Views on this please???

[spencer2012]

i am wondering what peoples views are on this debate!!!
the current belief seems to be that crohns is an autoimmune disease causing the body to attack itself. i however, am of a different belief. after lots of research into this, here is my conclusion. please note this is only my opinion amassed from research and studies but keep an open mind and let me know your views on it.
i believe the cause of crohns is a bacteria called M.A.P, an abreviation of Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis. this bacteria can be found in pasturised milk and is the known cause of johnes disease in cattle. this disease has striking similarities to crohns. M.A.P can be found in the gut of 100% of crohns sufferers but not in the gut of a healthy person which in itself is cause for concern right?
100% of researchers isolate RNA belonging to M.A.P from 100% of crohns patients. the study then introduced a diet but milk was never excluded in these studies which means even with antibiotics the bacteria could have been reintroduced through this. bacteria are good at eventually becoming immune to antibiotics. i believe M.A.P feeds on lactose and as lactose is effectively a sugar it is not unreasonable to suggest it can be a source of food. take away somethings food source and it dies. I am of the belief now that a lactose free diet can be the most natural way to stay symptom free, maybe even more permanent as opposed to the short term affects given by antibiotics.
has anyone any views on this or maybe results from their own tests run as a lactose free patient. i am interested to hear from anyone with evidence for or against this argument

 

[Hope345]

Spencer,
I believe the MAP bacteria may be the cause as well.
We took our daughter off of lactose and within days she was doing better. It was in addition to her first treatments of REmicade, which the doctor said does not work that fast. She went from a moderate to severe case to mild Crohns.

In your research did you find out what anitbiotics are best to treat it? I have only recently started to research it again and found that Rifabutin and macrolide antibiotics were the antibiotic of choice and were very successful. About 75 percent of the patients went into remission.

The question is, how does that bacteria get into the gut of a person with Crohns? The bacteria itself is said to feed off of lactose but what caused it?

I know I need to do a lot more research: But so far I am a believer.

thank-you for adding this thread. I am curious to hear what others have found too. the best answers come from the ones who actually have Crohns.

 

[spencer2012]

Rifaximin is a favourite julie although combined antibiotics have been used such as, clarithromycin, rifabutin, and clofazimine on a two year period but proved to have no sustained benefits. so far I am finding it very hard to research where the M.A.P is introduced to our body as there seems to be limited information so at present i am workng on the theory that the disease itself may produce the bacteria which inturn feeds on lactose and grows. this would explain the absence within the system of a "normal" gut. could i be right? im not too sure as of yet but i will find out.

 

[D Bergy]

The MAP bacteria can be present in milk and other dairy products. It is not destroyed by standard pasteurization. That is how it is introduced into the intestines.

My own personal research, which does not carry a lot of weight, supports the position that the MAP bacteria plays a role in Crohns.

However, lots of people are exposed to the bacteria, but only some gets Crohn's. there is an immune system problem, but it is not the immune system attacking the body. It is attacking the bacteria, unsuccessfully. This constant battle results in constant inflammation and tissue damage.

Either normal immune systems are able to kill the bacteria, or they ignore it. What it is not doing is the never ending battle that our immune system is doing.

Other pathogens that may be involved are a strain of E-Coli, H-Pylori, and possibly some forms of Mycoplasma.

Dan

 

[nogutsnoglory]

So you think lactose free dairy would not contain MAP? Are organic cows susceptible to MAP?

 

[Hope345]

D Bergy,

You have some great info.
The last question is good..from nogutsnoglory
is the MAP bacteria in lactose free milk? We have been letting our daughter drink regular fat free milk with the lactose removed. (not referring to coconut, soy or almond milk)

Also, in your research are the anitbiotics effective in helping the person with Crohns fight off the bacteria and therefore going into remission? the clinical results used :Rifabutin and macrolide antibiotics with a 75% success rate.

