POLL: What constitutes a relationship?

Crohn's Disease Forum

Help Support Crohn's Disease Forum:

What constitutes a relationship?

  • Yes, it is. Just limited by intent in its potential/scope

    Votes: 11 42.3%
  • No, it isn't. It exists solely as an alternative to one.

    Votes: 15 57.7%

  • Total voters
    26

Kev

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
4,935
Location
Halifax, NS, Canada
I just wanted to toss this out there. See if there is any consensus. Open up some dialogue. As a single person, the subject of past relationships comes up. Here is my quandary/question... And, I'm going to try to keep the options Y/N

Does a 'Friends With Benefits' situation meet the criteria to be classed/called a relationship?

Yes, it is a relationship. It is just limited in its scope and potential.

No, it is not a relationship. To whole point is to avoid a
relationship. [UNQUOTE]
 
I've been in one of those. They sort of are a type of relationship but certainly not a loving or trusting one that's meant to last. Someone always gets too attached or fears the other person is and pushes the other away. The point of friends with benefits is that its a "for now" thing, its not meant to last because either person could meet someone else and leave the other with no strings attached. The point of a relationship is to be together forever. Doesn't mean either one will last.

So really it is and isn't a relationship. Its both of those options. I voted no because for me since its not meant to last then its not really a relationship, just a couple people screwing around when it pleases them.
 
Also sometimes called "dick under glass." It's there when you need it, on the shelf when you don't.
 
I have been in 2.. And, you know, of all of the things I've ever discussed on here, this is perhaps (for me at least) the 'most' embarrASSing (and when you consider some of the stuff I've posted about me, that is some admission). Maybe I am too old fashioned, or it just may be a generation thing, but I've always felt that.. getting into one.. is just.. well, 'quitting' on a true relationship... or.. killing time till the right one comes along.. I dunno.

I personally never thought... or labelled.. them a true 'relationship'.. but in the domain of public networking... where it offers those convenient pull down lists of options, I never saw it listed... under relationship status.. I mean, you see married, divorced, single or widowed... perhaps even a 'its complicated'... but I have never seen 'friends w benefits'.

Is it some, dirty, dark secret. Is it socially unacceptable? If so, why do we all know the term (and have even explored it?). I mean, I know why I explored it. There were some really nice benefits... I was never offered those by anybody at Human Resources. ;-)

As I said, I was in 2. One had all the potential to offer everything a full relationship could, and I started to feel that way, but the lady involved made it crystal clear from the get go that she would NEVER, EVER entertain more than 'friends with benefits', so I opted out. It wasn't an easy choice to make... absolutely phenomenal benefits. We still keep in touch... and it has been years... and occasionally those benefits still.. tempt me.

Other time, purely physical on my part. Absolutely no desire to get beyond the benefits. The friends part wasn't so hot.. and I found myself wanting to just put an end to it. The other party didn't want the benefits to end.. again, mighty nice benefits. But in the end, end it I did (HMMMM, sound like Yoda, I do)... And I don't know if that friendship will last like the other. So far, so good... but it was the more recent, yet we stay in touch less.

Rambling... Anyway, aside from social networking online, if one was socializing (dating) and is asked about 'past relationships'.. should FWB's be on the table, or off? Thoughts?
 
I've had friendships that turned physical with no intention on a romantic relationship, but the friendship ultimately died because of the physical part. I suppose they can work, but it's tricky.

If asked about past relationships in a dating situation, I would not include FWB..at least not from the start. I would disclose that information if I was beginning to feel a true connection with someone and they asked about my sexual past. That's just me, however.
 
There really aren't any rules when it comes to relationships. I've know several people in a "friends with benefits" type of relationship who ended up getting married. I also know people in highly committed relationships, and who are even married, who do not, and never have, had sex with each other.

For example, my cousin and his wife have 3 children, but he's gay, and they used "turkey baster method". They love each other, and both have their own lovers to fulfill their sexual desires, but he wanted to get married and have children, and for her, well, he's a really nice guy and earns an incredibly healthy income. What's not to love?

My favorite gay couple has lived together for over 15 years, co-own their home, and fully intend on remaining together for life. They have sexual relationships with others, but not each other. One is the breadwinner, while his partner takes care of things at home. It's a relationship that benefits and suits them both.

And then, I know traditional married couples who have sex outside their marriage. It's not really cheating if your spouse knows about it, and is ok with it. For example, one of my former coworkers is literally a nymphomaniac, and her husband can't keep up. He not only knew it when he married her though, he knew she was having sex with all his mates, and still does. In fact, I doubt there's a single straight guy on the military base they live on who she hasn't had sex with. Her husband gets a lot of kinky sex, and is a very happy man.

I don't necessarily think that all this is something that's just started in recent years, but rather, that people are just more open about admitting and discussing it.

Myself though, it wouldn't be for me. I'd personally rather have remained single. I never had a problem being single, but again, that's just me.
 
Rambling... Anyway, aside from social networking online, if one was socializing (dating) and is asked about 'past relationships'.. should FWB's be on the table, or off? Thoughts?

Wouldn't that just be an "open" relationship? Or at least along the lines of one? People may ask about past relationships but if the person really likes you then they wont really want to hear about it. I say that I've dated, longest relationship was 5 years and that's about it. No one really likes hearing details. If you were married before then that may be nice to know or if you have kids but there's no reason to mention friends with benefits.
 
I guess my natural 'black or white' mentality is causing me a bit of cranial tunnel vision. It is something I try to manage/control (the BnW way of looking at things) but sometimes I'm oblivious to it... except in retrospect.

Like, I wouldn't have 'lumped' an open relationship with a FWB. I figure the open one has a commitment level (partners committed to each other) but with no monogamy required. On the other hand (and my 'experience' in the area is only the 2 I have had) FWBs that I have tried... the point was to avoid... a 'love' relationship.. while enjoying the benefits of a 'monogamous' sexual one. And that was clearly stipulated by both parties. That it was monogamous, and had to stay that way, but could end at any time if one or other was interested/involved in a 'real' relationship. So, is this just semantics, or is there a real... difference.. distinction.. between the two? Or is that a rhetorical question?
 
Well hard to say. With your FWB relationship you weren't allowed to see other people but with the one I had we were allowed to see other people. Guess it just depends on what you both want and doesn't really need a label.
 
I think there are a variety of relationships and some of what is being referenced are "marriages of convenience", open relationships, friends w/ benefits and polyamorous relationships.

I think they are all valid and as long as all consenting people are content it's fine.

For me I'm an old fashioned type who believes in monogamy. I can't separate my emotions from sex. It's more than physical, it's emotional and spiritual for me.
 
I would not lump FWB in with an open relationship either. In FWB type of arrangement, both the friendship and sexual component are casual. There is no commitment, much less love, either to the friendship or the sex. They don't even necessarily have to like each all that much. They are little more than "ports in a storm", in a relationship based on little more than the premise, "it's better to be with anyone, than being alone". Once either party finds someone they truly care about, having lost its purpose, the friendship is rarely maintained.

While in open relationships, there is usually a very strong commitment, where the partners have bonded as a couple in every way, but for them, "variety is the spice of life" and many even believe that adding multiple partners keeps their sex lives with each other from falling into a dull and boring routine. That doesn't mean they aren't capable of loving each other strongly, or prevent them in any way from building a life, and planning their future together.

I also would not define any of the examples I gave above as "marriages of convenience." In a marriage of convenience, the couples don't really care about each other. They live completely separate lives, and simply stay together for either the sake of children, to avoid dilution of assets, or to derive some other benefit.

But my cousin and his wife grew up together, and have been best friends since childhood. They are peas in a pod, and so inseparable, they're practically joined at the hip. If it wasn't for the fact that he's gay, they probably would have sex.

My favorite gay couple? Well, the "homemaker" has a trust fund. He doesn't need to work, and enjoys nothing more than caring for his partner and their home. But his partner is extremely permiscous, and that was a deal breaker. They did try breaking up, but missed each other and were both miserable. To resolve the impasse, they agreed to no sex. Doesn't mean that they don't love each other, are totally committed and even just bought their future retirement home in Florida. They do everything together, and are a married couple in every other way.

My former nymphomaniac coworker? I worked with her for over a year without even guessing, and only found out when she moved in with me for a short period of time. She has a hormonal imbalance that creates a hyperactive sex drive, but never broke up anyone else's marriage or relationship, and is very discreet. She loves her husband and is very committed to their marriage, and the world is full of men who would kill to wake up every morning to a wife desperately begging for every imaginable type of wild, kinky sex. So don't worry about him.

Human beings are rather complex creatures, and very little is all that "black or white". Relationships are whatever works for those involved in them. What's wrong is when you cause pain and hurt another person, by being deceitful and betraying the trust they placed in you to keep a promise of fidelity. But you can't break a promise you never made, and if you're open and upfront in advance about your desire to remain "non-exclusive" then your partner has the choice to accept those terms, or not.

I personally would choose "or not", but that's me.
 
I think there are gay people in marriages of convenience with the opposite sex who do love their spouse, they just aren't sexually attracted to them. Many gay people who couldn't come out, are deeply religious or wanted to fit in and have a family and couldn't see the option of doing that in a gay relationship just got married to the opposite sex. Some may have arrangements with their spouse, others may cheat and some may simply just be celibate or force themselves to be with their spouse on intimate terms.
 
You know, in a bizarre way... and those of you who have read ANY of my posts in other areas know how bizarre I can get... I think I opened up this discussion (and thanks to all who have jumped in here... it has nothing to do with Crohns... and I was a little adverse to even put it in the Forum for that reason alone.. but I thought.. not everything has to be about our disease, right?.. So, again, thanks for the.. I guess.. validation of the topic) because I felt... guilty.. maybe even ashamed a little.. that I had settled for, or opted for, FWB's. And, I'm not sure why. Like, it was a cop out, a shortcut.. a manner of settling for something less... because I wasn't sure if anyone would want a 'real' relationship with a Crohnie. I am dating (yeah, at my age, go figure) and when the past relationship question comes up, I really didn't know how to answer. (see, it really is all about me). Telling people about it feels like a confession, yet not feels like lying. Figured if I could come up with a consensus, a categorical definition of whether it is, or it isn't.. then I resolve the conflict. Does that make sense to anyone?
 
I think if the question is how many sexual partners, then yes, include FWB. If the question is relationship, I don't think it is lying to exclude FWB. I (personally) would let someone know about those if I was getting serious enough and felt secure about exposing all other sorts of details about myself, but not until that point. But again, that is just me. You gotta do what is right for you, Kev!
 
Kev I think there are people out there who are open minded to being in a "real" relationship with a crohnie. I dated one guy who was a sweetheart and said Crohn's makes me stronger and my scars are badges of honor. He didn't let the disease bother him at all. I think he is the exception to the rule but there are people out there.
 
Kevin

If the question is number of sexual partners, my answer would be "none of your business". If the question was regarding relationships, my answer would be the same. Of course, I have much nicer ways of saying "none of your business", such as, "They're the past, you're the present, so let's talk about us."

One of the primary reasons people ask about past relationships though is to find out how much "baggage" you are carrying, to get a " heads up" of what they are getting themselves into.

There is nothing more annoying (and rude) than dating someone who has an ex or two, still hanging around. If there are children involved, it may be unavoidable, but even then, well 3 hour phone conversations with an ex for any reason is totally unnecessary and rude to your current partner. Going over to your ex's house to fix their plumbing, for the "sake of the children" or spending Christmas Day there is total BS. And of course,there's nothing worse than dating someone with a psycho ex, who screams and yells on your front yard, and follows you around threatening your life.

So the question is usually asked more to find out what they are getting themselves into. Telling them about your FWB arrangement? Oh, those are a wonderfully welcoming relief! You see former FWBs won't be calling their house in the middle of the night threatening suicide, or "conveniently" showing up at every party and function you attend to cause problems, or even create a scene.

I'm not speaking hypothetically. These are actually the "normal" dating experiences of pretty much everyone I know. I believe most would take a partner with crohns over one with a psycho ex still in the picture, any day.

Most exes are also only as psycho as THEY allow them to be. Exes only continue calling as long as they keep answering the phone and talking to them. You can't have a 3 hour conversation with anyone who hangs up after the first 30 seconds.

Regardless, the people you're dating aren't asking about your former relationships to find out whether or not you ever "settled" for a FWB relationship. They have far greater concerns, and if they've been dating for a while, have probably experienced every one of the above.

The other main concern? If you are a man, are older, and assuming you are straight, well, the older you get, the more single women outnumber the available men. Most men know this, and well, why get into a relationship with one, when you can have relations with many? Especially guys going through that "midlife" crisis period, instead of buying red corvettes, become "players" and most women would rather know upfront front, than find out 6 months down the road, especially if they also discover only then, that they are not the only one their BF has been having sex with. It's that whole "betrayal of trust" thing.

but I think I have to advise against bringing up FWB for an even important reason. If you start discussing "friends with benefits", your date may misunderstand your intention, and think that you brought it up to "feel them out" as to whether they might be willing to enter into the same type of arrangement with you--and if someone I was dating did that to me, I would be insulted, and might even walk out.

and that's why I advise against bringing it up.
 
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but I think I have to advise against bringing up FWB for an even important reason. If you start discussing "friends with benefits", your date may misunderstand your intention, and think that you brought it up to "feel them out" as to whether they might be willing to enter into the same type of arrangement with you--and if someone I was dating did that to me, I would be insulted, and might even walk out.

and that's why I advise against bringing it up.

I concur. I've had a few people do this to me while just having a regular conversation and it left such a bad impression that I had no desire to continue speaking with them.
 
Hmmm "they are the past, you are the present"... maybe it is just me (and this is not only going to sound sexist, it is sexist.. I'll be the 1st to admit it) but does any male on here think a woman would accept that as an answer? I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but it just smacks of... cover-up... deception.. and I just don't think it would fly. Now, if a woman responded to a guy that way, I think we are egotistically idiotic enough to believe it.. but what do I know. Glossing over it just seems to highlight it all the more.

And, no one has asked me recently about the number of people I have been with (maybe they don't lend credence to a man my age having the urge, or the ability) but when it has happened, I would make a point of pointing out the ridiculous of the question by responding.. "All at once, or over the span of my lifetime?" Usually enough to illustrate that.. it is none of their business, I don't.. kiss.. and tell, and what matters to the 'next' person to join the 'multitude' is whether or not I bring anything more than just memories of partners past.

But, the more feedback I see, the more I begin to realize that perhaps Dear Abby or Ann Landers had the best answer.. paraphrasing.. 'why would you ask such a personal question?"
 
Kev,

I'm a woman, so maybe that has something to do with why I could get away with it, but honestly, to me, the less said about a former love interest, the better. You can call me old-fashioned, but in my mind, a gentleman never tells.

If you feel the need to discuss your past relationships on a date, then approach it like a job interview--you should never say anything bad about a former employer because only it makes the interviewer wonder what kind of derogatory comments you will then say behind their back. Same applies with potential partners.

It minimum, do not refer to that person as being a FWB, because many will perceive it as dehumanizing, degrading and disrespecting that person, and the only thing you will accomplish is to make them wonder whether you will end up doing the same to them. Or worse, that you are is viewing them in the same exact manner.

Instead, you could say that you were in a relationship with someone who wasn't interested in or ready for a commitment, and that wasn't something you found very fulfilling. That the 2 of you were at different places in your lives. The end.

I personally appreciated the fact that my husband never discussed any of the other women he had in the past. He didn't didn't have to. We lived in a very small town and I already knew all about it before our first date. I think even more so with men, it can be perceived as "bragging", and that's in very poor taste. There's far better things to discuss, and there will never be time in the world for us to run out of conversation.
 
Thanks for the input. I NEVER discuss the other person... nothing that would even remotely identify them.. name, age, hometown, etc.., I have always been (or at least felt) free to talk about myself (apparently it is my favourite subject) ;-) but that is where I draw the line. I might discuss a persons traits.. good and/or bad, but that is as far as I'd go. One thing I have noticed... and I think it may be indirectly attributable to the amount of time I've spent on here... is that I'm much more.. free.. liberal.. open.. to discussing things in the last few years. I just have to remind myself that the netiquette of this site is.. pretty unusual, unique even.. and that what 'plays' here isn't for normal consumption. I think the lesson I should draw from all this is to rein in the info in real life
 
There really aren't any rules when it comes to relationships.
Yes. Human relationships are as complex as humans (or maybe that should be are as complex as humans squared, or raised to a power of 2 or higher).
I don't necessarily think that all this is something that's just started in recent years, but rather, that people are just more open about admitting and discussing it.
That is my take on it too.
 
I'm 70.....resection for Crohn's, I'm lucky....on 6MP......and I'm a retired RN......if you want someone in your life, here is how you get them. I had 10 years in between realtionships. Had a woman tell me this and I thought she was nuts, but I did it and have been married for 30 years. I came with major baggage too, Crohn's was the least of it, so start.

