Update on oldest daughter

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So after suggestions from some of you Victorya had a gastric emptying study done last Friday. It showed moderate gastroparesis. I still want more opinions though. I asked the doctor if her taking a Bentyl and Zofran that morning(her symptoms are debilitating upon waking) would affect the test and he assured me that they would not. Now after the fact I'm reading that yes, Bentyl absolutely will. Now she was able to drink her contrast in water(instead of eggs) so I wondered if it didn't equal out because he said it was extremely slow emptying. I was also reading how most tests ranged from 3-6 hours where hers only lasted an hour. I'm now wondering if I shouldn't get him to run another test, this time after her toughing the morning out with no meds. Just wanting some input from you guys.


Em is being tapered off of steroids at present(she's been on 40 mg a day for 3 weeks) in hopes that the Entyvio is working. She's had 2 infusions so far and will go back 3/10 for the last of he loading doses.
 
If she had extremely slow emptying with water (liquids always move faster than solids )
- not sure why she didn't eat eggs - that's why it's a standard so you have standards to compare them too .

Anyways
Liquids move a lot faster than solids so if her liquids are extremely delayed (that test is suppose to be only an hour )
Solid test is 2-4 hours with 4 hours being the standard

I understand you don't want it to be gastroparsis
But definitely worth treating since it can make a big difference in pain and quality of life

Bentyl may slow transit some but not enough for moderate delay
Ds had borderline delay of solids only but major symptoms which are now being treated with erythromycin
He did the liquid empty test as well and it's typically done with water /tracer for just one hour
Those results were normal for him

If liquid is delayed then

solids will be worse
 
My daughter also had moderate gastroparesis when we did the test. Honestly, if her liquid study is delayed so much, her solid study is only going to be worse.

But the test should be much longer - 4 hours is standard.

You can certainly get a second opinion though but I would expect them to want to repeat the test, most probably with eggs.

Bentyl would probably affect the study. If the test had shown borderline gastroparesis with Bentyl, then I probably would repeat the test. But since it showed clear GP, then I think you probably have your diagnosis.

However, if you do want a second opinion, Boston Children's has a good motility center. So does CHOP. Nationwide Children's is also VERY well known for motility issues.

Gastroparesis really can be managed. My daughter started of on Erythromycin. That helped her. Now she is on Domperidone, which helps more but is a pain to get (we have to get it from Canada).

She also could not tolerate liquids - drinking formula caused extreme nausea/vomiting. Eventually she became so underweight that she was hospitalized many times and had a feeding tube placed. She finally started gaining weight and feeling better! She gained over 25 lbs and is no longer severely malnourished and has way more energy.

Now she has a more permanent tube. She gets about 50% of her calories through the tube, the rest she eats.

Many kids are able to just use motility meds and make diet changes and don't need a tube. But if she does, it's not as bad or as intimidating as it sounds.

We do a low fat/low fiber diet since both fat and fiber are hard to digest. A nutritionist can help.

Good luck!
 
I just want to add my last tests showed Envivio working. I still have to have terminal ileum resection soon but my inflammatory markers are down and there's hope on the horizon. I've only had two doses. My thoughts and prayers for you all.
 
If you can convince her to eat eggs, I would do a solid study. And I'd do it without giving her Bentyl. That will give you some peace of mind and a lot more info.

Honestly though, it is likely to be delayed - if the liquid study is delayed, the solid study will be worse.

They usually tell you what % of the meal is left in the stomach after 4 hours. Based on that they dx Gastroparesis.

We actually never did a liquid study - we just did the solid one. That was pretty delayed. Since she could not tolerate liquids either (threw up when drinking formula or even with very slow NG tube feeds), her GI said it's very likely her liquid study would be delayed too.

She now has a feeding tube that goes straight into her small bowel and bypasses her stomach altogether.

Good luck with whatever you decide!
 
Thank you all! I researched my booty off after this post and I did come across my answers. While Bentyl and Zofran do slow motility it isn't enough to affect the test. In fact Bentyl doesn't affect the stomach muscles it affects the intestines.



I also learned that an hour is protocol for the liquid test. I read multiple studies that said there are actually lots of people that pass the solid test but fail the liquid test (you would think it would be right the opposite). One of the biggest problems was that she just can't eat for several hours after getting up because the pain is so severe. The radiologist was fine with giving her water.



