Real info on painkillers

[Doc]

Many, many times I have dealt with people who take painkillers and don;t actually know what's in them, how strong they are, or how long they are supposed to last. My back pain, which they now believe to be a product of either Crohn's or RA, was undiagnosed for over 3 years, so I have run the gamut of low level prescription narcotics for quite some time. Not knowing what you are taking can lead to things like liver toxicity (which can happen with a single high dose of Tylenol, not so much slowly over time), accidental overdose, and addiction. The information below is meant to be informative and, despite my username, I AM NOT A DOCTOR but I will provide more information here than doctors seem to like to.

Explanation of terms:

acetaminophen, apap, and paracetemol- all are different names for Tylenol.

"simple"- refers to something being the only active ingredient. For
example, "simple Darvon" means a pill in which Darvon is the only active
ingredient.

"Brand names" refers only to the most common, and does not include all.

Meds listed in the order of relative strength.

1) Codeine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codeine
Brand names: Tylenol #3, Tylenol #4
Strength: 1/10 the strength of morphine.
Dosages: Generally, 30mg codeine/ 300 mg apap
and 60mg codeine / 300 mg apap respectively

2) Darvon-N (Propoxyphene Napsylate)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darvocet
Brand names: Darvocet-N, Darvon-N with ASA
Strength: undetermined, thought by some to be less potent than
codeine
Dosages: 50 to 100 mg Darvon-N / 650 mg apap (other formulations
exist, including some with aspirin)

If you think info on further drugs could be helpful, lemme know. I'm stuffed to the brim with this stuff. Also, comment on the format I'm using, whether it's too confusing or not.

 

[Kev]

Hey doc, welcome to the forum. input is always appreciated, and new members are always welcome. I'm just a little confused as to whether you have a form of IBD or not... so, is it a case that you have both crohns N RA, or docs don't know whether you have either??? Perhaps, if you were to tell us a little more about yourself, and your crohns or crohnslike experiences. We have a whole section set aside for new members to intro themselves.

anyway, as far as your 'nickname' on here, to each their own. I'm glad you pointed out that you aren't a doctor... Most of us have a love/hate sort of relationship with doctors. folks may have a hard time warming up to you on the basis of that nickname.. but one of the things we are upfront about to all folks who join or visit is that we aren't doctors, any advice one is given on here is typically just our own, hard won, first hand experiences shared.

As for the info on various drugs, painkillers, etc.., welll, that's welcome too. Just that many of us have 1st hand info/knowledge/experience there as well... And, I think most of us, despite a respect for sources like that of wiki... will opt to look at sources that are more... welll, 'structured', or.. welll, 'regulated'. Like, there are any number of sites that are provided by the drug makers themselves (argument could be made that they're biased, but also they CAN, at times, have the most info re side effects, FAQ's, etc) AND to offer a counterpoint or more balanced source of info, there are any number of drug info sources that have a better medical pedigree than wiki.
I'm not saying that info on wiki isn't valid; just that.. as an open source, a lot of the info CAN'T be verified. since the web also provides us with access to sources accepted by the medical community, think the scales tip in their favour. Like, if I were looking for medical info at home the really old fashioned way, I'd probably opt for a medical text vs an encyclopedia, even if it was Encycolpedia Britannica... maybe that's my own shortcoming.

Anyway, once again welcome. hope to see more from you in the future..

 

[Doc]

Thanks, Kev.

I have the symptoms of Crohn's, IE, I appear to have RA and IBD at the same time. I am undergoing a series of tests over the next few weeks to determine what I have.

You're right about Wiki. I was using it as an easy point of reference, since my basis for my information is from personal experience, I was just adding some documented background to it.

My main point for this is the fact that I've read through some of the threads in this and other forums where it is obvious that people have severe misinformation regarding painkillers. I personally never got any help from my doctor understanding what pills were and did, which led to problems including not knowing that certain things needed to be moderated as addictive (for example, he never told me Percocet had oxycodone in it, then he also didn't tell me it had apap in it).

I will take advantage of the intro sections. I kinda wanted to wait till I knew my diagnosis, but I suppose people are more likely to be ok with me if they know a little about me.

As to my nickname, the kids at college gave me that because of my knowledge of pills, and the fact that my college called several teachers "Doctor" who had no doctorate, so the joke was that I could become a doctor if enough people called me that.

