# Book with info about TNF inhibiting herbs



## tzvia

I am interested in ordering this e-book about how to put Crohn's into remission naturally:

http://crohnsbreakthrough.com/

Here's another article by the same person so you can see where they are coming from from a medical perspective.  http://crohnsbreakthrough.com/blog/what-causes-the-inflammation-in-crohns-disease-shocking/

What I am most interested in finding out in this book are those herbs/supplement that suppress TNF.  I'm very interested in this protcol which has supposedly helped high percentages of folks go into remission.  The thing is that it costs $49...so I was wondering...if there are a few interested folks that want this info described in the first link...perhaps we could split the cost and share the e-book?  If we get 4 people, it would be $12.50 each...or 10 folks would be $5/each.

Anyone interested?


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## Mark in Seattle

I wouldn't give that guy a penny.  It's my bias; I tend to think these e-bookers are just scammers.  50 bucks for an ebook, from some guy with no credentials, probably with 1,000 other ebook websites, probably sitting in Nigeria collecting his paypal receipts; I'll pass.

I would say this though.  I am currently reading a book entitled:

Healing Spices: How to Use 50 Everyday and Exotic Spices to Boost Health and Beat Disease 

The main author is: Bharat B. Aggarwal, PhD is a professor in the department of experimental therapeutics in the division of cancer medicine at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas.

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Spice...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357708194&sr=1-1

I got onto this book because I read some articles in pubmed published by Bharat B. Aggarwal, which somewhat intrigued me.  It's a highly ranked book on Amazon, the hardcover is only 14 bucks, and so far I think it's a pretty high quality book, as far as spices and herbs for medicinal use are concerned, although this is my first foray into learning about this type of treatment.  I feel like I've learned some things to try out and I'm considering spending the 14 bucks to have a reference copy on hand for trying things over the coming years.

I will say that I've purchased some Cardamom Pu'erh Tea by Numi 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MJGX4O/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I'd swear that whenever I drink this tea my gut feels better.  Cardamom is good for the gut according to this book.  Could be placebo effect though, who knows.  You can always check this book out at a local library, which is what I'm currently doing.


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## wildbill_52280

thank you for posting this it is very interesting.

for the most part it seems that what this guy is saying, specifically the proposition that tnf-alpha in crohns disease is a crucial part of its pathogenesis and treatment, is very true. but from reading some of what he is saying, i have some initial doubt that he has a full understanding of the biological processes in crohns due to his statement on his site:

 "How do the bacteria damage the gut lining? They ferment carbohydrates and produce acid as a by-product. This acid burns the gut lining leading to inflammation and ulcers. Yes, the inflammation/ulcers in Crohn’s sufferers are caused by bacteria producing acid."

this is not an accurate depiction of what is going on down there. pathogenic bacteria produce toxins/endotoxins and i think they are lipopolysaccharides and not acids. and the acids that good bacteria produce are actually anti-inflammatory, like lactic acid or butyric acid and they have been shown in studies to heal the intestinal lining. So you see, there may be some good stuff in that book that helps some people, but i have some initial doubts that it is something you couldnt easily find out about yourself. Personally i am curious as to what is in that book, but i would so hate to be duped, and will he really return your money ?? how would you take him to court over that one? kinda tuff. its just some guy on the internet. the book should cost no more then ten bucks for such a big gamble especially coming from not much of a credible author.

just spend a couple weeks browsing pub med for natural tnf-a inhibitors. I have found quite a few papers on that very subject myself and tried some as well and they didnt work in an in vivo model. some of these investigations and their methodologies have no transferability into the actual disease state. its scientific induction, merely suggestive evidence. im not saying its useless, but, its going to take some trial and error to find which ones work. maybe this guy did do just that, and he has something to say, that possibility is absolutly there. but he could also just be taking advantage of people, thats also a possibility. at the price he is charging, and from the things ive read, chances are good, he might have a nice swindle here.

EDIT- sorry didnt read your entire post, that's a great idea, i would do it but im pretty low on cash at the moment.


