Younger immigrants at higher risk of developing IBD. (suggests environment not genetics)

[wild_one353]

just more evidence suggesting IBD is not due to genetics but most likely environmental causes.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150310091511.htm

 

[Robrich]

Thanks for the link wild bill. I think it confirms both genetic and environmental causes

, once they arrive the children of immigrants from the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia had the same incidence of IBD compared with the children of non-immigrants. In fact, there is a 14 per cent increased risk per younger decade of life at immigration. However, the children of immigrants from East Asia, Eastern Europe, Central Asia, Latin America and the Caribbean had lower incidence of IBD compared with the children of non-While their parents were at lower risk of developing IBD, once they arrive the children of immigrants from the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia had the same incidence of IBD compared with the children of non-immigrants. In fact, there is a 14 per cent increased risk per younger decade of life at immigration. However, the children of immigrants from East Asia, Eastern Europe, Central Asia, Latin America and the Caribbean had lower incidence of IBD compared with the children of non-immigrants.

And what is it about Canada that makes residents more prone to IBD? Vit D? Nah!

 

[Lady Organic]

yep thats my story. I arrived in Canada I was 1 year old, exactly from a region stated above.

 

[wild_one353]

yep thats my story. I arrived in Canada I was 1 year old, exactly from a region stated above.

interesting. here is the actual study.

I wonder if the fact that the younger immigrants were at an increased risk of IBD due to being more influenced by western diet, as the older immigrants have dietary habits still from country of origin.

http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ajg201552a.html

 

[mf15]

In china unsterilized water is associated with less IBD.
The incidence of IBD really started to increase somewhat 1900-1920.

As far a the increase in kids, the gut microbiome is more unstable when young.
The Faroe Islands have the highest IBD incidence in the world, if that can be figured
out then perhaps some other things might fall into place.
On confounder in the Faroe Islands might be the whale meat, they eat very high
in mercury.
Mike

 

[Crohnick]

Huh! On the Parent with Kids subforum I posted this topic wondering about early exposure to bisphenol A (BPA). Here's the gist of it.

L-methylfolate (what MTHFR produces from folate) is used in the cystein cycle to form methionine, which in turn is used to synthesize glutathione. Glutathione is a strong anti-oxidant enzyme in the body that scavenges toxins and heavy metals, getting rid of them. It also is used to make tetrahydrobiopterin. Now this is where things start getting interesting. Tetrahydropiopterin is one of the necessary co-factors for the production of nitric oxide (NO) by various nitric oxide synthases. One of these is the induced nitric oxide synthase (iNOS or NOS2), which is activated by immune system signaling to produce large quantities of NO during oxidative stress (inflammation), and infers macrophages with cytostatic and cytotoxic activity against viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, helmiths and cancer cells. Sounds like this is how macrophages kill off the intruder.

I wonder if in the West we have higher exposure due to widespread use in packaging in our food supply chain. And the higher exposure, combined with a common mutation on the folate reductase gene, effects some of our metabolic processes supporting our immune system in such a way that ultimately leads to an overtake of your normal gut bacteria by species that are foreign.

 

[mf15]

Crohnick: Perhaps. Been looking for reasons to have low glutathione, loss of redox protection may set off UC,by destroying basement membranes first,then letting in the bacteria past a weakened mucus barrier,then setting off the immune cascade.

I supplement with arginine which directly leads to more NO via iNOS I get worse, if I supplement with SOD which leads to increased hydrogen peroxide I get worse. If I try and methylate using methylfolate or methyl B12
I really have a bad time.
I have UC.
Early onset crohns people are dysbiotic, while UC are not at least by current testing.
Lots going on, we are all exposed to many chemicals that might disrupt things.
I might be something as simple as chlorinated water,which sets things off.