 

[ellie]

I'm also of the opinion that MAP may have a significant role in Crohn's.
There's some excellent u tube videos from a few months ago on the forum by Prof Thomas Borody discussing putative MAP involvement. The treatment as discussed seems to involve a cocktail of antibiotics, taken over an extended period of time (months+.. like TB treatment)


HD

 

[bigtruck]

Professor JOHN Herman Taylor has been studying this for the past 20years.

 

[spencer2012]

i dont think its so much that lactose free milk contains MAP, i think its more that MAP feeds on lactose therefore can breed and strengthen. so if you take away the lactose (MAP's food source) the bacteria will die naturally thus meaning less inflamation and tissue damage when our gut tries to attack the bacteria. i think D Bergy makes a great point when he says a normal healthy gut kills off the MAP which would explain the very low number of sightings in a healthy gut and the fact that we, crohns sufferers have more. what we need to know now is why our system is unsuccessful in its plight against MAP!

 

[spencer2012]

the cocktail of antibiotics had a good result rate but were not proven to be be sustainable over a two year period

 

[Pointy_ears]

I tend to disagree, I have met crohns sufferers in hospital who have had lactose free diets since they were babies and have still been diagnosed with crohns in later life. Also if it was as simple as MAP causing the disease antibiotics and a lactose free diet would cure us all.

My GI is the associate editor of the world journal for gastroenterology and he is of the opinion that it is an autoimmune condition. He believes that the interaction of food and gut flora are insignificant and cannot be tested thoroughly or scientifically enough to produce statistically worth while results.

 

[D Bergy]

I do not know if MAP is present in lactose free milk or not. I would guess it is unless the process of making it destroys it.

Do a search of MAP and E-Coli. There is some research out there that indicates that certain strains of E-Coli feeds the MAP bacteria. If that is the case then you would have to eliminate both to really have an effect. There could be other pathogens also.

MAP is exceptionally difficult to kill with antibiotics. I used an experimental method to kill it where I had psoriasis. I do not know if I killed it internally or not.

Dan

 

[spencer2012]

im certainly not suggesting that its that simple. im simply suggesting that if you ask enough people, youll see that a lactose free diet has helped them with there symptoms no end. im not saying everyone will benefit. and i do not believe MAP itself is soley responsible for the cause of crohns disease but i am saying that there is far to much evidence to suggest that it plays a role somewhere in either the cause or the symptons.
like i said at the beginning of the thread these are my own personal beliefs and believe that MAP plays an important part in the structure of crohns disease

 

[D Bergy]

I believe that more often than not MAP is involved. But I also think there are likely cases of Crohns that do not involve MAP. Mine appears to involve both MAP and E-Coli. I also think Mycoplasma could cause fistulizing Crohns but I am not certain on that.

Dan

 

[spencer2012]

you may be correct bergy and i agree. but if you think about just exactly how many types of crohns there are or how many different ways it effects the parts of the body in each individual then it would be fair to say that in theory there could be several different causes which would denote each effect. i just believe the most common (colon) could be partly derived from MAP. obviously crohns can affect anywhere from your mouth to your anus, symptons can even reach the eyes, so im not saying MAP is responsible for all of these

 

[Danu]

I'm on a lactose free diet and still flaring. That said, I feel much better when I don't eat lactose, just not 100%.

Interesting info, thank you!

 

[spencer2012]

anything is better than nothing danu. glad to hear it

 

[kiny]

My view on this is that the autoimmune theory has no basis, there are no studies I know of that can actually show this. There are thousands of studies that show that crohn's disease is an innate immune deficiency.



