history of our disease as my GI pointed out,  just 10 to 15 years ago we did not have the biologics that are now commonly used in a lot of people...those drugs like remicade, humira and others. 

 These drugs were actually developed using genetic markers that were discovered in the Great Genome Mapping Project funded mainly by the US government Department of Energy (granted world wide participation in the later course of the project helped greatly to complete it.)

I say Great Genome Mapping Project because this is just the very beginning of a new age of medical discovery and potential and this project happens to be one of the greatest things that mankind has done for the future of our race in medical terms.  We are at the forefront and have a long way to go.  I am optimistic that we shall have the cures for a lot of "incurable" and horrible conditions down the road.   

To say the very least, our condition, our disease, is a complicated disease that is the result of many different variables from genetics to environment to diet to possible acute injury to a site, is a deplorable understatement. That is one reason there are very little answers to WHY we get it and HOW to cure it. As of now THERE IS NO CURE. 

 I am skeptical (actual member of the Skeptics Society) towards anything presented as a panacea (a cure all)  for ANY condition that we suffer.  This includes a drug or diet.  The scientific evidence overwhelmingly shows otherwise.

Diet and the quality of our food plays an important role in our overall health obviously.  But it is also just one piece of the puzzle.  There are theories for the reasons we have this disease some involve diet and some do not.  

The third world theories abound....some say it is parasitic infection that keeps people from contracting the disease there in third world countries. Some say it is because of the high fiber in their diet. NONE OF THESE HAVE BEEN PROVEN.  NONE.  Although, both of these things may be a factor.

It is important for us, again in my opinion, to keep an open mind about all these things and it is important to be informed with sound scientific evidence rather than pseudoscience or conjecture.


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## juiceit

lynx said:


> I am skeptical (actual member of the Skeptics Society) towards anything presented as a panacea (a cure all)  for ANY condition that we suffer.  This includes a drug or diet.  The scientific evidence overwhelmingly shows otherwise.
> 
> Diet and the quality of our food plays an important role in our overall health obviously.  But it is also just one piece of the puzzle.  There are theories for the reasons we have this disease some involve diet and some do not.


That's a shame.  They're not just theories, they work.  They worked for me, they have worked for countless others who have tried them all-out with no compromises.


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## lynx

juiceit said:


> That's a shame.  They're not just theories, they work.  They worked for me, they have worked for countless others who have tried them all-out with no compromises.


Actually i have tried and am currently eating a natural diet...I have been on a natural and organic diet since 2006. I also suffered this summer the worst flare that I have had.  I was in the hospital the entire month of September.

Being a skeptic means that I do not take things at face value.  I look at all the evidence and I make a rational choice based on what is presented.  I hardly think that is a shame.  It means I use my mind. I use science but instead of just using tools science has created...like the very computer you are looking at, I use the methods of science to make choices about my life and specifically about this disease as that is what we are talking about.  If you are interested in learning more about critical thinking and what pseudoscience is and how to spot it because a lot of times it pretends to be real science you can go to Skeptic.com. 

I am sorry but all the diets for IBD  that are talked about ARE theories. They are not proven.  There are no scientifically based studies that prove that diet alone will put someone who is diagnosed with Crohns Disease into a state of remission.  NONE. 

If you have one please post it I would love to see it.  In fact any claim that is made when dealing with something as serious as a disease and a "cure" for a disease should be backed up with something credible rather than hearsay or "it works cause it worked for me".  That sounds like something someone selling snake oil in the old west that cures everything from gout to whooping cough to issues of the most personal nature would say.  lol.

If you believe that is what is working for you thats great.  If there are countless people out there who are doing the same thing thats wonderful too...there is NO evidence that it is the diet though. It could be a ton of different things that people are attributing to the diet and the diet actually has nothing to do with it. And so far that is what all the evidence shows. 

Personally I wish it were as simple as going on a specific diet.  Or taking one drug or doing something and the disease would be gone.  Unfortunately that is not the case...
Even by your own admission you still take Ensure when you have issues...so obviously this diet you talk about has not cured you.


----------



## juiceit

lynx said:


> .
> Even by your own admission you still take Ensure when you have issues...so obviously this diet you talk about has not cured you.


