The Little Farm Girl and onto Remicade

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That's how M was started on it too and it's really the way it should be - used as little as possible. M only started taking it every day because of how severe her joint pain was. Both her rheumatologist and pain management doctor said that it's very important to get pain under control, otherwise it gets amplified and you have a whole new problem to deal with it.

We are now (very slowly) weaning M off it to prevent withdrawal symptoms.

I really hope it helps Grace:ghug:
 
Well I'm not happy about the possible addiction factor and more worried about the possible constipation tramadol can cause. The bladder medicine that she use to be on caused constipation and then the GI flare hit hard. I don't want to make thing worse.

She's still vomiting in the afternoon/ night.:yfrown:
 
My older daughter (S) has used Tramadol very infrequently for years. She has used the same dose and has always been able to stop it without tapering. If you use it sparingly, I wouldn't worry too much about addiction.

M's case is kind of special since she does have Juvenile Ankylosing Spondylitis that has been extremely difficult to control. We should have treated her much more aggressively earlier, but, of course, that ship has sailed.

With M and S, we have treated constipation has been easily managed with milk of magnesia or Miralax. When M's Crohn's was causing constipation she did have to take 2 doses of Miralax a day to have a BM.
 
Spot on arm looks worse.
Labs came back, all look fine except her WBC count has dropped to 2.0 (normal range 5.5-15.5).
Waiting on Derm to look at pics.

With wbc that low I called the Rheumy to ask if I should give the MTX shot.
I wonder if the low wbc is causing Grace's extreme fatigue?
 
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Sorry I seem to have missed a lot. Wishing Grace could catch a break, poor girl. Hope your boy is feeling a bit better. My kids haven't used tramadol but I have and did find it helpful. Hope they call back soon about whether to give the methotrexate
 
:( Spot is still there and now a second popped up. So very painful.
Sometime this week she will be going down for biopsies.

The Dermatologist said theirs 3 possibilities............................
1- Systemic Disease, (Still's Disease) still have to research this one.
2- Allergic reaction to her meds. She thinks this is less likely because its not more wide spread (Thank God) but anything is possible.
3- Infection of unknown origins. With her wbc count being so low it's a possibility.


The Tramadol has worked wonders at night for her.:)
We're thankful for the sleep.
 
How does Still's disease relate to juvenile idiopathic arthritis?


Still's disease is one type of juvenile idiopathic arthritis (JIA) and is also known as systemic-onset JIA. It is referred to as “juvenile” because it typically affects children under 16 years of age. By systemic, it is meant that along with joint inflammation it typically begins with symptoms and signs of systemic (body-wide) illness, such as high fevers, gland swelling, and internal organ involvement. By idiopathic, it is meant that the disease has no known cause. Systemic-onset JIA was formerly known as systemic-onset juvenile rheumatoid arthritis (JRA) and is the same disease. Several years ago, the naming system for all types of JRA changed, and JRA is now called juvenile idiopathic arthritis or JIA.




What are symptoms and signs of Still's disease?



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Still's disease usually begins with systemic (body-wide) symptoms. Extreme fatigue can accompany waves of high fevers that rise daily to 102 F (39 C) or even higher and rapidly return to normal levels or below. Fever spikes often occur at approximately the same time every day. A faint salmon-colored skin rash characteristically comes and goes and does not itch.

Poor appetite, nausea, and weight loss are common. There is also commonly swelling of the lymph glands, enlargement of the spleen and liver, and sore throat. Some patients develop inflammation around the heart (pericarditis) and lungs (pleuritis), with occasional fluid accumulation around heart (pericardial effusion) and lungs (pleural effusion). Arthritis, with joint swelling, often occurs after rash and fevers have been present for some time. Although the arthritis may initially be overlooked because of the impressive nature of the systemic symptoms, everyone with Still's disease eventually develops joint pain and swollen joints. This usually involves many joints (polyarticular arthritis). Any joint can be affected, although there are preferential patterns of joint involvement in Still's disease

Still's disease is diagnosed purely on the basis of the typical clinical features of the illness. These features include high intermittent fever, joint inflammation and pain, muscle pain, faint salmon-colored skin rash, swelling of the lymph glands or enlargement of the spleen and liver, and inflammation around the heart (pericarditis) or lungs (pleuritis). Persistent arthritis (arthritis lasting at least six weeks) is required to make a firm diagnosis of Still's disease. Other diseases (especially infections, cancers, and other types of arthritis) must be excluded.