Treasure Mapping

This is an idea from Unity Church and I’m sure other places, but it works! No matter what you desire to happen in your life, you can treasure map and it will come to you. When doing it to find a partner you hunt for items related to that subject.
First, you get a standard sized large piece of poster board in a color that resonates with you, then you get a glue stick. As you read magazines, from wherever you find them, start tearing out items that pertain. Such as physical attributes. Do you want a tall man or is a short one OK. Do you want him bald or with lots of hair or isn’t that important. No matter if it isn’t, still address the issue. These pieces of magazine can be photos or words or a combination of both.
Address physical, mental, emotional and spiritual traits that you want present in your next mate. Do you want him to have children from a previous relationship? Do you want his parents to be alive? Do you want him to drink? Socially? NO is the answer to that, in my book, but your book might be different. It’s just that it leads to over indulging later in life as well as the types of people that you socialize with. What kind of job do you want him to have had or have? Retirement plan? Health history? What disorders are acceptable and what are not. Do you want him to be athletic to the point of golfing his brains out every day and on weekends to the exclusion of you? Or do you want to golf with him.
Do you want him to be a romantic? Kill me. There are varying degrees of this disease as well as types of it. My husband used to bring me blueberries in his hard hat. Still brings me long bird feathers that he finds. Flowers that cost $50 and can be bought at the grocery store? Bite me. Be original which is also another trait you will look for. Do you want him to be artistic? And in what way?
A man can be Spiritual because he reads Spiritual books, is a seeker, does not have to be a church member to be Spiritual. He has to view events from a Soul perspective. Do you want him to have the type of intellect that is open to all people of all religions or do you want a right wing nut job? Or a left wing freak.
There can be a paragraph or a few lines of type that speak to what you want in a mate, so cut that out too. You will get so you become aware of the things that you DO want that you are not aware of now. This exercise has to go deep into what type of person you want to live with the rest of your life. How do you want him to treat your children? What type of roll does he play, how do you want to talk about this together? He will be first in your life, above them so it’s important that he be respectful of others.
You get the idea here, but cut out a few items and put them in a pile somewhere, then take out your poster board and glue them on in a creative fashion that appeals to you. Then slide it under your bed until the next time that you have accumulated enough pictures and word groups to explain to the Universe what type of person you are seeking. Then go about becoming that person. There is no hurry here. No looking for a man. The only seeking you will do is within yourself and when you are ready, “in the fullness of Time” there he will be, quite by “accident.” Don’t talk about this with others. Years can go by.
 
I tried that mapping thing once, but I think I did it wrong. Maybe I should have picked a bigger poster board. Once I glued the centerfolds to it, there wasn't room for anything else. ;-)
 
I tried that mapping thing once, but I think I did it wrong. Maybe I should have picked a bigger poster board. Once I glued the centerfolds to it, there wasn't room for anything else. ;-)

I think the treasure map concept could arguably work, but more because "birds of a feather flock together", meaning that we tend to be attracted to those who as most like ourselves. So to to attract a specific type of person, you first transform yourself into that same type of person.

But I still don't even know who I want to be "when I grow up", so how could I possibly know what I want in another person? I wouldn't want to limit my options with any preconceived standards, because you never know until you try.

If you're over the age of 40, limiting yourself to someone who's parents are still alive, or who doesn't have children from a former marriage would also be pretty unrealistic. And just because a person doesn't drink when you first meet, doesn't mean they won't start. Or that they won't get sick, lose their hair, job, retirement plan, develop a disorder, etc. No one comes with a guarantee.
 
Very good, Ya noy. Yes, we attract people like we are, even if we don't know who we are. I'm 70. My parents and my two sons died in an aircraft accident when I was 29, no siblings, thank god I was a nurse, divorced when I was 30, that was happening anyway, more college, no man in my life for 10 years. My work was my life. One day my older friend told me to treasure map for a man. Pardon? One woman at work, in billing, asked me if I ever did anything but medicine. No. The process of doing the map took me a year and I never thought once about it after I slide it back under my bed, then one day I was done with it. After the new hire asked me about doing something other than medicine and told me about a play her neighbor was in and I might like, playing at our local theater, I thought I'd try that. So I went and took a book in case of an emergency like some dolt wanting to talk to me about nothing. Another friend did props and made me come up after the play to show me the stage and then introduce me to my husband. He extended his hand and completely turned to Light. All I could see was his hand so I shook it and knew I would marry him which sent me into a state of terror. I did go to some rehearsals when he directed plays and casually asked him if his parents were alive, he was 44. Oh, yes they were. Oh, god, no. I wasn't in the mood to take care of any more people, but when asked if he had siblings, he said he had 5 sisters. Well, then, I'll be off the hook. I asked him out because a friend made me and we were together forever. He has no children. My criteria were getting to a point where I wanted them to set up and feed themselves, be educated, have a good job and not drink. My first visit to my husband's home let me watch him making a pie and a pot roast. I had a fork, a spoon and a coffee maker, but I had a home, a career, an education, a job and money in the bank. I was a good catch. Except for the slight pile of baggage and the craps which were probably just nerves. Wrong. A few years after we married I finally had to drink a barium cockail and it impressed the radiologist so much he came out with a film and said, "Girl, this is what's wrong with you, now take this with you and don't tell anyone because they aren't party favors." I wanted a guy who was artistic, I wanted a man who was a spiritual seeker. I got everything and more that I didn't even know I wanted. I told him about me on our first date so he could run, but he didn't run, nor did he run when I got sick. I'm starting to do another one for this new phase in my life because I don't knit, I don't go to church, I don't go to senior centers, and I don't do small talk about grandkids. I write. I'm a photographer. He's had heart surgery, I cut his hair and it's going fast. I did not marry his hair or his family. Love will carry you through everything. I thought he was old when I met him, had to be talked about of that because he's 4 years older than I am. Just try it and be artistic about it, see it as an art project rather than a way to get something or someone. I've got crap cut out already and none of it means a thing to me, but I like the words and the nature of it. You sound like a good catch too. That I did know about myself, I was pretty too. Not anymore but I'm funny and that goes a long way. It's all destiny and the right people came into what was left of my life to make me take the fork in the road. This end's today's sermon. Amen.
 
Connie,

I'm not 70, but I am married and my husband and I have been together for a very long time as well. Frankly, he is 6'2", built like a Greek God, and is so good looking that the first time I laid eyes on him, I almost dropped to the floor in shock.

I had zero interest in dating him though because his reputation preceded him. He was the lead singer for several local heavy metal bands, drank like a fish, and had a reputation for sleeping with, well gee, every and any woman who wanted him. Every band in town wanted him as their lead singer because he put on quite the show, both onstage and off, and really packed the clubs. Wasn't like he slept with a different girl every night, more like several, in between sets. he didn't have to tell me any of that, because all the women I knew had already told me all about him, in explicit detail.

He asked me out repeatedly for a year, and I turned him down every time, but then, well, needed a date for a company Christmas party, and everyone I worked with bugged me so much about it, I decided to to bring the most inappropriate guy I could find, and he was it. Him and I dressed for the occasion, in matching black leather, and they even ended up auctioning off my sparkling black fishnet stockings at that party.

Day after that party, he quit singing, signed himself into rehab, and hasn't drank or gone to a bar or club since. All of that became a complete nonissue. He was never really that guy anyway, and was only doing all that crap because he was depressed after his ex had dumped him for his best friend. He took up all my hobbies and I took up all his, and we pretty much spend every non-working minute together, ever since, and still do. Yeh, he may be older than me and has some health issues, but none of that effects his rather incredible libido. I'm not going to tell you the last 3 places we had sex because you wouldn't believe me. I may not be thrilled about all those other women, but he does prove that practice makes perfect, and I don't think I could have asked for a more perfect husband. I didn't either.

Oh, and I couldn't have any children of my own, and rather adore my amazingly gorgeous stepdaughters, especially since they've also given us the gift of the most precious step grand-babies imaginable!

None of which would have been on any preconceived "treasure map" I could have ever come up with, so I think I'll stand by my previous post, and just thank God for my unanswered prayers.
 
You know, I think finding a relationship (hmmm, are we all scared of the L word, and no, I'm not referring to that TV series about gay women) is a lot like battling Crohns disease. What works in one case doesn't in the next. Everybody is different, every case unique.

But, at least we fight the good fight. I 'believe' looking for love (there, I said it, and I am proud) is worth the risk, the effort, the 'exposure'. We don't give up on life when Crohns hits us... so why should we opt out of looking for love? But, I have met those who have. To each their own. I am not about to give up. I never cared what the odds were going into a fight. I always went in, and so far, I have always come out winning. (Oh, s....ugar. That almost sounded like Charlie Sheen.)

Case in point. Went on a date last nite. Third date. First two went well, but last night was a disaster. Why? The lady wants a man to take charge. To 'stop' her behavior from being bad.... So, apparently last night was a test. I didn't pass the test. I refuse to take the test. I'm not about controlling people... So, after the movie (went to see Silver Lining Playbook... powerful, uplifting, but slow, almost painful to watch at times) I dropped the lady at her place and drove off. The movie had put me in the mood for dancing, but I didn't want to invite my date. I had just spent 3 hours with someone who left me feeling like I was all alone at the time. That was enough to convince me I needed to look elsewhere. It is one thing to dislike a person you've met on a date, but to get the feeling they aren't really there... at all. Then why bother to date at all? So, off I drove. And I did something I normally don't do. I went to several bars, not to drink, but to see if I could a place where there were folks my age who still liked to dance. It took 3 tries... but I found a place. Ran into some old acquaintances from my pre Crohns work days... even an old girl friend.. and then this lady 'figuratively' caught my eye..and I hers. We danced from 10 - closing time. A 'real' connection, maybe. But I think I blew it. At closing time, I gave her my name N number, told her I found her exceptionally attractive, and that (and I'm paraphrasing myself here) that I always found the direct approach the best, it always worked for me. What I meant was that I believe in being forthright, honest, direct... no b/s, no games. But, in retrospect, what I meant and what I said aren't exactly one and the same. She doesn't know me, and my first impression may have come across that I'm vain enough to think that all I have to do is give a lady my number. So, I'm not holding my breath she will ever pick up the phone, or that she kept it to begin with. But, there certainly was a lot of eye contact. Speaking of male vanity... sure felt nice to know this old fellow can capture and keep the eye of an extremely attractive woman. Be nicer if I could put my approach into something approaching a reasonable YET accurately translatable sentence that I wouldn't be kicking myself for the next day. I guess hindsight is always 20/20. But I'm not a pickup artist, I'm not a pickup line artist (obviously) and the whole pickup thing is.. well... it involves game playing, role playing.. that just doesn't fit my 'forthright' way of doing things. But, I sure enjoyed those dances. At least I get to keep the memories.

And, although I dislike the bar scene... guess you can't win the fight without entering the ring.

Anyway, I seemed to have hit a nerve with this simple (look how I mis-worded the poll, for Kripes sake??!!??) thread, so if I can continue to stir things up, and expand on this concept... anyone, either gender, who can provide some insight, primers, etc., on how to talk to the opposite sex, in a noisy bar room scene? What are the best pickup lines you have heard or used? What worked for you, or on you? Care to give a guy advice?
 
Well, my pet, let us stir things up!! And Charlie Sheen was right, it's all about WINNINGGGG!! I love old Charlie, tho his lungs are ready to give up the good fight. I MUST find a way to send you a story I wrote about a guy I met at a bar who just saved my life, him and some wonderful gay men. I'm going to see if I can fit it on here. There is a reference to "the wreck" but that has to be since I am laying the ground work for my state of mind. Oh, yum to that man.
And if this woman does not call you, she is nuts and doesn't deserve you. If you look anything like your photo, then yum to you. I'm so direct I scare myself so to me, you did the right thing. Oh who knows, but it was right for you and if you weren't totally wasted drunk then fine. A man with a disease is a man who has the ability to be introspective and women love that. In fact some women can't wait to rescue a man, so watch out for that too. Look thru slitted eyes. I once told a girlfriend of mine back when my husband and I were first dating was I knew he must be crazy if he loved me. That was my yardstick. The bar scene has lots to offer, it depends on why one goes. I wonder how many words this thing holds because I'm going to leave now and find out. You'll resonsate with the story....because talking is not necessary. Oh, and was she loaded to the gills? Drunks are my speical passion and there is nothing quite like a dry drunk either. They're always addicted to something to fill up the hole. You know, ask yourself why you need the beard. Then shave it off. Or not. Yes, shave it off. It gets in the way of kissing and food gets in it and it's a "cover." You have great hair, leave it on your head. I'll be back, if it isn't soon, then it will be later. Amen. This end's Sunday's sermon.
 
An Amazing Love
Connie Newell, March 2012
 
In the summer of 1976 I moved to Traverse City, Michigan, to a sweet little rental house right on a main road so I could sit and watch the cars after I got home from my job as an emergency room charge nurse on the afternoon shift at a local hospital. This was the first time that I had ever been totally alone and fortunately the house had a homey quality to it, plus a very small basement apartment rented out to two older people that I rarely saw but at least knew were there.
On March 3rd, 1974, my father flew my mother and my two sons into a cornfield on the way back from Disneyland, which was traumatic enough, but I was also an only child, and separated from my husband, so life felt like I had no place in it except for my job which I was tremendously grateful to have. I ended up fifty miles away from anyone I knew and dimensions away from anyone I loved, so after work on Saturday night I started going out to this little bar not far from my home. I loved music, having been raised with a family who were musicians for generations and they played gigs so I knew that the band that seemed to be a house band practiced many hours and it wasn’t always fun, but it was their job to make it seem like it was.
Going into the bar the first time was very awkward so I took a book! Thought I’d act casual and at least the drunk men would leave me alone. There was a lovely porch area out back of the bar where people could go to talk, drink and smoke a joint if they were so inclined and I was inclined. Alcohol was not for me.
 There was a big field that could be seen for miles before the sun completely set and on summer evenings it was nice to get a breath of air and still be able to hear the band play.
The first time I saw him, he was looking at me in a friendly way and he was sitting with 3 other men fairly far away from the band while I sat at a little circular table, near the bar. Fortunately there was a square pole there so I could kind of hide behind that while the people frantically danced to the sounds of the country and western band. The men were drinking beer and when he stood up to go outside I noticed that he was about 6’ 4” tall and was a very muscular man who wore jeans well and looked groomed. Nice haircut and mustache that was not so huge he looked like an idiot, and he wore a well pressed shirt.
Of all the men there, he stood out to me, mostly because he did not try and hustle me, though he would look at me and nod his head hello. He did not dance either, nor did I, and I left when it was nearly closing time and since I had gotten there around midnight, I wasn’t there long, but long enough to get a feel for the place and the band which I liked. Not too twangy, just played “standards” of the times and some R & B, songs that people knew and in a rhythm that I was familiar with, as my dad used to say, “two rags and a loin presser.”
I totally forgot about the man, as I jumped back into my hellacious life, working fast and hard and being more lonely that I ever thought was possible, sitting in the window at my table and watching the night traffic go by. I knew most of the cops from working in ER and if they would go by and see my light on they would hit their lights and siren for a moment, just to let me know they cared.
Several weekends later I remembered the bar and thought I’d go earlier since I wasn’t working that weekend. I put my standard outfit on, jeans and a top and drove up the road and into the parking lot which was full of cars and trucks. I took a deep breath, locked the car and waltzed in with what I hoped was an aura of ease. Saw my table was empty, since who would want to sit where the view was mostly blocked by a beam and people’s backs would be toward the Bar anyway. Good spot.
The five piece band was playing, and after my eyes got used to the dark, I saw the same man sitting at his usual table with the same male friends. He caught my eye and nodded his head so I acknowledged him with a small wave, then looked back down at my trusted book.
Before long the band started playing a loin presser and the dance floor filled up as I looked at the man who was looking at me. He gestured with his hand held out meaning “Would you like to dance?” Ah, well, yeah. So I met him in the middle of the small floor with the loud band playing a nice slow song. He simply reached out and put his arm around me and soon we were easily dancing together, then a miracle, it was very natural to dance with him. Because of his height I had to look way up to see his face which was looking down at me smiling, then he looked away and we finished the dance without saying one word to each other. With the song over we nodded over the din of people and went to our respective corners.This went on most of the evening. My, he was a good dancer and it felt good to even be slightly close to someone listening to music I loved. We would sit some songs out and then he would look at me and we’d be dancing again, mostly to slow songs and he was a perfect gentleman, never holding me too tightly which would have given me cause to never go there again. At intervals I would go out on the back porch and smoke part of a joint, as others were doing, but I kept to myself near the corner. I’d stay there a while, then dub out the joint and go back inside where the alcohol people were sweating and racing around scream talking. I left around 1 a.m. with a nod to the man. I unlocked my car and drove the short distance home. I felt loved.
The next weekend rolled around and after work I was at the bar about midnight and sure enough, there he sat looking at me as I sat down. God, now what?! I always ordered only a coke and I liked it that he didn’t follow me outside when I went, that would have been too much back then. He was very, very handsome and it looked like he could bench press a car, but he had that farmer look to him too. Big belt buckle, jeans tight on his thighs, a variety of checkered shirts that were always perfectly ironed. He smelled delicious too. Warm brown naturally wavy hair that needed no product to make it look wavy and it was always perfectly combed.
Sure enough, it wasn’t long before a slow number started playing and he gestured towards me to dance. We were starting to dance closer and I was less rigid when he put his arms around me. I know he could tell that too and did not do anything I would consider a threat or improper. This went on until closing time when I took my book and headed for the door, stopping to wave at him.
A person can only go so long without human touch, especially if their lives are really messed up and they are lonesome. Lonely people can be driven to do things that are further demoralizing to themselves, so they must hope for a clerk or for, in my case, a patient to touch them or someone who needs a hug. I saw starting to be able to receive some kindness from the man at the bar who was never drunk and seldom ordered more than one beer that he sipped on all night.
I worked every other weekend so the next weekend I was at the bar at 10 p.m. on Saturday night with many other people who weren’t sick, didn’t want me to do anything for them, and I could just relax and enjoy myself. I was starting to relax to the point where I didn’t even bother bringing the book with me.
Of course he was there and of course we danced the night away, mostly slow dances, but a few faster ones and to my surprise he was a great dancer to that type of music also. Who was this guy? I never even talked to him while we were dancing and he didn’t talk to me, it is as if we both had a need to be held and we communicated without words, just a few gestures now and then and after a while, smiles. He had a beautiful smile that made me feel shy, his eyes were so deep and they said all that needed to be said, and I swear they were a golden color with brown flecks in them. Long thick lashes, almost girlie eyes.
As the summer months passed, I was at the bar as many Saturday nights as possible and hated it if I had to miss one because I worked too late or had to be in Cadillac. I began looking forward to these hours with this man and I was developing deep feelings for him. I was in my early thirties and he was about the same age, but I only ever saw him in the dimly lit bar lighting. Maybe he was well past sixty.
The more we danced and our non-relationship grew, the closer we held each other while we danced, to the point where near the end, I was laying my head on his chest and both of his arms were around me. He would enfold my hand that was pressed against his chest with his huge hand and bend his head to touch my face. Our eyes closed and sometimes we would even forget to move our feet, then with an abruptness we would resume the dance. We began to sleep walk our way through the dances and there were no gestures of “do you want to dance” needed anymore, we both knew we wanted to be held by the other so when the band began a slow number we just walked over to the center of the floor. Never did we sit at the same table and never did we go outside at the same time. However, we were very much together.
The first week of September I walked in the bar and he was standing by his table talking to his friends with his back to the door, so I saw one of the friends tell him I was there and he quickly looked over his shoulder and smiled. I got my coke and soon we were swaying to the music and I was safe for a while. I knew no other man would ask me to dance, it seemed that it was an open secret that the band knew, the bar staff knew and most of the people knew. We were an item that no one quite knew what to make of, including me since it was Enough.
That beautiful summer of 1976 was turning into fall so the warm nights I went to the bar to see this man were so very special because as I stood outside on the deck I could almost smell the fall colors and feel the leaves come down softly landing on the porch rails. It was a time of change, an end of a long summer that I knew I would remember forever with gratitude for this man whose name I still did not know. The music played and we danced into the early morning, hugging each other tightly, not wanting to let go when a song ended. Toward the end of the night, just before the lights came on, and at the end of a song, he kissed me on the cheek, so tenderly and sweetly that I would have followed him anywhere, but at the same time I knew that this was going to end.
 Soon we would never see each other again and I didn’t even want to know who he was or where he lived or anything about his life or his baggage, I just wanted to hang onto a beautiful moment. To inhale this man, to remember how his arms felt and how commanding his presence was without being over bearing.
With winter just a month away and the holidays coming up, we met at the bar while the porch was no longer a big draw to people because the air blew cold across the field and it wasn’t nearly as welcoming as usual. Some of the picnic tables were leaned up against the wall signaling an end to the season.
We danced every slow dance that night and some of the faster ones, but instead of going to our respective seats to wait for the next number to start we stayed on the dance floor holding hands and waiting. As time took us to the close of the bar, we looked at each other with deep gratitude and he held my face in his hands and said, “Thank you.” My eyes started to fill with tears, so he pulled me close to him and we danced that last dance because neither of us wanted to hear last call and have the lights come up and put that kind of memory at the end of our time together. I went right back to my table, picked up my purse and without looking at him left the bar and drove home. Home?
I threw my purse on the chair and sat down at the table. I lit up a cigarette and looked out to see no traffic. A long dark road with no lights. Tears ran down my cheeks and I felt like I might just die here alone, but then I heard the noise of a siren, looked up and the guys were driving by. Maybe I wasn’t alone after all.
Two weeks later I could not help but go back to the bar just to affirm what I already knew. He was gone and the place didn’t look the same, nor did it feel the same. It was loud and noisy and boring. Even the band had been replaced by three guys playing what they thought was music, but was just noise.
 
