Uninformed healthcare proffesionals

[Digits]

really piss me off.

i had surgery today to get my tonsils out (totally unrelated to crohns) at the biggest hospital and supposedly the best here in Ak.

but yet when they ask about any major medical illnesses, the 2 nurses (both with 15+ years on the job) had NO idea about Crohn's disease.

Its becoming so common place now a days, and i personally think if you are dealing with people who will be assisting you under anesthia, and something goes wrong (or lord forbid i have an accident under the meds) they should really know at least the mechanics of a disease as widely diagnosed and treated as Crohns is.

thats just my thinking. they had no idea, they asked what part of my body it affected, like it it was my blood or kidneys or heart. :voodoo:

 

[BWS1982]

Dear God.

I feel your anger, that pisses me off just reading it....or perhaps that's partly the pred. Who cares, ignorance is NOT bliss.....:ybatty:

 

[Kev]

Heard something today... About MRSA becoming pandemic... they estimate that 12,000 Canadians 'caught' MRSA (an anti biotic resistant form of staph infection) whilst in hospital... apparently this germ can survive, even thrive, on surfaces. And that it's transmitted patient to patient by staff (maybe they should call it a 'staff' infection)... Anyway, simple handwashing is estimated to have the power to reduce the number of infections by 80%, but in testing, they learned that staff only wash their hands on avg. 50% of the times they should.
Here's the rub... the death rate is nearly 20%... last year 2300 Canadians died who didn't need to thanx to MRSA... Then they ended the report on this with what they called 'good' news... That the incidence of this in the US is 10 times higher... ONLY beuracrats could see this as good news. Happy hospital stay!

 

[soupdragon69]

As someone who is a healthcare professional I gotta say we dont have the ability to know even the basics of all what is considered common diseases throughout the world.

Thats why we specialise in specific areas - what shocked me was the fact that a gastro WARD staff had no idea about dietary needs and problems with any gastro disease and that I had to fight tooth and nail to get things sorted. Nor did the housekeeper who did the meals.

On the MRSA aspect most of us actually carry it already on our skin, in our nostrils, throats etc and that is why swabs should be done on admission. The danger in hospital (is that not only is it transmissable because lets face it we are all used to our own bugs just not everyone elses) is when it gets into the bloodstream or a wound can lead to sepsis or difficult healing.

Just a few thoughts...

 

[Guest]

yup, i've encountered a few nurses who had never heard of crohns, i'm at the point now where i'm fed up of explaining to everyone the whole story so i just say "its like colitis".... and then they nod and say they've heard of that.... sigh...

hope your tonsillectomy went well digits, and your recovery is going ok

 

[Digits]

it hurtsss. im used to having pain in the stomach region after surgery, having it in a totally diff place is crazy feeling. im able to get up and move and go to the restroomnormally, but i cant talk. so its like the complete flip side!

 

[Guest]

aww do they still recommend ice cream and ice lollies to help with the soreness? i remember kids having their tonsils out when i was at school, and they were made to eat really cold stuff, plus "scratchy" foods like potato chips.

 

[Colt]

I'm down to just saying: "My immune system attacks my intestines." That's enough for most people.

I'm a CNA and CMA and I can tell you all about the problems with at least the American medical system. The main flaw being that everyone is taught by people who haven't as much as seen the cover of a medical book or medical journal in at least 20 years. On top of that those 20+ years ago they were taught by another person who had not learned anything in 20+ years. Basically, new medical knowledge is not taught. I've encountered numerous nurses and doctors who do not know basic modern protocols such as: Don't stick anything in the mouth of a person who is having a seizure and Lithium has been considered barbaric for anything other than the absolute most extreme cases since the invention of modern medicine like SSRIs and anti-psychotics. Oh, and my favorite is that neurologists still use the old seizure classification system that was abolished in 1981 because it was confusing and generally worthless for communicating the characteristics of the seizure.

When you correct them with current medical information they usually respond: "Oh, I know it's different now, but I've been around a long time so I just use what I'm used to."

Another major problem is mostly with nurses and especially LPNs. In America being an LPN is considered the easiest way to make the most money possible. Career counselors in schools push the poor and less intelligent females into nursing as hard as they can telling them it's the only way for them to be successful without going to college. The males are pushed into the military or maybe a local factory that has a recruiting deal set up with the school.

Most LPNs have had practically no education whatsoever and simply sped themselves through one of the endless list of 'diploma mills.' They learn only the most basic practical things like how to give a shot and fill out paper work. My mother happens to be an LPN and honestly her medical knowledge is next to nothing. I have to constantly correct her on basic anatomy and medication uses. I still can't convince her that prenatal vitamins do not have magical properties to give you pregnancy side-effects like strong hair and clear skin. But that's not surprising, and it's not really her fault, when you consider the program she went through.

