# Dr. Borody's Dietzia clinical trial obtaining astonishing results



## perfectjelly (Aug 29, 2015)

In recent communications with Dr. Click, the patent owner of Dietzia, it was mentioned that "So far all participants in Borody's 2 month trial all had their clinical symptoms returned to normal."

I am well aware that this information may be biased, but i'm waiting anxiously for the trial results to be published.

I am an absolute believer in the MAP central role in Crohn's, and so far, Dietzia had incredible results in animal studies with zero side effects, and with true curative potential. 

Is anyone in this forum involved in Borody's trial?


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## Lady Organic (Aug 29, 2015)

thx, interesting indeed, could you post the link to the info please? Dietza is a probiotic?


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## JMC (Aug 30, 2015)

The clinical trial details are here: http://www.cdd.com.au/pages/research/current_studies.html#dietzia

There is a phone number you can call for more details.


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## JMC (Aug 30, 2015)

More details here:
https://www.anzctr.org.au/Trial/Registration/TrialReview.aspx?id=366224

and here:
http://www.omicsonline.org/a-potent...f-bovine-johnes-disease-2161-1068.1000117.pdf


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## Lady Organic (Aug 30, 2015)

what about the very positive priliminary report as mentionned by Perfectjelly?


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## perfectjelly (Aug 30, 2015)

Lady Organic, that was from someone with privileged information, we have to wait and hope the trial is published.

Yes, it is a probiotic with proven MAP full inhibition in cows. it's not available anywhere in capsule/powder form right now.

I hope attention comes to these studies and trials, he mentioned it's a 2 month trial but it's invitation only. Further trials will be very interesting to say the least, but we need to wait.


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## JMC (Aug 30, 2015)

It would be good to hear from @rollinstone who posted this previously: http://www.crohnsforum.com/showpost.php?p=848519&postcount=23


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## Lady Organic (Aug 30, 2015)

Im curious as the probiotic is in a milk base according to the product description. isnt MAP thought to be found in milk?


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## perfectjelly (Aug 31, 2015)

The microorganism was first isolated from johne's disease infected cow manure, maybe the milk is important for the microorganism survival and proliferation.


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## rollinstone (Aug 31, 2015)

JMC said:


> It would be good to hear from @rollinstone who posted this previously: http://www.crohnsforum.com/showpost.php?p=848519&postcount=23


That was what I heard from someone on anti-map therapy, which makes sense if you think about it because the antibiotics probably kill off the bacteria in dietza. I'm going to be talking to Borody soon, I'll see if he's at liberty to discuss the observed results so far.


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## perfectjelly (Aug 31, 2015)

rollinstone said:


> That was what I heard from someone on anti-map therapy, which makes sense if you think about it because the antibiotics probably kill off the bacteria in dietza. I'm going to be talking to Borody soon, I'll see if he's at liberty to discuss the observed results so far.


It's impossible to use triple MAP therapy and Dietzia together, the Dietzia must be viable, antibiotics will kill it.

I was thinking, Triple MAP therapy could be of great value to patients with long standing, very active disease (with many extraintestinal symptoms) , as a way to reduce the bacterial load during 24-36 months, then ending antibiotic treatment and starting Dietzia to take care of the rest of the MAP, after all antibiotics are excreted from the body.

In patients with mild disease, maybe Dietzia alone will prove to be sufficient.


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## irishgal (Sep 2, 2015)

I agree that some type of combo treatment, starting with AMAT and then something like EpiBro, Dietzia or the Vaccine may be the way to finally establish a cure. The docs talked about stuff like that at the symposium. Very excited about Dietzia in particular, because it's a probiotic and hopefully will have few or no side effects compared to meds.


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## recmlc (Sep 9, 2015)

[am trying to figure out how to send Future ....article so you can post it.  Not good at computers  and who /when did I talk with you.  In recent communications with Dr. Click, the patent owner of Dietzia, it was mentioned that "So far all participants in Borody's 2 month trial all had their clinical symptoms returned to normal."

I am well aware that this information may be biased, but i'm waiting anxiously for the trial results to be published.

I am an absolute believer in the MAP central role in Crohn's, and so far, Dietzia had incredible results in animal studies with zero side effects, and with true curative potential. 

Is anyone in this forum involved in Borody's trial?[/QUOTE]


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## recmlc (Sep 9, 2015)

[am trying to figure out how to send Future ....article so you can post it.  Not good at computers  and who /when did I talk with you.  In recent communications with Dr. Click, the patent owner of Dietzia, it was mentioned that "So far all participants in Borody's 2 month trial all had their clinical symptoms returned to normal."

I am well aware that this information may be biased, but i'm waiting anxiously for the trial results to be published.

I am an absolute believer in the MAP central role in Crohn's, and so far, Dietzia had incredible results in animal studies with zero side effects, and with true curative potential. 

Is anyone in this forum involved in Borody's trial?[/QUOTE]


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## irishgal (May 1, 2016)

New article giving some background and a summary of the published research about Dietzia:
http://thecrohnsinfection.org/whats-new/

Would love to see a trial on this therapy!


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## Scared1 (May 6, 2016)

I subscribe to both IBD news daily updates and updates from the ccfa. And yet, why don't they mention these things at all? That's so strange to be to not be all inclusive about any IBD related issue? Does anyone know the histoey behind that?


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## irishgal (May 6, 2016)

The CCFA will absolutely not talk about MAP. NOTHING on their site other than the info about the RedHill trial. Not promoting it, mind you, just listing it with all the others. Just for fun, go look at the major donors to the CCFA. All Big Pharma. AbbVie (Humira) sponsors their community website page.

