# "I've cured myself of Crohn's Disease – thanks to John Wayne"



## nogutsnoglory

*"I've cured myself of Crohn's Disease – thanks to John Wayne"*

This article is really pissing me off. I won't even copy the text here so as not to give legitimacy. I understand it's a tabloid but this is a serious disease and this article is dangerous. 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/ive-cured-myself-crohns-disease-3726075


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## Jmrogers4

That's crazy.... It certainly doesn't say anything about labs/doctors confirming his supposed cure/remission.  A year symptom free certainly does not constitute a cure.  If only it were so easy  I would be feeding this to my hubby and son.


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## DJW

I don't know what I can say....that won't make this an 18+ post. 

Even worse, a desperate person may decide to follow this guys "cure" and abruptly stop all meds, which may include prednisone.  It's a recipe for disaster.


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## valleysangel92

I saw this earlier..  It's emerged in the after math of all the nonsense in the media over here..  

I could not believe it when I read it,  it is so utterly rediculous and completely undermines the severity of this disease.  I am more than done with the British media in the past few days.


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## nogutsnoglory

I just really lack words or like DJW, polite words to describe my feelings about this article. To call one guys story a cure is in itself insane, to have no scientific backing is another and to make it all worse people might try this now or tell people "there is a cure for crohns, i read about it" 

12 day old bread can get people sick no? Doesn't sound like a crohns cure and more like a bacterial infection waiting to happen.


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## valleysangel92

Im also running out of polite words,  I'm not generally an angry person,  but after the slating crohns and ibd in general has taken in our media im struggling to keep my temper any more.  It's amazing how much damage one misinformed idiot can do when put on the countries most trusted broadcaster to millions of people.


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## Orchid

The only surprise in this article is the bread isn't gluten free and organic.  God the press is so stupid.


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## valleysangel92

Oh yeah , people are always jumping on the gluten free bandwagon .. Makes me sick when I see gluten free being used as a weight loss diet or something.. Makes those of us who really need it look like we do it for fun..


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## Orchid

Bright side: This fad means you have a lot more cooking options for a few years! It'll go the way of Atkins soon enough.


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## valleysangel92

That's definitely true, I've been diagnosed 7 years and it's already got much more wide spread.  My peadi GI actually said 'you'll find as you get older you'll find more and more food,  because gluten free food is expensive and companies will exploit that to make as much money as possible' .


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## Orchid

God eating must be so expensive for you, my sympathies.


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## wildbill_52280

there is almost no way he is cured, so unlikely but here some possible explanations if this is even true at all.

He said he fasted for 24 hours, that may have put him in a remission as it can dramatically lower inflammation, and work like anti inflammatory drugs that are used to treat crohn's already look for studies if you don't believe me. Also, good bacteria may have colonized the old moldy bread, but microwaving it would have killed them, but the proteins may have been intact, these proteins also could have have antibacterial properties and put him in remission or even have been anti inflammatory.


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## theOcean

I am so dumbfounded and angry right now.


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## nogutsnoglory

Upon looking at this picture, I do declare, I am cured!


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## Igor_Passau

from all posts nobody believe in miracle and me too


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## SallyJane

*Stale Bread Anyone?*

Hi,

I have just read in a UK paper, The Daily Mail, an article about an elderly gentleman, who has suffered badly with Crohns all his life.  Prompted by something he saw on television, he decided to try a home made treatment for his condition.

He cut 7 slices of bread and left it on the side in the kitchen, covered with a cloth.  The day before he was due to eat it, he fasted.
Milk was added to the bread and then microwaved - and eaten!
He said from that day on he had no more diarrheah and had normal bowel functions.  He only tried it the once and has never had any problems since.

Has anyone tried this?  It doesn't sound very appetizing, but if it works, then worth a try?

Sally


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## theOcean

If the cure was that easy, we'd all be cured. But we aren't, unfortunately. This article is just spreading a lot of false information about Crohn's.


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## D Bergy

I don't see any downside in trying it.  

Dan


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## DJW

nogutsnoglory said:


> Upon looking at this picture, I do declare, I am cured!