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## wildbill_52280

here is one study done by the doctor he mentions dr slonim

J Am Coll Nutr. 2009 Jun;28(3):277-85.
Effect of exclusion diet with nutraceutical therapy in juvenile Crohn's disease.
Slonim AE, Grovit M, Bulone L.
Source
Division of Clinical Genetics, Department of Pediatrics, Columbia University College of Physicians & Surgeons, New York, New York 10032, USA. as2718@columbia.edu

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Most moderate-severe juvenile Crohn's disease (CD) patients are in a constant catabolic state resulting in poor weight gain and growth failure. Anti-inflammatory, immunomodulatory, and monoclonal antibody drugs, as well as growth hormone (GH), frequently fail to achieve sustained remission or reverse growth failure.

OBJECTIVE:
To test whether an exclusion diet with nutraceutical therapy (DNT) could induce sustained clinical remission and weight gain, and if so does this enhance the ability for GH to reverse growth failure.

METHODS:
An uncontrolled prospective case study was undertaken in six moderate- severe CD patients, two of whom had completed growth. All were treated with DNT. Adequate caloric and protein ( >or= 3g/kg/d) intake for catch up weight was prescribed. Dairy products, certain grains and carrageenan containing foods were eliminated. *Nutraceuticals, consisting of fish peptides, bovine colostrum, boswellia serrata, curcumin* and a multivitamin were administered daily. Lactobacillus GG, a probiotic, was administered twice weekly. Recombinant human GH (rhGH) was administered daily.

RESULTS:
Within 2 months of starting DNT all six patients went into remission, with discontinuation of all pharmacological drugs. Three patients have remained in sustained remission for 4 to 8 years. One patient with very severe CD had recurrence of CD symptoms after being in complete remission for 18 months, one patient was in remission for 3 years but symptoms recurred when she became less compliant to DNT and one recently treated patient remains in remission after 6 months. With the addition of rhGH, the 4 growing patients had good-excellent growth response

CONCLUSION:
DNT engendered prolonged remission and restoration of normal weight in moderate-severe juvenile CD patients, providing conditions that enabled rhGH to stimulate growth. These findings justify larger controlled trials to evaluate the long-term benefit of compliance to DNT in both juvenile and adult CD patients.


from my research i found out that growth hormone is expensive and hard to get. but it has been shown to helps crohn's patients pretty well, i dont think its been well studied though.


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## Mark in Seattle

full text link to the Slonim article:

http://www.jacn.org/content/28/3/277.long

Some key specifics:

Foods excluded from the diet were all dairy products, all corn and whole grain products, and any food product containing carrageenan. Specific nutrients and bioactive natural compounds were introduced to correct deficiencies, modulate the inflammatory response and provide growth factors to restore and maintain gastrointestinal integrity, as well as a probiotic to compete with the indigenous bacterial flora. 

The bioactive natural compounds administered daily were:

•a) Intestive (Proper Nutrition, Reading, PA), a synergistic nutraceutical, containing small-chain fish peptides and amino acids in a ratio of 60:40, dairy free colostrum and boswellia serrata, taken 30 minutes before meals. 

•b) a standardized preparation of curcumin (Nature Herbs, American Fork, UT) taken with each meal, 

•c) one Vita-Lea tablet, a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Shaklee, Pleasanton, CA) taken with breakfast and dinner, 

•d) Culturelle, a probiotic preparation containing 10 billion cells of Lactobacillus GG (Amerifit, Cromwell, CT) administered twice weekly. 

A liberal intake of antioxidants from food substrate and a plant-derived source of amylase, protease and lipase were later incorporated into each meal to support digestion and facilitate absorption. 

Daily rhGH was administered to 4 patients (#1–4) in an initial dose of 0.18–0.20 mg/kg/week, being within the recommended dose for GH deficient adolescents.


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## Dave Watson

Hi guys/gals. I'm the author that ebook. Absolutely everything I say is backed up by SCIENCE and 10 years of personal research. Overall, I've cited 400+ studies on my blog/ebook to support everything I say. Widlbill says what I state is happening in the guts of Crohn's sufferers is not accurate. I'm certain it is. Am I ok to explain it?


