Crohn's & Intelligence

[LondonSnow]

When I was very young, between 5-10, I was reasonably well built and healthy for my age. I was academically years ahead of where I was supposed to be. I'm definitely not boasting here, I recognise that academic achievement isn't the bottom line with intelligence, but for the sake of this thread that's what we'll be referring to academic ability as.

As I hit my teenage years, I started having issues with my weight. I ate unholy amounts of food, I absolutely pigged out at meals, but I wouldn't put anything on. At school, I slowly lost my lead, and my performance became a lot more normal... and it stayed there, while what was expected of me just getting more and more demanding.

I've noticed the decline for a while now. Basic mental arithmetic that I used to be able to solve in a moment takes me ages now. I can never concentrate on anything for too long; I'm easily distracted and easily bored. Books, hell even video games struggle to hold my attention anymore. I pause films halfway through to make a cup of tea because I feel like stretching my legs.

I'm not going to call myself an idiot (that's your jobs ) but I feel like something went wrong, and I can't help but feel that so many issues in my life share that one root cause.

So what about all of you? Did you notice anything going on upstairs in the lead up to your first incident? For those of you that've managed remission, has your mind been clearer at all?

 

[SarahBear]

I'm not entirely sure how to answer this poll, to be honest.

I have noticed that I have more concentration issues during flares. I think it's part being distracted by feeling awful and part mental fogginess. I think fatigue is a big factor in this. So yes, in a way, it has affected my mental functions.

However, I don't feel that I'm less mentally capable than before. I can push past the fogginess when necessary; it might be a little more of a struggle to get things done, but I can do it. I absolutely don't feel as if it has changed my intelligence level in any way. I don't think that's what you're asking though - you're talking more about the concentration issues, correct?

I didn't have those issues with my first flare (before and when I was diagnosed) until I started taking Prednisone and had severe insomnia. Because of this, I couldn't concentrate at all and I can barely remember that time period. Pred can do this even without the insomnia issues, I believe. So I'm wondering if you're taking any steroids?

 

[KWalker]

That's similar to what I was thinking as well. It is scientifically proven that learning disabilities and mental disorders don't even correlate with a low intelligence so personally I don't believe a physical disability could make a difference. However, like SarahBear said your medication could certainly impact things like fatigue, alertness, etc which could technically correlate to intelligence.

I could write forever on intelligence but to put it short, its nearly impossible to define intelligence.

 

[LondonSnow]

I agree with intelligence not being a straightforward concept you can stick onto a number line, and I'm oversimplifying in the title. Thing is, this is as far removed from being a scientific study as you can get, and I'm really just asking this all be taken at face value so I can find out if others with Crohn's have had issues thinking in ways they used to be capable of, issues which aren't caused by the anxiety and frustration of the BMs, cramps, bloating etc. I'm definitely not setting out to offend anybody by stating that 'diminished attention span = stupid'.

Sarah, besides the Asacol (which is non-systemic) I'm drug free.

Maybe I'm getting a little to anxious to lump all my health problems into one disease for simplicity's sake. I suppose next I'll be posting a thread wondering if my need for glasses is connected to Crohn's...

 

[KWalker]

And I think its just that, like you said with the glasses and having crohns. People everywhere are trying to find links between certain diseases/disorders but I think its important to consider that today, things aren't what they were 50 years ago even. Look at all the people that wear glasses now compared to then, the same can be said for crohns, mental disorders, etc.

I see what you're talking about with crohns and a lower attention span and that's good that you take it upon yourself to try and find correlations or similarities. One explanation I could think of for a person with crohns to have a harder time maintaining concentration is possibly because the added stress that crohns brings so that could be on their mind, there are more occurences of an individual not feeling well and therefore making things harder, etc.

I personally don't think it is as much a biological issue as it could be somebody accomodating to their illness and therefore having a harder time with other things

 

[SarahBear]

I don't think you're offending anyone, LondonSnow! It's just a tricky question to answer. I'm still not entirely certain what to vote, because I do have concentration issues but I'm not completely certain what is causing them.