Her GI said he was floored when he seen how slow her stomach was. Again, I want to thank ya'll because if not for yall I wouldn't have pursued the testing for GP. The doctor admitted that he couldn't believe he had been treating her wrong.The problem is that it's rare and not well known.


I'm taking her to the pediatrician Monday for bloodwork also. Just in case it was caused by something like diabetes or hyperthyroidism(which my mother has). She has a host of other symptoms so I'm wondering what the blood tests will show. One thing that has me concerned is that both of her big toenails are black like she's stubbed them on something and they have a line(like a thin groove) from one side to the other yet she hasn't hurt them. I don't know if maybe that is from malnourishment or not.


GI Jane, I'm glad to hear that the Entyvio is working for you. I'll be praying for your upcoming surgery. Em took her second loading doses last Friday and will take her last loading doses on 3/10. Hopefully this will be her magic medicine.
 
I read multiple studies that said there are actually lots of people that pass the solid test but fail the liquid test (you would think it would be right the opposite). One of the biggest problems was that she just can't eat for several hours after getting up because the pain is so severe.

If people pass the solid test but fail the liquid test, wouldn't you want to do the solid test?

I have to admit, I have never heard that and we saw four separate GIs about my daughter's Gastroparesis, including a motility specialist. We were told that with Gastroparesis, liquids are easiest to tolerate. Often kids are able to drink when they cannot eat - our GI recommended soups/smoothies and formula. Some kids are unable to tolerate liquids, but when that is the case, they can't tolerate solids either.

My daughter is one of those kids - she could not drink formula or even tolerate it through an NG tube. She would throw up.

Reflux is also very common with Gastroparesis - is she on something like Zantac or a PPI? That could be causing the pain in the morning.

Has your GI said what he will be treating your daughter with?

It is possible your daughter's other symptoms are related to malnutrition. It is a good idea to rule out things like hypothyroidism.

Honestly, I would still recommend a second opinion.
 
I second what Maya said. You might want to consider a motility specialist. We traveled from Florida to Ohio to see the top guy in the country, Dr. diLorenzo at Nationwide children's in Columbus Ohio.
 
The link below is one of the sources that I came across. It sounds crazy but it's there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21365240

The doctor has her on Erythromycin and Pantoprazole(Protonix) along with Zofran and Dicyclomine for the symptoms.

I really do trust their doctor and I don't have the resources to travel for other opinions, but will look into it if it comes down to it.

I have been researching POTS as well and I'm wondering if that may be the reason she feels lightheaded when standing for more than a few minutes in place(as I described in another post).

I'm also going to have the Ped do a vitamin panel tomorrow because she shows signs of multiple vitamin deficiencies(namely Magnesium and B-12).
 
CONCLUSIONS:
Gastric emptying of liquids correlates well with gastric emptying of solids. When evaluating patients for gastroparesis, assessment of gastric emptying of liquids in addition to solids may help identify additional patients with delayed gastric emptying, particularly non-diabetic patients where 26% with normal solid emptying may have delayed emptying of liquids. Symptoms of gastroparesis, however, are primarily associated with delayed gastric emptying of solids.

26% is not that high, but it's higher than I'd expect!

Given her symptoms, I'd expect her solids test to be delayed too, honestly. It's much more likely that both are delayed.

Is Erythromycin helping with stomach pain and nausea? If it is, that's another indication that it's Gastroparesis.

Is she taking the liquid formulation of EES?? Just asking because we tried the tablets first and they did nothing at all. Then we switched to the liquid and that worked! You also have to make sure to take it well before meals - my daughter often tried to cut corners and took it only 5 minutes before she ate, but that really doesn't work.

Some Children's Hospitals will do a record review so you don't have to actually travel for a second opinion. Boston Children's will do one, I believe. They have a good motility center.

The issue is that she hasn't had a gastric emptying test for solids, so it will be hard for them to tell.

Your daughter would need to evaluated by a cardiologist to diagnose POTS.
 
Thank you Maya for the info.

The doctor said it may take 2 weeks for the Erythromycin to start working. I will definitely be trying to get her to take it a bit before meals. I was confused about that as a lot of antibiotics tell you to take them with food to prevent stomach upset.

I'm trying to get her on a schedule and several nurses had said to do the 10-4-10 schedule (don't wake her to give them to her) so that's what we've been doing. I will also ask the doctor about the liquid form of it.

To answer one of your previous questions about digestion here's a run down.


