GUT STERILIZATION FOR CROHN’S DISEASE (THEORETICAL CURE)

[Crohn2357]

This is an old article that I like.


SUMMARY

Achieving a substantial reduction in the bacterial flora of the gut is a theoretically attractive means of treating inflammatory bowel disease, particularly colonic disease. There are practical difficulties in obtaining a sustained reduction of the colonic bacterial count, and the potential role of such a treatment regimen is therefore the initiation of remission. The data in the literature supporting such a suggestion are anecdotal, and a controlled study is indicated.

HODGSON, H.J.F. (1987), Review: gut sterilization in inflammatory bowel disease. Alimentary Pharmacology & Therapeutics, 1: 359-366. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2036.1987.tb00635.x

Theoretically, this is the only safe and effective cure for Crohn’s disease that I can think of right now.

@mf15 wrote:

Old Mike
Posts : 4160
Posted 8/3/2018 5:43 AM (GMT -8)

Certain antibiotics can also have antiinflammatory properties, as well as produce ROS.

One odd thing about crohns is that it can be put into remission with enteral feeding, this trial had
strange results where re introduction of green veggies provoked relapse.

What the heck might be going on, was it just the fiber,causing bacterial overgrowth.
This is a really really strange finding.


/gut.bmj.com/content/32/6/702

whole paper
/gut.bmj.com/content/gutjnl/32/6/702.full.pdf

oldmike
Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/3/2018 8:11:00 AM (GMT-6)

I wrote:

xy123
Posts : 1137
Posted 8/3/2018 6:35 AM (GMT -8)

OM it's very simple, and related to the article I posted above. In fact, that article discusses that issue as well.

You eliminate the immunogenic, irritant, and fermentable food particles from your diet. You eliminate the local food-driven inflammation, and massively decrease microbially-driven inflammation (because of the serious microbial reduction in the gut through enteral feeding).

Theoretically, gut sterilization and fully elemental enteral nutrition would cure Crohn's. The microbiota and the immunogenic, irritant, toxic (think plant toxins or microbial toxins in your food) foods are the only generators of inflammation in Crohn's.

I remember that study very well. You posted that a few years ago in the forum. They used Elemental 028, a fully elemental enteral nutrition product, in that study. You can't achieve the same results with a semi-elemental enteral feeding product like Modulen, because of the immunogenicity of the milk protein in it (also carageenan, maltodextrin etc.). Elemental 028 is a very clean product compared to others, it's probably the cleanest on the market.
Post Edited (xy123) : 8/3/2018 12:27:54 PM (GMT-6)

OM wrote:

Old Mike
Posts : 4160
Posted 8/3/2018 6:46 AM (GMT -8)

xy123, oranges seemed to be safe in the above study. I wish they would have indicated
which greens were the cause. Some might be safe while others not.

Take a look at the food vs c reactive protein in the whole study chart.

These people had a lot of strictures, so might depend on the fiber type.
I still say this is a wild finding, where the greens are causing the problem.

Was it raw or cooked veggies or does it not matter.

You might also think digestive enzymes might help.

Of course low residue diet did not help my son when he lost his colon due to UC.
Oldmike
Post Edited (Old Mike) : 8/3/2018 8:51:48 AM (GMT-6)

I wrote:

xy123
Posts : 1137
Posted 8/3/2018 6:58 AM (GMT -8)

Veggies, especially raw, irritate the gut lining and increase bacterial population. Both of these cause increased serotonin levels in the gut, increasing inflammation. Increased bacteria in the gut means increased lactic acid, endotoxin, and nitric oxide; all inflammatory and metabolically suppressive (thus prevent healing). Except for the carrots (because carrots have antimicrobial effect) in moderate amounts, all the other vegetables they added are harmful for intestinal health because of their fermentability, their gut-irritant effect, their toxins, their goitrogenicity, lack of nutrients etc.
Post Edited (xy123) : 8/3/2018 9:06:19 AM (GMT-6)

Also:

Giving people with Crohn’s FMT is akin to putting fuel on fire. Especially when you take into consideration the facts that bacterial load is the most important cause of inflammation; also the innate immunodeficiency, the chronic use of immunosuppressants, the intestinal permeability problem etc. in Crohn’s patients.

Source: https://crohnsforum.com/threads/rem...tory-bowel-diseases.85089/page-2#post-1021128


Edited for clarification:

There are practical difficulties in obtaining a sustained reduction of the colonic bacterial count, and the potential role of such a treatment regimen is therefore the initiation of remission.

The author’s intention is not to speculate on a theoretical cure for Crohn’s, his is solely practical, i.e. the initiation of remission in patients. My interest in the article is more theoretical, it is to use this as an absolutistic scenario as a basis for a thought experiment: IF a sterile gut could be achieved and sustained, AND no immunogenic foods consumed, then that would be a safe and effective cure for Crohn’s.

Otherwise patients could be given high dose steroids (or a combination of high dose of other broad range immunosuppressants) to nuke the immune system, which would also be completely effective; but not safe.

 

[Crohn2357]

Good colorectal surgeons know very well that anastomosis surgery significantly increases the risk of Crohn’s flare-ups, due to the reintroduction of fecal stream that was previously diverted with a stoma.

 

[cheka]

agree-ish with the op. need to kill the bacteria in the small intestine (sibo). and the leaky gut is there too. those two things are first.

then populate the system with good guys.