What if vitamin B12 was illegal like marijuana

[David]

Let's suppose that vitamin B12 was illegal because a bunch of dumbasses a century ago decided for some inane reason that it should be. Propaganda and law enforcement would have people believing that it was bad, that it would lead to bad things. People would be getting sick and yes, there would be an occasional study showing that using vitamin B12 was beneficial but it's illegal so too bad. Instead, here, take this medication that merely covers up your peripheral neuropathy and depression and fatigue and has a whole host of other potential side effects.

Don't you DARE take that terrible IV drug B12. Sure, your depression and fatigue and tingling go away, but that's just because you're high. What you're feeling is wrong. Sure, there are specific Cubam receptors in the terminal ileum for vitamin B12, but that means nothing. Who cares that the body has evolved for its use.

And people would be getting sick.

What if Cannabis is actually an essential nutrient? There are cannabinoid receptors all through the body. Our body has evolved to interact with cannabis and there's an ever-increasing number of studies that show those interactions are beneficial.

What if by denying ourselves cannabis we're in essence denying ourselves vitamin B12. All because some dumbasses long ago said it should be illegal.

 

[David]

Hi Ray,

I'm weary of discussing vitamin B12 and its beneficial qualities with you as for all I know, you're DEA. But I guess that would be entrapment so I'll risk it. Luckily this isn't open to the public so people can't see me discussing B12 in the search engines. I'd potentially lose my day job.

People with active disease in the ileal region of the intestines (the most common area for Crohn's Disease to be) are at substantially increased risk of vitamin B12 deficiency and being deficient in it is bad news. If you are indeed deficient then yes, the probability that what you're taking is that complex B vitamin is sufficient is extremely low. However, for many, even high dose oral forms would not be sufficient either (especially if you believe like me that your serum level of B12 should be greater than 500). I realize that you don't have insurance but if you have any symptoms of B12 deficiency then I'd call around to labs in your area and ask how much they would charge for cash payment at time of visit for a B12 test. Around here you can get it done for like $40.00. I'm always weary of blindly supplementing vitamins or minerals without knowing what you're truly deficient in and your specific levels (so you can track and adjust dosage as needed) though if a Crohnie was going to blindly supplement something and I had to choose one, it would be B12 along with a complex B to avoid creation of imbalances.

But remember, taking B12 may result in jail time, loss of employment, derision by peers and it is shown to be a gateway drug. There is a very high correlation between taking vitamin B12 and one day taking vitamin D as well. *gasp*

 

[RaymondH]

Thanks for the advice. I need to spend some more time looking into my health. Working for yourself (kind of a misnomer if you ask me) has its advantages, but free time is not one of them. I may have more access to some testing in the near future, but will look into the lab as you mentioned. First I'll look a little more into the symptoms. I just figured it was pain, poor digestion, poor sleep, too much work, etc making me tired! I did notice from your posts that you discourage blindly supplementing - if I can get the coverage I am sure she will be doing more tests. The only thing my doc told me to take (she has been seeing me for free; don't know how she does it as part of a big HMO) is calcium because of the steriod usage. (Taking calcium + vit D)

There is a very high correlation between taking vitamin B12 and one day taking vitamin D as well. *gasp*

LOL. *gasp* And, did you know that there is an even higher correlation between drinking whiskey and having drank milk at some time prior?

 

[Jonhenry]

This was a fun topic to run across. I don't remember what my blood tests were when they started giving me B12 shots monthly, but now they let me do it at home. I guess I just thought they gave this stuff out to help with fatigue, etc. after simple bloodwork. Guess I got lucky with my Dr.

It can freak friends out to see a box of syringes and a sharps box in your kitchen cabinet lol.

 

[SarahAnne]

Dear heavens, David!! I should have been warned before.....

I am taking a B12 and D3 daily. I realize I need help now, I've been strongly considering taking calcium as well.

What on earth will my children think??? :ylol:

 

[pjtyler]

Interesting parallel!

I can tell you that NOT taking my b12 while in school led to severe depression and exhaustion in me. It literally ruined a good part of my junior year. I used to be really bad about taking my meds, and my doctor didn't tell me that B12 was REALLY important to take. After I regularly started taking my injections, I was an entirely different person!

I just hope the feds don't find out...

 

[SkinnyNinny]

Interesting post, and timely too for me. I have a little story to tell.

In 1992 after a prolonged bout of pain and tests that I won't get into, surgery removed my terminal ileum and some small intestine. About five years later in another part of the country I was found to be anemic. The doctor gave me iron and B12 shots to boost my system. I was low in everything. Injections lasted about 6 months. It helped, I no longer craved ice cold water and wasn't as tired.

