Cows Milk Vs Mothers' Milk

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Kev

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Here's a thought (and yes, it happens so rarely that Ripley's called to verify it).
Has anyone taken/conducted a poll amongst the Parents of Children with IBD to see how many were bottle babies vs nursed? And, if nursed, to what age. The reason I toss this out there is that I'm alarmed by the (at least to my minds eye) increase in the number of very young children that are getting this disease. One prevalent theory (17 studies, but nothing definitive) targets MAP from beef/dairy cattle with Johnes disease as the potential culprit behind IBD. I haven't seen too many 2 year olds chowing down on a rare, juicy T-bone, so I'm guessing that red meat isn't how they 'possibly' contracted MAP, but what about cows milk? I'm wondering if there is a possible correlation in numbers that might pop out if we conducted a survey along those lines. Anyone intrigued? Or am I totally off the wall? Mind you, the one thing that goes without saying, so I'll say it here... is that, if a correlation did appear, I hope parents wouldn't go blaming themselves. The best/brightest scientific minds have yet to pinpoint what causes Crohns. And, if interesting numbers do pop up, that doesn't mean we're onto a full blown eureka moment. I raised kids, I will always remain a parent, I did the best I could with the info I had at the time.. like we all do. I couldn't help it if at various points in the process the 'experts' did a complete 180 on what is the best... Well, the point needs no further discussion. Anyone want a poll?
 
Hi Kev,

Interesting topic! I breastfed my son for 7 months. After that he went to formula until the ped told us we could switch to cow's milk. I can't remember what age that was. He has always loved his milk!
 
Danny (undiagnosed) was breast-fed for 3 months, then formula (which does have milk in it), and switched to whole milk at 1 year old. Danny loved milk .. and drank about 6 glasses a day. When he was first ill and we did allergy testing, it showed he was extremely allergic to cow's milk and cassein. We have since avoided all dairy. I am always curious about MAP since reading about it (after having some response to the skin PPD test, but negative to the regular TB quantiferen gold test, which would mean that my son was exposed to some mycobacterium) Doctors do not seem to test for it though.
 
Both of my children were breastfed. There is only 17 months between them and Sarah started refusing the breast at 1 year old. I often wonder if it was my hormones that turned her off the breast milk. Matt was breast fed to 2 years old.

Once off the breast I did not put either of my children onto cows milk as a feed so they only received it via cereal etc.

Neither were cow's milk drinkers as they grew either, they just didn't look for it or particularly like it. I personally don't like it either and did not tolerate it as a child.

Dusty. :)
 
My son would not breastfeed. I tried everything to get him to do it and had no success. I pumped for 6 weeks but could not produce enough to feed him solely on breast milk so he received a combination of both formula and breast milk for 6 weeks and then just formula from there on out. Interesting that my daughter, who is 15 months younger, breast fed like a champion with no problems at all.

Both my kids started on cow's milk at 1 year of age and both have been, and still are, big milk drinkers.

Until I have hard proof that not breastfeeding my son caused an increased risk of him getting IBD I refuse to entertain such thoughts. Too much guilt...
 
Same here, Twiggy - Stephen would not breastfeed (but daughter did), he also had a combination of breastmilk and formula for 4-5 weeks and then just formula. Started on cow's milk (whole) at 1 year.

Stephen always drank lots of milk and still does.
 
All three of my children were strictly formula fed until around 1 year. None of them tolerated cow's milk very well after tho; and my middle son had a milk protein and soy allergy so he was quite tricky.

Dusty...:( I wish that post from the previous poll were still true !
 
no 1 child: breastfed only three weeks, then milk based formula to six mos, then straight cow's milk which he refused after age 2.
Age 29 healthy as any ox.

no 2: breastfed exclusively five mos, milk based formula to seven mos then to cow's milk. Big dairy consumer rest of her childhood. Now age 28 and vegan and healthy as her older brother.

no 3 VIOLET: breastfed exclusively seven mos, then to cow's milk/milk based formula combo. Only kid with any sort of health issues.

no 4: breastfed exclusively three mos, added milk based formula at three mos, weaned from breast eight mos and put on straight cow's milk. This kid is so healthy you couldn't kill her with an axe. Goes years without even a cold, even when all around her are sick as dogs.
 
