C. diff??

[Essieluv]

Is it possible to contract C. diff while on Cipro/Flagyl? I've been on the two for a couple months, on and off. This last week has been really rough, though. I started having diarrhea 6-7 times a day, and nothing makes it stop. That might not sound like a lot, but it is to me because I usually struggle with constipation. And, sorry if this is TMI, but my poo has been smelling like chemicals. Just straight up chemicals.:stinks: This started with when the D did. I also have nausea, and pretty bad bloating. Should I call my doc and ask for a stool test to be done, or do you think it's just a fluke?

 

[nogutsnoglory]

Unfortunately and fortunately C. Diff can be caused by in some cases and treated by antibiotics like Cipro and Flagyl.

"Clostridium difficile causes most serious antibiotic-associated diarrhea. The bacterium responsible for almost all cases of pseudomembranous colitis and many instances of severe antibiotic-associated diarrhea is C. difficile. Most people acquire a C. difficile infection during a stay in a hospital or nursing home after they've received antibiotics." http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antibiotic-associated-diarrhea/DS00454/DSECTION=causes

I think a stool test definitely makes sense because even if not C. Diff you may have som else going on and it's better to be on the safe side.

 

[Essieluv]

Unfortunately and fortunately C. Diff can be caused by in some cases and treated by antibiotics like Cipro and Flagyl. QUOTE]

See, that is why I was hesitant to point the finger at C. diff.

 

[kiny]

Dunno, you can get C. Diff with or without antibiotics. It's especially wide spectrum antibiotics that kill both gram + and gram - that cause issues.

Antibiotics are just the enabler that depletes part of the intestinal flora so C diff has time to grow, the cause is touching a door handle in a clinic or touching a toilet seat or touching someone's hand even, C diff spores can last for days in almost any environment.

The test for C Diff takes only a few days, so I would do it if that makes you feel better. The D isn't the dangers of C Diff, it's the toxins it creates and the chance for bacterial overgrowth which can lead to toxic megacolon. So make sure you get help.

 

[Ihurt]

I would definitely ask your doctor to do a stool test just to make sure. Also I would start taking High doses of probiotics as well to restore your gut flora. There is one probiotic that is especially good for helping with C-diff and that is called Florastor. Whenever you have to take antibiotics you really should also be taking high doses of probiotics which contain many strains of bacteria. Flagyl usually is not one that causes C-diff( they use this to treat C-diff in a lot of cases), but Cipro can cause it since it is a broad spectrum antibiotic.

I hope you get it under control soon and start to feel better soon....

 

[Essieluv]

Thanks everyone, I guess I'll be making a few phone calls in the morning. Now, here's my follow-up question: which doctor should I call. My CRS prescribed the antibiotics, but should I call my GI for the stool test since it's more of a GI issue? My CRS has been treating me for years, whereas I just transferred to my current GI a few weeks ago. I could have my PCP order a stool test, but that could be potentially confusing for all involved. I'm a little overwhelmed, and not sure who I should call. Does it even matter? I just don't want to overcomplicate things...

 

[nogutsnoglory]

Either doctor can order a stool test so I think it's a matter of comfort and convenience for you.

 

[plaidknitter]

I just got dx-ed with c diff, and they put me on flagyl to treat it. My GI did the stool test, but after I got dx-ed another member of my household got tested too since she was also having stomach problems. She had it done through the primary care since they had openings available fastest/closest, and the results will be sent to her GI.

 

[Ihurt]

C-diff is very contagious, but usually only people who are taking or have taken antibiotics recently are at risk of getting it. Also, it is important to take High doses probiotics when taking antibiotics of any kind.

 

[gingerbr]

I am an RN and was diagnosed with Crohns about 15 years ago, I currently am on Remicade infusion/APRISO and Entocort. I have had C-Diff several times, the last time was in January and it did not clear up until May at which point I had to have a Fecal Transplant to get rid of it. Yes, it is contagious but what most people fail to understand is that you cannot acquire C-Diff just from being around a person with it. You have to actually come in contact with their stool, or something that their stool has come in contact with. Example - if somebody with C-Diff touches a door knob and you also touch the door knob the only way you are going to get C-Diff is if there was stool on on the door knob - it could be microscopic stool - but C-Diff is not airborne contagious.

 

[Ihurt]

and the only thing that can actually kill C-diff is bleach. Hand sanitizer and Lysol are powerless against it from what I have heard.