When did I ever say that?  I never said I still take Ensure.  Last I touched that was about 10 years ago, and I took it when a Dr. recommended it.  I think that stuff is bad for you, fake food with the minerals and vitamins and calories people think we need to survive - but none of the life giving nutrients that we need as well, without which we have no life.

I think I suggested instead in another thread, to try juicing and some as much or little fibre and in another post called Ensure and fake food a huge part of the problem.

I mean if you should be 180lbs and you weigh 90 and the Dr. is saying drink it and or giving it IV, I would agree.  I think we need to separate trauma care from long term treatment.  But if you are not on death's doorstep I would stay away.

In terms of an example as proof diet works?  I'm living it today.  You won't get a drug company to fund that study, so you won't find them.  The banana industry won't fund that study, just bananas don't work. The apple industry won't fund that study, apples alone don't work.

The only studies you are likely to see results for, are studies of how changing 1 aspect of your life will make a difference (maybe 2 or 3 in drug cocktails).  I believe we need to look at us as a system, not how 1 thing in isolation changes us.


----------



## juiceit

lynx said:


> Actually i have tried and am currently eating a natural diet...I have been on a natural and organic diet since 2006. I also suffered this summer the worst flare that I have had.  I was in the hospital the entire month of September.


Do you maintain a food diary, can you share in its whole entirity what exactly you had eaten, day to day for an extended time so that we can learn from what didn't work?  I would love to see exactly what you eat that does not seem to be working for you to incorporate that into what I do and I'm sure others would as well.

Please share the exact details and diaries if you have them.


----------



## lynx

yeah i dont know where it is about the ensure..and i am sorry if i got that wrong.  
The actual point that im trying to make is really simple...this forum has tons of people coming to it and seeking advise about something that they are new too or need comforting because of...a very nasty condition we have been diagnosed with or think we may have or a loved one or friend has.  It is a clearing house for us lay people to get together and talk and share. 

Even people who present advise that is medically sound put a disclaimer in that advise saying usually....I AM NOT A DOCTOR OR ..... DO NOT TAKE THIS ADVISE WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT OF A DOCTOR....
and all I am saying is that people need to know that what works for you or me MAY NOT WORK FOR THEM ...and there are facts, like there IS NO CURE at the moment, that can not be even argued sanely against. 

Don't get me wrong i agree with you in a lot of what you say about the health care system in general..About how there are some doctors that are just not worth a spit...and there are other things you have said that i am right behind you on.  

And yes they have done studies on diet with this disease...i will hunt them down if you want and post links...they have also done studies on if it is stress that causes it...i will hunt those down too...and post links...

Bottom line though I think if you post a possible cure you should say this is a possible cure ...although there is nothing to back this up ...it could work...you can still evangelize your cause...hell i do all the time..tell people that they should eat better...stop eating fast foods...etc.  but you can do it without possibly jeopardizing someone else health.  

Instead of saying this blank blank cures it and that is it..you could say this is what worked for me ...this is what i did...it may not work for you. Not only would someone completely new to this whole mess be safe guarded so would you. Would you want someone to try something that may cause them more pain and suffering based upon advise you gave?  I know i wouldn't.   Again. for certain there are ideas and things you have spoke about that i agree with and have thought the same thing for years. And I know there are arguments that you could say that would directly challenge, based on your stance about the diet thing, what i say.  I am not a person who backs the AMA (american medical association) blindly...remember I am a skeptical of all sides.  

I still would love it if you would post some of your favorite juice recipes...lol...i am a newbie to the juice thing...got any good ones you could share?


----------



## lynx

oh i dont have any food diaries.  I eat basically organic raw foods. I bake without wheat as i am allergic to it.  I eat cheeses and other organic meats and fish...eggs etc.  I buy mostly locally grown organic produce and try to get locally butchered meats and dairy.  Sometimes that is difficult but i manage.  it does cost a fortune though...

I am not that meticulous.  Nor do i wish to be in keeping a diary.  Although in finding out what i was allergic to i did an elimination diet and found i was allergic to wheat but that was it.  i also had an allergist do a panel study on me as well around the same time...so the wheat allergy was confirmed.  

