Does The Mind Make Our IBD And Pain Worse

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David

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We've all heard it, "It's all in your head." "Just be positive and it'll help." And countless similar iterations that makes us upset, frustrated, and every other emotion in the book. I've often thought, "If this is all in my head, my mind is the most powerful thing known to man." Sometimes you even wish that the person saying such things could feel your pain for just a minute so that they could come to understand how very real it is and shut the hell up.

Over time, I've seen various members here get quite upset over such statements. In fact, there's threads dedicated to it. We've also had issues where members try to tell other members to be happy and it'll help and an argument breaks out.

In my opinion, a person's personal support thread is never the place for such a debate as the one I'm starting here. We're a support forum first and foremost and when people need support or to vent, we need to create the space for exactly that. However, there's also space for debates such as this to take place on this forum so we can all take a step back and evaluate our minds, body, and emotions from a different perspective on occasion, if we so desire.

I'm nowhere smart or articulate enough to even begin to answer if our mind or emotions make our IBD and/or pain worse. I feel that they do, but I'll let Eckhart Tolle, the author of, "The Power Of Now" speak through an excerpt from his book:

Eckhart Tolle said:
As long as you are unable to access the power of the Now, every emotional pain that you experience leaves behind a residue of pain that lives on in you. It merges with the pain from the past, which was already there, and becomes lodged in your mind and body. This, of course, includes the pain you suffered as a child, caused by the unconsciousness of the world into which you were born.

This accumulated pain is a negative energy field that occupies your body and mind. If you look on it as an invisible entity in its own right, you are getting quite close to the truth. It's the emotional pain-body. It has two modes of being: dormant and active. A pain-body may be dormant 90 percent of the time; in a deeply unhappy person though, it may be active up to 100% of the time. Some people live almost entirely through their pain-body, while others may experience it only in certain situations, such as intimate relationships, or situations linked with past loss or abandonment, physical or emotional hurt, and so on. Anything can trigger it, particularly if it resonates with a pain pattern from your past. When it is ready to awaken from its dormant stage, even a thought or innocent remark made by someone close to you can activate it.

Some pain bodies are obnoxious but relatively harmless, for example like a child who won't stop whining. Others are vicious and destructive monsters, true demons. Some are physically violent. Some will attack people around you or close to you, while others may attack you, their host. Thoughts and feelings you have about your life then become deeply negative and self destructive. Illnesses and accidents are often created in this way. Some pain bodies drive their hosts to suicide.

When you thought you knew a person and then you are suddenly confronted with this alien, nasty creature for the first time, you are in for quite a shock. However, it's more important to observe it in yourself than in someone else. Watch for any signs of unhappiness in yourself, in whatever form -- it may be the awakening pain body. This can take the form of irritation, impatience, a somber mood, a desire to hurt, anger, rage, depression, a need to have some drama in your relationship, and so on. Catch it the moment it awakens from its dormant state.

The pain body wants to survive, just like every other entity in existence, and it can only survive if it gets you to unconsciously identify with it. It can then rise up, take you over, "become you" and live through you. It needs to get its "food" through you. It will feed in any experience that resonates with its own kind of energy, anything that creates further pain in whatever form: anger, destructiveness, hatred, grief, emotional drama, violence, and even illness. So the pain body, when it has taken you over, will create a situation in your life that reflects back its own energy frequency to feed on. Pain can only feed on pain. Pain cannot feed on joy. It finds it quite indigestible.

Once the pain body has taken you over, you want more pain. You become a victim or a perpetrator. You want to inflict pain, or you want to suffer pain, or both. There isn't really much difference between the two. You are not conscious of this, or course, and will vehemently claim that you do not want pain. But look closely and you will find that your thinking and behavior are designed to keep the pain going, for yourself and others. If you were truly conscious of it, the pattern would dissolve, for to want more pain is insanity, and nobody is consciously insane.

The pain body, which is the dark shadow cast by the ego, is actually afraid of the light of your consciousness. It is afraid of being found out. Its survival depends on your unconscious identification with it, as well as your unconscious fear of facing the pain that lives in you. But if you don't face it, if you don't bring the light of your consciousness into the pain, you will be force to relive it again and again. The pain body may seem to you like a dangerous monster that you cannot bear to look at, but I assure you that it is an insubstantial phantom that cannot prevail against the power of your presence.

Some spiritual teachings say that all pain is ultimately an illusion, and this is true. The question is: Is it true for you? A mere belief doesn't make it true. Do you want to experience pain for the rest of your life and keep saying that it is an illusion? Does that free you from the pain? What we are concerned with here is how you can realize the truth -- that is, make it real in your own experience.