Many patients with Still's disease develop markedly elevated white blood cell counts, as if they have a serious infection, but no infection is found. Low red blood counts (anemia) and elevated blood tests that indicate inflammation (such as erythrocyte sedimentation rate or ESR, C-reactive protein, and ferritin) are common. However, the classic blood tests for rheumatoid arthritis (rheumatoid factor) and systemiclupus erythematosus (antinuclear antibodies) are usually negative.

Of all patients with Still's disease, 100% have high intermittent fever, and 100% have joint inflammation and pain, muscle pain with fevers, and develop persistent chronic arthritis. Approximately 95% of Still's disease patients have the faint salmon-colored skin rash, 85% have swelling of the lymph glands or enlargement of the spleen and liver, 85% have a marked increase in the white blood cell count, 60% have inflammation of the lungs (pleuritis) or around the heart (pericarditis), 40% have severe anemia, and 20% have abdominal pain.
 
Your rheumatologist probably would have said if he thought she had systemic JIA. From what I have heard from parents, they say it's usually evident from bloodwork and can be very serious. High fevers that go down by themselves are common. Hopefully, her rash is not anything serious. Rheumatologists typically use different biologics for it: Actemra (IL 6 inhibitor) or Kineret (IL 1 inhibitor). Anti-TNFs don't usually work very well in Systemic JIA (but of course, all kids are different).

I'm so very glad she's sleeping at night. Hope Remicade works.
 
FW!
Sorry to hear she has not improved. Did you guys ever see an immunologist? With all her issues I am wondering if there is not something else going on that she has not been checked for?
 
Ya Maya, what I'm seeing is not like Grace's spots.
But can their be other skin manifestations JIA? I'm also looking into ibd skin issues.

Plus we know she has vasculitis(sp?) on her feet and she has EN spots on her legs now.
The Derm said I don't have to put the antifungal cream on her arm, since it hasn't worked.
My fear it is ringworm that just isn't responding to treatment.
 
To be honest we haven't really dealt with skin issues much. M has psoriasis on her nails as a 4 year old (wayyyy before she was diagnosed - we only learned in the last few years that it's connected to AS and IBD ) and occasionally has eczema. Besides that, no issues.

Did the derm give her a cream or something to make it less painful? I wish insurance would just approve Remicade every 4 weeks - Grace very obviously needs it.
 
FW!
Sorry to hear she has not improved. Did you guys ever see an immunologist? With all her issues I am wondering if there is not something else going on that she has not been checked for?

No she hasn't seen one yet. :yrolleyes: I was hoping to leave one specialist we hadn't meant.:ybatty:
 
No the Derm is contacting another Derm to get advice on how to treat this.
She asked me to call the rheumatologist and ask if Grace can do a biopsy with her wbc being so low. Thankful the tramadol is helping at night.
 
Ya Maya, what I'm seeing is not like Grace's spots.
But can their be other skin manifestations JIA? I'm also looking into ibd skin issues.

Plus we know she has vasculitis(sp?) on her feet and she has EN spots on her legs now.
The Derm said I don't have to put the antifungal cream on her arm, since it hasn't worked.
My fear it is ringworm that just isn't responding to treatment.

I was told by a doctor that if ringworm doesn't respond to the antifungal cream (I think that is what they use) then it isn't ringworm.

Don't know if that helps. Probably not. I hope the derm can find a colleague in the know....
 
The Derm said I don't have to put the antifungal cream on her arm, since it hasn't worked.
My fear it is ringworm that just isn't responding to treatment.

I think maybe question is, if its not ringworm will the antifungal cream do any harm.

Just is case it is ringworm are you applying the cream to the undamaged area around the sore. eg approximately 4-6cm of unaffected skin all round the ringworm.
 
I think maybe question is, if its not ringworm will the antifungal cream do any harm.

Just is case it is ringworm are you applying the cream to the undamaged area around the sore. eg approximately 4-6cm of unaffected skin all round the ringworm.

:eek:No, I was just told to apply it. Not how! :yfaint:
Thanks for telling me.
 
