Antibiotics could be the cause of crohns??

[erinbeck]

I reading many articles that kids who have had antibiotics and I am talking a series of antibiotis, not a one time dose. have a huge increase in getting Crohns. My DS always had ear infections, three sets of tubes gives you an idea right? Well now IM thinking that was the cause. Any Drs given any info on this?
And if that could be the cause, figuring out the bacteria that is missing and replacing it wouldnt that cure the Crohns?

He was on Humira and it stopped working in May 2017, but didnt realize it stopped till July 2017. Then he goes in for Wisdom teeth removal and fo course gets put on antibiotics again.. an BAM that is when the increase in pain and all this started up again. is there a correlation--OF COURSE THERE IS!!!

 

[Maya142]

They have been studying this - the microbiome is a very hot topic right now. But they have tried fecal transplants in IBD - like you say, to introduce new bacteria from a healthy person, but they did not work well at all.

They do work for CDiff, which is an infection, but for IBD they failed.

For what it's worth, right now they believe many things cause Crohn's. Some part is genetic, some part could be an environmental trigger. Right now they just don't know what really causes it.

There are some kids (really babies) who are diagnosed so young that they have never had antibiotics and they still developed IBD.

Antibiotics can certainly cause flares though - that is well known. And they can cause CDiff, which then goes on to cause a flare.

 

[erinbeck]

I have read about Cdiff as well. Just throwing this out there regarding the babies, if the mom was in antibiotics any anytime during lregnamcy that would cross over to the baby as I have read.

Interesting thoughts tho. Do you have the studies or articles that you have read on this? I’m an info roomba. Lol

 

[Maya142]

I'm going to tag crohnsinct since she knows a lot about Crohn's research.

If you are interested, I would look on PubMed. There is a lot of info there. I think I read that it has been somewhat successful in some UC patients but less successful in Crohn's patients.

Any Future for Fecal Microbiota Transplantation as Treatment Strategy for Inflammatory Bowel Diseases?
Kump P1, Högenauer C.
Author information
Abstract
Fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT) is a novel therapeutic procedure aiming at restoring a normal intestinal microbiota by application of fecal microorganisms from a healthy subject into the gastrointestinal tract of a patient. FMT is the most effective treatment for recurrent Clostridium difficile infections (CDI). These infections also occur in patients with inflammatory bowel diseases (IBDs), where case series demonstrated a successful treatment of CDI by FMT in 83-92% of patients. The effect of FMT on the activity of IBD has mainly been investigated in ulcerative colitis (UC) patients, including 3 randomized controlled trials. So far, 2 randomized controlled trials showed a superiority of FMT compared to placebo in inducing remission in UC, while 1 study found no significant difference to placebo. The variation in response to FMT between these studies as well as in the uncontrolled trials might be explained by many differences in the way of FMT application, patient pretreatment and patient and donor selection. The data for the use of FMT in Crohn's disease and pouchitis are sparse; currently, no conclusion can be drawn regarding the effectiveness of FMT in these indications. It needs to be noted that cases of IBD activation after FMT have been reported. So far, FMT can only be recommended to be used for the treatment of concomitant CDI in IBD in clinical practice. For treating IBD irrespective of CDI, FMT should be only used in clinical trials. Current forms of FMT, especially protocols using repeated application, are very time and personnel consuming. Future trends are the use of defined stable microbiota preparations, in particular oral preparations, which will enable better and larger controlled trails for investigating FMT in IBD.

 

[crohnsinct]

Well, I have three kids. Two have Crohn's. Neither had antibiotics and one was exclusively breastfed, the other was mostly breastfed but got some formula. One got all her vaccines on time the other had them pulled apart and staggered schedule. Go figure!

There is a lot of research right now. Think GEM...genes, environment and micro biome. First you have the gene for it and it is a complex combination of environment and micro biome that will turn that gene on and cause Cohn's. They just really don't know right now. Food, our germaphobe society, antibiotics, vaccines, infections...the list goes on. They are also saying that IBD is going to have way more than two types (CD and UC). Once they can identify the types, they will know more about cause and be better able to tailor treatment.

I am out and about right now but will pull some of my bookmarks if I still have them (new computer:/).