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## tzvia

I'm interested in your e-book, Dave, but the price is a little high for me.  I'm used to paying about $15 for an actual printed book.


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## Dave Watson

That's fine send me an email to dave@crohnsbreakthrough.com and I'll get you sorted.

Let me explain why I charge so much. At the back of ebook is my personal email address where I personally respond to all questions, and it can be time-consuming sometimes. My goal is to get all my customers into remission as quickly as possible.

Also, I'm funding several studies this year that will prove that Crohn's is not an autoimmune disease. These studies cost money. For example, intestinal sections from numerous Crohn's sufferers will be examined by one of the foremost experts on lactic-acid burning, he will prove that normal gut bacteria are fermenting carbs and burning the gut to cause the inflammation and ulcers (holes).



tzvia said:


> I'm interested in your e-book, Dave, but the price is a little high for me.  I'm used to paying about $15 for an actual printed book.


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## tzvia

Thank you, Dave.  I sent you a msg.:heart:


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## wildbill_52280

dave00 said:


> Hi guys/gals. I'm the author that ebook. Absolutely everything I say is backed up by SCIENCE and 10 years of personal research. Overall, I've cited 400+ studies on my blog/ebook to support everything I say. Widlbill says what I state is happening in the guts of Crohn's sufferers is not accurate. I'm certain it is. Am I ok to explain it?


that would be wonderful Dave.


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## tzvia

Well, I don't know what to make of this guy, Dave.  I sent him an email days ago, at his request and I have gotten no response at all.
Zoe


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## Dave Watson

I just checked... you're in the spam folder 

Will reply in the next 20 mins.. mentioned some interesting things here: crohnsforum dot com /showthread.php?t=45756



tzvia said:


> Well, I don't know what to make of this guy, Dave.  I sent him an email days ago, at his request and I have gotten no response at all.
> Zoe


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## tzvia

Thanks!


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## wildbill_52280

dave00 said:


> That's fine send me an email to dave@crohnsbreakthrough.com and I'll get you sorted.
> 
> Let me explain why I charge so much. At the back of ebook is my personal email address where I personally respond to all questions, and it can be time-consuming sometimes. My goal is to get all my customers into remission as quickly as possible.
> 
> Also, I'm funding several studies this year that will prove that Crohn's is not an autoimmune disease. These studies cost money. For example, intestinal sections from numerous Crohn's sufferers will be examined by one of the foremost experts on lactic-acid burning, he will prove that normal gut bacteria are fermenting carbs and burning the gut to cause the inflammation and ulcers (holes).


its great to see you came back to discuss some of the details in your book dave, you say you are funding studies and that is why you are charging so much for the book, that sounds great!! but i would like to hear a bit more about your theory about how crohns disease works, its just a little unclear to me still.

Thanks!


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## Dave Watson

I posted some stuff in a different thread. Copied and pasted here.



> Couple of further points to add to kiny's excellent responses.
> 
> This study found 92% of CD sufferers infected with MAP (link).
> 
> This study demonstrated that MAP-infected macrophages produce excess amounts of of TNF (link).
> 
> Another bug linked to CD is AIEC. Again, AIEC-infected macrophages also produce excess TNF (link).
> 
> We have two bugs linked to CD and both invade immune cells and the invaded immune-cells produce excess amounts of TNF. Could this excess TNF cause the inflammation and ulcers in CD?
> 
> In one way or another, CD drugs reduce/inhibit TNF in the gut.
> 
> Corticosteroids can improve Crohn’s and corticosteroids inhibit TNF (link).
> Naltrexone can improve Crohn’s and Naltrexone inhibits TNF (link).
> Mesalamine can improve Crohn’s and Mesalamine inhibits TNF (link).
> Enbrel, Remicade and Humira can all improve Crohn’s and all are anti-TNF drugs.
> Ect.
> 
> So, how would the excess TNF cause the inflammation/ulcers in CD - what's the elusive disease-causing mechanism ?
> 
> This article (link) discusses the miss-labelling of Crohn's as an autoimmune disease, when really it's a chronic inflammatory disorder of unknown cause; in others words, drop the autoimmune-disease label because it's not so! Even Wiki (lol) is saying CD is not an autoimmune disease: "Crohn's disease has wrongly been described as an autoimmune disease in the past; recent investigators have described it as an immune deficiency state"
> 
> Again, could the excess TNF from infected immune cells cause CD?
> 
> Excess TNF affects the functioning of immune cells (link)... and immune cells protect the gut-lining from damage by normal gut bacteria.
> 
> Additionally, there's an aspect of Crohn's missed by everyone... why doesn't the damn inflammation/ulcers/fistulas heal? (Keep in mind that CD is NOT an autoimmune disease)
> 
> Excess TNF is linked to non-healing wounds (and obviously non-healing inflammation). Excess TNF up-regulates MMIF (Macrophage migration inhibitory factor). MMIF plays a central role in wound healing. EMPHASIS: MMIF plays a central role in wound healing!
> 
> So, could the excess TNF play a dual role in CD?
> 
> 1. Indirectly cause the gut damage by preventing immune cells from clearing bacteria from the gut-lining.
> 
> 2. Prevent/delay the gut damage (inflammation/ulcers) from healing.
> 
> Food for thought...
> 
> (Can't include links 'cause I've got less than 10 posts).