Where the autoimmune (with still 0 proof) theory goes completely wrong:

-there are skip lesions in the intestine, those patters are patterns of bacteria, the whole gut would be inflamed if it was autoimmune, it's not

-NOD2 and ATG16L1 are mutated in a lot of crohn's disease patients, they result in immune deficiencies, they are needed for bacterial signaling and autophagy

-antibiotics are a viable treatment for crohn's disease, this wouldn't work if it was autoimmune disease

-the terminal ileum / colon is the place with the highest concentration of bacteria in our body, someone who says it is autoimmmune but not bacteria related is pretty pretentious to claim that considering the place of inflammation

-inflammation together with fevers is always a sign of bacterial involvement, crohn's disease is the exception? I doubt it

-LF82 AIEC and plenty of other bacteria like MAP have been found in crohn's disease patients, this is normal considering the immune deficiencies, they also cause an immune response

-LF82 are found concentrated in the place of lesion

-the increase in crohn's disease can not be explained by genetics anymore, again debunking the autoimmune theory

-the mere idea that our body decided to turn against us and attack our own instestine for no reason is a pretty ridiculous theory

-no autoantigens, required to explain the autoimmune theory, have been found, again the autoimmune theory has 0 evidence

 

[kiny]

"Crohn's disease is often considered an autoimmune condition, based on the observations of a histopathological inflammatory process in the absence of identifiable causal microorganism(s) and that immune-modulating therapeutics result in diminished host-directed inflammatory pathology. However, the evidence for a self-targeted immune response is unproven; thus, the instigating and perpetuating forces that drive this chronic inflammation remain unknown. In recent years, a convergence of findings from different fields of investigation has led to a new paradigm, where Crohn's disease appears to be the consequence of an intrinsic innate immune deficiency. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23256761

 

[kiny]

Rifaximin is a favourite julie

I just wanted to point out that Rifaximin is highly ineffective against MAP, there is a study from 2009 that tested effectiveness against MAP.

The reason for Rifaximin's ineffectiveness is that it's not intracellular and MAP bacteria are intracellular. Effective antibiotics are all the macrophage-penetrating types, clarithromycin, ciprofloxacin, clofazimine, rifabutin, rifampicin and a few others.

Rifaximin is able to kill AIEC however, almost all antibiotics are able to kill AIEC except for amoxicillin which is only effective against very few strains, basically ineffective. That's also why it doesn't create resistance.

Mind you, all those macrophage-penetrating antibiotics are not light antibiotics, they are heavy stuff, deciding to go on them should not be taken lightly. You can not just go on and off them, you'll create resistance if you do that.

 

[kiny]

My GI is the associate editor of the world journal for gastroenterology and he is of the opinion that it is an autoimmune condition. He believes that the interaction of food and gut flora are insignificant and cannot be tested thoroughly or scientifically enough to produce statistically worth while results.

Unless he has evidence, which he doesn't, unless he can consistently show which autoantigens are involved in crohn's disease causing inflammation in the intestine, which he can't, unless he can explain why this would cause skip lesions, unless he can explain why all the studies where antibiotics have put people in remission are wrong, unless he can explain the exponential increase in crohn's disease, he should leave his opinion at the door.

It's those opinions, without any proof that set back research for crohn's disease.

I am open for other theories, I'm not open for theories that have been perpetuated by a group of GI without evidence.

If you want to claim it's an autoimmune disease, show us, I can show you thousands of studies that contradict his opinion.


The tests themselves for crohn's disease like ASCA, like OmpC, like anti-saccharomyces ARE tests against bacteria and fungi, they are used to diagnose people, does that same GI think all those tests are useless?

The biopsies themselves check for granuloma for macrophage presence.

Why doesn't he join the forum and explain how crohn's disease has nothing to do with bacteria. How does he diagnose crohn's diseae without all those tests, with a magic wand?

 

[Misty-Eyed]

Spencer, do you have any studies to back up your claim that "100% of researchers isolate RNA belonging to M.A.P from 100% of crohns patients." Only I have a study here where they tested for short DNA fragments of MAP in the granuloma of patients with Crohn's and had the following conclusion:

In conclusion, the possibility of an association between M. paratuberculosis and Crohn’s disease remains controversial. M. paratuberculosis was rarely found in intestinal granuloma among patients with active Crohn’s disease, making it unlikely that it plays a major role in the etiopathogenesis of Crohn’s disease in North America.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but the area is still really controversial and there's no way of proving that MAP is a primary initiating agent for Crohn's or just a secondary opportunist pathogen which makes the inflammation worse.