Maybe I should make that piece of bread my new avitar.


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## nogutsnoglory

12 day old bread could have fungus and get you sick. Even if there was no downside you don't just do things just because. Tap your toes 5 times and quack like a chicken, it MAY help your crohns.


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## D Bergy

I think any person of average intelligence is not going to eat moldy bread. 

When a 70 year old man who has suffered with the disease for decades suddenly goes into remission after trying something new, it gets my attention.  He has nothing to sell, gets no benefit from telling his story.  He can count on a lot of ridicule. 

The dumb part is anyone can test it at no cost, and yet we would prefer to debate "how many teeth are in the horses mouth". 

If it works for one person out of a thousand it is worth while.  If it doesn't, nobody is out anything. 

Dan


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## DJW

If you want to test it go for it. The issue is the media not covering the reality of the disease. People not knowing the difference between IBS and IBD. Big Pharma making crohns look like the biggest issue is finding a bathroom when your out. Now the media all over this. Why don't you people (crohns suffers) all just eat stale bread, get cured and be happy. That's the real issue.  I'm glad he's in remission. I have a huge problem with the word cure.  It minimizes the realty of IBD.


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## SupportiveMom

DJW, I agree with the issue of using the word cure. He might have achieved remission but certainly isn't cured. Maybe he won't get another flare in his lifetime but that doesn't mean the disease is gone.


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## D Bergy

I agree that cure is not the correct terminology.  He is not a researcher and the reporter certainly knows the difference, but "cure" sells media. Of course it is sensationalized like everything else.  

I just don't think personal accounts should be tossed aside just because they seem unlikely to be true.  He is more credible to me than the pharma company hawking treatments, or the multi level marketing person selling some kind of cure all. They all have financial interests in their treatments.  This man has none.
He may be wrong, but he is unlikely to have any other agenda. 

Since his method has almost zero chance of causing harm, and costs nothing, why not try it?

I have tried stranger things, and some do help. 

I won't be trying it because I currently have no symptoms.  I have no way to measure results.  I would be interested in positive or negative results of anyone that does try it. 

Its not like Merck is ever going to study it. 

Dan


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## nogutsnoglory

Honestly it's so out there I expect it to be an April fools joke or on a comic news site like the onion. He may be truly trying to help but he is just in remission and who knows why. Considering all the research suggesting grains might be part of the prob in IBD I'm not gonna shove my face full of old white bread. I'll just enjoy a nice fresh bread, keep calm and crohns on.


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## D Bergy

Not as out there as helminth therapy and fecal transplants. This seems pretty pedestrian by comparison.  

I would be more concerned about either of those two treatments. Hard to get past the yuk factor alone. 

Dan


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## nogutsnoglory

Sorry, I can't give any credence to this nonsense. Millions of people with and without crohns eat bread, some with problems and some without. The worms are based on tricking the immune system. It might be yuck but it's based on the hygiene hypothesis and there is a basis for it. This has no basis, no research, no other anecdotes even and on top of that most of us on this forum eat bread and hot water!


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## wildbill_52280

D Bergy said:


> Not as out there as helminth therapy and fecal transplants. This seems pretty pedestrian by comparison.
> 
> I would be more concerned about either of those two treatments. Hard to get past the yuk factor alone.
> 
> Dan



out there? 

Fecal Transplants are backed by super solid science, we are missing bacteria in our guts and replacing these bacteria could help treat the disease. The good bacteria regulate the inflammatory response.


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## D Bergy

Fecal transplants help those with c-diff but last I heard, had no lasting effect for Crohns.  
But, that is not the point.  The science begins with a hypothesis or an accidental discovery, hunch, whatever.  Somebody has to have enough curiosity to actually try whatever the proposed treatment is. 

While it is convenient to have the hypothesis first, the hypothesis is only proven by actual results. I'm the case of Crohns, the hygiene hypothesis has not proven true by actual results, so why is that of more value than something that has one claim of positive results but no hypothesis?

