New here.. dx with EGE but doc thinks might be Crohn's instead

Crohn's Disease Forum

Help Support Crohn's Disease Forum:

Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
18
I don't even know where to start.. first off thanks to my little penguin for directing me here. I have read a lot of the threads in the last week and gained a lot of information.

My son is 10 years old and has sort of a long medical history. Starting with issues with the pg and then born needing O2, then feeding issues right off the bat. Failure to Thrive as an infant, ng tube fed neocate and finally TPN from 6-10 months and back to ng for awhile until he was able to drink enough neocate. Stayed on that until he was almost 2. He was always sick, RSV.. rotovirus, pneumonia, septic once. We took him to an immunologist at 15 months who ran a lot of tests and he was dx with a primary immune deficiency called CVID and has been on monthly IVIG infusions since he was 18 months old.

Stomach pain never went away even though a lot of his other issues got better with the IVIG. We slowly introduced milk after the neocate, he went from almond milk to lactose free milk to reg milk over the course of a couple of years. He was growing fine, always in the 90-95% for height but 25-45% for weight so he just looks like he is skin and bones. Had a couple of endoscopes looking for eosinophils and one colonoscopy that did find that he was lactose intolerant and some other enzymes were low, maltose and sucrose or something like that. Anyways.. we just dealt with it. He has joint pain, rheumatologist said he was fine, no issues.

Last April I finally made another appt with GI because he hadn't been able to swallow certain foods for almost a year.. meat, bread so on. Stomach pain, bloating, diarrhea/constipation.

Did endoscope in April, it was okay.. some eos in the esophagus and everything else I guess was ok. (I really need to get copies of these) they put him on gastrocrom and prevacid. Things did not improve a whole lot. During the summer they did a 2 month course of prednisone with him and that did help somewhat. In Nov they wanted to scope again but this time add a colonoscopy in. We did that and this time there were abscesses and significant number of eosinophilic clusters found in his ileum. He was put on Entocort, pentasa and went for allergy testing which found him allergic to milk, soy, beef, lamb, fish, shellfish. He was dx with eosinophilic gastroenteritis and he started supplementing his limited diet by drinking neocate splash.

End of Dec, first part of Jan he had another flare.. weight loss, bloating, diarrhea, unable to swallow. Back on entocort and got a little better. March again same thing this time they did stool tests that showed occult blood and inflammation. Something called a fecal calprotectin or something like that test. Ran that twice but the first time we couldn't get any actual stool it was just mucous that had tested positive for blood, but I couldn't see it visually, then the next week we were able to get a better sample, that showed blood still and the inflammation. The one thing I noticed while collecting the sample was the large amount of pentasa beads that were in it. Yikes!

So they ordered CT scan, couldn't do IV contrast because of allergies and the fact that he was just in the ER that week with anaphylaxis and we don't know what from. Drinking the barium gave him his first ever 10/10 on the pain scale and omg.. let's never see that again. poor guy.

Saw the GI on Monday to review the results and they said they were expecting to see inflammation in the small bowel but it showed inflammation in his stomach and something else was said about not being able to rule out an obstruction?? (I really need to get copies of these things, I suck at just auditory information.) So... GI and head of GI (who we were consulting with) feels that we are on the wrong path with the EGE and that Nick actually fits more in the Crohn's area. He took him off the pentasa and gastrocrom for the time being and we are waiting for the last round of prednisone that he was on for his anaphylaxis to get out of his system and head of GI wants to do his scopes again and "do it right" as he put it. That is odd I thought?

I am sure I am leaving stuff out or have got things mixed around.. it was sort of blurry around Nov/Dec. I hope that gives everyone enough info to get an idea of what Nick is going through. His pain level is between a 4-7 after most meals. He usually has a BM after meals as well and bloating, swallowing is still a huge issue (which I don't see listed as a crohn's issue?). He says he hasn't seen the pure mucous in awhile but that there is mucous in the stool that he has most times. I don't know if that means there is blood or not. We go back to GI on the 22nd to get weight check and schedule scopes.
 
Oh.. forgot to add, his blood work for inflammation is totally normal. CRP is normal and the other one. ESR? totally normal. He gets those drawn monthly for his IVIG.
 
Hi and welcome! Phew what a ride you have been on. I can't comment much on the EGE issues as I really am not well versed on that but as far as your sons symptoms pointing toward Crohns it certainly sounds like a reasonable theory.

Maybe the "do it right" comment has more to do with getting the prednisone out of his system so they get a good view of what his inflammation might be like and it isn't masked by the prednisone use rather than inferring that they did something wrong the last time. Does that make sense?

If they are thinking obstruction I would want small bowel imaging as well. Heck, even if they didn't mention it I would want that imaging. Your boy has been through too much for too long I would want the whole enchilada done this time so you could get some good answers and a good treatmentn plan.

I am guessing it isn't inconceivable that he could have EGE and IBD.