And here's another fun story. I just found out this week that someone (no idea who) purchased the domain names of crohnsinfection.org/com days after the August 2015 Chicago symposium on MAP and have them redirecting to the CCFA. The MAP symposium site created in June 2015 (and what continues now) is called THECrohnsInfection.org/com. So many patients may be searching for the true MAP site, but get CCFA instead. Nice. Now why would ANYONE do that? And WHO would do that??

I'll check out IBD News daily and see who sponsors them too, but I have a good guess. ;-)


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## Scared1 (May 6, 2016)

irishgal said:


> The CCFA will absolutely not talk about MAP. NOTHING on their site other than the info about the RedHill trial. Not promoting it, mind you, just listing it with all the others. Just for fun, go look at the major donors to the CCFA. All Big Pharma. AbbVie (Humira) sponsors their community website page.
> 
> And here's another fun story. I just found out this week that someone (no idea who) purchased the domain names of crohnsinfection.org/com days after the August 2015 Chicago symposium on MAP and have them redirecting to the CCFA. The MAP symposium site created in June 2015 (and what continues now) is called THECrohnsInfection.org/com. So many patients may be searching for the true MAP site, but get CCFA instead. Nice. Now why would ANYONE do that? And WHO would do that??
> 
> I'll check out IBD News daily and see who sponsors them too, but I have a good guess. ;-)


Do you really think they would go to that level as to want to divert attention to a possible cure? Wouldn't then the same logic apply to those trying to develop the HIV vaccine? This whole thing confuses me a bit - I mean, I know for sure there is some incentive there, but finding a cure wouldnt that be MORE of an incentive even financially? look at the Heptatitis C "cure" and so on, how much non-curative medication was lost now that they found a way to eradicate it? I am just finding it difficult that all of the big pharma would be part of this big conspiracy against MAP, other than they don't see it so they don't believe it. There must be something more to it, I just hope within the next two years when the vaccine is out, that at least this case will be settled (pro-MAP of course


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## irishgal (May 6, 2016)

I don't think it's ALL a huge conspiracy. I think there are a lot of well meaning researchers who have latched on to the autoimmune hypothesis, and realized that CD patients have uncontrolled inflammation, so they make meds that interrupt the pathway of inflammation, thereby providing some relief. That's admirable when they have no idea what's causing the disease, but now that there's a proposed trigger and some serious research to back it up, they're not adjusting. 

I do think the CCFA is actively blocking MAP info and research. I've had a few in our group tell me that they ran into issues when they approached the CCFA. The MAP tshirts were allowed in the CCFA walk in Chicago, but they told me trying to promote MAP in the past would get your kicked out! I tried to approach a group about a grant, and they were very interested, until they heard it was MAP research. Was summarily dismissed, despite my miraculous recovery. Someone diverted a copycat site to the CCFA away from our MAP research site. They fund just about every type of CD research...except MAP. Again, I think there are a lot of great, compassionate people at the CCFA and they do some unique things like the kid's camp. They're a wealth of information on all sorts of CD stuff...except MAP. You'd think with a 20 year body of research, it would be mentioned somewhere on their site. For whatever reason, the CCFA just isn't a fan of MAP.

I hate conspiracies, and think that truth would prevail as well, but that's not what I've experienced. I've just had doors slammed in my face. The Selby study did a ton of damage, but it was done so poorly that the results are garbage. It will be very interesting to see what happens if RedHill comes out with positive results. Watch, and see what they do.


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## JMC (May 7, 2016)

I am not a believer in conspiracies and I believe in this day an age, it is very hard to orchestrate a campaign to suppress something like the MAP theory, _though not impossible_.  What we have at work are strong vested interests.  When that happens, people have a tendency to filter out information that they do not want to hear.  It is always easy to keep saying the proof is not good enough if you don't want it to be true.

If MAP is conclusively proven to be the cause of Crohn's it will have an enormous impact on the farming and food industries.  It also will have a huge impact on the big pharma companies that have been peddling immune suppression drugs for decades.  Dairy products make up a significant proportion of our Western diet.  If all cows with Johnes had to be destroyed, it would have a catastrophic effect on farmers.  If all food producers had to prove their products containing dairy were not contaminated with MAP, it would cost billions.

So, I don't believe in conspiracies, but I do believe that people's views can be distorted to dismiss things that financially, are strongly against their own self interest.


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## Clash (May 7, 2016)

CCFA does seem to fund MAP research unless I'm some how misunderstanding their site. If you look on their site under Grant Publications you can see where the grants have gone, this includes studies concerning different aspects of MAP

Here are some I found 

University of Wisconsin, Madison (U.S.A.) Comparison of three methods for susceptibility testing of Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis to 11 antimicrobial drugs

University of Otago (Dunedin, New Zealand) A novel cellular assay system to assess the ptoential role of Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis in the development and progression of Crohn's disease 

University of Central Florida (Orlando, U.S.A.) Role of Mycobacterium paratuberculosis (MAP) in family members with Crohn’s disease: genetic link and environmental influence

I don't think treatment being antibiotics would deter pharmaceutical companies. Look at Daraprim, or the gout med colchicine both were small beans as far as cost but pharmaceutical companies raised their costs astronomically. If it is found that a combo of antibiotics would treat CD they'd find a way to extract a profit, they wouldn't let the treatment being common meds slow them down.


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