Possible vaccine to treat Crohn's Disease

[Del]

Interesting article perhaps..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-15442/Could-vaccine-help-Crohns-disease.html
Thanks..

 

[archie]

sounds interesting especially as so many crohns sufferers are lactose intolerant and cow's suffer from a very similar disease, who knows but the more research the better although i'm surprised it's only 20% have a genetic link I thought it would be higher.

 

[Crohn's 35]

Thanks for this Del, yes there have been links to MAP and there are many threads on the forum that mention it. I have to think there has to be a link to what we all have in common, but no everyone drinks cows milk. It also has a genetic factor as well, my whole family has IBD so having a vaccination would be a welcoming breakthrough...but 5 more years?? That means Canada will get it in 10 :yfaint:... heck the US is only a few 100 miles from here.

 

[Kacey]

Ya, true on the Canadians getting it ten years later. It would be sooooooo nice to have a simple vaccine to cure us all....I'll keep dreaming, just seems too good to be true! :S
Interesting, none the less!

 

[Del]

Here is a full interview with the man himself..
I have to admit to finding this very interesting but but a little frustrating with the interviewee's long questions..but good listening none the less...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPO63UWZgy4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pYuf5rnnQo

 

[Manatee]

So if this is true, why aren't more crohn's patients subsequently vegan? Why consume what poisoned you in the first place? Not trying to provoke, just want to produce some discussion, I am interested.

 

[f_else]

I am not one to jump at miracle cures, but it is encouraging that our disease is being continually worked on and researched. If not a cure, then a better or more convenient treatment would be amazing

 

[kiny]

So if this is true, why aren't more crohn's patients subsequently vegan? Why consume what poisoned you in the first place? Not trying to provoke, just want to produce some discussion, I am interested.

I try to avoid dairy as much as I can.

The thing is though, when they look at cows who get johne's disease (cow counterpart of human MAP disease), the overwhelming majority of cows affected are young cows. For some reason adult cows who don't have johne's usually (there are reported exceptions) don't get infected.

But you're right in essence, I avoid dairy, milk and red meat wherever able.

 

[kiny]

I have to think there has to be a link to what we all have in common, but no everyone drinks cows milk.

MAP is found a lot in cows, milk and red meat. But it's also found in water supply, in other animals, even in cats and dogs at home.

Another candidate is E Coli.

MAP and E Coli are the two major ones, there are other but they are less likely candidates.

There is also a possible link between MAP and E Coli, E Coli thriving might just be a result of being infected by MAP.

When you look at slides of Johne's disease and slides of people with Crohn's, many of them are identical, it is really hard to even see which is the human and which colon is from the cow. It has been suggested since a very long time that crohn's is likely just johne's in humans.

So if Johne's has been seen in animals for over 100 years, why hasn't anyone cured this in cows. Well, using anti-biotics in cows means you can't sell them anymore, so it was easier to let the cow die than to cure it.

 

[kiny]

What I have also done lately is talk to cheese factories and I asked them if they can tell me if their cattle has been checked for MAP. The one I asked personally had no clue what I was talking about, the ones I emailed just avoided the question altogether or didn't reply (I did send them a question beforehand to check if they responded at all to questions, a question completely unrelated to MAP).

What some countries have done is to improve the pasteurization process. But eradicating MAP is likely not possible, MAP is found in more than just cows, and it would likely not even benefit us, on the contrary, if no one gets sick anymore a cure for us would actually become less likely instead.

 

[Mountaingem]

I've never been a milk drinker; I was allergic as a child and never picked up the habit of drinking it. I have always drank soy or almond milk. I eat organic yogurt and cheese infrequently, and red meat only when I'm low on iron.

I think it's more likely a chemical or antibiotic used in dairy that has triggered this autoimmune disease epidemic in the U.S.

 

[IAmTheWalrus]

Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

=D

 

[kiny]

Something I thought about is how one doesn't rule the other out.

If P is being infected by MAP, and Q is having crohn's.

Then P ⇒ Q

You are infected by MAP, therefore you will have crohn's.

But the reverse is not true, having crohn's does not mean you are infected by MAP. That's where some are missing the ball I feel, crohn's could be wide range of bacterial infections.