My husband won my heart through the direct approach. I resisted going on a date with him, but when we finally did go out, he was very direct all evening..without being insulting.. and it was wonderful. He gave me his number rather than pressuring me for mine.

Games and being coy are lame. Direct is best. I think you did good.
 
WOW!!!! Thanks for the feedback.. And the support. And, RNCrohnie (who would name a child that???) PLEASE, please don't tell me that is how the story ends? I'm a happy ending kind of guy... tell me there is a happy ending. Oh, as for the beard... First off, tho the photo is a few years old, it is me. I have a little more grey, but you could pick me out of a police line-up in a sec based on the photo. I'm not 6' 4", only 6' 3", and I'm built wider at the shoulders (women seem ... enchanted.. fond... as in short for fondling.. those shoulders of mine... no padding.. it is all me) and narrow(er) at the hips. Back to the beard. Grew my first at 15... covering up a baby face so I could buy alcohol when I was 16... worked my 1st bar as a bouncer at 17 (tho the legal age was 21).. Guys in Grade 12 would recruit me to buy their booze when I was in Grade 10. But I did shave it off twice in my life... an abortive attempt to become a police officer when I was 19... I had injuries to my ankle and knee a doctor wouldn't sign off on, and that curtailed my law enforcement career... I pursued it (including criminal courses at a college that offered them) until 21. Standard question on applications asked if I had ever applied/been turned down by another police force, if so why... usually vetoed all my attempts. Last place I applied didn't have that question. But I lost out to this guy who had slightly better qualifications... 1st month on the job, drunk shot out the roof of the car he was patrolling in.. bullet just missed his head, metal from bullet holes lacerated his scalp.. he was 1/2 foot shorter than me. I figured.. someone was sending me a message. I took the hint. Anyway, with abandonment of police aspirations, back went the beard... why??? I liked it. Kept it for decades.. Shaved it off on the advice of my lawyer while trying to get custody of my kids.. She said I looked like a criminal with it... hiding. WOW!! Talk about stereotyping. But, I was paying for her advice. And I WANTED my kids. Got them. Back on with the beard. Now they are both grown men, and both have beards. Go figure. Some women like facial hair, and some don't. That is a perfectly natural state of affairs. But, me hiding behind it. No... the beard is a part of me.. been a part of me, and will continue to be... To shave it off to attract a lady. That would be a falsehood. A pretense. THAT would be me hiding me by shaving it off. And, as for cleanliness... I wash it daily.. shampoo and condition it at least twice every week. Some gals get the heebie jeebies thinking it is going to be this rough, scratchy, bristly experience... like 5 o'clock shadow on steroids. Just the opposite. If looked after, it is as soft as the hair on your head. Pleasant surprise when you are expecting the 5 o experience against a cheek, or a thigh... Maybe some gals should convince their men to grow one. Why not give it a try? You never know, you might be missing out on a very pleasant experience. Anyone who converts their men are welcome to post their story. Bearded men (and women for that matter) unite. We are here, we're hairy, and proud!!

Anyway, enough of the personal retrospective.. the tripping the light fantastic down memory lane. I'm 57, 58 this summer. I'm straight, (apparently the reason for posting all this stuff), divorced, a Crohnie.. but on sound footing with it the past 5 years, and I do look like the photo... hold a steady job, but work about 50 - 60 hours a week, and am quite self sufficient.. looking for love in all the wrong places... or right places.. or only places.. BECAUSE... contrary to sexual stereotyping.. I'm a straight male who loves to dance... slow dances are nice... but I also love to jive (and if you have to ask, you don't need to know) and can even manage a lively polka (if the song don't last too long) BUT... unlike the female of the species... straight males don't dance with other straight males (sorry, we aren't that liberated).. so the occasional dance partner would be nice. And, I'm sooooo oooold fashioned, I'm not really comfortable dancing with strangers. So, I have... in the past.. tho I'm trying to break thru this self imposed barrier.. not danced if the person I was connected to didn't/couldn't. I know.. more information than anyone would care to know about yours truly. Like I said before.. the price of admission to the 'happily ever after' club is putting oneself out there. Anyone care for a virtual dance???
 
Writing as I read......Johnny Cash...."broad at the shoulders and narrow at the hip," Big John. Oh, you poor baby, that was the ending to the story. We never saw each other again, but it was great that way. I have this glorious memory, this man who was so kind and loving and had we married or gone together it would have most certainly gone to hell in the old basket at that time. I had more growing to do. The sweetest memories are of unrequited love. Then the imagination can run wild.
So you hoped to become a cop. My first husband was one for a bit and at his height all he had to do was to show up, 6'4" and everything was put right again. He drank. And we were too young. My cousin is a retired lieutenant from Dade County, had 12 guys under her. In the beginning she thought they paid her way too much money but then she got a call about a break in at a huge warehouse and when they went in, a shot rang out and hit the metal wall just above her head so she felt at that moment that her check was just fine. She always carried a gun in her purse and coined the phrase, "jump thru your ass," as in how we were raised to behave when things were given to us since we were both only children......she had a coveted brother come along when she was 14 but who cares by then.
And what woman would not be attracted to a man who fought for and got his children? And has a silken beard that he covets. An aside story here and remembering that this man I'm talking about had major depression.......Mike. So, Mike had a beard forever, he was thin and not tall, and lived in his mother's basement but dated a woman I knew, so she talked him into shaving it off and when he did he thought he looked so old he did not come out of the basement for 2 months, until some hair grew back. He was in his 50's and of course like so often happens to men like this, the woman told him she was breaking up with him and he went back to her house and hung himself in her garage. The moral of this story is absolutely nothing, but I never get to talk about Mike, the only man I could ever just randomly call and pretend I was from Oral Robert's University and wanted to save him, then go on and on and on and have him match me.
Maybe you'll tell me how old you are in the next paragraph. My god, you did!! You are the perfect age!! Right in your prime. Omg, are you kidding me? I'm dancing with you right now! And I hear a loin pressor coming up. I think that this era would be shall we say, "different" to try and date. And you know what they say about bars, which is why you must give a nod to the wishboard and see what happens. And think about ways to go out of your comfort zone for lack of a better phrase. Going to the theater was my way, but think about it. Go watch a rehearsal. You just slide in and watch the freak show. Talk to someone. They'll want you to be in a play, but tell them you can't read. Actually they won't even mess with you and you can relax and take stock. People often go to a bar after rehearsal for a drink or a bite to eat so there's that end of it too. It's much better than church. And if you hate it, leave. Maybe you live in the woods.....maybe you don't have a theater group. Maybe you detest theater people. Oh, just try it, there must be one someplace.
I so wonder what type of work you do. And if you are on FB or not, tho it is a lame, dumb place, it is also an interesting place where women lurk. You are kind of a workaholic and I was also, but my husband fell right in with me, helping me with my cancer support group, by assisting me when I made a film, by being the captain of the volleyball team for Cancer in Life, the works. AND he worked full time and can do ANYTHING. Worked as a senior instrument mechanic for 20 years for Shell Oil, but started out his life as a school teacher and ended it as one. Took an early out from Shell. Pete has a theater minor. Omg. Take a college class! In art. Audit a class, in Art appreciation. Art history. Oh, whoops. Perhaps the women would all be 22. Your sons would be so proud if dad hauled a 22 year old home, so nix that, but find out what older people do for college classes wherever you live in the mountains.
When I thought about a man, back in the day, my concern was his health history. Sounds like yours is good, but for the crohn's. I have not had any difficulty with mine since my first surgery a dozen years ago. I've got some adhesions and there's something going on in there, but it's quiet and doesn't hurt and I'll take it to heaven with me. My gut guy said that he has had plenty of cases where the disease just "flames out." I think metabolism has a lot to do with it too, so the older you get, the less trouble you will have hopefully. Works for me. I'm too fat tho. So there goes the loin pressing.
And if a woman doesn't get thrilled by you bringing her a hard hat full of berries you picked, then she isn't worth your time. If she wants $100 bucks worth of crappy roses, she can earn them on a street corner like every other respectable whore. I say.
You are glib and fun and sassy, but truly, you are hiding under your beard. Oh, tee hee. You are. You are scared of your own face. Poor lad. It's not unlike being scared of your own shadow, now is it? Facial Fear. There must be a code for that. In fact, there is that disorder where people don't recognize themselves or others they know well. Hmmm. That will probably happen to you soon unless you shave it off.
BD in the summer. You sound like a Leo on top of it all. Probably are. I'm an Aries. Name is Constance which is Hebrew for "firm of purpose." Mom picked well. My god your folks are probably still alive. That would be trippy. Can't believe it tho.
I just looked and see that you are a "senior member" of this site. And maybe you have fibromyalgia? Doesn't everyone? Husband has the cornbread ready. Off I go........
 
Hey RN

Tennessee Ernie Ford. Least that is who I recall singing Big John. And I have worked in a mine.

Dancing ones way through the hard times. Nothing wrong with that. We do what we need to .. to get through life. I was hoping for the ..storybook.. ending. Amazing, eh, a man who is a hopeless romantic. I just don't see the hopeless part. Not me. I've been fighting for what I want, for what others need, occasionally just for the sheer hell of it for a long, long time.

So, next week I'll go back to that bar. It won't be the same band, and probably not the same crowd, but i'll give it a whirl and see what happens. And if the lady I gave the note to who looks like Diane Keaton is there, maybe I'll ask her to dance. And forget I gave her my number. Aside from that, I'll carry on being myself.. beard and all.. and those who like me may like me a lot... and those who don't.. can kiss my... well, you get the idea.
 
Kev,

The world is made up of all different types of people, so yes, what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for all.

if you're over the age of 50 though, well, at that age, single women outnumber single men by about 10 to 1, so if you're experiencing some difficulties finding someone, it may be more of a matter of self-confidence.

My husband's mom died recently of Stomach cancer, and his dad was remarried inside of the year. So was his uncle after his wife died. His grandfather is in his 70s and after his grandmother passed away, well, he now has 2 girlfriends, one for the mornings and one for the evenings. If I died, I have no doubt my husband would be remarried inside of a year as well. All the male members of his family have extremely high libidos, and surviving alone is simply not an acceptable option, so they do whatever it takes to find a partner (or partners) as quickly as possible. Their libidos literally compel them to succeed.

Same with my dad, who was in his 50s with a colostomy bag after surviving colon cancer. After breaking up with his psychotic "black widow" GF (who's previous husbands had all died under questionable circumstances), gave himself 1 month to find a new GF, and he did too. He signed himself up on every single dating site, and dumped anyone who didn't agree to meet by the 3rd email correspondence. The rest he met for 20 minute coffee dates at either Starbucks or Barnes and Nobles. He went on about 50 "mini-dates" before meeting his current GF. The chemistry between them was instantaneous, and that was it.

Neither my dad or anyone in my husband's family drinks, and would never go to bars or clubs. Dancing? Sure, but not where there's alcohol. They all found their new partners through dating sites, church, and local community functions.

There's very few people over the age of 50 who don't have any health problems, and besides, Canada has socialized medicine, so that's not really a deterrent or obstacle.

I probably wouldn't call a guy I had just met one night in a bar, no matter how much I liked him. I would not risk having my interest misinterpreted as a "booty call". I did ask my husband out for our first date, but that was only after he had asked me out numerous times, and we had been good friends for over a year first. Making the "first move" is just not something I would normally do, and only did because I really needed a date for that Xmas party, and I knew he understood it for what it was.

Pick up lines? You'd have to be a computer geek using an obscure Star Wars reference for me to respond positively to a pick-up line. If spoken in Klingon, a Star Trek reference would be equally acceptable, but anything else would just piss me off because I've heard them all 100 times over, and so has every other even moderately attractive woman over the age of 30.

Just take a good look and see if you can find something that indicates a mutual interest or common ground to begin a conversation, or a sincere, non-sexual compliment (meaning, compliment the unique design of her purse rather than her huge knockers). Alternatively, ask a question, but NOT a cheesy line, such as "Do you come here often?" Instead something more like "Do you know whether there's live music here on Thursday nights?"

I personally have nothing against facial hair. Over the years, my husband's had all types. Beards, mustaches, goatees, etc. He's even shaved his head. I change my hair style all the time, so why shouldn't he? Variety's the spice of life.

I find it interesting how much perceptions can differ. You felt uncomfortable because a woman told you she wanted a man to take charge and control her "bad" behavior? I would take that to mean someone's been reading "50 Shades of Grey" and open to a little sexual experimentation. If you're not into role playing, then I'm guessing that going to comic.com dressed as your favorite furry would also be "off the table"? Does the expression, "Please be Cinderella" mean anything in particular to you? Oh well, to each his own.
 
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Again everyone, thanks for the insight.. the other points of view.. the counterpoints even.

First off.. totally unrelated.. but to everyone who has ever read one of my posts, threads or comments where I mentioned.. not trusting my memory.. here is a perfect example. It was not Tennessee Ernie Ford (he did 16 tons.. another fine mining song). It was Jimmie Dean, the sausage guy... who sang Big John. Came to me today in the middle of my work day, so I HAD (almost manic about getting my facts straight) to get that out of the way.

Hair... I love hair. My great grandmother grew hers down to her (oh, there goes my memory again... uh, starts with 'A'.. ends with 'S'... oh ,yeah... ANKLES.. what did you think I was going to say about great grandma? Shame on you.. ).. My grandmother had it down to her... uh, lower back. And, I figure, either our creator or Darwin imbued us with hair. I would even go so far to say the European 'natural' look to ladies underarms is a better option. And the whole Brazilian nonsense is just that... nonsense. I'd pass on certain activities IF there was a chance that I would have to explain 'whisker burn'.

I haven't read 50 Shades of Grey... Sounds like I'm missing out. I'll have to look into it. But, in this case... I sense that a sexual foray wasn't behind it. The lady had an abusive father... physically violent, and verbally demeaning. All of her prior male relationships involved men who were violent and demeaning to her. I sensed there was a trend there.

I'm not into any of those aspects of a relationship (physical or otherwise) that involve some of those 'ation' words.. humiliation, degradation, urination, defecation. None of that holds any interest for me. Everyone is different, God Bless, and to each their own.
But, role playing... like, not into S/M, bondage, that sort of thing.. but if someone was to want to be tied up in a role playing environment... or to use a 'cat of nine tails' made up of strands of yarn.. no problem. Hell, I got a trunk full of outfits we can get into. OK, way TMI... ;-)

As for confidence... Actually, I thought I had mis-played my opportunity the other night from being too confident. Here's a true story.. from my wild N wooly younger days. This very attractive woman I'd seen.. and wanted... very nice lady... well, I heard she'd just became engaged... so, I decided... better make my move before she ties the knot. She worked one of the bars where I worked as a bouncer. Like myself, and other staff, she was one of the last to leave. I pulled a spark plug wire off my car so it wouldn't start. She heard me trying to leave... pulled her car over.. and offered me a drive home. I got in... then offered to buy her a coffee or something to thank her.. or said we could skip the coffee and just go parking... I still recall the look on her face as she asked me in a very surprised, borderline outraged tone if I knew she was engaged.. was I joking or was I serious... I answered in one word... 'Deadly'... Spent the night parking (ah, the good old days)... in the morning went for breakfast... she broke off her engagement, and we were married less than 2 years later. Oh, and I put the spark plug wire back on and then returned it to the girl who owned it.. I had only had it for the night as I was tuning it for her... after all... she was amongst a large number of women that I was 'sleeping' with... (not proud of that part of my life... but I was young, virile, handsome, and in the perfect occupation at nite to get laid as often and as frequently as nature would permit... sometimes 2 or 3 different partners a night... a total, shameless wanton).
I didn't have to pickup women... they picked me up. I never used a line on a woman ever.. I would merely say exactly what I wanted, intended, etc., and it would invariably work. So, confidence was never my problem. I just have to keep in mind I'm no longer the hard bodied, young stud bouncer that women would drool over, or even fight over (yup... that happened on more than one occasion... and folks, I'm neither delusional nor making this stuff up.. ) I had more sex in my early 20's than most will have in a lifetime.
Someone said... practice makes perfect... that is not always the case. I knew how to do the act, but I didn't become a 'lover' until I was 22, almost 23. A woman 17 years my senior took me under her... wing.. as it were. Her tutoring was what made me a lover.

