Diet v medication

[troydanielbecker]

diet v medication

When it comes to diet v medication and IBD, it seems like the best answer is a giant gray field ranging from one extreme to the other, and for any individual the experience may vary. But I am precisely interested in how diet and diet change has or hasn't helped in your experiences.

For me, personally, I lean towards the writings of McDougall which emphasize what diet can do and promote a vegan diet for optimum health. However, I'm interested in counterpoints and other first-hand experience in those regards.

I am also interested in hearing about successful colonic or enema treatments. Maybe it's a bit for one thread, but I like to see the various perspective on this, especially from those of you who have strong feelings one way or the other, coming, presumably, from your experiences.

 

[DustyKat]

I personally believe that diet does play in IBD and like believe that is a very large grey area that varies from person to person. I don't believe it will prevent a flare from occurring but certain diets can help to alleviate symptoms when it does occur.

My daughter has suffered with short bowel syndrome for the last 4 & 1/2 years and has progressively moved toward a vegan diet, so fully vegan for the last 6 months. For her a predominately fruit and veg diet sat best with her and that is why she went down that path. She has been in remission since her surgery in 2006 and does take a maintenance dose of Imuran. I would certainly like to think that the medication coupled with her diet, which has very little processed food (if any) in it, maintains her remission for a very long time to come.

Can't help with the enema/colonic question, my children have ileal CD.

HTH,
Dusty

 

[Dexky]

Troy, I wonder with vegan how you replace the protein needed, especially for the growth of a toddler. Nuts and beans? We met a naturo who subscribed to the blood-type theory. As we are all O-types, the suggestion is that our bodies are more inclined to thrive on meats. O, supposedly, is the oldest blood type and therefore our ancestral hunter-gatherers diet is more suited for us. We didn't stick with this very long because it suggested that all grains were out for us. Try convincing a little boy to eat a sandwich without bread!!

We tried a very low carb approach when EJ was first dxed. The weight just fell off me at this time, so I was convinced it didn't provide umph needed for a growing boy, especially a boy with absorption issues to begin with.

I'm always interested in other experiences with diet.

 

[partlycloudy]

Very interesting. A vegan diet would put me in the hospital within 48 hours. I can't eat fiber, which would also leave out beans.

I suppose I could eat grains with juiced veg/fruit and protein powder. I think I could tolerate that physically although it'd be very difficult mentally.

I think it'd be an interesting experiment for a few weeks once you got past the detox phase.

 

[troydanielbecker]

It's a good question! Luckily one of Isaac's favorite foods is beans and rice. When he is flared up, we go for low residue, which means more rice and less/no beans. But when he first went all-vegan (we did a bunch of things at the same time), his poop/bathroom experience got better right away. And after that we didn't care about reducing fiber. Everything was fine until the doctor asked us to liberate the diet with meat and dairy. He did show a 1 lb weight loss after we went vegan (this is over a one month period), and also his iron was lower than desired.

Maintaining his condition now, he seems to be fine with cereal and rice milk, rice and beans. And even though now we're vegan four days a week, on Wednesdays we have some meat things and on Tuesdays and Thursdays we include cheese or other vegetarian options.

I was inspired too after reading about some Macdougall diet families who raise children purely vegan just paying attention to eating the right kinds of foods. Depending on what you can/cannot eat, it might not work for everybody.

Isaac always tended to be a picky eater, but until we finally realized he had GI problems, he was the one of us who always tended to eat meat and cheese. We were just really lucky he also likes beans and rice because that made a transition doable.

 

[Miss Spencer]

For me, personally, I lean towards the writings of McDougall which emphasize what diet can do and promote a vegan diet for optimum health.

I have had some success with a vegan diet, but I have not been doing it fully. But I recently got serious and have taken it up a notch.

I don't take any medication, as they make me feel bad from the side effects.

Over the past few years I have discovered that a vegan diet is best for me, and last month I decided to go 100% vegan.

If I eat bread, dairy or meat, I get UC flares (i.e.): blood, pain, mucus, constipation, diarrhoea and chronic painful wind.

I had some dairy and meat over Xmas and last month, and the pain was awful. It made me cry.

So I have now commited to a pure vegan diet, with supplements.

Since I started the strict vegan diet, the UC settled right down within days and I don't have any more pain. No more mad dashes to the loo either.

Early days yet, but it looks promising so far.

 

[troydanielbecker]

I wanted to add, Dexky, that because Isaac is robust and seems to get all of his nutrient absorption in his healthy small intestine, it has been a luxury that should not go unstated that we were able to give him food and if he wasn't hungry for it, we didn't need to worry about letting him get hungrier or worry about him starving. When he was hungry, he would eat what we gave him. Even when he lost a pound over a month, he was still energetic and healthy looking.

 

[troydanielbecker]

To keep the thread going, some posts mention nutrition, or ignorance of nutrition. Here is where I hope people would post some "basics" for IBD. If you, reader, feel like IBD patients should know something about diet/nutrition, please post here. I'm curious.

