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So my son (12 yrs. old) was diagnosed in November with Crohns in the small intestine. He did 6 weeks of Pred. and Pentasa and started enteral nutrition. His numbers have consistently gone down and has had no issues with abdominal pain since Dec. 2011. Early this morning (about 5 am) he woke up a bit nauseous he went back to sleep and then woke up about 7am with severe abdominal pain (according to him a 7-8 on a scale of 1-10). While I was out running an errand, he vomited and the pain slowly got better. About an hour ago, he drank one of his Peptide Shakes and is now complaining of pain. I called the doctor earlier and she said it may be "a kid thing...just a stomach ache", but this is the first bump in the road and I just don't know what is a "Normal bellyache" and what is a potential Crohn's emergency. He has no fever and hasn't vomited since this morning. He has had Juven, water, and chicken broth only today.
I feel panicked and I don't know what to do. He hasn't had a bowel movement all day and he doesn't remember having one yesterday...

AHHHH!!!
 
He hasn't had a bowel movement all day and he doesn't remember having one yesterday...



Fist let me say Hi and welcome!
I'm so sorrow to hear about your son's first bump in the road.
My little farm girl is 3 and is a much of a hand full as she is cute.:ybiggrin:
We are still trying to get a dx for her, so an expert I am not.
However, him not have a BM is a strong clue that this might not be a "kid thing".
Were you able to fill the doctor in on this or did you find out after the fact?
I know my Grace gets those kind of pain and has vomited when she's constipated.
It is something to keep an eye on.
I do know that these kids DO seem to catch more viruses than most kids. Well at least my Grace does.
But still, for piece of mind you might want to consider calling his doc if his symptoms persist. More wonderful parents will be along to help you further.

Welcome again to the forum,
Farmwife
 
Hi Farmwife,
Thanks for your reply! My gut tells me it isn't a "kid thing", but I'm not convinced it is a full-blow flare. He is usually pretty regular (once a day), but on occasion will skip a day and I'm not sure if he went yesterday. I think the fact that his pain was getting better, lead my doctor to believe that it wasn't "serious" enough to admit him. I think I just hate that he's in pain/uncomfortable and I'm not sure how long I am supposed to let him go...

It's just so hard to deal with the uncertainty...
 
Well in my case, I call and ask. I'm the kind that can drive myself CRAZY asking questions to myself. Finally I just have decided to call and ask anyway.
I figured they get paid, and well I might say, that I deserver an answer.
I'm with you, I hate the uncertain.
I hope all goes well through the night. Keep us posted.
 
If it was me I think I would call them or take him to the ER, I know that I have gotten constipated a few times over the years before they found out that I have Chron's and it hurts a lot.
I know my mom had to take me to the ER a few times when I was a little kid and they always just said I was just constipated and gave me something for that and it did make me feel better.
Hope he getts better, it's no fun being in pain.
 
Hi Jackman and :welcome:

I'm so sorry to hear about your boy and hope that is just one off and all will return to normal!

I have been in the sort situation you have with both of my children and it surely sends ya scurrying! :eek2: Just for future reference one of the things I would do when you next speak with the doctor is have him/her provide you with a list of symptoms that clarify what you need to report him/her immediately, which can wait until to your next scheduled appointment, and which signify an emergency.

In our case my daughter did indeed have an emergency x2 and how it panned out was increasing vomiting, it did not abate, escalating pain that could not be resolved with pain management, hot packs, massage and so on and fever. I took her to the ER.

My son when in early diagnosis also had two emergencies that presented as escalating pain not relieved with intervention, vomiting but no fever. Both times I took him to the ER.
Whilst in remission, he had an episode of flank pain that came and went, sporadic vomiting, loss of appetite, no fever. I did watch him very closely (it was a weekend) and then took him to the GP on the Monday. He ran various tests which returned normal results and the episode resolved with no further issue.

Of course this is just my experience and it is hard to advise when you can't see the person but from my own experience I was never left guessing when I needed to head to the ER. I could see the unending pain etched on their face and knew there was nothing I could do for them.

My advice would always be that if you are in any doubt at all err to caution and have him seen to at the ER.

Good luck and well wishes headed your way!