Either way the results must come from actual people testing the proposed treatment. Since this one has virtually no risk, why debate it.  Test it.  Either it works or it won't. How much simpler can it possibly be. 

If you read my link posted under research you will see an article regarding the regeneration of stem cells caused by nothing more than fasting alone.   If you need a tenuous hypothesis to grab on to, use that one.  

This is not a complex problem.  Test it or don't test it. But, speculation is really getting nobody anywhere. 

Dan


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## Jennifer

"I take my miracle cure on a regular basis to keep everything under control..."

Why would you need to if you were cured? You've gone low residue to an extreme and unhealthy at that. 

I had 14 years of remission yet am now in a flare. There is no cure. What a load of horseshit.


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## SallyJane

Well, I agree with Dan. If I was in a flare right now, I would be attempted to try it. Yes, it is one man's story, but it has worked for him. 
If anyone does try it, I too would be interested to hear the results.

This guy did not say he was cured - just that his BMs returned to normal and he has had no symptoms since. Considering he's had a lifetime dealing with Crohns, it sounds more than just coincidence. 

Sally


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## Jennifer

SallyJane said:


> Well, I agree with Dan. If I was in a flare right now, I would be attempted to try it. Yes, it is one man's story, but it has worked for him.
> If anyone does try it, I too would be interested to hear the results.
> 
> This guy did not say he was cured - just that his BMs returned to normal and he has had no symptoms since. Considering he's had a lifetime dealing with Crohns, it sounds more than just coincidence.
> 
> Sally


For one there's the misleading title: I've cured myself of Crohn's Disease – thanks to John Wayne

In the article he states, "I haven’t had any problems since, not a single episode and *I honestly believe the bread mixture cured me*."

"I *had* a very serious case of Crohn’s and now *it has gone completely* and I can eat normally without worrying."


He's fasting before he goes on an extreme low residue mixture (the milk and sugar aren't low residue but his main focus is on the stale bread). For some fasting can help with symptoms and so can the low residue diet.

He goes on to state, "I take my *miracle cure* on a regular basis to keep everything under control..." Again he claims it's a cure.

How often is a regular basis? Daily? Weekly? Whenever his symptoms return (although that wouldn't be a regular basis unless his Crohn's is still constantly active)?

Do not go off your medication to eat something that people were forced to eat when they had very little food. Of course eating nearly nothing will help with symptoms like diarrhea and liquid diets have shown to help reduce inflammation but you need nutrients so this is all temporary. The inflammation is still there. Symptom free doesn't mean inflammation free.


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## Jennifer

D Bergy said:


> I think any person of average intelligence is not going to eat moldy bread.
> 
> When a 70 year old man who has suffered with the disease for decades suddenly goes into remission after trying something new, it gets my attention.  He has nothing to sell, gets no benefit from telling his story.  He can count on a lot of ridicule.
> 
> The dumb part is anyone can test it at no cost, and yet we would prefer to debate "how many teeth are in the horses mouth".
> 
> If it works for one person out of a thousand it is worth while.  If it doesn't, nobody is out anything.
> 
> Dan


My parents didn't have a lot of money and often times our bread was old and often moldy. My parents told us to just pick off the mold and we did. Eating moldy bread as a child is one of the things that I often wonder if it contributed to my and my sister's onset of Crohn's in the same year (1991).


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## D Bergy

Not too long ago I bought one of those chuck wagon sandwiches from a convenience store, put it in the microwave and took a big bite out of it.  It tasted funny so I looked at the bottom of it.  It was covered with that blue mold.  

Not the first time that has happened as I recognized the taste. 

I wouldn't recommend eating moldy food but as far as I could tell, it did not make me ill.  

Gosh, my family did not have much money, but we were not that poor that we ate spoiled food.  That's really poor and unfortunate. Sorry you had it so rough. 

As little money as we had, I used to split my school lunch with my friend.  I never thought about it as a child, but in later years found out he did not bring a lunch because they had no food for him to bring.  

Ok, off topic but just made me remember the poverty days.  

