# Learning how/what to eat



## 10trickpony (Sep 17, 2014)

After 3 years of struggling with a diagnosis..it is finally being confirmed that I have crohns disease.  I go back to my new dr tomorrow to discuss my course of treatment.  I am currently only taking prednisone 40 mg daily.  
It has been a challenge and sadly interesting to see what I can tolerate and what I cannot. 
I can tolerate baked potatoes with small amount of butter and salt, bland baked chicken (white meat only), and I can tolerate baked fish.  I can eat pasta with no sauce on it.

Do any of you have any simple recipes that fall along the bland category that I could possibly try??:shifty:

thanks!!


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## sidhol (Sep 18, 2014)

I suggest you to try Oatmeal .. Its quite easy to make and good for crohns disease.. You can find different types of it on internet


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## alex_chris (Sep 18, 2014)

> I can tolerate baked potatoes with small amount of butter and salt, bland baked chicken (white meat only), and I can tolerate baked fish. I can eat pasta with no sauce on it.


Hey there multitrickpony (just love the 10trickpony user name!). It's interesting to me that you can stomach baked potatoes and baked fish if you can't go for a lot of other things. I would have assumed water boiled potatoes (probably is a question of the potatoes) and lightly grilled or lightly pan cooked chicken or fish would work as well or better.

So here are a few recipes that work for me when I got problems (as I am in remission I eat pretty much everything, but avoid onions at all costs and avoid too oily, too spicy, too sweet, too fatty etc. foods).

1. Small cut skinless chickenbreast pieces fried with a tad of vegetable oil, no salt, just a bit of peper. Pan cook (you need a good pan...) and then a. Add cream and a bit of soup or if you do not have soup some water and salt or b. If you can't stomach cream, just add cut parsley or other herbs and if you like just for the taste squeeze a bit of lemon over it. Cook rice for the side. I cook rice by taking white rice, one cup, and exactly two cups water. Put both in a small pan, heat, when it cooks, tune down the heat to virtually nothing and after a while take Away from the stove.

Potentially, if that works for you, peal half a cucumber cut in pieces and serve as cucumber salad with a tad bit of veggie oil and only a tad of vinnegrette.

2. Evening 5-min bland thing: cook a bit of half water half milk (forget the milk, if you are lactose intolerant) in a pan, add oat flakes (needs to be flakes) and steer in, not too much, the flakes pick up the water/milk. Steer for while, move of them stove and let it rest. Cut a few pieces of a peach (remove skin first) or use a nektarine and put the porridge in a wide soup dish, put the slices of peach or nektarine on it so it is not that bland. Or eat with a few peaces of kiwi.

3. Cooked polenta: just cook water, steer in polenta, simmer for 10min or so, let it rest on the side for another 5 min, make sure there is enough water at first, you only need a bit of polenta, it soaks up the water. Put a piece of butter in it when steering. Add a bit of salt. Voila, you can eat it with a few pieces of salad on the side (if you can stomach it) or some pieces of cucumber or tomatoes ( if you can stomach that).

4. What about bread? Does bread work for you? Many people got problems with white bread but can stomach some other types of bread. What I like is focassia  (sort of a somewhat white Italian sandwich bread, not too soft) have some zuccini and/or aubergine fried in a pan with a tad bit of olive oil, sometimes just for the taste (but it's debatable if that won't get you into trouble) add a few pieces of sliced red pepper. Then put those veggies in the bread alongside mozzarella (does mozzarella work for you when cooked?) and toast or put in pre heated oven for 5 minutes. 

5. Strange as it sounds, but I used to eat those Catholic altar wafers in between meals when I got problems in the past. Not sure if you can buy those where you are (in cooking they are used to put cookie dough on them so the dough doesn't stick on the plate in the oven) they consist of one thing and one thing only, very thinly pressed wheat. It tastes like nothing, but it helps with intestine problems, at least it helps me.

6. Cook skinless chicken breasts (large chunks or the whole chicken breast) in pan with a bit of veggie oil. Season with pepper only. Add salt only at the end. Make sure it's cooked well. Take aside and cut in pieces. Again, it is a question of whether you can stomach green leaves - I take field salad (lamb's lettuce) and put just a bit of a lemon juice, veggie oil and mustard mixture on it for seasoning, put the chicken pieces on it and eat. Have some bread on the side if that works for you.

7. Quite honestly, sometimes the simplest things are the best if I really got problems. I have in the past often just toasted a few slices of darker bread (needs to be one without any visible grains) put some butter on it and had a camomile tea sweatened with a bit of honey with it. Or, if you want to be bold take some other form of bread you can stomach and put a bit of cooked bland ham on it and a piece of mozarella and put in the oven for a few minutes (not to long). Once again, to be enjoyed with lots of camomile tea with just a bit of honey. If you can stomach milk, you can try to do camomile tea with milk and a tad of honey....

I am sure there many more variations and lots of other things others use.