:bdayparty:
Tomorrow is Grace's birthday. She'll be 6. It's hard to believe.;)

Update:
Spots on arms not any better. I am still using the antifungal cream but I don't think it's that.
I'm preparing to head down state for her biopsies.



For those who have had skin biopsies,

Will the biopsy leave a deep hole? How painful is it? Do they try to glue it up?
The dermatologist asked if Grace would sit still for it.
 
Ds was suppose to have a biopsy
He was 8
After being at dermo office
Dermo reccomended a płastic surgery remove /do it under anthesia
We scheduled a scope at the same type
He was having a blue Nevis remived and it was deep
 
A has had 2 skin biopsies. The first was a punch biopsy done by the Dermatologist. She had 3 external stitches but was dancing/tumbling on it that weekend. She did request Tylenol a few times but the hardest part was keeping the area clean and dealing with the bandaid rash/reaction. The doctors/pathologists argued about the results and I regretted having it done. She does have a scar on her leg.

It took a lot of convincing for me to agree to the incisional biopsy. A wanted to be awake for the procedure but the general surgeon wasn't too thrilled with that idea. He'd never had a child that young request to do it without anesthesia. A did fine, even watched most of it. He later apologized to her for doubting her. She had internal stitches and those were a breeze. The results were still debatable and I regret having that one done as well. It left a dark purple scar.

Apparently skin pathology is very difficult to decipher. Five different people may come up with five different diagnoses (or so I've been told). I would exercise extreme caution, mostly because you could put Grace through all of that and still not know what you are dealing with.
 
Happy Birthday to Grace. I agree with Maya - systemic JIA is very distinct - I feel like it would have come up earlier too. I hope you all figure out what these troubling spots are!
 
Thanks everyone. Grace had a great day for the most part.
She spent half her birthday party in the bathroom sick but then got better.

:angry-banghead:So the worst mother award goes to me!!!!!!
I went to give her mtx and realized that's where her rash/wound/ringworm was.
And it hit me:ybatty: that she has been using a new numbing spray on her arm for the shot.
I bet its the spray.:eek: I feel so stupid for not realizing it sooner.
I gave the shot without the spray and we'll see if it happens again.


:dance:In the other thread I posted that they approve Remicade for every 4 weeks:dance:

Grace is set to get scoped in the first part of February.

Does your GI's make the kids wait to get their Remicade if it's close to the date of the scope?
 
I hope it was the spray. Mine had the scope and two days later remicade. I will believe is better to scope before if you want to see if remicade made a difference at a later scope???
 
I am so sorry I missed Grace’s birthday!

happy-belated-birthday-1539.gif


I hope your little princess had a fab day! :Karl:

And I hope the spray was the cause of the cause of the rash and nothing more. :ghug:

Thinking of you both.

Dusty. xxx
 
I think at initial dx it is best to wait to start a treatment but she has a dx and you are trying to access whether or not the Remicade is working so I wouldn't think the infusion would mess with things. As a matter of fact, I would think delaying the infusion would muddy the waters more...if inflammation is present is it there because of the delay or would it have been there anyway?

O is scheduled for her scope 4 days after her infusion. Doc said that is perfectly fine.

Good luck!
 
Glad to hear you hopefully figured out a cause for the rash! Fingers crossed that that is what it was from. Good luck with scopes! Keep us posted!
 
It's clean out time! :yfaint:
Saturday= Liquid diet
Sunday= Clear liquid diet and 10 capfuls of Miralax in 50 ounces of Gatorade
Monday= Scopes

Is 10 capfuls of Miralax normal for a 6 yr old? It just sounds like a lot.


She'll have Remicade on Wednesday.:thumright:
 
Good luck Fw! I hope all goes well for your little one with both the prep and the scopes, bless her. :heart:

Sorry, I am no help with prep’s in that age group.

Dusty. xxx
 
If that is what the doc ordered then I would think it is normal or at least what the doc thinks she needs. For comparison, T is 11 and 100 pounds and took a whole big bottle, a whole small bottle and a few doses of yet another bottle.

You have done this before so probably have it down but I don't mix it all up front in the same type of drink. I split the total miralax dose over how ever many ounces they want her to drink and mix them each time. This way she can change up her drinks and not get sick of one flavor. So Sprite one time, water, Gatorade, Perrier...you get the idea.
 