There must be a balance in life no matter what the subject.  If you over do anything it becomes a chore and life becomes boring.  I try to maintain a balance.  And yeah sometimes I eat to enjoy the food.  There are foods that I enjoy that I know are not good for me. but that is ok.


Oh and as far as trying to figure out what went wrong with my diet?  Nothing.  My diet is fine.  My body decided to attack itself. The drug therapy that I am on right now is helping calm that down. In following my doctors orders and doing what I need to do I should be ok after a while.  

I was just wondering what type of education do you have? Is it in a medical field? Is it in nutrition? Just curious.


----------



## juiceit

lynx said:


> I AM NOT A DOCTOR OR ..... DO NOT TAKE THIS ADVISE WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT OF A DOCTOR....


A Dr. is someone that society has rubber stamped to use their knowledge of approved health practices to make money by charging people.

I charge nobody anything, I am here because what I know is applicable to what many here are going through, and I found something that has allowed me to break on through to the other side.  I am not a Dr., nor do I agree that a Dr. is the be all and end all when it comes to health.

I am not a dietitian and don't have any medical training.  I immersed myself into life, living naturally, for years now.  I've witnessed many many quacks and I've witnessed many many legitimate people knocked down.

I do have a science/math/technology based degree complete with the university bio, chem, math - all the tough stuff.  So the way of thinking and the subject matter isn't beyond me to understand and it's not all magical, I get how it works and what people are taught in school, how the science dogma works.

Interesting story about one of the first articles I read (by a Dr.).  It was a Dr. of philosophy, and he did articles about the medical establishment's slow acceptance of new realization and understanding, and how they are way behind our modern understanding of health.

He used the example of the first person who is credited with proving that stomach ulcers are curable by antibiotics.  He was called a quack, not given credit by the medical community for years and years and years.  He was able to make himself sick, cure himself.  Make himself sick, cure himself.  

I believe he won some kind of award like a nobel or something, but can't recall exactly. 

Anyway, point is at the time this was 'officially' recognized and for years later, doctors practicing in the field and teaching in schools still did not officially recognize his work or results and the new treatments.  Some still do not today.

He went through hell to get recognized something he could prove to anyone at anytime by making himself sick, making himself better.  Make himself sick, make himself better.  That is the reality of the medical machine, and there is LOTS of information sharing going on lately with the Internet & modern communication technology - much of it quackery - but much of it opening people's eyes to what is going on around the world.


----------



## juiceit

lynx said:


> There must be a balance in life no matter what the subject.  If you over do anything it becomes a chore and life becomes boring.


I totally agree.  And along those lines, what I have found is with food, when your body needs to heal, you need ALOT more than a normal diet, or ALOT of time on it with nothing that caused that in the first place to counteract that.

Look at nutritional intake required to maintain body tissue for example.  If you are in a disease state like crohn's, that tissue is damaged.  You need not just what is required to maintain it, you need an abundance because extra is required by your body to repair it, as well as deal with other affects from not being in optimal health.  If it's out of balance, you need to restore that balance, so you need to counterbalance with a lot more than usual.


----------



## lynx

juiceit said:


> I totally agree.  And along those lines, what I have found is with food, when your body needs to heal, you need ALOT more than a normal diet, or ALOT of time on it with nothing that caused that in the first place to counteract that.
> 
> Look at nutritional intake required to maintain body tissue for example.  If you are in a disease state like crohn's, that tissue is damaged.  You need not just what is required to maintain it, you need an abundance because extra is required by your body to repair it, as well as deal with other affects from not being in optimal health.  If it's out of balance, you need to restore that balance, so you need to counterbalance with a lot more than usual.


I am not going to debate this anymore but this is not actually true. In the mechanism of cellular regeneration you do not necessarily need to add more nutrition for the body to repair itself....actually there is a lot evidence that the contrary is true.  Meaning that that body actually repairs itself and can repair itself more efficiently on a reduced caloric and nutrient intake...but there again the debate is over on my end we will just agree to disagree lol. and ya..still want a recipe or two for the juicer...lol...j/k


----------



## Entchen

juiceit said:


> You won't get a drug company to fund that study, so you won't find them.  The banana industry won't fund that study, just bananas don't work. The apple industry won't fund that study, apples alone don't work.
> .