As far as I'm aware, there are no studies to show that there's been a successful use of anti MAP therapy to treat Crohn's either.

In regards to lactose, I was on a lactose and egg free diet for 3 years and it did nothing to lesson my symptoms, unfortunately.

 

[kiny]

Also if it was as simple as MAP causing the disease antibiotics and a lactose free diet would cure us all.

Cows don't get cured from Paratuberculosis by giving them antibiotics at doses 10 times as high as humans, even putting them on iron depletion diets does nothing, MAP persists, why would it rid a human of MAP.

MAP reproduces at rates that are incredibly low, even for mycobacteria, you can not simply kill it in a matter of months like you can Tb, because of the slow rate this bacteria reproduces, not to mention that current antibiotics were never made to target MAP.

It takes months to culture this bacteria.

I'm not arguing in favor or against MAP as a causative agent, but people are way too fast to jump to conclusions, you can not simply kill MAP by given a few weeks of antibiotics.

 

[kiny]

As far as I'm aware, there are no studies to show that there's been a successful use of anti MAP therapy to treat Crohn's either.

There have been a few

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17369114

There are also many smaller case reports and a few individual case reports which I linked in the past.

What you can't exclude is that those antibiotics are killing AIEC or another pathogen or simply cause a shit in gut flora, unrelated to their ability to kill (or contain) MAP.

Those people in the study are also not tested for MAP, but considering how unreliable current tests are and how many false-negative there are, it wouldn't help the case, but those antibiotics were chosen because of their specific ability to kill MAP.

 

[Misty-Eyed]

There have been a few

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17369114

There are also many smaller case reports and a few individual case reports which I linked in the past.

What you can't exclude is that those antibiotics are killing AIEC or another pathogen or simply cause a shit in gut flora, unrelated to their ability to kill (or contain) MAP.

Those people in the study are also not tested for MAP, but considering how unreliable current tests are and how many false-negative there are, it wouldn't help the case, but those antibiotics were chosen because of their specific ability to kill MAP.

I found this interesting table in a paper published in 2009 on Intestinal bacteria and inflammatory bowel disease by Sandra Macfarlane, Helen Steed, and George T. Macfarlane.
It's quite an interesting paper actually. Interesting on how all of the results are mixed.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/chocisfab/ScreenShot2012-12-29at014118_zpsa694cb95.png

 

[kiny]

I found this interesting table in a paper published in 2009 on Intestinal bacteria and inflammatory bowel disease by Sandra Macfarlane, Helen Steed, and George T. Macfarlane.
It's quite an interesting paper actually. Interesting on how all of the results are mixed.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/chocisfab/ScreenShot2012-12-29at014118_zpsa694cb95.png

Same, they are very mixed. But detection of MAP, AIEC, all the types of substrains are also mixed and their resistance against antibiotics depends on prior antibiotics use and inherent resistance of the strain.

It's really unlikely to me that crohn's disease is a single disease, there's differences in genes, differences in location of disease, some respond to antibiotics, some don't seem to respond at all.

 

[kiny]

Also, a lot of those people on triple or dual antibiotic therapy that include the macrophage penetrating types are refractory patients, they are often not mild cases, often moderate to servere. So positive results in those studies are positive, it's not like you can discredit them like you can with pentasa trials, those drops in CDAI scores are real, and the remission in those people is real, there's not much room for argument, those people in that australian trial were very severe cases of crohn's disease.

They don't give those antibiotics combos to someone who complains about stomach ache, they're very severe cases usually.

Rifaximin and Flagyl would be the exception, but they're also not effective against MAP.