So, it is not a case of being an 'ingenue' ... I'm good with words, if I wanted to use your standard pickup line.. or my variation on it... credit me with being a good enough 'word' smith to do so. I don't now because I don't want anything that is derived/gained from something.. phony.. fake... I put my 'bad boy' past behind me before I turned 30, and I never regretted it. I am 'ashamed' of being so free with my willy back in the day, but I've learned to forgive myself my young transgressions. So, that isn't what's going on.

As for the elder generation (glad that I was not included for the time being) with that group, God Bless them. Years ago, my uncles wifes father became a widower. All of his grown daughters had decided what was best for him.. they arranged to sell the family home,, put the money from it in his account... and set him up in a little efficiency unit. Yeah, they had it all planned. He would live out his widow(er)hood there, all by himself. Well, he had other ideas.. and soon he had a 20 something g/f who loved him, and all of his money. He knew what she was after, but he figured he had some good years left in him... and that he may as well go out with a bang. He marshaled his finances so that his g/f didn't/couldn't get it all in one dose... and smiled on his way to the bank every day. His grown daughters were outraged... but he was sane, and able to make his own decisions... and he decided he was not going to leave 'them' anything by the time it was his time to go.. Again, to each their own. This relationship lasted until he passed on.
 
I forgot about that song. However, that particular link you posted isn't Johnny Cash, it's Jimmy Dean.

Yes, the singer Jimmy Dean. The person who posted the video is saying that Johnny Cash is "Big Bad John", not that he's the one singing the song. LOL!

At husband actually used to sing that song to his daughters, along with the 16 ton song, oh, and "Trailers for sale or rent". Umm, not really my generation.
 
Yeah, I know, I'm older than dirt. But, I like that song... and Jimmy (sorry to any fans about mis-spelling his name earlier) did another... can't recall the title.. about his daughter growing up.. turning into a woman.. getting married. Yeah, older than dirt and also a sentimental old sap too. When 'we' learned we were expecting our first child, I kind of wanted a daughter... yeah, you aren't supposed to wish one way or the other.. but I did.
Both were boys, and I was so.. thankful.. they survived the ordeals their entry into this world was... absolute horror stories I won't go into here.. that I forgot all about my wish. Then, after the divorce, with 2 little boys to look after, I was so happy they were boys and not girls. I don't know how single parents with children of the opposite gender cope. Was hard enough taking my sons to public washrooms... funny how life goes in directions we never predict... and things have a way of just working out for the best.

If I can get my scanner working, I'm going to try to scan in a full length photo of me...

Oh, and hair again (gone tomorrow). I have hair.. thick, unmanageable, unruly hair. A big old mane of it. In summer time it is like wearing a wool cap. If I cut it short, it goes anyway it wants... sort of like a badger having a bad hair day. If I let it grow long, it gets in my eyes... flaps around.. always been a pain and a nuisance. But there are men who would kill for it. Me? At times, I was so sick of it, I shaved it all off completely. It was heaven. Clean, cool, comfortable... but it took 1/2 hour to shave every night, and 1 shave = 1 razor, so I just let it grow back. But, if there was a way to make it go away without having to shave everynight, it would disappear tomorrow. Yeah, crazy too. So, to all you guys doing the combover, life (or hair) isn't greener on the other side of the street. Well, you know what I mean. But, have a woman run her fingers thru it, or play with it, and I am damned near purring. Turns me into absolute putty in their hands. Go figure. I go to hair salons Vs barbers simply because to have a woman cut it just sends me. And I just chuckle when they try to run the clippers through it and they just bog down and die... (the clippers that is, stylists only die if I pass gas).
 
Flies time when you're having fun. As I hooked up the scanner, it dawned on me that now would be as good a time as any to 'update' my profile avatar. But, I left the batteries inside my digital camera, they corroded, so now it is a paper weight. I used the built in webcam to capture a shot... and, voila, I'm 5 years older... and deeper in debt... (Why did I have to mention Tennessee Ernie Ford earlier.. if I hear 'owe my soul to the company store' one more time, I'm going to go insane.. ooops, there it is.. too late). And, I just had a hair cut. She only left the grey... closer than ever to being able to play Santa Claus at a Childrens Hospital. So, here is me... a few years back... a few grey hairs less... 6' 3".. and just cut N paste today's avatar to the body, and Mr DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up...
 

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Kev,

The 50 shades trilogy was at the very top of every single best selling book list throughout all of 2012, and pretty much still is. I only read it because so many people I know kept referring to it, and I like to keep current. Frankly, I haven't exactly figured out the fascination because I found it rather dull, but if it had any of those "ation" words you listed above, it wouldn't have made #1 of the New York Times Best Seller list. I think it was an attempt at portraying something supposedly resembling S&M, but the author didn't even bothering doing the research to find out, well, anything about the genre. Just silly sexual fantasies, about as tame and mild as it gets.

As the biggest #1 best selling book of the year, it's been a "hot" topic of conversation, at least where we live. So yes, I still think that may have very well have been what your date was referring to.

But also illustrates another reason why you should never "badmouth" an ex when dating someone you just met. If her dad and all her exes were overbearing and abusive, well, we all make mistakes, but anyone who keeps making the same mistake over and over, time and time again, the problem usually lies within themselves. After all, that's the impression she gave you, right?

I've never shaved because I have baby fine hair, blonde as it gets and totally transparent, but oddly enough, most of the guys in our cycling club shave not only their face, but arms and legs as well. We're talking full grown adult men, the majority of who are also straight. I have no idea why, and am too afraid of the answer to ask, but apparently, this is something that's become a "thing", even with men who aren't cyclists. Many men apparently are also shaving their chests and other body parts as well.

I'm not that into current trends, but there's a fine line between being perceived as an individualist, and hopelessly outdated. but I don't think facial hair ever really goes out of style. It's more a personal preference.

Oh, I believe you about women being the ones to pick you up, rather than vice versa, just like my husband when he was singing in the clubs, but that was just his way of dealing with the depression of his divorce. One time drunken hook ups rarely lead to anything more, although I have seen it happen. Again, my husband's never talked about It. Not to me, or anyone else. He was usually drunk at the time, and you can forget almost anything if you don't dwell on it. So I'm not even sure he remembers. It's not like he's ashamed, he just has hundreds of other memories and subjects that interest him more.

If what you desire is a partner, and don't feel that lack of self-confidence is what's been holding you back, then what do you think it is? Again, over the age of 50, single available women far outnumber single available men, so the statistics are on your side.

I mean, your looks are fine and seem to have a a pretty good head on your shoulders, so if you don't feel you've been able to make a connection with someone you care about, why do you feel that is?
 
Well, I'm beginning to get the impression that part of it is bad luck, or as Blue Rodeo put it so well "bad timing is all".. There have been a couple of 'players'... some who needed $$$ for new cars... another lady... BIG$$$$ for "implants".. (she showed me the originals, and I didn't think she needed more, but I skedaddled before I was tempted to put that theory to the test).. A couple departed when my health came up... and two took off when I told them my beard was a permanent fixture. One very nice lady had the same name as one of my sisters (don't go there) while another.. her son had my name (what are the freakin odds). I do tend to think I come on too strong. My 'direct' approach (as covered almost verbatim before) is a little.. disconcerting.. off putting.. as if, in a world where everyone else uses pickup lines, where do I get off using an 'honest" approach. A rather disconcerting thought is that... ladies of my generation.. have come to the conclusion that 'men' are more trouble than "we" are worth (can't say I blame em) and have decided to opt out. After all, if they want to dance, they can dance with each other... and with a good supply of batteries, and a 'personal' massager, they are good to go (or whatever). What do the women on here think? Are men worth the effort?

Oh, I knew what '50 Shades" was... I just don't like jumping on bandwagons. Despite all of the partners I had in the day, my personal preferences are pretty 'tame' compared to things I've heard, or been asked to participate in. I've done the multiple thing a few times, but it is tricky to pull it off without it almost becoming... impersonal.. (like, I don't care if you are freakin Superman... us guys just don't multi-task too well.. so somebody 'occasionally' gets left out of the loop.. it is more a sheer ego thing than it is sexual).. I never did a full blown orgy thing, nor swapping, though there was a couple interested. I am enough of an old fuddy duddy not to care to tag in/out with another man around. A lady I knew and respected wanted me to do something to her I found 'demeaning' so on that request I took a pass. I know, I know, I'm being judgemental, but it is about what I feel/don't feel comfortable with too. Another stated that I had the perfect sized hands and wrists for another activity... and I contemplated it... I mean, who wouldn't want to please the person they're with.. but all I could envision was a trip to the "ER" and the word "stuck".. so I respectfully declined. And, as for the recent lady who was looking for a bad boy... well, I was 'WILD' when I was younger, but I was never the bad guy.. the 'bully'. I was the guy who would jump in and tackle the bully if he acted up. It is a fine distinction, but there it is. And, since this is the Member Section, I feel free to discuss what happened.. but I haven't given away anything that would allow anyone to identify a woman that I have dated. How on earth did I ever end up off on this tangent?
 
Some women don't like the direct approach, but I don't understand why.. I would much rather know what the other person is thinking and I like the security of knowing they are going to tell it like it is rather than me having to second guess the situation. I don't play games and I certainly don't like it when a guy does it. Granted, any type of dating involves some amount of game playing when you are getting to know someone..it is definitely a dance within itself..but the overt stuff is annoying. If you are who you are by being direct, stick with that. Otherwise, you are pretending to be someone else and therefore you will get someone else in return rather than the real chick you are interested in.

In my early 20's, a friend told me that if I kept saying some of the things that I did, I would only keep scaring guys off. My response was, maybe so, but the ones that stick around are the only ones I'm interested in anyway. :)

That's my take.
 
Actually, you may have inadvertently touched on something that may be playing a part. I'm a.. 'unique'.. individual.. (and that is putting it politely... less polite would be to say I'm an 'oddball' at best.. ) and I think some don't know what to make of me, while others may be of the notion that I simply can't be the person I say I am. I can understand that to a degree... we all tend to get a little more leery with age.. and most of us have been burned a time or two.. or three.. or (well, you get the idea).. But, my limited male 'logic' runs along the same lines as your response to your friend. If I put up a false front... then I'm defeating my whole purpose... sabotaging my efforts. All I could hope to 'attract' with a false front is either someone else who is false as well, OR someone who is genuine, and genuinely attracted to the falsehood I created. What is the point of that? Neither case is 'winning' (as poor dear departed Charlie would say..oh, he isn't departed.. Are you sure?) What kind of lunatic pursues a course where he can't possibly win? Not this one. I may be (OK, no maybe about it) crazy, but I say it is a good kind of crazy. I was talking this over with myself just the other night, and myself totally agreed with me. We hardly ever quarrel, and when we do, I let him win.

Yeah.. that could be part of the problem. I'm either too crazy to deal with, or too good to be true. And, in a case of a tie vote, the deciding judges opt to go with the former.
 
kev,

Assuming your real name is Kevin, well, I have 3 Kevin's in my family and my husband has 2. It's a common name and more likely that anyone you would meet is bound to have a Kevin or 2 in their family. My husband and I also have common names, and relatives in both our families that share our names as well.

And the predators looking for $$$? You're better off with a hooker than a con artist. Hookers are cheaper, perform better work, and at least tell you the price upfront.

What's wrong with the direct approach? Alcohol impairs judgement and can make you think someone is receptive, when they're not. Or lose enough of your inherent inhibitions to where you just don't care. Although the direct approach may be worded in various ways, it usually boils down to a crude and disgustingly vulgar form of, "Let's skip the small talk and go right to bed."

What's the harm? The harm to me is it makes me feel violated, to the point wanting to go home, take a shower and throw up a few times. Then I want to go hunt down their parents and slap them for not doing a better job. It's very upsetting. I hate bars/clubs and can hardly bring myself to even walk in one.

Especially if drinking, pickup lines are a safer bet. They may often be cheesy, but still preferable to obscenely offensive. If nothing else, helps preserve the veneer of civility, which has already worn thin enough.

I don't drink and never once even went to a club to hear my husband perform. I met him when his band was playing in my hotel lounge, and kept running into him afterwards -- at the theater, parks, fund raisers, community and sporting events, etc. We became close friends long before dating. We still go dancing all the time, just not at bars.

There's plenty of women over the ages of 40 and 50 seeking partners. When they say they've given up on men, what they mean is that they're sick and tired of getting burnt too. It's more of a self-protection mechanism, not that they've actually developed a preference for vibrators or the company of other women. Maybe a few, but not most, and it's also just what they say.

Only other thing I can think of is to remember that insanity has been defined as doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results each time. So if you're not obtaining the results you desire, you might want to try a completely different approach.

I wish you the best of luck. :)
 
What's wrong with the direct approach? Alcohol impairs judgement and can make you think someone is receptive, when they're not. Or lose enough of your inherent inhibitions to where you just don't care. Although the direct approach may be worded in various ways, it usually boils down to a crude and disgustingly vulgar form of, "Let's skip the small talk and go right to bed."

What's the harm? The harm to me is it makes me feel violated, to the point wanting to go home, take a shower and throw up a few times. Then I want to go hunt down their parents and slap them for not doing a better job. It's very upsetting. I hate bars/clubs and can hardly bring myself to even walk in one.

I must have missed something. To me "the direct approach" has nothing to do with an invitation to have sex after an exchange of names. It's more of a I'll speak my mind as I see it rather than sugarcoat something to intice a coy reaction.
 
I must have missed something. To me "the direct approach" has nothing to do with an invitation to have sex after an exchange of names. It's more of a I'll speak my mind as I see it rather than sugarcoat something to intice a coy reaction.

Have you actually been in a bar talking to a guy, who you believe had something in his mind other than sex? Or more specifically, having sex with you, preferably in a wide variety of positions? Because unless that guy happens to be gay, I sure haven't. Even the ones who are polite enough not to say it, I can see it in their eyes and tell by the changes in their breathing patterns.

In fact, I've run into guys a couple days after they've propositioned me while they were drinking, and after confronting and repeating their words back to them verbatim, they are usually shocked. Not that they had such nasty, nasty thoughts, but that they actually vocalized them to me. They honestly believed they said something completely different.

There was one study that claimed that sex runs through the minds of most men every 7 seconds. It's not really that often, but you can't honestly believe that men ask women out, approach them in bars, or anywhere else, for the purpose of indulging in some sparkling conversation over drinks/dinner, do you? Again, maybe a few, but not very many.

The topic was also "pickup lines" versus the "direct approach." Aside from an overture to having sex, what other purpose could a "pickup line" possibly serve?
 
I didn't realize there was a topic to this particular discussion that was focused only on pickup lines versus the direct approach.

If you are concerned about men thinking only about sex when first meeting someone, then don't bother leaving your house.

I didn't realize that Kev told this woman he wanted to have sex with her and that was his direct approach failing. Sheesh!
 
I didn't realize there was a topic to this particular discussion that was focused only on pickup lines versus the direct approach.
If you are concerned about men thinking only about sex when first meeting someone, then don't bother leaving your house.
I didn't realize that Kev told this woman he wanted to have sex with her and that was his direct approach failing. Sheesh!

Well, I'm married to a husband with an extremely high libido, so we don't really need to leave the house, but even though the topic was pickup lines vs. the direct approach, doesn't mean those are the only 2 options.

Now that you mention it though, I never really dated, ever. I don't drink and never cared much for bars, restaurants or movie theaters, but fortunately, there are many other ways of meeting and interacting in activities with potential partners. Sports, clubs, church, fund raisers, etc. You don't necessarily have to date 50 frogs to meet your prince. You can if you want to, but I never did.

It was pretty obvious from practically the first minute I met my husband that he was thinking about sex, and vice versa. There was a lot of chemistry between us, but I never said that was a concern. I just don't respond well to either one of those 2 options, (meaning, I don't appreciate getting propositioned for sex by someone I just met) but the "pickup lines" are usually a lot less traumatizing--and there are those who do respond positively to them. It just depends on what you're looking for.

Kev doesn't seem to have much difficulties in finding willing sexual partners, but what he said he would like it to include the trappings of romance and possibly love, and doesn't feel he should have to opt out just because of a chronic condition.

What I've been trying to say, (as subtly as possible) is that clubs and bars may not be the ideal environments for seeking fulfillment of that desire, because especially over the age of 40, well, you end up having to deal with far too many predators, cheaters, alcoholics, lunatics, and those only seeking a one night stand, or a FWB. Most older people seeking relationships usually look elsewhere.
 
What I've been trying to say, (as subtly as possible) is that clubs and bars may not be the ideal environments for seeking fulfillment of that desire, because especially over the age of 40, well, you end up having to deal with far too many predators, cheaters, alcoholics, lunatics, and those only seeking a one night stand, or a FWB. Most older people seeking relationships usually look elsewhere.