Dan


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## nogutsnoglory

I'm honestly shocked people are giving any validity to this madness. This was a piece by a tabloid and it's dangerous because people will get off their meds and try it. This was a good headline for them and it generates buzz. You know how many "cures" for crohns we have seen over the years? Yet, more and more people are getting diagnosed. This kind of "journalism" is dangerous.


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## Jennifer

The guy himself could be flat out lying just for publicity so hopefully people are taking that into account. 

He's using pasteurized milk instead of boiled water, no sultanas (yucky white/green raisins), artificial sugar instead of real sugar (what kind? Many of us can't even tolerate certain artificial sugars) and I'm willing to bet that's not the same bread they had back then either. It's a recipe he made up after being inspired by something he didn't really want to eat. It's bumpkiss.


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## wellen1981

Jennifer said:


> The guy himself could be flat out lying just for publicity so hopefully people are taking that into account.
> 
> He's using pasteurized milk instead of boiled water, no sultanas (yucky white/green raisins), artificial sugar instead of real sugar (what kind? Many of us can't even tolerate certain artificial sugars) and I'm willing to bet that's not the same bread they had back then either. It's a recipe he made up after being inspired by something he didn't really want to eat. It's bumpkiss.


Why are you so defensive?

(maybe defensive isn't the right word here, but you seem hell bent on calling the guy out even though the science behind it could well hold up)

Funny how for years the medical profession (not globally, I might add) has thought that Crohn's was the body's immune system attacking itself yet now all roads are pointing to it being a bacterial infection.


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## DJW

So following his method would/could cure crohns? Believing being symptom free means cured can lead to serious complications down the road. 

I have issues with self reported cures. (There is no shortage of them on the internet). The testimony of one person doesn't cut it. Can not be taken as fact. 

Is the bacterial infection you mentioned MAP?

The cause of IBD is not fully understood. But include:

Bacteria
Genetics
Abnormal immune response
Environmental factors

There are no easy answers. Unfortunately.


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## D Bergy

You would have to make several assumptions to know if it worked or not. 

The first being that this person is telling the whole story and is being truthful in his statements. 

If we just take him at his word, that's not the end of the assumptions. 

Then you have to assume he is correctlyl diagnosed to begin with. 

If he is correctly diagnosed, then we have to know what is Crohns really?  It is a collection of symptoms with no single 100% proven cause of any kind. It could be one cause, multiple causes, or various combination of causes. 

There is not even a treatment that works reliably for the disease. 

How on earth can you say one way or another whether he resolved his symptoms or not with so many variables involved?

I think it's amusing that this thread won't die.  People will spend more time and effort debating it, than simply testing it. 

I guarantee you one thing.  Like any other treatment, it absolutely will not work for everyone. Maybe no one 

Dan


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## DJW

Very good points Dan. 

I've had more than enough serious complications with this disease I'm not into experimenting. I can't afford more. Have you tried it?


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## D Bergy

No I have not. 

I am not symptomatic so I have no way of measuring the effects, if any. 

One thing I have noticed is eating a large amount of bread both gives me horrible gas and firms up the stool. I have no Iliocal valve so it is easy to tell. 

I treat using an unapproved quack treatment that can't resolve any problem according to official sources.  Since I have spent over eight years treating my wife and now myself using the same method, I do not pay too much attention to what is thought to work.  I just test it and see for myself if it works. 

In both my case and my wife's, we really had no choice.  She couldn't get treatment, and my treatments failed to keep me in remission. 

Try things to help yourself.  You don't have to go off your meds to do it. There are causes for the disease, and not all are known. I never learned anything by doing nothing.  Failures are guaranteed, but you also learn from them. 

Never give up. Ever. 