Here is a good history of IBD if your interested.
Most of the chemicals/antibiotics/vaccines were not around in 1900 but some were, as well as MAP.
Takes a while to load.
Enjoy Old Mike
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ibd.3780010103/pdf

 

[Lady Organic]

Inflammatory Bowel Disease: An Emergent Disease Among Ethiopian Jews Migrating to Israel:

http://journals.lww.com/ibdjournal/...y_Bowel_Disease___An_Emergent_Disease.16.aspx

 

[Lady Organic]

The Faroe Islands have the highest IBD incidence in the world, if that can be figured
out then perhaps some other things might fall into place.
On confounder in the Faroe Islands might be the whale meat, they eat very high
in mercury.
Mike

moreover:

From wiki:

''Traditional food in Faroe Islands:


Traditional Faroese food is mainly based on meat, seafood and potatoes and uses *few* fresh vegetables. Mutton is the basis of many meals, and one of the most popular treats is skerpikjøt, well aged, wind-dried mutton, which is quite chewy.s

Since the friendly British occupation, the Faroese have been fond of British food, in particular *fish and chips* and British-style *chocolate* such as *Cadbury Dairy Milk*, which is found in many of the island's shops, whereas in Denmark this is scarce.''

 

[mf15]

The Faroes import much meat from Demark which is a high MAP area.

Here is a little something on Indian goat herders. and MAP.
Old Mike
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21703899

 

[Crohnick]

Crohnick: Perhaps. Been looking for reasons to have low glutathione, loss of redox protection may set off UC,by destroying basement membranes first,then letting in the bacteria past a weakened mucus barrier,theo
Here is a good history of IBD if your interested.
Most of the chemicals/antibiotics/vaccines were not around in 1900 but some were, as well as MAP.
Takes a while to load.
Enjoy Old Mike
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ibd.3780010103/pdf

Mike, thanks for the history lesson. Struck me how over 300 years we still know so relatively little about this disease .

 

[mf15]

Cronhnic:This is the best history on IBD I have been able to find,been researching
this dam disease for 35 years now.
Anyway pay particular attention to the time period roughly 1890-1920 with the increase
in cases in the British hospitals. Sure some of the increase was from better medical
awareness. But something was causing the increase back then.
A zillion changes have taken place, what caused it then perhaps different than now, or
more insults to the gut now then back then, and an additive effect.
Something perhaps as simple as the switch over from sourdough bread to industrial bakers yeast breads,water chlorination,use of veggie oils,aluminum in baking soda, pasteurization, canning,spread of MAP,I can go on and on, but you get the picture.
Old Mike

 

[Crohnick]

Mike, Bill, Lady,

Riddle me this: What is one of the requirements for immigrantion to a new country, especially developed nations?

I'm going somewhere with this but I want to hear your answers first.

 

[mf15]

I suspect vaccination.
But increases in IBD happened before widespread vaccination.
Except perhaps smallpox.
Of course vaccination may be one of the additive factors that is going on today.
Old Mike

 

[Crohnick]

Okay how about DTaP, and specifically, its Tetanus (Clostridium Tetani) component.

Can the body mistakenly develop and immunity against some common pattern shared by all of these bacteria and mistakenly kill them off in the gut. That in turn leads to a whole host of problems about the dysbiosis you hear so much about?

I posted in the Parents with Kids section some history on my kid why I suspect this. He probably showed a partial immune response so he managed for about a decade with little symptoms other than some stomach discomfort but nothing more. But then he got his booster at 10 and the symptoms started piling on.

And the Tetanus vaccine was developed in the 1924 and given to soldiers for WWII and soon thereafter was expanded to the general population. Kind of overlays with the greater incidence of Crohn's and the history it has there. I have to go back and read the book you linked above.

Maybe this also explains why some of the fecal transplants though promising at first, don't take. Because the body will just kill off too many of the wrong clostridia bacteria?

I'm going to ask my kid's GI about it and maybe get him referred to an immunologist.