I agree. :)
 
OK, I thought this thread/topic would die a natural death (peter out, as it were... Oooh, did I just make a sexual inuendo... better your endo than mine.. sorry, couldn't pass up the chance to make a funny).. After, seems it veered off its original topic/purpose. But I never expected this amount of feedback, interest, debate.. and, to a great extent.. to get a view from the female perspective. And, that intrigues me. I think any straight man (not to snipe our gay brethern) would admit that us guys really don't know what women want, or how their thought processes work... and some of us are interested in learning stuff like that. OK, where is the old idiot going with this. When I first joined this website... I was ASHAMED... felt like a leper... used a fake avatar.. but my real name. Kevin from the old irish.. caohmin. Kev for short. I soon... outgrew.. my shame, my self imposed leprosy.. thought/felt that the only way to beat this disease was to put a face.. my face... and a name.. my name.. to it. I'm not ashamed anymore.
I .. back to original point.. thought that this thread should just go away. I've revealed a lot of graphic, personal, private, downright embarrassing stuff in this particular thread. But, then I thought (hmmm, thats' a lot of thinking.. I must have taken my vitamins).. OK... IF I am facing challenges, puzzles, riddles, questions, about trying to... develop.. or find... a relationship.. then other Crohnies have or will face similar challenges, etc..
So, hell, let's see if the old duffer can pull it off (OK, you all can make your own jokes at this point.. feel free.. have a ball).. Sort of like Sex and the Single Crohnie.. except I'm not seeking a sexual partner... or just a sexual partner... or just a partner to have sex with... What I'm trying to discover is whether a male, closing in on 60, with Crohns, can find (is everyone sitting down for this?) true love. Or a legitimate 'relationship. Not FWB, casual sex, one night stands, whatever. Those latter options lost all their appeal. Hell, if I consider myself too old to smoke pot (and I'm not passing judgement, I am making a statement about how I perceive myself.. not trying to set a mandate.. OK, there's a chance for everyone to make another funny... mandate.. man DATE.. get it?) I MUST consider myself too old for a one night stand. One reason is that I don't want to parade my surgical scars in front of an array of women who don't care for me.. okay?

Sooooo, anyone any objections? Wanna start a pool... see if the old man finds love or falls flat on his... whatever. I figure... hell, if I can do it... then any Crohnie should be able to. If that is what they want out of life. now that it appears I have a life to live, it would be nice to have that... significant other.. special someone.. to share it with.

Oh, one other clarification.. My direct approach. I wasn't trying to pick the lady up for a one night anything... I was hoping for a chance to talk.. to go out.. to see what may happen... But, obviously, I didn't make that clear to her, or to anyone on here. There is my 1st mistake.. Lesson learned.

There was something else.. but I've forgotten it... another good reason not to use lines.
 
Oh, one other clarification.. My direct approach. I wasn't trying to pick the lady up for a one night anything... I was hoping for a chance to talk.. to go out.. to see what may happen... But, obviously, I didn't make that clear to her, or to anyone on here. There is my 1st mistake.. Lesson learned.

It was clear to me what you meant, but maybe because I am the same type of person. (my comment up above was meant to be sarcastic) I bet if you were to run into that same lady, you might still have a chance. Don't change your approach, just maybe your location. ;)

Start a pool--Yes! "Love for Kev Pool" Ha!
 
OK.. SEE? SEE!!! Unless someone thinks along the same lines... it is open to being.. misconstrued. OK, another thing.. the pool... if I win, I wouldn't want the winnings of the pool.. the monetary ones.. or the virtual monetary one. You know what I mean???

Other point.. (OK. more than one).. Men and our thoughts on sex. Yes.. all the time. We start @ puberty... and it hasn't stopped yet. Every 7 seconds... try 6 or less. So, yes, we do think of sex, we do picture practically any/every woman we meet between puberty... and, oh, they closed the lid on the coffin... did you catch the rack on her??? Yes, we are pigs... or actually, we are animals. I think folks, or at least polite society.. doesn't want to think of itself... regardless of gender.. in that context. too bad. we are.
We are hard wired... people think that a few paltry thousand.. ok, hundred years of what we call civilization negates what has driven us and our ancestors ever since we crawled out of primordial ooze. BS. So, yes, if a man looks at a woman, and finds her 'attractive' (or vice versa) sexual thoughts WILL occur. And society can't make it stop. Maybe make it go undercover. But not stop. Reproductive imperative. Can't change it. Can one control it? Sure. We all do... most of the time. The thoughts may run wild, but we don't... usually. Under normal circumstances. Every year there are approx 250,000 rapes that go un-reported. In prison. Gender, or gender focus, have no bearing on it. get non imprisoned people... in a bar setting.. or office party.. or stuck elevator, and a lot of social convention goes out the window. Add alcohol, and watch out. Been there, done that, been done too. Tell you a little story.. from my days as a bouncer. There was this guy... he had had too much, but (and this was back in the bad old days when you needed a reason to toss someone out OTHER than just having had too much booze) he hadn't crossed the 'line'. I saw him approach a table full of my regular women (OK, before ANYBODY screams, it was the term we used at the time in regard to ladies who regularly frequented a bar, were little or no trouble, and attractive enough to bring in a lot of men... and in the old days, men bought all/most of the alcohol consumed, women hardly ever payed for their drinks themselves.. so we welcomed those women, AND we made sure they were protected while inside our bar).. so I made a beeline over to make sure that this drunk didn't do anything to make any of these regulars want to leave. As I arrived... I heard his clever pickup line.. I told you he was drunk, right? What he said was "What would you girls say to a little .... (acronym for Found Under Carnal Knowledge).. Before I could intercede... the ladies handled it for themselves, in unison, by saying... loud and clear... Get lost little (acronym). With .. ego.. deflated, it was a piece of cake for me to toss him out. I don't recall him ever returning to that bar.

Darn. Forgot what the other point was going to be. Again. Senility, or years of meds???
 
Finally remembered the other point. That, if I was hoping to find a nice gal pal, then my choice of the bar scene is probably not the best. Here's the thing.. I don't go to bars. I haven't been to one in can't remember how long. I didn't go to that bar on that night to pick up (or fail to pickup) a woman. Sheer circumstance took me to that place. And when I felt the chemistry.. realized that the physical attraction was mutual, I tried.. and failed. But, at least I tried. And to see that look in her eye... a look I haven't seen in some time, well... that made my night. And, on top of that, I had so much fun. You have no idea what a tonic that night was... on various levels. I was really very down in the dumps. The pancreas issue... coming off the mesalamine after 7 years, I was major hurting on the inside. Anyway, for clarification... I had joined an online dating site. With my work what it is, my health the way it is... I thought that it would be a useful tool in finding someone... since going to bars and picking up woman is neither my cup of tea nor my forte (apparently). Been on that site for 3 months. Worst experience of my life (Crohns excluded). I wouldn't recommend it. I am toying with either discontinuing to go this route, or re-vamping my profile... leaning more towards the former than latter.
Aside from an online dating site... if anyone can offer an viable alternative (smart or otherwise) I am all ears.
 
I've seen your picture... you are more than just ears. Hahaha!

With your love of dancing, why not sign up for ballroom dancing or salsa or something like that? It involves a partner and is a different avenue to meet new people.
 
Oh, I did that.. Now, this part is going to stretch my credibility limits with everyone, but the 'instructor' (who I didn't know, and didn't bribe) paired me up with a tall, Russian/slavic hard bodied beauty with a gorgeous face... and an accent to die for.. in her late 20's, early 30's. He paired us that way because, in heels, she was close to 6'.. It wasn't Salsa, or Tango... it was fast (2 step N 3 step) Jive.. at the Rodeo Lounge, in Dartmouth. All of the other women... there were a few... were vertically challenged. Too short for me to dance with. The Russian gal... had a thing for older men (or so she claimed)... and was here on a work visa. Her working occupation? Everybody ready??? Exotic Dancer... also at a club in Dartmouth. Lessons cost $6 a nite. I attended one, and never went back. I also locked up all sharp implements and hid my shoelaces N belt. (OK, that last part I made up).. Regrettably... the rest of the story is true. 100%
Hmmm, maybe I'm jinxed?
 
Kev,

I've been out of town the past few days, helping a friend out at her hotel. Your thread's a little personal and I haven't had sufficient privacy to respond. Will try a little later. Just letting you know. :)
 
Thanks. And, it isn't a little personal. It is painfully personal. Biggest stretch for me since I 'came out' with my Crohns. Thing of it is... as embarrassing as it is (and believe me, it is embarrassing.. including the laughable parts).. Well, like, hmmm, this is going to sound very strange... even for me.. but, it is like when I posted daily (or almost) diaries of every new drug I tried... I wanted to put a face.. on the reality of living, dealing, with life when you're a Crohnie, you know? Dating at any age can be a challenge, factor in Crohns and it's a totally exponential experience. And at my age. Wowee! Talk about a personal... challenge. Maybe it is too late for me, and with my health issues (past, but still a factor... can't promise that my little LDN pill won't stop working someday) it is proving to be quite the challenge. But facing challenges is part of our 'collective', and if my... perils, challenges, embarrassment, failure or even hopefully success, encourages just one other person... then airing my laundry on the 'relative' safety of this site is worth the risk. You know? And, who knows, others have opened up, shared stories and offered advice, encouragement, wisdom.. even joined in the laughter at my expense. Why not? I do. If you can't laugh at yourself... and since I'm laughing at myself, I'm not laughing at someone elses expense. And laughter is the best medicine, except in the bedroom. There it is just bad form.
 
Maybe this thread has reached the end of it's useful life expectancy. But, if that is the case, I wanted to add this bit. I joined an online dating site... since I typically don't go to bars, where else is one to find a potential date, girl friend, significant other these days. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. Anyway, I joined this site... did my best to give as accurate a depiction of myself, who I was, what my goals were, and what I was looking for. Despite that, and my best intentions, my experiences in online dating have been just about a total disaster. So, in the hopes of educating others, here is a rundown on my experiences.

First, I joined the site with a naivete, gullibility that, despite my years, seems to be an integral part of me. I take folks AND websites at face value. The former.. I dunno... just always sought the best in folks. As for websites, I should know better. I didn't approach it with the professional cynicism my 20 year career in IT should have armed me with. Just tunnel vision, I guess. Never stopped to analyze what motivates or drives a website. And, of course, I have challenges going into any form of dating. To be perfectly frank, look what the odds of my finding what I am after realistically are:
Age: I'm nearing 60. Who'd a thunk a man my age would still be trying to date. Limits me to a very specific age range... and to dealing with women who aren't novices, and probably have had more than a fair share of past dealings with less than scrupulous guys. I am different, but to a lot of women; I'm just another guy singing the same old tune. There's a limit.

Appearance: I'm no longer the handsome young fellow I used to be. Beard is mostly white/grey, hair is heavily tinged with grey... crows feet the size of eagle talons, and I carry a few extra pounds around my middle. Not bad for a guy my age, but not movie star good looks anymore (yeah, I know.. egotistical.. but, I was a handsome devil when I was young.. and to me... false modesty is just another form of B/S. I try not to lie).

Smoking: I smoke. I smoke often. Helps with pain, and every time I try to quit I flare. So, I smoke. I could try weed, but then I couldn't drive commercially. Besides, I think I'm just too old for weed. So, nothing against it for others, but I stick to cigarettes. It limits who I can or will date. 80% or more of people are non smokers these days, rules them out. I have had people who have contacted me online to ask me out, then ask when I'm going to quit smoking. My typical response... I plan on being cremated, so it will be only after I'm dead for a while. Many don't get my sense of humor or sarcasm.

Health: I have Crohns. In has been in check for over 5 years, but there are no guarantees it won't return. And, I've had 2 close brushes with cancer recently, plus I've just been diagnosed diabetic (Type II, and very mild). Still in all, that is a lot to take in.

Finances: Was a time when money was no object. IT paid really well, especially after the Y2K crisis that wasn't drove salaries through the ceiling. But, Crohns ended that, and now I'm a commercial truck driver who only makes a paltry $50k per year. Lots of people... not just women... look at the earning potential of anyone they're interested in.

Objective: I'm looking for a relationship.. a 'gal' pal who wants to date, but date someone with potential for commitment. I'm not interested in jumping into a relationship, or into bed. But, a lot of folks just want fun N games, casual dating, or just casual sex. Everyone has their own goals, objectives, issues.. whatever. Finding someone like minded is no easy challenge.

Here's the thing. I went to this site. Thought that it honestly was trying to match folks with like minded individuals. But, I've noticed something. Every time I message one lady, the site pops up with a list of another 1/2 dozen or so women as suggestions. At first, I thought it was trying to be helpful. now, I suspect it is trying to generate traffic on its site between more and more people. The more traffic, the more activity. The more activity, the more time people will visit. The more they visit, the more hits the site will have. The more hits, the more ads on the site will rake in. So, these 'suggestions' do more to improve the sites bottom line than they do to foster good results for members. I also noticed the personality profiles, the needs assessments, all these 'extras' the site provides to assist members in learning their individual strengths, goals, weaknesses, etc., oddly enough... appear to offer identical results for every member on here. So, you look at that... we should all hook up .. because we are all identically 'matched'. So, it slowly dawned on me.. this site is just all smoke and mirrors, it is a meet market, or a 'meat' market. Plain and simple. Now, the 'rules' folks play by.. they are pretty unusual.

When my sons became young men, what I feared was... they meet one person, date her over and over... get too serious too fast.. end up with STD's, teen pregnancy, or a broken heart. I didn't want that for my kids. What parent would? What I wanted to see was they would date a number of different people, take things slow, and if they 'found' the right one.. then see that person exclusively... slowly... see what happened. That's it

But, this site. Folks want to hook up fast, become exclusive, not talk to other people, not see other people. I think that is just asking for a hook-up or heartbreak to happen. I don't want to play that way, I think it is too dangerous, too accelerated. But everyone considers my attitude, approach.. unrealistic. Anyone else tend to see it that way????
 
What matters is what you want. If they want to go straight to the bedroom, then say no and either hope that they are willing to wait and/or continue on your search. If they flat out say that they want to be exclusive even though you just met them that day, say no and again you can hope that they will wait for you and/or keep looking.

For me I like to have fun and be friends with someone first. I want to know that we get along before we move in together or get married or whatever. I don't like dating multiple people though. I always took it one person at a time and I would prefer the same with the person I was dating. If the guy I was seeing was seeing other people while I was being exclusive, I'd prefer to not know about it honestly.

I know above you were being honest about yourself when you were describing yourself but there really wasn't anything positive. If you downplay yourself then it shows that you lack confidence and many women are attracted to confidence.

If you smoke fine, do it outside and brush your teeth when you come back in and smoke in your smoking jacket (so it doesn't get the smell on all of your clothes). Crohn's is treatable and so is Type 2 Diabetes so that may not be a problem. $50k a year, fine, more than I'll ever make (my dad raised a family of 6 people with $25k/year so 50K is plenty in my opinion).

Like I said, I met my husband online. Not a dating site. We met on a gaming forum (just like the Crohn's forum but for people who played video games). We were friends first and chatted a lot on AIM for a while. After I broke up with the goober I was dating for 5 years my AIM friend and I started talking more and eventually started chatting on Skype. We admitted that we liked each other and he decided to move out here after we visited each other back and forth for 6 months. He was in Florida and I'm in California. Its not impossible for people to move to be near someone they love. Not saying that you have to move to another state but if you broaden your search then you may have better luck. FYI there are also single women on the Crohn's forum. :shifty:
 
Hi Kev,

Sorry couldn't respond sooner. Have been helping out at a friend's hotel, and there have been too many people around.

Actually, I've been working graveyard shift and don't like being alone all night, but I'm real good at starting conversations. Especially since many of the guests here are family members of patients at a near by recovery hospital, who are here for several weeks, if not months. They're all stressed out and can't sleep anyway. As long they keep me company, they can vent away to me all nite long, and have been.

My little late nite group's been growing. I'm playing hostess, and romance between some of the guests is actually starting to bud. My point being that you can met someone almost anywhere, and under almost by circumstance. It's getting interesting. I might start serving snacks...

Yes, dating sites can be treacherous, but I think it helps if you're very specific in your profile about what you're looking for. Say that you will only respond to those interested in meeting to explore the potential for a meaningful relationship, and that you will report all scammers and hookers. Hopefully,that may eliminate a good percentage.

And yes, those on-line sites make money off the advertising, and the more traffic, the more they make. Claiming they will "match you up" according to interests, etc.? Pretty much total BS. Those sites are run as businesses and their primary goal is to earn as much as possible. If you're not looking for a quick hookup, I'd recommend staying away from the "plenty o fish" site, lol!

You didn't "fail" with that woman you met and danced with the other night. If you gave her your number and she didn't call, it's probably because you're basically asking her to be the aggressor, which is a role reversal many woman aren't comfortable with.

I know some women who are very aggressive, they're also extremely manipulative, if not downright predatory, meaning, they're looking for money. The ones I know are pretty good at getting it too. Right off hand, I can think of at least one who got herself an entire hotel that way. I sincerely wish I was joking about that, but I'm not.

Some of my other friends and I actually have this saying, "No body gives money to a mean stripper, much less their entire paycheck", meaning there's an ulterior financial motive behind all that flattery and niceness, and you should view as a huge red flag anyone who comes across that way, or wants to move too fast. At the same time, older people do tend to move faster along in relationships, because they don't want to waste the time they have remaining. So you may want to be cautious, but not overly so.

Other than that, you may be over thinking what you feel are relationship "weaknesses". During my husband's mom's illness,, his dad gained a good 100 pounds, has rheumatoid arthritis and gout, none of which stood in the way of his finding a new mate within the year of his wife's passing. His uncle has alzheimer's, and a number of health afflictions, and also remarried within the year of his wife's passing. While my dad's got an ostomy, is on a fixed income, and his stunningly gorgeous girlfriend's at least 15 years younger in perfect health. My husband's grandfather? His testicular cancer doesn't seem to have any effect on his ability to attract women, or having lots of sex with his 2 girlfriends, who know about, and are good friends with each other. They both even come to family functions with him, together. Oh, his grandfather has actually said to me, and I quote, "I never knew sex could be so much fun!" Yep, and he's in his 70s.

