Overwhelmed Mom/Newbie

Crohn's Disease Forum

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Apr 13, 2012
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Long Island NY
Hello! I have been reading these threads for awhile and have realized how supportive and comforting you are to eachother! I have finally decided to post my story. I have two kids with Crohns, my son Trevor is 18 and diagnosed in 2010. My daughter Olivia is 16 and diagnosed at age 10. The past 6 months have been a nightmare...just a quick history. Olivia had been treated with 6mp
initially until she developed an obstruction in 2008 that required surgery-18 inches of small bowel removed. Immediately before the surgery, her GI decided to try Remicade hoping her stricture was inflammation versus scar tissue. Of course, she showed no improvement, so she had the surgery. After surgery, MD continued the 6mp to prevent reoccurrence of the CD. In March of 2011, her liver enzymes were elevated and a scope showed active disease(with bleeding), so GI put her on Humira (he was nervous about restarting Remicade for fear of an infusion reaction). Humira helped her pain and bleeding, so all was good. A month after starting Humira, Liv developed a cellulitis from a bug bite-her leg was swollen, she could barely walk. A surgeon excised and drained the lesion and she was put on megadoses of antibiotics, which of course irritated the CD. 2 more of these "skin Lesions" followed-she was on Humira for 5 months and 3x had bad cellulitis in extremities.
In Sept. 2011, Liv went for her well physical and her MD found a mass on her thyroid gland. Within a week we had sono and biopsy done and received a diagnosis of papillary thyroid cancer! At this time, my son had also failed 6mp and we had to go to Remicade...I felt my whole world come crashing down on me. Back to Liv..GI stopped the humira immediately, took her off all meds so we could treat the cancer. After a thyroidectomy and radioactive iodine treatment, a nuclear scan in Feb. showed all cancer is gone and no metasteses, Thank Goodness. Fast forward to now...Liv is still not back on maintenance meds (GI started Entocort in Dec when scope showed lesions and bleeding) Promethius markers and LF stool samples show severe inflammation (done 3 weeks ago). My dilemma? Ped Gi wants to put Liv back on Humira. 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions from some well respected GI's and oncologists in the NYC area leave me completely confused. Some say yes, put her back on biologics, others say absolutely not! One MD recommended we put her on thalidomide! Ped. Gi doesn't think methotrexate will hold her and has had no experience with Cimzia, so he wont prescribe it. Yes, we still run the cancer risks, but maybe she won't develop skin issues. Another Md said that he would just keep her on the Entocort until she becomes symptomatic! I am so stressed and my brain hurts from thinking all the time..I hate these decisions, I don't want to cause my child more harm. Of course there are serious risks either way. Liv is doing ok, a bit fatigued, sl pale, and lost 3 lbs.
This impending feeling of doom is overwhelming! I have started her on curcumin and n-acetyl glucosamine for the possible benefits, and I will consult with another MD on Monday(not a GI) about maybe trying Liv on LDN. At this point we have nothing to lose! I am sorry this is so long! My son is actually doing well on Remicade..he is always worried about cancer now, but his CD was more extensive than Liv's-small bowel, stomach and esophagus involvement. My Mom also has CD, although a very benign case diagnosed in her 40's. I hate this disease...I pray everyday for a cure or at least some safe, effective meds for our children. Thank You for listening/reading. Kim
 
Hi Kim. You are most understandably overwhelmed! 2 children with Crohn's and Liv with serious side effects most likley from Humira. I would also feel really skeptical about using Humira again. Do the doctors think that EN could help Liv? Can entocort be used long term (compared to prednisone) because it is not absorbed much? Liv's case is tough and that is why the dcotrs all have such varying opinions. I wish your family the best!
 