Respectfully, this is why there exist national research organizations. They fund a great deal of research in a large variety of areas. Research is not entirely tied to industry, although there certainly are those ties (and industry / research are often "enmeshed").

Udpated To Add: They fund individual researchers affiliated with major research universities to conduct the research at arm's length from the funders. The institutions are the funders and certainly do not conduct the research themselves -- nor are they decision makers about what is done with the results  of the research.
[Disclosure: posted by a researcher]


----------



## juiceit

lynx said:


> I am not going to debate this anymore but this is not actually true. In the mechanism of cellular regeneration you do not necessarily need to add more nutrition for the body to repair itself....actually there is a lot evidence that the contrary is true.  Meaning that that body actually repairs itself and can repair itself more efficiently on a reduced caloric and nutrient intake...but there again the debate is over on my end we will just agree to disagree lol. and ya..still want a recipe or two for the juicer...lol...j/k


Then stop being so negative. Add your own constructive thought.  Why are you arguing with me?  You attack what I have to say, then say oh I'm done...what are you scared of?

I'm not arguing with you about what you do with medicine - and the proof of the effectiveness in that is in how healthy you live your life.  It seems to be a mantra among you and people attacking me that well this healthy eating only works on some people - so does your medicine!  How many medications, cocktails, combinations, tapering off's of artificial chemical concoctions have people been on here, have you been on?   How many people are clinging to some resemblance of a normal life, while downing these concoctions and paying through the nose for them?

There are people who let their bodies decay to the point they need to be forklifted out of their houses, and they are entitled to that.  It's about the quality of life you want vs. what you don't want to give up to achieve it and nothing more.

And I am shocked the number of people who would rather close their eyes, get knocked out and let someone cut into them, rather than at least give an alternative to that an honest go.

Please don't put down people eating healthy, you don't help anyone, you don't make them worse, you give them an ally with your defeatist attitude.


----------



## juiceit

Kelly said:


> Respectfully, this is why there exist national research organizations. They fund a great deal of research in a large variety of areas. Research is not entirely tied to industry, although there certainly are those ties (and industry / research are often "enmeshed").


And they come up with dietary guidelines, of which most people in the countries they live don't follow. 

And respectfully to you, those same institutions do things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable

They tried to make ketchup count as a vegetable in their dietary guidelines!

Yes, this is who is looking after our health.  Amazing isn't it?


----------



## lynx

juiceit said:


> Then stop being so negative. Add your own constructive thought.  Why are you arguing with me?  You attack what I have to say, then say oh I'm done...what are you scared of?
> 
> I'm not arguing with you about what you do with medicine - and the proof of the effectiveness in that is in how healthy you live your life.  It seems to be a mantra among you and people attacking me that well this healthy eating only works on some people - so does your medicine!  How many medications, cocktails, combinations, tapering off's of artificial chemical concoctions have people been on here, have you been on?   How many people are clinging to some resemblance of a normal life, while downing these concoctions and paying through the nose for them?
> 
> There are people who let their bodies decay to the point they need to be forklifted out of their houses, and they are entitled to that.  It's about the quality of life you want vs. what you don't want to give up to achieve it and nothing more.
> 
> And I am shocked the number of people who would rather close their eyes, get knocked out and let someone cut into them, rather than at least give an alternative to that an honest go.
> 
> Please don't put down people eating healthy, you don't help anyone, you don't make them worse, you give them an ally with your defeatist attitude.





Lets make some things clear shall we?  

I was not attacking you BUT I am challenging what you are saying.  I am challenging it because nothing (i  will say that again) nothing of what you have said is able to be proven.  I guess I didn't make myself clear the first time around.  

You don't believe me?  I challenge you to put up proof that anything you say is scientifically proven.  ANYTHING. SPECIFICALLY THAT YOU HAVE FOUND THE CURE TO CROHNS DISEASE IN A DIET.  Because that is my problem with what you have said. 