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## UnXmas (Sep 19, 2014)

Have you tried white rice? That's often well tolerated.


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## Justanothercp (Sep 21, 2014)

I'm sure everyone is different. But, I eat a paleo and low FODMAP diet. It has made a huge difference for me. It takes a commitment. But my results are worth it.


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## 10trickpony (Sep 23, 2014)

I appreciate all comments...and still on the journey to what I can and cannot eat. 

 I can tolerate oatmeal in the mornings and it is usually my go to breakfast.  

White rice is good on my tummy.  I tried boiled and  scrambled eggs this weekend with nothing but a sprinkle of salt and that was tolerated pretty well.  

I began a dose of new treatment of new medicines and praying that this makes a difference...


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## wellen1981 (Oct 16, 2014)

Justanothercp said:


> I'm sure everyone is different. But, I eat a paleo and low FODMAP diet. It has made a huge difference for me. It takes a commitment. But my results are worth it.


I'm kinda tinkering with the same approach but have to ask - what are your results...

I'm very much interested to know if you have ever had surgery or have avoided the knife (scalpel) so far, and are you on any meds?

I really wish i could find more people on here who are still all intact with Crohn's that are not taking any meds but are just dealing with the condition through strict dieting and diets of exclusion etc as that is what my gameplan is but i'm always exhausted especially after the loo (electrolytes, i know) and the brainfog i get is very counterproductive to getting back on my feet.

OP sorry to hijack but here's some food for thought... ba-dum-tish


Lactose, fructose and yeast - these are according to 'science' supposed to be the things the nasty stuff inside crohn's sufferers guts use to keep their numbers up and multiply further which has the end result of making us very unwell.

I am not lactose intolerant but switched to lacto-free milk after i proved to myself that normal milk was making me bad through diet of exclusion.
This can also get silly and then cheese could be tried in lactofree form - butter i could buy lacto free but i just buy the veg oil butter and it works well, kinda prefer it to reg butter to be honest

I am not religious but if i was and had to pray to a breakfast god it would be the cereal Rice Crispies as not only are they a good way to cover one of the 3 meals a day but with the lactofree milk it means its just like normal and im not having to eat them dry!

I swear by rice to be honest and also white rice for main meals as i did a lot of research including lurking on this forum reading what everyone would eat during bad flareups - i was looking for trends amongst everyone here to spot safe food types and rice kept coming up time and again - so i tried it and i can actually just eat rice crispies in the morning then a basic sandwich and then for evening meal i can eat rice on its own or with plain chicken or beef and if i keep eating rice it actually reverses some of my problems... ive had severe pain in my left side for 2 years and when i mainly stuck to just rice over a month ago the pain i could never shift went away and still hasnt returned!

The most important thing to remember when asking all people what they eat and what is safe is that some people here have things they can eat on my dont eat list - we are all different, you just gotta be the scientist and perform your own experiments and then rule stuff out - just try to really simplify what you eat though as if you have one safe thing with 2 unknown things - you wont learn anything as both unknowns could be bad or just one unknown for you, you should have tried 1 unknown at a time ;o)

Hope this helps you and others, I am still learning and very much interested in talking about food with any and everyone on here as it seems to be the key to staying out of trouble and off the meds for me - just need to fix my energy levels then i would say i am managiing my crohn's and i could get back on the 'life-ladder' properly again.

:soledance:


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## Stoner (Oct 16, 2014)

Wellen is right. White rice is a god send. Major part of my food storage. 
Do NOT eat iceburg lettuce and watch the whole grains. Even too much oatmeal bothers me.


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## wellen1981 (Oct 16, 2014)

Stoner said:


> Wellen is right. White rice is a god send. Major part of my food storage.
> Do NOT eat iceburg lettuce and watch the whole grains. Even too much oatmeal bothers me.


I cannot, for the life of me remember what it was specifically but there is an FDA paper on the content of a certain thing in vegetables or it might have been just in lettuce and it was proven to cause problems in people with crohns - the end result of my reading was that it said if you have to eat 1 veg/lettuce make it 'xyz' based on it having the lowest count of such-and-such in it.

Me personally i just avoid lettuce completely as i no longer digest it at all.

I know this isnt helpful but i will try to come back and edit this post with the paper if i can find it!


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## syzygy (Oct 16, 2014)

I've heard people talk about white rice often, but what about brown?  Has anyone heard of people having specific intolerances to that?


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## Stoner (Oct 16, 2014)

Brown still has the bran or outer skin. Not as easy on the digestive system.


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## wellen1981 (Oct 16, 2014)

syzygy said:


> I've heard people talk about white rice often, but what about brown?  Has anyone heard of people having specific intolerances to that?


Anything that is high in fibre is high-residual (meaning takes longer for your body to process) and that means harder work for a gut that is already suffering so brown rice is not a good rice for this reason.