 

[Guest]

Explanation of terms:

acetaminophen, apap, and paracetemol- all are different names for Tylenol.

i'm confused lol. as far as i knew, Tylenol contains 3 active ingredients: pain reliever, decongestant and antihistamine. whereas paracetamol purely contains the painkiller.

& codeine, although one kind of Tylenol (3) has it as an additional ingredient, isnt simply the generic name for Tylenol. Basic Tylenol does not contain codeine.

 

[Kev]

Welll, not to get into the whole med thingy... but one big pitfall of talking meds is that some brandnames do cross borders... it may be more common in the US/Canada transborder case... BUT, the ingredients MAY not be identical.
Kid you not. A rose is a rose is a rose, right? Not so fast. national regs, even licensing agreements, means that what medicinely is sold under 1 brandname in a country might, tho sold under the same or similar name in their neigbouring country, NOT be identical. Usually, the 'actual' drug (for want of a better term) at the base is the same.. in fact, I can't think of or recall any cases where it wasn't... except for when the identity behind the maker of plain old aspirin was disguised because of the war... ingredient did remain constant... so it's more like the reverse of what I'm talking about. It certainly happens more often with OTC's, non prescription strength meds., but it can/does occur with script strength meds too.. commonly with those for... oh, shit... what's that tropical disease that used to be treated with Tonic Water? Malaria?!?... Yeah, think that's it. The 'drugs' for it change ingredients multiple times a season.. at least dependant upon the prevalent strain.. tho the name will stay the same... and the country of drug origin. A lot more of this was tossed about the press when controversy began over a lot of US residents buying their drugs surreptiously from Canadian sources back when the US/Cad exchange rate favoured the US$ by 60 - 70 percent. Wasn't any truth to allegations that Canadian sourced meds were not as safe, or fresh, or trustworthy as American sourced ones. Just that a lot of US drug suppliers were losing BIG BUCKS. But, one did have to watch for some subtle, or not so subtle, differences in a brand name there vs here.

Anyway, it's not a real hot topic of concern. Just some FYI if interested..

 

[Guest]

yes, i did wonder if meds with the same brand name, used for instance in the usa and the uk, could contain different ingredients.

not a hot topic, as you rightly say, and not one i was arguing for the sake of it. i just think its important to clarify statements on drugs, particular on a forum like this, and make sure readers know the full story.

 

[D Bergy]

WIikipedia information should be taken with a grain of salt. I have found several errors in subjects in which I know a lot about, which is not many.

If the information has many sources available the Wiki seems to be more accurate. The more obscure the information, the more inaccurate it becomes.

Dan

 

[Kev]

Yeah, despite their obvious bias, the drug makers sites (per country at times) contains the most accurate info as to their composition, etc.. Side effects are an iffy thing... don't know IF I trust them explicitly on that score. But many med boards abound... some go the other way. Frinstance, I take whatever claims are made on the lowdosenaltrexone forum with a grain of salt as well. I am not trying to disparage (sp?) the posts there, but a lot are more 'voodoo' in nature than science... and many are based purely on anecdotal info... with no way of screening out possible placebo effects.

 

[Doc]

As to the Tylenol thing, just plain old Tylenol regular or extra strength contains only apap. Tylenol #1, #2, #3, and #4 are all brand name formulations for apap with codeine in varying ratios. The Tylenol product in the US with the ingredients you mentioned is Tylenol Cold and Sinus or Cold and Flu.

Hadn't realized the spectrum of countries here. I guess brand names could be a problem. For example, buprenorphine is available as a patch in the UK but not the US, as well as pills of simple hydrocodone are the same way.

And to the wikipedia thing, I will use different sources in the future. Maybe I'll just stick to answering people's questions about drugs rather than trying to cover all the info there is at once :boring:

Thank for the feedback, all. Just this conversation has been very informative as to how this place works as far as a conversation. Every forum's a little different.

 

[Guest]

i always head for the actual drug site itself on the net, if i want info, the one supported by the manufacturer.

wiki i only use for mildly curious searches, spelling & suchlike.

i hope you didnt mind us debating the ingredients of the drugs you mentioned, doc, & its not boring lol - i find the whole world of medicine fascinating. its just, posting about medicines and related issues is a big responsibility, & all kinds of people view these boards - so we have to make sure the info left in print is not misleading.

with the vast differences in meds from country to country, its not that hard to understand the confusion. there should be a european policy which governs that medicine names should mean the same, all over the world.