Troy
Father of Isaac, dx UC in 10/2011 at 29 months old
Read details here: http://ibdinourhome.blogspot.com

 

[Dexky]

Troy, after quite some time on this forum, I've found that diet varies as much for IBD patients as the disease itself. EJ can eat all veggies raw no problem. He can eat lettuce too. Raw apple passes through him completely undigested. It has never hurt him though. He used to have trouble with grapes but wanted to try them again the other day and handled them with no problem. Strawberries used to bother him but I wonder if he'd give them another try, they might be ok now.

The only advice we ever received about diet from the GI's office is to make sure EJ eats a well-balanced diet. All the other advice we got was from a naturo-chiropractor and that was more in reference to EJ's liver situation than his crohns.

 

[partlycloudy]

Here is where I hope people would post some "basics" for IBD.

The basics my GI doc gave me were to avoid stuff that "came out looking like it went in." In other words, tomato skins, corn, nuts, etc.

However, a quick glance through this forum proves those same basics aren't a problem for another person. Unfortunately it seems to be trial and error for each person. How I wish there were a set of rules to go by.

 

[ameslouise]

Yep, it seems our diets are as different as our diseases. There are certainly many books out there written by people who have achieved and maintained remission thru diet and lifestyle changes. I tried that route. It did not work for me.

Unfortunately, it does not seem that medication is working for me either!

But as for diet, it's trial and error for all of us. I agree that the best advice is - balanced, sensible diet, moderation, no junk/processed food. Everyone - Crohnie or not - would benefit from that!

 

[endibd]

I know diet works, and it does vary from person to person, but that variance seems to only be based on whether people are on a 'diet' that offers complete and proper nutriton or not, and that they stick to it or not.

There's a thread on here called what are you eating now that I found - it's a great read for anyone who hasn't already read it.

The one huge issue with a damaged digestive system is that it's like the chicken and the egg. How do you fix the system with nutrition, when that nutrition needs to pass through that malfunctioning system.

To keep the thread going, some posts mention nutrition, or ignorance of nutrition. Here is where I hope people would post some "basics" for IBD. If you, reader, feel like IBD patients should know something about diet/nutrition, please post here. I'm curious.

That's where fresh live juices are a lifesaver.

It doesn't require a funcitoning digestive system to absorb the nutrients that provide the building blocks for your body to use to heal itself, which your body is programmed to do and does so every day, with the nutrition it has available to it as old cells die off and get replaced by new cells.

If he can only absorb food in his small intestine, vegetable juice would be awesome. 10 servings a day of vegetables could be given in a litre of juice probably.

That last part isn't just specific to IBD, but all disease.

 

[troydanielbecker]

Thanks all. This is the sort of feedback I like.

I think I saw some people don't tolerate juice. But I wondered what sort of juices they tried and for how long and if they were trying fresh juice exclusively and so on.

 

[endibd]

Thanks all. This is the sort of feedback I like.

I think I saw some people don't tolerate juice. But I wondered what sort of juices they tried and for how long and if they were trying fresh juice exclusively and so on.

I'm pretty sure people were not reacting to the juice. Straight green juice or some juices like cabbage in high concentration can cause discomfort. But in the case of the cabbage it's because it's breaking down all the undigested crap lodged in your gut, and that reaction can cause gas etc. as a product of the chemical reaction.

Fruit juice after a meal can actually cause problems too. Not from the fruit, but from all the sugars in the fruit juice reacting with the fats and animal products and refined starches in the other food.

Just like eating a watermelon after a huge meal can make you bloated and feeling bad. It's not the watermelon, it's the combination of the sugars in the watermelon and all the stuff you just ate, which you probably shouldn't have eaten together.

Most vegetable juices, including celery carrot parsley and spinach mix are safe in terms of that kind of reaction and can actually help those foods from causing you issues.

 

[Rebecca85]

Ah, that may have been my problem. I had some passionfruit juice with breakfast on holiday, within a couple of minutes I was doubled over in pain. So much pain that if I didn't know I had Crohn's, I would have thought I had appendicitis. Since then I have been wary of trying juices (since I had actually eaten passionfruit the day before with only mild diarrhoea as a result, naturally I came to the conclusion that it was something to do with the juicing process that caused the extreme reaction).

Now why couldn't you have posted this before when people have told you they can't tolerate juice?

 

[endibd]

Now why couldn't you have posted this before when people have told you they can't tolerate juice?

Working through one detractor at a time ;-)

It's the same with all sugar actually, in combination with a lot of other foods. That large coke with a Mc Donald's meal is like the nail in the coffin.

Drinking carrot celery spinach and parsley before a meal that might normally give you bloating or gas, can likely alleviate those symptoms you would normally have.

Here's a chart that is in another Walker book, Diet and Salad, regarding food combinations that can, and shouldn't, be eaten together:

http://www.reactivateyourself.com/combining-foods.html

It's a different picture (ie re-done) but the same combinations as in Walker's book.

I find a little mixing isn't necessarily bad, but dunk your sausages in syrup like Homer and you're asking for trouble.

It's important to differentiate fruit juice from vegetable juice. Vegetables have very little natural sugar, while fruits are a dense source of calories, and some fruits much more so than others.