Ginger: If you don't mind me asking, who did you find to perform the fecal transplant? I know I asked my GI about Fecal transplants in terms of other GI disorders and he said not many doctors offer the fecal transplants. I would hope I never get C-diff, but I have been on low dose antibitoics for some time now and always fear of coming down with it. I do take tons of probiotics but not sure if this will even prevent it.... If I ever did get it, the fecal transplant is the way I would want to go. I would NOT want to take the antibiotics they use to try and get rid of it as they do not work very well from all I have read. I hear the FT is the best way. Not sure they even offer that here in Chicago Il though....

I am an RN and was diagnosed with Crohns about 15 years ago, I currently am on Remicade infusion/APRISO and Entocort. I have had C-Diff several times, the last time was in January and it did not clear up until May at which point I had to have a Fecal Transplant to get rid of it. Yes, it is contagious but what most people fail to understand is that you cannot acquire C-Diff just from being around a person with it. You have to actually come in contact with their stool, or something that their stool has come in contact with. Example - if somebody with C-Diff touches a door knob and you also touch the door knob the only way you are going to get C-Diff is if there was stool on on the door knob - it could be microscopic stool - but C-Diff is not airborne contagious.

 

[gingerbr]

John Hopkins University in Baltimore does fecal transplants

 

[Essieluv]

I sent in a stool test yesterday to my doctor, so hopefully I will get the results soon. I'll probably have to wait till Monday, though I hope I don't have C.diff, but I don't know what I will do if I don't. This diarrhea isn't going away, and Imodium isn't doing a thing!

 

[Patricia56]

Be sure to stay well hydrated. Sure sounds like c-diff to me.

If your diarrhea increases to 10+ stools in 3 hours or very bloody stools, you develop severe belly pain, you start to have significant swelling (look like you're pregnant), a high fever of 103+ you should go to ER.

Clean all hard surfaces with bleach solution and wash hands thoroughly with soap and water frequently. c-diff is a spore and can be washed off your hands by agitation with soapy water. Wash all clothes that have been in contact with you along with bedding and furniture covers once you begin treatment.

Flagyl is the typical first treatment but you're already on it so I'm not sure what they will do. They may go to vancomycin which I believe has to be given IV. Not sure - maybe someone who's recently been treated can confirm that.

Most labs now use a 24 hour c-diff test that will definitely be back to your physician by Monday. Depending on the lab they may call your doctor over the weekend if it tests positive.

 

[gingerbr]

Vancomycin can be given oral (either capsules or liquid), it can also be given intravenous and rectal.

 

[Ihurt]

Vancomycin has to be taken orally to kill C-diff. It is useless when used in an IV in terms of treating C-diff. It has to be the oral one. There is a C-diff forum you can join I believe. When I was first having all the intestinal pains I have, I found that forum and learned a lot about C-diff from that forum. That is where I read that IV oral vanco will Not be effective, you have to have the oral version. I hope you do not have it, but if you do, the quicker you get treated the better I would guess..

 

[2thFairy]

UT Southwestern in Dallas does fecal transplants also.

 

[gingerbr]

Vancomycin has to be taken orally to kill C-diff. It is useless when used in an IV in terms of treating C-diff. It has to be the oral one. There is a C-diff forum you can join I believe. When I was first having all the intestinal pains I have, I found that forum and learned a lot about C-diff from that forum. That is where I read that IV oral vanco will Not be effective, you have to have the oral version. I hope you do not have it, but if you do, the quicker you get treated the better I would guess..

This is not true, I cannot take any medication orally and Vancomycin was given to me via rectum.

 

[Ahumado]

The test for C diff is not called the stool test. There are two tests. C diff toxin
which is a rapid test and results are available in 15 minutes. A more accurate and specific test is C diff by PCR ( polymerase chain reaction). It is preferable to be tested by the latter and while results are not as rapidly obtained there is no reason to wait longer than overnight.

C diff cannot be caused by antibiotics. It is caused by contact to C diff. Wash your hands and don't pick you nose

 

[gingerbr]

You are VERY wrong. C-Diff can and usually is caused by antibiotics. Antibiotics give you diarrhea and wipe out the good bacteria.

 

[Ihurt]

Antibiotics themselves do not cause C-diff, that is true. BUT, they wipe out your gut flora so that if by chance you are exposed to C-diff, you can get it very easily. A person who is not on or recently been on antibiotics does not usually contract C-diff.

 

[Ahumado]

You are VERY wrong. C-Diff can and usually is caused by antibiotics. Antibiotics give you diarrhea and wipe out the good bacteria.