wildbill_52280 said:


> its great to see you came back to discuss some of the details in your book dave, you say you are funding studies and that is why you are charging so much for the book, that sounds great!! but i would like to hear a bit more about your theory about how crohns disease works, its just a little unclear to me still.
> 
> Thanks!


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## Dave Watson

Here's more food for thought...

Excess TNF prevents/delays macrophages from removing normal gut bacteria from the gut lining (delayed clearance of bacteria is confirmed in multiple studies). 

Some reading here:



> “In Crohn’s disease, a constitutionally weak immune response predisposes to accumulation of intestinal contents that breach the mucosal barrier of the bowel wall.” Read more: thelancet dot com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(06)68265-2/abstract





> “The cause of Crohn’s disease (CD) remains poorly understood. Counterintuitively, these patients possess an impaired acute inflammatory response, which could result in delayed clearance of bacteria penetrating the lining.” Read more: ncbi.nlm.nih dot gov/pmc/articles/PMC2737162/


But, are the bacteria that have invaded the gut lining causing the inflammation/ulcers?

Now it's time to completely think outside the box! 

It's ASSUMED the inflammation in CD is caused by the immune response... but a number studies have identified CD patients with an "impaired acute inflammatory response" - a weak immune response, so what if the immune system is NOT responsible the for the gut damage... what if, normal gut bacteria cause the gut damage?

In the most recent Crohn's low-carb study, 100% of patients improved and virtually all were off TNF-blockers, and the lead researcher, Dr. Olendzki, concluded: "These carbohydrates are thought to provide a substrate for pro-inflammatory bacteria“. What does this mean? It means a completely new way to look at the cause of the inflammation/ulcers in Crohn's.


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## ctrl z

How many grams of carbs per day is considered low-carb according to the study?


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## Dave Watson

Doesn't say but it's based on SCD: works.bepress dot com/barbara_olendzki/46/



ctrl z said:


> How many grams of carbs per day is considered low-carb according to the study?


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## Mark in Seattle

I think I found someone who has bought Dave's book....not sure if Dave mentioned MAP though..

http://ehealthforum.com/health/the-...autoimmune-disease-t328495.html#axzz2IDwRCPHc

 jcox123 February 9th, 2012Any credible Crohnâs theory must take into account and logically explain all major aspects of the disease. The Crohnâs autoimmunity theory tries to explain the inflammation and not much else. The theory that Crohnâs is an autoimmune disease is a complete and utter MYTH with no credible evidence! 

There are 3 factors to Crohnâs disease: 

1. Weak immune response; 
2. MAP infection; 
3. Significant carbohydrate consumption. 

Crohnâs sufferersâ weak immune response allows MAP (which is acidogenic) to easily replicate and cause significant inflammation (including ulcers, strictures, etc) via acid production from fermented carbohydrates. Using my hypothesis, I can explain every major aspect of Crohnâs disease including the well researched immune and inflammatory response. It will be shocking to many Crohnâs sufferers when they realize they are BURNING their guts by consuming carbohydrates! 

