# Oral thrush.....again!!!!!



## Keona

anyone get acute infections of oral thrush (also in throat and possibly stomach, etc) BEFORE they were medicated for Crohn's?  Steroids cause thrush.  Im not on any and the doctors are scratching their heads as to why I have it repeatedly.

First time, I had it for months.  Was put on baby dose of Nystatin by dumb ass doctor (so this doesn't count.

Second time:  Was put on adult dose of Nystatin.  Went away for a day or two.

Third time:  Took cycle of difulcan pills - went away (very expensive pills)

This time: On 4 large bottles of Nystatin 4x's day.... on day two.

I think it would be logical to figure out WHY I am getting it along with treating me for it.  My diet can be ruled out, etc.....

Any suggestions that work and I will do your dishes for a month


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## merrywidow

do you use asthma inhalers? they have a steroid in them.
also a "cure" for oral thrush is natural yoghurt.


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## Dexky

Do the symptoms precede any uptick in your crohns?


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## D Bergy

Alcohol use can cause thrush in the mouth throat area if your immune system is not working properly.

My wife has Lyme Disease, and when she used a Homeopathic Remedy, quite a while ago, she developed this on her tongue.  She has to quite using it because of the Thrush.  It had a strong alcohol base, and it caused her problems.
Her immune system was compromised from the Lyme at that time.

Sugar and Carbs feed fungus, and they are present in all of us.  The only real way to keep them to  minimal level is not to feed them any more than you have to.

Oil of Oregano is potent against fungus, and to a lesser extent, so is Coconut Oil.  

I also know of people that use the old time remedy of Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine on sugar to clear out fungus, but that is very small doses, and I would not recommend that unless you really know what you are doing.  I have never used it personally.

Dan


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## glum chump

I had the revolving door oral thrush problem a few years ago as well. Yuck! After a whole bunch of different pills, my doctor ended up prescribing Fluconazole (Diflucan) which really helped. 

Around the same time, I started doing oral salt-water rinses every day and taking acidophilus pills. 

I also stopped using mouthwash---it contains alcohol and was also wreaking havoc on the thrush. 

Switching to an electric toothbrush also helped, just to make it less of a pain to brush my teeth.


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## Astra

Hiya Wendy
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/o/oral_thrush/causes.htm

here, read this, lots of long unpronouncable words!

I get it a lot, especially on anti biotics, and cos I eat too many sweets!
xxx


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## Keona

Thanks everyone,
Nope, dont use any kind of steroids including inhalers or  havent been on any antibiotics.  I dont eat a lot of sugar.  I did last Saturday have a pop because of the sugar.  I went for a long hike and felt really weak (7 1/2 hours!) so I intentionally bought a pop b/c of the sugar.  Other than that - I dont eat sugar very much.  I am eating a lot of natural yogurt.  I had 4 individual containers yesterday alone and because of my strictures, I have basically cut out all carbs (pasta, bread, etc).  I am eating lots of soup.
@ Dexky.  I wonder about this - if theyre connected.  The things that confuses me is how can I have Crohns??  Crohn's is an overreactive autoimmune system.  Thrush thrives in a compromised autoimmune system....

@ D Bergy:  I havent had any alcohol for about a year now so that can be ruled out.  I dont use any products with alcohol (i.e mouthwash).  Just toothpaste and floss. I will definitely try the oil of oregano.  Does it do the same thing if I put oregano on everything?  Umm, ya..I dont know anything about turpentine being ingested.  I'd likely cause more damage 
@ Glum chump - thats exactly what it is like.  A revolving door.  I get so excited that it is gone for it to only resurface.  I was on the same pills that worked for me as well but they are very expensive.  Im back on Nystatin.... 4 bottles of it.  I have an electric toothbrush that I will get out and use again.  I keep throwing away my disposable ones as there would be the bacteria on that so I have been going through a lot of toothbrushes.
@ Joan:  I dont even take sugar in my coffee. Not much of a sugar person.  I was more of a chips and popcorn kind of person...I do like chocolate but it has been quite awhile as I dont tolerate it well.  Thanks for the link also - youre right, a lot of big words that I have no idea what they are or what they mean.  I dont have Aids or diabetes... I recognized those!!   Things that are left are high stress and immunocompromise diseases, viral infection and abscesses.  I had a stool sample done and they didn't call me so nothing is wrong.  It was to check for parasites, worms etc... <shudder> I don't think there is a test to confirm oral thrush, they confirm it by ruling out other stuff.  I also had a swab done of my mouth and it came back without any other sort of bacterial things so they are fairly sure it is candida. 
I am going to look up all those words Joan and see if it says anything about Crohn's.  Is Crohn's considered a immunocompromise disease?  It's overactive I thought.