 

[mf15]

Here is something for you but not sure where it might lead.
You can search google and pubmed for all kinds of info.
Of course they find a million things wrong with our immune response,
the question is what is really wrong.
OM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3873371

 

[Lady Organic]

I wonder if the fact that the younger immigrants were at an increased risk of IBD due to being more influenced by western diet, as the older immigrants have dietary habits still from country of origin.
/full/ajg201552a.html[/url]

This is for sure one key of the puzzle. I grew up in a town where there were very few immigrants back then and we lived the canadian way. I was really not happy with my origins and was rejecting them. I think this happens to a lot of immigrant kids. The cultural food was one thing I rejected a lot, as opposed to my parents. I didn't like it at all. On top of it, my father would buy a lot of transformed food, as this appeared to be extreme good value to him. Dad has always been big on savings and special deals! My mom never cooked and my father did the best he could, but quality food was not at the rendez-vous. I remember eating on a regular basis (basically everyday) Chef Boyardee, Kraft dinners and Gattuso instant noodles for instance :thumbdown. Anytime I had a bit of money in my pocket it was to go buy candies and chips, and french fries later when I was a teen. I've always been on the skinny side, so I was eating A LOT of all these foods without any restraints. I've always been a big eater compared to my peers. Had I had another metabolism, I would have been really overweight thats for sure.

I was watching this documentary about nutrition and immigrants recently, and they explain how fruits and vegetables are abundant and inexpensive in warm countries, so therefore consumption is very high. This is completly the opposite here. F n V are very expensive and transformed food is inexpensive. Cultural ingredients are more difficult to find,( although this situation has improved in the last 20 years as there are more immigrants who open specialized food stores.) So overall, many immigrants change their culinary habits when they arrive here, due to lack of affordable cultural products and fresh vegetals (they also complain taste is poor with imported vegetals) and with the abundance of low cost transformed/processed food. They also tend to eat a lot of meat product, because it is very affordable here compared to where they are from.

 

[Crohnick]

Re my post above from 3-12-2015 09:48 AM where I was wondering out loud if vaccination against DTaP or maybe other vaccine causes a cross-reaction.

Ran across this article exploring why a vaccine wasn't effective against HIV. They found that "polyreactive antibodies were produced by the body, recognizing other proteins common to bacteria, such as Escherichia coli, a naturally occurring part of the body’s intestinal microbiome."

Maybe this "polyreactive" phenomenon happens for other vaccines too, and then the body attacks naturally occurring bacteria in the gut. Dumb/bad luck?

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsreleases/2015/Pages/HVTN505.aspx

 

[Madhu]

My husband and I are from India. His CD symptoms started 8 months after he moved to USA. No genetic factor, we are vegetarians, so it has to be environmental. One thing that bothered me was - In India, we always boil the milk before consuming and we use buffalo's milk. Here its cow's milk and we didn't boil it. Just heated in microwave. If that's the reason he got Crohn's disease because of the MAP bacteria, I'm guilty as hell

 

[Lady Organic]

Hi aarthi,
dont feel guilty, its unlikely this only change in your husband's diet is responsible for his CD. I believe IBD are multi-factorial and genetics does play a part. It takes the proper soil and specific feeding in order to grow the bad germ.
Occidental style of living is associated with high prevalence of inflammatory chronic conditions and incidence of these conditions is increasing as well in the developping world in countries adopting the occidental lifestyle (food, stress, city pollution, sedentarity, indoor jobs/lack of sun, excess of sanitation or antibiotic use, etc...) Its difficult to pinpoint one element, I believe its a mix of different elements.

 

[xeridea]

And here's an interesting article about Ethiopian Jews that moved to Israel are now experiencing onset of IBD consistent with the general population numbers. What's interesting is that this is a virtually unknown disease in Ethiopia, and they are the first members of their family to get the disease. One conclusion this suggests is that IBD has less to do with genetics and more with either hygiene, antibiotics use, or vaccinations.

 

[Mr chicken]

Honestly Ds was dx at age 7
So with no family history
His genes were tested
Yep tons of marked for crohns
It has many reasons and many types
Basically you need the perfect storm and some are just lucky that way like my kiddo

 

[xeridea]

Basically you need the perfect storm and some are just lucky that way like my kiddo

There is that. I once heard that 5 out of 6 cases of cancer are just bad luck. Like you say, the perfect storm.