Ask Leafy... Marijuana... what do you want to know????

[Leafy2]

ask a question and I will be able to answer it,

there is alot of mis information regarding this,

and I will give you the answer at point blank range.



I will answer most questions, within reason.


If you want to grow or anything I will refer you to a secure website where I can tell you anything and everything, but I will not put it on here as I do not wish to implicate the owner of the board for hosting such information.

I was a grower for a while, and I also use THC as my medicine,

I have not needed any prescription medication since I started a year ago.


I will answer simple questions such as what is the difference betweem Sativa, Indica, and ruderalis, and what is the medical properties of each, to oil extractions for vapourisation.

If you live in Canada, the UK, Europe, or California there are more than sufficent resources to help you in your quest for relief.


Do not get me confused, I am not entirely for recreational purposes, and strongly feel that it should be available on prescription.

I can also answer questions regarding marinol, and sativex.


BREAKING NEWS, the Australian government is Currently working on a hush hush project involving THC, apparently Sea Urchin Venom removes the psychoactive effect, but the medical properties remain, it still remains unclear though to will it still effect predisposed people to mental illness.

 

[Leafy2]

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7009

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6629

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1437679.htm


Even though most people will look at me and go "bullshit"

if it works it works,

and the risk of mental illness is quite low, and the people who do develop mental problems via a mis-diagnosis for psychosis are unaware that it is not permanent...

Toxic-psychosis, is the most mis-diagnosed problem and is common in heavy users, not medical users who stick within the normal range.

a heavy user is someone who has 6 standard joints a day, equal to 6gs of pot a day.

a medical user will most likely go through .5g's a day.

I have been using this for more than a year, I work a good job, have had regular head checks, and my doctor still cant work out why im getting better.

I havent told him for good reason.

Toxic Psychosis will usually go away through a detox, and if you do suffer from this you are having too much or you are too sensitive, usually its either people who have too much in one go and do not have a tolerance, or people who have taken way too much over a prolonged time, and have reached a toxic spike.

Keep in mind you might not technically OD and die, but you can overdo it still.


For smoking I reccomend 3 bongs a night.... not 10, not 100, just 3.... you dont need much.


I will keep adding more and more links so you basically can have a library of links for research, I am NOT FORCING THIS ON ANYONE.

THIS IS CLEARLY YOUR DECISION.

if you wish to proceed I will assist you the best I can.

 

[Leafy2]

Now I can see there is no one interested in this topic I wont continue.


people seem pretty closed minded on here, from my position I can see an increased risk of cancer when taking the prescribed drugs which may not even guarantee any effect.

If anyone does change their mind, PM me.

and here is the link on Colon Cancer and THC,

this is the main reason for why I take it, my grandfather got cancer from this, I dont care what the doctors say, there is an increased risk of cancer with crohn's and the med's can tip the scales as they did to him.

as for opiates and other pain killers which are available.... really they do just as much damage if not more to you mentally. Addiction?, Depression?

Next thing you know your taking 30 pills in the morning and having implants and injections?

is it really worth all the side effects and still having the risk of cancer?

take 1 spray, symptoms gone, and no risk of cancer unless you smoke it which has been linked to testicular cancer not lung cancer.

here are some reports about Sativex.... with good results for other chronic illnesses.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/142359.php MS patients Clinical Trial.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/140201.php The Results from the MS trial.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/health/Doctors-treat-MS-sufferers-with.3739084.jp

NEW (28/03/09) http://www.mpbn.net/News/MaineNews/tabid/181/ctl/ViewItem/mid/1858/ItemId/9811/Default.aspx
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20281248&BRD=1304&PAG=461&dept_id=180485&rfi=6
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20090315/NEWS01/903150599

(SPECIFICALLY FOR CROHN'S) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/11/11/health/main69902.shtml http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-06-06-marijuana-cover_x.htm?csp=34



Now I will even post a link to two movies for ALL of you to watch....


alot of you still have the old mindset that if you smoke a joint you will walk out and murder someone.

The Union Movie http://www.documentarywire.com/the-business-behind-getting-high

and SUPER HIGH ME, http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&hl=en-GB&v=Qck2Znn-ugo


I would like to point out that people that some people who run marijuana dispenseries in california are trained in medicine, have studied at uni, and are not ignorant drug dealers

now if you watch these, I 100% guarantee you will change your opinion of this topic.

If you dont watch them, well dont argue or insult others who choose this.

 

[Guest]

Leafy.. no-one here is closed-minded, or thinks that smoking a joint turns us into murderers, nor has anyone argued or insulted you!

everyone has their own choice as to whether they want to explore this therapy, or even go as far as to try it. it's commendable that you want to share and help others, if you believe you have found something to help your own symptoms, but to push it so hard, and then act insulted because nobody has shown interest, is a little bit offensive.

we're not ignorant - i for one know very well how MJ can be beneficial for MS in particular - so please don't assume we are.

this forum has a fantastic atmosphere.. we all support and respect each other, no matter what our personal differences are, and we welcome & embrace new members, so please, stay around, but maybe reduce the MJ push a little?

 

[Parkles]

Leafy

Glad you're here to talk about this. THC has been an important part of my therapy, and I'm glad to see someone else aware of the benefits.

No questions right now, but I have some, it's nice to know I have someone to turn to!

J

 

[katiesue1506]

Thanks Ding.

 

[Leafy2]

I didnt mean to offend anyone, and I was not attacking anyone personally.

as I said its your decision, and if you choose to try it out.


No it doesnt mask the symptoms, and recently a crohn's patient with the help of NORML and an MS patient had another state in the US put it on prescription for that state.

