Has anyone used Astragalus?

[Soybean]

Hey all,

Over the last two months my EIM's of arthritis have been getting to crippling levels. I have discussed this in other threads, and from the discussions I have seen 4 possible reasons for this:- 1) Vitamin D deficiency. 2) Infliximab side effect or drug induced lupus (DIL). 3) Crohns raising it's ugly head and 4) the possibility that I also have Arthritis.

I have been tested and found to be deficient in vit d so my dr has prescribed long term vit d3 supplements. My ibd nurse first off thought the arthritis might be a side effect of the infliximab, but after it not getting any better as the weeks went on (actually got worse) she thinks this not to be the case. I am due my next infliximab infusion tomorrow so the GI has suggested we go ahead as planned and see what happens.

I have been on infliximab for just over a year now, and as I'm in the UK the NICE guidelines require proof that I still have active crohns in order for me to continue on the meds. My GI has requested a calprotectin test. So there is a chance that I will be coming off infliximab regardless of the possibility of DIL.

My fiance was talking to a good friend earlier today who is an engineer (has worked in mechanical and medical fields). He asked how I was doing and Sam explained that I was currently in quite a bit of pain and disabled by the arthritis. He suggested I try astragalus. I have searched the forum and only two posts came up, one saying something aboot astragalus and candida treatment and one listing peoples supplements, with someone saying they took it and it caused a flare.

I then googled astragalus and it seems to be an immune booster, with a lot of the posts stating not to take it if you have an autoimmune disease like lupus, crohns, RA etc. I also googled astragalus and infliximab interactions and found this PDF http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=astragalus%20and%20infliximab%20interactions&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CGQQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F1420-3049%2F17%2F3%2F3155%2Fpdf&ei=1SLRT-3pBsL58QPy7d0u&usg=AFQjCNHNZDHP8FobJ7YcuOIc-BJWPKp8Eg&cad=rja which I think seems to suggest it actually works in the same way as infliximab without all the potential side effects infliximab can cause

So right now I'm quite confused lol. I guess I wouldn't want to take it alongside infliximab, but if I'm taken off infliximab should I give it a go? Judith would you be able to decifer that pdf for me or do you have any insight on this chinese medicine?

Also he suggested reishi mushroom, but I haven't yet researched that.

Thanks all xx

 

[glum chump]

Reishi mushroom and astralagus are both immune boosters. Prior to my Crohn's diagnosis, I would take it during flu season to keep from getting colds. I have not taken it at all during my diagnosis since I have been taking drugs to lower/calm my immune system and don't want the astralagus/reichi to provide the boost. I was also told by my naturopathic doctor not to take astralagus with immune related issues.

Given that the medications for arthritis follow a similar trajectory to Crohn's,and that they're both inflammatory diseases, I'm not sure if these two will help with your arthritis pains.

I hope taking Vitamin D will provide some relief for you.

Kismet

 

[Judith]

Hi Soybean and Thank you Glum Chump for the astralagus information.

I am not as up to date on Chinese medicines as I should be but I am interested in looking into it for you.

Arthritis can be very awful. I know from personal experience. Unfortunately it is exacerbated when the immune system is stimulated.

Have you been tested to see if you are generating antibodies to the infliximab? Do you feel the infliximab has been helping your Crohn's?

Just speaking from personal experience here is what I take for my hyperactive immune system/arthritis:
- Vitamin D
- Vitamin B12
- Folic Acid
- Omega 3 Fatty Acids Fish Oil (minus mercury) This is my favorite brand. It took me a long time to find an omega 3 without extra stuff in it that would exacerbate my arthritis. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OQ9SBM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&m=A11S5II6PNQC4O

I feel very strongly about Omega-3-Fatty Acids. I notice a huge difference in my health when I do not take it. I have been meaning to post details about how it helps quiet autoimmune disease on the wiki and just havent had the chance - I promise I will work on it sonner rather than later though.
- The quickie version is there are two pathways, one pro-inflammatory and one anti-inflammatory that are very closely intertwined. People with autoimmune disease (especially arthritis) typically have the balance of these pathways shifted towards the pro-inflammatory pathway. Also, Western diets will shift towards the pro-inflammatory pathway side.

----Cox-2 inhibitors work on these pathways to inhibit some of the pro-inflammatory molecules.
BUT
----Omega 3 Fatty acids shift the flux through these pathways toward the anti-inflammatory side of things but it actually works earler in the pathway than the Cox-2 inhibitors (good thing).

If you have issues with blood sugar you might not be able to take Omega 3 FA (or not as much of it) but I am not aware of any other contraindications (offhand) for taking Omega-3 FA.

Just be careful of what brand you buy because I have noticed there are a lot of Omega-3 Fatty Acids that also have Omega-6 Fatty Acids as an ingredient (you dont want the Omega-6).

Some more information about Omega-3 Fatty Acids:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-3-000971.htm

I hope it helps and I will see if I can add anything to what Glum Chump said about Astralagus.

J

Oh yeah, and Yoga. It can really be painful when you first start but it does help- especially with the joint pain - muscle spasm - nerve pain cycle....

 

[Judith]

Soybean,
So I was reading over the paper and it was looking at whether the APS (Astragalus) could reduce inflammatory cytokines stimulated by LPS (lipopolysaccharide). Lipopolysaccharide is a highly immunogenic component in certain types of bacterial cells (E. coli is one type).