And lead turns to gold

 

[2thFairy]

And lead turns to gold

Sweet! How long does it take to change? :ylol2:

 

[Ahumado]

Antibiotics themselves do not cause C-diff, that is true. BUT, they wipe out your gut flora so that if by chance you are exposed to C-diff, you can get it very easily. A person who is not on or recently been on antibiotics does not usually contract C-diff.

Your statement is more accurate than ginger's but you forgot to add that immune response and general health is more important. If antibiotics caused such problems they would be banned. Imagine gut flora "wiped out" people wouldn't be able to digest anything.

 

[Ahumado]

Sweet! How long does it take to change? :ylol2:

Your smile is infectious (in a good way) !!

 

[Ihurt]

Yes, it is true, the immune response does play an important role, that is true. But, they would never Ban antibiotics, even if they killed people! Hell, there are drugs on the market now that kill people and they are still giving them out. Why do you think they have all these advertisements on TV from law firms suing these drug companies due to horrid adverse reactions people have had? Also, they actually do put on the leaflets you get at your pharmacy the side effects and the potential to contract C-diff whenever you take an antibiotic. They have to put it on there because it does happen. It is kind of a cover their ass kind of thing. I mean they figure, hey, we put it on there as a possible risk so if anything happens, it is at the patients risk.

If you think about it, one the most complained about ailments and reasons for doctor visits today all involve the digestive tract. I mean so many people have a messed up GI tract, whether it be from IBS, crohns, infections, Gerd, etc. And what is the one medication that is mostly prescribed? Antibiotics!

I mean I myself have had to be on low dose antibiotics for a few years now because I was getting Nasty UTI's so bad. I will say that my GI issues started due to those antibiotics, for that I am pretty certain. No matter how many issues antibiotics cause, they will not Ban them. Unfortunately they are like the blessing and the curse. They save lives, but then again, they also cause a lot of damage as well.... It is a no win sometimes.

Your statement is more accurate than ginger's but you forgot to add that immune response and general health is more important. If antibiotics caused such problems they would be banned. Imagine gut flora "wiped out" people wouldn't be able to digest anything.

 

[Ahumado]

Yes, it is true, the immune response does play an important role, that is true. But, they would never Ban antibiotics, even if they killed people! Hell, there are drugs on the market now that kill people and they are still giving them out. Why do you think they have all these advertisements on TV from law firms suing these drug companies due to horrid adverse reactions people have had? Also, they actually do put on the leaflets you get at your pharmacy the side effects and the potential to contract C-diff whenever you take an antibiotic. They have to put it on there because it does happen. It is kind of a cover their ass kind of thing. I mean they figure, hey, we put it on there as a possible risk so if anything happens, it is at the patients risk.

If you think about it, one the most complained about ailments and reasons for doctor visits today all involve the digestive tract. I mean so many people have a messed up GI tract, whether it be from IBS, crohns, infections, Gerd, etc. And what is the one medication that is mostly prescribed? Antibiotics!

I mean I myself have had to be on low dose antibiotics for a few years now because I was getting Nasty UTI's so bad. I will say that my GI issues started due to those antibiotics, for that I am pretty certain. No matter how many issues antibiotics cause, they will not Ban them. Unfortunately they are like the blessing and the curse. They save lives, but then again, they also cause a lot of damage as well.... It is a no win sometimes.

I like your post. There are too many prescription medications on the market today. They all have adverse effects. Seems I am always in a constant state of Azathioprine fog

There are many people with digestive problems. I would like to know how many were/are caused by the food supply and not some random genetic predisposition. Lots of real crappy eaters out there. I am raising my hand:smile:

My father was a gastroenterologist. He trained back in the dark ages which meant he learned treatments that were more "simple" some effective, some not so. I guess those methods are mostly lost. Modern Medicine is better "produces more of the desired effect" but not all of it is necessary....Brain hurt? Get an MRI. And don't ever forget that it is called practicing medicine. These Docs today don't have the time or luxury to spend half an hour with a patient let alone an hour like my Dad did. Medicine is corporate and with Obabma now in charge it will get worse....What this means is that Docs have to have a fast answer for you so they follow the accepted and prescribed course as outlined by the company they work for, what insurance pays for(maybe) and what the government says makes sense. Antibiotics.. anyone? anyone? BTW antibiotics work and I am glad.