E Cameron I currently am breaking the law to get what I need, and my living quality of life has improved greatly.

My ulcers are down to a minimum, I only need to goto the bathroom about 3-4 times a day, less than I used to.

I dont have acid diorreah, and no cramps. My doctor is unaware of my THC treatment, and is slightly confused to why I am getting better since I am refusing all other medication.

E Cameron if you want some help PM me and tell me your details such as what state you live in and what country.

Most GP's or GI's wont comment on marijuana even if they personally think it might help. Basically if its an illegal drug they wont give you a medical opinion as it would incite breaking the law which puts them at a legal risk.

Your best means of getting information would be contacting the Green Cross, and NORML.

They will refer you to doctors and people within your state if it is available.

if not able to help you like that they can give you as much information as possible.



Like I have said all drugs have their side effects, and comparing THC's mental risks to some of the crohn's meds and anti-depressants,

THE RISKS ARE LOWER.

plus THC is an anticarcinogen, compared to crohn's meds which the side effects are clear to increase the risk of cancer

 

[Leafy2]

sorry dingbat, but when you find something that WORKS, you want to stand at the top of a building and scream it.


Sorry if I semt pushy, but imagine seeing others suffering with your problem? and that you know something that may help. No one deserves to live with this embarasing, humiliating, and painful illness.

all im trying to do is grab peoples attention, "LOOK WHAT IVE FOUND"

I dont mean to upset people, but it upsets me when people are stubborn and refer to it as "ew... Ill stick to my diamorphine at least thats prescribed"

sometimes I feel like im banging my head against the wall because when you want to help others get better, they are more likely to beleive something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&hl=en-GB&v=bWgyZtL1ANY&feature=related

or this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhjwUR2SeAE&feature=related


instead of watching an MS patient shaking all over, have a puff of a pipe... and stop shaking, get up and walk around like a normal person?


dingbat when you said "I would never take it in any shape or form" and I read about your discomfort I had the impression that you had the old mindset, its in my best intrest to help and educate others so they can get better.

I didnt mean to attack you or offend you, please dont take it that way.

as I said when you find something that can help others, you want to scream at a rooftop and tell the world.

no one deserves to live with this.

 

[Leafy2]

CANADA!

you lucky BASTARD! I wish I was there!

Contact the green cross, and google up "the prince of pot''

apply for a permit, and you shall grow!


for plants for medical use, you DO NOT want cannabis Sativa, you want a 100% indica plant. Sativa is highly psychoactive and is the 'head high' which is NOT what I consider medication. Sativa is known to cause paranoia.

Indica is a medical grade plant, I highly reccomend afghan 1# from sensi seeds.

http://www.thegreencross.org/ver3/ if they cant help you contact these people http://www.marijuanaparty.ca/index.en.php3

 

[Leafy2]

Keep in mind that some steroidal medications build up a tolerance to work, and that some medications for crohn's might have long term side effects that might be undesireable.

also keep in mind current crohn's medications do not prevent you from needing surgery from my understanding.

Ive done the research, and from what I have read the medications for crohn's have nasty effects.

and since I was against becoming sterile, bagged, and morbidly obese I took this action.


Its worth experimenting it for yourself, dont smoke it as smoking is BAD for crohn's, I would reccomend a vapouriser from 'cheating the hangman'

google that and since its from Australia you will save money from the currency exchange.



Im also glad its becoming accepted, and more and more US states are accepting it because its been proven to work. Unfortunately where I live its not so accepted and still considered to be worse than other drugs... which I find quite strange... at a party some kid offered me crystal meth I flipped out at him and told him no, and said ill stick to pot... he looked at me and said "pot is really bad for you man...!!!"

Australia is a backwards place.... but we still have the Mardi Grass in nimbin!

 

[Leafy2]

http://www.cheatingthehangman.net.au/about.html

 

[daisy_dueller]

Hey leafy...have you read the other MJ post in it's entirety? There certainly are a few of us on here that do use it, and it works. There are others that have tried it, and it does't work, and there are others that choose to abstain. The thing with Crohn's...things affect everyone differently. I am so glad you found something that helps you into remission...it's such a great feeling. Just keep in mind that it doens't work for everyone

 

[Leafy2]

No I havent read it, actually cant find it.

would love to see someone post a link as the more knowledge the better.

 

[Leafy2]

ok BAD news....


im getting phantom bruises....

2 days without pot, my foot has a bruise on it, it started out red, and now its aching my whole leg, my arm is getting it too.

jesus christ im getting worse in 2 days........


I havent eaten within those two days, and the acid crap is starting again........ very slowly.

ive got sharp pains on the lower left, and spasams..... this isnt pretty but tolerable.

When I went without for a month... I nearly wound up in the emergency room.

 

[Leafy2]

Hey leafy...have you read the other MJ post in it's entirety? There certainly are a few of us on here that do use it, and it works. There are others that have tried it, and it does't work, and there are others that choose to abstain. The thing with Crohn's...things affect everyone differently. I am so glad you found something that helps you into remission...it's such a great feeling. Just keep in mind that it doens't work for everyone

thats cool with me,

everyone is effected by MJ differently.

and everyone has a different body, for those who tried and failed I applaud you for making an effort.

but! sometimes it needs a build up in some people as myself, it took me about a month or so for it to kick in and start working, I think it has to do with the percentage of THC in your blood. A cumulative effect.


the bonus part is that THC stays in your system so long, you dont need to keep taking stacks of it everyday.


but then again everyone is different, and has their own views they are entitled to,
but if someone comes on and tells me im a junkie.... that my friends will piss me off.

 

[mommy1st]

but then again everyone is different, and has their own views they are entitled to,
but if someone comes on and tells me im a junkie.... that my friends will piss me off.