On top of the lack of education they are usually the laziest people around which is why they went into the profession they did. Getting a nurse to get off their arse at the nurse's station and go look at a patient is practically impossible. Most nurses I've encountered are obese because they sit their entire shift every day and just yell at the Aids to do their job for them. This gets into a feedback loop and their size then makes it too challenging for them to get up and walk down the hall which ensures that they never gain the physical abilities needed to march up and down the halls so they sit at their nurse's station and on it goes.

That means that 90% of the time you think you're talking to a nurse it's a Nurse Aid and with most hospitals that NA may not even be certified. In other words, you're dealing with someone who has maybe had 3 hours of orientation and nothing else.

Of course there are exceptions and some nurses are really good at what they do. I even had an LPN once who when a patient was having a hard time regularly walked down to the end of a 30 room hall on her own initiative and asked me how she could help care for the patient. Of course I only got to work with her for a short period before she got lured away by a better position.

 

[soupdragon69]

Ok colt do you want to tell those of us in the UK what a CNA and CMA are along with an LPN?

Good to see you dont class all the nurses as stupid or obese or not caring. Would be wondering why the heck I am in the profession or the nursing assistants as I was one for 12yrs by the time I qualified.

However, I would like to point out the majority of nurses are good at what they do and the minority are having problems or have blinkers on..

Will say I do agree with your thoughts about all professionals being taught up to date information. We cannot progress towards better healthcare and health for all if we are not willing to change our perspective and insist on staying with out of date information.

 

[Colt]

CNA = Certified Nurse Aide. You undergo 75 classroom hours and 100 clinical hours for the certification in my state. Nurse Aids (non-certified) are required to work with a CNA. Supposedly a CNA needs to be in the room with the NA while they work to ensure that the NA is doing things properly but I don't know anywhere that follows that on a regular basis.

CMA = Certified Medication Aide. Someone certified to professionally dispense medication to patients. You have to have the certification to legally do this in any work situation.

LPN = Licensed Practical Nurse. This is a 1 year certification. Wiki says it's the same as an SEN or Second Level Nurse in the UK which you apparently don't train anymore. An RN (Registered Nurse) is the same as a First Level Nurse.

I specifically said with the American medical system because I've lived in Canada and seen how much better the medical system there is. There's also a different dynamic for employment in a public medical system that results in more people who really want to be in the medical profession and care about the quality of service. The nurses in our private system are almost always in it solely for the money, ease of the work and the ease of training. Nursing in the US is considered a get rich quick scheme. The nurses I encountered in Canada were completely different and I would easily say that they had good nurses in the majority.

 

[BWS1982]

This may not have to do with professionals being fools, but has to do with society being fools....

Look at the ads by google at the top of the forum, anyone else feel insulted by any entity trying to peddle it's Crohns products to you by mispelling the very disease you have that they attempt to make money off? It's "CROHN'S" NOT "CHRON'S"!!!!!!!!!!!!

What ignorant fruitcake would go to a doctor who couldn't even spell the disease he's supposed to treat? :yrolleyes:

 

[Colt]

Not to mention "IBS Cure." I don't think I need to explain here why that one is upsetting.

 

[soupdragon69]

Colt I will happily hold my hands up and say I missed your comments about it being based on the American system and how you experienced the Canadian system. To me you were making generalised comments as a sweeping statement. I still feel the same however in relation to the majority and minority as I really dont think nurses are paid enough wherever they are for the job they do... I could be in a minority on that one here though lol ;-)

Benson great comments!! Really appreciate your thoughts..

 

[Kev]

I guess I've been fortunate, in that the vast majority of nursing staff I've dealt with here in Canada have been exceptional.... And the quality of their education is second to none... For instance, it's impossible to become a nurse here without qualifying for a B. Sc. degree.. (Bachelor of Science min of 3 years of university)..
Some may think I'm biased, because my dear grandmother was a British nurse in the 1st world war era... literally a member of the Florence Nightingale set..

However, that's not the case. I've seen some less than steller performers, and they seem to drift towards the late shift for some odd reason or other (perhaps it's just happenstance)... And I've seen qualified nurses being used/demanded in admin areas where they arent' qualified.. (God knows how many nurses I've seen who can't type 20 words a minute, cast into roles where it is required for admissions, lab reception, etc., etc.. WHY? A minimum wage steno could do it)

Then, there's the constant pilfering of our great nurses to places who can pay more money... much more money. I recall seeing the shocked looks on the faces of nurses who learned that unskilled construction labourers were striking for more pay... and that they currently made much more per hour than most of the nurses... ER or other specialty nurses with 20 yrs seniority the exception.

Anyway, a wise person told me something that I've always held close to me... You never piss off your bartender or waiter, and you never mess with a nurse.

Not if you know what's what....

