Probiotic Question

Crohn's Disease Forum

Help Support Crohn's Disease Forum:

J

Jeff D.

Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
5,054
Alright so I pose to you guys a question about probiotics. In my Microbiology class I posed the question on whether or not probiotics were effective. She wasn't super versed on probiotics but the way she put it was that our bodies would destroy the bacteria and use the bacteria for protein and other things. The bacteria she said would never make it into the intestinal tract.

I now pose the question to you guys:
Do probiotics actually make it into the intestinal system or do probiotics get used up as food source?

Thanks

Jeff
 
Interesting thought. I have no idea! Don;t they go throuhg with the rest of your food, so should make it down there? Or perhaps you are saying they get digested higher up and so don;t get much past the stomach!
I hope they work as I take them and they are expensive!
 
What I'm trying to say is that even though probiotics are "good" bacteria they are still bacteria and because of this they still have to go through the bodies whole array of defense mechanisms. We have mucus traps. We have temperature. We have changes in pH. We have digestion. We have so many things that could potentially destroy probiotics. I don't know how they get to where they need to go. I don't have the time to study this right now and may very well be something I need to look into over my winter break but if someone has time to try and find out this answer now it would be great.
 
Jeff, I have wondered the same thing...I felt like a total idiot because I asked the pharmacist if the acid in my OJ would harm the bacteria when I mix it together. ??? Then I realized how crazy that is because our stomach acid is so much stronger....
I suppose that certain bacteria is resistant to the acid...for example H.Pylori, which causes ulcers.
Also why do we get food poisoning?? Salmonella would theoretically die before it ever caused problems???
So, here is my guess....some bacteria are resistant enough to make it into the intestines.??? I'm sure someone else probably has an even better explanation.
That is a very good question. I would love to hear the exact rational as to how probiotics work.
 
Last edited:
Since the bacteria in probiotics is able to and does live in the intestines I assume it is able to survive the digestion process to make it there.
 
I think that to survive the digestion process and reach the intestines, the probiotics have to have special coatings. That's why good brands have special enteric coating to help them reach the intestines intact.

Also when you eat yoghurt, the probiotics in it are naturally protected by the milk proteins and Calcium in it

"Again, to answer this claim we checked the scientific literature. Do fermented milk products have any properties that might help the bacteria survive in your GI tract? The answer is yes. Fermented milk contains many substances that nourish and protect the lactobacillus species. A recent study demonstrated the ability of calcium phosphate to protect lactobacillus acidophilus from bile acids but had no effect on salmonella. Milk products also serve as excellent buffering agents and will help neutralize stomach acidity. A common recommendation from poison centers is to drink milk when confronted with a poison situation. Furthermore, the bacteria in yogurt are alive and well, not in a dormant cycle as the bacteria in probiotic supplements are, making them more fit to adapt to sudden changes in their local environment. "

http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/conspiracy/conspiracy.html
 
Last edited:
My son has to take probiotics due his UC, his GI told us that the little milk drinks you get are rubbish - you have to buy the expensive stuff.

Now ours comes in a powder - no coating ...a reason I am certain it gets to the digestive tract is that when my nieces came to stay once I lobbed the probiotic powder in with the beans - so everyone got some...

Now beans on their own can be rather "fruitful"... but my goodnss this was something else.... five kids with the most spectacular flatulance I have ever heard - it was like the frog chorus only much louder and more triumphant.

They all slept in the same room and I nearly passed out when I went in to wake them in the morning!

Interestingly no one had tummy ache - they all said they felt great.

So... thats my totally non-scientific experiential suggestion for your question!

Lishyloo
 
Cool. I was just wondering. The coating aspect is something I haven't thought about before. Thanks for enlightening me my friends.
 