When people say, "I was checked negative for MAP and have crohn's, therefore crohn's is not MAP", they are wrong, because Q does not imply P, but it is still true that P ⇒ Q. You are infected by MAP, therefore you have crohn's.

It would be like saying "I have a broken bone and didn't fall off the stairs, therefore falling off the stairs doesn't break bones"....that is wrong.


It also becomes pretty ridiculous when you realise that so many animals have johne's, we're not talking just cows here, sheep, dogs, cats, there are many animals with johne's. There has to be a human counterpart of this disease, we are not immune to this bacteria, the most likely candidate is crohn's.

We're way past a hypothesis, we know people with crohn's have more MAP in them than "healthy" individuals, the two are related. It doesn't mean that everyone with crohn's has MAP, but the fact is still there that MAP is found in patients with crohn's in much higher numbers than "healthy" people.

 

[lancek]

A vaccine as a possible cure would be wonderful for all of the people suffering from CD. Thanks for posting!

Lance's mom

 

[NoMoreCrohns]

Crohns Vaccine

I have read about this vaccine and I pray it is legit. My question is, why are we not doing more to support this? Last month in the UK a group of teachers and parents held a fundraiser to support the vaccine. I haven't heard anything regarding this vaccine in any US literature. Maybe the US needs to get on the bandwagon.

 

[lookame]

sounds interesting especially as so many crohns sufferers are lactose intolerant and cow's suffer from a very similar disease, who knows but the more research the better although i'm surprised it's only 20% have a genetic link I thought it would be higher.

20% for the gentic link sounds right to me. Awhile ago it was rare to find other with the disease but since a higher amount of processed and fast foods and the popularity has grown for those things it would make sence that more and more people are getting crohns due to eating to many hamburgers or steak. I for one have no genetic link no one in my family has digestive disorders

My question is...is this a CURE or is it a PREVENATIVE?? Will it cure crohns or will it just prevent future generations from getting it?

 

[ankspond]

My question is...is this a CURE or is it a PREVENATIVE?? Will it cure crohns or will it just prevent future generations from getting it?

Exactly what i was thinking. Vaccines are usually preventative cures. Once you are infected with something, there's nothing more a vaccine can do since theoretically your immune system should already have mounted a response to that kind of invader.

From his university page however, it says the following: "The principal clinical objective is the development of a multi-subunit therapeutic vaccine incorporating DNA and protein technologies, based upon specific genes from Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis, to accelerate immune-mediated microbial clearance in Crohn's disease sufferers" (underlines mine).

In sufferers could mean those who are predisposed genetically but don't suffer yet (kids) or those who currently suffer. It is hopefully the 2nd!

 

[Miss Underestimated]

I don't think they really know all of the genes that can affect your immune system so that you would be predisposed to get Crohn's or other autoimmune disorders.

 

[lancek]

I think they were working on vaccines for people with AIDS (people that already had it). Possibly the vaccine for Crohn's would work in a similar way.

 

[jimmyf]

Hi, I completely went off milk when my Crohn's became its worst because of this problem with MAP. I personally think it has made a big difference. The homogenization and pasteurization process does not rid all the bacteria in milk because there is just too much bacteria to kill. I used to be addicted to milk, pretty much only drinking it and no juices, water etc., probably at least one and a half litres a day, religiously, for years and years and years. I now sometimes drink Colloidal Silver to kill any lingering bad bacteria and eat yoghurt regulary to keep a balance of good and bad bacteria. I remember when my Crohns was at its worst, I asked the doctor to blood test me for MAP and said there was no use because if I had Crohns, then there was MAP in my system.

 

[rygon]

Imho colloidal silver is much worse than milk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver#Regulation

Its great for external uses, just like bleach, but you should be ingesting it.

 

[lancek]

I've never been a milk drinker; I was allergic as a child and never picked up the habit of drinking it. I have always drank soy or almond milk. I eat organic yogurt and cheese infrequently, and red meat only when I'm low on iron.

I think it's more likely a chemical or antibiotic used in dairy that has triggered this autoimmune disease epidemic in the U.S.

I like your positive sig line. Being on this forum makes me realize that I am hopefully helping many other people (in addition to my son) when I support CCFA with their oingoing research efforts. Hoping and praying for better treatments and a cure for all in this coming new year.