So the pain body doesn't want you to observe it directly and see it for what it is. The moment you observe it, feel its energy field within you, and taker your attention into it, the identification is broken. A higher dimension of consciousness has come in. I call it presence. You are now the witness or the watcher of the pain body. This means that it cannot use you anymore by pretending to be you, and it can no longer replenish itself through you. You have found your own innermost strength. You have accessed the power of Now.

I can't speak for any of you. All I can do is observe myself and take personal responsibility for my way of thinking and emotional state. I've read the book the excerpt above comes from multiple times. Yet just now typing that excerpt out helped me realize a few things. For example, I DO engage in things that cause my IBD to become worse. Why is that? I'm not sure, but it's something for me to go inside and determine. Because as it is, as I do engage in those negative activities, my mind is in fact making my IBD and pain worse. For me, some of this is in my head. That's a tough pill to swallow.
 
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Hubs and I were just discussing this subject. Whenever I get extremely stressed about something (it's always a particular thing) I get diarrhea within five minutes.

It makes me wonder about how much my inability to handle stress affects my other digestive issues. I'm in therapy for childhood issues and am learning how much my mindset affects my physical well being. I find that personally empowering.
 
This just about sums it up and it's a great book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_machine

It's like how people separate mind from body...but what is mind, but body? What is our mind? It's brain tissue, ie body. He argues it's the same and says you can't even argue about the mind vs body really, because they are one and the same.

"Ryle criticizes the theory that the mind is a place where mental images are apprehended, perceived, or remembered. Sensations, thoughts, and feelings do not belong to a mental world which is distinct from the physical world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Concept_of_Mind

And the way the nervous system ties in with all this is fascinating...
 
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I really believe in a positive outlook. I think it makes things worse (especially pain) if you are always "woe is me" or "this is just horrrrrrrible".

I take things in stride. Yeah, I might not always feel awesome, but I can do what I can do. I'm only human. I have to decide: What is manageable? What can I not live with? The things in the second group are on my priority list while the things in the first group I pick my battles.

So far I've not ever been in pain enough to need pain management or drugs, but yet I'm a severe case of Crohn's Disease close to the surgery point. In one doc's words "we are just trying to keep the house from burning down at this point"

Is it because of a positive mind? I dunno. But I'd rather be happy.
 
Katie Sue is right, my daughter is in Psychology and the mind controls the body and the body makes your muscles and joints move. You can't control everything but I found in my experience that when I feel good I go, when I am not good I still think positive and know this soon will end. Your enviornment depends on it, kids, family and even animals can sense your moods. Not always easy but as Katie says... I'd rather be happy. ;)
 
While I do believe the mind is a most powerful thing, I do not believe I can make myself well by thinking positive thoughts all the time. I believe we have the power to drive our emotions, with the exclusion of fright, but being happy or positive all the time is just not feasible in today's society. Perhaps if you live on an island in a land called Utopia, you could pull it off.
I am a happy, easy going person most of the time and I have a difficult time swallowing this stuff. Yeah, I'd rather be happy but if you break a toe, you are going to hurt and that isn't happy.
 
The excerpt from the book is talking about emotional pain, right? The first sentence specifically mentions emotional pain, so I assume that is what the rest of the quote is discussing. If that is the case, I totally agree. I see it happening with so many people around me, it's amazing they can even continue to function in life.

Physical pain? Different topic altogether. I agree with Michelle - stub a toe, it's going to hurt. For some worse than others - we all have a different physical pain tolerance.

I also believe in mind over matter in some cases - I think this is what "the power of prayer" really is. In dealing with our disease specifically, many different types of treatment have worked for many different people.

I don't know if a positive attitude has ever cured anyone, but it sure is a whole lot easier than being a sad sack all of the time. It makes one more pleasant to be around, which makes it easier to have a good support system, it makes doctors more responsive, and employers more flexible - all of these help to heal in their own way.

When people on this forum send (((hugs))) or "positive thoughts" that sure helps me feel better, even if it doesn't cure me.