As for blood tests not showing inflammation that isn't as uncommon as you would think. There are plenty of kids here whose inflammation doesn't show in their bloods but their symptoms are present. Even a few who are asymptomatic with normal bloods and still have inflammation.

Have they done a fecal calprotectin test? Maybe not if they are scoping anyway and with the prsence of mucus and symptoms your boy is obviously suffering. But it is an easy test and would just give you more information as to GI inflammation.

Good luck on the 22nd and keep us posted.

BTW - what is IVIG?
 
Yes, they did the fecal calprotectin test, twice. That is the one that the first time just had mucous and they couldn't run the test but just showed occult blood. Then the second time, showed blood and inflammation, once we actually got enough stool for it.

IVIG is intravenous immunoglobulins, basically Nick gets infused with the antibodies that are in donated plasma. That is the quick version.
 
Ask for copies of the blood and stool test results too. In the case of a test like fecal calprotectin it's good to be able to compare the numbers on subsequent tests to earlier ones. So it's nice to have a record of this information yourself that you can refer back to.
 
Duh! You did say that didn't you:ybatty:

That's what you get when I read the forum before coffee!

And while we are at it...have they tested vitamin levels? Iron? etc. Or did you say that too
 
I don't know if they tested iron or vitamin levels. Good question. For awhile they had him taking Vit D but we stopped that once he went on the formula.
 
Hi and welcome to this forum!

Sorry I always look at this forum when I don't have enough time.:ybatty:
If you look under my avatar you'll see a link for EGID and IBD support forum.
MLP has provided some good research papers on the subject of IBD and EGID.
Sorry I'll type more when I have time. :yfaint:HUGS:ghug:
 
knnamy, my son had issues swallowing. He often complained about it after meals and started moving more and more toward soft foods.

As his other issues came up, mouth ulcers, fevers, joint pain, the swallowing took a back seat. After dx and the start of Remicade the swallowing issues went away.

His endoscope was clear to his stomach but showed gastritis in the tum, so maybe that was his issue and once the gastritis cleared so did the swallowing issue? The gastritis was related to his CD.
 
Your poor boy, and poor mom! You've traveled a long road and it didn't seem to get you anywhere. I am sure that must have been frustrating. How much does your boy weigh and how tall is he? Is he underweight? Has he done any enteral nutrition therapy since age 2? Is he still on a restricted diet? What is it like? I'm glad your docs are starting at square one again to try to nail down a diagnosis again. This can only help when they try to figure it all out. Has he been tested for any new allergies since he was a baby?
 
Carol, he is not underweight.. I don't think. He is almost 5 feet tall, about an inch away and 74 lbs. He has not done any tube feeding since age two.. but does drink formula orally. His diet is restricted by milk, lamb, shellfish and fish.. they have let him have soy and beef again at the moment but he can't swallow beef so he isn't eating that anyway. He has been tested as recently as Nov for food allergies and two years ago for environmental allergies.

Nick does seem to run low grade fevers often 100-100.5 but with his immune def. it is so hard to tell what would be a symptom and what is just part of him.. you know?
 
"A 10 year old (male) child who is 74.0 pounds and 4 feet and 11 inches tall, has a body mass index of 15.0, which is at the 15.4th percentile and is considered to be normal weight."

My daughter is almost 14, weighs 75 lbs and is 5 ft 2 inches and this is definitely underweight for her. She started at 70 lbs and has gained the 5 lbs in the past 2 months.

You've found a good forum here. Let us know how things go.
 
My Grace also has normal labs.
She's getting a FC stool test soon. So I'll know those numbers in a few weeks.

I hope you get answers soon. It's so hard to watch our kids sick.
 
:ghug: Glad to see you found the place.

Keep in mind Pred can affect the scope/biopsy results for up to 7 weeks after the last round of pred.

SOunds like IBD to me.
Pentasa could have been mildly treating the IBD ( the beads are suppose to show up in the stool BTW :lol2:)
 
MLP, thanks! That is good to hear that the beads were supposed to be there. Thanks again everyone. I just want him to feel better, I hate seeing him rocking back and forth in pain. I just wish there was one quick test that could look at everything and say.. Oh this is what's wrong.
 
Hi Knnamy,

And welcome to the forum! I am very sorry to hear what your son has been going through.

I cannot unfortunately give you any extra advice, but your thread woke my interest because my son may also have some PID. But his Crohn like disease started at the age of 2 and only last autumn the doctors started to suspect a PID.

In our current hospital the doctors think that quite often the IBD is caused by PID, especially if the child is very young. I will give you some links to this relationship between these two disorders in my next reply.
 
Malgrave, thanks for the links. Where are you at in the process of being dx with PID for your little one? Nick was dx at 18 months and has been on ivig since then.
 
The PID suspection came into the picture only when we changed the hospital last autumn. Before that all the doctors were just thinking that he has Crohn's disease, without really thinking why such a young boy has CD...Broad immunological studies were started immediately (including DNA sequensing, gene mapping etc). At first they were suspecting XIAP deficiency but that was ruled out. Now (I think, based on the latest tests) they might be suspecting Bruton's agammaglobulinemia.