**She had reflux when she came into the world. She had to be put on Allumintum. She also had severe colic. She always ate like a bird and did complain of tummy aches but at the age of 6 started to get them worse.


If she went to pe she would get a terrible stomach ache(her 3rd grade teacher got an earful one day, claiming my daughter was lying about the severity, and get this, the teacher had celiac disease so she knew the possible pain my daughter could have been in. She never said another word after I blessed her out) so she had to sit it out most days. If she ate ice cream it would almost immediately come up. She would insist that she could eat the small cups of ice cream but not a regular scoop (I realize now that that is because those small cups are about the size her tummy will hold).


She was on a few acid reflux meds but nothing regularly and had an upper gi test at around 6 or 7 and it showed that while she was NEVER constipated and had very regular bowel movements, she was backed completely up into her stomach with stool. They took their chance to prescribe miralax and ran with it. That was gonna be the cure all.


Well at age 9 I had had enough. I called the children's hospital in Birmingham(Alabama) and they seen her the next week (our local gi doctor would take a couple of months to get in, even if you were an established patient). They took blood and it came back that everything was normal so he proceeded to things like lactose Intolerance(came back normal), MD test (normal) and then the acid reflux scan, she was immediately dx with severe GERD. She was prescribed Zantac from then on and for a little bit it seemed to help.


Fast forward 4 years, still having stomach aches and eating like a bird but now starting to lose weight. She's also became very picky with eating and refuses vegetables and healthy things (baked chicken is as healthy as it gets, my husband seems to think that GP was brought on by anorexia, not due to her self image but because of pickyness, that can be a cause for GP, but I don't think that's why she has it, who knows). A counselor recommended that when I made something she didn't like just make sure she had another option, even if it's a pb&j sandwich. I did that and things went well but the stomach aches still kept coming and seemed to be more often and more severe.

Since her sister had been dx with Crohn's(thank goodness by the time she was they had a great GI back in town at our children's hospital)he went ahead and checked bloodwork and stool and that's when he found the microscopic blood(on the card) and her CRP was through the roof. That's when he suspected Crohn's with her and ordered the end/col and that showed a hiatal hernia and microscopic(but indeterminate) colitis that he said was neither Crohn's or UC. He was convinced that she had IBS and so for the past year he treated her with Nulev, Zofran and Protonix.


She steadily got worse and had gotten to where she ate one meal a day, there were some days she would survive only on a bag of chips. There are some days she could eat 5 pieces of pizza and get a stomach ache but ultimately be fine and some days that bag of chips would nearly kill her. She can't eat sweets hardly at all(even those small cups of ice cream cause her pain, she just doesn't throw them up). Just looking at chocolate makes her sick and milk and cheese have also become that way. She's always disliked healthy foods but would try them at least. Now I think since she knows she can't eat much she'd rather enjoy the unhealthy options(I can't say that I blame her, it would suck to not be able to eat treats like everyone else). On the topic of diet, I think I'm going to do paleo for her and her sister. I think that's going to greatly help them. I told her that since she has this she was going to have to eat more meaningful meals to help her get the nutrients she needs. And for Em it will help heal her gut.


Anyway, I was convinced that it was more than IBS. She didn't have constipation, she didn't have diarrhea, and unlike IBS she couldn't eat anything without her stomach hurting (ibs you can eat something one day and not the next. So not the case with her). She even got to where the Nulev didn't work and he prescribed her Dicyclomine on a regular schedule and that wasn't enough either. That's when he ordered the MRE to see if he had missed the Crohn's somewhere the scope couldn't go. He said at that time the images were normal. He was just fixing to try her on a round of Pentasa to test and see if it would work and if she started "flaring" back up when it was discontinued, that would tell him if he was still missing something like Crohn's.

That's when I started talking to you guys and learned about GP. He told me he would do the GET first and if it came back normal he would try the Pentasa. Well we all know how that went. He has always allowed me to give him my input and I love that I am a part of my girls treatments.


I will see about getting a referral to a pediatric cardiologist tomorrow. Just getting the blood work tomorrow has me sitting on the edge of my seat.


Ok, sorry for the book but thank you for reading!!
 
Thank you Maya for the info.

The doctor said it may take 2 weeks for the Erythromycin to start working. I will definitely be trying to get her to take it a bit before meals. I was confused about that as a lot of antibiotics tell you to take them with food to prevent stomach upset.