Yes everyone is entitled to their own views and I could see how you would be offended if someone would call you a junkie, but then you have to also see how calling people close minded would also be offensive.

 

[Leafy2]

well people who do not accept medical and scientific data as proof deserve that title of closed minded.

But if you choose not to take it because of the stigma, legality and being labelled a 'user' or you have a pre-underlying mental illness thats understandable people have their reasons. right now for me its 3am in the morning nearly, I havent had any for 3 days, and im letting the toilet have it non stop!

Im not directly saying everyone who chooses not to smoke it is closed minded, but those who do not consider it to be medicine or to have medical properties and think its the plant of satan.

I think we have to settle this, without throwing used toilet paper around.


What is YOUR opinion on this, do you accept it but not choose to take it due to the stigma or due to the fact its illegal and cannot afford the risk?

Or do yo simply think its evil?

Im calling for an honest opinion and Im open to all ideas or beleifs on the matter.

It might not work for everyone, but it sure as works for me, and my GI is impressed with my condition even though he is unaware of my use of it.
I do not take any other medication than this.

 

[Leafy2]

agreed

E Cameron I accept your point of view and I welcome an open debate, without personal attacks.

Yes alot of people misuse it to a point where they do render themselves homeless, and I agree on that. Then again it also can be argued that some people also drink to the point where they are also homeless.

I do understand that people have problems with drugs, wether they be illegal or legal.

Smoking is bad, wether it be cannabis or tobacco, both are bad for crohn's


Vapourising is the only safe method.


The level of addiction to cannabis has been rated below caffine by the DEA.

Cannabis has high levels of 'free radicals' which if smoked can be harmful to crohn's disease and even cause testicular cancer.


I am well aware of 'the dangers' and I have weighed them both physically and mentally in comparison to anti-depressants, and the other medications available.

Still in my own opinion, and many doctors medical opinions in California, THC is less harmful unless you are pre-disposed to a mental illness, which most people cannot tell if they are or are not until its too late in some cases.

The good thing though is that even though it may trigger a mental condition, it is now found to be temporary also refered to as toxic psychosis.

Toxic Psychosis only effects those who are either heavy users upt to 6g's a day or people with problems regulating dopeamine within their brain which causes a psychotic break.

Even in comparison to the damage caused by THC mentally if you have a pre-disposed mental illness such as depression, it still does less damage than anti-depressants do in the long run.

Prozac has been pulled off the shelves in the UK according to the Australian media due to suicides, self harm, and psychotic breaks which do not end. Due to the fact the body has become dependant on the anti-depressant which stimulates dopamine production which causes damage to the brain in a similar manner to that of MDMA where the brain produces less and less dopeamine the longer the course of the drug is taken which then causes mental unstability and dependancy on the drug itself forever.

The difference between anti-depressants and THC is that THC's damage is temporary in the majority of cases who develop mental illnesses so long as they detox.


As I said I am open to a debate so long as its not finger pointing or personal attacks.


By closed minded I am not calling people stupid or arrogant, do not confuse the subject, by closed minded I do not mean to say the person is not open to the topic due to the stigma attached, or personal preferance by closed minded as I have said before is someone who does not accept material fact or evidence.

Its like saying "the sky is blue, when another person says its red but the person refuses to look up!" that is an example of closed minded thinking.

But if someone directly attacks the issue saying 'it renders all people who use it homeless' I can merely point out the person who is in charge of CNN is a heavy smoker of pot, and loud and proud about it... he doesnt look homeless or stupid to me neither does Arnold the Govenator, another proud smoker.

Does Arnie look mentally derranged? sure looked scary on roids though!

 

[Leafy2]

Im glad I could shed some light, yes pot is on prescription in Canada, and you might need a referal to a specialst for a second opinion.

Crohn's disease is classified under the same severity as MS.

Your doctor can not hold a bias opinion regarding your choice of medicine, even though he may hold personal opinions against it.

Crohn's disease is also a major player in the new legislation being passed in several US states for medical use of it, the evidence put forward in regards to it has stunned many political people, and MANY people use it and swear by the results.

Even washington is considering it!

I am though against oral usage as the potency changes dramatically, and the chemical compound changes.

I am only for a breathing apparatus or in vitro as it does not change the chemical compouds structure or potency.

Sativex has MANY issues which need to be resolved, first thing they need to do is change the delivery method, from oral to inhalation, if you want to avoid using it orally, I would spray it on a herb material then proceed to vapourise.

It will taste terrible I hate to say.


But if you want to avoid surgery, this will prevent the need if you act early, and if you wish to get a license to grow as said before 100% indica (afghan 1# strain) only NOT sativa, sativa is only good for getting high.


If you want to try my method of treatment LH-glutamine and Taurine, both in pure powder forms with the use of THC at night.

powders mixed with fruit juice eg pineapple, in the morning, and THC at night.




AVOID MARINOL.... this HAS NO MEDICAL PROPERTIES BESIDES PAIN RELEIF

 

[mommy1st]

But if you want to avoid surgery, this will prevent the need if you act early, and if you wish to get a license to grow as said before 100% indica (afghan 1# strain) only NOT sativa, sativa is only good for getting high.

Again, you have to remember that just because it works for some people it doesn't work for everyone and it does not guarantee that it will prevent the need for surgery.

 

[Guest]

i think a statement needs to be made here.....

it is fair enough for a member/Crohn's sufferer to claim that he truly believes the use of MJ has helped his symptoms.

however, it has to be also noted that there is no concrete evidence that MJ use, in whatever form, can prevent surgery for Crohn's, nor cancer, nor can it be proven that Crohn's will be cured or put into remission indefinitely.

the forum has to be very careful regarding medicinal or alternative treatment claims, so please keep this in mind, posters and readers.

thank you.