Dusty. xxx
 
The first time Stephen felt ab pain and then told he hadn't had a BM in a day or two completely panicked me! Especially as he told me on the way to the arena for the first game at an out of town tournament! :lol:

I was worried about obstruction, had so little experience with Crohns, had no idea if we should be heading to Emergency, etc.!! I think I was asking him if he felt 'okay' about every 5 minutes! :blush: Not sure if she remembers but, Dusty calmed me down and got me through the next 36 hours! :worthy:

If he is still constipated, try to give him a bit of prune juice. That evening of 'my panic', in addition to giving Stephen prune juice, I also gave him some yoghurt and a bit of coffee (which he doesn't drink but someone told me this might help as well! :)) Between that night and the next morning, Stephen went 3 times! and he felt much better. I don't know what caused Stephen's pain and constipation that time, don't know if it was crohns-related, etc.

I would keep his diet to very easily digested foods - broth, a bit of toast, etc. today.

Having said all this though, if your instinct is telling you he is not well, then I would call the doctor or go to emergency.

:ghug:
 
Thanks Everyone!

He vomited a second time since 9am this morning...it's now 8:00pm) and now says he feels so much better...(some sign of last nights Sparerib dinner)....Color is back to normal and very mild, intermitent pain. He is back up and playing his video games which he hasn't played all day. Spoke to his doc who thinks it sounds like a bug. She suggested I take him to the ER if pain returns, fever develops, and or vomiting continues tomorrow with no BM. Keep your fingers crossed over night!

Thanks for all your support. I pray they find a cure soon, or at least some treatment that doesn't scare the heck out of me! I need a glass of wine!
 
I surely do remember it Tess! :lol: And how well you handled it all! :hug:

Dusty. xxx
 
Phew! I hope all continues to settle for your son...:)...and everything is crossed! Not just fingers!

Dusty.
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Greetings. Sorry you have to be here but you are in good company, even if I do say so myself.

I remember those days of panic! You have my sympathies. The doctors instructions were vague, your kid is hurting/vomiting/bleeding, you don't want to do the "wrong" thing...

I can share with you what we have learned from experience and from medical advice we've gotten but please understand you always need to check things out with his doctor or NP if possible. When in doubt, call - even if it's the middle of the night. It's OK - you're new to all this and even seasoned parents are uncertain about this stuff most of the time. Better a call to GI and trip to ER that's unneeded than you end up with a true medical emergency that requires 911. If you have no or poor insurance then you are in a really tough place when faced with these decisions. I would make sure your GI knows this and remind them when they start telling you to go to ER so they can take that into account.

I can tell you the short answer based on what you've shared.

1. If the pain is so bad he can't stand up straight or walk or talk you go to ER
2. If he has some belly pain, diarrhea and is vomiting you call ped GI if he is unable to keep any fluids down and you have no reason to suspect a viral illness
3. If he has bad belly pain, he is not passing any gas, has definitely not passed any stool for 2 days and is vomiting you definitely call ped GI.

You are going to spend a lot of time biting your nails and playing the "watchful waiting" game. I personally hate that game but it really is true that only time will answer some questions.

Now for the really long version.

Evaluating belly pain is tricky. It can be referred pain from another part of the gut, it can come and go, it can mean appendicitis not IBD, it can just be really bad gas. For my son, pain from constipation is usually along his lower ribcage, presumably because his transverse colon is getting stretched by all the stool in it.

What I learned to do is to look at both his behavior/signs and what he is saying/symptoms.

The difference between signs and symptoms is that the first can be objectively measured or observed. A 102 fever that has been taken with a thermometer is a sign. Complaints about feeling feverish are symptoms - subjective things that the patient reports but that cannot necessarily be measured by someone else. When it comes to pain, signs include increased BP, heart rate and breathing. Symptoms are the patient's description of severity, location and character. So you want to look at signs as a way of helping you to evaluate the symptoms. When you talk to the doctor on the phone they are more focused on signs than symptoms - something that may be helpful to you when talking with them.

Keep in mind that you will almost certainly NEVER see these signs/symptoms OK? So take deep breaths. And do NOT tell your kid this stuff.

You probably need to go to ER if he is having pain severe enough that he cannot stand upright or walk and it does not pass very quickly or is getting worse. If he is in so much pain that he cannot talk, move or respond to anything but the pain then you call 911.

Now my 16 year old can get gas so bad he has that kind of pain so we don't necessarily jump in the car and run to ER when that happens. But that's because he has several years experience to draw on and is older now and is a pretty good judge of when he needs to go to ER and when it's just gas. When he was 11 we called ped gi and headed for ER when he had pain that bad. Sometimes it was gone by the time we got to ER at which point we usually turned around and went home. If it wasn't then we went in and they did their thing depending on his presentation in ER.​

Vomiting bile (green stuff that isn't food) or coffee grounds (blood) should signal a trip to ER in my opinion. Vomiting bile is almost certainly going to be accompanied by severe pain because this is probably an obstruction. Coffee grounds merits a call to ped GI who will probably send you to ER.