^^^ yeah that DS takes a lot of miralax for prep.
Talking bottles
Just make sure there is bum cream prior to every bathroom visit to save her skin ;)
Good luck
 
We're a day behind you. We were instructed to do a capful of Miramax every 15-30 min until she has 3 clear stools in a row. It only took 1/2 of the total amount prescribed last time to reach clear stools. The girl eats so very little as it is.
 
Day 1 of clean-out comes to an end

She ate two bites of oat meal for breakfast, 4 cups worth of soup broth and 5 jello cups.

That's it and she's still in abdominal pain and nauseous.

That's a great tips CIC about switching up the drinks. I'll try that.
Most of the drink will go thru her g-tube but
seeing she can't have more than a 1/2 cup at a time of food or drink latley, I think it will be slow going. :(
 
Day 1 of clean-out comes to an end

She ate two bites of oat meal for breakfast, 4 cups worth of soup broth and 5 jello cups.

That's it and she's still in abdominal pain and nauseous.

That's a great tips CIC about switching up the drinks. I'll try that.
Most of the drink will go thru her g-tube but
seeing she can't have more than a 1/2 cup at a time of food or drink latley, I think it will be slow going. :(

Hugs. I'm sorry it is so slow going and that she is suffering.

We are cancelling/postponing our scopes this week.
 
Well thank God it went easier than I thought.:hug:

We started at 6 am and by 12pm we are done with the miralax.
I would pump 5 ounces at a time thru her pump, every 15 minutes.
I'll also notice she started pooing liquid already.
That happened a lot faster than last times.:smile:


I hoping if the scopes come back clean I can request to drop the sulfasalazine.
I think this is contributing to her nausea and head aches.
My only hole in that theory is she was having these issues before the medicine
but it seems to be a lot worse now.

On a sad sidenote her EN spots are back and she has a new sore on her arm. :ymad:

I can't wait for Wednesday Remicade!
 
I thought the sulfanazine was to try to keep her arthritis under control ?
That was adding to getting remicade every 4 weeks ....
Woukdnt you stay on remicade every four weeks for a few months to determine how things are going ..?
 
We were told headaches are common with Sulfasalazine, and if M had them they could reduce the dose. M did have some mild nausea in the beginning but it went away within a couple of days. Is Grace having the Sulfasalazine after a meal? That helped M.

Sulfasalazine didn't help M's joints at all, even in combination with high dose Remicade every 4 weeks. We added Imuran for GI issues and that seemed to help both her joints and her IBD.
 
Yes it was added for her arthritis but I don't see how the side effects are worth putting up with the slight (very little) benefit of staying on the drug.
Of course I could be totally wrong and it might be disease trouble instead.
I guess we'll find out more tomorrow.
But I'm not arguing with the logic of waiting for the new Remicade schedule to kick in.


So would Imuran replace the sulfasalazine or MTX or both?
Can Imuran help stop or reduce antibodies to Remicade?
 
Yes, it can help prevent antibodies.

M was briefly on a low dose of MTX (.3 -.4 ml) with Imuran (75mg) but the MTX made her nauseous and wasn't helping because it was really too low a dose for her weight, so we dropped it.

Initially though, Imuran was added to replace Sulfasalazine and she remained on Imuran and Remicade for a few months (and now is still on Imuran and Remicade and her joints are doing better).
 
Visible damage in the stomach.
The rest looks visually fine but will have to wait until the biopsies are back.

I'm just feeling discouraged tonight.
I thought her IBD was under controlled and
even convinced myself her nausea/pain was from the meds.

:voodoo:My happy bubble was rudely busted. :voodoo:
 
Sending hugs. For M's stomach we used Maalox (over the counter) and Carafate (which is a prescription) when things got really bad.

Hopefully Remicade every 4 weeks will take care of everything!
 
FYI, I have visible damage to my stomach but no crohn's. It gives me heartburn which is much improve on a low gluten/lactose diet.
 
That's good to know Catherine.
She's on a PPI and low acid diet for a long time.
It just irks me that that nothing seems to help.

The GI said base on the biopsy results that an MRE and or Pill cam will be scheduled.

At least we know why she hurts and can't eat much at a time.
 