So my best advise is don't over think, and have some fun. Getting out there's half the battle. The rest is up to you :)
 
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I know above you were being honest about yourself when you were describing yourself but there really wasn't anything positive. If you downplay yourself then it shows that you lack confidence and many women are attracted to confidence.

I second this.

If you want a confident woman, you need to portray your confident self. Your straightforward approach seems to be a natural part of you and therefore you do have a confident self. When describing yourself, change the sentence structure. Rather than something like "I've had illnesses and therefore job change and lower scale salary" do this "I've come through many adversities and gained strength from each one, and am able to enjoy the simpler pleasures in life" or something like that. That probably sounds cheesy, but you get my drift. Maybe you already do that in your online dating websites, but just the fact that you said them here...and in the particular way that you said them... shows that you aren't feeling a whole lot of confidence at the moment. We can all relate to that!

Downplaying who you are will either attract a weak woman looking to rescue you or a con spotting an easy target.

You've got all the right qualities, well in print at least (from what we know of you here on this forum). You just need to out there and work it! :cool2:
 
Hey guys. WOW again. Thanks for the interest, and the input. Just want to clarify a little something... that negative 'self description'.. it isn't how I 'view' myself, just trying to put it in the perspective of someone on the outside, looking in, just superficially. Know what I mean? Like, if someone who didn't know me were to review just the negative prospects of myself as a 'potential' boyfriend candidate, those would be key items that would stick out.

I don't see my health as an issue, else I wouldn't be dating. Sure, I've been through the mills... but, I have survived, and.. I seem to have stopped cold an 'incurable' disease. From my point of view, I slipped into hell, danced with the devil, spit in his eye, then whistled as I crawled my way back out. As for finances, I could easily earn more money. I was offered a promotion, and I turned it down. I like the quality of my life and I don't intend to add work related stressors to my life ever again. I learned that lesson the hard way... and although I'm human enough to err, I've divine enough to forgive myself yet smart enough not to repeat past mistakes. As for the smoking, I'm a second, if not third class citizen in the eyes of the general public. Let them condemn me because that is only human; they just haven't walked a mile in my shoes. Nor will they. To me, the lesson to be learned is this... Kev, don't be quick to judge others, remember what it feels like... And, of course... I have to walk this path, so there is no way I'm going to involve someone who also isn't a smoker. My smoking is slowly killing me, there is no other way to describe it. But, I'm not about to take an innocent with me via my 2nd hand smoke. So, think that about covers it... oh, except for one critical thing.

After reading how guys older than me, and in worse shape are 'making out like bandits' there... I've got one very important question, Ya Noy. Where is this place, and when can I emmigrate? Do I need a Green card? If I marry a citizen, do I become one too?
 
I will admit, I do miss smoking. It also would have saved my colon, too. But, yeah, I get what you are saying about that.
 
Kev,

Every one of my, and my husband's, relatives mentioned above live in different states, and different types of communities, all over the country, from Wisconsin, to New York, to Florida.

There was a famous study some years back that stirred up quite the controversy by drawing the conclusion that, over the age of 40, a woman has more of a chance of being killed by a terrorist, than of getting married. Not very flattering, and I don't think it's necessarily true, at least not any more, but a couple of factors that played into those calculations included the fact that most women outlive men, by an average of 7-8 years, so there are more widows than widowers. Men also tend to date/marry women who are either the same age or younger (by an average of 12 years), while women tend to date/marry men who are older.

Not all women may feel this way, but I like that I'm younger than my husband, both in age and in appearance. Don't think I'd like it if the reverse was true. Call it vanity, but if my husband looked younger than me, It would probably upset and make me feel more than a little uncomfortable.

It may not be true everywhere, but as a general rule, the older you get, the more the single available women outnumber the single available men. That's just how it is.

So to answer your question Kev, I don't think you'll have to be moving anywhere.
 
Damn! Thought there was a Shangrila (OK, even Spell Check didn't know how to spell it) for men like say... Alaska, or mainland China, is for women. Saw a documentary on the out of whack distribution of genders in mainland China. When they introduced the one couple, one child rule there generations ago... many couples.. because women were then considered 2nd class... opted to only keep/give birth to male children. Now, years later, it has come back to bite China in the proverbial. There, a woman has her choice of millions of potential husbands.. believe they stated there are 50 million men who will never have a wife, nor even date, because there are so few women. And that is just in some major cities. They don't have (or won't release) the country wide numbers. And the 'boys' aren't happy about it.. and, to accommodate these 'single' men, prostitution, which is illegal... is popping up all over the place, and authorities are deliberately turning a blind eye to it. The consensus... let it carry on, otherwise there will be a revolution.

Oh, it already happened... no, that was the cultural revolution. See what happens when people can't say no to their government.

Anyway... on my dating front. Met this very nice lady.. talked, met, got along great. And I suggested we go dancing. She doesn't dance. I mentioned it 3 separate times in my profile... you'd think people reading it might clue in that I like to go dancing. Jeeee willikers. I think it is a conspiracy. Somebody... somewhere.. simply doesn't want me and my size 14's on the dance floor. So, the question becomes.. how much does that mean to me? I think I know the answer, but am avoiding it for the moment. But, sadly, I did put it in my profile 3 times... never once thinking ... yeah, another big assed sexist ASSumption... that there were women out there (and I already knew better) who don't like to dance. I ... am at a loss for words.
 
I think I saw that same documentary, along with one on the forced organ "donations" in China, of those who are imprisoned for practicing "Falun Gong" a sect of Buddism. Apparently, the govt. there has decided their peaceful meditations somehow pose a threat. Regardless, it seems you can get any organ you want there within a matter of weeks, or even days.

A lot of bad things can happen when people can't say no to their government.

A surprising number of people who don't like to dance just don't have any rhythm, but their talents and interests lie in other areas. Everyone's different.

Dancing's pretty important to me, only I like mastering various styles of choreography, including belly dancing, Jazzercise, Zumba (which I just started taking), hip hop, and oh, I really love video game dancing, including; Just Dance, Dance Central, and of course, DDR (Dance Dance Revolution). I've also taken tap, ballet, modern dance, and wide variety of ethnic folk dancing. None of which my husband will do, and I wouldn't expect it of him either. But he has joined me for salsa, ballroom, swing, country line dancing, and has even participated in a few flash mob dances.

Guess I'm just trying to say that a little flexibility is not the same as "settling" for less than you want. I would never have taken up skeet shooting on my own, but have become pretty good at it. If my husband had asked me to go skeet shooting when we were first dating though? Yeah, I don't know about that.

So Kev, my question to you is, if the next woman you meet asks you to dance with her to the Will.i.am and Britney Spears song, "Scream and Shout" at the next flash mob, to be held in the middle of your local shopping mall, would you agree?
 
To quote Austin Powers... (hmm, wonder if he is related to Tyrone?) "Oh, yeah, baby".

Years and years and years ago, I dated a belly dancer. Was a fan before that, developed more of an interest after.

Here's the thing... this lady. In her profile she stated she liked to dance. She also said she was 5' 8".. nice height for dancing (that is the vital statistic in women that concerns me first and foremost... contrary to popular.. or is it 'unpopular' opinion.. gals 5' 2" and under kill my back). Well, we met. She is only 5' 4".. said the height thing was a mistake she didn't know how to correct. OK, I can accept that, and 5' 4" is doable. And, (WARNING! another male sexist comment about to occur) 'grandmothers' just weren't built like that when I was a kid. WOW! But, the dancing thing.. it was there in her profile. My understanding is... she 'thought' my height was an exaggeration, and now.... realizing it isn't.. the only way to dance with me is if she were to wear high heels... and I think that is the issue. Or not. She messaged me she bought a pair.. after reading my message we could sit out any dances. I was at a loss for words last time... because.. as I wrote it.. I got an overwhelming feeling of how shallow I was being... Like, if my Crohns put an end to my dancing, how would I feel if someone in my life took a powder because of it? Oh, right.. that already happened to me. I forgot. ;-)
 
I had a bit of a eureka moment today, about this thread. I realized that it wasn't what I thought it was. At first, in entering the dating scene, I wasn't sure how to respond if asked about 'prior' relationships.. does one include Friends W Benefits. The debate over that evolved.. took off.. and it slowly dawned on me.. I 'was' dating. I 'was' looking for a real relationship.. and that actually, what was going on was that "I" was finally coming out of some 'self' imposed stasis.. a place I had retreated to when I became ill... Thought I was 2nd rate, 'damaged' goods.. thanks to my disease. Took me until just now to realize... I let the disease put my life.. my living.. on hold. And, finally, i am ready to get back to living... that I think I have found my closure with this disease.

I hope someone out there understands my 'revelation'. If you do, would you explain it to me? To everyone who took part, thanks. I think we can pull the plug on this now.
 
Pull the plug? Never! I am far too interested in your love life/dating situation to quit now! This is one of the best daytime dramas going..... especially since I don't watch daytime dramas except for Judge Judy that I record and watch later. (I *LOVE* Judge Judy!!!)
 
Yeah, ABC, NBC have been calling. They think "Sex N The Crohnie" would be a smash hit next season. CBS didn't make an offer... they know reality TV is hot, but they also know.. who wants to C BS.

Anyway... the 'granny' who wanted/didn't want .. to dance. She isn't 5' 4", but 5' 6" (my mistake... call Ripleys.. that's 2 in almost 60 years) and I think, now that my 'shallow' focus.. tunnel vision.. whatever.. is past... that I should go and ask her out. I have no idea of what women pay for their footwear, but apparently the thought of my taking her dancing... despite her fears.. was worth investing in a new pair of high heels.

I always paid more attention to what people did, as opposed to what they said, you know? And, this woman... acted.. decisively.. invested (amount unknown to this man), faced her fear (I'm guessing it is not like riding a bike, having never worn high heels) of dancing in them. So, those actions, to me, say something. Anyone else see that, or am I reading too much into it? She took a bold step, and apparently thinks I may be worth the price of a pair of shoes. Can't let her investment go to waste, can I? So, we shall see what we shall see... and if she shows them to me, I'm not telling you guys.

You'll just have to catch it for yourselves, next year on NBC or ABC. Check your listings.
 
On a more serious note, 'Online' Dating. Now, there is a potential reality TV show, or more a 'surreal' TV show. I never, in my wildest.. or 'weirdest' dreams, ever imagined a place or site like it. In retrospect, I joined 'eyes wide shut'. I have an .. unusual.. background that added to my.. naivete.. gullibility.. innocence... in getting involved with it. You see, as a child growing up, my 'family' wasn't typical. My Mom N Dad couldn't have kids, so we were adopted. All five of us. And, as we grew, whenever it was time to add to our little family... we older kids got to have a say in who our newest member would be. There be a sheet of paper, with a lineup of children needing a family, and we would look over the array, and make a choice. As kids, it seemed perfectly natural. It may sound strange to folks who became part of 'their' family the traditional way, but to us.. it was (and remains) normal. I never put the 2 and 2 together.. my childhood, and
my blind assumption that... the folks on that dating site.. would be who/what they said they were. I just 'assumed', as in my childhood, it would all work out for the best. Until my revelation. Which wouldn't have happened if I hadn't sat down to think over how shallow I was being. So, in the end, maybe I was no different than any of them. That's a whole other question to ponder. But, online dating.. oh, the horror stories I could tell.
 
I don't know Kev. What i'm reading it is that in the relatively short time you've conversed with this woman, you already caught her in 2 lies. I personally place a much higher priority in honesty than, well, almost anything else, and don't see anything shallow about it.

There are certain lies which are understandable, even obligatory . For example, to protect someone else's feelings (no, it's not the pants that make you look fat, it's that huge butt of yours) or to avoid providing unnecessary detail, they didn't want to know anyway (How do I feel? I have explosive diarrhea and my hemmorrhoids are killing me, thanks for asking). Or because the only place where it's appropriate to introduce yourself by saying, "Hi, my name is ____, and I'm an alcoholic," is at AA meetings.

But to lie about height? And pretend to like dancing? Just to get a date? Oh, and now claiming she had to go out and BUY high heels, just for you? And you believed her? After she already lied to you twice, all before your very first date? I don't know, but sounds pretty fishy, if not downright manipulative.

As a conservative estimate, I would say I own at least 30 pairs of heels, in every increment, ranging from 1/2", to full 6 inch "Come F me" pumps. OK, maybe more like 50 pairs. OK, fine! More like an entire closet. Most women like shoes, what can I say? But yet, this woman, over the age of 40, claims not to own a single pair? What are the odds? Never attended a wedding, or formal social function where she dressed up for the occasion? Or painted the town by going out in her red high heels? Is she Amish?

I'm not saying don't date her, but to reserve skepticism. At least for the time being, you might not want to trust what she says any further than you can throw her.
 
But yet, this woman, over the age of 40, claims not to own a single pair? What are the odds? Never attended a wedding, or formal social function where she dressed up for the occasion? Or painted the town by going out in her red high heels? Is she Amish?

I am over 40 and I do not own a single pair of high heels. I have been to plenty of formal occasions and have not had the need for high heels. And no, I am not Amish. I'm not sure why you think this is a requirement for women.

My closet has about 20 pairs of shoes, of which I wear 3 on a regular basis: Running shoes, biker boots and sandals. The others are sandals and other various dress shoes, but no heels. I am 5' 4" (almost doable, by Kev's standards--HAHAHAHA!!) and just don't give a crap about making my height match up to someone elses regardless of the occasion.

Whether or not she did actually went out and bought shoes for a potential date or just said it because it sounded nice, does it really make her a LIAR for life? "I bought this dress/shirt/outfit just for our first date" is a pretty common thing.

Kev, I think you have a genuine interest in her. A date is not going to damage you if it doesn't work out.
 
Whether or not she did actually went out and bought shoes for a potential date or just said it because it sounded nice, does it really make her a LIAR for life?

No, that wasn't necessarily a lie, and I didn't say it was. The lies were claiming to be 2 inches taller, and claiming on her profile that she likes to dance, when neither were true. After those 2, I would have a hard time believing anything else she said.

You don't own any heels? But you also probably don't add 2" on to your height either. Anyone who feels the need to add that 2", I'm still not believing doesn't own any heels. Don't know for sure, but doesn't ring true.

Oh, I tell everyone I'm just over 5 foot tall. Well, I'm really 5'1" and 3/4", but that just sounds ridiculously pretentious. Guess I could say I'm 5'2", but that would sound as if I'm so ashamed of being short, that I actually feel the need to add 1/4" inch to my height, and that's even worse. If I said it anyway, who would know or care? I would know, and I would feel like a liar. Saying I'm just over 5 foot tall, is more truthful and doesn't make me feel like I'm trying to mislead anyone or pretend to be something I'm not.

If you don't want to tell the truth, then don't answer the question. If you start out lying from the very get go, and get caught, then don't blame others for not taking you at your word, because you compromised your own credibility.

Myself personally, if I caught a potential date lying to me about something as innocuous as their height, then the very first question I would ask myself is, what else did they lie to me about?

Would that be enough for me to decide not to date them? Probably, because I wouldn't feel that I could trust them, and I never liked playing the dating game anyway. Others opinions may vary.
 
Wow! Who'd a thunk this thread would spark this level of interest, debate. Over little old me.
Couple of things. I may be naive (OK, no maybe about it, here I am nearing 60 and wisdom has still failed to materialize), but I 'believe' the height thing was a computer novices mistake. It may be obvious to others, but I'm oblivious to what would prompt someone to intentionally add 2 inches to their height. I can see some men doing it (all my life it has been the shorter guys who gave me trouble... Like, I didn't ask to be tall, and I don't consider myself tall tall) but for a woman.. OK (WARNING: Another male sexist remark) dropping a few years, or even a dress size or two.. or a couple of pounds, but to make themselves 2 inches taller.. where's the benefit... the motive? Of course, what do I know of the female mindset? Zero, nada, zilch! So, for the time being, I'm going to advance the lady the benefit of the doubt here.

As for the dancing... well, I think I may be the culprit there. You see, in trying to describe what I'd be interested in... and what I wouldn't... I said something along the lines (I am paraphrasing myself here).. "You always wanted to take Latin dance lessons, I'd be up for that" in my profile.. trying to illustrate that I am open to trying new things, and not just the typical stuff people seem to fill their profiles with. I saw a Latin dance demonstration one year in Halifax... and, yeah, this old fellow would be game to give that a whirl. Least try. So, I believe this 'lady' read too much into my 'hypothetical', and thought I was looking for her to don some high heels and take up Salsa, or Mambo, or Rhumba... well, you get the idea. And, to someone who gave up on high heels when arthritis started in her ankles years ago, that was a 'daunting' idea. She walks about an hour or so each day, to cope with her arthritis. I used to love walking... me and the boys would walk about 1 hour each nite, double that on weekends (my home literally had the Trans Canada Trail cutting through my backyard, so it was easy/peasy. Great pastime, great opportunity for me and the boys to talk, and bond. It's funny how its those little things you miss the most). Anyway, she and I have gone walking twice (hows that for a hot date nite?). And, she did buy some high heels, we are going to give some slow dancing a try... to allow her to get used to them again; and so she can get used to dancing with a man my height... and with those killer size 14s. Anyone know the number for 911? One things for sure, you won't see us audition for "Dancing With The Stars"
Another point. I don't know what makes women tick. I don't think anyone does. Even other women. I know I don't know what drives other men. I can only speak for myself, and even then, I sometimes surprise even me. Like, most men (straight fellows like myself) probably only have a couple of pairs of shoes. Me? With my size feet... I keep/buy everything in my size I can get my hands.... eeer, feet in. So, my closet has probably more shoes than many women. We are all different... and sometimes things aren't just black or white. Usually there are shades of grey. But, we often apply black or white thinking... lies or honesty. It may be easier to think along those lines, but I'm not sure it is accurate, or adequate, you know?
 
Kev,

My dad told me about some of his on-line dating horror stories, which included women who would send him their pics, only to discover upon meeting that they were at least 10 years older and 50 lbs. heavier. For him, that was a deal-breaker, and he would end it right then and there. Not because of their age or weight, but the intentional deceit.