- Ames
 
I think how I feel and react can influence the feeling of pain and discomfort, and even worsen symptoms like diarrhoea, but not necessarily the underlying disease process. I think that positive thinking won't make you better, but allows you to make the best of what you've got, and symptoms will have a less severe impact. Having said that, I also think we all need times to let negative feelings out, whether that's spending a day on the sofa feeling sorry for yourself, or venting on here, or picking a fight with a family member, letting the feelings out rather than burying them and letting them fester makes it so much easier to be positive.
 
i kind of agree with the 'pain body' entity - although i have my own views on it all which differ slightly...

i believe we all have personal pre-set levels of copability, in all aspects of us - pain, sadness, stress, problem solving... some us of throw our hands up in defeat way before others would, and by the same token, many of us continue to fight long past the point where others (including healthy people) would have given up and sunk into depression.

i am a fighter, i always have been - not with other people - but with seeking answers, getting help, making sure that things are as fair and right as i possibly can, for myself and those i care about.. my stubborn attitude has pulled me through surgery and near-death, amongst other personal battles.. but after years of fighting, i'm beginning to get weary... i'm reaching my personal level of copability.

right now i'm facing another hurdle in my life - it's possible from the symptoms i've had for a while now that something nasty is going on in my upper stomach. i've just had an overnight stay in hospital, i've got to go for a CT scan next week, and also an endoscopy - i'm trying very hard not to let the worry pull me down, i haven't yet reached the tears or panic, but i think it will come. and there's nothing i can do about it.

if someone, even in well-meaning, said to me now "you're doing this to yourself", i would be very angry, frustrated, and upset. i've lived my life to the full as much as i could between the last Crohn's episode and this patch of ill health.. i've remembered every day to be grateful for the lull in symptoms i've been lucky enough to enjoy, and i've put the thought that it could return one day to the back of my mind.

i really don't believe that Crohn's symptoms can be helped with a positive attitude - i believe how we deal with it can be.

i believe there is a certain amount of physical which can be ruled by the emotional - but not everything can be. Crohn's didn't come at my invitation, i didn't do anything to invite it - but how i've dealt with it has been my personal choice, and up until now, i've dealt with it well.
 
There's a demographic in this discussion that is often overlooked. Children also get sick. They don't worry about it when they feel good and when they feel bad that's all they know. They aren't visualizing what may be going on inside. They simply know they don't feel good and have every expectation that their parents or doctors can fix it. For 95% of this past year, EJ has felt great. He has done every thing his friends have done. He's laughed and played and his only connection to crohns has been bloodworks and meds and his parent's nagging. Despite this, his bloods continued to worsen and his recent scope showed that things are creeping back. My point being that the innocence of a child is the perfect example of positive thinking and it simply is not enough.

I do believe in positive thinking as well but also believe that my own philosophy about it is just as valid, more in fact for me personally, than all the ten gazillion others out there.

Sue, I don't know if you've mentioned this latest setback anywhere else on the forum but I'm sorry to hear it and I hope it turns out not to be something serious. You do such a good job keeping this forum running smoothly, it's easy to overlook why you are here in the first place. The best to you!!
 
There's a demographic in this discussion that is often overlooked. Children also get sick. They don't worry about it when they feel good and when they feel bad that's all they know.

My point being that the innocence of a child is the perfect example of positive thinking and it simply is not enough.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2007/jul/23/childrensservices.medicineandhealth

Someone's prescribing something (anti depressants) to kids at record numbers. There must me some indication they aren't in a positive mindset, regardless of whether it's right to prescribe to kids or not.

It doesn't matter if you are visualizing your gut or not when you think, your overall mental state can affect yourself, and that applies to anyone regardless of age.

Kids experience one mental hurdle after another - from the process of being born which some believe can be traumatic, to finding out their trusted parents have been lying to them about things as they get older, to being put into schools and tested and made to conform before they even understand. Peer pressure, trying to fit in etc etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG7p6CSbCU

Working class hero ... it's an awesome Lennon song / observation about the process of the indoctrination of kids into modern slavery. One of his best from a long list.

Colombine school shootings (and all the stuff that's happened since with kids)... definitely not so innocent in thought.

Kids are definitely anything but innocent - they try to be, but they aren't allowed to be. The innocence of kids I think is more of a myth for adults.

As soon as your born they make you feel small,
By giving you no time instead of it all,
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
They hurt you at home and they hit you at school,
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool,
Till you're so f*****g crazy you can't follow their rules,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years,
Then they expect you to pick a career,
When you can't really function you're so full of fear,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,
And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still f*****g peasents as far as I can see,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.
There's room at the top they are telling you still,
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill,
A working class hero is something to be.
A working class hero is something to be.
If you want to be a hero well just follow me,
If you want to be a hero well just follow me.
 
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I may be way off the mark but I think Dex is talking very personally here. I don't take his post as meaning children in general but more specifically children with IBD which is what this thread is targeted at.