Thank You DannysMom! The docs tell me that they do not believe the Humira caused the cancer, but they admit there is not enough written about it to know for sure..so scary!!! They also speculate that the 6mp may have been a culprit since papillary thyroid Ca is slow growing and may have been lurking before starting humira. They advise me that the risks from a potential flare-up could be much worse than risk of developing another carcinoma. I wish I had a crystal ball so I can make the right decision for my child. I am terrified that she may end up needing more surgery if we don't treat the CD soon! Our Ped GI is tired of my endless questions and concerns and what-ifs. I don't think he feels comfortable with my daughter's case...he has been advising us to see other GI's. My son recently transitioned to an adult GI, but they won't take Liv until she is 18. I guess we have officially received our walking papers! Talk about feeling helpless!
As far as the EN treatments, I have always been interested, although, I am not sure how well Liv will comply..she is a busy girl....she actually slept out at her girlfriends house last night. She seems very unaffected by all of this. Her focus right now is college prep, junior prom and her social life! I guess that is all very normal! She complies with all other treatments, so maybe she would.
I know that when she had her bowel resection, the NG tube was what she hated the most, so not sure if she will pass an NG tube (or let anyone pass an
NG tube!!!) Thanks! Kim
 
Welcome! Glad you found this forum...hopefully, you will gain insight and knowledge that will help you in making such tough decisions. You all have been through SO much!! Big (((hugs))) to you!!
 
Hi Kim,

I don't have much to add, except it may be time to look into alternate therapies, that don't involve harsh drugs. I really couldn't tell you what is out there, but do a thorough research and talk it over with physicians. Our thoughts are with you, as you deal with all of this.

Kit
 
Wow, Kim, I'm so sorry you've had to deal with so many issues! :(

I'm sure you will find lots of information and support here! :ghug: It's so tough being a parent to children who are sick; heartbreaking to see them suffer, so very difficult to make these decisions and often when we feel that we just don't have the support or information we need! It sounds like you're a great mom and on top of everything!

I'm glad you're son is doing well on Remicade - I hope it continues for a long, long time! :)

I'm sorry that your daughter has had so many more concerns to overcome! But, she's obviously a strong girl with a great attitude! :)

My son has done EN as his treatment since last year. His initial treatment was six weeks of formula only (no food), he ingested the formula through NG tube overnight (inserted the tube at night and removed in the morning). Since then, his maintenance has been 1/2 the dose, 5 nights per week. Its been a great treatment for my son with no side effects; may not work forever but ,with the nutritional benefits and no side effects, will take it while we can! There are a number of parents here with kids who have done or are doing EN - ask any questions :) There is also an Enteral Nutrition subforum under Treatments.

I can also relate to being in 'limbo' re GIs - my son is being transferred from his children's clinic to an adult one in the next couple of months. Gratefully, my son has been fine and without issues but there is certainly a 'discomfort' in knowing that long term plans are sort of 'on hold' until you move on to a new GI.

Welcome to the parents forum! I know you'll find lots of supportive and welcoming parents! :ghug:
 
Seriously scary and I feel for you as I have been at the scared stage with Violet before.
She just finished a two mo trial of Humira. Was supposed to be three mos but it helped not at all as far as QOL. Pred did.

She also has been on formula feeds for the entire time since dx, now it is just at night while sleeping. It is a huge benefit and even if your girl does it sometimes and not every night it'll be better than not at all. It takes literally SECONDS (not minutes) to place the tube and none of V's pals know she uses it, I let her skip if she wants a friend to sleep over or go to a sleepover.

HUGS and some love :kiss: and feel free to PM if you want any details about the formula feeds. She's been doing it almost four years so we're kind of experts :)
 
Welcome Kim! Was going to say we all feel overwhelmed occasionally, but wow you have really been in the wringer! I can't really offer much advice, but be reassured that you are doing the best you can for your kids. Be sure to take a break when you can and take care of yourself too. Sounds like your kids are both old enough to partcipate in their choices?
 
Hi Kim and :welcome:

First up...:hug::hug::hug:

Oh my goodness, it is no wonder you are beside yourself! I also have two children with CD. My son is the same age as your Trevor and he was also diagnosed in 2010. My daughter is 20 and was diagnosed at 14.

I am so sorry to hear of all your daughter has been through, bless her. I agree that EN is certainly worth looking into as is Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN). The other thing that might be worth looking at is a Stem Cell Transplant, I don't know if having a previous cancer diagnosis affects this but I wouldn't have thought so.

Following Liv's resection what supplements has been taking? Does she have bloods that regularly check her levels of B12, Folate, Iron Stores and Vitamin D?

Are her skin issues an Extra Intestinal Manifestation (EIM) of her Crohn's?

Has she ever been on Prednisone?

Sorry about all the questions Kim!

I am glad to hear your son is doing well, :), but can well imagine his distress at seeing what his sister is going through, poor love. :hug:

Good luck and welcome aboard!