Sorry to hear it. Proposed makes J sicker - diarrhea and worse abdominal pain. Not all gastritis is excess acid 😞😕. I'm hoping for big changes with Remi. I hope it works fast!
 
Just catching up FW... sorry, scopes didn't give you better news. But, hope biopsies show that inflammation is limited. :ghug: :ghug:

Poor thing, she (and you!) really do deserve a break from all this!
 
Couple of things....

First, inflammation in the stomach is not necessarily IBD. When O had her scopes he said he found inflammation in the stomach but wasn't ready to claim it was Crohns until he got back biopsies because there could be so many other reasons for it.

Second, when T had her scope she had inflammation in her stomach and numerous Crohns type ulcers. I said "ah" and doc replied, "but that isn't what is causing her pain. Crazy to me that inflammation and ulcers weren't causing her pain. He went on to explain that the pain was more likely disease activity from small bowel inflammation/disease.

So I think you really have to wait for biopsies before you get discouraged or encouraged AND I think an MRE or pill cam is really needed to access what is actually going on.
 
I'm calmer today. :)

The GI didn't rule out problems further down the track and perhaps it's backing up and causing issues.
I've always felt her issues were more in the small bowel.

Whatever is causing them I want it fixed so she can start to eat normal amounts again.
She has to have something small to eat almost every waking hour to keep her weight up. I'm so tired of looking at food.:tongue:
 
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Wait! I am confused...No comments FW!

I thought she was getting most of her nutrition through her g tube. Can't you do a continuous feed with that?
 
She's was doing 70% food, 30% formula.
Now she's 50/50. At last she can still eat, just not a lot.
But I'm hoping with the Remicade tomorrow that things will get sorted out soon.
 
FW that's what M's GI told us - that M literally needs to snack every hour! She is not supposed to let herself get too hungry because stomach acid can increase the pain. She's also still doing night feeds to get her weight up since she eats so little during the day.

M recently had a gastric emptying scan which showed delayed emptying, and so now we're going add meds for that. That is what is at least partially causing her stomach pain and nausea.

I agree with crohnsinct - M's stomach inflammation has thought to have been gastritis from meds, not necessarily Crohn's inflammation. That said, M is on an NSAID so she does have a very good reason for having gastritis.

Hope the biopsies come back soon! Hang in there!
 
She had her Remicade yesterday.
For the first time in 3 1/2 weeks she had no pain meds given before bed and.............
:dusty:SHE SLEPT THRU THE WHOLE NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:dusty:
which means mom slept thru the night:dusty: which means dad slept thru the night:dusty:which means her brother slept thru the night:dusty: which means our distant neighbors slept thru the night:dusty: which means world peace:ylol:

:thumright:I LOVE REMICADE!:thumleft:
 
Thanks, it's just so AMAZING it works so fast for her.

Grace's teacher told me today that she see's such a different in her already.

I asked Grace if she felt different and she said yes that her body didn't hurt.

Than with her big blue eyes looking at me she asked if her boo-boos will go away?
I just smiled and gave her a doughnut.
:tear:
 
Aw I'm so glad it's working Farmwife :dance:. I hope Remicade takes care of everything :ghug:
 
What a brilliant update! :dusty:

So happy for you all Fw and long may it continue for your princess, bless her heart. :heart:

:mademyday:

Dusty. xxx
 
The biopsies are in........................

:panda:All's NORMAL!:applause:

The GI wants to do an MRE to make sure everything's ok and than and only than will she declare Grace in remission!:hug:

The visual damage is tares not ulcers. Still not good but might be from the vomiting and she is just slow to heal.

Still pray for her, we go to the eye doc today to see if the eye pressure is coming down.
If it is I think we deserve a trip to Disney World!!!!!:pika:

Man, this is the best I felt in awhile.:yoshijumpjoy:
 
Hey! The best news ever!! I hope her remission lasts a very very long time! Hugs to you all!! Xxxx:dance:
 
Eye pressure still high end of normal at 29 (have no idea what the normal ranges are) but the eye doc gave her some allergy eye drops. He believes it related to her allergies. She is having horrible light sensitivity. Hopeful the drops will help.
Still no sign of inflammation. YA!!!
 
Great news FW!! :dusty: I absolutely think Disney World is warranted! :D :D

Really happy update! :D
 
I got the Path report of the biopsies' and OF COURSE I have been pouring over them.