The issue with the current antibiotics is that the only type that has low bioavailability being used is Rifaximin, also why it has so few possible side-effects, and because they are not specific for crohn's disease, and the length of therapy needed, which often results in resistance and the antibiotic will become ineffective.

No sustained benefit is a very common theme in the antibiotics trials, resistance is very common.

 

[kiny]

Linked this study a time ago, just linking for the interested, rabbits, monkeys, cats, dogs, sheep, pigs, elk, cows, goats, etc have paratuberculosis.

Saying MAP would have no detrimental effect on humans is saying we are invulnerabile to a bacteria that affects many species, including primates.

It's not even a question if MAP has an effect on humans, it causes an immune response, you're just arguing if it's detrimental and if the MAP in crohn's disease patients is enough to cause the clinical symptoms. The fact it's there in people and causes an immune response has been shown.

If it's causative, if it's in a subgroup only, if it's enough to cause crohn's disease, is up for argument, the fact it's there in a subgroup and is causing an immune response is proven. They find a lot of AIEC in studies and not MAP also, I think if some people with crohn's disease have MAP causing the inflammation, it would at best be a subgroup.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3559275

"Mycobacterium paratuberculosis infection was documented in a colony of stumptail macaque monkeys (Macaca arctoides), with 29 (76%) of 38 monkeys infected and shedding organisms in feces. Thirteen deaths have occurred during the past five years. Animals without overt clinical disease were shedding as many as 2 X 10(6) colony-forming units of M. paratuberculosis/g of feces. Intestinal tissues from animals dying of this disease contained up to 10(8) colony-forming units of M. paratuberculosis/g of tissue. The clinical and pathological features of paratuberculosis in this species were comparable to those reported for paratuberculosis in ruminants and Mycobacterium avium infections in primates. By enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay, antibodies to M. paratuberculosis were found in 79%-84% of the animals. Antibodies could not be detected in six animals with clinical disease. These findings extend the natural host range of M. paratuberculosis to include nonhuman primates and add support to current suggestions that M. paratuberculosis may be pathogenic for humans"

 

[Hope345]

Kiny,

You have obviously done your research and thank-you for sharing so much valuable information.
What do you believe is the best treatment for this complicated disease?
and do you believe fecal transplants are worth trying?
appreciate your opinion.

 

[kiny]

What do you believe is the best treatment for this complicated disease?

I don't know, anything I say is my personal opinion, I hope no one bases any choices on things I say, I just wanted to chime in since I enjoy discussing MAP. I do echo a recent study that said antibiotics are somewhat underused at the moment, I do believe they are worthwhile treatments for people with severe crohn's disease who become refractory patients, the macrophage penetrating antibiotics have potential side-effects but considering the alternatives, they have a decent safety profile and GI should consider using them more, many studies have shown benefits.

The times antibiotics are used for Crohn's disease they are often improperly used, on and off, and without the right dosage, many isolated AIEC strains show resistance from prior antibiotics use.

and do you believe fecal transplants are worth trying?

I think they are worthwile for C Difficile and perhaps UC. If crohn's disease is related to AIEC or MAP they wouldn't be very effective, AIEC are present in submucosa and both are intracellular, fecal transplants wouldn't be an effective treatment for them.

 

[spencer2012]

misty I must conceed that my statement on rna isolation is through many independent studies ive read up on, unfortunately whatever I read, due to the nature of our illness, someone somewhere will read something to counter it. Its my belief that as nothing is concrete with crohns then every prognosis made will be challenged. I guess that proves just how little solid information we actually have.
secondly I did say that Im not saying MAP is the primary cause of crohns but i believe it is connected to our illness somewhere. id like to know where and I also said earlier that as there are many different strains, strengths and types of crohns that i dont believe a lactose free diet will benefit everyone but ive asked a lot of people and checked a lot of stats and it seems lactose free has helped many people.