Dusty. x:heart:x:heart:x
 
Goodness you are certainly having a very difficult time. Hope you manage to get a treatment that works. I have to add my two cents in as well and say it would definately be worth trying to persuade her to do the EN. At least you would be trying something that has no side effects so it would remove a huge worry. My son went to high school with the tube in for 8 weeks and was fine. The first 4 days it annoyed him after that he was fine - no one teased him and it certainly seemed to help
Good luck!! I hope things improve soon.
 
I am sorry I dont have anything to add other than I am sorry you are going through this. My heart breaks for your kids, my son and everyone else that has this horrible disease. I just wish everyone could feel better.

You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers.
 
I have no advice, but wanted to say hi and welcome!
You have been through a ton, but hoping that your daughter gets settled soon and that your son continues to do well on Remi...(((HUGS)))!
 
Welcome. Sorry to hear all your family has been through with this nasty disease. This is a great place for support and info. I can not offer any advice just understanding. You have done a great job seeking help for your kids...all you can do is your best in your decision making, especially when trained professionals seem to be having trouble coming to a concensus. Send good thoughts your way.
 
Hi Kim,

Welcome to the forum! So sorry to hear about all that you and your family it going through. I don't have any advice, I wish I did. Just wanted to let you know that my son started EN a little over 3 weeks ago and had no problem with the NG tube whatsoever. He literally doesn't even gag. He has even convinced his sister to try it just for fun!!!
 
I would like to thank all of you for making me feel so welcome, it really is so comforting!!
I have been reading your posts for months and following your childrens' progress and it feels so good to be a part of such a supportive, special group with some really great people! I have to admit that many times after reading some posts, that I find myself in tears and all emotional, and my 11 year old asking me, "Whats wrong Mom?" When reading your stories, I find myself reliving alot of my own experiences.
Yesterday, I talked to my kids about maybe trying EN, and I was very surprised when they both said that they were willing to try!! Now, I have to figure out where to begin. Our ped GI probably won't go for it. When Liv was first diagnosed, I did ask about this tx. and he shot it down, instead opting for steroids and 6mp. I also consulted with a registered dietician/nutritionist at a local children's hospital, and she recommended just starting Liv on Modulen supplements daily. Will an adult GI order EN?? We are pretty much done with ped GI-he has unofficially sent us on our way. I think he is not comfortable with my daughter's case, he keeps referring us to other MD's. I also think he is tired of all my questions and concern's and "what-if's". It's his way or no way and I'm not comfortable with that either at this point. What size diameter is the NG tube that you use? Is it a 5/6 french or maybe an 8 french diameter?? and I'm assuming it is a very soft, flexible tube and fairly easy to insert?
I am consulting with an MD in NYC on Monday and hopefully get Liv started on LDN..probably the transdermal form? What side effects should I be on alert for?? she is so busy with school right now, and has missed so much recently, i hate for her to have any crazy side effects with this drug!
@ DustyKat... Yes, Liv has been on prednisone, twice for several months at a time. She has terrible cushing side effects from it, but it did quiet down her flares and helped with her stricture pain. We like to refer to it as "dreadnisone" and actually my son refused it and opted for Entocort instead. She has never had blood tested for B12, folate, ect.. but she is on all of those supplements, Calcium, Vit D, folic acid, probiotics, N-acetyl glucosamine and recently added Turmeric. Also on iron for sl. anemia. As far as stem-cell transplant, I have read success stories-there is a Mom on Dragon Pack forum whose son had a successful transplant and is doing well (is an adult now).
Liv's skin lesions had dermatologists baffled-they don't believe they were manifestation of CD-2 of the episodes involved bug bites, the 3rd popped up out of nowhere-they cultured, sent biposies ect..and had no answers for us?? I think they were the result of a very compromised immune system, she also had problems with oral thrush during her treatment with Humira. Oh gosh, sorry this is so long... Thanks again everybody!!! Kim
 
Kim - I am so sorry to hear all you are going through. I am so new to all this and haven't had half the complications others have had but I wanted you to know that I am praying that you receive strength and clarity to make these difficult decisons.

As an aside, my daughter's name is Olivia (the one with Crohn's dx just 3 months ago at age 12) and her nickname is Livilou! And it doesn't stop there...my name is Kim! Weird huh?
 