Thanks everyone, at least you gave me things to avoid, to try and stuff to read.  I will do all that for awhile and see what happens.  I did go on the thrush diet (only with more things excluded).

Baffled,
Wendy


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## D Bergy

The mainstream medical theory is that the immune system is overactive.

The not as popular, but more correct theory in my opinion is the immune system is either weak or dysfunctional.  It may work correctly in some respects, but not others.

You can improve symptoms by either suppressing the immune response further, so it is not causing damage from inflammation, or boost it and allow the immune system to remove what is bothering it, or at least deal with it more effectively.

Both are a balancing act, and neither method is perfect.

I chose the boosting method with LDN because it is relatively safe, minimal side effects, and it protects from other autoimmune diseases and Cancer.

Ultimately, everyone has to use the method that works for them the best.  We do not all respond the same to any given treatment.

As far as yeast is concerned, certain bacteria compete with yeast, and if you do not have enough of them, it causes problems. Heavy antibiotic use often causes yeast problems, for this reason. You will find yeast problems in anyone that is immune compromised, Cancer, AIDS patients etc.

There are several factors involved, but the immune system is always suspect when Crohn's is involved.  

Dan


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## dustydshook

I have oral thrush and some other kind of fungus that i wont even attempt to pronounce I have been on a whole cocktail of meds that haven't worked the latest was really harsh on my system and had to have liver enzyme tests while on it.  the next is IV meds.  I was told it is because we crohnies use so many immune system depressants that our bodies can't fight off a normal infection that others might be able to. Mine started after many antibiotics and six months on humira.  I then had to be taken off of all my crohns meds I have just started on pentasa again post surgery.  I have been in and out of hospital for infections since my surg in may so I haven't been back to the IDS to see what the next step is.  Sometimes it is so bad ifeel like i have a hair ball in my throat.


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## Keona

HAHA dustydshook... I know what you mean about the hairball...only I kept thinking I had a hair at the back the entire time I had it.  I have a dog that sheds like a mink so it seemed logical.  This time around I dont feel it everyday but my mouth does fall apart.   The difference is though, I havent been on any antibiotics or immune-suppressants yet.  My doc is hesitant right now.

Thanks D Bergy, that is a good way to explain it to me...makes sense.  I am on a high dose of omeprazole and I read somewhere that stomach acid helps to keep the yeast at bay.. low acid production can increase amount of candida.  I mentioned it to my doctor but she didnt think that was the entire cause but it likely exasperates it.

Dustydshook.... you do yoga!  Cool.


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## Dexky

Hey Wendy, I haven't seen it mentioned but one of the suggestions I saw when googling oral thrush was to switch from alcohol based mouthwash to hydrogen peroxide based.  Apparently the hp acts as both an anti-fungal and a healing agent.


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## Keona

Hi Dexky,

Thanks, I will try the peroxide.  I dont usually use mouthwash as I generally stick to toothpaste and floss.  I will give it a try though... thanks for letting me know.

Wendy


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## D Bergy

Good suggestion Dexy,
Hydrogen peroxide may help with the yeast, as it is an oxidizer, and yeast is susceptible to oxidizing substances.

There is also a mouth wash which has Chlorine Dioxide as an active ingredient, which is the same chemical I use internally to oxidize pathogens.  Chlorine Dioxide is also an oxidizer, but I do not know which brand of mouthwash has this ingredient.  

Dan


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## Keona

Well, now that I have the name, I can go look for it.  Just glad that all the mouthwashes are all in the same section 
I will let you know what it is when I find it.


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## Dexky

Hey Wendy, I was in Wal-mart today and just for curiosity I looked for a hp based mouthwash.  I found several that had hp but still had alcohol as the main ingredient.  The only one I saw w/o alcohol was Peroxyl by Colgate.  It is actually advertised as a healing agent for mouth sores.


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## Keona

Perfect!   :thumleft:    Thanks Dexky!  I also get mouth sores so this could be good for when I get them.. I appreciate you looking for me!
:biggrin:

Wendy


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## dreamintwilight

Tom's of Maine has alcohol-free mouthwash. It is normally found in organic/health food stores. I'm not sure if it has hp in any of them (there are several different kinds), but they are at least alcohol-free.