With juice, the nutrients (and sugars in the case of fruit) are right there, and don't need to be extracted by the body from the fibre. Same with stuff like watermelon and watery fruits, it's more readily available, already dissolved sugar in water and more removed from the fibre through chewing. Fruit juice is more like sugar than fruit on that chart of combinations.

While it's a natural sugar (and if consumed on its own isn't like true refined sugar and is easier on your system than refined sugars like white sugar or a can of soda pop) very watery fruits or fruit juices are more like sugar for the purposes of food combination.

When you eat the fruit whole, the sugars are released more slowly, over time in your body. When you juice, it's all there, right away, for your body to take in. Sugars included.

Also keep in mind proportions. Many people eat a disproportionately large amount of protein and fat and refined starches with a meal.

Walker's book on juicing is all vegetable juices (well 99%).

 

[endibd]

And something about the physical/mechanical considerations of food moving through your system, and the impact of eating fruit after a meal:

"FRUIT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FOOD. Let's say you eat two slices of bread and then a slice of fruit. The slice of fruit is ready to go straight through the stomach into the intestines, but it is prevented from doing so.

In the meantime the whole meal rots and ferments and turns to acid. The minute the fruit comes into contact with the food in the stomach and digestive juices, the entire mass of food begins to spoil...."

Tolerance will very person to person, but in general when you eat something healthy - like fruit, vegetable - and you feel ill, it's pretty safe to say you aren't allergic to the fruit or vegetable, it's not that you can't tolerate that fruit or vegetable. It's probably something else due to your overall diet that is causing it, and likely some other food, or some other food in combination with, or the way you ate it all together, that is the source of your discomfort.

Fruit and vegetables are the most natural things in the world and we can live exclusively off them if required, very healthy, as provided by nature in the wild. There was no cooking when humans were first on this planet, we survived.

We're messing with nature deviating from anything but a live food diet, but many people can tolerate it. However when you can't, it's probably not the natural stuff you can't tolerate (fruit and vegetable), it's probably safe to say it's something to do with the other stuff...

It's like logic is turned upside down, because we are used to refined and prepared food. But when you really look at it, that refined and prepared food in your diet should probably be your first suspicion , not the living organic stuff that the planet provides for our nourishment, naturally, no man made intervention required.

How is this un natural food I eat interfering with what nature intended me to eat? ...should be the question you ask yourself.

Instead the question asked often seems to be ... why does this fruit or vegetable make me sick?

 

[Rebecca85]

In my case, certain vegetables make me sick because of the fibre content. I had to follow a strict low residue diet after diagnosis, because I had ulcers, and deviating from the diet caused almost immediate severe pain. I am gradually weaning back on to a regular diet, but still find there are a few things I can't handle. I tend to try 'new' foods on their own, or in a meal that has previously been safe. I am pretty sure that it is the vegetables causing me pain, since before I went on the low res diet, I have had reactions to things like salads (just made with salad vegetables, nothing else, eaten at lunchtime about 2 hours after any other food).

 

[Lydia]

I did the McDougall diet and it only stalled my severe flare for a couple months. I did that diet for 9 months total. I actually almost ended up with a complete obstruction due to all the fiber I was eating, paired with being super inflammed.

In regards to diet and meds, I do both. I do a whole foods diet paired with remicade. My next step is to go low grain, gluten free. I do a lot of home ferments, and I grow a garden.

I do want to go med free again some day, as I had 3 years med free remission once, but the remission was triggered by 1 year of immuran. So in my case there is a balance, between natural and medical.

I dont juice, but I do green smoothies.

 

[brghtii]

I picked up McDougall's book last night. I have found it very interesting! I REALLY want to try a low/no fat vegan style diet. I wondered if anyone had good success with it. Sounds like it is mixed. I think I will begin his elimination diet he mentions in his Digestive Tune Up on page 104. It is a shame he doesn't really explain it too well. He mentions all things cooked (even fruit). Wheat is not allowed in that part of the elimination diet either.

The OP was in 2011...anyone with new news?

 

[troydanielbecker]

It seems like for Isaac things that change up his diet help change his symptom level, at least a little, at least temporarily, but we haven't found a winning solution that works for much of a long term. We thought we had by eliminating soy, but then we observed that it wasn't that simple. He had an inflammation episode while we were on no soy, and since then he's had good bowel results while having soy items too.

My parents and some other family members, on the other hand, have really become a lot healthier going vegan.

 

[brghtii]

I picked up McDougall's book last night. I have found it very interesting! I REALLY want to try a low/no fat vegan style diet. I wondered if anyone had good success with it. Sounds like it is mixed. I think I will begin his elimination diet he mentions in his Digestive Tune Up on page 104. It is a shame he doesn't really explain it too well. He mentions all things cooked (even fruit). Wheat is not allowed in that part of the elimination diet either.

The OP was in 2011...anyone with new news?

I did find a newsletter online that explains the diet better http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/021200puDietPF.htm

That is great that other family members are joining the vegan eating way. It would make it much easier when more are doing it. My family is not pleased. But I'm the cook....