 

[D Bergy]

Quite a few people do not tolerate lactose, Crohns or not, so it is always worth trying.

Dan

 

[JulieMcCoy]

Professor John Hermon-Taylor of Kings College London has been working tirelessly on proving the MAP theory for over 11 years [CORRECTION: He has been working on this for about 30 years, but he retired 11 years ago and has been working on this tirelessly since, using his own money] and has now reached the stage where he has a vaccine ready to go and is creating a simple MAP test that would be used before giving the vaccine.

In 2008 he made a series of videos explaining where MAP started (in Germany, in cows, the disease known as Johne's, pronounced Yoannes) and how it spread throughout the world, and how it came to be present in humans. They are amazing (if a bit roughly filmed) videos that, after 20 years of wondering, searching, trialling all sorts of wierd 'treatments', finally gave me the peace of mind of knowing when, where, how and why I have this awful disease (I grew up on a dairy farm, I swam in contaminated water on many occasions, I drank warm school milk daily in the UK).

Here are the links to his videos, and I have attached his latest notice from Kings College.

The Professor's Research Findings (YouTube Videos From 2008):

Part 1-CROHN M.A.P. by John Hermon Taylor:
youtube.com/watch?v=5pYuf5rnnQo

Part 2-CROHN M.A.P. by John Hermon Taylor:
youtube.com/watch?v=VRt5sbc2LOs

Part 3-CROHN M.A.P. by John Hermon Taylor:
youtube.com/watch?v=pUg1hlKsM7o

Part 4-CROHN M.A.P. by John Hermon Taylor:
youtube.com/watch?v=7XScG474EiI

Part 5-CROHN M.A.P. by John Hermon Taylor:
youtube.com/watch?v=0TBd-bddNjE

The Professor has applied for numerous Grants but is being blocked because it is considered "controversial". When you watch the videos you can kind of see why, as this affects the dairy industry, the water treatment industry, and more, globally. So he needs to raise money through the corporate sector.

Professor Hermon-Taylor's daughter Dr Amy Hermon-Taylor is doing a marathon run in the UK to raise money for the diagnostic test and vaccine trials:
DONATIONS via Dr Amy: justgiving.com/Run-For-Crohns-MEN3936
Dr Amy's Facebook Page: facebook.com/RunForCrohns

I have no association with either of them, have never met them, but I have just offered my services to start helping to promote his work and have made a personal donation via JustGiving. I intend to start posting this information on all Crohn's forums so I apologise if you see this repeatedly.

By the way, in the videos, note how MAP appears to be behind IBS and Colitis as well, and having read up on other studies (no Prof. Hermon-Taylor), some say that smoking at an early age does appear to have a link between the disease presenting as Crohn's rather than just IBS or Colitis (I smoked from age 12-21). Also, there are some studies that suggest MAP could also be behind some forms of thyroidism and other diseases.

Note: I do not have a medical background. I am a Crohn's and IBS sufferer, have had a Terminal Ileum Resection and have been left with BAM. I suffer from symptoms of Thyroidism although 3 thyroid tests showed negative. I refuse to sit back and do nothing when there is a potential cure ready to go, and bureaucracy is standing in its way. Please help me to spread the word.

 

[wild_one353]

i am wondering what peoples views are on this debate!!!
the current belief seems to be that crohns is an autoimmune disease causing the body to attack itself. i however, am of a different belief. after lots of research into this, here is my conclusion. please note this is only my opinion amassed from research and studies but keep an open mind and let me know your views on it.
i believe the cause of crohns is a bacteria called M.A.P, an abreviation of Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis. this bacteria can be found in pasturised milk and is the known cause of johnes disease in cattle. this disease has striking similarities to crohns. M.A.P can be found in the gut of 100% of crohns sufferers but not in the gut of a healthy person which in itself is cause for concern right?
100% of researchers isolate RNA belonging to M.A.P from 100% of crohns patients. the study then introduced a diet but milk was never excluded in these studies which means even with antibiotics the bacteria could have been reintroduced through this. bacteria are good at eventually becoming immune to antibiotics. i believe M.A.P feeds on lactose and as lactose is effectively a sugar it is not unreasonable to suggest it can be a source of food. take away somethings food source and it dies. I am of the belief now that a lactose free diet can be the most natural way to stay symptom free, maybe even more permanent as opposed to the short term affects given by antibiotics.
has anyone any views on this or maybe results from their own tests run as a lactose free patient. i am interested to hear from anyone with evidence for or against this argument