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## Keona

I dont know if I have ever heard of that brand before.  I will check to see if they have it and see if it has hp in it.  Thanks Marisa.  Hope your move is going well


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## Keona

Found out why I have thrush.  Small Intestine Bacterial overgrowth...caused by obstruction.

good to know....
steroids will make it worse and remicade can make the strictures worse.  They are going to bump me up on the MRI list.


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## Dexky

You think the repeated thrush has all been caused by this obstruction?  I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere else Wendy, but how did you get the dx for the obstruction?


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## Keona

because I didnt have a bowel movement for 11 days and it started right before that.  An obstruction /partial can become unobstructed itself.  I had an MRI not long ago and I have 2 strictures in my lower bowel.  Its not a diagnosis but probable cause.  I am now back up to 10 days without bowel movement and the pain has increased in my pelvic area and near my belly button.  I dont have thrush as I have been taking Nystatin 4 times a day.  My doctor thinks the thrush is caused by partial/obstruction.


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## Dexky

Did the other times with thrush coincide with constipation?



> I wonder about this - if theyre connected. The things that confuses me is how can I have Crohns?? Crohn's is an overreactive autoimmune system. Thrush thrives in a compromised autoimmune system....


Does this latest revelation help explain this apparent contradiction?  I'm just curious as to your thoughts about it.


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## Keona

I have basically been constipated since my MRI that was June 8th.  I go every now and then but either ribbon like or diareaah but very little (except once).  I havent really been eating - it hurts to eat and I dont really feel like it but I do drink copious amounts of liquids...very thirsty...and craving sugar (in a major way).

What I understood was that the immune system is over-reacting but fighting off a different bacteria allowing the candida to thrive/overgrow.  The candida and other bacteria keep each other in check but because the other is killed off, the candida overgrows...causing oral thrush/systemic thrush... acute infection.  It is a compromised autoimmune system.

Yes, it explains but I have more questions the more I think about it.


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## wendy

hi 
the best thing that i have found for thrush is to take Cranberry tablets they are in any health food shop or maybe ur local supermarket,


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## morbyrne

I developed thrush as well. Md prescribed Mycelex 10 mg lozenges. It worked. hope you get relief soon


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## Dexky

Keona said:


> I do drink copious amounts of liquids...very thirsty...and craving sugar (in a major way).


Wendy, have you been tested for diabetes?  Can the candida cause the body to crave sugar?


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## Keona

Hi Mark, I dont have diabetes.  I was tested a few years ago and yes..the Candida causes you to crave the sugar.  It thrives on sugar.  My medication causes me to drink a lot of liquids.  It started when my medication started/a side-effect.  At least it is a good side-effect compared to other meds.


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## Dexky

Hey Wendy, I just looked up GERD.  I hadn't noticed that and I guess that that would have an obvious connection to the thrush as well...duh.  As Dusty has told me on a few occasions, I suffer from "domestic deafness".


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## dreamintwilight

Hey Wendy! Glad to hear you may have an explanation for your constant thrush, though not happy to hear you've been having constipation problems that may be an obstruction. How did your docs finally decide you had an obstruction (I mean, obviously you are since you haven't been able to pass any normal BMs)? I mean...it's about tim, but sheesh. Couldn't they have come to that conclusion the first time you told them you hadn't been able to go to the bathroom for over a week?? Silly doctors 

Hope you get your next MRI very soon! What else are they doing for you in the meantime, anything?


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## wispy_moon

I have had thrush for going on 3 weeks now, a staph infection in my left breast for a month, I am on round 3 of antibiotics for the staph and my second bottle of nystatin, but this time it's a concoction called magic mouthwash. It has nystatin, lidocaine, benedryl, and maalox. I'm newly dx with crohn's (3 months), I'm on 20mg prednisone, 9mg budesonide, and 50mg azathioprine and still get abdominal cramping. I'm also down to 1bm every 5 days but it's not considered constipation... Don't ask me. I have outrageous hemorrhoids that the surgeon said he would remove if I didn't have crohn's but since I do, I have to just sick it up. Is all of this normal? will I have thrush forever? lol


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## Susan2

This Wiki site has lots of ideas on natural ways of treating oral (and other types of) thrush. You could work your way through them. :eek2:


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## Jenny06xx

I also have oral thrush again !!
On pred 40 mg reducing 10 mg per week 
I've got nystan ready mixed cherry flavour .

Oral thrush is bloody awful my mouth is so sore it feels like everything has salt in it or it's spicy lol
Oh well at least that will stop me eating so much on steroids lmao 
Jen xx


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