Dan


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## mf15

If the story is true,then what might lead to remission.
Stale dry bread will not necessarily get mold.
So what else might be going on.
Stale dry bread is retrograded/resistant starch.
Resistant starch makes butyric acid from fermentation in the colon,can also act
as food for these bugs.
RS is a type of starch that is not digested in the small intestine,but is fermented in the
colon.
If you ate enough of it might even cause a switch in the type of bacteria
that are growing.
Old Mike
oral butyrate crohn's mini trial
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16225487


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## Jennifer

wellen1981 said:


> Why are you so defensive?
> 
> (maybe defensive isn't the right word here, but you seem hell bent on calling the guy out even though the science behind it could well hold up)
> 
> Funny how for years the medical profession (not globally, I might add) has thought that Crohn's was the body's immune system attacking itself yet now all roads are pointing to it being a bacterial infection.


We've seen a lot of medical quackery on the forum over the years. This one is nothing new. You cannot claim "cure" after such a short period of time. Nor can you say it's a cure if you still do it on a regular basis or when your symptoms return. I could have easily said I was "cured" after my resection and suggested that everyone get one as it put me into remission for 14 years. That's quite the assumption and dangerous. Yet others have had the same surgical procedure and weren't in remission for nearly as long, some only lasted a few months. We have absolutely no proof that this man is in remission and since they mentioned taking it on a regular basis, chances are they never were in remission and have small amounts of inflammation building up that will cause more problems later in life (strictures from scar tissue caused by not treating the inflammation). 

As mentioned above, thus far no one treatment works for everyone. That doesn't mean that members haven't tried alternative treatments or that they don't still continue to do so. Some are also going alternative in combination with Western medicine. Everyone should try their best to find what works for them but if symptoms keep returning then it's clearly not working. 

I'm defensive because there are thousands of desperate members on this forum and it's important to point out flaws in claims for "cures" such as this man's because he continues to use this made up "treatment."

"I take my miracle cure on a regular basis to keep everything under control..." Why do this if you're cured? "Under control?" Sounds like minor returning symptoms since he was once severe (anything less than severe is an amazing feeling). Also most importantly, there's no evidence besides his vast reduction in symptoms. No tests shared to prove that he is in fact in remission other than stating, "I have amazed my doctor." If your doctor is content with your reduction in symptoms then that's not a good doctor because no amount of chronic inflammation is acceptable.


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## teluwot

Fortunately I don't have crohn's but deeply deeply sympathise with those who do. I know young people who've suffered terribly. So I was very interested reading of the gentleman who generously shared such personal details in a national paper re his use of a bread poultice to good effect. But am bemused by so much negativity, apart from Dan? If it worked for this man, wonderful! Maybe it'll help others, maybe not, but there's no harm trying and if it were me, I'd try anything. Btw, I've had bread drying in a cotton bag for ten months, to use for breadcrumbs. It isn't mouldy, just stale. Wrapped in plastic it would've gone mouldy.


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## teluwot

Bread poultices have been used long before we were born, on animals and humans with great success for all manner of ailments. Drawing out poisons & puss from boils, infections etc. What is to say it wouldn't work internally? I'm v happy someone felt it did help him after so many years of suffering.  God bless him I say!


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## Grumpy1

I'm new here and what I say isn't going to carry a lot of weight but here it is.  I have Crohn's - no one else in my family has ever had Crohn's that we are aware of.  I didn't ask for it, I didn't catch it, I didn't get it because I'm overweight, underweight or blonde - I got it because.   So far none of the medications we have tried have worked for me - I am perpetually allergic to everything and that seems to include those drugs that will help me the most right now.  And I realize that trying this isn't going to hurt anything or cost anything but I have to say that being as sick as I am and in as much pain as I'm in I don't think that eating old bread soaked in anything is going to achieve anything but a trip to the bathroom and I spend enough time there as it is.  
I believe there are things that we don't know and cures as old as time that we haven't discovered yet but this isn't one of them.  Chinese medicine, acupuncture, acupressure, herbal medicine, dietary controls - but moldy bread - really?


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## teluwot

I am sorry to hear of your plight. As I am sorry to know of others. I understand why you can't risk 'experiments,' of course. I was just happy for the man in the article that seemed to find improvement for his.
I hope you also come across something one day soon that will greatly improve your condition. We live in hope! Best wishes to you.