Breastfed #1 until 15 months. He had milk soy protein intolerance . Drank cows milk from then on but doesn't like it. He will see the GI in May suspected crohn's.

# 2 has crohn's and was Breastfed to 20 months. He nor I had any dairy in our diets at all during that time. His gut started acting up at two weeks old.
He drank a ton of cow's milk from age two on.
 
I know alot of people are going to read and reread what I am fixing to say :yfaint:. I dont do alot to what people think is normal, but you what I am okay with that :thumleft:

Kota strickly breastfed until he was a year old. Then continued to nurse 5-7 times a day until he was 3. From age 3-5 he nursed when he got up in the morning and to sleep at night. And of course if he got hurt or wasnt feeling good, he would nurse more. Then from age 6-7 he nursed at night before bed. I am not even sure if he really got anything at that point. It was more for comfort and security. Because he would only be at the breast for a couple of minutes and he would be asleep :wub:. Ko has never liked cows milk and has maybe had 1 gallon his whole life.

Kota was the first of my 3 children to nurse.

Becca is 22 now. She had formula until she was a year old. After a year she drank only a little bit of cows milk. Drinks more now then she did when she was younger. She is healthy

Skyler is 17. He had formula until he was a year old and then went to cows milk. He loved cows milk. I dont think I have ever seen a child that liked cows milk as much as he did. Now he doesnt drink milk unless he is puttin it on cereal. He is healthy but did have alot of stomach issues when he was 4 months -5 years old.
 
Until I have hard proof that not breastfeeding my son caused an increased risk of him getting IBD I refuse to entertain such thoughts. Too much guilt...
Click to expand...

Awwww Twiggy...:hug:...I personally think it is something you will never need to feel guilty about.

I will go out on a limb here and say one of my pet peeves in life is the breast feeding nazi's. I abhor the way they make mother's feel when they don't have the ability to breast feed their baby but the fact of the matter is not every baby will take to the breast for whatever reason. I also believe that if a mother chooses not to breast feed then she is answerable to no one for it.

Off the soap box now. :ybiggrin:

Dusty. xxx
 
Hugs Twiggy
No matter how you look at it
It is still food which even if you did nurse would still have the proteins from the food you ate in it. Trust me those pesky proteins did a number on my LO gut.
Which is why I go by the theory you do the best you can and don't worry about the latest study since sure enough there will be another one disproving it soon enough and blaming something.
 
Littlebitw as long as it works for you. And your family- :) dd nursed exclusively until 9 months, when I began to supplement with a bit of formula as my supply dwindled. She weaned at 13 months. Ds sshe loves milk! Ds self weaned at 9 mos and doesn't care much for milk. He has never hadformula and doesn't have ibd.
 
I think it is sometimes totally out of the mother and babies hands if they get to breastfeed. It doesnt work for everyone. I could never look down on anyone for not nursing. Or think well if you would have nursed your baby they wouldnt be sick. No one should ever feel guilty that they couldnt nurse. But I know its easy to have lots of what ifs running through your head. One could be Would my baby be sick if I would have nursed. Yes your baby could and would probably still be sick if you would have nursed. Heck I did nurse Ko out of the norm and he is still a sick little boy. My nursing relationship was the best and I feel very blessed to have had it BUT NO it didnt keep my Ko from being sick.

Sorry for the ramble
 
Yikes LbM! :eek2:

I hope my post isn't misconstrued as a dig at you! Because it certainly isn't! Just one of those unfortunate things where you posted when I was writing mine. :yfaint:

Dusty. xxx
 
No Dusty I didnt take it that way at all. I still :heart: you and think you are great..
I am one that totally believes you do what works for you and your family. Yes I think breastfeeding is great and I would try an breastfeed if I ever had another baby but I would never look down on someone for not doing it. I would encourage and of course help anyone that might need help with it but not force it down anyones throat or make them feel bad for not doing it. Did that make sense?
 
All three of my daughters were breastfeed. Sarah for the shortest time of 9 months, interestly no doctor was willing to tell me to consider stopping breastfeeding even when I was asking there opinion and was losing weight rapidly and down to 48 kgs and expecting second child.
 