Years go by, another couple of moves. Depression, tiredness, lack of sleep, poor concentration, bad memory, pain symptoms, multiple drugs to treat the symptoms. Self-medication by me with cannabis, which had the most positive impact on my health (increased weight, alleviated depression symptoms, decreased pain and improved relaxed bowels) but of course illegal and a treatment that my doctor would not condone.

Fast forward 12 years to this past December. Emergency surgery to repair a hole in my small intestine and duodenum where the site of my previous surgery had attached itself. Recovering, trying to make improvements in diet and dealing with an ileostomy, I asked the doctor to test me for celiac disease (after all, I should know whether I'm intolerant to gluten, right?!) and check my B12.

My doctor of ten years, who has followed my symptoms and complaints and prescribed many types of medications, tells me I have pernicious anemia and require B12 injections. OK, so I do. I also read the Wikipedia entry for 'pernicious anemia' and it says right there - removal of terminal ileum will require B12 injections because the body can no longer absorb it.

I have noticed a huge improvement in all of my symptoms. Better memory, concentration, sleep, improved mood and energy levels. That $#%#%$^& doctor could have fixed me ten years ago and I could have had a much improved life. I will be lucky if I don't have permanent neurological damage, since prolonged lack of B12 will do that. I still have some numbness in limbs from time to time.

I am lucky to have found cannabis since without it I probably would have given up hope and offed myself a long time ago. I'm sure the doctor assumed all my complaints about memory, concentration etc were all from the weed - but these and more are all symptoms of low B12.

I know this is off-topic to your thread. I'm a newbie and look forward to reading more posts!

If B12 made you high, it would indeed be illegal (unless of course it came in bottles ala alcohol). I feel on an entirely new level of life with B12 back to normal. But I know that if and when my symptoms of pain return I will be turning to cannabis not my doctor.

I would love to report that doctor to the medical association. However I know they close ranks and protect each other. Maybe there's a forum for legal issues?

 

[SarahAnne]

It seems your hypothetical parallel has more truth to it than fiction, David......

I had a follow up appointment with my GI yesterday, it was a fairly exasperating experience. During my last visit in February I had inquired about B12 injections as my GP doesn't do them at all (I found that strange, but whatever). My GI hemmed and hawed and finally said they'd get back to me after my blood work came in. I could take OTC B12 supplements until then.

I finally called the office, they said my B12 was in "normal" ranges, I could take OTC B12, blah, blah, blah.....

I didn't have any Crohn's related issues to bring to him yesterday, my gut has been very good. I only had two symptoms to bring to him yesterday. Overwhelming fatigue that I can't make go away. I've been eating right, I'm active, but by 2 or 3 in the afternoon I can barely stand up anymore. I've also been getting tingling and numbness in my extremeties, mostly my fingers. That has been so bad I've dropped and broken things.

I didn't even mention B12 before the doctor said, almost defensively (!), that my B12 was perfectly fine last time. I seriously felt like a patient being admonished for asking for pain meds! He finally made a big deal about humoring me with blood work, when I know good and well the bastard was going to do it anyway because I'm on Remicade!

Here's the thing. I've had my terminal ilieum removed. At what outrageous doses am I going to have to take OTC B12 to feel any difference? I don't care what my lab work says, I'm deficient. I can feel it, and I'm confused as to why every doc has B12 locked down like it's a class 3 narcotic.

Here's the funny thing. I could get medical grade marijuana, today, in a state where it is illegal faster than I could get a B12 injection. Exactly when did B12 become a controlled substance??

 

[David]

That's terrible SarahAnne.

But maybe I can give you some ammunition. What was your specific vitamin b12 level last time you were tested?

 

[SarahAnne]

The last time I was tested (February) I was at 330. They only check serum levels.

I'll be very surprised if my levels aren't lower than that now.

 

[SkinnyNinny]

SarahAnne, that is so bizarre. You show all the classic signs of B12 deficiency. Also known as pernicious anemia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pernicious_anemia

Well, at least here in Canada we don't need a prescription to buy B12, you can get it over the counter and 100cc (ten doses worth) costs less than $10. Pick up a few #27 syringes and it is possible to do it yourself or get a nurse to show you how. My doctor showed me and I was very scared at first, but it was easy and didn't hurt at all. I took it weekly for 5 weeks, now I'm doing it monthly. I haven't checked my last blood word to see how much it came up, I believe the level was at about 220 when I began. Will see if I can find it online.

 

[David]

The last time I was tested (February) I was at 330. They only check serum levels.

I'll be very surprised if my levels aren't lower than that now.

Next time you go to the doctor, take two things:

1. A coin.
2. A printout of this paper

Hand the coin to the doctor and ask them to flip it. Then hand them the paper and explain that 50% of people with levels of B12 between 200 and 400pg/ml are actually deficient.

"Was it heads or tails doc?"

*stare*