 

[Leafy2]

Dingbat, I suggest you read this medial report on colorectal carcinoma and other cancers regarding THC treatment in the prevention of cancer instead of bad mouthing this topic.

THC has been scientifically proven to work. I do agree that everyone needs to do their own research regarding herbal alternatives.

but here is the medical report regarding THC and cancer http://www.biochemsoctrans.org/bst/033/0712/0330712.pdf

There is a table at the bottom showing the isolation of the cannabinoids which target specific cancers and reduce their size or slow down their speed in spreading or even inhibit their growth indefinately.

I respect your anti-pot view, but I suggest if you are going to make an arguement to disprove this get some university reports showing 'it cannot be use for crohn's disease as it has no medicinal value'

No it will not put crohn's into remission, or cure crohn's! I never said that

it can only be used to treat it.


I ask you this, why are so many states in the US now pushing for medical use of it, specifically for crohn's disease and MS? If it didnt work then why is the legislation passing? The government bodies would not approve of this if it had no positive effect on people with crohn's disease or MS.

No I agree there is no concrete evidence that it will prevent surgery, but! if it can treat the problems such as the inflammation, fissures, ulcers, and prevent blockages, within about 10 years I guarantee you it will be proven.

If you stop the things which make you need surgery why would you need surgery then?

im currently in day 4 without pot, and Im in screaming agony, I havent eaten for 4 days now, and I can definately feel the difference in my body, spasams, and extreme pain.

As I have said my doctor has noted that my inflammation is down, and even though I am still suffering from crohns I am not in remission. My doctor has noted this, and is puzzled by this fact.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/28584.php here is a medical website which notes a UK scientific report regarding the treatment of crohn's disease


I made this topic to share my knowledge with scientific data, if you want to make an arguement I suggest you get evidence to back it up instead of scaring people.


This is not a direct attack against you, this is a fair response to what you have posted.


OH LOOK I JUST FOUND A BBC REPORT.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4728605.stm can you please tell me this is fake????

 

[Leafy2]

now I will address the fact of mental risks, if you take anti-depressants and prendisolone you are putting yourself at just as much risk as smoking pot as you build up a tolerance, and it screws with your head, if you choose to argue this I suggest you look around on the forum and read peoples responses from taking prend. Also look up the Prozac generation, look at the damage done by anti-depressants!

I have already put forward the arguement in regards to anti-depressants, you can even check that against media reports and the dangers of anti-depressants.
The damage done by them is permanent.

here is an entire explanation of cannabis, the dangers and information regarding its history.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/cannabis/index.htm


I also warned that 'I WOULD GIVE THE ANSWER AT POINT BLANK RANGE' so excuse me if I sound rather pissed off or angry, im not, but when someone states a generalised myth and states it as fact, I dont mess around with a response,.

 

[Leafy2]

now if you dont know already prozac is prescribed to crohn's patients, and it is NOT safe, there have been many people who have resulted in having psychotic episodes and psychosis from this drug.

now considering this your probably reading this thinking "hang on doesnt marijuana cause psychosis?" no it does not cause the exact same type of psychosis, it causes toxic psychosis in people who are drug abusers or people who are predisposed.

The Psychosis which is induced by cannabis is not permanent, it will go away once the THC is out of the system.

Prozac on the other hand works completely differently, but is similar to how toxic psychosis occurs but not quite the same. This psychosis is permanent, requiring medication for it for the rest of your natural life.

Basically as I have said before there is only a minimal amount of people predisposed to getting toxic psychosis, because no one would be really capable of smoking 10g's on a nightly or daily basis, unless your a complete junkie.

People who have problems regulating dopamine and serotonin in the brain are the ones who might have issues with prozac or cannabis in general.

But a main concern is that prozac does something worse than that, it damages the brain so basically it cannot regulate dopamine and serotonin properly, therefore you become one of these people who in fact will most likely experience a psychotic episode.

as I have said before Prozac works exactly like MDMA, it over stimilates the dopamine, serotonin receptors and neurotransmitters in the brain causing a flood or an explosion of dopamine and serotonin in the brain... this is not healthy.

here is a legal website in regards to this

here is a quote from the website

"Suicidal obsessions or violent thoughts are a large problem for many Prozac users. The irony of this is that the drug that is supposed to prevent depression and suicide could very well be causing it. Dr. David Healy of the Department of Psychological Medicine at the University of Wales in the UK directly attributes Prozac and other selective serotonin re- uptake inhibitors to suicide. He states that in his opinion, at least 250,000 people have attempted suicide worldwide because of Prozac alone and he feels that at least 25,000 have succeeded. "


the psychosis thing may not be a major issue just as it is for cannabis, but the suicidal problem is a major concern. People who smoke weed or vape it DO NOT BECOME SUICIDAL, if they have a pre-existing illness, its not a good idea for them to smoke it, its a bad combo.

I have known two people who have developed serious toxic psychotic events because they smoked to the point where you thought they were dead.

and guess what, both of them had bi polar, THE WORST COMBINATION.

its like being on the toilet with diorreah and taking laxitives.... bad decision.

