Another thing to avoid?

[hugh]

So you're doing everything you can to re-establish good gut flora, diet, supplements, probiotics?

Have you thought about soap? I'm told it's in some toothpastes too

I don't know about you all (y'all?) but since people with crohns have been demonstrated to have abnormal gut bacteria, i find it disturbing to think of how much poison i'm being feed from every direction......

"Antibacterial cleansers suppress the immune system. The body’s ability to protect itself from offending organisms is in part predicated upon maintaining a balanced microbiome with plenty of health-promoting good bacteria from probiotics.
In order for our GI tract to protect us from pathogenic organisms and remain healthy and strong itself, it must ideally contain about 85 percent good bacteria. Unfortunately when you use an antibacterial cleanser, you’re killing good and bad bacteria. This puts you at risk for a leaky gut.
When you kill the good bacteria you have weakened your immune system and put your GI tract at risk – the exact opposite of what we need to do."

"The reality is that all these germ-killing products may end up leaving us even more vulnerable to infection, says a Tufts University microbiologist. Similar to the concerns over using antibiotics too much, the worry is that overuse and misuse of these antibacterial products will kill off good bacteria and weak bacteria, leaving only the strongest and most resistant bacteria behind." "Triclosan, by killing normal bacteria, creates an environment where mutated bacteria that are resistant to triclosan are more likely to survive and reproduce."
http://www.healthnowmedical.com/blog/2011/01/26/antibacterials-and-leaky-gut/

"for chronically sick patients (those with asthma and diabetes, for example), antibiotic soaps were actually associated with increases in the frequencies of fevers, runny noses and coughs"

"The really intriguing news–a kind of breakthrough–is that the main compounds in antibiotic wipes, creams and soaps, triclosan and/or the chemically similar triclocarban, have also been sprinkled around our lives more generally. A recent study notes that triclosan is now used to impregnate surfaces and has been added to chopping boards, refrigerators, plastic lunchboxes, mattresses as well as being used in industrial settings, such as food processing plants where walls, floors and exposed machinery have all been treated with triclosan in order to reduce microbial load."
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...and-soaps-may-be-making-you-and-society-sick/

 

[Beach]

Well I haven't gone so far as to take on comedian George Carlin's ideas on germs, with little hand washing etc. :ybiggrin:

"George Carlin - fear of germs"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgxDdsiXf8U

But a few months ago i began feeling better, and one of the changes I made that might have contributed to this was swapping out the antibiotic soap hand soap for some soap sold at the health shop I frequent. I'd be greatly surprised if this is what helped me the most! I made several changes to hopfully improve my gut flora, such as avoiding chlorine, improved diet, but everything counts.

 

[David]

Yep, no antibiotic or anti-fungal anything for me.

 

[Amy2]

I've always avoided hand sanitizers, but they're everywhere so I'm sure I'm being affected anyway.

 

[nogutsnoglory]

I am on immunosuppressive medication so I think it is important to use hand sanitizer when there isn't access to regular soap and hot water. Otherwise I agree it should be limited.

 

[UnXmas]

Yep, no antibiotic or anti-fungal anything for me.

What do you do when you have an infection that needs antibiotics? Or don't you ever have any? Or did you mean antibacterial rather than antibiotic? Once after a surgery I got an infection and ended up with a really high fever, I was hallucinating and couldn't keep any food down. I was prescribed a course of antibiotics and the infection disappeared within days, the only side effect was a badly upset stomach. If I hadn't had antibiotics I would have been extremely ill very quickly, and I don't think there was any alternative way to treat the infection.

 

[Basmah]

As someone who works with kids, I have to have hand sanitizer on hand - lets be honest, kids are more likely to negatively impact my immune system. I try to limit my use though, and always wash my hands when there is a sink nearby.

 

[hugh]

As someone who works with kids, I have to have hand sanitizer on hand - lets be honest, kids are more likely to negatively impact my immune system.

In reality ., kids are more likely to challenge and stimulate your immune system - it's a half full/half empty kind of thing.

"While commensal bacteria live happily and cozily in our intestines, we also benefit greatly from them — they help us with efficient digestion, absorption, synthesis and storage of nutrients. But this is not all. Small experimental mammals that are raised to be completely commensal bacteria-free don’t just have problems with digestion. They also have poorly developed immune systems, with fewer white blood cells and fewer antibodies circulating in the blood, making them highly susceptible to infection by certain bacteria, viruses and parasites. Our gut bacteria also help train our immune system to react in the way it needs to when a real infection comes."
https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/sitnflash_wp/2010/04/issue68/

All i'm saying is that washing the antibacterial soap OFF is probably more beneficial than using it.
Washing off the sanitiser is pretty important because that stuff can case damage..

 

[hugh]

What do you do when you have an infection that needs antibiotics?

I'd be dead without antibiotics, but i still only take them if it is necessary, and i wish they weren't being pissed away in animal feed or for viruses or to get people out of the doctors office, but that's really different from evil corporations scaring people into poisoning themselves and the environment with a cooked up load of crap (information and product).
Antibacterial soaps have never been shown to have any advantage over normal good hygiene in a domestic environment, while carrying some serious risks

 

[Hope345]

This is a tough one.
there are bad bacteria on counters, bathrooms, cutting boards, dishwashers, swimming pools, etc...
there has to be a balance. We cant live in filth but we need to help our gut flora stay healthy. That is the key here for sure.

How do we get our gut balanced? Bad bacteria are taking over and the good bacteria are not strong enough to fight them off. This is my opinion of what is happening in the inflammation process. I know it is far more technical than that description.

The new way of handling this is to build up your immune system. This is the exact opposite of what the immune suppressants do. However they may play an important role for a while. I was scared when we put our daughter on all of the immune suppressants: Mercaptopurine, Remicade, Imuran, Prednisone However, that maybe what kept it from getting worse in the first stages of treatment.

Now that none of it is working, we are moving to the next stage of treating her with probiotics and then possibly the FMT to restore her gut flora back to a state that will help her. It has been very successful in many. The correct antibiotics have also been helpful in treating some of the worse cases of Crohns: anti M.A.P. treatment.

I hope this way of treating (building up immune system) IBD becomes the standard and most effective. Side effects are minimal and this is the least expensive as well.

Some may argue about the side effects because long term we do not know yet. But we do know that the immunosupressants are not always good to use long term.

I hope others tell about their way of restoring their gut bacteria: My opinion is that is the key!!!