This is my understanding from what i have read/researched/come to learn and i hope anyone corrects me if im wrong or confirms this if it holds true - this food thing is tricky as the safe/bad list varies from person to person but there are some common understandings and patterns trends at play here with regard to food.


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## Stoner (Oct 16, 2014)

Sounds right to me Wellen. My son and I have a hard time come late summer and fall when fresh produce is in abundance. We both LOVE fresh fruits and veggies but have to limit our consumption or we end up in a flare-up. Same with the whole grains. Seems so strange that something so good for you can treat your body so bad.


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## wellen1981 (Oct 16, 2014)

Stoner said:


> Sounds right to me Wellen. My son and I have a hard time come late summer and fall when fresh produce is in abundance. We both LOVE fresh fruits and veggies but have to limit our consumption or we end up in a flare-up. Same with the whole grains. Seems so strange that something so good for you can treat your body so bad.


Yeah i have often read that skins on fruit (eg apples) and veg (eg potatoes) are a bad idea due to being harder work for the body - its funny really (as-in not funny) if a normal healthy person was to look at what an IBD sufferer has to avoid food wise they would think the sufferer was mad as these to a normal person are very good choices eg fruit and veg.

The fruit that many advise to eat is banana (sometimes even just half a banana) it is a good source of potassium and im sure recently i also read that it aides in replenishing lost electrolytes but only in a small positive impact but still worth it.

Here in the UK i was given procedure prep in scotland and in england before colonosc and the english nhs had really good specific info on what foods were ok to have in the lead up to the procedure before you have to starve - they work off the basis of low-residual and it may surprise some people here to see a lot of things on safe-lists making it onto that info sheet - with good reason, low-residual foods dont stay long enough to be used as fuel by the nasty stuff in the gut and when you factor in that most people who have IBD have inflammation and narrowing of the gut area - it makes perfect sense that food that has to stay in the gut longer will amass larger and cause more discomfort and possibly pain where as the low-residual will pass quicker, not linger as long inside leading to less pain/issues.

I have considered a liquid diet but i would need to hear from more people on here who are on liquid diets to objectively work out if it is worth it or not.


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## Justanothercp (Oct 16, 2014)

Wellen,
I have had 1 resection, small bowel. And I take lots of Meds: Budesonide, Remicade, Lialda, Omeprazole, B12 injections, and an assortment of supplements. BUT, I have noticed a big change in my day to day gut pain and rumblings since starting the diet, enough so that I'm starting to try to taper to 6mg of Budesonide rather than 9. Very very very slowly.


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## wellen1981 (Oct 16, 2014)

Justanothercp said:


> Wellen,
> I have had 1 resection, small bowel. And I take lots of Meds: Budesonide, Remicade, Lialda, Omeprazole, B12 injections, and an assortment of supplements. BUT, I have noticed a big change in my day to day gut pain and rumblings since starting the diet, enough so that I'm starting to try to taper to 6mg of Budesonide rather than 9. Very very very slowly.


Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions, I am still trying to understand as much as i can about this condition but that is impossible to do when i only look at my circumstances - your answers just confuse me more but in the good, inquisitive way...

Makes me wonder
How long you have suffered with pain?
If there have ever been any changes to the pain pre-surgery?
If there have been any changes to the pain eg significant reduction in the pain pre-surgery, would you recall anything that changed to cause the reduction?

I also have trouble understanding where to factor in people that have crohns that have to have blood transfusions eg monthly and also am trying to understand how some people are suffering so badly that they are having 10 bad toilet trips a day due the condition... i dont dispute anything i read about each sufferer on this forum but i wish i had more of an understanding into why some suffer more than others and i strongly suspect it is because some people are eating more 'normally' than others, and in turn it is punishing their bodies more than others eg myself.

Other than my above further questions what is your attitude/perspective on the condition?


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## Justanothercp (Oct 16, 2014)

Wellen, 
I guess I shouldn't call it "pain" the day to day stuff has mostly been "discomfort": bloated, grumbling belly etc...  The pain is only when I have partial SBO which occurs about 4-5 times/years.  I am WAY better than pre-surgery, pre-surgery was just miserable every day.
My take on why everyone differs so much:  I think there are different causes of crohns, I think different locations make a difference, diet makes a difference and type of Crohns makes a difference.  For example, My Crohns is of the "fibrostenotic" variety.  A lot of other people have either: "inflammatory" or "fistulizing/perforating".
I always thought I just needed to focus on foods that broke down well enough to fit through the stricture, finally I realized the stricture was the symptom not the problem.  The problem was the inflammation/leaky gut garbage.  So, I started studying diets and that led my to Paleo/Low Fodmap, which really has been an unbelievable change for me.  I'm not militant about it, but pretty good.  Also, I am slowly trying to reintroduce foods to see how I tolerate: for example I added white rice- seem fine; tried cheese - sadly no way!