 

[Leafy2]

SIDE EFFECTS FROM THE DRUGS!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfasalazine#Side_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciprofloxacin#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metronidazole#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalizumab#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciclosporin#Adverse_Effects_and_Interactions (look at interactions)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methotrexate#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/[wiki2="Adalimumab"]Adalimumab[/wiki2]#Safety
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercaptopurine#Precautions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/[wiki2="Azathioprine"]Azathioprine[/wiki2]#Long_term_side_effects


NOTE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesalazine#Side_effects

this drug has the same side effects as symptoms of crohn's.... what a waste of time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remicade#Safety

OOO prozac... this looks fun.... remember the DANGERS.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/133784.php

looks to me that this has similar properties to THC... except one difference... THC wont make you suicidal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prozac#Adverse_effects


Hope you all enjoy a read people......

 

[Guest]

Dingbat, I suggest you read this medial report on colorectal carcinoma and other cancers regarding THC treatment in the prevention of cancer instead of bad mouthing this topic.

I respect your anti-pot view, but I suggest if you are going to make an arguement to disprove this get some university reports showing 'it cannot be use for crohn's disease as it has no medicinal value'

I made this topic to share my knowledge with scientific data, if you want to make an arguement I suggest you get evidence to back it up instead of scaring people.

i would like to know why you have taken such an aggressive stance to my post!

where have i bad-mouthed THC?

where have i posted an anti-pot view?

where have i sought an argument?

where have i scared anyone?

i am not going to get into an argument with you. but if i did, it would not be about the topic you are so heavily pushing.. it would be about your attitude.

 

[jed]

just to clarify, these are possible side effects of each drug. possible... there are also a huge amount of good they can each do.

there are many people that disappear from these forums because one of these drugs gets them close to total remission, and they dont need to come here so often to vent or search for other means to help them.

your personal favourite may do this for some members as well, and i hope it can do that for you.

SIDE EFFECTS FROM THE DRUGS!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfasalazine#Side_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciprofloxacin#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metronidazole#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/[wiki2="Natalizumab"]Natalizumab[/wiki2]#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciclosporin#Adverse_Effects_and_Interactions (look at interactions)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/[wiki2="Methotrexate"]Methotrexate[/wiki2]#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adalimumab#Safety
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercaptopurine#Precautions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azathioprine#Long_term_side_effects


NOTE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesalazine#Side_effects

this drug has the same side effects as symptoms of crohn's.... what a waste of time.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remicade#Safety

OOO prozac... this looks fun.... remember the DANGERS.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/133784.php

looks to me that this has similar properties to THC... except one difference... THC wont make you suicidal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prozac#Adverse_effects


Hope you all enjoy a read people......

and dont get me wrong, i smoked a rainforest full of weed when i was younger, took more than enough acid to strip the paint off jet plane, and had more speed that all 4 fast and furious movies PLUS days of thunder AND taledego nights put together. i have no problems with drugs at all. people can do what they want.

but even 18 year olds that come in here can still be very young people, and we need to be carefull how we word things. they've got enough scarey shit going on learning about this arse-head disease without reading (sometimes) terribly confronting threads.

(not that i'm a mod), but as far as i'm concerned i think its great to have as many alternate views on here as possible, maybe we just need to be careful of the way we need to go about posting them.


have you ever been prescribed any meds that you should be taking? or did the docs tell you "you have crohns" and not offer you meds or ask wwhy you didn;t want them?

 

[Leafy2]

yes my GI told me, and he is going to tell me how bad my condition is after the colonoscapy results have come in.

I have crohnes sores all over my legs chest, stomach and back which are filled with pus.

At first I thought they were acne, but then after his diagnosis, of my symptoms, and the sores, he said "its crohn's disase"

I currently have refused to take all of the prescription meds, and after researching them in detail and reading reports from those who use them I will not be taking them.

As said my grandfather did take medicine for his crohn's, and it gave him cancer... really I cant afford the risk.

my GP also was the first one to actually point out it could be a possibility back in 07 at the time I didnt give a crap.... now I do.

 

[Leafy2]

I quote you dingbat "however, it has to be also noted that there is no concrete evidence that MJ use, in whatever form, can prevent surgery for Crohn's, NOR CANCER, nor can it be proven that Crohn's will be cured or put into remission indefinitely.


if you have a problem dont read the topic. hell I have problems with people using colloidal silver, doesnt mean im going to go into a topic if it existed on here and have a go at them.

I am trying to isolate this subject to this topic and this topic alone.



all I have done is post scientific evidence to support my case.

if it works it works, and there are thousands of crohn's patients worldwide who swear by it.

If you think I may not have evidence to support my arguement pull me up and ask for it. I have boxes full of reports.

Yes I agree people need to be wary of 'new herbal or alternative' treatments......

then again this has been around since the time before Palestine and egypt, and we have enough information and scientific data these days to show the side effects.

Please refer to the Nixon Report for the dangers of cannabis, and have a good read of it.


If your mad at me for messaging you regarding sativex, all I was trying to do was help you, you live in the UK, I read how much suffering you were going through with the side effects and I thought "well, if shes suffering this much how much worse can it be?" I only had the best intentions.

 

[jed]

hey, and i'm sorry to hear about your grandfather, suckes when anyone is taken from us.

how long did he live with crohns for? which cancer did he end up with?

 

[Leafy2]

he got colorectal carcinoma, the key reason why I cant risk taking the legal meds.

He lived with it till he was 70, and I saw every minute of his suffering.


He had most of his intestine removed.

 

[danman]

Leafy, the only reason I didn't respond to your original thread post, is that it's all been said before on this forum.
Try using the search option and you'll see what I mean.

I'm with Jed on this one. In my youth, I used a lot of weed and it done nothing for me medically.

I get the feeling that your new to this disease, would I be right?

Your stand against taking medication is honorable, but I get the feeling that when you've been diagnosed for a few years, this stance will not be as easy to keep up.

When your bowels are as diseased as mine are now after 20 years of abuse, and your tail end and scrotum are riddled with fistulas to the point that your made infertile, like my case, You will try anything.