I'm trying to get her on a schedule and several nurses had said to do the 10-4-10 schedule (don't wake her to give them to her) so that's what we've been doing. I will also ask the doctor about the liquid form of it.

I am a bit confused - this advice is not at all what we were told with multiple GIs.

You take Erthromycin BEFORE the meal, to speed up motility. So if my daughter is eating lunch at 1:00 pm, she will have it at 12:30 pm. 20 minutes to half an hour before the meal, always.

You're not using it like a regular antibiotic, you are using it for motility. You give it on an empty stomach.
It can still cause reflux because it is on an empty stomach. But if you use it AFTER she has food in her stomach, it will not work as well.

My daughter did have reflux with Erythromycin, so she took it once-twice a day instead of the three times she was allowed.
With Erythromycin, you should see an improvement pretty quickly. She should have less nausea and pain after meals.

Gastroparesis will not raise her CRP or cause bleeding - has she ever had a pill cam? Sometimes Crohn's can hide in the small bowel and MRE's can miss it.
Have they ever done a fecal calprotectin test for her? That will tell you if there is inflammation in her gut. If that's high and her CRP is still high, then I'd push for a pillcam.

Some of her symptoms do sound very much like Gastroparesis - being unable to eat, stomach pain after eating, weight loss.

Things like chips, pizza, things with a lot of fat, fried foods etc are going to make her sick. High fat foods are HARD to digest. High fiber foods are also quite hard to digest and that might account for her refusal of veggies (besides regular kid pickiness!).

I would suggest working with a nutritionist. They can help you come up with a balanced diet that she will eat. She should understand that things like ice cream and pizza are going to make her quite nauseous.

It's not for forever - my daughter will occasionally eat things like pizza. But she does really pay for it with belly pain and nausea afterwards. Sometimes she decides it's worth it, other times she eats something else. But while you're figuring out which meds work for her, and until she is stable and feeling better, I'd avoid high fat, high fiber or fried foods.

My daughter was 17 or 18 when she was diagnosed, so I let her figure this out for herself. With a younger kiddo, I would help her understand that certain foods are going to increase pain.

I'd be careful with a paleo diet since it's a lot of veggies. Or if you do it, make sure the veggies are well-cooked. We do a lot of soups here. Or things like creamed spinach. No raw veggies at all.

I am going to tag my little penguin, because she can give you advice, especially about Erythromycin.

Here are guidelines on how Erythromycin is given for Gastroparesis:
Both oral and intravenous (IV) eryth- romycin have been used for its proki- netic effect. The IV form is generally reserved for acute conditions. The oral form is usually given in lower dosages than required for antibiotic effects (ie, 150-250 mg PO 3 to 4 times a day given 30 minutes before a meal). The oral form has been shown to work rapidly and can be substituted when the IV form is unavailable.
 
She's also became very picky with eating and refuses vegetables and healthy things (baked chicken is as healthy as it gets, my husband seems to think that GP was brought on by anorexia, not due to her self image but because of pickyness, that can be a cause for GP, but I don't think that's why she has it, who knows).

Gastroparesis can be caused by being malnourished and not eating. The stomach gets used to not have food in it and stops digesting properly. You have to "stretch" - make yourself eat - to get back to normal (or close to normal).

Sometimes it's hard to tell what came first - the Gastroparesis or the weight loss and being malnourished! If her gastric emptying improves when she gains weight, then you can safely say that it was probably due to being malnourished.

If she is SO picky that you think it might have caused her Gastroparesis, I would suggest seeing both a feeding therapist and a psychologist.
 
Same here
We were told it would work right away and it does
30 minutes prior to a meal on an empty stomach
He can take it up to four times a day
It has to be liquid not pills to work
No need to wait for it to work
We use ees granules
Works better than erypred
But only good for ten days so always getting refills and needs refrigerated
 
We also used EES granules - it's the bright pink liquid. We used Eryped too and had the same experience - didn't work as well and it tasted horrible according to my daughter.

It was a bit of a pain because it was only good 10 days, whereas Eryped lasts 30 days (I think - can't quite remember).
 
Thank ya'll. I talked to the doctor and you were right Maya, 30 minutes before meals. I had to go through an act of Congress just to get the pills (which when I took them 10 years ago only cost $10 and her script was over a thousand dollars! Thank goodness with insurance her copay was only $40) but she said she can tell a difference.