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## Houston832 (Oct 17, 2014)

Can any of you tell me how you went about either ruling out or verifying that certain foods were causing pain? I've been diagnosed with inflammatory Crohn's for about a year but I can't seem to figure out which foods are causing pain.


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## UnXmas (Oct 18, 2014)

Houston832 said:


> Can any of you tell me how you went about either ruling out or verifying that certain foods were causing pain? I've been diagnosed with inflammatory Crohn's for about a year but I can't seem to figure out which foods are causing pain.


It may be that no particular foods cause you pain. It can be very difficult to tell. You have to look for consistent reactions - i.e., if you feel ill after eating one particular food, it may just be coincidence, you have to try it a few times and see if it brings on the same symptoms repeatedly.

It's very complicated because reactions may well not be immediate - they may happen a day or two later. Also you may not react to a small amount of a food, but can't digest it well in large quantities, or you may not react to specific foods so much as your overall diet - you may feel worse on a high-fibre diet, or on a high-fat diet for example.

A good thing to do is start with the food types that are known to more often be problematic. For example, many people with digestive problems do better eating less fibre, and some people with Crohn's have problems with lactose and do better without dairy. So you could start on a low-fibre diet, or a lactose-free diet, and see if over a couple of weeks you begin to feel a bit better. If you change more than one thing at once, though, you won't know which change has brought improvements, should you get any. And remember that other factors may also result in changes in your symptoms, for example, changes in medication. 

So it can be very difficult, so don't go in for an overly restrictive diet or make major changes without good reason. It's important to keep your overall diet balanced. Rather than focusing on cutting things out, you could try to eat a diet consisting of the foods that are generally considered safest - white rice, bananas, carrots and other well cooked root vegetables, lean meat and fish, avocados, smooth peanut butter, plain white bread, crackers, etc. Then if your symptoms settle, try adding in a few foods and see if they provoke symptoms.


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## Justanothercp (Oct 18, 2014)

Houston832,
I know some people get very restrictive and scientific about the process, I did not.  I started by cutting out all dairy and wheat/grains -- which sounds horrifying, and is why I waited until I was desperate to do it--.   But the impact was immediate and significant.  I stuck with that for about 2 months and then started trying things.  Eggs were ok, cheese not, white rice ok, tortilla chips not.  I would try one thing about a week, I could tell withing 8 hours if the new food was ok.  In the end, I pretty much stay away from most dairy and wheat/grains (except for butter, eggs and white rice)


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## Stoner (Oct 21, 2014)

I've tried all the different resriction diets: SCD, Gluten Free, FODMAP. None of them have enlightened me. I've only found a few very obvious painful foods: Greens (Iceburg esp.), whole wheat, corn-on-the-cob (more than 1-2 times a week when in season), and for some ungodly reason, potato salad.
My daughter was diagnosed with IBS earlier this year and has found FODMAP diet very helpful and that she is lactose intolerant.
So there's both ends of the spectrum on resriction diets from me.


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## Susan2 (Oct 27, 2014)

Apple (peeled) seems to be well tolerated by a number of us (including myself) if either grated finely or stewed and blended (what the Americans call apple sauce). Good with oatmeal.

For really badly upset stomachs - for "normal" people as well as us IBDers - rice porridge (what the Chinese call "congee") is excellent. White rice - short grain is best but any will do - lots of water and cook until sticky/gluggy. You can add a little salt and something like chopped chicken or fish for savoury or apple (as above) or mashed banana for sweet.


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## Layla (Oct 27, 2014)

I did the FODMAP elimination diet which pretty much confirmed what I already knew but I found it helpful all the same. What also helped was that the dietician has Crohn's herself :thumleft:

I can't eat onions and anything high fibre like corn, nuts, green asparagus, peas, anything spicy, very fizzy drinks, very cold drinks etc.

I already knew I was lactose intolerant but it seems I'm also intolerant to either whey or casein or both. I can cope with a small amount of butter though and I love cheese so much that sometimes I eat it anyway and just pay the price.

I adore lettuce salads and although iceberg is bad and many of the cute curly ones are worse there are a few types with softer leaves/less fibrous I can just manage as long as I don't overdo it.

Most lean meats are easy to digest, including red meat, and most importantly to me is that I'm not gluten intolerant! I've had the biopsy done which came out fine and the elimination diet confirmed it. I make my own sourdough bread and I just love it. Lactose is easier to avoid than gluten.

When I'm flaring a peanut butter sandwich is better than immodium. When I had obstructions I didn't dare eat that at all and I only ate a sandwich with lots of water at the same time even though I had constant diarrhoea. I also didn't dare eat white rice as I was just too afraid of the grains getting stuck.

Now that the strictures have been removed I can eat sushi again, yumm! I only have the ones without the seaweed outer and with raw salmon, tuna and avocado, great lunch option, but you may have to try several different vendors as some of the vinegar they use for the rice can create issues!