@ crohnsinct...oh my gosh, what a coincidence, especially the Livilou thing!!! Liv's middle name is Nicole, so I don't know how we came up with it! It started when she was a toddler, so i probably just thought it was cute!! And your Kim too, lol!!! Thank You for the prayers and well wishes, everyone seems so nice here..I am so happy I found this forum!! Kim
 
I will defer to the experts on EN and LDN. :) The only thing I will say is in Australia paediatrics is only to 16 so when my son was commenced on EN it was by adult GI.

I would have her B12 checked. My daughter had a little more bowel removed than your daughter did and she was commenced on three monthly B12 injections from the outset regardless of her levels. My son had a more conservative resection so is being monitored at present. It my go some way to explaining her fatigue.
I am assuming it was her terminal ileum that was removed?

I know who are talking about with the SCT! If you go the link I gave you it is Mr Ziggy. :)

Dusty. xxx
 
haha same thing with our Olivia...middle name is Leigh so you would think we would call her livilee but nope! We are vacationing in VA right now! Willliamsburg...love it here. Second choice though after we had to cancel our trip to Ecuador becaus Liv is on Remicade and can't get yellow fever vaccine.
 
Hi Kim ... we are from Long Island too (Nassau County) :) There are so many good hospitals in NYC ... I hope you can find a new GI you are happy with.
 
@dannysmom....Hi! Are you using the team out of Cohens Children,s??? We are in Suffolk County, so LIJ is kind of far for frequent appointments, but we did see docs out of Mt. Sinai-supposedly very highly respected. We are currently seeing a GI(adult) who is associated with LIJ, he was willing to see Liv, all the others in Suffolk refuse to treat her until age 18.
@DustyKat, yes Liv's disease is in terminal ileum..going to look into B12 supplement.
@crohnsinct...I hope you are having a fabulous vacation..I have never been to Williamsburg, but I would love to get there one day! Enjoy! Kim
 
Kim-
I have had CD since I have had memories- I can say at 4 I remember trips to the Er. When I was officially dx at 28 my Drs had a hard time getting me into remission- off to UCLA- wouldn't do that again! The suggested I go to New York. There are Drs there in the Hasidic (sry about the sp) community. They have a higher concentration of CD and treat it more agressivly and dont seem to scratch their heads over this disease that most Drs do. That was their words. You are close by. Take advantage of it- it could be life changing for you!!

:thumleft:

Lauren
 
Hi Kim,

My son's tube is a 6 Fr. It is very thin and very flexible, kind of like a piece of rubbery spaghetti. He has had absolutely no problems inserting it. After only a week he could do it in about 10 seconds with absolutely no help from me. I was amazed at how simple it was, totally amazed.
 
@tots-We actually went to see a doc out of Mt. Sinai in NYC-supposedly a world-renowned specialist in CD. Almost every pt waiting to see this doc was of hasidic jewish ancestry. This particular GI recommended that my child start on thalidomide...talk about aggressive therapy!!!
@Twiggy....I figured that they would use a very small tube. Do you run the feeds on a kangaroo pump, and does the tube ever get clogged/occluded, since it is so small?? i am a ped. nurse and am familiar with some of the equipment..but my pt's are so much smaller than my big teenagers (newborns). Kim
 
Hi, my name is Kim too. Funny how many Kim's seem to be on the forum!! The medications for Crohn's seem to be such a minefield - so far not one I have had to deal with thankfully. My son is still doing ok after his 8 weeks of EN - it was Modulen he had as I believe it has an anti-inflammatory agent in it as well as the nutrition.
There seem to be a few options re the tube. Some kids are happy taking it in and out for overnight feeds and some like my son just kept the tube in for the full 8 weeks and then had it taken out for good. We had a couple issues with drawing the stomach acid at the start of a feed when I couldn't pull the syringe back (nearly had a heart attack) but if I gave him a drink of water and got him to lie on his left side for 5 mins it always shifted the tube so that it worked fine.
The other difference between my kiddie and alot of the others is that I just stood next to him and fed him the "meal" through a gravity bolus feed (you can still adjust the speed it goes through) at regular meal and snack times. Others seem to have a pump which runs through the night but I have never dealt with that.
On a side note if you chose Modulen - most kids can manage to drink it according to the nurse! You can flavour it with milk flavourings but my son couldn't stand the taste of any of them which is why he got the tube. Then your kids could drink it out of a glass and if they go out/school then they can take a flask of it with them.
 