On a similar note, I had a friend (who is a HUGE bfing advocate) ask me if I considered relactating to provide bm for Izz. (I was considering EN at the time and she wondered "What better perfect food?") It wasn't something that would work for me at the time but she had a friend that said it helped her sons digestive problems.
I am glad that we have the education that we have today regarding breastfeeding-that it CAN be hard but there is a ton of help out there for those who are willing to accept it. It wasn't like that when *I* was a baby-and I am thankful for my bfing friends that helped me through it. :))
 
Interesting question. And I wonder all the time if there isn't something else in common for all these kids. What dish/laundry detergent do you use? Is your water flouridated? what pesticides are used on school grounds? computer monitor radiation? It goes on and on! Too many individual and variable factors, I think, and no smoking guns.

I have one Crohn's kid and one non-Crohn's kid. They were both breastfed exclusive for 2 months, then combo breast/formula for another 4 months, then formula only til milk at 1 year. They both love milk. The formula was milk based, but different brands (for some reason - healthy one on Enfamil, Crohn's one on Similac). Milk these days comes from cows on growth hormones. Something else to chew on, I drank milk while breastfeeding...

Water supply for each their first year also totally different- 1st one born in Maryland, 2nd (Crohn's) in California. Healthy one prefers salt, Crohn's one has a huge sweet tooth. Ultimately? genes I guess....
 
Let me jump in here with this. Neither myself nor my 4 siblings were breast fed (adopted). We all were raised on cows milk (literally gallons of it, my uncle had a dairy farm). We all drank the same water, breathed the same air, went to the same schools, churches, etc.. I develop Crohns. 1 sister developed MS. Yet, my birth mother has Crohns, and 4 of 5 of my half/siblings have Crohns. On another thread, discussing how things like MAP might be spread/transferred... thing of it is... IF everyone who was exposed to MAP (for example) were certain to develop Crohn's, more people would have it. In a perfect world, people who regulate milk and dairy industry would quarantine all animals with Johnes. Wonder what that would do to the incidence of it? Or, at the very least... change the way milk is pasteurized. Or at least go public with the info that this cow product MAY contain MAP, and let the buyer beware. (Whether or not MAP causes Crohns is one thing, but that MAP meat/dairy product is let into our food chain is totally another. You don't see that disclaimer when they are advertising 'it does a body good' or 'natures nearly perfect food'.)... But, I've slipped off onto a totally separate tangent.

My son's started on the breast (not mine), but they switched to cow's milk. When I think about all the milk they consumed (not to mention how much it cost... uncle had retired).. only to occasionally wonder if MAYBE it will turn into some deadly time delay fuse... ah, well.. the grey hairs in the photo come naturally. I should have known that there would be no quick and simple eureka. But, I thought it was worth tossing out there.
 
Lucy wasnt breastfed at all. She was on 'comfort formula' forumal specailly designed for pucky babies until she was one and she hasn't every had cows milk as she absolutely hates it. Her dairy is mainly from yogurt and cheese.
polly
 
Son #1 - Nursed for 22 months. Introduced formula (8 oz/day) around 9 months to help while I away. Was never a fan of cows milk but ate everything under the sun, especially raw veggies, until he was diagnosed with Crohn's April 2010. 50% in height/50% weight

Son #2 - Nursed for 24 months. Introduced formula around 2 weeks old when he ended up sick and had to stay in the hospital - the continued to nurse. Went on cows milk at age 1 and has drank GALLONS a week ever since. 95% in height/50% weight.

Son #3 (here you go LbM) - Will be 3 next week and we are still going strong :) Lactose intolerant so on Lactaid for milk he drinks when he wants. 95% in height/95% weight.
 
I didn't become symptomatic till I'd been around for 4 decades, and since there is no way of knowing what I was exposed to and when; searching for the 'X' factor that caused my Crohn's is akin to searching for a miniscule needle in a giagantic haystack. However, in the alarming increase in the incidence of Crohns in increasingly younger children (at least that's my general conception/mis-conception... when I first started hanging out here 5-6 years ago, the number of people reporting they'd become ill at that tender an age seemed far smaller), well, I thought there might be opportunity to find a glimmer of good news amongst the tragedy. Kids that young just haven't had the time.. to have been exposed to as many possible culprits. Thought that we might find a common denominator. I still think it might be worth exploring, just don't know 'how to'.
 