I can still remember having an argument with this one guy, who insisted he didn't smoke, even though he had a pack of cigarettes, clearly visible in his shirt pocket, and smelled strongly of smoke because he just had a cigarette. Not only that, but I also pointed out that I had just personally witnessed him 5 minutes earlier, with a cigarette in his hand, putting it in his mouth, and exhaling smoke. And yet, he adamantly continued insisting that he doesn't smoke. This went on for a good 20 minutes, to the amusement of everyone else there--who later told me they all knows he smokes and was lying, but didn't bother calling him on it, because there would be no point. They knew him well, he lies about everything and for no apparent reason, but pathological liars don't need a reason. They lie because they can, and if you call them on it, they have fun playing word games, turning everything around to project their lies onto you. When an acquaintance is dishonest, well, most people can tolerate it, because they don't have to live with them. It's different when it's your mate. If you can't trust your mate not to lie to you about the small things, how can you trust that they're not lying about what really matters?

I hadn't even asked him whether or not he smoked. I just sitting with a group of people, talking abut smoking, when he came up to us and joined the conversation by saying, "Oh, I would NEVER smoke!" Why oh why? "Lie lie lie, deny deny deny", and isn't gender specific.

Maybe I'm just too cynical. Really miss my innocence, and still want it back.

So go have fun and enjoy your date, but remember, I wasn't in on any of the conversations, and you were the one expressing some doubts about her honesty. Sometimes, you go with your instincts.
 
Thanks, Ya Noy. There have been times when I 'wished' I'd lost that innocence.. but then, hell.. where's the fun in that? Besides, my motto is... don't let the bastards get you down.. or drag you down there with them.

I think, most of all, I was really pissed off by the site, the unbelievable characters who lurk there.. and, to some degree... the folks who sign up.. don't give it any thought, put any effort into it... and list off a whole lot of cliche catch phrases, that sort of thing. My profile had its fair share of cliche phrases... problem is.. I meant every word. I 'thought'.. 'hoped'.. folks would realize that, based on some of the 'outside the box' stuff I put there... it all, including the 'corny' stuff... was true. It didn't workout that way. Hell, how many truckers do you know who would describe themselves as a big old Teddy Bear. Any idea of what my daily life would be like if my fellow trucker ever read it?
 
Kev,

Actually, I know several women who's pet name for their construction worker, millwright, and trucker driver husbands, is "Teddy Bear" or "Poo Bear" (as in Winnie the Poo). Probably better, and more personal than my pet name for my husband, which is "sweetie", and that's actually a bad habit I picked up from his mom, who called everyone "sweetie".

By cliches, do you mean all those "I'm looking that special someone " (why else would anyone join a dating site?), or "Life is short" (so profound) or "What you see is what you get", a/k/a WYSIWYG (more applicable to computer formats), or some paraphrased version of desiring a "Lady in the streets, freak in the sheets" (followed by the chorus of Gangam Style!)

My husband and I have browsed those sites, and the profiles are just so repetitious. We were actually thinking of signing up and creating profiles for: couch potatoes, fellow conspiracy theorists, weird cat ladies, and furries, just to add variety. but then we realized the reason none of the above are on dating sites is because they can date all they want at comic con.

But I know quite a few people who have met their partners and spouses on those sites. The profiles don't tell you much, if anything. A lot of people just aren't that good at describing themselves, or at writing creative content.

The bigger problem though is there's a lot of "romance scammers" on those sites, seeking to take advantage of lonely people--and take them for every dime they can get. I have good friends who have fallen prey, and one girl who I prevented from getting taken by Pakistani romance scammer posing as a U.S, military officer by exposing him for what he was, only for her to then fall for a local dating scam, which took her for lthousands of dollars.

Has a lot to do with why I've become so cynical, but there's decent, honest people on those sites as well. You just have to be careful.
 
OK... the scammers.. God, like piranha.. or sharks. I encountered 3 ladies who needed a new car.. 'they' were very interested in dating.. but, relying on the current vehicles to get about was such a problem. I had 2 'ladies' who were looking for a place to stay. Very upfront about it... essentially trading a 'physical' relationship for a roof over their heads. There was a lady who 'needed' big bucks for orthodontics. She 'showed' me what she had to offer to the fellow who could come up with the 20K. That was on our 1st... and last/only 'date'. Another... well, she 'accused' me of cheating.. virtually.. as I was messaging a number of people concurrently... (I replied to everyone who contacted me.. whether there was any potential connection there or not.. out of sheer courtesy). I didn't know what she was talking about.. she had initially contacted me.. I replied, and suggested we meet... she wouldn't.. so I suggested telephone conversation.. she flat out refused... so I figured either she wasn't serious .. or else merely playing games. Anyway, I was online.. responding to another 'flood' of messages .. when she came on the site.. messaged me.. accused me of 'cheating' on her by messaging other people. I asked her what she was talking about.. she said she had 'hidden' her profile as I'd asked, and wondered why I hadn't.. and what I was doing talking to other people. For shame!! Thing is... she never made that request of me.. we never had that conversation.. and I had no clue where this was coming from. Either the lady was delusional, or else she had the conversation with someone else.. and got the two of us confused. There's an oops!
I have met some nice people on here.. but, few and far between. There was a beautiful woman who had the same name as my sister. Sheesh. Pass. Or the lady whose son has my name... Again, PASS. There were 2 different women who departed when Crohns was discusssed. A couple who didn't like beards... all my photos picture me with facial hair. And, to add insult to injury... they contacted me. I found those folks very annoying. If they don't like men with beards, why contact me? And expect me to shave it off. Right!!
Or this exceptionally lovely lady... very intelligent.. but against smoking. OK, I do smoke. I have made no bones about it in my profile.. and I don't claim I'm trying to quit either. And, I've had a number of people contact me.. saying that they smoke.. but when I look at their profile.. it says they don't. At that point, all contact from me comes to an end.
I think a lot of people my age are ... damaged... scarred.. burnt out.. gun shy. I don't know. Or it might be just this site. I don't know. But, it siure was an eye opener.

Now, as for cliches.. I love to dance.. I love to walk. I love holding hands, cuddling, wellllll.. it just gets sappier and sappier. I described myself as a big Teddy Bear because that... a little embarrassingly.. is what/who I am. A nice walk, either on a beach, or on a trail, or boardwalk... just my cup of tea. If I were to look over my profile with an eye 'jaundiced' by age, bad experiences, history, baggage.. whatever one calls it.. then I might dismiss my profile as just a collection of cliches. I sing when I'm happy.. even in the grocery store if the 'muzak' is good. I love to cook... I don't drink, or do drugs (well, not recreational ones) I don't gamble, carouse, or cheat. Unfortunately, I think that my profile sounds too good to be true. Regretably, it is as close to the 'real' portrait of me as anyone can be about themselves.. you know what I mean? I do have my bad traits. I am an outrageous flirt.. and I am an unabashed.. unashamed.. woman watcher. Shoot me. I am also a clown... a joker.. an optimist.. a devout pacifist.. just an ordinary guy.
And, of course.. Crohns. Oh, did I mention.. a garbage truck driver. That info sent one extremely beautifull woman running. We had messaged extensively.. I told her just about every reason I could think of.. why she wouldn't want to go out with me.. trying to spot the fly in the ointment, as it were. Even the singing in the grocery store aisle. She kept coming back for more... then, I mentioned what kind of driving I do. Vanished!

Que sera, sera. Anyway, this weekend I'm having a 3rd encounter with the lady who is or isn't 5' 8". We are going shopping.. She needs a new telephone... wonder who'll pay?
 
hey Kev,

Just checking up to see how it's going. Don't see why anyone would have a problem with your profession. Good steady work, decent pay and likelihood of getting laid off (as so many others have in this poor economy) is probably pretty slim. Can't begin to guess why anyone who didn't care for beards would initiate contact with a guy who's pic obviously shows he has one, or invent conversations that never occurred.

3 ladies who needed a new car, huh? My dad got tangled up with one of those. Even worse, he actually consigned her loan on a new car. He never agreed to make the payments, but they broke up and she stopped paying. He was on the loan and didn't want his credit ruined, so he made the first few payments--course she promised to pay him back, but after the 3rd month, he finally realized she had no intention of making good. He finally called the loan company and worked out a deal, agreeing to pay the difference between the resale and remaining loan amount. In return, they went to her house and repossessed the car.

Once he had the car repoed, oh she went nuts. Pulled all kinds of stunts, and even stalked him for the better part of a year. He said it was an expensive lesson, but at least served to make him far more cautious about who he got involved with. His current girlfriend is wonderful, and he enjoys indulging her. It's just who he is, but with vacations and cruises, not consigning on loans.

So there may be learning curve in sorting through the dating sites, but the end result can be well worth it.

Hope it's going well with the lady who is, or isn't 5'8", who hopefully wasn't expecting you to buy her a phone :)
 
I'm still alive... just keeping a low profile.. I heard on the news (entertainment blip, so I don't know where they got this info) that... of all people.. Martha Stewart.. is online now, looking to hookup. I've seen those films about womens prisons. Oh, ex con sex. Puts a whole new spin on "And that's a good thing". I don't know whether I'm in better company now, or worse?

But, I guess.. in some cases.. it can't get much worse. Sorry to hear the lesson your dad learned the hard way. Recently, a 'black widow' was arrested back in my home town (she was just visiting.. tho from Atlantic Canada area originally, she lived.. AND killed.. in many parts of Canada and the US). She was charged for poisoning her latest husband.. unsuccessfully this time. So, there are very real dangers out there, whatever your gender.. or age.. or naivete levels are. I do have this inate.. some call it insane.. trust I place in people.. but, I'm not as stupid as I look (physical impossibility to start). And, among the careers I had over the years, I was a licensed private investigator. Yes! Learned a lot of tricks.. and worked closely with various branches of legal system and law enforcement. I got out of that line of work because a.) it was poisoning me to humanity.. starting seeing the worst in everyone b.) my distinctive appearance made it hard for me to do close surveilance on foot... in a car I could tail you into the bathroom and you wouldn't know it.. but, on foot? Once folks saw me, they remember me, so my 'career' was pretty limited. Anyway, went off on a tangent. Despite being trusting by nature... I realized it would be fool hardy to not take some precautions, to weed out some of the players. Here's a little trick that spared me all kinds of grief. When I put up my profile... I also put up an alter ego. He is a bit younger, a bit taller, better educated and has a real white collar profession. Just no photo. Anyway, sooner or later someone will tell me that I am the only person they are communicating with online. At that point, my alter ego would initiate correspondence. And, then I'd sit back and see what would occur next. Very few 'ladies' who told me I was the 'only' person they were talking to online responded with... "Sorry, I'm talking with someone else, and chose to focus on that" ... or words to that effect. For the rest, once correspondence is a two way street between my alter ego and whatever lady made the claim.. I (as me) would write something along the lines of.. "So, you want to keep this just between the two of us for now"... or words like that... presenting them with an opportunity to tell me that I was no longer the only fish in 'her' pond. Once they commited themselves, I'd bow out with a "I don't want to get that serious that fast"... and they never learn I was/am both guys. And, my alter ego would tell them that he was 'talking' to someone, and bid adieu.

The other thing... and this isn't a nasty 'trap' like the other.. but it also helps to weed out the rotten fish. At some point, I will invite someone to my place. It is very small, extremely modest... certainly not like the big home I used to live in (pre disease), yet it serves my needs... and suits my purposes. The old place had 4 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, a living room you could almost play tennis in.. and my backyard looked like something out of a park.. the Trans Canada trail literally went thru it.. loaded with over 8 tons of antiques (used to collect those... totally frivilous). Anyway, that all went away, as did the executive position, the big salary.. and the stress associated. I don't regret that at all. But, I guess part of my mindset still has my head buried somewhere up my rectum. I look at the money, possessions, prestige... of then.. and compare it to the frugality of now.. and I probably peg my 'self worth' lower.. which is totally assinine. Understandable but still.. idiotic. Anyway, the peace and serenity of now is priceless. And, the upside... is that, seeing my modest, almost monk like existence here, in this little, clean, comfortable place.. those interested in my money just assume there isn't any to be had... and vamoose PDQ. You can almost see them backpeddling like crazy.
Yeah, the disease hit me in the wallet... but, I've been socking away 10% of my gross in both retirement savings and in stock options. That little nest egg has been growing for the past 30 (well, 27) years... and I haven't touched a dime. And, as long as I can keep working, living a.. well, not no frills... but more a budgeted frills only.. lifestyle.. at a job where I can still put 1 tenth aside in both RRSP and company stocks, and have 100 percent coverage on all health expenses... I have more money in the bank than any of those ladies would ever imagine.. And, as long as I keep a low profile, and my big mouth shut... that is exactly the way it is going to stay. What they don't know can't hurt me.

Even with those precautions, the shark fins in these waters are still pretty frightening.
 
Kev

My dad was a narcotics detective for the NYPD (New York Police Department) who worked "deep cover" in the very worst, poorest, and most dangerous ghettos of New York City. Infiltrating biker clubs by becoming a "gang member", he rode a Harley, dressed in black leather, sporting a handlebar mustache and full beard. He was an abusive alcoholic, undoubtably used drugs, was hard, mean, and one very scary, scary man.

As soon as he retired, he cleaned up his act and is now a pretty great dad, but he's about the last guy I would have thought could fall for such an obvious con. He doesn't trust anyone, and never did.

That woman was so charming and incredibly persuasive, that while in her presence, even I would fall under her spell. While dating my dad, she came to Illinois to take care of some business, showing up at my house unannounced and uninvited. My dad didn't come up from Florida with her, because he was in the hospital, having surgery for colon cancer! She wasn't about to stay there and care for him, so she stayed at my house for over a month, along with her dog (who was incontinent) and granddaughter.

I should have been at least a little upset, right? Instead, she got my husband and I to practically knock ourselves out, walking and cleaning up after her dog, babysitting and entertaining her granddaughter, feeding and taking them both out to dinners, movies, plays, etc. She got me to take her shopping, only at the checkout counter, she discovered she had "forgotten" her wallet, so I "lent" her the money. Of course, she never repaid me either. She never lifted a single finger to help out, or even offered to help pay for anything, and what I still can't figure out, is why did we go along with any of it?

After she left, it took about a week to clear my head--and realize how badly she had manipulated and played us too. After that incident, my siblings and I formed a "pact". Vowing that if our dad married her and died, that we would spend the rest of our lives investigating, not only his death, but the deaths of her previous husbands. Oh, she had already been widowed twice--e. coli and insulin overdose. There was a 3rd guy, who died and left everything to her after a while 4 years of dating, but his children prevailed in court.

Really wouldn't surprise me if she's the same "black widow" who just got arrested in your home town. I can hope, right?

It wasn't until the breakup and my dad stopped making her car payments that her true nature reared it's ugly head. She was so positive she was "owed" her that car, that she even tried taking my dad to small claims court, thinking she could convince the judge to order him to continue making her car payments. When the judge didn't see it that way, she then attempted to argue her case on the basis that my dad had been abusive. That only pissed off the judge, who told her that even if he believed her, that still wouldn't entitle her to a brand new car.

That's just one of the stunts she pulled. After that, my dad did start taking the precaution of running a background check before getting too involved, but he wasn't about to give up and spend the rest of his life alone.

At least appearing not to have much in the way of funds certainly can be an advantage, in making you a less attractive target for predators, not to mention helping to separate and weed them out.

Yes, even with precautions, the sharks can be pretty frightening.
 
Nice service.. the background check.. does he hire out? ;-) I knew police (oops, almost said 'men'... showing my age, ignorance, gender bias... nah, just old habit) officers from the time I was a lad. The chief of our little town (pop 8,000) force was close friends with my dad... dad gave him his 1st job before he turned to police/law. I have met lots over the years.. vast majority I would trust my life to. But, there were (are) some... I have a damaged shoulder from one of them.. hurts every hour every day. A good reminder that not everyone who dons a badge also wears a white hat, you know?

As for black widows.. or other predators.. I knew a fellow. He fell for one. All the way. I don't blame him... she is just one of those 'people' who have the magic.. and she knew how to work her spell on everyone she met. Missed her calling. She could have been a modern day Mata Hari. She conned thousands out of people, businesses, friends, even family. An insurance company, a radio station, a delivery company.. all taken for loads. That fellow I know.. she took him too.. and he had the evidence to put her away, but he didn't. I guess the jury is still out as to whether he made the right call or not, but he seems fine with it. But I know he is not the same man he was before he ever met her.

Enough philosophizing. (Geeze... I spelled that right the 1st try). On that online dating site.. there was a 'lady' whose dearly departed hubby was incapable of performing his duties as a hubby for quite some time... years and years. Health issues. Then, he went to meet his maker... leaving a widow to make up for lost time.. opportunity, whatever. For reasons that escape me.. she decided I was just what the doctor ordered. Now, in my frivolous youth, I might have been persuaded... but these days, not in the cards. So I politely declined... and declined.. and declined. So, she upped the ante. She sent me a photo. Unsolicited. Tastefully done, I might add, but explicit. (yes, I did keep it, I`m honourable, but not stupid). So, I told her that, due to health issues, I was impotent. I figured... a little white lie.. she`d move on.. everything would be good. That worked for 2 weeks... and she was back. She figured she could fix me... and wanted a shot at it. I figured.. all those pent up years.. she might be the death of me. So, I told her I was involved with someone I met online. Thankfully, that worked. She gave up, and I haven`t heard from her since. Another `lady`contacted me, she is over 20 years my junior.. She and her husband are seeking a male.. as her hubby is `bi-curious`. I haven`t the foggiest idea why my profile attracted one, or the other, or... eeer, both of them. She apparently is the `bait`. I dunno. My take on things, on life in general, is.. whatever floats your boat... as long as it doesn`t hurt anyone. I can understand why folks play for one team, or the other... but.. to be undecided as to which team you play for????. That, I hate to admit, is beyond me. I am not saying it is impossible, just that I can't get a grip on it, you know? Maybe it is just me, or a generational thing. There is a $64 question. In this 21st century, are folks one way, or the other, or can they be both? Not judging here... seriously, not. Just trying to understand the new dynamic.
 