Did you find this post helpful?  
You marked this post as helpful! I changed my mind  0 0 0Google +0Share
Tell a Friend | Report 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Bree122511
replied June 1st, 2012So it's not as serious as my doctors are putting it ?  
Tell a Friend | Report Did you find this post helpful?  
You marked this post as helpful! I changed my mind 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 knittingnana
replied September 7th, 2012More like complete and utter rubbish!! Its a life long illness which has NO CURE! 
Have you got the cure for cancer aswell? 

Read more: Crohn Disease Forum - The Big Myth: Crohn’s is an Autoimmune Disease http://ehealthforum.com/health/the-...autoimmune-disease-t328495.html#ixzz2IDx23Rox 
Follow us: @ehealthforums on Twitter


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## rollinstone

I agree that 45$ seems too much, and I think you would sell a lot more if you charged less, I'd be happy to Pay $15 if you could hook that up for me, I'd be really interested in reading your research.


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## Dave Watson

Thanks for the link – lol!

Here’s a quick summary of what I’m certain is going on in the guts of Crohn’s sufferers.

Crohn’s sufferers have a weak immune response (genetic) that affects macrophages – confirmed in multiples studies.

MAP/AIEC gets into the guts of CD sufferers and invade macophages. 

The invaded macrophages produce excess amounts of TNF.

The excess TNF causes two issues that lead to Crohn’s disease.

Issue 1. Excess TNF affects local immune cells so they don’t clear normal gut bacteria from the gut lining. Some of the bacteria along the gut lining ferment carbs and produce acid as a by-product. The acid damages the gut lining. That’s how the inflammation/ulcers are formed.

Issue 2. Excess TNF is linked to NON-HEALING WOUNDS. Excess TNF also up-regulates MMIF. MMIF is CRUCIAL in wound healing. In other words, excess TNF prevents the inflammation/ulcers from healing.​




To simplify: normal gut bacteria cause the inflammation and excess TNF prevents it from healing.

Why do TNF-blocking drugs work? They reduce TNF. Less TNF allows immune cells to remove the bacteria from the gut lining, and less TNF allows the normal healing process to occur.

*Crohn’s is all about excess TNF!*


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## wildbill_52280

dave00 said:


> That's fine send me an email to dave@crohnsbreakthrough.com and I'll get you sorted.
> 
> Let me explain why I charge so much. At the back of ebook is my personal email address where I personally respond to all questions, and it can be time-consuming sometimes. My goal is to get all my customers into remission as quickly as possible.
> 
> Also, I'm funding several studies this year that will prove that Crohn's is not an autoimmune disease. These studies cost money. For example, intestinal sections from numerous Crohn's sufferers will be examined by one of the foremost experts on lactic-acid burning, he will prove that normal gut bacteria are fermenting carbs and burning the gut to cause the inflammation and ulcers (holes).


hello dave, i was wondering where these studies you are funding with the proceeds from the book were taking place exactly?


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## Dave Watson

They should be taking place in the UK Wildbill.

More food for thought: *why does the bowel wall thicken in CD?*

This study discusses bowel-wall thickening in CD.
In patients with Crohn's disease, CT patterns of bowel wall thickening correlated with inflammatory activity. Thickened bowel wall with layering enhancement is predictive of acute disease, and that of homogeneous enhancement suggests quiescence. 
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12565208​
Acid was used to thicken the bowel wall in rats which is similar to CD strictures.
Similar findings were also present in a previously characterized experimental model of CD (trinitrobenzene sulfonic acid-induced colitis in rats), particularly in what appeared to be grossly strictured areas. Taken together, these findings suggest that increased mass of muscularis mucosae smooth muscle may be responsible in part for the commonly observed stricture formation in CD. 
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2020666?dopt=Abstract​




wildbill_52280 said:


> hello dave, i was wondering where these studies you are funding with the proceeds from the book were taking place exactly?