Liam (undiagnosed) now 10 could not tolerate breast milk, I persisted with breast feeing for six weeks (which in hindsight seems crazy) I blame it on the fact that I was a huge believer in breast feeding and really didn't want to bottle feed him. By that stage he was no longer simply not growing but loosing weight at an alarming rate and I had to abandon the idea. He was put on a soy based formula which his body was able to digest after which he started to grow normally.
 
I love this thread! Interesting thing, when Caitlyn was diagnosed my baby was six weeks old. The GI doctor told me to nurse the baby as long as possible. From three months old my little one started having stomach issues. She is now four years old and we listened to the advice to keep nursing. At this point the doctor is saying all her labs and fecal calprotectin is normal so we will just keep an eye her. I keep hoping the prolonged nursing will help prevent her from getting sick. Whenever people comment why are you still nursing I can at least tell them the doctor said to! ( maybe I should get a doctors note LOL)
 
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Too funny ...
I got the LOOK because I nursed DS until 19 months _
Again because we were also told to nurse as long as possible
But silly us - I stopped since he was found not to be allergic to milk at 19 months
Things went downhill after that
 
I am currently tandem nursing my 4YO (dx with IBD at 2 YO) and 8 month old (no known issues). Although his GI doc knew he was still nursing at the time of diagnosis and encouraged it, she looked rather shocked when I mentioned it at his last appointment a few months ago! Because he has issues with dairy that means I avoid it too. His labs all remain normal and he presents very well clinically, except for an elevated fecal calprotectin. Doing one more round of labs in February to see if the levels are trending down, then will likely do scopes. I am increasingly nervous of the silent aspect of this disease. Still somewhat in denial that he won't just "grow out of it".
 
I'm glad your boy is doing well.:thumright:
The "just grow out of it" is something I still dream of.:rosette1:
 
kimmidwife said:
I love this thread! Interesting thing, when Caitlyn was diagnosed my baby was six weeks old. The GI doctor told me to nurse the baby as long as possible. From three months old my little one started having stomach issues. She is now four years old and we listened to the advice to keep nursing. At this point the doctor is saying all her labs and fecal calprotectin is normal so we will just keep an eye her. I keep hoping the prolonged nursing will help prevent her from getting sick. Whenever people comment why are you still nursing I can at least tell them the doctor said to! ( maybe I should get a doctors note LOL)
Click to expand...


My youngest will 4 the end of April and we are still going strong! :D
 
All four of our kids were breast-fed until 1. I do believe there is a connection with the transition to cow milk, and no, I don't think a baby has to be fed cow milk as a primary source of nutrition for it to make an impact.

Our oldest has Crohn's, diagnosed at age 6. He was a voracious nurser, he would go on all-night marathon sessions with my wife, leading her to tears one night. First child, what does one do? For him, nursing was merely a "delay" from cow milk exposure, a substance that takes many forms, and is in a whole bunch of stuff we eat--aside from traditional milk-based products.

Anyway, once on cow milk, our oldest took to it like nursing. He would wake up in the middle of the night screaming for a bottle!! And it wasn't like he didn't eat any solid food, his solid food intake was that of his milk intake: A LOT!! Needless to say, he was a big toddler, way off the charts in height and weight until age 6. Interestingly, our son sort of quit milk, even on cereal, at around age 4.

Now after having the advantage of fathering 3 other awesome kids, I can make comparisons, and one thing I've noticed is that our oldest was an outlier in many ways, one way obviously due to his *early* love for milk. Another difference between he and his siblings is that he developed chronic EAR INFECTIONS once off the breast. Again, nursing delayed cow milk exposure.

Some claim nursing prevents ear infections as well as a host of other things, no it doesn't, it just delays cow milk exposure, however great that exposure is, and delays the onset of mucus etc. Mucus is usually associated with milk and milk products i.e. "drink lots of clear fluids" when you're sick...

I say all this about milk because the cow milk exposure, in retrospect, exacerbated our son's colds. Unlike his siblings, he was in childcare 5 days/week for 3 years. He would get sick, A LOT!!! Continued milk exposure, as I now know, made his colds worse, and contributed to his ear infections. These infections were treated with antibiotics, continually, irresponsibly, which was VERY commonplace 10 years ago. Probably isn't very uncommon today either...