It's hard to say if it's her pickiness that made her this way as she has ALWAYS had stomach issues. And I had been giving her alternative foods to eat. The last year has been the worst.


I had asked the doctor about the pill cam when we talked about the MRE and he pushed for the MRE. We had to reschedule her pediatric appointment for Friday so as soon as I get that bloodwork in if it says her inflammation points are still high (she hasn't had bloodwork since 1/2016! When the scopes came back fine he said she didn't need any more bloodwork) then I am going to demand the pill cam. Problem is that she complains about some of her joints(never swollen, they just hurt, like mine, she also has psoriasis so I wonder if she has the Psoriatic Arthritis also)so I don't know what I should have her tested for.
 
We also found that the liquid version of Erythromycin worked MUCH better than the pills for my daughter.

In terms of joint pain, when do her joints hurt? Morning stiffness and pain that gets better with movement and worse with rest are signs of inflammatory arthritis. For example, kids with arthritis often have trouble sitting through a movie or sleeping.

You don't necessarily have to have swollen joints to have arthritis, but they can be swollen/warm/red. Any joint could be affected, but in kids, it usually starts with the knees/hips/ankles/heels.

Which joints hurt? If she does have arthritis, that could explain the high CRP.

Both my girls have juvenile spondyloarthritis, which is very similar to psoriatic arthritis and is associated with IBD.

If you suspect arthritis, she needs to see a pediatric rheumatologist.
 
She actually has told me that the pill form is working great. Tonight she ate 3 tacos at dinner! With no pain!


She complains about back pain and her ring finger on her left hand being in pain. She said when she runs her knee pops sometimes and then hurts her (which isn't often because she isn't very active due to the stomach pain).


Now her sister(the Crohnie) has was complaining of severe knee pain over a year before her Crohn's diagnoses and the orthopedic doctor admitted to grasping at straws because he said the only problem he seen was a small issue with her growth plate which would correct itself as she grew up. Well she is still complaining(3 years later) and some days it's bad. She also complains of stiffness and being sore all over. Neither girls have redness or swelling.


I'm going to call the Nemours Clinic tomorrow and see about getting them in to see a rheumy there.
 
I still strongly recommend liquid erythromycin
Please talk to your doctor
Pills are not the standard for gastroparesis
 
Where is her back pain? Lower back or upper back?

I'd have both girls see a pediatric rheumatologist. Your younger daughter's issues sound more like arthritis to me than your older daughter's. She should be seen soon, if you can get an appointment.

It is standard to use the liquid Erythromycin. We started with pills too, but when they didn't work our GI switched my daughter to liquid. I guess if it's working, you may not want to mess with it.

Also, Erythromycin can stop being effective over time. Watch for that - sometimes you need to cycle on and cycle off. Not always, but some kids need to.
 
I am going to see how the pills continue to go and then go from there. Maybe keep some options open? I will definitely keep that in mind though.

Maya, what do you mean by cycle on and cycle off?

I asked my oldest and she said that her back pain is in the middle of her back.
 
Middle of the back is less likely to be arthritis related. I'd get her checked out, but nothing screams arthritis from what you've said so far. However, I'd definitely have her see a pediatric rheumy.

Some parents use Erythromycin for several weeks or even months and then take a break whenever it stops being effective. Others have a schedule - 3 weeks on, one week off. Every GI has a different protocol.
 
Sooooo, yesterday and today my oldest had pain with eating. Even with taking her Erythromycin at least 30 minutes before. So I will be calling the gi Dr tomorrow(he was out Friday) to see about the liquid version of Erythromycin. Did you guys say it was the pediatric kind?


We seen the pediatrician Friday and she said the toenails were from pressure like moving your toes in your shoes. But see its not just the black toenails, they have beau's lines on both. Pressure wouldn't cause that would it? Also, she gave us orders for bloodwork that we can take to the children's hospital tomorrow(she's terrified of needles and refused to let the office lab tech do it, so we are probably looking at a straight jacket :( ) so we haven't even gotten that done yet.


My Crohnie has brought to my attention that she has another sore on her girl parts,a sign that the meds aren't working, and she's tapering off of steroids so that shows that's the only thing that's been helping her, not the Entyvio. I also remembered that I forgot to give her calcium while she was on the steroids this time (it's been almost 2 years since she had them last and my mommy brain forgot :( ) and now the bottoms of her front teeth are showing side effects of the steroids.