I'm beginning to wonder how many 'at bats' (and I feel like I'm going bats) I should give me before I take me out of the game.. and bench me? OK, everyone who 'knew' the gal whose height changed AND loved to dance but didn't want to go dancing.. wasn't legit.. raise your hands. OK, now lower your hands... pick your favourite foot, limber it up, and on my signal.. I'll ASSume the position... and we can let 1st ever flash mob asskicking begin, OK? At least this one didn't want me to buy her a car... just a mobile home and a new TV.. I should go check to see how that new 'sucker' tattoo on my forehead is healing up, OK?
 
Kev,

You expressed doubts about her honesty almost immediately, and I was only picking up on the reservations you were expressing. You were suspicious, but trying to give her the benefit of doubt. That doesn't make you a sucker. And you didn't buy her that mobile home or tv, right? You're fine.

Regarding background checks, Florida is very popular with retirees, and my dad knows a number of retired NYPD officers who moved there, where some became private investigators, process servers, skip tracers, etc. -- they all have access to professional databases. For a flat monthly fee, they can run all the background reports they want, so he doesn't really have to hire out.

My dad retired at the age of 38, and only even stayed that long to earn his pension. 20 years of narcotics enforcement convinced him that the "war on drugs" creates more crime than it prevents. He now supports legalization. He doesn't agree with a lot of laws, and enjoyed his 2nd career selling real estate, far more.

I know quite a few people who are bi-sexual, and I also know couples who sometimes invite a 3rd party in, just to add variety and spice to their marriage.

But I also knew a couple who, well, she was a stay at home mom and her husband didn't earn much. So, to supplement their income, they would solicit men on-line, older men in particular, on the pretext that she's into older men. They never actually engaged in any 3-ways. They just kept these guys going, leading them on, while working various angles to extract money out of them. For example, she'd pretend her husband got jealous and changed his mind about the 3 of them getting together, but she liked him SO much, that she continued "secretly" Skyping, while her husband was supposedly at work. After flirting for a while, she'd claim they're so broke, she couldn't even pay their electric bill, and if he could help out, she'd express her gratitude by taking off her blouse on camera. of course, she'd butter him up with all kinds of flattery, how much more successful he was than her husband, and he was better for her -- to get him to believe she was thinking of leaving her husband for him, or at least, having a secret affair. All she ever wanted from these guys those was their money, and her husband was her accomplice and cheerleader. Those 2 pulled all kinds of scams, and eventually, went too far and got in a lot of trouble.

I kind of think that if you had gone for that "sex served widow" or that couple, you might have discovered either one or both were running some kind of scam as well. The stories they use are the "carrots" they dangle, intended to titillate and entice potential victims, and keep them talking, while they learn all all about you, using the information they glean to figure out what "buttons" they can push, to open up your wallet.

After my dad got conned into consigning for that car? That's when he stopped allowing the scammers to waste his time on those sites. He told all potential dates that he didn't like emailing or talking on-line. By the 3rd email correspondence, they either agreed to meet him for a short, afternoon "coffee date" or he dumped and blocked them from communicating with him again.

The scammers like to waste weeks, or even months of your time on line, preventing you from making a meaningful connection. Cutting them off as quickly as possible frees you up for face-to-face meetings, to determine mutual attraction and interest. The sooner you meet, the quicker you find out their true intentions, and can either go forward, or move on to someone else.
 
Ya Noy.. That was great advice... and quite eye opening. It slowly dawns on me that some of these folks are doing this for more than kicks, more than for perverse head games. Again, naiveté. Like a babe in the freaking woods, at my age. Is there no hope that I will one day wake up and smell the coffee.. Oh, wait.. I did make coffee. ;-)

There may be an upside to this... quagmire. A whole education that I apparently need.
I like your Dad's rule. Seems a very sensible approach. And, apparently the sharks that live in this pond are far more predatory, far more professional, than I had ever considered

I thought that it was 'just' that particular site... so I joined a couple of more. Exactly the same... in fact, with the one I signed up for yesterday, I started being contacted by young women from all over the world.. before I finished the sign up/profile making process... I hadn't cleared Step 2 of a 6 step process before the messages began to pour in. It is almost ... comical.. in its absurdity. Except when you stop to consider there are some desperate, lonely people out there, endeavouring to find a 'someone'.

Hmmmm, I wonder what Geraldo Riviera is doing these days? Now there is a real expose'.
He might be able to dig himself out from under the rubble of exposing Capone's vaults at long last. An indepth report on the wheelers, dealers, sharks, scammers of online dating sites. And those who.. if they are brave enough.. are willing to come forward to tell their tales. Talk about riveting television... or is that revolting? But, when one stops to consider what they do air these days... who knows? Maybe it would be the next big hit.

I guess it would have to be on cable, or pay per view.. you couldn't air an 'un-edited' version on regular TV. Hell, at my age.. or despite my age.. I have had similarly aged ladies flash me, (unsolicited), send me explicit photos, hit on me un-relentingly, (that is not a real word, but it should be).. offer me sex in exchange for cars, mobile homes, or even dental work (how does that old joke go? the nicest smile he had ever... yeah, that is how the punchline went).. Of course, the 'control' lady.. who apparently was talking online to that many she couldn't keep track of what she had said to who (or is it whom?). Good lord, I could go on and on, and I've only been dabbling here for 3 months.

And, I'm a male. Geee whillikers (now, there is an expression the young folks haven't heard).. I have heard some of the tales of what women on here are exposed to (with emphasis on the word 'exposed'). And, we are talking just about folks of my age group.

Ooooh.. I may be onto something here. Forget the mythical "Hunger Games". What if we could form a consortium, put up a website, and feature online episodes of the "Horny Games"? Pay per view... digital distortion of peoples faces, voices, nothing to 'identify' them... we could root for folks... share in their joy, or more likely sorrow.. celebrate with them if they found... whatever. And even educate the world to what online dating is all about. Really. Enter at your own risk.. what to watch out for.. Sort of like Coitus Cops.

Wait a moment... hmmm, already doing that, on here. So, there goes my brilliant idea..

Stay tuned for the next not so exciting episode...
 
Kev,

sadly, there's already been lots of TV shows exposing on-line dating site romance scammers on TV, and most talk show hosts have run exposes as well, interviewing victims, who yes, have been come forward to tell their stories.

Here's a youtube video of a Fox News exposé, telling one victim's story from match dot com. http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=AQyLBrKHpVs

There's also sites set up that expose them, along with providing tips on how to spot them,such as this site: http://www.romancescam.com/forum/portal.php

And here they post both the scammers real pictures, along with the fake pics they steal for their profiles to trap victims,
http://www.romancescam.com/scammers4real.htm

A lot of them are guys, posing as beautiful women, and quite a few actually live in....Nigeria, of course.

Same site has a forum, for victims of romance scams
http://www.romancescam.com/forum/

And there's the scam victims united forum,
http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=21

There's lots of other ones as well.

All the major networks have run exposes, here's a segment posted on youtube, from a segment run on CBS, about a guy who's pictures have been stolen and used by romance scammers on over 90 dating sites.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=mijGF9T325Y&desktop_uri=/watch?v=mijGF9T325Y

And another segment that was run on 20/20, which features a popular Nigerian song, celebrating scamming.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WgMvmMeVw7c&feature=related

This is one from an Australian TV news program, in which lonely women gave been taken for as much as $500,000 by romance scammers, and even after they learn the truth, continue falling for one romance scammer after another.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RqDgkvvTFHA&feature=related

Seriously, never, ever send anyone you meet on-line money. For any reason, ever.

It's always best to insist on meeting in person. That way, you can at least be certain that nice lady you've been conversing with, is not some guy sitting in an Internet cafe in Nigeria.

There's other ways to tell, such as checking the location of their IP address embedded in the header of their emails.

There are those who even entertain themselves by "scamming the scammers" but that can be very dangerous as "romance scamming" is a multibillion dollar criminal business.

Hope this doesn't set you off towards on-line dating. You just have to be careful. The scammers are actually pretty easy to spot, block, and keep away from. Forewarned is forearmed. :)
 
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Actually, my post was more a send up of myself... I love it when I'm the punchline of my own jokes. I think I caught an episode of Dr Phil (with a name like that, I guess he could have been a popular OB/GYN.. but not a proctologist).. Yeah, I know, I AM sick.
But, the info you posted.. for any other Crohnies thinking about using online dating to search for someone.. is absolutely fantastic. I never imagined it was that... depraved. Should have.. or at least should have guessed... or at least approached it with that in mind (I don't see why I didn't, there is lots of un-occupied space available up there).

Anyway.. I went today to meet another lady for the 1st time. I applied your Dads rule, and we had brunch. In the course of same, I brought up my health issues, and how it had changed my life.. but, I didn't mention it by name. Well, after hearing my issues, the lady started to tell me about a health issue that had changed hers forever. And, she then said the following.. "I have Crohns". I think she was a little taken aback when I reached across the table.. shook her hand.. and.. well, everyone here knows what I've got. We had a great lunch... then we went to her place... and sat and chatted for 6 or more hours. I don't know if there is any romance budding, way too early to tell, but, if I am not mistaken.. (and Lord knows I've never been mistaken anytime in my lifetime) I've at least found the ingredients for a great friendship. The rest might follow to.. but even if it doesn't... this is the last thing I ever expected to happen given the experiences I've had with online dating sites. So, there is some good, at least, than can come out of the experience. If I'm not being pre-mature. Immature I can do, but no man likes the word pre-mature. There is just some connotation to the word that escapes me at the moment. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she winds up joining this support site.
Hmmm, if we do connect, and then split, who gets custody of all of you? Need a pre-nup
 
Anyway.. I went today to meet another lady for the 1st time. I applied your Dads rule, and we had brunch. In the course of same, I brought up my health issues, and how it had changed my life.. but, I didn't mention it by name. Well, after hearing my issues, the lady started to tell me about a health issue that had changed hers forever. And, she then said the following.. "I have Crohns". I think she was a little taken aback when I reached across the table.. shook her hand.. and.. well, everyone here knows what I've got. We had a great lunch... then we went to her place... and sat and chatted for 6 or more hours. I don't know if there is any romance budding, way too early to tell, but, if I am not mistaken.. (and Lord knows I've never been mistaken anytime in my lifetime) I've at least found the ingredients for a great friendship. The rest might follow to.. but even if it doesn't... this is the last thing I ever expected to happen given the experiences I've had with online dating sites.

Wonderful news! It's reassuring to hear that you're not allowing a few bad apples to sour you in your search for romance. :)
 
Oh, hell no. I've always been a fighter. Came in handy with IBD. As for the bad apples, my motto has always been.. "Don't let the bastards get you down". Once more into the fray...
 
Let's change things up for a moment. I'm going to delve into something so uncommon, many think it is mere urban legend... a tale from ancient mythology. I'm talking about the ever so rare 'male screw-up'. Ever witnessed one 1st hand?

Some may recall I went thru a couple of close calls with that other C word, cancer. Bowel, and skin. Got the final all clear on those not long ago. Hence my feeling free to enter into the dating scene.

Anyway, something came up. To my very un-trained eye, it looked as if my skin cancer was coming back. I have a call in to my dermatologist. I wasn't scheduled to see him again till the end of year. But, I wanted to keep on top of things.

I also decided that, if I'm going back to see the good doctor, I wanted him to go over everything. So, in preparation, I bit the bullet and shaved off my beard. Nothing to interfere with having a thorough exam. Felt odd, but what the hell. If it is nothing, then I can grow it back. So, despite having a beard for 40 years... out with the old, in with the new. Onward and upward. All that stuff.

Feels really odd. Bizarre even. But, I'm slowly getting accustomed to the new me. I still feel naked without it, but that is OK. I've been naked before. Just not in public.

Back in the early days, when I 1st got ill, I used to keep a daily food diary. But, the LDN has done such a wonderful job, I stopped. I've been able to pretty much eat what I liked. And, like my Mom, I'm a bit of a chocoholic. Some of you are already seeing where this is headed. Yeah, the new grocery store I shop at has these chocolate bars. Huge ones. And they sell them at practically half price of anywhere else. Whenever I'm there, I usually pick up one. Just one. But, it is a big bar, and I don't buy a huge order.. I go in every other day or so for small orders. Slowly, it dawned on me.. those things I'm worried about. It isn't an allergic reaction to any meds, it isn't a new EIM from Crohns, it isn't that nasty old skin cancer coming back. It is just acne from eating too much damn chocolate. Oh, the stupidity of it. I am going to wait to see what the doc says.. and all the chocolate in my place is now in the garbage. My poor beard.

Want to hear the crazy part. Several from work, and a number of people online have expressed an opinon about my new look. The consensus is I look 20 years younger.. Now, any sane person would take that as a compliment, a little over the top maybe, but a compliment, right? I hear it.. and all I can think is.. but I'm not 20 years younger. I've got to fix this ASAP. Where can I buy a beard?
 
OK A belated follow up. Dermatologist gave me green light. Area I was concerned with was nothing but dermatitis.. age/Crohns related irrelevant. A spot I wasn't even aware of was another pre-cancerous lesion.. nipped in bud.. AGAIN. You know, there have been times when it felt like I had a horseshoe up there... But, I am off chocolate. Sigh!!

The lovely lady.. with the Crohns... really nice. But, no chemistry. Would have been one wicked wrap up to this little adventure. I suggested friendship.. so far, so good.

My little quest pales in comparison to this ladys. She has been searching for 10 years.
So, I don't know if there is any further reason to continue this little self love exercise?

Online dating? Better than not looking at all.. I guess. I was messaging this woman. In her profile, it listed a nearby town as her residence. Turns out, she doesn't live there... yet. She plans on moving there... from the Northwest Territories (old term) .. ready for the 'gotcha'? Her estimated move date? 5 years... and she initiated contact with me. I swear to the almighty.. I must have some sort of special gift.. just call me the 'weirdo whisperer'..
 
Hey Kev,

Sorry to hear it didn't work out, but good to hear that the breakouts were just from eating chocolate. I have that problem as well, which pretty much keeps me from eating chocolate.

The chemistry is either there, or it isn't, but to be honest, at least for me, that's usually immediately obvious within the first few minutes of meeting, if it even takes that long.

But friendships with the opposite sex are especially great for increasing the odds of running into someone you do have chemistry with. The more, the better, for both of you. As strange as this may sound, the more women you are around, the more desirable you appear to others, and vice versa.


It's not really you who are attracting the "weirdos", but rather, the weirdos are attracted to, and pursue, practically everyone, and will continue doing so, until they are made to stop. You just have to figure out who they are as quickly as possible, and cut off all further contact. Again, why my dad limitd all on-line contact to no more than 3 emails before meeting, and he set up a LOT of meetings, as many as 4-5 a day, every day, until he found the woman who was right for him, which, according to him, took 1 month and about 50 mini coffee dates. He wasn't about to spend 10 years playing games with the weirdos.

No need to give up on your quest :)
 
OK... this is a bit of a hodge podge. Bear with me. Life can be funny.. theatrically funny at times. I went to my dentist yesterday (ah, nothing like a trip to the dentist on your day off).. Now, I picked my dentist solely on availability of evening or weekend appointments.. my work as a garbage truck driver precludes me taking 'norma'' daytime appointments. My new dentist.. literally ..fresh out of school.. is a beautiful young thing, and yesterday, was our 'first' session. Now, I consider myself a dirty old man (I'm not bragging... thought my interest in sex wouuld have 'petered' out by this age, but not so far.. and, tho I may be loathe at myself over the fact that 'young' women turn my head.. it's true. So, I may as well admit it and take my lumps for being what/who I am) but as she is working, straining, prying, pushing and proding to get my abscessed tooth to release it's hold... she is.. apparently completely unaware.. that she is bopping me in the temple with her left breast. Me? I'm sitting almost completely upside down in a dentist's chair.. with this lovely young professional lady (probably young enough to be my granddaughter for pity sake) working in my open mouth with all manner of devices that could be used to cause excruciating pain at a moments notice.. and all I'm thinking is.. "Don't get arroused, don't get aroused.. " moments like that cause me to question my sanity... but then I realize.. why ponder over something so insignificant (my sanity).

So, I eventually come out of my dentists office... the only bulge I'm displaying is from my swollen face.. partly edema, partly abscess, partly cotton swabs.. when fate stepped in. I ran into an old flame.. Hadn't seen each other in years. now, picture the moment.
I've got a swollen face, I'm in pain, I haven't shaved in a week (beard is coming back) and this lady .. well, the last time we saw each other I wasn't all old and grey. So, if I'd wanted to pick the absolute worst time and place to run into anyone, I couldn't possibly have picked better (or worse.. depending on your point of view). Long story short, we talked, and talked, and talked... She is living here in town now.. and we are going to try to reconnect. So, I think my foray into the world of dating N Crohns, online dating, and the very nature of what is/isn't a relationship.. is entering a new phase. A private phase.
 
You know, I've said it before, I'll say it again. Whoever is in charge upstairs seems to have a devilish sense of humour. I've messaged back and forth with dozens of women over the past 6 months. I wound up with profiles on multiple dating sites (and, it seems you do get what you pay for.. although none panned out.. the folks I met/dealt with on the pay for use sites were nicer, more polite, better behaved than those from the 'free' site.. I don't think that is just coincidence or perception). I jumped thru hoops for some of these women.. and I had experiences that raised the hairs on the back of my neck.. and other experiences that raised other things. I preened, prepped, plucked, and diligently removed all nostril hair (the downside of being a tall man) and for what? A total waste of time, effort, input, money, and computer network bandwidth. Looking my absolute worst... I run into someone I didn't even know was living in my neck of the woods. We are getting together again this coming weekend. Don't you just love the way he/she pulls our chain. I'm not a religious person.. more spiritual. So, if he/she was intent on teaching me a lesson.. showing me the error of my ways, etc., I just don't get it.
 
Just go with it. It's much more fun that way!

Even if things don't end in a blossoming romantic relationship, just the thrill of spending time with someone from the past and getting caught up is a gift in itself.
 

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