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## teluwot

I don't have Crohn's but somehow stumbled across this site a few days ago. Though I do have diverticulosis and bowel habits changed a couple of years ago. Tried BRAT (bananas rice apple toast) and all sorts to no avail. Seemed for years as if food went through my system too fast. Ergo, intrigued by man who found stale bread helped his misery with Crohn's, and urged on by scepticism of his story on this site, I decided to experiment on myself. What's the worst can happen I thought? Left white bread (with crusts) under tea towel for days to go dry. Yesterday put 2 slices in bowl with milk & water, microwaved and ate it at noon. I hadn't fasted but it was my first meal of the day. This morning? I'm still here and only one 'non urgent' trip to the loo! compared with the usual three urgent trips within an hour of waking. It may be a fluke, but I will eat more today and see if this improvement continues. I was reluctant to turn to pharma drugs and if bread & milk sops do the trick then sops are on the menu!


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## DJW

I'm glad you had success. Keep it up. Let us know how it goes.


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## JMC

When I looked up bread poultice, it turns out that is a home made form of antibiotic (I would guess penicillin).  If this man has greatly reduced or cured his symptoms through a home made antibiotic, I actually think it is quite an interesting story, given the growing evidence of a pathogen as the cause of Crohn's.  I suspect though, that what he has actually done is cure a secondary gut infection with the antibiotics, not his Crohn's.

If I was working in Crohn's research, I would at least call the guy up and get in him for evaluation, any new piece of information is useful, but I doubt that has happened.


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## teluwot

How interesting you found the bread poultice is a home made antibiotic! I have just eaten it again today but even before I did, I realised I haven't been obsessed/concerned with trips to the loo as I've been for the last couple of years. As in, am I safe to go out now? do I need to visit the bathroom one more time? etc. I did notice a very, very tiny slightly mouldy/old flavour to it. But it was slight and I carried on eating it. (Although when left to go stale there is no visible green mould as there would be had it been left in plastic wrapping. And I'm still alive to tell the tale!)  
Our Mum used to give us milk sops as children. Whether for a particular reason or because in the 50s food was still rationed and they wasted nothing I don't know. (And we didn't have multiple packets of cereals in the house as people do now. Porridge mainly.) I'll keep you posted and say if tomorrow I find the same improvement. I would be delighted if it really could help others.


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## Axelfl3333

The blue mold is penicilin and isn't,t very nice but it's harmless and basically the seeds for all modern anti-biotics and was like a lot of breakthroughs discovered by accident.there was a recent one regarding cystic fibrosis,something to do with a mould!discovered by a student doing boring collation says a summer job,I wouldn't,t imagine she,ll be unemployed when she finishes university.the newspaper this article is from I wouldn't,t use it it wipe my backside


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## SallyJane

Hi Teluwot,
I hope this experiment works for you.  I think I'm in remission, as otherwise I would probably give it a go too.  I will find out for sure, in early August! When I go for my next consultant appointment. 
If I have any sign of inflammation, I will be tempted to try this too.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I wouldn't stop the medication (LDN) though, as it is certainly working for me.
Best of luck,
Sally


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## teluwot

Hi Sally, thanks for your comments. I must add I in no way compare my 'condition' to the seriousness Crohn's nor diminish the suffering of those who have it. I am really quite ignorant about the science of it. I was merely drawn to the 'Stale bread & Crohn's' story as I know young people who have suffered the misery of it and wondered if it could help them also. Then as a result of this forum, decided to experiment on myself yesterday. So far so good. I believed emphatically it indeed helped the man in the story. And that there is something in it. If in a week my personal improvement upholds, I will be more convinced. (btw, if something helps anyone at all, I wouldn't care if it was published in the Beano!) Good luck for you and long may it continue.


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## wellen1981

Some facts for you regarding bread...

Bread releases moisture over time and that is why if bread is left in a sealed area you get mold on it - you can test this yourself by leaving a slice of bread out for a week on a plate and leaving another slice wrapped up in the packet it came in for the same amount of time.

All that happens to bread left out is that the moisture escapes into the room and the slice gets rock solid.