Anyway, the exposure to antibiotics no doubt trashed our son's gut flora, which we found very low in 2010, the year he was diagnosed with Crohn's. Prior to this, for two years, John battled STREP and SCARLET FEVER, usually with no fever or sore throat!

The thinking is that the poor state of health he was in, although he appeared otherwise, after going on cow milk, after having the ear infections, after the ear tubes; then progressed into things like Strep and finally had it's way in the form of Crohn's.

Our other kids have never had Strep, let alone Scarlet Fever, even when exposed to our oldest. He was the only one to have reoccurring ear infections, for him, starting the month after weaning. He's the only one who was in childcare as well. John had more ear infections in 6 months than his other three siblings combined. Our 3rd has had 1 infection, and he's almost 6. Our 2yo hasn't had one. Our 2nd didn't get ear infections until 3yo and we treated those with saline, as advised by our German pediatricians. After infection #3, they recommended an ENT, and he put in tubes right away.

I know, it's hard to digest, but John is now on the Paleo Diet and simply thriving. Look at the chart I put together and YOU decide if milk has played a role in his Crohn's. Note that he's been on 10mg MTX and 100mg Azathioprine since November 14, 2011 through today. Also, note the yellow and red areas, watch the drop in calprotectin when GF--then watch the drop when Paleo--the highest scores are HALVED and then HALVED again!! BTW, since he quit grains, sugar, milk, etc. he's GAINED 25lbs and grew 2".

I don't view milk and grains as causes necessarily, I see them as contributory. They set the table so-to-speak, with milk being the primary culprit. Then I think it is a matter of cross-reactivity, which explains the success while gluten-free. Indeed, casein and gluten are supposedly close, molecularly... Oddly enough, I look at things like Modulen, CIBreakfast, etc. all things recommended for Crohnies, that I believe only make some Crohnies sicker. Maybe not all, but definitely some. My son is one of them, I am convinced!
 

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The Crohn's gods are laughing at us again...look at the forum trying to figure IT out. I HATE the mystery of this whole disease. But just for fun:

Oldest daughter bottle fed milk based formula from the minute she was born..sorry I didn't even try. She is my healthiest child.

Crohnie in the middle: Half and half but switched very early to non cow milk formula as they suspected an allergy. I also came off all milk products.

Youngest: exclusively breast fed no cows milk other than what she got from me until 3 years old. Vitaligo (Auto immune disease) and we are getting a fecal calprotectin test this week as constant stomach aches, little weight loss, vomiting and bloody bm's.

I am giving the Crohns gods my one finger salute!
 
Kev said:
Let me jump in here with this. Neither myself nor my 4 siblings were breast fed (adopted). We all were raised on cows milk (literally gallons of it, my uncle had a dairy farm). We all drank the same water, breathed the same air, went to the same schools, churches, etc.. I develop Crohns. 1 sister developed MS. Yet, my birth mother has Crohns, and 4 of 5 of my half/siblings have Crohns. On another thread, discussing how things like MAP might be spread/transferred... thing of it is... IF everyone who was exposed to MAP (for example) were certain to develop Crohn's, more people would have it. In a perfect world, people who regulate milk and dairy industry would quarantine all animals with Johnes. Wonder what that would do to the incidence of it? Or, at the very least... change the way milk is pasteurized. Or at least go public with the info that this cow product MAY contain MAP, and let the buyer beware. (Whether or not MAP causes Crohns is one thing, but that MAP meat/dairy product is let into our food chain is totally another. You don't see that disclaimer when they are advertising 'it does a body good' or 'natures nearly perfect food'.)... But, I've slipped off onto a totally separate tangent.

My son's started on the breast (not mine), but they switched to cow's milk. When I think about all the milk they consumed (not to mention how much it cost... uncle had retired).. only to occasionally wonder if MAYBE it will turn into some deadly time delay fuse... ah, well.. the grey hairs in the photo come naturally. I should have known that there would be no quick and simple eureka. But, I thought it was worth tossing out there.
Click to expand...