I know I need to wait it out to see if this medicine will start working before I start getting upset but I'm used to things working quicker. Imuran didn't take long, Remicade was almost instant(the next day she was almost completely better) and Humira wasn't quite as quick as Remicade but not far behind. There hasn't been any improvement with the Entyvio and because her numbers were all over the place at her last injection he said that the steroids needed to be stopped and we're almost done with that and now she's showing more signs of active disease.


Today we all went to the zoo and she started to get upset because her shins and knees were hurting so bad, again, no redness or swelling or fever, just pain. She also does that when she's in a flare. But I often thought that the reason it's been better is because of the meds she's on. Remicade and Humira are both used for RA so it just makes sense. Entyvio has only been approved for IBD(that I know of and it looks like it mainly works on UC).
 
Entyvio probably won't work for arthritis - even IBD associated arthritis. There have been a few trials and I know one showed that IBD related arthritis actually got worse with Entyvio and one showed it got better. So the jury is still out, but I suspect you're right and it won't do a whole lot of a kid with arthritis and IBD.

I would definitely have your younger daughter see a rheumatologist. If she does have some kind of spondyloarthritis, she may need a completely different medication.

Entyvio is a slow drug - my daughter is starting it and we were told peak efficacy was between week 14 and week 22. How long has your kiddo been on it? If I remember correctly, she's only had a couple infusions, right?

I know it's really, REALLY hard to be patient, but you don't want to go through another drug unless you have to.

Our GI said my daughter will stay on steroids about 14 weeks - no tapering before that. Why is your GI tapering your daughter's steroids if she isn't responding yet?

In terms of Erythromycin, we used EES granules. There is also Eryped. They're just different brands, I think. You should know though, Erythromycin isn't going to a cure. She may still have belly pain after meals - especially after big or even normal sized meals.

We have to do really small meals, even with a motility medication. My daughter can eat about 300 calories at once - any more than that and she'll get very nauseous and have belly pain. Also, anything high fat and that will cause extreme nausea and belly pain.

For blood draws, numbing cream can help. If you're getting it done at a children's hospital, you can also ask for Child Life to come and distract your daughter.
 
She has had 2 infusions. She's been on it exactly a month(well tomorrow, the 27th). Her liver numbers and white blood cell count went crazy and he said it was more than likely from the steroids. What do we do at that point? :( 14 weeks at earliest and we have 10 left? I am at my wits end.


As far as my oldest, she's back to her tummy hurting almost as soon as a spoonful goes in. And she really likes chicken so she hasn't been eating a lot of fat. And they have offered her the numbing cream and she still refuses to do it willingly. I'm pretty sure she has ODD (we made the decision to reach out for a counselor tomorrow) and I really don't think (though I will see if there is someone who can talk to her tomorrow when we go)anyone is going to get through to her. She can't stand the thought of not being in control of a situation and that's why she refused the blood draw on Friday. :/
 
Let her control what she can - which arm she wants to blood drawn from. If she wants you to hold her hand. If she wants to use numbing cream or Buzzy or both.

I would suggest speaking to a psychologist ASAP. I wouldn't assume ODD without talking to a psychologist - she may well have it, but really only a doctor can diagnose her.

A psychiatrist or your pediatrician can prescribe a small dose of an anti-anxiety medication to use for blood draws, if they think it's necessary. But I think seeing a psychologist would probably be the first step.

I'd still try the blood draw again with Child Life - they are very used to working with terrified children. It may not work, but it's worth trying.

I'll tag some other parents who may have ideas for blood draws:
my little penguin
pdx
Mehita
Pilgrim
Farmwife

For your younger daughter, he may be able to put her on steroids at a lower dose - it's possible her liver will tolerate the lower dose. WBC does tend to go up when kids are on steroids. My daughter has been on for almost two months and her WBC is high too.

I would tell her GI that her symptoms are coming back and ask if there is anything you can while you wait for Entyvio to kick in. I can't remember if your daughter is on an immunomodulator like Methotrexate or 6MP but that would be the next step if biologics by themselves aren't enough AND since she is making antibodies to them so quickly.
 
He said before that he wouldn't put her on MTX or the like unless she made an antibody to Entyvio. I found out why. I was told during her last infusion that NONE of the doctors in the practice use MTX. He would be the first to branch out and do so.


I will definitely see about getting good someone to help with her tomorrow. I agree that a psychologist is going to be the best thing.
 