We used to have diploma factories that handed out CNA's and LPNs (you could even become an LPN by correspondence at one time) willy nilly. Nurses unions took care of that... they strove to up the standards, theirs included, across the board. Then those institutes pumping out the CNA's N LPN's switched over to Hospice and Elder Care workers... That seems to be on the way out now, due mostly to the lack of Hospice's or Elder care facilities.. there's no job market to feed it. Think the next step will be Medical or Laboratory Technicians, but thats tricky as there ARE associations that 'police' who can/can't be called a technician... Anyway, I digress. Thing of it is, professionals owe themselves and their community a responsibility to police within their professions; and if it doesn't get done; they should 'own' a great deal of the blame. End of sermon.

 

[Guest]

i think, as in any profession, and certainly within my experience of hospitals, there are good and bad nurses, and some in the middle. i've had some with absolutely no care or empathy in their whole body, others who will sit up all night and let me cry on their shoulder if need be.. some will scare the hell out of you just because they "know" more than you do, others will sit and explain things so you understand completely. and also, i think sometimes the failing is not on the nurse him or herself - it is because they are in the wrong place, not in the ward where they specialise. plus, they are often overtired, overworked, and over-paperworked. fortunately, the angels seem to outnumber the other kind, and they are the ones i remember and am grateful for their care.

 

[Kev]

Here's a little 'tidbit' making headlines in my neck of the woods. Not about nurses, but another pathologist. A review of a number of his cases from New Brunswick was undertaken, and made public. (bear in mind that the lawyers for this dr. are of the opinion that he is being targeted, being made a scapegoat, and that the intent is to ruin his reputation AND drive him out of the profession. I don't know how much truth there is to their viewpoint of the news regarding him... I'm only regurgitating the stories making the news). In this initial review (and it's rare that this review was made public) it is alleged he mistakenly diagnosed - either negatively or positively - over a hundred cases of suspected cancer.. resulting in at least 8 cases where people died, and others who underwent surgery for cancer where no cancer existed. In a followup, it has been announced that a further 24,000 cases handled by this doctor will now be reviewed... Apparently he was suffering personal health issues, and those may have contributed to his supposed 'errors' (I say supposed because bear in mind this was a 'peer' review, and not from a court trial setting, okay?).

I 'wonder' how many cases of 'suspected' crohns crossed this doctors desk? I wonder if they even appear on the radar... Vs the headline grabbers like cancer

 

[BWS1982]

Was he an Oncologist or gen. dr. Kev?

Did he even work with IBD?

 

[Kev]

He is a pathologist... And apparently everything crossed his desk for number of years... so, I'm assuming that biopsies or polyps taken out during scopes for IBD did cross his path as welll... unlike the other pathologist in another neighbouring province here whose specialty was pathology of suspected cancers.. perhaps just breast cancer (but i can't swear to that, both news or I may be wrong about it).. I believe I heard that this latest incident involves the past 10 years only, whereas the other case evolved over a number of decades.

Ahhh, Canadian health care... the "best" money CAN'T buy.. Oh, well, they say you get what you pay for... OR, what do you expect for nothing? Competence?

 

[Colt]

Kev, I heard a lot of complaining about the health care system was I was living in Canada and how it would all be better if it was private like the states. I live and work in the health care industry in the US (in a top hospital area at that) and I had extensive use of the Canadian health care system while I was living in Nova Scotia where the Canadian system is at some of it's worst.

I assure you every problem I have ever heard a Canadian complain about is even worse in the US. Usually a LOT worse. On top of that half of the population gets no health care. The Canadian system has twice as much of it's population going through it's hospitals and it does it better than the US can by far. It truly annoys me hearing Canadians complain about their health care system because they have absolutely no idea how petty their complaints are compared to someone who's been treated in the states.

Whine whine whine about waiting clear up to 6 hours in a hospital waiting room sometimes. Try a private health care system where 6 hours is AVERAGE. I remember I was taken to the ER once and waited 12 hours before they could even get me in and see if I was bleeding out from my intestines. We can rarely ever even get all of our admitted patients into a damn room during the first 24 hours and that includes rather severe cases laying in an exam room or hallway somewhere.

Not to mention I haven't been able to see a doctor in 6 years despite horrible flare-ups and disabling daily problems because if I went the tests would bankrupt me; and me, my wife, and our soon to be born baby would be living in a homeless shelter. I'd rather die than to do that to my family. If we had to pay for all the treatment my wife received while in Canada (she had hypoglycemia so bad she started having hallucinations and seizures) we'd already be homeless. In fact, if it had happened in the states we probably wouldn't have even sought medical help until she slipped into a coma knowing the consequences of getting help. Waiting that long may have killed her.

The way I see it I owe my wife's life to the Canadian free health care system. In a few years my wife will probably owe my death to the American for-profit health care system. The health care system alone (not the mention all the other great things about Canada) is reason enough for me to wish so badly that I could still live in Canada but it all boiled down to the states not providing the paper work I needed to complete my immigration until it was too late. Now I would have to start all over again from scratch and I can't afford to do that. Overall my cause of death may boil down to the FBI taking 6 months to mail a criminal background check.