As Ding tried to point out to you in a polite way, no one of us has the exact same symptoms, and not all of us react to medications the same. Some meds work for some and not for others.

All medications have side effects. Including MJ.
That does not mean we should not take them. Including MJ

Like I said earlier, I used a lot of pot when I was younger, this time coincides with a time in my life (15-20 years ago) when the only med's we got were anti-inflammatories, Salazopyrin.
These were next to useless as a med for Crohn's, we now know that.

But this time also coincides with the period of my life, where I was in the most pain and suffering the worst flareups of Crohn's.
So, I suppose you could put me in the bracket of people, where MJ doesn't work as a med for Crohn's.

It's not the Holy Grail of medicine, you need to open your eyes to that.
Yes, it may help some people, but not all.

I just hope you won't have done serious harm to yourself in the meantime with your anti-medication stance.
And most of all, I hope that young, impressionable people reading this forum. don't get mislead (Yes, i said mislead) into thinking it is the best possible route to redemption.

 

[drew_wymore]

Leafy. I've skimmed this thread and wanted to comment. I do think Ding did summarize the stance on this subject pretty well. There are several of us who do use marijuana for medicinal purposes, myself include although I haven't used it in just over a year because despite my symptoms now they aren't as bad as they were a year ago and a little weed certainly did the trick.

I understand why you are all about talking about it, if it works for you then you want to let people know and that's totally cool, I don't think anyone here has a problem with that. As has been said though, we have plenty of young folks who are members and countless people who never register but read the posts here and we need to insulate them from treatments that in many places of the world are illegal for better or worse.

The current medicines available have their benefit along with their risk. As can be found in many posts people do worry about the risks of cancer and I'm sure we as a group are sympathetic to the fact that your grandfather passed due to cancer =( And that the medications may have played a role. Most of though, have to weigh the risk/benefit ratio for our own lives along with our current and expectations for our own quality of life.

I hope you continue to be a member and please don't think any of us are attacking you. The only time I've seen the members here attack anyone really is when someone spams things about treatments that seem like advertisements for the given treatment.

 

[Guest]

Leafy - if you are attempting to make me look like the bad guy, out to insult you or your chosen route of medication, not only are you wrong, but you will not succeed either.

you have my permission to post the pms i sent you in response to yours. my replies were friendly and polite. my comments on the forum to you have been polite and fair, to EVERYONE who may read this, not just you. i have even, on page 1 of this thread, said it is commendable of you to want to share your discoveries.

however, not just in my role of Moderator, but as a responsible adult and Crohn's sufferer of 30+ years, i feel it is imperative that treatment claims, when put down in writing for all to see, are put fairly and truthfully. MJ is not, as others have pointed out, the miracle treatment for Crohn's Disease. it may help alleviate symptoms. there may well be data out there to support this, but there is also data for many other claims too. desperate people can be impressionable, and it is our duty to take care of those people, not lead them into abandoning traditional meds or refusing surgery, just because we may have a personal opinion on a different avenue of help.

 

[Leafy2]

Ok I accept your point, but can you also accept mine.

what are the other claims that you might be able to help me on, if it suggests it doesnt work.


I would like to see if you have some data against some of the things I have said.

I want to make this clear Marijuana is a last resort, it was MY last resort its paid off big time!


Dingbat, I might have gotten my wires crossed with you, my initial impression from you was anti-pot in any form


now for anyone who is out there and desperate, and has tried the other medications and is not a high risk candidate for cancer, give it a shot, but if you are not a high risk canditate, and you have not have the prescription meds choose them first.

I still stick to my statement about prozac.

 

[Leafy2]

as for permanent damage, my GI has not seen any serious damage...... he thinks im getting better and is puzzled.


I understand it might not work for everyone, but if you have tried all the other drugs, and you are in ALOT of suffering its worth a shot.


I cant take the prescription meds as I have said before the risk of me getting cancer is too high.

 

[danman]

as for permanent damage, my GI has not seen any serious damage...... he thinks im getting better and is puzzled.

I understand it might not work for everyone, but if you have tried all the other drugs, and you are in ALOT of suffering its worth a shot.

I cant take the prescription meds as I have said before the risk of me getting cancer is too high.

Leafy,
how long have you been diagnosed?

I only ask this question, because it relates to how much damage has been caused.

My large bowel is strictured all along it's length because of the 20 years of flareups. Each flare causes new inflamation and when the flare passes, it leave a permanent scar on the wall of the bowel.

There will come a time when you will have to have meds, and believe me, you will be glad of them. I don't think you've reached that stage of the disease yet.

Has your doctor actually told you that you are at too high a risk of Cancer to take meds, or is this something you've surmised yourself?
This is the problem with the internet. It can be a great tool, but also, it can cause a lot of damage.

 

[Leafy2]

my doctors tell me I am a high candidate since both sides of my family contracted bowel cancer.

I have had this problem since I was around 16 maybe a bit younger or older give or take, but it never got to the point I am in now, so I went to the doctor and he did the blood tests, the crap tests, an ultrasound on my liver, asked my about my grandfather who had crohn's (which turned to bum cancer)

my father who also has an IBD, and I had a colonoscapy where the doctor took 8 samples told me I had crohn's and sent tests off.

I still dont even know why he had to take 8, does anyone actually know what they hell they cut out of me????


as for a diagnosis, I joined the forums the day after I was diagnosed looking anwers.

I already knew about marijuanas medical benefits due to the fact I was diagnosed with an IBD back in 2007 but couldnt get the colonoscapy done due to my situation in melbourne of being homeless after being discharged from the army and having no where to go. I was discharged due to a sports injury not being declared upon enlistment which flared up, it was a ruptured AC joint in my shoulder from playing rugby which healed incorrectly.