Cows milk can lead to problems if introduced early, but doesn't have to. Mainly a false immune response. Mother's milk has immune system items in it for the body to learn, so it is probably more important than we think. But to date, there is no connection that I know of. I was fed with an eyedropper, pumping the milk and then feeding it to me, so I got some and still have a messed up immune system. I think somebody just pee'd in the gene pool. I am also the only one with issues. However, there are other family members that have suffered with similar problems, they are now dead so I can't ask what symptoms they started with and how it progressed.

Question for you, did your sister with MS eat dirt at any stage of her life? There are some nasty bugs I was reading about, they cross membrane barriers and remain dormant in the brain on nerves or something, then when you are weakened, or they are somehow active, they do damage. I hear they are blaming some forms of MS on this now. I don't know if they can kill them, but recognizing another bug is the start of knowing how to kill it.

I think we have something similar going on in many falsely diagnosed patients. Many bugs and other issues can reproduce all the symptoms of Crohn's, IBD, UC, so I really have issues with the quick way doctors are dismissing every test and throwing drugs without checking all the facts. We should create a checklist for patients to take to the doctor... hmmmm.
 
durwardian said:
Many bugs and other issues can reproduce all the symptoms of Crohn's, IBD, UC, so I really have issues with the quick way doctors are dismissing every test and throwing drugs without checking all the facts. We should create a checklist for patients to take to the doctor... hmmmm.
Click to expand...

Agree 1000% with you. Our son was "cleared" on both gluten and milk, wheat, everything else you can imagine, multiple times, even with two rounds of biopsies spanning 2 years and 4 scopes.

Yet, when I give the big "one finger salute" to the Dr. and remove gluten and milk on my own--the Calprotectin drops like a stone!!!! Grant it, we're still using AZA and MTX, but the turnaround was immediate and DRASTIC. Now we are seeing it as sustainable. But those "tests" say otherwise and THAT's what the Dr. goes by...

Many doctors, maybe most, have about as much knowledge about nutrition as I do. Remember that. I'm no expert btw. I just keep ridiculous notes and data though. I've looked at the overwhelming majority of our son's poop over the past 4 years as well. He doesn't eat it unless I keep tabs on it. I do my HW on him.

The Drs. might also tell you, as our specialist did, that all tests are notoriously inaccurate. In fact, he even deems scope procedures inaccurate, noting that most people don't realize the limitations of the equipment and the environment. Your gut, for example, needs to be 100% clean. He claims that most aren't. He's shown me pics and well, he's right.

The one thing he does depend on is the calprotectin stool test. We're in Germany and he's been using it for quite some time. When the score is high or low--we see it in our son, in the presence or absence of the following: bad breathe (very big one), sores, fistula, dramatic eye/teeth changes, etc. It's the most amazing thing ever. Maybe it's because our scores have been so high over the years?!?! I can't speak for the 500 crowd, we've consistently topped the 1000-2000 range.

Our son's stools are otherwise normal, no blood, no mucus, sometimes no loose stools. Even still, again, he's been as high as almost 2800/3000 range, severely inflamed, and that stinking calprotectin clues us into all his other symptoms (i.e. bad breathe) every single time.

But like you said, Drs. have a drive-thru approach. Remember too, this is a business.
 
crohnsinct said:
The Crohn's gods are laughing at us again...look at the forum trying to figure IT out. I HATE the mystery of this whole disease. But just for fun:

Oldest daughter bottle fed milk based formula from the minute she was born..sorry I didn't even try. She is my healthiest child.

Crohnie in the middle: Half and half but switched very early to non cow milk formula as they suspected an allergy. I also came off all milk products.

Youngest: exclusively breast fed no cows milk other than what she got from me until 3 years old. Vitaligo (Auto immune disease) and we are getting a fecal calprotectin test this week as constant stomach aches, little weight loss, vomiting and bloody bm's.

I am giving the Crohns gods my one finger salute!
Click to expand...

I'm all for the one finger salute--I salute with you! Hang in there!! I for one appreciate the information you posted. I have no idea how long our son's success will last, that's why I keep researching, looking for anything that might help later on down the road.

One more salute to Crohn's, for good measure!! BTW, I'm from Stratford, CT originally.
 

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