Hi Jeff! How is ya...anyways, I take www.vsl3.ca and it shows statics on it and the probiotics are 450 billion per package, but you go by the amount of bM's you have and I take two packages a day. I take nexium to reduce the acid and take the drink with cold water, because if it is warm because our body temperatures can kill off the bacteria you have to have it cold. I dunno if it works for others, all I know is I have been on it over 6 months and have hardly any flares, and reduced my sugar intake. Probiotic cultures need a bonding agent and what I picked was the one with the starch. Not cheap but is purolatured to me overnight with little freezer packs and is a dry powder. You have to take a significant amt and takes up to 3 weeks before you see any results. I have had 2 resections and maybe it could be all in my head but it works for me. It is $88 bucks a box and is not covered, I tried with my insurance, but I dont have to buy otc stuff hardly at all and havent taken imodium since I dont know when. Hope this helps. Works for me!
 
Jettalady said:
Hi Jeff! How is ya...anyways, I take www.vsl3.ca and it shows statics on it and the probiotics are 450 billion per package, but you go by the amount of bM's you have and I take two packages a day. I take nexium to reduce the acid and take the drink with cold water, because if it is warm because our body temperatures can kill off the bacteria you have to have it cold. I dunno if it works for others, all I know is I have been on it over 6 months and have hardly any flares, and reduced my sugar intake. Probiotic cultures need a bonding agent and what I picked was the one with the starch. Not cheap but is purolatured to me overnight with little freezer packs and is a dry powder. You have to take a significant amt and takes up to 3 weeks before you see any results. I have had 2 resections and maybe it could be all in my head but it works for me. It is $88 bucks a box and is not covered, I tried with my insurance, but I dont have to buy otc stuff hardly at all and havent taken imodium since I dont know when. Hope this helps. Works for me!
Click to expand...


I have the VSL# 3 DS(double strength) Since it is double strength, I needed a Rx and my insurance covered it.....Just thought I'd pass that info along..
 
I used to take probiotics and I still do if I'm going to be on antibiotics. I was posing this question more for me knowledge then anything else. I haven't tried VSL# 3 as it's way too expensive for me but I have tried Primal Defense and others like it.
 
Thanks imisspopcorn for the little tidbit of info. I too take VSL, but haven't looked at double strength to be covered w/prescription. I'm going to check it out with my insurance company.
 
Your stomach has a mechanism that allows water and other liquids to be released from the stomach, instead of sitting there digesting like solid food.

If you take probiotics with only water on an empty stomach, the survivability will be much higher than taking it with food. I am sure much of the bacteria is killed in the process, but you do not need all of it to survive. If one tenth of a percent survive, that is probably plenty.

Since the bacteria is present in your intestinal tract already, it only stands to reason that it can survive there, if the probiotic makes it to the destination.

Your body does not attempt to kill bacteria that is not a threat, probiotics contain bacteria that should not be recognized as a threat so many of the immune processes are never triggered. Other bacteria, on the other hand will fend of any threat to its survival.

Bacteria of various strains are going to be living in your guts regardless. We are just attempting to change the balance of the bacteria from harmful to harmless, or beneficial. This is where eating habits promote or prevent survivability of certain types of bacteria and fungus, which is probably even more important to maintain good Flora. If you eat a diet that promotes fungus, all of the probiotics in the world are not going to help much, as the fungus has ideal living conditions.

That is my two cents.

Dan
 
My thought on bacteria surviving is that they are meant to be in the intestines. They have to pass through the pH changes from the mouth to the esophagus, to the stomach. I can see with a coating that they could potentially get past this area. I can also see how taking it on an empty stomach could help more bacteria survive.

Thanks guys for the info
 
Well I am gonna give one more month of VSL and mix it with the yogurt, I usually take it double strength in Cranberry juice but I also take Nexium to reduce the acid, and it has helped my HH but obviously not my Crohns, so the yogurt protects it, maybe one or two of the 900 billion suckers will make it down there!
 
Ris, I just saw this thread again. I don't have much more info but this is my thought; everything you eat is, for the most part, broken down into sugar, protein, or fat. We have to then consider what makes up bacteria. Bacteria is made of mostly protein so I would assume that our bodies would take up bacteria as any other food so the protein will be further broken down into amino acids and such. I'm really trying to figure out how digesting bacteria can help you out.

The areas of the body that most of our bacteria lives, except H. pylori, are areas with neutral to slightly acidic pH. The bacteria would have to go through a pH of 2 in the stomach to reach the almost neutral duodenum. I don't see how that's going to happen. That's with my opinion and science background taken into account. Maybe the people who make probiotics have a way to coat the bacteria so that it makes it to the duodenum but I'm not sure. Until someone can prove that to me I probably won't be taking probiotics anytime soon.
 