I smoked pot back in VIC as I knew it would alleviate my symptoms, and it worked and it worked really well.

when I got the diagnosis, I read up on all the drugs available for treatment, and the chances of me getting cancer just like my grandfather did when he had crohn's is too high for me.

My family doctor back in melbourne always used to get into a panic whenever I had a stomach bug.

 

[danman]

But no Doctor has said to you that Crohns drugs are a higher risk for cancer? Am I right?
This is something you've surmised yourself?

You said in a previous thread, that morphine caused your grandfathers cancer. None of the drugs I've been on contain morphine.

They took samples of inflamed wall during the colonoscopy.

 

[Leafy2]

morphine was not soley responsible for his cancer...................


it sure as hell f**ked him up though. (pardon me)


He was on multiple medications for crohns and he contracted cancer.

 

[danman]

But the question is... was it the Crohn's or medication? Did doctors actually say, or imply that the meds were responsible?

We are more at risk of bowel cancer because of Crohns.

 

[katiesue1506]

Well here's my thinking... which it COULD be flawed but anyhow, here it goes. I would rather take the drugs that may cause cancer and just keep up with normal screenings and colonoscopies. Cancer is very treatable at the insitu stage. It's when you get to stage 4 that there's a bigger risk of dying from it. If you find the cancer early, you can fix it. I'm currently on a double dose of Remicade... its working for me (besides not lasting long enough). While on Remicade I can eat, work, go to college, take care of my animals, and be a contributing productive individual. I would rather do that than go to illegal avenues for something that may just be covering symptoms. This is just my opinion... no need to attack it.

 

[Leafy2]

I am leaving the forums, f**k this shit honestly.


He had cancer which was not treatable, again and again Ive f**king said this, I offered help, but you dingbat baited me into being agro.


If people want help Contact NORML im outta here.

 

[ChefShazzy]

Thanks for the info... I have been taking 6MP and am wondering to myself... how do I know if these symptoms are from my flare, or an adverse reaction to the 6MP? The symptoms are exactly the same!

"Some of the adverse reactions of taking mercaptopurine might include diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, stomach/abdominal pain, weakness, skin rash, darkening of the skin, or hair loss. Serious adverse reactions include mouth sores, fever, sore throat, easy bruising or bleeding, pinpoint red spots on the skin, yellowing of eyes or skin, dark urine, painful or difficult urination. Unlikely but serious side effects include: black or tarry stools (melena), bloody stools, and bloody urine."

Good old mary-jane helps with my nausea and loss of appetite... and does wonders for my mood. Would sure love to start a little garden this spring!

I am open about my cannabis use with my doctors, but no one is willing to sign for a license... Being from Canada, I thought doctors might be more open-minded. Not like I'm asking for much, just a license to grow 4-6 plants, just for personal use... No success (yet - I plan to keep trying and fighting)... But, as you have pointed out, it's no trouble at all to gain access to anti-depressants, and even opiate painkillers, which in my opinion, are far worse than marijuana... Go figure...

-S

 

[jed]

Thanks for the info... I have been taking 6MP and am wondering to myself... how do I know if these symptoms are from my flare, or an adverse reaction to the 6MP? The symptoms are exactly the same!

can docs tell whether its side effects of crohns through blood tests?

i think right meds are going to be the ones where you go into remission. then you dont have to worry about any side effects.

for leafy its MJ, for me methotrexate (and pred, yummy!).

6mp for me did nothing

 

[Jeff D.]

Leafy: That still does not show much of anything. All your studies show is that cannabis can potentially have extracts made from it to treat Crohn's. If you don't already know most of modern medicine is derived from plants. It is possible for them to make drugs from cannabis but it still doesn't show that the actual intake of cannabis in it's natural form actually so much. Your studies just show that the body has CB2 receptors.

Also, remember wiki is not the best source of info but I'll talk about what you posted in them now. Yes, a lot of them have a multitude of side effects. The this is that most of the side effects go away as soon as you stop and the drug is out of the body. Cancer is a risk but it doesn't mean it's a great risk. As I mentioned earlier in another post the risk is not high at all. It may increase by .5 of a percentage point but it may increase a little more if you have a predisposal to cancer.

Prozac in my experience, it may be different in other countries is not used for Crohn's Disease. I can ask my GI if you wish and he is one of the best in the world in treating Crohn's Disease. It can be used for treating depression and different anti-depressants work differently in everyone. I have had to work out of my depression and anti-depressants did not work for me but I won't say they don't work for everyone. Your use of Prozac as an example is not a very good one to me because I have not seen any reputable evidence to show it as a drug for any form of IBD.

I find that you keep putting words in Dingbats mouth. She never said she was against cannabis or its use, she just said that we need to be careful because there is not a whole lot of evidence showing it being useful to Crohn's yet by reputable sources. We also have to remember that cannabis is illegal in many areas of the world so pushing this illegal drug can make some a little edgy.

I know you are excited that you have found something that works for you but sometimes a simple testimonial can be the most helpful to people. The language you are using is rather condescending and is not helping to prove your point. Thank you

 

[Guest]

I am leaving the forums, f**k this shit honestly.


He had cancer which was not treatable, again and again Ive f**king said this, I offered help, but you dingbat baited me into being agro.


If people want help Contact NORML im outta here.

i baited you?? lol

seems from your very early posts, even before i made my first "welcome" comment to you, aggro was always present. you have an attitude problem Leafy - it may not be apparent to you, but it sure is to anyone who reads your posts.