 

[Ihurt]

Very very true indeed! Yes, doctors use to spend quality of time with their patients back in day. Heck, they even made house calls! That was when Practicing medicine was "really practicing medicine". You are so right, nowadays doctors spend what, 15 minutes max with a patient? They rely on tests too much and some of these tests are not even all that accurate unfortunately. I mean no question things have come a long way with all the technology we have access to. But really we are still so far behind and primitive when you think about it. I remember when I was having Urinary tract issues and I was talking to my old gastroenterologist about it. I was telling him how disappointed I was in my urologist at the time. My gastro doc said to me, you know, we as gastroenterologists are way behind, we don't know anything really, and then he said, I hate to say it, but urology is like 30 years behind us!!

I am not sure what to think about the whole Obamacare thing. I on one hand think that health care should be free to all, period! But I don't like how the whole Obamacare thing is going in terms of insurance companies now are denying coverage for certain things due the Obamacare. Also, rates are going sky high now. I have a $540 dollar lab bill now that I have to pay out of pocket. My Blue Cross Blue shield denied payment and I also I am on a disability, and they denied payment too. So I have to pay. This is new to me. My labs all use to be covered. My doctors office said it has something to do with the new Obamacare. She said a lot of people have been complaining that their insurance is not covering certain things anymore.

I don't know, my hubby is a huge star trek fan Lol. He said things would be better if we ran our world like that. Everyone is treated equal, health care is free, and everyone has their own job in society and the sick are taken care of... I guess we can only dream right

I like your post. There are too many prescription medications on the market today. They all have adverse effects. Seems I am always in a constant state of Azathioprine fog

There are many people with digestive problems. I would like to know how many were/are caused by the food supply and not some random genetic predisposition. Lots of real crappy eaters out there. I am raising my hand:smile:

My father was a gastroenterologist. He trained back in the dark ages which meant he learned treatments that were more "simple" some effective, some not so. I guess those methods are mostly lost. Modern Medicine is better "produces more of the desired effect" but not all of it is necessary....Brain hurt? Get an MRI. And don't ever forget that it is called practicing medicine. These Docs today don't have the time or luxury to spend half an hour with a patient let alone an hour like my Dad did. Medicine is corporate and with Obabma now in charge it will get worse....What this means is that Docs have to have a fast answer for you so they follow the accepted and prescribed course as outlined by the company they work for, what insurance pays for(maybe) and what the government says makes sense. Antibiotics.. anyone? anyone? BTW antibiotics work and I am glad.

 

[gingerbr]

Everybody has differant problems, is on a differant course of meds and all have been through totally differant situations. Furthermore, there is not a cure for Crohns disease or C-Diff, it is all trial and error, which is the reason for a 'forum'.
I wish you all the best and hope that you find a successful solution to this horrible disease.

 

[Ahumado]

Everybody has differant problems, is on a differant course of meds and all have been through totally differant situations. Furthermore, there is not a cure for Crohns disease or C-Diff, it is all trial and error, which is the reason for a 'forum'.
I wish you all the best and hope that you find a successful solution to this horrible disease.

If someone has had Clostridium difficle, endures the antibiotic treatment then tests negative I would call that cured. I wish you the best as well.

 

[Essieluv]

I got the results back. Negative for C. diff, but fecal lactoferrin was positive. So I'm flaring, great. I've been put on a clear liquid diet and restarted cipro/flagyl. If it doesn't help I don't know what's going to happen, maybe prednisone...

 

[Ahumado]

I got the results back. Negative for C. diff, but fecal lactoferrin was positive. So I'm flaring, great. I've been put on a clear liquid diet and restarted cipro/flagyl. If it doesn't help I don't know what's going to happen, maybe prednisone...

Sorry to hear that. Clue me in though. I had not read or heard of lactoferrin til I read your post and followed the link. Your Doc put you on antibiotics but what for? Was there a stool culture done? On the linked page to lactoferrin in your post I only read what the test can rule out. Is IBD definetly caused by bacteria. Thanks. Best of luck with your treatment, Chin Up.

 

[Clash]

Sorry to hear that, Essieluv. I hope you get the flare under control quickly.

Ahumado, antibiotics are sometimes used when treating a flare due to the fact that inflamed tissue can get infected with food, feces and such moving across it. Also some antibiotics have anti-inflammatory properties. Lactoferrin and calprotectin can test the level of inflammation in your GI tract, which can be a better indicator of a flare for some whose inflammation doesn't show up in inflammatory markers of lab work, such as CRP or SED/ESR. Both lactoferrin test and calprotectin test are stool tests.

 

[Essieluv]

Sorry to hear that, Essieluv. I hope you get the flare under control quickly.