When did your problems begin? I don't see anything saying that Asacol can cause these types of things (mostly just headache, nausea, dizziness, etc.), but it's still possible that it might be having some sort of an effect. You've been having this problem longer than you've been taking it, right? Have you had your vitamin levels checked? That could be a factor, as well. Are you fatigued? Stress could probably do this, too.

Sorry for the interrogation there!

ETA: I see KWalker and I are on the same page here, haha.

 

[DustyKat]

My children haven't experienced what you are referring to except when flaring. So now they are in remission their abilities are as they have always been. That being said my daughter had an attitude change as opposed to an ability change. Her road to diagnosis was a long and rocky one and she did very nearly lose her life. Where she was once driven and competitive full stop she has since channelled that into what she passionate about, she doesn't stress the small stuff anymore.

I was able to observe my son much more closely as he was attending both school and university so I was more involved in his day to day student activities. When he was diagnosed and very unwell his ability didn't diminish as such but his ability to concentrate was directly affected by the effect the CD was having on him both physically and psychologically. He does put high standards on himself and as a result he did drop back to one unit per semester at uni that year because in his words in regard to dropped units...he would not be able to complete them to his satisfaction.

I hope that makes sense!

Dusty.

 

[DustyKat]

I should have added there that it wasn't only concentration that was a problem for them but also lethargy, by that I mean they both had trouble keeping up with the physical requirements of being at school all day.

Dusty. xxx

 

[KWalker]

Yeah LondonSnow, you're not offending anybody. We encourage open conversations on here that allow people to think critically! Feel free to ask any other questions or make polls whenever you need too.

I believe there's a few threads around with people questioning things like crohns and aspergers or crohns and anxiety, adhd, etc that might interest you. While I don't think there are any actual licensed doctors on here but it can be really interesting to read some peoples thoughts and experiences.

 

[LondonSnow]

Good to hear I haven't stepped on anyone's toes. The last thing I want to do is insult you guys through a poor choice of words. :ghug:

Sarah, you're right, this isn't a new thing to me so much as a trend I've been following over the past four or so years. I should've emphasised that (or mentioned it, I've forgotten if I even did that) in the OP, so my bad there.

Although my diagnosis happened last week and my sickness only kicked into gear around late spring/summer, my history's consistent with my having this condition for a lot longer than that. Constant mouth ulcers as an early teenager, dark circles under my eyes, a low weight that wouldn't (and still won't) budge in spite of a healthy diet, the usual.

Fatigue... when I was around 15/16 I visited my GP about feeling tired all the time. She told me to visit the hospital and get a blood test done to check for anaemia, which I never did because I was young and scared silly of needles. But yeah, even now I can still sleep for up to 18 hours if I don't make an active decision to get out of bed, but I never feel as energetic or as refreshed as I feel I should. I rarely go past 12 hours of sleep these days. Can't say I've ever had my vitamin levels checked out, either.

Walker, cheers for the heads up. I'll see where the search bar takes me!

 

[DustyKat]

If you have disease in your ileum then you may well have some deficiencies happening that will impact significantly on your day to day functioning. I would recommend you have the following blood tests done for starters:

FBC (Full Blood Count)
UEC's (Urea, Electrolytes, Creatinine)
LFT's (Liver Function Tests)
ESR & CRP (Inflammatory Markers)
B12
Folate
Iron Studies
Vit D

 

[Kev]

Well, personally speaking, I've noticed that every severe bout of diarrhea I suffered was immediately followed by a drop in IQ. Perhaps my gray matter is actually more brownish???