Vomiting bright red blood = call 911

Passing large clots or lots of clots in his stool is call to ped GI and almost certainly going to ER. By large I mean the size of small marbles. Lots of clots (not liquid blood but clots) even if they're small isn't good.

Guarding - this refers to automatic or unconscious protection of his belly when he moves or when someone gets too close or he might bump into something.

Severe, unremitting diarrhea, especially if it smells bad merits an immediate call to ped GI and may end up in ER. If he has more than 10 stools in 3 hours you go to ER.

If he has a fever (100.5 or higher), complaining of belly pain with signs that he is in pain, and just seems sick to you - doesn't laugh, play, etc. - then I would definitely call ped gi unless it's clear that there's a bug going through the family and you believe that's what's going on. In that case, wait and see is probably what I would do but it would depend on how bad it was.

A fever of 103 or higher always merits a call to pediatrician or ped GI when it's an IBDer.

If they're on prednisone or immune suppresants/biologics then you call for temps over 100.5 that occur more than twice in 12 hours or for fevers over 101.5 once in 12 hours.

Any significant change in signs/symptoms usually warrants a call to ped GI but not necessarily outside of business hours. If he's always had D and now hasn't pooped for 3 days - call. If he's always had C and has persistent frequent D - call. If he's never had bloody stools and he has one - call. of those 3 examples, whether you call outside business hours depends on additional information - if he's in pain, how bad it is, if he's also vomiting, how much blood. The more signs he has that he's in distress/sick or if the problem is severe I will likely call in the middle of the night.

Ok I am going to switch topics now.

I hate to break it to you but in six years of being on pediatric IBD boards/forums I have only known a couple kids who have managed to stay in some kind of remission using dietary interventions alone. More often dietary interventions are combined with medication and the dietary intervention may allow use of 6-MP or Methotrexate instead of biologics.

I personally believe that our kids need meds - for CDers immune modulating/suppressing meds - to achieve and stay in remission. It is hard to come to grips with this when you understand the possible long term consequences of using these meds. But failing to keep CD or UC in remission carries it's own cost and not only destroys QOL but can result in permanent damage to the body that will require surgery and may result in severe disability, even death, in the future.

If you child has moderate to severe disease, when it comes to meds you will probably find yourself choosing between the known - damage to your child's body from uncontrolled IBD, loss of QOL, emotional costs - and the unknown risks of cancer or other problems in the future. Some parents don't really have a choice - their child is so sick that it is biologics or death. I remember being so scared, so sure I would never put my child on biologics. While I may have been right to be scared, getting my son into remission trumped all the possible future problems since not treating his CD could have killed him much more quickly.

If you look back 20 or so years - before 6-MP started being used to treat CD - your perspective may shift. Before that there were no options but prednisone, surgery and diet. The rates of surgery were much higher. The rates of disability were sky high. The likelihood of death from complications/surgery was much greater. Life span was shorter for IBDers by as much as 20 years.

I don't think we want to go back to that. I am not saying you are not right to be scared. I am just saying that you may not have the luxury of a choice.

Hang in there. Somehow it will all work out.
 
Wow, I hope he continue to improve.
Remember, YOU do what you know works for your son.
Keep us update!

Farmwife
 
Patricia56,

Thank you for your reply. Everything you wrote was so helpful, as I am quickly realizing sooo many posts are!

I know we are in this for the long stretch and am trying to stay open to whatever comes our son's way. I wish diet was the only treatment, but I know eventually we'll need to move on and couple it with something else. Right now he is on Pentasa, Iron w/Vitamin C, a multi enzyme, and VSL #3. His inflammation has been lower every time we test him. So while I know TNF and Biologics are most likely in his future, right now we hope he continues to do well with minimally risky medications and nutrition.

We have Rifaximin on hold in the cabinet as the next step!

He is sleeping now and at our last conversation was without any pain, just exhausted. I am optimistic that he'll be better tomorrow morning, but you never know...It's not like I was expecting the pain this morning. I think that is the worst part!

Thanks all for listening,
Jackman,
 
So Jax woke up this morning bright eyed and starving! No pain-thank god-and feeling 100% better...thanks for all the replies!!! See you soon I'm sure!
 
Jackman, popping in quickly while on vacation and so glad your son is feeling better. I like Tesscorm have so been there before...glad you found your way here as these parents have talked me off the ledge a few times. This disease thrusts you into such a foreign word and the kids are all so different that it is virtually impossible to be prepared for every scenario and to have this forum as a resource is invaluable.
 
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