 

[my little penguin]

Yep two kiddos here
One with ibd and one without
My constantly sick kiddo ear infections etc lots of abx
No ibd

Other kiddo who barely had any infections of any sort
(No abx at all till age 4 and even then nada
Was dx at age 7

We checked his genes
High risk for Crohns
No family history

There isn’t one reason
It’s many
They are working on figuring somethings out
But assume 30-50 years away at least

 

[erinbeck]

Prob stupid question but how do the test for the gene? Did you ask for that test?

 

[Tesscorm]

I have same situation as MLP... two kids, one with crohns, one without. The one without was constantly sick as a child... lots of infections... you name it and we had to deal with it. The other was rarely sick, I'm sure he had some antibiotics but not until older (ie no ear infections as a child, etc.) and any abx was rare... that's the one who developed crohns.

So many possibilities In our case, my son had injured his back, was taking lots of nsaids for months... I will always wonder if it was the use of nsaids that triggered (not caused) his crohns to develop. And in our family... not a very close link... grandmother's cousin has it. And, if it's environmental... she lives in southern Europe, lots of vit D, grew up on farm so no processed foods, etc...???

I agree with what's been said... lots of possible genetic causes, lots of environmental triggers with lifestyle exposures thrown in... the wrong combination, at the wrong time and crohns develops.

My son had taken nsaids before with never a problem but, perhaps at that time, while he was in the midst of puberty and a growth spurt, maybe the nsaids had a different impact... or maybe it was something else entirely. :ybatty:

I do think once they can identify more types of IBD, that will have a significant impact on future treatments and, maybe even, prevention. Right now, everyone is pretty much treated with the same few treatments... why don't they work for all, why such varied responses?? I do think there will be different types or sub-types eventually identified and that may answer some of the questions.

It's very frustrating...

 

[my little penguin]

Genetics
23&me through a drug company study
Emory has a panel as well

 

[thike1966]

Erinbeck,
I was on major antibiotics as a kid and many time more since. I was born with a heart condition that is now resolved. But as a kid, in the 1970's they thought antibiotics could not be over-prescribed. I got them every time I was ill, even when I got a cold.

The medical community is slowly starting to understand the dangers of too many antibiotics.

My nutritionist has me on 2 probiotics, Florostar and Renew Life 50 billion strains. They cost about $1 pill retail, but I can get them on Amazon for a better price.

I ran out and my shipment got either stolen or lost. After 4 days they don't work as well and I have noticed a difference, more gas pains and cramping. Based on what I read and heard from two GI doctors, it's possible the bad bacteria are no longer in check by the good bacteria. Our guts have 10 times the amount of cells than anywhere else in our bodies. I learned a lot reading the Biome Solution by Robynne Chutkan and confirming with my doctor and the doctor who leads my support group.

My support group is lead by a doctor who explained that the biome is like a city. In a good economy, there are a few bad guys and they are kept in check. But when the economy goes bad, criminals take over more and more. He said Chronies have a bad economy and that's why the bad bacteria are over whelming the gut. In addition current much stronger antibiotics of today can kill the good guys and the bad guys can be more resistant. Typical people can get the biome recharged and helped with what they eat, yogurt, sauerkraut, kimchi, miso all fermented with good guy bacteria, as long as they are not cooked. That is why when making miso soup, you add the miso at the end when the pot is off the burner. As well, the good bacteria can usually come back. But we are not so lucky.

It is interesting that in the developing world where they are not as clean, sanitized and medicated as we are. Their biomes are much more diverse and Crohn's occurs at a much much lower rate. Of course we don't want to trade places, and there is still much to learn. These places tend to have more sunshine and we know vitamin D is a factor too.

Florostar can withstand antibiotics, so it's a good option. My nutritionist works in my doctor's office and he approves of this route.

I hope you hope you find some answers that work for you. This is such a unique syndrome as every person is affected differently and no one treatment works for us all.

All my best to you and your son.

Michael

 

[Mishoga]

Yes, I agree. I don’t know why they don’t have a definitive link established.
My son was very sick from 3-8 months old. Constantly on antibiotics that whole time. Wasn’t until we took him to pediatric pulmonologist that we cleared up the issue with a 30 day run of augmentin. But that was the beginning of 5 years of constant ear infections and antibiotics.
I’m convinced antibiotics strip their intestines of good flora leaving them vulnerable, contributing to the formation of an IBD