Seriously, for a moment, I've noticed that overall, my mental faculties are nowhere near where they were pre-disease. Fogginess, memory lapses, struggle to concentrate, to keep focus... that sort of thing. True, my energy levels are in the proverbial toilet, and these aspects have not improved tho LDN has kept my disease in check. Whether there may be an underlying aspect of malabsorption going on... or simply that fighting this off has cost my body in ways that I can't claw back... I dunno. Was a time when I could visualize 144 node network in my head... now I struggle to visualize a cellphone keypad.
Whether that is part of the disease, part of the aging process, or a combination of both escapes me. I do know that some fundamental changes occured with my disease. Back in the day... 1st coffee break I'd grab the paper, whip thru the crossword puzzle in ink, and have time left out of 15 minutes to have another coffee. And I could spell. Correctly even. These days.. or at least since my health originally went south, I have no interest in crossword puzzles. Or Rubiks Cube. I could solve one of those in about 20 minutes (not record setting, but still solved)... Now it is just another paperweight.
So, is it all mental accuity? Or perspective? Or simply that Crohns is a lifechanger, maybe in ways we've yet to discover? Like, I wonder if some aspect of this disease is actually rooted in our brains somewhere? Afterall, it somehow short circuits our immune system. right? Maybe, tho we tend to focus on the tract between mouth and anus, the disease might embed key parts of itself in our gray matter. Maybe my joke isn't so funny. (OK, it definitely isn't funny... but there may also be a modicum of truth within it)

 

[Grumbletum]

I should have added there that it wasn't only concentration that was a problem for them but also lethargy, by that I mean they both had trouble keeping up with the physical requirements of being at school all day.

Dusty. xxx

Yes, me too, where it was a new job in new field for me ( finance .......eeek! ) Also, in the period prior to diagnosis, being in constant pain and also worried about what was actually wrong with me certainly affected my concentration.
Post diagnosis, Pred seemed to make me totally loopy and I am now blaming my frequent memory lapses on anaesthesia ( colonoscopies, surgery ) ..... or maybe it's just my age?
I'm making light of it a bit, but to be honest, it did concern me a lot. However, post surgery, with virtually no Crohn's symptoms and currently on no meds, I have noticed a massive improvement in my ability to focus and in my energy levels, so am therefore more confident about tasks I have to tackle.

 

[stefan]

This it a tough one, I definitely think the disease and treatment has caused a significant drop in cognitive function for me, but it's still pretty hard to quantify. I did actually see a neuropsychologist about this, and he concluded there was likely no physical or long term damage, or anything more sinister going on. As expected, he concluded that due to my illness & treatment, it was simply as if my brain was running like a computer does when it's underclocked to 40% -- an analogy that actually holds fairly well when considering multitasking and rendering graphics.

For me, I got sick between high school & uni, and went from a high achiever that got in to my engineering degree of choice at my preferred uni, to now struggling to pass any of my subjects. I always thought my biggest assets as a student were my good memory, ability to multitask well, good spatial/visualisation skills, and being quick & having good instincts solving problems, but all of these have definitely been hit in a big way since I got sick.

We discovered that my memory before I got sick is still impeccable, but I have trouble committing things to memory, so first year uni subjects were fairly easy for me, but afterwards it's been getting much harder, which is the complete opposite to most of my classmates. For example with memory, I can still remember formulae I haven't used since year 12 at school nearly a decade ago, but I could probably only remember 10-20% of the useful formulae I've been using over the past year at uni.

So it's a definite yes for me, but where we draw the line between what's due to illness and treatment is a tough one, especially for me on methotrexate.

 

[JMC]

It's hard to say what impact it has had on me intellectually as I have only had the chance to live one version of my life - the one with Crohn's disease. I finished university with a first class honours degree and a PhD in quantum physics, so could not really have achieved much more.

Compared with my peers, the issue was not the impact on my intellect, but on my energy levels, I simply cannot work as hard or as for long as some of the people around me. I think that has limited what I have achieved in my career, but I have adapted over time to get the best out of myself and accept my limitations.

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

I don't really know how to answer the poll either but I get where you're coming from. LondonSnow, I can relate a lot to what you say in your first post. As a toddler, I tested off the charts in terms of intelligence. Where I lived, the city or county (?) would send a social worker around to all the 18 month olds to test their intelligence. When she showed a picture of a dog, most kids would say "doggie" or "woof woof". I said "collie" (it was a collie too!). I don't know what my IQ registered at but it was definitely at the high end at that time. I was not a genius or anything, but was definitely above average intelligence. I learned pretty quickly on in school that I didn't need to work very hard to get good grades, so I slacked a lot and still did well. By the time I was in college, I had worked out just how many classes I could sleep though and still pass the class. Maybe too smart for my own good or at least manipulating the system to my advantage!