Numbing cream really does help, but it's important that you put it on at least an hour before the blood draw--don't let anyone convince you to try less time. We had one impatient phlebotomist insist that 20 minutes was enough, and the resulting painful blood draw set us back to the beginning in terms of my daughter's fear.

You can buy 4% lidocaine cream over the counter and put it on yourself beforehand. We put the cream on (first put on a thin layer and rub it in well, and then leave a second thicker layer spread over the area), then put a piece of saran wrap over it, and then wrap the whole thing loosely with Coban. My daughter does all this herself now before her Remicade infusions, but we did it for her at first.

Good luck with the blood draw, and with everything else.
 
We use EES granules for erythromycin liquid
It works really well
But must be mixed at the pharmacy every ten days
Eryped liquid is more shelf stable but tastes horrid and did not work very well at all for my kiddo and most with gastroparesis

Can you get a second opinion on the entivyio?
Not using mtx at all is not the norm anywhere anymore for pediatric ibd
Waiting until antibodies form is too late and then your without a treatment again.

Did they put her in een instead of steroids till her bloodwork calms down ??
 
I'd really push the numbing cream for the blood draws. It made a world of difference for my son. I've been told that the numbing cream can shrink up veins a bit, so if you go that route, be sure she's well hydrated. Now for infusions he uses a j-tip (www.jtip.com).

Another tip I use with my kids is to have the nurse countdown and on the poke, they blow out all their air as hard and as fast as they can. Works like a charm. I saw a study somewhere using a similar technique but with adults and having them cough.

At some point, kids need to come to terms with pokes. Whether it is blood draws, immunizations, insect stings, etc. Sometimes you might have to push it a little. When my son was younger, I told him he can cry, but he cannot scream. Baby steps! When he hit 14, I told him he's too old to cry and he agreed. It takes some time, and it's hard to watch, but it's just one of those things.
 
Now I'm becoming afraid. I had to look up the definition of een and no, that has never been brought up for either child. So I don't know what to do about the Erythromycin if the pills don't seem to be working anymore and the liquid is horrible. Could it maybe just be shot down the back of the throat to bypass the taste buds?

We have been thinking about a second opinion. I'm wondering though if she turns out to have JRA if that would be the push he needs to add something because Entyvio is not going to help her joints. He has always been very open to my opinions on their treatment and I haven't been very proactive as far as adding MTX because I have heard of the adverse reactions(I have Psoriatic Arthritis and I only took it one week because it was so harsh). I will talk to him about it again.

Did I mention that I called today to talk to the gi about my concerns and their office is closed until Wednesday for Mardi Gras? I live on the Gulf Coast and understand the infatuation but I think it's ridiculous that a specialty clinic is shut down for such. They are letting the pediatric office in the same building answer the phones and she told me she wasn't allowed to page a doctor unless it was an absolute emergency and then proceeded to tell me(when I told her I was calling back after hours because she didn't know what she was talking about)that the gi department didn't have an answering service. Ok, I've been dealing with them for 2 years, yes they do. She told me there were no on call gi doctors. Yes there are. I will be calling back after hours for the answering service that actually knows what's going on.

I will try the tips for blood draws that you guys have mentioned. I am waiting on the Ped office to call me back to let me know if we can come back there for the bloodwork instead of the hospital(at my oldest request). She has promised that she will comply and has apologized for the other day. Hopefully it will go better this time.
 
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Ees granules is a generic for erythromycin that comes in liquid form
It's flavored and taste good

Eryped is the brand name and white and comes in a liquid form
It is the one that tastes bad

Ees granules work very well

This is not to be confused with een (exclusive enteral nutrition - formula only no food )
Een is used to treat Crohn's disease
Een is not used to treat gastroparesis
Een can taste good some kids use kids boost or pediasure
Some kids need more broken down formula like peptamen jr
Ds drank it no problem for 4 years


Hope that explains it better
 
EryPed is not that bad - my daughter was able to have it. It does taste bad, but it's not like she'll be taking a large amount. My daughter did prefer EES granules (the other brand of liquid Erythromycin) and it happened to work better for her anyway.

I think a second opinion is a good idea - using MTX is standard now. MOST kids do NOT have significant side effects. If they do, often upping the dose of folic acid, switching from pills to injections or adding Zofran can help. Many parents will MTX at night on a Friday or Saturday, so the child can sleep through side effects.