you will find a reduction in symptoms by also removing sucrose. so the same interactions in IBD patients are found with di-sacharides, lactose and sucrose.

these observations are the basis for the specific carbohydrate diet.


its much more then map, a group of bacteria called teh enterobacteria are 10x higher in ibd patients, and this may be a result of the chronic inflammation as some studies have found. the inflammation releases nitrogen compounds as a fertilizer for pathogens. but there are even other process that are going on which encourage pathogens to exist in our guts beside the ones i just mentioned. its a complex disease which we may not define in any simple terms.

a basic destruction of the good bacteria is likely the main cause of all this, not map, nor any other bacteria., they are simply effects of the disease, not the first true cause. A fecal transplant is the only thing that can correct all this and has been proven to work already and this is why 7 clinical trials are planned in the next 2 years. yet only 2 of them are for crohns.

 

[Ihurt]

I also think the Fecal transplant makes the most sense. I bet sometime in the future they will be using this as a treatment for most Bowel disorders.

 

[JulieMcCoy]

Having read so many theories for so many years, for what it is worth, here are my observations:

1. You have to be susceptible in the first place. For me, I was a sickly child because I had an appalling diet of sugary foods, nothing healthy, cola instead of water. Not hereditary, my parents had healthy bowels. I was however on antibiotics from as far back as I can remember. I recall having amoxycillin (as it was then known) for every little ailment! Hence, the good bacteria in my bowels would have been destroyed making me susceptible to bad bacteria.
   
2. I would have picked up the Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis (MAP) at any time from the age of 5 - because I grew up with cattle, I played with and amongst them, I swam in water contaminated with cattle faeces (regularly), I drank warm milk at school that would not have been pasteurised to a high enough temp. to kill the MAP.
   
3. The MAP penetrates the bowel wall and makes it permeable, allowing other dangerous bacteria (and now abundant, because I had no good bacteria) to penetrate the bowel wall.
   
4. The immune system attacks the bowel wall to kill the alien invaders, causing inflammation, and yes, I see your point, potentially giving off nitrogen gas - a compounding problem. From the age of 13 I complained of bowel pain - I was told it was growing pains. From the age of 12 I smoked (until 21). [There are some researchers that say smoking at an early age when infested by MAP, also compounds the problem, and could be one of the triggers that differentiates between having Crohns, Colitis or IBS. Smoking alone is not the only potential trigger though, before someone says they have Crohn's and never smoked].
   
5. I took probiotics in my 20s and had a healthy diet. I also had more antibiotics, for whatever reason, and so went around and around in circles. Kill off the bad bacteria and my immune system stops attacking the bowel wall. But in doing so, I kill off the good bacteria and nothing kills off the MAP (yet, until Prof. Hermon-Taylor's vaccine human trials are underway) so more bad bacteria takes over and penetrates the bowel wall. And the inflammation starts again. Round and round in circles.

I was not officially diagnosed with the Crohn's until I was 30, in spite of lots of horrid tests. Once they finally found it, my Ilieum was badly damaged and I was advised to have it partially removed. I researched every theory, and tried endless natural therapies and managed to delay surgery for 13 years.

