How Crohn's is more concentrated in different countries

[Tanachild]

I'm looking in depth into Crohn's disease a little more and I looked through here and noticed a lot of people from the UK.

I beg of you to please post what country you are from in this thread. And also post what gender you(son/daughter/whoever) is.

I'm from the United States and I'm female.

Thank you extremely!

xoxo,
Tana

 

[kiny]

maybe helps

IBD is on the rise in any country that becomes Westernised, China, Japan, Korea, North Africa, Eastern Europe, regardless of latitude.

What's interesting is that UC precedes Crohn's disease in many countries, so you get a rise of UC in those countries, and the rise of crohn's disease follows like 10 year later.

Also interesting, and they've shown this many times, that if you look at immigrants who come to the West and compare them to people who stayed in a low-incidence country, those immigrants will have a far higher incidence of crohn's disease than the same people, from the same gene pool, who stayed in their own country.

They've seen this in African tribes where they had 0 crohn's disease, they come to the West and they get crohn's disease. They've seen this with Indians, who come to the UK, they get crohn's disease, meanwhile the people who stayed in India, same gene pool, have a very low incidence.

The genetic link is there in the West, but it's not very strong, it's one rather small factor, a factor that doesn't even come into play in Asia where people are getting crohn's disease without genetic markers. Even with exact twins, the rate is not 100 percent, it's below 50 percent, and it's even lower if you split up the twins, so you can ask yourself if the fact exact twins live together isn't contributing to the fact both got crohn.

Also, genes don't explain the rise of crohn's disease anymore, something is going on with how we live or an agent in the environment is contributing to the rise unrelated to genetics.

If genes had a strong connection to crohn's disease the rate would be steady, you wouldn't have exponential increases like is happening now, genes aren't an explanation for crohn's disease, they only result in predisposition.

http://ibd.ads-netlink.com/IBD/pdf/special/5.pdf

IBD:

 

[kiny]

I think it would be nice if people focused on these type of studies more instead of finding another 400 genes with another 0,00000001% of getting crohn's disease.

I think you can guess why it's rising like that:

-The hygiene theory, the more hygenic they become, the more crohn's disease. (there's some study about crohn's disease called "Eat dirt?" I thought it was a funny title)

-The zoonotic theory, it's in animals, things like MAP and other pathogens are getting in those countries food chain through the West.

-It's just an infectious agent, the more open and Westernised the countries become the more Westerners travel to those countries, we're simply slowly infecting them.

Maybe someone can come up with more theories.

 

[Tanachild]

A theory of mine is a little thing called Mycobacterium Paratuburculosis. It's a bacteria that started in cattle. The results of the sick cattle produced almost the same thing as crohn's. Symptoms for the cattle were: weight loss, diarrhea, can appear healthy months-years, no blood, mucus or epithelial debris in stool, weeks-months when diarrhea is more severe, faster weight loss, fading coat color and losing proteins.

It's pretty similar to CD and could easily be passed to us through the milk and the cattle itself when we eat it. Mycobacterium Paratuburculosis doesn't disappear using normal methods (i.e pasteurization, cooking, ect.) and requires medications; however it is affected heavily by antibiotics, leaving me to believe that there may be some sort of genetic change and making it hard to completely destroy in our bodies. What do you think?

The reason for the country question is the amount of cattle grown and raised in that specific country might have something to do with the total number of people having it. It was really more of background information.

 

[kiny]

The reason for the country question is the amount of cattle grown and raised in that specific country might have something to do with the total number of people having it. It was really more of background information.

This should interest you if you haven't seen it already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pYuf5rnnQo

Those countries where crohn's disease is on the rise all imported tons of cattle with MAP.

 

[Clash]

Kiny's second listed theory is about Mycobacterium Paratuburculosis aka MAP. Kiny has posted dozens of studies and research papers about it. If you get a chance you should read through them in the research section.

 

[Clash]

Sorry Kiny we posted at the same time I guess. Great maps btw.

 

[Tanachild]

I hadn't seen that before. I only just found out about Mycobacterium Paratuburculosis tonight, actually and got really excited about it and posted this thread out of curiosity of cattle.

I will for sure read the research you wrote when I do get the chance. Thank you!

 

[Clash]

You may have misunderstood my comment, I didn't mean to infer that Kiny wrote the articles though he gives very informative opinions of the articles on MAP that he finds.

 

[kiny]

Nod.

It's also easy to get caught up in the theory of MAP, it's a theory that makes a lot of sense, but when they actually test people for MAP, through a DNA test of a biopsy, a lot of tests can not find MAP. The most recent test I read did not find a single case of MAP in biopsies through PCR testing by DNA, they did find AIEC in 50 percent of the cases, especially in ileum disease. Testing for MAP is very hard, crohn's disease might not be one disease, and detection of MAP differs greatly from one lab to the next, there are labs where they can't find MAP, let another lab test the same specimen and they do find MAP.

I just link the posts because I feel this controversy needs to be researched, because if it is MAP, or if it is AIEC, it means that the disease can actually be cured, something that's not as simple if it was just an uncontrolled immune response against gut flora because T cells somehow went astray in the course of people's lives.

There is a chance it is MAP, there is a chance it is predominantly AIEC, some other candidate pathogens like klebsiella are often found, they owe it to people with crohn's disease to not ignore this and pretend the evidence isn't there. Pharmaceutical companies get a constant revenue stream from drugs, they have no intention to cure people, the incidence increases and any zoonotic factors and why it's spreading so fast need to be researched.

 

[Tanachild]

My apologies. I didn't read what you posted correctly. I will definitely check it out though!

Thanks guys!

 

[Beatit]

A theory of mine is a little thing called Mycobacterium Paratuburculosis. It's a bacteria that started in cattle. The results of the sick cattle produced almost the same thing as crohn's. Symptoms for the cattle were: weight loss, diarrhea, can appear healthy months-years, no blood, mucus or epithelial debris in stool, weeks-months when diarrhea is more severe, faster weight loss, fading coat color and losing proteins.

It's pretty similar to CD and could easily be passed to us through the milk and the cattle itself when we eat it. Mycobacterium Paratuburculosis doesn't disappear using normal methods (i.e pasteurization, cooking, ect.) and requires medications; however it is affected heavily by antibiotics, leaving me to believe that there may be some sort of genetic change and making it hard to completely destroy in our bodies. What do you think?

The reason for the country question is the amount of cattle grown and raised in that specific country might have something to do with the total number of people having it. It was really more of background information.

Makes sense before I got crohns I never drank anything else but milk..... All the time.

 

[Tanachild]

A lot of people with CD actually have lactose intolerance. I find that oddly interesting and it fits in with the whole Mycobacterium Paratuburculosis theory.

There are two types of lactose intolerance. The first type is Primary Lactase. It starts about the age of two when the body produces less lactase and develops overtime and only get symptoms in late adolescence or adulthood. It is connected with a gene inherited from parents.

The second is called Secondary Lactase. It results from injury to the small intestine and is more common in infancy. It occurs with sever diarrhea ilness, Celiac Disease, Crohn's disease, or Chemotheropy.

I tried to eat ice cream all the time when I was little and couldn't handle it, but neither could my mother. I think mine is the Primary one, but her parents aren't like that and my mother has Celiac Disease. Is it possible that I have primary and she has secondary?