What I found more interesting about the newspapers factual accuracy when reporting this story is that if you tried this and used sugar that would likely be exactly the fuel the pathogens were after (so probably a bad idea) also as previously found lactose (naturally found sugars occuring in milk) is supposed to be another fuel.

So my only question to the man in the article would be what type of bread, sugar and milk did he actually use?

Sorry to necro the thread but yeah, you wont find mold on bread left out - it is only if you seal bread that the mold happens due to moisture released by the bread.


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## aideen33

I take issue less with his claim that he somehow got into remission with this "miracle" (though i find that questionable at best), and more with the idea that both he and this article lend legitimacy to the idea that just up and stopping medications abruptly is somehow a good or even safe idea!


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## teluwot

Hello Wellen 1981, the man in the story didn't mention sugar. Just stale bread with milk. Maybe I mentioned I took sugar on mine (and maybe not a good idea as you say!) It was not really discovered why my BM's changed nearly 3 years ago, (from 'normal' and going once in the morning, maybe again in the evening to v loose and becoming a daily worry,) apart from a colonoscopy showing diverticulosis. No foods that should have helped made any difference. All I can say is for me, the stale bread is the only thing that helped! I made a little cotton bag with an old tea towel and keep old bread in it all the time. (White bread that I soak in half milk half water and microwave.)


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## teluwot

Like the man in the story, I too eat the stale bread poultice every few weeks. Just in case. Although as I'm no longer obsessed with trips to the loo as before, I tend to forget! But it  has most definitely made a difference for me.


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## D Bergy

Ok, we have a living experiment taking place.  

Did you change anything else in what you eat, or quit smoking, change medications, etc?

Any experiment requires as many controls as possible.  That reduces the chances something else is causing the change. 

We need some longer term follow up.  It may be a temporary effect.  Are you going to have a routine colonoscopy in the near future? 

Now I would like to have a hypothesis. I like the resistant starch one, but it's we likely won't know with any certainty.  

I hope it holds long term.  Thanks for reporting back so something was learned.  I expected it would only work as long as you ate the mixture, if at all.  I would not have expected any lasting effect.   

It pays to try things for yourself sometimes.  Just don't assume its curative.  You only know with some certainty, that it helped with one symptom.  Just like Cholestyramine helps me with a symptom. 

Good show. 

Dan


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## MissCadenza

It was in the Mirror, I hardly think it's a reliable source of medical advice and if you really believe that something as utterly daft as this will work for you then I'm sorry, but I'm filing you under I for 'imbecile'. But then I suppose if you're desperate for a 'cure' then you'll try anything, right?

And you can't 'cure' crohn's, you can only go into remission. So yet again the British media is spreading false facts about this disease. Well done. This is why I only use newspapers for paper mache and not for reading.


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## D Bergy

Thanks for the support of someone who has the good luck of finding something that helps. 

Dan


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## SallyJane

Hi, 

We all know that Crohns can't be cured. The old chap, who was the subject of the start of this thread, found it works for him. It now appears to be working for Teluwat.

I would definitely try it if I go into a flare - I would still continue with my medication.

It would be good to hear from anyone else who has tried and seen results, or, indeed, anyone who has tried and failed.

I persuaded my doctor to prescribe LDN for my Crohns, against his better judgement. I was so close to having surgery, with two fistulas complicating matters. I am now in full remission. This drug is not prescribed for Crohns generally in the UK. The consultant said I had opened his eyes. So, why can't stale bread be tried?

No one, not even the medical profession, knows it all.
Maybe we all need to open our eyes to other options, which are already working, albeit it so far, for the minority?

Sally


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## teluwot

Hi Dan. I agree with all you say and in reply to you, no, i changed nothing. I eat pretty healthy food, I'm 8 stone and not on any medications. I'd tried dairy free 2 years ago but it made no difference. Nothing did. Until I ate the bread poultice.  (Maybe it only works on imbeciles, but this imbecile is happy!) I do not have Crohn's and it was never really found what the problem was. Sort of suggested it was something I had to live with. So I've no plans for another colonoscopy. Best wishes to you and thanks for your politeness!