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## wildbill_52280

dave00 said:


> They should be taking place in the UK Wildbill.
> 
> More food for thought: *why does the bowel wall thicken in CD?*
> 
> This study discusses bowel-wall thickening in CD.
> In patients with Crohn's disease, CT patterns of bowel wall thickening correlated with inflammatory activity. Thickened bowel wall with layering enhancement is predictive of acute disease, and that of homogeneous enhancement suggests quiescence.
> Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12565208​
> Acid was used to thicken the bowel wall in rats which is similar to CD strictures.
> Similar findings were also present in a previously characterized experimental model of CD (trinitrobenzene sulfonic acid-induced colitis in rats), particularly in what appeared to be grossly strictured areas. Taken together, these findings suggest that increased mass of muscularis mucosae smooth muscle may be responsible in part for the commonly observed stricture formation in CD.
> Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2020666?dopt=Abstract​



awesome!! so which university in the uk?


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## Dave Watson

Should have all the details sorted out over the next couple of months.



wildbill_52280 said:


> awesome!! so which university in the uk?


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## bunsen

Hi Dave,
Thanks for all the research you have shared. I only stumbled upon your blog via Facebook a few nights ago, and it answered a lot of questions I have about crohns. I must admit that I too am sceptical about things like this for sale on the internet, but your arguments are logical and are backed by evidence.

I have crohns, diagnosed in 2001 I think, when I went to a surgeon with skin tags around my rear end. Biopsies and scope confirmed it. I had one major flare in 2005 with the usual symptoms. I also suffered swelling of the ankle and episcleritis. I struggled to wean off pred and was introduced to azathioprine.

I'm now 6 months into the aftermath of a perianal abscess, which resulted in a fistulectomy and Seton, and have also been introduced to humira. The Seton is now out and last week I almost felt normal again, but this week the healing wound has gotten sore again? Not sure if its the healing process or perhaps last weeks shot of humira wearing off? I don't have any typical crohns gut symptoms now, but about 10 months ago my gut would have me doubled over in pain for about 5 seconds before disappearing. This would happen a few times a day for about 2 month's.

I was wondering if you could explain, when you have time, how excess TNF affects non gut related issues associated with crohns? For example, episcleritis, swelling of joints and possibly seborrheic dermatitis (another item I currently have)? From my understanding, they all relate to inflammation, but I don't get the link to excess TNF.


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## Dave Watson

Great question. If excess TNF from the gut can get into the blood, and it can, can it explain the extra-intestinal manifestations of CD? Let me write this up.



bunsen said:


> I was wondering if you could explain, when you have time, how excess TNF affects non gut related issues associated with crohns? For example, episcleritis, swelling of joints and possibly seborrheic dermatitis (another item I currently have)? From my understanding, they all relate to inflammation, but I don't get the link to excess TNF.


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## wildbill_52280

dave00 said:


> Should have all the details sorted out over the next couple of months.


Well i was hoping for a better answer then that, there are alot of con artists trying to take advantage of desperate people that are struggling with crohns disease.

you claim to charge 50.00$ for the book because you are raising money for research, but you have no details about where this research is taking place nor who is conducting it or even exactly when this will happen. Now this Sounds like a scam.

Research typically isn't funded by books sales, immediate red flag. you are not even associated with any official organization that typically raises money for research.

you should have never said you were raising money for research, big mistake.
Now i think you are a liar dave. And some of the basic science of the intestine you do not even understand.


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## Dave Watson

First, if I decide I want to write an ebook and sell it (based on my personal research), then that's my prerogative.

Second, if I want to use the money for further research, then that's my prerogative also! I do not have to justify anything to you, and unknown to you I've already conducted self-funded research with Johne's disease. Not published, but I intend to carry out the research again and publish it. This research was not linked to any uni or any organisination. I had a strong hunch and wanted to prove it one way or another.

So, tell me very specifically, where have I lied? Be specific.

What basic science of the intestine have I got wrong (according to you)? If you’re referring to bacteria fermenting carbs that produce acid, I can write that up with several dozen citations. If I do, you either provide a scientific rebuttal or remove the post above and curb your ego?