So, I do believe Professor Hermon-Taylor is right. We have to kill off the MAP and allow our bowel wall to repair* to stop all the other very bad bacteria (c-dif, enterobacteriacae) from being able to penetrate the bowel wall in the first place. We all have bad bacteria in our bowels, we just have to stop it entering the bowel wall.

I am back on the vicious circle now, going on Rifaximin (an antibiotic that stays mainly in the bowel, very limited amount enters the bloodstream), which will only kill off the bad bacteria (not the MAP) and unfortunately any good bacteria, but I am going to take probiotics that are resistant to antibiotics, and I am using a fantastic product called "Gut Relief" by Nutrition Care that helps to line the bowel wall, sooth, protect and assist the mucous membranes.

I am hopeful that the MAP vaccine will be available in the next couple of years to end this cycle and with a healthy diet, probiotics and herbal medications* my body can start to repair.

My thoughts on fecal transplant: I'm sure it will work, for a while, but if the MAP is still prevalent, it will, in time, flare the Crohn's, Colitis or IBS up again, should the good bacteria be killed off by a dose of antibiotics, for some other, unrelated ailment (such as a chest infection).

Natural Medicines:
I have tried countless natural medicines, these are the ones that I have found to help (I have no affiliation with these companies):
• Gut Relief by Nutrition Care (includes Glutamine, Curcumin/Turmeric, Slippery Elm, Peppermint and more)
• Iberogast Oral Liquid (for gas discomfort)
• Pain Relief by Ethical Nutrients (Curcumin/Turmeric & Boswellia Serrata)
• Gastro Relief by Ethical Nutrients (Lactobillus Rhamnosus, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae) bile acid resistant probiotics
• IBS Support by Ethical Nutrients (Lactobacillus Platarum) bile acid resistant probiotics

Vitamin D3
There have been links between Crohn's and Vit D3 deficiency - and/or therpeutic benefits of D3 on Crohns. Bit of a chicken and the egg scenario but I got tested recently and was found to be deficient, so I am also taking D3 and D/Calcium combination. The correct test is 25(OH)D - you have to be specific because there is another test, the 1,25(OH)D, that does not give the correct result. You can search "D3 and Crohns" on google, there is lots of info on this.

These are my own findings, these are the natural medications that work best for me. See your natural therapist and/or doctor before taking medications, we aware of contra-indications.

ADDENDUM
With diet, I have found that anything that ferments and sits in the bowel for a long period, along with sugars, feed the bad bacteria and cause bloating, gas, cramping etc. ie. sugars, carbs (slightly better with Spelt), lactose, high fructose fruits, etc. Low fructose, low carb diet certainly helps. I also find that hypersensitivity comes hand in hand with the Crohn's, along with poor vision, ie. if I have a flare up of Crohn's, I am also intolerant of wheat, dairy, fructose, etc. have poorer vision, and get severe hay-fever symptoms with pollen and chemicals (such as toiletries, cleaning products, etc.). If I am in remission, my vision is sharper, I do not have hay-fever and, for a short period of time I can eat virtually anything. I don't believe this is anything the do with the cause, but is a significant and frustrating side affect.

 

[pb]

If you have lactose intolerance issues, then of course you will feel better but you're crohn's is still crohn's and they are 2 separate entities...I have lactose intolerance as well and avoiding it helps, but I'm still sick with my CD. I have IBS as well, my GI believes that due to having active CD for so many years with no full remission brought IBS on as well.

The immune system is scientifically linked to IBD even with Celiacs, you take away the wheat and gluten and the inflammation for the Celiacs patient heals, it's just unfortunate they cannot figure out the whole deal with crohn's and UC, but they do know that it's the immune system that is incorrectly attacking the good bacteria in our system thinking it's attacking bad bacteria which in turn causes the inflammation in UC and CD...

Un-cross the wires in the immune system and it will stop attacking the intestines...our immune systems are malfunctioned (not over active or under active as researchers used to argue about years ago, they now realize it's a malfunction--getting wrong messages and therefore attacking).