I developed this IBD or whatever it is (still not fully diagnosed) just before I turned 30, and around that time, my memory went to crap. I feel stupid often, not because I'm not intelligent, but because I can't forget if I just did something. I will leave the house to go to work, get in my car, and then am not able to remember if I locked the house and it was literally 10 seconds ago. I sometimes can't remember if I took my meds either (like you said, I'm only on Asacol for the IBD - I'm also on Nexium & Zantac for GERD, Amitriptyline 25 mg to prevent migraines, and Nuvaring for birth control). I'm in remission so I don't know if it's the IBD or if I'm just getting old (I'm 33 ha ha so I hope that's not it!). So I would say my intelligence is intact but my memory is garbage since developing IBD, particularly my short-term memory.

I will say, as far as intelligence and bowel issues are concerned, I have been wondering lately if I might have Asperger's. I am a social trainwreck, don't make eye contact, prefer to be alone, am very resistant to change, etc. I fit a lot of the criteria for Asperger's but haven't been brave enough to be tested for it yet. But, Aspies tend to be very intelligent, and people on the autism spectrum often have bowel issues, so I am wondering if Asperger's might be the common thread for me. I just have to gather the courage to get tested...

Oh, and some of this may be genetic too. My maternal grandfather (who died before I was born) apparently was only 2 IQ points away from being a genius, and he had bowel problems too - he died of colon cancer and had a "sensitive stomach" his whole life (possibly undiagnosed IBD or undiagnosed celiac).

 

[LondonSnow]

Cheers for the responses guys. Kat, I'll take that list with my the next time I visit my gastro to see if those tests were included in the battery test they last carried out, and I'll talk the doc into doing them if not. I already know that my LFTs are worryingly elevated, though.

Cat, you too with the door locks? I lock my door really slowly, stare at it, tug the handle a few times and end up forgetting whether I've done it anyway. I mean, I remember locking the door in general, but I don't know if I'm remembering the right day if that makes any sense? Sometimes I throw in little mental 'signatures' for that day. I might a little symbol next to the handle with my finger and memorise that to tell myself 'today is different', when I do that I'm usually fine.

The worst part is how every time I return to my flat to check if I locked the door I always find I have. I'm pretty sure I've skipped doses when I thought I was avoiding a double dose more than a few times, too. What's bizzarre about my memory is how good it is in the long term; give me one minute to memorise a phone number and I'll know it for life. Tell me to remind you to do something in an hour and I'll forget our conversation ever happened.

I'm pretty reclusive myself. Nothing like I used to be, but being around people still feels like something that takes energy and effort and sometimes I just can't be arsed. I didn't know about the connection between autism and IBD, though, that's pretty cool. I mean it's terrible, but interesting too.

 

[SarahBear]

I lock my door really slowly, stare at it, tug the handle a few times and end up forgetting whether I've done it anyway. I mean, I remember locking the door in general, but I don't know if I'm remembering the right day if that makes any sense?

I do things like that, too. With my car payment, most notably. I'll remember that I made a payment, but I can't sort out if that was last month or this month. Luckily, I always seem to get it done!

To be honest, I contribute that to fatigue, which in turn I contribute to Crohn's. My job bumped me up from three days a week to five in late September / early August. With the fatigue, all the stomach issues, and school, it wasn't working out. I was completely exhausted all of the time. That's when the problems remembering things really kicked in, and now that I'm back down to three days a week again, I seem to be doing better.

I have forgotten things like you described as long as I can remember - but not nearly as bad as when I was working full-time. I don't consider myself unintelligent, but I do seem to think slowly. I might spend five or ten minutes just typing out a response to someone's introduction on here… and then go back and edit it three times for clarity's sake. My finished product usually comes off sounding intelligent and well-informed (as far as I can tell - I really hope it does!) but it takes me a little while to get there. I can generally hold an intelligent discussion better over text, e-mail, the forum, etc. than I can in person, because it provides me a little more time to think it through. I don't know if the memory problems are related to that issue in some way, or if it's because I've been fatigued to some degree most of my life. It may even be something completely different!