I think you should have read my ebook before prejudging. 




wildbill_52280 said:


> Well i was hoping for a better answer then that, there are alot of con artists trying to take advantage of desperate people that are struggling with crohns disease.
> 
> you claim to charge 50.00$ for the book because you are raising money for research, but you have no details about where this research is taking place nor who is conducting it or even exactly when this will happen. Now this Sounds like a scam.
> 
> Research typically isn't funded by books sales, immediate red flag. you are not even associated with any official organization that typically raises money for research.
> 
> you should have never said you were raising money for research, big mistake.
> Now i think you are a liar dave. And some of the basic science of the intestine you do not even understand.


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## Moe.

Hey guys.
Wildbill I do understand where you are coming from.
But please do not accuse anyone on this board who is trying to help without the first reading the material. I have read dages material and I'm thankful unlike a million degree qualified GI's that he is trying. So as a friendly reminder share the love.

Hi Dave. Welcome to the forum and all. And please excuse wild ill but he is right in the sense of people getting scammed a lot. I've followed your research for a while and you have cited alot of your research. I'm sure you wouldn't have wasted so much time on ur private website and forum uploading all that material if you were a scam. 

Thanks for your help and hopefully in due time you can give more information into your funded research.


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## Dave Watson

Thanks for your kind words Moe.

I'm gonna write up a series of articles that reveal a completely new way of looking at Crohn's, that suggests it's curable. I will publish them on this forum for everyone to read, digest, respond to and even critique.




Moe. said:


> Hey guys.
> Wildbill I do understand where you are coming from.
> But please do not accuse anyone on this board who is trying to help without the first reading the material. I have read dages material and I'm thankful unlike a million degree qualified GI's that he is trying. So as a friendly reminder share the love.
> 
> Hi Dave. Welcome to the forum and all. And please excuse wild ill but he is right in the sense of people getting scammed a lot. I've followed your research for a while and you have cited alot of your research. I'm sure you wouldn't have wasted so much time on ur private website and forum uploading all that material if you were a scam.
> 
> Thanks for your help and hopefully in due time you can give more information into your funded research.


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## Moe.

Ur welcome and looking forward to hearing it


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## bunsen

Awesome! Thanks Dave, I think we all appreciate your efforts in this journey we all share. I guess some express it in different ways (like frustration).


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## kiny

dave00 said:


> First, if I decide I want to write an ebook and sell it (based on my personal research), then that's my prerogative.
> 
> Second, if I want to use the money for further research, then that's my prerogative also! I do not have to justify anything to you, and unknown to you I've already conducted self-funded research with Johne's disease. Not published, but I intend to carry out the research again and publish it. This research was not linked to any uni or any organisination. I had a strong hunch and wanted to prove it one way or another.
> 
> So, tell me very specifically, where have I lied? Be specific.
> 
> What basic science of the intestine have I got wrong (according to you)? If you’re referring to bacteria fermenting carbs that produce acid, I can write that up with several dozen citations. If I do, you either provide a scientific rebuttal or remove the post above and curb your ego?
> 
> I think you should have read my ebook before prejudging.


I agree with WildBill. You said you were going to fund studies but you can't provide any names of the researchers, and frankly your site looks like a scam site.

If you in any way are lying or are abusing people with crohn's disease when they're vulnerable and taking advantage of them I will report your butt to authorities without blinking.

You said you were funding studies with the money, which are they?


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## David

I'm going to close this thread as it has gotten a bit hostile.

Dave, I can tell you've spent a lot of time researching and educating yourself about Crohn's disease which I respect a lot.  I don't believe it is, "All about TNF" considering a subset of people with Crohn's disease do not respond to TNF inhibitors, but it definitely plays a role for many and I love how much you're working on this.

You're welcome to start a new thread discussing your research Dave.  If you do indeed have a cure for Crohn's, I'll be the first person pushing for your inevitable Nobel Prize in Medicine which will be worth far more than any ebook sales.  Speaking of which, I'm afraid we can't have you linking to your site as it would violate this rule.  Sorry.  I do hope you continue to share your perspective.

If Dave does continue to share his perspective, I ask those of you who were hostile towards him to either debate him in a courteous manner or avoid his thread.

Thank you.

Thread closed.


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