Their is one question, the stomach biopsies say.............
b. stomach, biopsy: moderate chronic epithelial changes.

Is this a fancy way of saying Gastritis or that the inflammation is causing the change?

Other than the stomach everything looked improved.:ghug:
 
They usually will numb the area now with lidocaine before sticking the IV . I never feel the IV anymore. Good luck.
 
I got the Path report of the biopsies' and OF COURSE I have been pouring over them.

Their is one question, the stomach biopsies say.............
b. stomach, biopsy: moderate chronic epithelial changes.

Is this a fancy way of saying Gastritis or that the inflammation is causing the change?

Other than the stomach everything looked improved.:ghug:

Look at detailed report on the stomach, does it say more?
 
The epithelium is the lining of the stomach but other than noting moderate chronic changes the statement does not stipulate the cause of those changes, that is inflammatory etc.

As CarolinAlaska has asked, does it say anything more? Does it go on to use terms such as... consistent with?

Dusty. xxx
 
Sorry it took awhile to get back to this.

Here's the only other mention of the stomach.
b. sections of the stomach show 3 fragments of gastric mucosa, one superficial epithelium, one body-type and the other antral-type. the superficial epithelium of the antral fragment is pseudo-villiform. the glandular epithelium is unremarkable. the lamina propria contains an upper limit normal complement of inflammatory cells no organisms are identified.

So it doesn't seem to have problems, so why does is it labled

b. stomach, biopsy: moderate chronic epithelial changes.

:ybatty:
 
Sorry it took awhile to get back to this.

Here's the only other mention of the stomach.
b. sections of the stomach show 3 fragments of gastric mucosa, one superficial epithelium, one body-type and the other antral-type. the superficial epithelium of the antral fragment is pseudo-villiform. the glandular epithelium is unremarkable. the lamina propria contains an upper limit normal complement of inflammatory cells no organisms are identified.

So it doesn't seem to have problems, so why does is it labled

b. stomach, biopsy: moderate chronic epithelial changes.

:ybatty:

I will take a stab at your question and having no qualification whatsoever to do so please take it with a grain of salt! :eek2: :lol:

I think the comment regarding the stomach biopsy is referring the section highlighted.

Generally speaking anatomical pseudo landmarks mean changes have taken place in normal tissue. One of these causes can be inflammation e.g. pseudo polyps in the large bowel of those with IBD. So…is the pseudo-villiform of the superficial epithelium a result of moderate chronic changes (?cause), is that the link between the comments?

Dusty. xxx
 
Dx back in question...again.
Since the scopes were clear and so was her MRI, which is great, the GI still can't say if its Crohn's or UC or maybe not either of those.:yfrown:

Ok Ms Dusty, good guess and not far off. :thumleft:
The sample "superficial epithelium" was taken from the section that had the visible tares and tiny red spots located primarily at the top towards the side of her stomach.
So the Gi said you can see these type of tares with forceful vomiting
but Grace doesn't have that issue and why would it be chronic?
The GI has no idea why!!!!
She's at a loss but :shifty-t:said since everything else is clear she'll call it remission.:dusty:

Today we had Grace's Rheumy appointment.
We were all disappointed :frown:the Remicade this time around didn't last one weeks.
Grace fatigue is so bad now she will have to take Wednesdays off for a few weeks.
The teacher told me it's even affecting her school work.
The doc said her SI joints and one ankle were inflamed.
We're all hoping with a couple more Remicade at 4 wk intervals that she'll feel a lot better.

So a good update:thumleft:
A confusing update:shifty-t:
And a bad update :thumbdown:
 
Poor Grace :( sorry her joints are causing so much trouble. She's quite young to have her SI joints inflamed, and she may just have aggressive arthritis and take longer to respond. The good thing is that you're treating aggressively and caught it early.

It took 6 months of high dose Remicade every 4 weeks for M before we saw a significant response, and even now her rheumatologist does not like the look of her knee and SI joints so unless something changes relatively soon, we'll be trying something new like Cimzia or Simponi. When M's arthritis is not under control fatigue is a BIG problem.

For some kids, it just takes time to find the right combination unfortunately :voodoo:

Glad the MRE and her biopsies were all clear!!
 

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