I don't have a defeatist attitude either. You are taking the typical road of someone who can not back up their claims therefore they go on the personal attack.  This is normal.  I didn't expect anything different from the onset of this from you actually.  

Instead of trying to put credibility behind what you say...provide some evidence of fact that anything you say is true. e.g. diet is a cure for this disease ...you attack me personally.  Way to go!  I have never attacked you personally. 

I am done debating with you. It is foolish to debate someone who can not provide evidence to his argument and insists they are correct just because they say so.  That is what I said.
I can back up everything I say by people who dedicate their lives to the study and treatment of this disease and related diseases.  

You want to attack me personally?  fine.  That doesn't bother me a bit. 

You have nothing to back up what you say. You have no evidence other than ...it works for me... to prove anything.  When you say you have the cure you better have evidence to support that. That is all I am trying to say. I am not condemning you because you OR anyone wants to be healthy or eat healthy…how absurd is that statement. LOL. 

If you wish to live in a world where you make up your own rules that is fine.  I have no problems with that.  I have a problem when you come to a public forum and state as fact those things which are not. Simple.  

You think I am being defeatist because I think what you say is not proven by science?  That is an interesting argument.  You think I am afraid "scared" (0f something) because i no longer wish to debate with you? Another interesting point.  Pure rubbish both of them but interesting none the less. 

Whatever works for you is great. To suggest to others to try what you did or do is great too...to say without proof and without evidence that what you do is the cure and have nothing to back it up is irresponsible. 

If you have evidence present it. If you don't,  my debate with you is over.
If you wish to further attack me personally ... it will stand as proof of your character. Attack away.


----------



## juiceit

lynx said:


> I challenge you to put up proof that anything you say is scientifically proven.  ANYTHING. SPECIFICALLY THAT YOU HAVE FOUND THE CURE TO CROHNS DISEASE IN A DIET.  Because that is my problem with what you have said.


The sun goes up, the sun goes down, it doesn't matter what the clouds are doing...

Really you absoultely need need need to see something accepted by 'science' before you can accept it?

LOL

That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

I guess you don't do believe in any of the following:

The Speed of Light
The Placebo Effect
Yawning
Dreaming
Blushing
Consciousness
Existence
Life

But I bet you believed in Santa and the Easter Bunny as a kid...

You know what, keep popping your pills.  Live in pain.  Call me defensive call me names.  I'm not the one living in pain.

I guess society is there to protect people like you from yourself.  You can't take care of yourself so you pay some money and someone else will, so you think.

What I can say if you care, and I know you don't, is there are an untold number of people telling their stories just like I am.  And just like I am we all get put back into our place by people like you and the status quo.  If your health is really that important go find them, talk to them, see them yourself.  I know it's not that important to you, you'd rather just complain about it and bash anyone who might say something you don't believe.  You would rather wait for someone else to do something and be told this is right, without the understanding,  having actually read the research or have the ability to comprehend it if you saw it.  Honestly, did you read all the information about the drugs you are taking?  All the studies, the formulation, the pathology, all the trials, all the failures, all the side effects, the motives and character of the people and companies pushing all of - that or did you get the coles notes version from an approved source you were told to believe, and do.

You are closed minded, obedient, sick - the perfect person.  The perfect person for someone to control, to be tied to your job, to be dependent and able to be manipulated by someone you are told is superior to you.  Absolutely perfect.

You've been trained to be devoid of all original thought or acceptance of anything that doesn't come from someone you are told is a valid expert.

You would be the person shouting burn the witch, don't let that black person vote, don't let women work, kill them and their herecy the earth isn't round it's flat, don't cross the ocean you'll fall into hell and let's sacrifice that virgin so the summer will come again.  I'm not saying you see black people blindly - i'm saying you are the type of person who will fall in line and roll over to what you are told by these sources that keep letting you down, to the point you will suffer and die for it.  That's blind faith, open your eyes.

Keep on keeping on, where would we be without people like you - oh right, the garden of eden.