Lucky for me alcohol doesn't give me problems either :beerchug: wine is fine and even beer as long as I drink it slowly!

If you can find a good dietician, I'd say use them, but in my experience many of them don't know enough about Crohn's to be of much help. Most of them want to try a fibre rich diet, aargh!oo:

Otherwise go it alone and do it like some other posters have already suggested, eat only thing you know you can tolerate like your baked potatoes, white rice, chicken and homemade broths (to be sure they don't contain onion, gluten or other suspects) for a week or so and once everything is somewhat settled introduce one new food a week and see how it goes. If you tolerate add it to your arsenal and add the next food. 
If you don't cut it out and try something else.

Good luck!


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## UnXmas (Oct 27, 2014)

> When I'm flaring a peanut butter sandwich is better than immodium. When I had obstructions I didn't dare eat that at all and I only ate a sandwich with lots of water at the same time even though I had constant diarrhoea. I also didn't dare eat white rice as I was just too afraid of the grains getting stuck.


I thought white rice was one of the easiest to digest foods. It doesn't get stuck because it breaks down in the digestive system, unlike foods high in fibre, which don't break down and so can get stuck.


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## Layla (Oct 27, 2014)

When I'm flaring badly, nothing is digested as it sometimes takes less than 20 minutes to come out the other side..... Rice may be fine but I just wasn't prepared to risk it!


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## wellen1981 (Dec 21, 2014)

Haven't been on for a while (sorry)...

To answer someones question further up about how to know what to eat you just literally have to go to extremes initially - eg my tactic was to read on here all the posts about what each person classed as 'their safe food' and then from all posters find the most mentioned one food - which was white rice.

I had pain for 2 years and going on just white rice 2 meals (sometimes managing to have 3 meals a day) I managed to get rid of the severe constant pain in my left side within a week (was actually by the 5th if I am honest).

So then, I had got rid of the terrible constant pain and had a clean slate/blank canvas so-to-speak to work from.

So I went back to peoples safe food lists on here (well actually i made a notepad file and for everytime someone mentioned a safe food i noted it down and built up a number count for how often each mentioned food type came up in posts) and this is where it started to get cloudy...

At this point it started to show that some lucky people were ok with salads, others were saying cheese is fine for them, others were saying anything they eat was making them bad.

You have to factor in that some people are not as strong-willed as others when it comes to this extreme 'diet of exclusion' method. This means they are possibly giving in at a point in a day and having something naughty or unknown if safe or not just to satisfy the cravings.

I have no self control whatsoever when it comes to nice food types but I was lucky in a way as I lost my appetite approx 10-12yrs ago due to a bad case of food poisoning and gastro-enteritus.

Getting hungry and getting hunger pangs is probably what causes most people to falter regarding having that little treat which is a bad idea as a crohns sufferer.

When I say i just ate white rice i really, honestly mean that - eg for the first 2 days i only ate a bowl of white rice when i woke up, then in the afternoon (as i dont get hungry often i forget to eat at the appropriate times so i remember sometimes 2 hrs late eg 2-4pm on the first 2 days. Then day 3 white rice when i woke, lunch bowl of white rice again then managed to squeeze in a 3rd meal of bowl of white rice. Days 4 and 5 were likely 2 meals of a bowl of white rice as honestly it is very rare that i manage to squeeze 3 meals in each day.

I never snack! I mean honestly strictly never snack!
After 2 years of constant every day, every minute severe pain - that feeling was enough to put me off faltering on self control as I really didnt want to undermine my test of exclusion and all it would have done is set the whole process back if a) the pain never subsided and b) if the pain went and then returned after only a day or 2 while I was eating the white rice only (you gotta understand that just eating the white rice is pretty dull and boring so the last thing you want to do is invalidate a test where you are already sacrificing other foods for meals for the sake of trying to gain an insight or understand of what your body can and can not tolerate).

I will never proclaim to be an expert on this and there are many people in this forum who have been on here way long than me who really know their stuff and can converse with you about meds and medical conditions that would shame many a GI and MOST GPs.

But 1 thing I am doing okay at is working out how to approach things from a rational logical angle so that I can try to get a handle on this ruthless infectious disease as much as possible.

I'm still here today, still alive (just about!), I haven't had to be hospitalized for obstructions (yet!) and I haven't had to have any surgery yet and i am not on any medication of any kind.

I still have bad days at times but never the severe pain that ruined my life over 2 slow years. My take on this is I am lucky but must be doing something 'slightly' right.

I used to chef a city centre pub on my own and part of UK Food Standards Agency for working in environments with food is knowing about food hygiene of course!

I like learning things and I like random facts about stuff and it really amazed me to learn what I did on that food course about rice...

Bacteria on rice behaves in a very clever way - on rice it creates a spore (think of it like a bubble shield) totally surrounding the bacteria on the rice that means if you cook rice and then reheat rice to eat later (which is something that is advised against!) the spore protects the bacteria and the bacteria survives even the cooking at so called safe cooking temps eg 65c (if memory serves me correct, been a while since i cheffed now).

