Properties of E Coli strains Isolated from Children with IBD

[kiny]

Invasive Properties, Adhesion Patterns and Phylogroup
Profiles Among Escherichia Coli Strains Isolated from
Children with Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Received: 5.12.2011
Revised: 6.02.2012
Accepted: 8.10.2012

full study: http://www.advances.am.wroc.pl/pdf/2012/21/5/591.pdf

 

[kiny]

hm changed the image host to tinypic, the host site was automatically taking away the pictures sorry

 

[kiny]

Here is the other one.

There is another one, about kids and adherent E Coli, they could find it before diagnosis and were able to use it as a marker for later development of CD, but I would have to look it up, don't think it's that interesting because what are they going to do, predict who will get crohn by testing every kid or something, pointless, they should act on this instead of the stupidity of many GI who don't realise bacteria play a central role in crohn's disease, so do the genes, ATG16L1 and NOD2 are related to bacterial recognition and autophagy, wake up.

 

[kiny]

hmmmm, can't culture the bacteria that must mean it's not there right, lets ignore the mountain of evidence, the hundreds of studies by now, every month new ones showing it

absence of proof is not proof of absence

some GI are still like this:

fire them

 

[David]

Interesting stuff. The thing is:

1. Why do these bacteria cause specific symptoms in some people, but not in others. Could it be another issue that these bacteria are then taking advantage of?

2. Wouldn't this make Crohn's a contagious disease IF it is the cause?

 

[kiny]

A correctly functioning NOD2 gene is needed to make the correct NOD2 protein to correctly recognise bacteria, and they think it also allows the innate immune system to differetiate between commesnal and pathogenic ones.

If someone has a NOD2 mutation, and many people with CD have, the innate immune system would be compromised, bacteria are uncontrolled, the adaptive immune system will cause inflammation as a response to the innate immune system who failed clear the bacteria and the gut flora failed to reach homeostasis. Add to that that AIEC and MAP are able to exploit this scenario, they exploit macrophages..


Contageous, I don't know, it's not only AIEC, it's a whole bunch of strains, in adults they find a lot of LF82, but they found others too, they find other types in kids, they find MAP in adults, they find some people with crohn are susceptible to other infections etc.

I doubt it is one single bacteria, it's a bunch of bacteria and issues causing a clinically similar disease.

People with crohn are unable to reach bacterial clearance on their own, it's a chronic defect that is made much worse if they are challenged with AIEC and MAP.

What is not considered to be pathogenic in a person with a correctly functioning innate immune system, will be marked as pathogenic by the adaptive immune system in someone who fails to reach bacterial clearance, until the pathogen is removed from the host.

That is what I think.

 

[David]

Interesting that these guys are working to stimulate the innate immune system and it has worked well so far, eh?

 

[David]

I'll take your theory a step further. I agree with everything that you said. However, I think that NOD2 mutation simply leads to increased and specific issues. I believe the innate immune system not functioning well is caused by vitamin and mineral deficiencies. This would explain why enteral nutrition and juicing helps so many.

In my mind, every theory must be able to explain why enteral nutrition helps.

 

[kiny]

Yah, hmm I like EN, although I do not get the same benefit from EN that I get out of antibiotics. EN has been a gradual improvement for me really.

I think you are right about EN improving nutritional status, once I started EN my bloodworks come out much better, it is full of micronutrients which they artificially add in there.

I think EN can work because:

-nutritional deficiencies are corrected
-it's absent or really low in fibre, which has an effect on the gut flora and will shift it
-it is very low in bacterial load, most food is much higher in bacterial load than EN
-it is low in microparticles that could make inflammation worse if there are already lesiosn present

I hope I am throwing the ball in the correct net, but I think lately all the studies are making one big thing that makes actual sense, I think many of the dots are already there. I also think safe antibiotics regimes and things that stimulate the immune system will be found to safely help people with crohn before we understand all there is to understand about the disease, the dots are there, some smart scientist can hopefully connect them soon.