Btw, I've already edited twice.

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

LondonSnow, yes, I do little signature things too to try to remember better! When I take my pills in the morning, sometimes I'll swish the water around in my mouth or take lots of little sips, something like that to make myself remember later that yes, I did take my pills. And I know what you mean about remembering the wrong day, I do that too and start to doubt myself. I will think, "I swished the water around in my mouth so I took my pills... or was that yesterday? Or did I dream it?" And yes, just like you said, if I go back to my house to check it, it's always locked too. But I never have memory of actually locking it. Makes me wonder how many things I do on "auto pilot" and don't remember later.

And yes, I can also memorize some things for life. I still remember my locker combination from high school (5-29-38) and I'm 33 so that was 15 years ago! Maybe if my house had a combination lock I would remember about locking it.

SarahBear, I do that too - I edit my posts all the time, read over the same post 10 times to make sure it makes sense, sometimes I will even write out a long post and then cancel posting it because I just don't like it. It takes me a long time sometimes to respond to posts in the Undiagnosed Club because I like to write a thoughtful response to everyone in there and sometimes there are a lot of posts to respond to! I've always been that way, I heavily edit myself, and have done so even before I became ill, so not sure if it's related to the IBD or just my personality type or what.

 

[LondonSnow]

Whoa, I'm actually really surprised by how alike some of our habits are. Can't say I think most 'normal people' do what we do, but then again a board like this might just have a way of drawing out these odd confessions. I'm also pretty obsessive with getting my posts 'just right' and tweaking the word order about, but nowhere near as much as I used to be. This post is probably going to take me five minutes, whereas last year I might've spent fifteen. I'm not 'better' so much as I've got so much other stuff I have to squeeze in!

I know I sound a lot smarter online or in texts than I do in person. I can reach a nice midway point by speaking really really slowly, but then I just sound condescending. Makes me a real pain to debate with, because I'm totally masking my stalling for extra time.

I'm working 20 hours this week on top of my 20 hours of uni (I only have 8 contract hours) so I'll see how the brain's holding up in seven days. FWIW, you sound like you could hold your own against Christopher Hitchens for at least two minutes.

Cat, again with the remembering ancient, redundant information. I still know the mobile number I haven't used in five years, and I've accidentally given that one out more than a few times when asked.

Okay, that was three backtracks to fix grammatical errors, but no edits. I won't edit this post now, or I'll feel odd.

 

[SarahBear]

Makes me a real pain to debate with, because I'm totally masking my stalling for extra time.

I don't do that. :shifty-t: Nope, never. No idea what you're talking about.

Is it worth mentioning that I fully intended to respond to your post when you posted, Cat, but I completely forgot? I also forgot what I was going to say.

I don't really remember old information like you two do. Locker combinations? I sometimes forgot them over the weekends. Phone numbers? I'd have never made it without a cell phone to keep track of them in. I'm really bad with numbers, though. I can remember plots of books I haven't read in years - although I often forget the titles, and end up wondering if I really read that book or I dreamed it.

 

[LondonSnow]

To be fair, it's not numbers I'm good with per se. When I remember them, I remember them to a melody. It's not quite Glee, but it has a pulse and slight tune to it. Each three or four number 'chunk' becomes like a fictional word in my head.

I think the most embarrassing story regarding my memory was back in secondary school, when our form tutor was reading out the monthly notice from the library reminding us to return books, and the book I'd forgotten to return just HAD to be titled 'An Idiot's Guide to Remembering Things.'

I'm actually the opposite with plots, I forget things very easily (or don't notice them at all). I'd rewatched the first season of Thrones twice before reading the book and only then did I discover that the strange little boy who followed Bran around wasn't the village idiot but in fact his baby brother!

 

[SarahBear]

If it helps, LondonSnow, Thrones is very complex! Rickon doesn't have a big part, and there's just so much going on that the details can easily get lost.