If we accept scientific consensus in Western medicine, (that Crohns is bacteria imbalance in the gut) then the reason white rice is on most peoples safe lists is likely due to the way bacteria interacts with rice (eg clinging to the rice) which then passes through us and as harmful bacteria clings to rice it is not too far fetched to believe that some of the bad bacteria in us is removed on consumed rice thus reducing the levels of bad bacteria in us.

I don't like to wear tin-foils hats in life so I only base the above revelation on the fact that white rice is on peoples safe lists the most and more importantly I base this on the fact that in MY OWN PERSONAL testing experience I got rid of sever pain that had been with me everyday for 2 years. Remember this pain went just 5-7 days into eating just white rice.

I hope my wall of brain fog text has been worth reading. 

Also, Layla how lucky were you to get a dietician with Crohns! Well found.


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## UnXmas (Dec 21, 2014)

You sound very dedicated wellen.  Another thing you'd have to factor in when seeing which foods people post on this forum as their safe or trigger foods is that people may not be identifying these foods correctly: they may believe a particular food causes them symptoms when it doesn't, or not realise that a food is making their symptoms worse. Both these, especially the former, would be easy to do, as there are so many other factors besides foods that can affect symptoms, including very significant things going on unbeknownst to us inside our bodies. Plus the amount of a food eaten or the overall content of things such as fibre in the diet over a longer period could affect symptoms more than the consumption of a particular food on its own.

It's so confusing! There are some things that pop up over and over again as safe foods or trigger foods, and ones that have scientific backing as being generally good or bad to eat in the context of particular medical conditions, and these are good starting points. But sometimes just relaxing about what you eat, having what seems sensible and what you feel like, and accepting that you may make a mistake and make things worse and that the amount of control you can have over this disease and the affects of food are limited anyway, can be healthier than trying to eat a perfect diet.


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## wellen1981 (Dec 23, 2014)

UnXmas said:


> You sound very dedicated wellen.  Another thing you'd have to factor in when seeing which foods people post on this forum as their safe or trigger foods is that people may not be identifying these foods correctly: they may believe a particular food causes them symptoms when it doesn't, or not realise that a food is making their symptoms worse. Both these, especially the former, would be easy to do, as their are so many other factors besides foods that can affect symptoms, including very significant things going on unbeknownst to us inside our bodies. Plus the amount of a food eaten or the overall content of things such as fibre in the diet over a longer period could affect symptoms more than the consumption of a particular food on its own.
> 
> It's so confusing! There are some things that pop up over and over again as safe foods or trigger foods, and ones that have scientific backing as being generally good or bad to eat in the context of particular medical conditions, and these are good starting points. But sometimes just relaxing about what you eat, having what seems sensible and what you feel like, and accepting that you may make a mistake and make things worse and that the amount of control you can have over this disease and the affects of food are limited anyway, can be healthier than trying to eat a perfect diet.


Yeah, some might be misidentifying which food made them unwell but that is the beauty of the diet of exclusion - as long as you do it properly and make your method as simple as possible (by that i mean sticking to just one food eg white until you level out pain-wise) then once you do introduce the 2nd type again, it is easy to see changes if any and you know the only thing that could have caused a change is the 2nd food.

A good example for me was after those 1st 5 days of just eating white rice i then started to commit to having rice crispies with lacto free milk for about another week - then i started to just put a bit of chicken meat in the bowl of white rice, then after that went ok i tried some beef.

Through this very slow and strict method of testing i was able to see improvement from just white rice, then see maintained positive results when i introduced rice crispies in lactofree milk every morning, then some chicken in the white rice was still ok and then finally some beef in the white rice was still ok.

Its all about getting to the point of zero pain first then literally just introduce one more food at a time until you either get pain, or after 2-3 days you feel ok still.

That's how I approached it anyway - oh and I tried to eat just 1 rasher of bacon after this and got issues within 24hrs after eating it - so I marked that down as on the 'bad idea' list.
I then went back to just my so-far 'good idea' list and then once i was ok again I tried to eat a sausage sandwich which was a bad idea! I should also say that before sausage i had tried white bread toasted with some lacto free butter on and was ok so that is why I tried a sausage sandwich - this showed that the bread was ok and it was the sausage that caused me trouble. You could argue that how do i know the bread was safe but I had tried just white bread with lacto free butter on also and that was ok, so it had to be the sausage causing grief.

Also, the worst thing you can do is use pre-prepped sauces etc eg stuff manufactured with many ingredients in. 
This is because if you start feeling worse again you will have no idea which specific ingredient it was in the pre-prepped product that made you bad. 
You really do have to keep it simple and basic if you are to understand the results and build up a list of safe-unsafe that is credible and accurate!

I still like food, it just doesn't always like me!