----------



## lynx

juiceit said:


> The sun goes up, the sun goes down, it doesn't matter what the clouds are doing...
> 
> Really you absoultely need need need to see something accepted by 'science' before you can accept it?
> 
> LOL
> 
> That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.
> 
> I guess you don't do believe in any of the following:
> 
> The Speed of Light
> The Placebo Effect
> Yawning
> Dreaming
> Blushing
> Consciousness
> Existence
> Life
> 
> But I bet you believed in Santa and the Easter Bunny as a kid...
> 
> You know what, keep popping your pills.  Live in pain.  Call me defensive call me names.  I'm not the one living in pain.
> 
> I guess society is there to protect people like you from yourself.  You can't take care of yourself so you pay some money and someone else will, so you think.
> 
> What I can say if you care, and I know you don't, is there are an untold number of people telling their stories just like I am.  And just like I am we all get put back into our place by people like you and the status quo.  If your health is really that important go find them, talk to them, see them yourself.  I know it's not that important to you, you'd rather just complain about it and bash anyone who might say something you don't believe.  You would rather wait for someone else to do something and be told this is right, without the understanding,  having actually read the research or have the ability to comprehend it if you saw it.  Honestly, did you read all the information about the drugs you are taking?  All the studies, the formulation, the pathology, all the trials, all the failures, all the side effects, the motives and character of the people and companies pushing all of - that or did you get the coles notes version from an approved source you were told to believe, and do.
> 
> You are closed minded, obedient, sick - the perfect person.  The perfect person for someone to control, to be tied to your job, to be dependent and able to be manipulated by someone you are told is superior to you.  Absolutely perfect.
> 
> You've been trained to be devoid of all original thought or acceptance of anything that doesn't come from someone you are told is a valid expert.
> 
> You would be the person shouting burn the witch, don't let that black person vote, don't let women work, kill them and their herecy the earth isn't round it's flat, don't cross the ocean you'll fall into hell and let's sacrifice that virgin so the summer will come again.  I'm not saying you see black people blindly - i'm saying you are the type of person who will fall in line and roll over to what you are told by these sources that keep letting you down, to the point you will suffer and die for it.  That's blind faith, open your eyes.
> 
> Keep on keeping on, where would we be without people like you - oh right, the garden of eden.





My point is proven.  I need to say nothing else to you. LOL!


----------



## juiceit

lynx said:


> My point is proven.  I need to say nothing else to you. LOL!


Yep I knew you wouldn't.  Pretend to take the high ground after you mouth off but don't stick around to defend yourself.  I guess someone will do it for you like everything else...


----------



## Guest

SEEING AS WE'RE RESORTING TO CAPITAL LETTERS TO MAKE OUR POINTS IN THIS THREAD... i thought i'd start off by doing the same. let's see... what other rules do i need to follow to play this game? erm... insult someone.. ok, ~~~looks around, can't see anyone~~~ damn. well, i'll just prattle on about something which might actually be interesting but i guess i'll just bore everyone stupid by overloading them with far too much information which i am stuffing down their throats, uninvited, and then i'll get all sulky if anyone doesn't agree with my way of doing things....

have i got it right?



i am fed up of this kind of stupid, childish crap going on, on this forum. Juiceit - whatever brought you to this forum (and i have a fair idea) it was not your desire to help, support or care for fellow sufferers of IBD. most of our members realised that very early on... and your pms to me over the past few hours have done nothing to make me believe there is anything likeable about you whatsoever. you invited me to post the content of those pms.... i will refuse that invitation, because i think your attitude is diabolical.

Juiceit you are permanently banned. if you have a problem with that, send a complaint to the admin email address.


----------



## 2thFairy

thank you, dingbat and any/all admin. involved.


----------



## Mountaingem

:emot-waycool:Thank you Dingbat, for restoring peace to our forum!


----------



## lynx

sorry for the caps...will keep those nil in the future.


----------



## TMos

Smiling Bob is gone?  lol!


----------



## Miss Spencer

lynx said:


> I am sorry but all the diets for IBD  that are talked about ARE theories. They are not proven. There are no scientifically based studies that prove that diet alone will put someone who is diagnosed with Crohns Disease into a state of remission.  NONE. If you have one please post it I would love to see it.


David Klein of the 'Colitis & Crohns Health Recovery Centre' promotes that he has totally reversed his IBD with diet and has been in total remission for years. 