My older daughter has been on MTX for years. She has mild nausea with it some times - other times she's perfectly fine. It has worked VERY well for her.

If your younger daughter has joint issues, she should really be seen by a rheumatologist as soon as you can get in. It can be hard to get an appt. since pediatric rheumatologists are not that common, so it's a good idea to make it as soon as you can. Spondyloarthritis is the type of arthritis associated with IBD. Psoriatic arthritis is one of the types of spondyloarthritis - there is also juvenile spondyloarthritis (also called enthesitis related arthritis).

It can be treated with anti-TNFs or MTX. MTX is normally used if the spine or SI joints aren't involved and anti-TNFs are used if they are involved.

Good luck!
 
So frustrating,
I hope you hear from them.
We did the buzzy bee for grace when she was younger.
I second the child life specialist! They help so much!

My Grace has juvenile arthritis. You really do want to see a rheumatologist for any joint issues.

I hope things more smoothly,
Hugs
 
I'm sorry for taking so long. My oldest let them do her draw at the doctor's office and did cry and get upset all while the lab tech kept making fun of her if you will. It was subtle things, but still. I understand she's almost 15, but like I've told ya'll she has behavioral issues (sees the psychologist Friday) and that lady should have taken my lead and just zipped her lips. She's been there for years and always been the same way. I'm just glad Tory let her do it. Anyhoo, everything came back NORMAL! No inflammation or anything and her sugar was normal. Apparently though the doctor didn't draw an A1C or thyroid panel. :/



The gi doctor put her on liquid Erythromycin and she said it's not bad at all. Goes into affect much sooner. The pills were actually doing her good but I was concerned about the "piling" effect and her getting an over dose kind of. Whatever the case she has been HUNGRY and has gained 4 lbs since starting the meds! I asked him if this will be lifelong and he said no. He said probably around June she'll be able to come off of the meds. I understand that she's not as bad as some but I was under the impression that this doesn't just resolve itself(I pray it does though!). I guess time will tell.



In the meantime I have her an appointment to see a cardiologist about POTS. However, since she has started eating better and more frequently the lightheaded episodes have seemed to go away. I'm thinking it may have been her sugar being wonky since she wasn't able to eat consistently.


As for my youngest, I am awaiting a call from the the nearest rheumy. She actually has an appointment with one in Birmingham(4 hours away)but they didn't have any availability until June 😮. So we are waiting to hear back from Pensacola in hopes that they can pull some strings. If they can't work any quicker I think I'm going to contact Tulane. On the east side of Alabama the nearest Rheumy after Pensacola is Orlando. So I'm going to try on the west side.


The gi told me that he would not be giving Em MTX, not unless it was the scenario he gave before(she built an antibody to Entyvio). He said he'd rather the rheumatologist give it to her and monitor her than for him to because he just does not feel comfortable giving her the MTX with another immunosuppressant. I am going to read up on it tonight.
 
Gastroparesis can go away. If it's triggered by an illness (virus, infection) then it often resolves after a few months. But other times it does stick around, and she will need to be on meds for the long-term if that's the case.

Glad her tests are normal and the liquid Erythromycin is working. The tech should not have made fun of her - even if she's 14, she's still a kid!

MTX is used often by GIs now. Honestly, it is standard to use a biologic with an immunosuppressant especially after the kiddo has built up antibodies to one biologic. The immunosuppressant they use now is MTX most often since the cancer risks are higher with Imuran/6MP.

If he only uses MTX after she's already built antibodies to Entyvio, then she will have only one biologic left - Stelara. She's pretty young and biologics are not approved that quickly. It might be a couple years before there are more approved.

You want her to stay on each drug as long as possible.

I would still consider a second opinion GI, if that is possible. You can even do a record review at some children's hospitals, so you don't have to travel. Since she is a complicated and a rare case, I would do it at one of the big IBD centers - Boston Children's, CHOP or Cincinnati Children's.
 
^^^^ yeah to all of that
Ds was dx with gastroparesis in 2015
And it's still here !!!

Waiting until you form antibodies is too late
The odds the med will continue to work after you form antibodies is slim and odds of forming antibodies is high if you have proven to have done this not once but twice
Adding mtx at that point doesn't help much at all

please get a second opinion
Gastroparesis typically does not go away
Unless she was very sick and it started

And
Mtx is given in a baby dose to stop antibodies from forming
 

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