:cookie: (Probably best not to eat this unless you know its on your safe list!)


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## Daisy62 (Dec 23, 2014)

Hi to all of you,
have been reading Wellen1981's posts, my daughter when diagnosed at 20 yrs pancolitis, a biologist/dietician gave her a diet, she could also eat the read whole grain rice BUT only after cooking it with one cup to 10 cups of water ( also preassure cooking) and ONLY AFTER passing in a hand smasher ( in italian it is called Passa verdura, you can see the image googling the word), NOT MASHED WITH AN ELECTRIC FOOD MIXER AS THE FIBER BREAKS IN. only the red cream which comes out should be eaten, a teaspoon of olive oil can be added. a lot of vit B in it.  during the first year se had only one flare up for 10 days . she was supposed to eat cooked apple or pear. no other fruit. 

yet the flareup she got in december is terrible, only rice white or red . no bread at all. even during remission bread has to be gluten free and toasted.
lots of potatoes. zucchini, carrots all cooked.

no fruit juices other than pomme grandes home made mashed on the passa verdura. 

NO COFFEE OR TEA , only herbal drinks like infutions of camomile, malva, melissa.

BUT what happens is as a students pizzas and a once in a while beer surely did not do well.
she can have, chicken and turkey breat or boiled soft parts. boneless fish baked or boiled.

i noticed this year things have got different , so it is a keep on trying with small portions , one at a time to notice what is good and what is bad for her. 

when she was on remission, i made pancakes with rice floor, fresh coconut milk, and egg, to eat with coocked apples. she was fine. but i saw up here in a post to avoid apples..., so guess it is always a try to see what agrees with each individual.

wish you all the very best. happy holidays. hope my daughter can be back home for christmas from the hospital.


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## Susan2 (Dec 23, 2014)

I wouldn't agree with the idea of avoiding apples. I find that either raw grated apple (peeled, of course) or stewed and pureed apple is very easy to digest.


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## Daisy62 (Dec 23, 2014)

Layla said:


> When I'm flaring badly, nothing is digested as it sometimes takes less than 20 minutes to come out the other side..... Rice may be fine but I just wasn't prepared to risk it!


Infact, when  my daughter started flaring badly, even the rise water , nor cream of rice even one spoon cannot be kept in even for ten miniutes, all comes out. now she is on a continuous drip for the last two days, while the corteson is on she is ok, the moment it finishes here we go again 

I would like to know, if you dont mind,  for how long do you have the flareup with bleeding?


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## Daisy62 (Dec 23, 2014)

Ciao Everybody,
could anyone please tell me , what is the difference between Crohns and  ulcerative pan colitis , which my daughter is diagnosed with ???

I was told by  the docs that there is a difference ( where it is situated) i would like to know if anyone started with Uc and went to Crohns, after how long??


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## ncman (Dec 23, 2014)

wellen1981, I think its great that you're in a place to try this diet with little to no meds. Did they not work for you?

I'd suggest you look at the LOFFLEX diet, it's what I'm following now. It's basically a similar approach to what you're trying, a new food added once every 4 days, twice a day. This sort of exclusion diet helps you to iron out any intolerances you may have. 



wellen1981 said:


> If we accept scientific consensus in Western medicine, (that Crohns is bacteria imbalance in the gut) then the reason white rice is on most peoples safe lists is likely due to the way bacteria interacts with rice (eg clinging to the rice) which then passes through us and as harmful bacteria clings to rice it is not too far fetched to believe that some of the bad bacteria in us is removed on consumed rice thus reducing the levels of bad bacteria in us.


I think the idea is more that the bad bacteria feed on the way food is broken down, and as white rice is easily digested with little residue, it generally shouldn't worsen CD.


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## UnXmas (Dec 23, 2014)

wellen1981 said:


> Yeah, some might be misidentifying which food made them unwell but that is the beauty of the diet of exclusion - as long as you do it properly and make your method as simple as possible (by that i mean sticking to just one food eg white until you level out pain-wise) then once you do introduce the 2nd type again, it is easy to see changes if any and you know the only thing that could have caused a change is the 2nd food.
> 
> A good example for me was after those 1st 5 days of just eating white rice i then started to commit to having rice crispies with lacto free milk for about another week - then i started to just put a bit of chicken meat in the bowl of white rice, then after that went ok i tried some beef.
> 
> ...


I didn't find it that easy doing exclusion diets, because of what I mentioned about internal factors affecting symptoms. Even if I kept my diet very strict (and I did, when I did exclusion/elimination diets, I never "cheated"), my symptoms vary considerably from day to day and month to month, and I'm sure that's true for many others. I'm never symptom free, no matter what I do or don't eat, so the "zero" state you mention doesn't exist for everyone.


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## RNGirl (Dec 24, 2014)

Happy Holidays everyone!