Here are the websites. My linking does not seem to be working correctly, so you will have to do the http://www part yourself:

colitis-crohns.com/about.html

And there is another well known guy called Paul Nison, who promotes the same thing.

paulnison.com/about-paul

There is also another well known guy whose name slips my mind, who says he reversed his Crohns with just diet.

Plus there is another guy that I know, who has done the same thing.

My doctor told me that diet would not have any significant impact on UC. But I have realised from my own experiences that he is wrong. Things like high fibre whole foods, meat, wheat, dairy and alcohol will give me terrible pain, mucus in my stools and blood loss.

Fasting or vegetable juicing is the best thing for me during a flare.

But everyone is different.


----------



## vonfunk

I have a hard time trusting a guy who has nine different websites, all of which are slightly different, but say the same thing.


----------



## Mountaingem

I don't like Jordan Ruben's religious angle-like other people are sick and suffering because The Maker [God] didn't help _them_.

I also don't believe any one treatment can be used for such a wide variety of ailments-every thing from acne to cancer to fibromyalgia???


----------



## Nytefyre

My opinion, the book is crap.  I regifted it to my dad. He loves it.


----------



## Miss Spencer

Nytefyre said:


> My opinion, the book is crap. I regifted it to my dad. He loves it.


There are some points I don't agree with, but overall I like it. 

But not yet read the whole thing. 

The website says:

A 40-day plan for healthy weight loss that focuses on what foods to eat, correct food preparation, and the importance of food quality.

A system of advanced hygiene to reduce stress on the immune system. 
A proven plan to ensure emotional, mental and spiritual health. 
A powerful detoxification program. 
An exercise program that works. 
A comprehensive buyer’s guide to take the “guesswork” out of healthy shopping. 

I am doing something very similar, and it is working for me.


----------



## Awbrey

I really love this book and love the vitamins from garden of life they have made me feel so much better


----------



## crohns5-0

well? has this worked for anyone? I'm debating over the Maker's diet or SCD diet......


----------



## RFarmer

I've read the book. I am religious, and found it to be too religious. The author seems to have no sense of spirituality aside from affirming that everything good in the world is God's, and everything bad is not. 

Vay irritating. 

The anti-medication, anti-vitamin, anti-everything gets ridiculous. Sure, he raises some valid points about processsed foods and gastro health. But he justifies it with made up crap that makes me just not want to read. I have an autoimmune disease; my body's immune system is not working right. To tell me that I should quit my medication and let my body do what it wants... I'm sorry, but that's the most dumbass idea ever. 

Annoying religious quotes (even for a religious person), made up science, and ignorant assumptions make it not worth it.


----------



## DustyKat

Bump for Zac. 

Dusty.


----------



## kiny

I don't like these books, well I hate them.

The writers often are actually not suffering from a condition at all, or have minor symptoms, which puts their whole "cured" into question. When you're in the hospital with major symptoms, need a transfusion, have inflammation, need iron or are dehydrated you want a doctor next to you, not some guy who writes about carrots.

They never explain why foods are good or bad for you, they never tested this in labs. They say a,b,c has carbohydrates, they don't like carbohydrates (for whatever non-scientific made up reason) therefore food a,b,c is not good for you. So they looked at one specific substance in a food group and completely ignore anything else.

They also use these books as a cure for everything, ... it's not because they actually believe this, it's because if you target the widest audience possible, your book will sell more. If they said "book for >insert some rare disease<" they would never sell, and that's why you never see books targeted at rare diseases.

All of these books contradict each other, it's ridiculous, you can pick up two books that are supposed to be good diets for crohn's and both (and I have done this), will tell you the complete opposite.

Their books are always overpriced. You can read free lab tests online, but the one who didn't do any lab tests is selling his book for $40+. For what, he just has a simple idea that can be explained in 2 pages, he doesn't like carb, he doesn't like sugar, and he likes fish because his dad was a healthy fisherman. Golly.

Books like these should be illegal, because people with serious conditions should get professional help by people they can trust, not by some guy who bought his degree in wallmart.

The fact that he makes a religious spin is just icing on the cake.