Ahumado, antibiotics are sometimes used when treating a flare due to the fact that inflamed tissue can get infected with food, feces and such moving across it. Also some antibiotics have anti-inflammatory properties. Lactoferrin and calprotectin can test the level of inflammation in your GI tract, which can be a better indicator of a flare for some whose inflammation doesn't show up in inflammatory markers of lab work, such as CRP or SED/ESR. Both lactoferrin test and calprotectin test are stool tests.

Exactly! I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Ahumado]

Sorry to hear that, Essieluv. I hope you get the flare under control quickly.

Ahumado, antibiotics are sometimes used when treating a flare due to the fact that inflamed tissue can get infected with food, feces and such moving across it. Also some antibiotics have anti-inflammatory properties. Lactoferrin and calprotectin can test the level of inflammation in your GI tract, which can be a better indicator of a flare for some whose inflammation doesn't show up in inflammatory markers of lab work, such as CRP or SED/ESR. Both lactoferrin test and calprotectin test are stool tests.

The ESR is a useless test and the CRP is better but too non-specific. I am a Medical Technologist and we often remark that asking the patient how they feel is more useful than ESR but it endures and the hospital earns a nice profit.

Thanks for the educational reply

 

[Clash]

I agree Ahumado, ESR is usually not useful, for some CRP can be really useful but has the limitation of picking up inflammation from any source in the body. My son's inflammatory markers have never shown the severity of the inflammation but fecal calprotectin has been a really good indicator. He also has the advantage of having had a fecal calprotectin stool test done at the same time as an MRE and colonoscopy.

Fecal calprotectin is used most often here I believe but is not usually covered by insurance so it is an out of pocket expense for most.

 

[Ihurt]

Oh yeah, I have had my Sed rate and C-reactive protein checked before several time in the last 10 years and it goes up and down. I had one doctor tell me that anything can raise these levels. He said they only worry when they are extremely high. Funny thing is that when I had them checked in the past, they were elevated and I had no GI issues at the time really. Now when I am having awful issues, they are normal.. Go figure. So to me, they are not that reliable. Most tests are not from what I have experienced Lol.

 

[UnXmas]

Oh yeah, I have had my Sed rate and C-reactive protein checked before several time in the last 10 years and it goes up and down. I had one doctor tell me that anything can raise these levels. He said they only worry when they are extremely high. Funny thing is that when I had them checked in the past, they were elevated and I had no GI issues at the time really. Now when I am having awful issues, they are normal.. Go figure. So to me, they are not that reliable. Most tests are not from what I have experienced Lol.

My CRP correlates well to when I had an impacted bowel, and episodes of stomach pain, very low blood pressure and fever. I never found the exact causes of the pain and fevers (I always have stomach discomfort, but usually not severe pain), but the CRP was always raised when I had pain and not when I was pain-free, so perhaps it does indicate something of significance, it's just that it's not specific. My doctors (and the A&E staff) were always concerned when my CRP was high, even when they didn't know what was causing it to be raised. I was admitted as an emergency on the basis of the raised CRP, high temperature and low blood pressure. Perhaps my CRP was very high, maybe? I never knew the exact numbers.

 

[Ihurt]

Wow, that is interesting. I know I have had elevated levels on and off for years( even before I started having bad intestinal pains). I am not sure what they consider high, maybe yours was really high? I know when my labs would come back the doctor would just say my Sed rate and C-protein was elevated. The doctor just fluffed it off saying that lots of things can raise these levels. He made it seem like you could have the common cold and it would elevate. I am glad at least your doctors seemed to take it serious. Maybe if I had presented with fever and high WBC then they would have acted different, I don't know.











:stinks:

My CRP correlates well to when I had an impacted bowel, and episodes of stomach pain, very low blood pressure and fever. I never found the exact causes of the pain and fevers (I always have stomach discomfort, but usually not severe pain), but the CRP was always raised when I had pain and not when I was pain-free, so perhaps it does indicate something of significance, it's just that it's not specific. My doctors (and the A&E staff) were always concerned when my CRP was high, even when they didn't know what was causing it to be raised. I was admitted as an emergency on the basis of the raised CRP, high temperature and low blood pressure. Perhaps my CRP was very high, maybe? I never knew the exact numbers.

 

[Jajabinks]

I just got dx-ed with c diff, and they put me on flagyl to treat it. My GI did the stool test, but after I got dx-ed another member of my household got tested too since she was also having stomach problems. She had it done through the primary care since they had openings available fastest/closest, and the results will be sent to her GI.

Did your household member test positive? I'm worried about my son.