Bacteria are fairly resilient (except when you want to work with them in the lab of course) so they can survive all those transitions reasonably well. As Dan said all you are looking for is a small amount to survive and reach an environment where they thrive. This is where vsl#3 is so beneficial due to its exceptionally high count of bacteria. You have to remember that there are 10x more bacteria in/on our body than there are human cells, so it is clear that our body can recognize good and bad bacteria to fight them off. Aside from the acid, there is little reason for our body to recognize probiotics as "bad" and kill them, so assuming this is the case, the bacteria will be able to make it to the intestines and work their magic there.
 
Yes, I know that there are countless bacteria cells. My idea isn't that our body purposefully kills off the bacteria but that we digest it due to stomach acid. I think I'm going to ask my GI about this, he's pretty knowledgable about this kind of stuff and if he doesn't know it he can find it. I'll post what he writes back, if he writes back, sometimes he's a little busy to entertain my ideas and thoughts.
 
Since I use VSL I would love to see it on a microscope! My daughter had Biochemistry last semester but may take more next year and get her to check it out. I am still using the VSL but after just being dx now with Colitis or Crohn's colitis, it may not be working..,dunno?
 
That would be awesome if she could take a look at it. I don't have any microscope labs in my future, I don't think. It would be great if she could take pictures and you could post the pictures on here so everyone knows what they are getting.
 
I was thinking, since bile acids could destroy most of even 900 billion good bacteria (I take two packages and in juice or yoghurt) alot is lost, is there a way to get your own gel capsules to put some of the powder in it, to make it travel farther and do the trick?

I do take Nexium, and that helps but I also dont have a gall bladder... just wondering is all.
 
All probiotics must be kept refridgerated, most pharmacies keep some in their fridge and always check the date. The dont have a shelf life, keep them cold!
 
I have never kept mind in the fridge. In fact the pharmacies keep them on the shelves. They come in blister packs.
 
I have also bought some ones that dont need refridgeration, for when Im away for a weekend or something. They said they just arent as good.
 
I emailed my GI and they want me to ask the nutritionist but she's out of town for 2 weeks so I guess we'll have an answer then.
 
Info on Probiotics

Was just in with to see my doctor yesterday and spoke with him regarding Probiotics. He said the only on found to have any effectiveness in IBD is VLS. The theory is that when we are born we are bacteria free and we begin accumulating bacteria as we put things in our mouth. Perhaps abnormal bacteria may have an affect on IBD. He suggested a diet limited in bacteria while adding VLS to see if there is any effect. The SCD actually talks about some probiotics found in many of the dairy products as actually being counter productive. My cousih swears by VLS as his cure, he has IBD in the rectum and it can about following years of antibiotic overuse. I think Probiotics are like all of the other "treatments" out there as they are miracles for something and do nothing for others.
Good luck!
 
Welcome Les, to the forum. Tell us your story, unless I missed it! :smile:

Erazer I think Les means VSL #3 you can read it on two sites, www.vsl3.ca or .com
 
Last edited:
I use 2 pkg a day and have for 6 months..dunno if it is working because of my recent findings of inflammation now in the large bowl... go figure.
 
Is it perscription Pam?
If so I might ask my GI about it, save myself some money by getting the insurance company to pay for it.
 
I took Florastor all of last year and into the first month of this year. I only stopped because of the price. At $30-40 for 25 days it was a little much. I really liked it and did notice a difference when I stopped for 3 weeks last year.

I am currently taking Align, just because it is a bit cheaper.
 

Similar threads

A
What would you do?
Replies
22
Views
2K
Delta_hippo
D
B
Infliximab and Azathioprine?
Replies
1
Views
2K
Eire
E
N
I've Got SOMETHING Wrong With me...
Replies
3
Views
1K
notafan
N
A
Superstition and Anxiety
Replies
12
Views
2K
Aituk7
A
T
Concerned Mom, looking for advice
Replies
3
Views
1K
Maya142
Maya142

Latest posts

Back
Top