You can argue that everyone has a right to believe / use whatever they want. That's fine, but there is a limit to what should be able to land on the book shelves and what shouldn't. There would be no way this would be allowed to be published 20 years ago.


----------



## billyjoel

A relative gave me this book and told me it would change my life, I said thank you, took it home, put it up on my book shelf, and then a year later, I have never even touched it... lol; I am a skeptic of the worst kind haha


----------



## 723crossroads

I used to eat so healthy, so many fresh veggies and fruits and lean meats and not much at all in the way of processed foods. I love to cook and always make my own food for dinners. Etc... Why then did I get crohn's? I just can't buy into the belief that our diet played a role. I get our produce from the Amish people and they are very careful of their growing practices. 
Now, because of my crohn's I can't eat raw veggies or fruits or even half the things I ate that were healthy: so I was taught all my life. Whole grains etc...
I think stress has more to do with it. I have had an extremely stressful life all my life. I won't go into details about it. But am convinced that the stress started the process of losing my good health. I even ended up with cancer three yrs. ago. I never would've believed it were possible because of all the greens and healthy foods I ate. IDK, I just know that without my faith in God, I would not still be here. I am being careful about what drugs they put me on. Researching them and saying, I don't want to take that because it increases my risk to get cancer again. It is my body, my life. We have a right to say No about the drugs we are put on. Your Dr. is not God. He is just a schooled person making guesses as to what may help you. Do your best to correct you eating to fit your personal crohn's problems. I learned pretty quickly what causes flares. These are my own personal opinions and I hope I have helped someone else along the way. Blessings and love, T:heart:


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## wildbill_52280

jordin Rubin has used two of the mentally weakest groups of people to sell vitamins, supplements and books to- 
1.The Religious- once something is associated with the bible or with religion, these people pretty much see it as blasphemic to question it, and therefore are very easy to sell to and will believe almost anything, they feel they are obligated to choose this brand of vitamins, and also, read his books which are also associated with religion and the bible and jesus.

2. The hopelessly ill and sick- his story about turning his crohn's disease around through diet alone is inspiring, but just another gimmick to sell books and vitamins, and is obviously false, once you actually have crohn's disease or do some real reseach on it, you'll know how unlikely to impossible this story is.


Also, the book where he originnally claimed to heal his crohns , he does not even sell it or associate with it anymore. 
here is his book Patient heal thyself on amazon.com- http://www.amazon.com/Patient-Heal-Thyself-Remarkable-Groundbreaking/dp/1893910245

now here is his website where the book cannot be found for sale-http://www.jordanrubin.com/JordansBooks/tabid/1466/Default.aspx

so he doesnt even sell a book he wrote anymore? very strange.
if you look at the supposed before and after pics of him on the cover of this book, the guy in the before photo doesnt even look like him, but you have to examine it close up to tell. its all just too shady.


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## Ya noy

723crossroads said:


> Your Dr. is not God.


And neither is Rubin Jordan.   I'm also fairly certain that God did not die and name Mr. Jordan as his successor either.  

I don't think all the chemical additives in preprocessed foods are the healthiest substances to eat, but in addition to the many natural foods that may be healthy to consume, God made poisonous mushrooms too. 

Guess I'm just saying the title of the book alone upsets me, because it implies knowledge based on a privileged relationship that does not exist. At minimum, it is deceptive and misleading, if not downright fraudulent.  

Children under the age of a year old have been diagnosed with Crohns, so while it's possible that stress may be a contributing factor, or "trigger" in some cases, it's unlikely in others.  

I believe that more than likely, there is an actual cause and scientific explanation, and with additional research, we may one day even find out what it is.  Just not today.  

In the meantime,  I do feel it is important to experiment with various food groups to learn what might trigger a flare, or help ease symptoms.  There are various diets which can assist in identifying and isolating these food groups, including this one.  In that respect, might be of some use, to some.  

For others, it's still not completely useless, as it can be used as a bad example.


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## jac521

Don't like Jordan Rubin and I wouldn't touch any of his "supplements".  To each their own, but don't feel like there is a "one size fits all" diet for everyone.    Just my two cents.

Jac


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## rollinstone

He's pretty much just used concepts from paleo and put his own spin on it...


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