I'm very good with reading comprehension, so that's probably why I tend to remember those things. I actually stopped reading halfway through A Feast for Crows maybe six months ago. Here in another few months, I'll pick it up and start back where I left off without any problems.

 

[Cat-a-Tonic]

LondonSnow, it sounds like we have the same brain! I am absolutely the same, I sound a lot more intelligent and coherent in writing than I do in person (I do believe I could hold my own against Hitchens but only because he's dead so he doesn't talk much anymore!). And if I'm talking to someone in person and I get flustered or overwhelmed for any reason (like if multiple people are talking at once or if there is too much background noise), then my brain just kind of shuts down for a bit and I either stop talking or my mouth goes rogue and says whatever it wants without consulting the brain first. I've been really trying to work on that but it still happens sometimes. And I always end up saying the wrong thing, whether I say something offensive or nonsensical, the words always come out wrong when my brain short-circuits like that. I'm not sure if that's related to the possible Asperger's or not but I suspect so.

The worst example of that is, years ago I was trying to talk to two people at once and my brain did that short-circuit thing. My friend said something while I was talking to a sales clerk in the store, and because two people were talking my brain freaked and didn't even register what my friend said, and I just said "Yeah!" in response without thinking at all. Whatever it was that I said yeah to, my friend got super offended. I still don't know what it was that I said yeah about, but he was mad at me. And unfortunately that was the last time I saw him as he died a few days later in a house fire. But back to the subject of numbers, I still remember his phone number 14 years later...

A less awful example of this happened just the other day. I was at work, trying to tell our tech support guy that my email wouldn't connect to the server. But then another co-worker was trying to talk to me too and my brain melted down again and I kept saying printer instead of server. So they got confused and asked what was wrong with the printer? I said nevermind and retreated back to my cubicle to let my brain recover from the stress of talking to multiple people at once. I can do okay talking to one person but when multiple people are there I just can't do it! I am terrible at parties. Fortunately I'm an introvert and don't go to parties often anyway, and also fortunately I married an extrovert who loves talking to people, so I usually just let him do the talking for us when we go anywhere.

 

[InstantCoffee]

Complete opposite for me. In my early years I was very healthy but I struggled constantly with everything academic, I had probably had real ADD, where I had literally no attention span and couldn't easily absorb information. I remember cheating off other peoples' paper on long math in 2nd grade (like subtracting 80 from 100, I couldn't figure it out).

I was awful at reading, I failed pretty much every book report I had in elementary school by not finishing the book, I was (and still am) a slow reader but I never 'got' the book. I have a vivid imagination but they just never spoke in the language of my brain.

In middle school it was a joke how bad I was at history. Always have been bad with dates, always will be. The teacher would go down the list and ask us if we wanted our grade read aloud, we had the option to opt out, I didn't care and 50's where often called out, I didn't take it seriously.

I was conversely great at math and I would always shoot for those perfect 100s and I remember people in my class rooting for me to nail it.

Come high school I had a bit of a reversal where everything clicked and I just felt so much more academic, right as my symptoms hit sophomore year. Granted I still nearly failed out of history. In high school I started plowing books like an Alaskan snowplow. I was put in a more advanced English (we had 3 levels, 3 was dummy, 2 was average and 1 was advanced). I was in 1 english, my history when 3-1-2-2, I started off in 3 because of how bad I was in middle school, and my teacher thought I didn't belong there with slackers, air heads and a few of the learning disabled, so instead of bumping me up one, put me an advanced and I nearly failed. I can't help that I HATE history, but world cultures was interesting enough to get me high marks.
I was 2 in math but feel I could have been in 1.
English class was all about reading the book and agreeing with their stupid theories about author motivation, and BSing the teacher hard, and I'm good at BSing.

When I got out of college I picked up the pace on reading even harder (mostly because of lots of sleepless nights due to indigestion though, hey every curse has its hidden blessings I guess?) I've read the first 3 Dune's, a bunch of stephen king books, 3+ Dean Koontz, some Crichton, all the Harry Potter books (some of them I had already read but wanted a fresh start), and now I'm working on Song of Ice & Fire, halfway through book 3.