Based on their suspects the IVIG was started already in December and it has helped a lot. My son was very very sick before that: constant bleeding, skin problems, pneumonia, urticaria,... we spent 3 months in total in the hospital last year. Now he is so much better. The bleeding stopped after 4 weeks, he has more energy and less skin problems. But like said, we are still waiting for the final diagnosis.

The next colonoscopy will be early May and then we will see how the IVIG has worked.
 
Nick had a horrible day today. 5 massive bouts of diarrhea and stomach pain that he placed at 13 out of 10. Thankfully he was at the dr getting his infusion that happens to be his immunologists wife. She freaked and called her husband and we went to see him after the infusion. Immuno is calling Gi tomorrow and demanding a treatment get in place for nick. Immuno feels this is EGE and not Crohn's tho. Said the abscesses in the TI would have been neutrophil and not eosinophils. I just don't know or really care at this point as long as they make him feel better!
 
I hope the reaction he had and trip to the immunologist was providential and that they can find a solution quickly and effectively for your son...
 
Hope they can get to the bottom of it.
Can you get into to see the head doc at cchmc??
The gi really has a very strong background in egids.
It helped us determine whether DS had Ibd or egid .
Pm me if you want more info
 
Cchmc? Where is that? Our Gi is supposedly great with IBD but they have admitted they are not so great with egid unless it is just confined to the esophagus.
 
Thanks, Boston and national Jewish are both places our current GI wants us to think about getting a second opinion at. We were trying to wait until either the end of the year or right in jan when our new insurance starts.
 
you may want to start now- CCHMC has at least a one year or more wait list - not sure on the others but I would call now and find out wait time since it took us over three to four months from time of first call to actual appt.

It takes a long time to get all the info, slides paperwork , pre reviews, reviews, questions, and extra tests before they will even think about scheduling an appt.
then you have the actual appt lead time.
so if you want in by DEC /JAN call now.

WE called in June and were seen in Nov. That was before the LONG wait list.
At the time the wait list was only 8-12 weeks but that is after they get al the info and do all their reviews.

Good luck
 
Saw GI again this am.. I love 7:45 am appts, got a whole hour to ourselves :)
Scheduling pillcam and upper and lower scopes. Nick even told them.. This is ridiculous, find an answer. He lost more weight. Vomiting/diarrhea again. Horrible pain. Waiting on the call for the procedures, hopefully they will be soon.

We were given a brochure for a camp in mn called camp oasis? I would feel weird sending Nick without an actual dx, but they said he would qualify as is right now undx based on testing. Anyone know anything about it?
 
Glad they are getting all the tests scheduled! Hope they get done soon. No idea about the camp - never heard of them over here.
 
Camp oasis is through ccfa
Lots of parents here have sent there older than 10 kids.
I will tag
Jmrogers
Clash
I know their kids loved it
 
Our daughter is signed up to go. I think it is a great thing. She hasn't gone before, but it will be a great thing to be around other kids who've gone through things she has and won't be the one who is different from diet, skinniness, etc.
 
My son is signed up to go to the Camp Oasis in our area, it will be his first time. I do really hope he enjoys it and makes some friends that are dealing with some of the same issues he has.
 
Here is where we stand today.. Pill cam, upper endoscopy and colonoscopy scheduled for next Thursday. This is his third upper scope since April last year and second colonoscopy... first pill cam. Currently he has patches on his back for patch testing. We have decided that this is it.. one more round of scopes and then we are calling Boston. Two of his specialists have recommended them so I guess that is where will will start looking. One specialist (immuno) said if it comes back Crohn's he thinks we are okay to stay here and begin treatment.. but if it comes back EGE again, time to move on.. it is just too rare a disorder not to be treated by people who are experts.

I hope the patch allergy testing leads us somewhere with feeding him and I hope.. pray the scopes and pill cam next week give us a true answer.
 
Sending loads and loads of luck and well wishes that you finally have solid answers. :ghug:

:goodluck:

In my thoughts,
Dusty. xxx
 
Small update that has me so confused..

The GI calls this am and says, we have pulled all of Nick's previous biopsies to review and look at again. I said well, what did the last ones show.. she said they were totally normal. (which is good.. but doesn't give us any answers) she was shocked they were normal as well. She said that it doesn't match his weight loss or symptoms. His pill cam shows small ulcers in the top part of his small bowel, I don't know what that means. Anyone have a clue?

She said she would get back to me in the next day with answers after everyone has looked at everything and tried to piece it all together. I am just hoping for answers.. this was supposed to be the tests that were going to give us all the answers, now it sounds like they still don't have them.
 
Is it possible that IF he has EOE, that the diet changes worked and thus no eos in his esophagus?
Also he could have crohn's in his small bowels that scope can't reach and imagining can miss.
I think you doc is right on top of things. He wants answers too.
That MIGHT explain the ulcers. Just a thought. Keep us posted.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top