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## D Bergy

I guess that is part of the problem.  Being misdiagnosed or properly diagnosed with no certain cause.  Given that, none of us can predict what might work because we do not know what the cause is in the first place.  

Let us know of any change in status.  You don't have to be a scholar to get better, but you do have to have curiosity, and realize the answer may not be what fits your world view.  

Dan


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## teluwot

Sure Dan, & as you say, uncertainty & so many variables! But I have to say a small 'few' have been v rude/abusive on this site. Re man in the story who this debate started with. My point being, why would a gent of senior years who has suffered greatly from Crohn's for 40 years, including 3 with a colostomy bag, have his photo & story published re such a personal issue. It took me a year to see a lady doctor! & I couldn't discuss it with family or friends. (I'm female.) I think he was v brave and generous to share it. Hats off to him.


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## SallyJane

I agree.


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## D Bergy

I think it is different for females and age makes a difference also.  As a male, I am not as sensitive about symptoms, and discussing them.  I don't bring it up in casual conversation, but I have no qualm about discussing it.  But, I am over 50 and health problems are often starting up at that age.  It not like I am going to get laughed at for running for the bathroom.  At my age I don't care if someone does.  

People that are ill, especially with an inflammatory disease are naturally irritable, and it affects your personality when flared.  I had depression for over thirty years, and other people suffered because of it. Especially my wife.  

I did eliminate it by accident, but we do have to remember most people here are ill and it has its consequences.  We have to accept that any one of use can make a poor showing at any given time.  I didn't post at all when at my worst.  I know how bad I can get and it's far worse than anything I have seen here.  

I just hope everyone can find help here.  It's a miserable disease, and I don't blame anyone for not being at their best when they are so ill. 

Dan


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## teluwot

Sure Dan. That did occur to me. Make allowances et al. It's the difference in people I guess. Some I've known, (sadly no longer here,) suffered their various illnesses with tremendous dignity, not ever lashing out at others, due to their innate beneficence I'm sure. While others in good health are nasty anyway. I just didn't appreciate being called an imbecile when my only intention was to share my experiment in the tiny hope it might help others as it has me. One young has already told me it has helped her! Hooray.


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## teluwot

Correction. I meant 'Young lady.' She sent me questions in a private message. I sent back a few replies including my email address, but found the sender was limited to private messages, so I'm not sure if she received the final one. However, I'm delighted she found the bread poultice has helped her too. Kindly note I do not say 'cure!' but 'helped' and made a big difference. Good wishes to all and hope for a cure someday soon.


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## teamredfox

Dear Teluwot, Just wondering how you are going three or so years since you wrote your post re:success with eating dry bread. Please be so kind as to update on your current health as I am thinking of trying the bread trick! Many thanks


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## teluwot

Hello Teamredfox. I have since had major surgery for an altogether different condition. And consequently still take Cocodamol that obviously stabilises BMs, as it can cause constipation. So It has been a long time since i used the stale bread.  I cannot honestly say that the stale bread can help with Crohn's as i have never had Crohn's. All I could claim was that the stale bread did make a difference to me the first time I tried it, at a time when BMs were very loose for a long time and when all else failed.
Oh I've just remembered. I had a visitor from Thailand 2 years ago who said he had diarrhoea for ages and  eventually bought some "Lactaid" off the internet and it was so good he only needed a few. (12 caplets in the box.) As my problem hadn't subsided completely I ordered some too and they were amazing for me! I only used half of them and never needed anything else again. (Long before I was taking Cocodamol.) Good luck to you!


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## teamredfox

Dear Teluwot, I'm sorry to hear you have had major surgery. I hope you have recovered well from it.  Thank you so much for your reply. I've since done the 24hr fast and eaten the stale bread and milk. Unfortunately I've had bad stomach cramps since, with no improvement in my condition. But who knows, It's only 5 days since having it, so maybe a miracle will happen once my intestines get over a chunk of bread mass going through! Thanks for the info regarding Lactaid, I will do some research on it. Glad it helped your visitor. I hope that you are well and stay well. Best regards


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