OK I accidentally left out ONE THING...............


with THC.... NO COLOSTOMY BAGS EVER......... OR SURGERY.


this was the key decision for me to take THC.

this was one of your claims which could not be left standing without clarifying... you cannot guarantee that THC (MJ) can avert the need for surgery.

Hey people dont be afraid to reply, 14 views and no comment? im open to all comments negative and positive.!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, right!!!


it is a shame you feel you need to leave the forum. if you would only have taken note of the advice and hints given to you by me and other people, settled down, accepted that you'd informed us of the treatment & left it there, and given more input to the rest of the threads and topics which run here, you would have become a real part of this family. it was your choice to carry on in the way you did. i have a feeling you need this forum more than you'd care to admit, but it's your decision whether you want to leave or not.

 

[drew_wymore]

I was trying to be nice Leafy but then you chose to get nasty. If you want to say "fuck this place" then so be it. We have a wonderful group of people here who do actually care about each other and each others well being. You seem to want to push an agenda and because nobody jumped all over it saying "well sonofabitch! If I just smoke weed then goddamnit I'll be cured!" .. I'm sure you have plenty of evidence. I just read a study that said getting into a car increases your risk of getting into an auto accident. And then I found a report saying if you're the passenger in a car that your increased risk drops by 99%!!!!!

You seemed to want people to comment but when they didn't or didn't respond the way you wanted you get nasty. Nice attitude holmes. You want people to accept your choices yet you refuse to accept theirs? Yeah grow up dude.

 

[kello82]

Leafy- i hope that you decide to come back to the forum as you can see that your infromation and suggestions has helped some, and we can also be of help to you. we are all in this disease together.
i hope that you would be able to take what im about to say constructively:

even a year ago, i was not sure of myself and would not know what i was and wasnt comfortable doing. going to parties was always "should i drink should i not..." when i was on 8 meds including methotrex and flagyl. clearly the answer was no, but i still always second guessed it.
this said, had i joined this forum then (i wouldve been 18 and been able to access this thread) i could have probably been very easily swayed into doing something i was uncomfortable with. i am NOT putting a blame on you if someone decides to try what you have suggested and has adverse effects, im just trying to get at the fact that"peer pressure" can be really hard on someone who is unsure of themselves and in a desperate situation, like i was a year ago.
i am no less desperate now (or wasnt until i got my head wrapped around surgery and now know i truly wouldnt choose anything else) but i am much more sure of myself and know that even if it gave me relief, i would be uncomfortable smoking weed.
that is purely my personal opinion and choice and anyone who is comfortable with it and finds salvation then i think its great for them.
BUT someone could really be convinced to do this and not be comfortable with it and i think thats why you got the responses you did.
information and idea sharing is a great thing to do on this forum, but the "peer pressure" that some of your posts come across as can be harmful, ok? even if you didnt intend for them to come across that way, they kind of did.

i hope that you see the difference between the two ways of communicating.

 

[danman]

Ding,
I think your right about him needing this forum more than we need him. But I feel I've contributed to his decision to leave.

Leafy,
Your only 19, you've only been diagnosed a few weeks, (your biopsies haven't even come back yet), and your scared. Of course you are.

You get told you have a chronic illness, the same one that eventually caused your 70 year old grandfather to get Cancer and die. I was scared too, I was nearly your age, I was 16.

You went on the internet and looked at a few sites to research Crohn's and the medications. You seen side effects posted on sites for these meds and decided to forgo their usage.
This is when you tried MJ.

You need to forget what you've read on the internet sites and go see a professional. someone who can give you the facts.
Or even better, go to a local meeting of your Crohns/Colitis society.

You hit a fork on the road, and unfortunately, you ended up on Route Crohn's.

Your Grandfathers death was a tragedy, But he had Crohn's and he was in his 70's. To say that his meds caused this, is simply jumping to conclusions and then for you to decide not to take prescription meds for this reason, may also turn out to be a tragedy.

Let me tell you a story about a good friend of mine.
Her father was very ill. He was in his late 60's. he was in and out of hospital for a year, and in the last month, he spent all his time in hospital.
This was when the doctors spoke to the family about his condition. They explained that there was nothing more they could do for him, the cancer had gotten too bad in his lungs. (He had smoked 40 cigs a day, most of his life.)

The family were shocked. At no stage did they think he had cancer. Every one in our town knew he had cancer, but they had heard the medical name for it when they had spoken to the doctors and when cancer was mentioned, they thought he'd been misdiagnosed at the start.

After he died, they tried to bring legal proceedings against the hospital for misdiagnoses. It didn't go beyond the lawyers office.
To this day, 6 years later, they blame the doctors. Not the fact that he smoked for 50 years.

My point being, I know nothing about your Grandfather, but he had Crohn's. He was off an age where, when he was diagnosed, there wasn't much known about our disease, so treatment was crude.

You have a long way to go on this road we're on. To base your decision to not take any meds on internet sites and the fact your grandfather died is frightening.

You need to seek help.
I get the feeling, you haven't hit the first major obstacle yet on your journey
There is a lot of pain ahead, and a bit of weed will not cure it, I have that experience. I smoked like a train, I'm still where I am now, with a "Shit Bag" as you called it on another thread.

Don't pull a childish strop, it only shows naivety. "No one understands me, whaa, whaa, whaa". You'll find a lot of help and experience on these boards, if your willing to listen.
Collectivly, we have a lot of miles under our belts, when I was your age, I didn't know anyone with this illness, I was alone. You don't have to be.

 

[mikeyarmo]

As the user who created this thread has potentially left, this thread will be closed to further posting. Please create a new thread if you wish to discuss any of the topics mentioned in this thread.