They used a cell line THP-1 which is an immune cell cancer line. They probably used this because it is easier to work with. When I have used non-cancer immune cells in the past, they were a huge pain. But, if you are using tumor cells the main question is how close are they to what you are trying to study? There is something going on in tumor cells to make them tumor cells..... are these changes restricted to control of the cell cycle? That is a question up for debate. Sometimes it doesnt matter to the pathway you are investigating... sometimes it does.

The authors were looking at some pro-inflammatory factors like TNF-alpha and IL1-beta. The Remicade drug you are taking is supposed to reduce the amount of TNF-alpha in your body in order to suppress inflammatory activity. TNF-alpha and IL-1beta are increased in immune cells by addition of bacterial LPS. The authors suggest that if Astragalus is added, activation of these pro-inflammatory is reduced. I had a problem with this finding. Astragalus may very well reduce these pro-inflammatory factors but they were working with tumor cells (this is very common though). Also, the concentration of Astragalus they were noticing an effect at was absolutely enormous. I am not sure how a person would get a physiological dose that high without seeing some toxic effect. 50-200 micrograms of drug was used in this study. That is really high.

I found some additional literature that actually said Astragalus does the opposite- induces TNF-alpha and IL1beta but they looked at a time course between 8 and 18 hours. The other article looks at 24 hours so it is possible the effect is reduced at the 24 hour time point. The other literature I found agrees with what Glum Chump was saying. Astragalus induces a load of pro-inflammatory factors which could help in underactive immune dieases/conditions but might very well exacerbate your arthritis where the inflammatory response is hyperactivated.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933230/pdf/pone.0012561.pdf

 

[Soybean]

Thanks both for your really helpful replies, sorry it took me a while to respond, I've not really been 'with it' over the last couple of days, and have mostly been asleep. I'll be staying well clear of the astragalus and reishi then lol!

Judith, in regards to if the remicade has been helping the crohns, I definitely think it has. My fistula has healed and I rarely get pains that aren't manageable and go away quite quickly. My BM's have reduced (although they have gone a bit too much the other way lol) The one thing throughout it all is my energy levels which are rubbish. Sometimes I'l get a few days where I actually feel totally with it, most days I feel quite hazy. Hopefully taking this Vit D3 capsule and a vit b complex will help some.

So I had my infusion on friday. The arthritis in the wrist has almost gone (only hurts if I try to lean on my wrists), and the arthritis in my foot has gone (apart from a couple of twinges). My index and middle finger on my right hand really hurt for aboot an hour after waking, they feel swollen and bruised, but they look normal. They feel a bit painful throughout the day, but over the days that pain has reduced. Fingers crossed the last two months were a blip.

My ibd nurse set up an appointment with my GI for the 20th. I had my calprotectin test (typically on the thursday my body all but refused to go, managed to in the end, but it was a teeny amount, so hopefully that will be fine to test) so I guess we'll discuss the results of that, and discuss if my arthritis gets worse again.

I've started a food, bm, activity, sleep, pain, mood etc etc diary so that I can collate the data and show it to my GI, instead of forgetting most things and going away cursing myself for being a numpty lol

Thanks again xx

 

[Judith]

I am so glad you are starting to feel better. I hope it continues - and quickly! I understand the out of it feeling. The last few days I have either been asleep or might as well have been (feeling completely out of it and foggy) plus an asthma attack on the freeway. Joy. I was making my husband dinner and actually had to sit down because slicing the tomato was just too much!

As David always says, make sure to get your D3 levels checked before you start to supplement - good luck!
J

 

[NewbieMom]

We have just gone to a Chinese herbalist (who is an MD in China, but an herbalist/ acupuncturist in the U.S.). A woman with Crohn's recommended this specialist as someone who had helped her in a significant way and done the same for many others. We just got some herbs (along with diet/ supplement recommendations). While I know the herbs are a mix, the container says Radix Astragalus Membranaceus and I believe that is a key ingredient. I found this write up from Thorne Research: http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/8/1/72.pdf

 

[bangarang]

Astragalus is great, I usually add it with other herbs for a post workout tea. Good to see others interested.

 

[Nym]

I love running into CF threads when searching the net. Here's a bit extra on this herb!


THE TRADITIONAL CHINESE MEDICINE APPROACH

Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) treats Colitis and Crohn's with an arsenal of herbs and methods popularized by the great master Li Dong Yuan in the 13th century. Master Li was a pre-eminent gastroenterologist who developed complex herbal combinations to address the many factors and symptoms of bowel diseases. One of these combinations, JIAN PI LING ("Effective Remedy for Digestion"), still forms the basis of many practitioners' treatments.

In order to shed some light on how TCM treatments work, and why they work so well, it is useful to deconstruct and analyze the above formula. There are 13 herbs in the composition, grouped by their effect, as follows:

1. Astragalus root, Codonopsis root (a type of ginseng) and Atractylodis root.
These three herbs are tonics to the digestive organs, which means they strongly strengthen their function. This is indicated by the symptom of chronic, severe and recurrent diarrhea, which is both a sign of digestive weakness as well as a cause of it worsening, as precious "Qi" is lost by the excessive draining of the bowels. Codonopsis, like all ginsengs, has a very strong affinity for the digestive organs, and is slightly warming in its effect. Astragalus, which many have heard of in its capacity as a great immune system enhancer, also has a very specific function of "lifting" the body's energy. In the case of chronic diarrhea, especially accompanied by fatigue, this is a priceless function.

http://vitalitymagazine.com/article/chinese-herbs-for-crohns-colitis/