I am newly diagnosed and greatful to be doing well.  I Initially stopped consuming gluten then eliminated lactose.  I was eating rice bread, boiled rice, rice milk, all things gluten free etc. etc.  I really didn't rally and feel better until I started the auto immune version of the Paleo diet.  I have been very strict with this diet for 4 months now.  No grains, lactose, eggs, night shade vegetables, refined sugars, chemicals etc.  also check every lable for "carrageenan".  Carrageenan will chew your gut up.  Google it---bad stuff.  My GI doc was adamant about cutting it out completely.  Really feel better than I have in a long time.  Realize after eliminating foods and adding back, that beef, corn and soy are triggers also.  My symptoms tend to be more systemic with joint pain, sinus pressure, ear pressure and dizzyness and nausea.  Eat a food that doesn't agree with me and have symptoms for most of a week.  I was able to stop my budesonide and pentasa too.  For now this is working and I expect drugs will be in my future, but currently managing with a pure clean diet.


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## wellen1981 (Jan 25, 2015)

Just thought I would post again to advise where I'm at...

I have stuck to white rice and have been able to keep the pain down to tolerable levels however less than a dozen times I have specifically tried to have what I can only call 'normal days' whereby I eat normally again.

The results...

Not only do I find myself in quite a bit of pain within 24-48hrs but I also find that trips to the bathroom are worse.

This was done (the 'normal eating days') as an experiment every time as I needed to know if the white rice consumption was making a difference not only to the amount of pain suffered, but I also wanted to see if it was possibly reducing the level of infection in me - and sadly being bad and in pain having eaten normally just showed me that it hadn't managed to reverse the condition to the point of significance.

As I have previously stated I am currently on no meds.


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## Daisy62 (Jan 26, 2015)

Hi everybody,  ( THINKING OF AYUWEDIC THERAPY, HELP FOR INFO!!!)
Hope some of you were  lucky enough to pass the holidays without pain, my daughter suffered a lot.

upto now she is on cortisteroids + asacol 4g + mesalazena 1200mgx3+ eutirox

her diet is mostly filtered chicken broth,   toasted dry bread . detained tea and herbal drinks. alternative days potatoe, a little chicken breast.

she is being proposed to start immunosupressives !!! said her case is serious, and if not taken this she will have a colectomy in the near future.

WE ARE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING AYWEDIC THERAPY IN SRI LANKA, IF ANYONE HAS ANY EXPERIENCE EVEN THROUGH FRIENDS, POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE PLEASE DO FORWARD. WE ARE COLLECTING ALL INFORMATION.


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## Layla (Feb 4, 2015)

Ciao Daisy62,

I'm sorry to say I've never heard a positive report of Ayurvedic therapy for IBD. I kind of think that if there were good results with this therapy we'd all be doing it....

Immunosuppressants are not great but really not that scary either, if I were you I'd do a lot more research on these before considering going to Sri Lanka.

As to your other question about having Ulcerative Colitis and then having Crohn's, I was diagnosed with Pan Colitis (Pan means that the whole colon is affected) about 20 years ago and now have Crohn's. They are 2 different diseases, Crohn's can affect any part of the digestive system from your mouth to your anus and UC is only found in the colon. 
There is no rule to say that is you start with UC at some point it will change into Crohn's! Most people with UC will continue having that unless they were misdiagnosed in the first place.

In hindsight I probably had Crohn's al along and never had UC which fits with some of the other things I was experiencing at the time.

Medication is very similar for both diseases and I was treated with Prednisone and Azathioprine (an immunosuppressant) which gave me around 10 reasonably good years without any medication.

Good luck with your daughter and keep us informed!


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## Marlena (Feb 7, 2015)

wellen1981 said:


> Just thought I would post again to advise where I'm at...
> 
> I have stuck to white rice and have been able to keep the pain down to tolerable levels however less than a dozen times I have specifically tried to have what I can only call 'normal days' whereby I eat normally again.
> 
> ...


Just a thought, but both my doctor and the nutritionist said to just ad one thing at a time.  Excruciatingly slow, I know, but it may help you.  Start with really easy stuff like pasta, white bread, applesauce, bananas.  Hope this helps.


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## Suave (Feb 10, 2015)

My son is allergic to apples. He knew this even before testing for it. He is allergic to bananas too.  So, yes, each individual needs to find out what affects them.  Since he loves rice, we use only Parboiled  rice. It is suppopsed to be better than white rice and brown rice.
 However, rice is constipating and he can't eat it often but it doesn't irritate his system. If you have not tried it, give parboiled rice a try.  Another food that is constipating is Platano (boil with salt), not the small ones (green bananas) and yuca is good too. These  are similar to rice in that usually no one is allergic to them. it is important if possible to only eat home made foods because even the things you can eat, can be a problem eaten outside because they add other ingredients that we are not aware of like artificial ingredeints.


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## Marlena (Feb 10, 2015)

I am glad you are finding substitutes.  I really like plantains, so I will look into trying them.


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