Welcome Kim! I don't envy your decisions especially with the conflicting professional advice. She's been through so much already! I hope this place can help you as much as it has me and so many others!
 
O.K. no more advice but just another coincidence...I am originally from Long Island (Huntington) also! Moved to CT for dh's job 17 years ago.
 
Hi. We started with a pediatric specialist at Cohen (LIJ) but she did not seem to listen, so we quickly went to Columbia/NYP. We also consulted with the head ped GI from Mount Sinai. (Mount Sinai is the "go to" place for Crohn's in NY. Doctors from Johns Hopkins told us this.)We are sort of using both ped GI's right now - hoping somebody can provide answers. It would be much more convenient to find doctors from LI. I've never been to StonyBook doctors and wonder how that would be.
 
Hey Kim,
I second the rubbery spaghetti description, V uses a small infant sized tube even though she is 5'3" and 138lbs. If I set a stopwatch on her during insertion it'd be maybe 8 seconds. We don't aspirate for stomach acid, never have. She drinks water through a straw while inserting to keep epiglottis closed. We have an Enteralite Infinity pump, very small, maybe 4x3in, and QUIET. It's pricier than some but worth it.

Her response was dramatic, but she also was far sicker than your girl when commencing. My feeling, after almost four continuous years on it, is, if I can give her guaranteed nutrition until she is done growing, I want to do that. Not to be downplayed either are the anticytokinergic effects, you can read studies on this, mostly form European researchers.
 
Kim - Yes our pump is a Kangaroo pump. The tube has crimped when he rolls over in his sleep but it has never clogged. The Modulen we use is a powder so when I mix it up I use a blender to avoid any clumps. My son inserts the tube without the guide wire it comes with, don't know if that is standard practice or not.
 
We also use a Kangaroo pump with a 6FR feeding tube. We also insert without the guide wire and haven't had any issues. After taking it in and out several times my son has chosen to leave it in most of the time. We use Peptamen which is a premixed formula.

Twiggy, how many calories is your S getting daily?
 
Aboveitall, do u have links to any of those studies ? I am going to pass the idea past the gi this month about doing feed at night but allowing food during day. Hunt does not have a lot of appetite and it would be good not to stress about what he does or does not eat. Not missing a growth spurt and additional healing effects sound good to me.
 
Thank You everyone for the very informative details about EN treatment. Now I just have to convince one of our GI docs to order it! I may be continuing my search for a new MD.
@ Sascot....Hi Kim! There certainly are many of us on this forum! I'm glad that your child did well with the EN treatment. It makes sense to give bolus feeds if the tube is going to be in long-term. Do you know if there is a difference in gastromucosal healing with bolus vs. slow, continuous NG feeds? I do remember giving Liv the flavor packs when she was on Modulen, but she wasn't very compliant with it..she hated the taste. However, she will drink Ensure/Boost without any complaints.
@dannysmom....Olivia had her bowel resection At Stony Brook. The pediatric surgeon was amazing! I would recommend him to anybody (hopefully you will never need it) Just the nicest man, with an incredible bedside manner, he is great with the kids. I did consult with the ped GI's at SB, but honestly, was not very impressed. We do however see Ped. endocrinology and oncology out of SB and they are great. Our ped. GI is in the Catholic Health Care System..good group, but I think they have had enough of us. They only had 6 kids on Humira when Liv started, and they are very limited with new therapies-they won't even try Cimzia and as far as I know don't use EN in their practice. I'm kind of done with them as well....the best was when Liv was having symptoms of impending obstruction, I took her in and the nurse practitioner took one look at her and than looked at me and said "Well, she doesn't look sick to me!" She was admitted to hospital that very night after undergoing radiologic testing, yup, definite obstruction. Unreal... Kim
 
Hi, don't think there would be much of a difference in healing whether bolus or continuous feeds if the EN is exclusive (well, we were allowed foxes mints, 7-up and chewing gum but no food).
I once asked my son if he would rather have Modulen or a blood test. He said he would rather have a blood test - so it must taste rotten! :biggrin:
 
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