He has stated that EJ is essentially a happy go lucky kid, he has a positive mindest and yet his Crohns appears to be rearing it's ugly head again. He is not talking himself into it or moping around the house or anything else for that matter to bring it upon himself.

I also think that most people would agree that the mind is a very powerful object. I work in the field of palliative care and I know for a fact that some people do have the ability to will themselves to die but that is vastly different concept to willing illness away.

I have no doubt that ones *mental state* plays a role in IBD as it does in other illnesses and aspects of peoples lives however I personally believe it is but one piece of a very complex puzzle.

Dusty. :)
 
He has stated that EJ is essentially a happy go lucky kid, he has a positive mindest and yet his Crohns appears to be rearing it's ugly head again. He is not talking himself into it or moping around the house or anything else for that matter to bring it upon himself.

Well you don't have to be moping around or have outward signs. I'm not saying her kid is anything, but in terms of your mental state, it doesn't always manifest itself externally in terms of behaviour. In fact, when it doesn't outwardly express itself in behaviour, and is repressed, that's most often when it can act out in other ways like illness.

There's a conscious and a subconscious. The conscious we are aware of. The sub conscious we don't know what's going on in there on a conscious level. It's "sub" conscious.
 
i believe there is a certain amount of physical which can be ruled by the emotional - but not everything can be. Crohn's didn't come at my invitation, i didn't do anything to invite it - but how i've dealt with it has been my personal choice, and up until now, i've dealt with it well.

I believe everything can be. And they aren't mutually inclusive. You don't need to invite something to happen. There are 2 ways things can happen in the body, external or internal. Any function that happens in the body is the result of a cell's reaction to some stimulus. That stimulus, as far as the cell knows, is an electrical signal.

There are 2 ways to impart that electrical signal, always. 1 way is for the cell to sense it through its own devices, and turn that sensory action into an electrical signal that gets passed along inside it resulting in action (or reaction). The second way to impart an electrical signal to a cell, is from the brain. That pathway inside the cell, that accepts the electrical signal to do its thing, is wired into the external sensor of the cell, and also wired into the brain.

Healing can be affected by the mind, definitely.

Consider this also... that inflamed patch in your gut, is just cells in a certain state. Those cells, ultimately, are nothing bit energy. They aren't really there. If you look close enough with the right kind of microscope, you can see that. It's all just energy. When you think to lift your arm, it's energy acting on energy, really.

Ryle's book refuting Descarte's theory of the ghost in the machine i mentioned earlier in the thread is a great example of how philosophy, not research medicine, can bring about more important answers that can later be proven. His assertion that you can't separate mind and body through observation and reasoning (and a thorough understanding of language and being able to think critically) basically proved what scientists with an electron microscope have proven years later, it's all the same stuff, mind and body, it's all energy. He didn't need an electron microscope to disprove something, just reasoning.
 
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I fully understand what a conscious and a sub conscious is.

Just one question. Do you believe it is possible that if you are happy, have a positive mental attitude that you may still develop illness?
 
Just one question. Do you believe it is possible that if you are happy, have a positive mental attitude that you may still develop illness?

Of course you can. Like I said, 2 ways to impart change/action inside the body on a cellular level - internal, external, and the 2 don't need to happen together, either alone is enough to impart change.
 
Sue, I don't know if you've mentioned this latest setback anywhere else on the forum but I'm sorry to hear it and I hope it turns out not to be something serious. You do such a good job keeping this forum running smoothly, it's easy to overlook why you are here in the first place. The best to you!!


thanks buddy... and no, i haven't mentioned it - i guess it's one of those 'if i don't say it out loud, it ain't happening' kinda things.. lol. oh well, it's out now.... time will tell...
 
Consider this also... that inflamed patch in your gut, is just cells in a certain state. Those cells, ultimately, are nothing bit energy. They aren't really there. If you look close enough with the right kind of microscope, you can see that. It's all just energy. When you think to lift your arm, it's energy acting on energy, really.

hmm... lifting my arm is a message from my brain to a part of my body... having ulcerated patches is not the same thing at all...

if the cells are not really there, then i wonder what it is they remove via biopsy and study, and come up with a diagnosis from???

i'm sorry - i get what you're saying, and that you're passionate about your beliefs, but some of it is a little far-fetched, in my opinion.
 
hmm... lifting my arm is a message from my brain to a part of my body... having ulcerated patches is not the same thing at all...

if the cells are not really there, then i wonder what it is they remove via biopsy and study, and come up with a diagnosis from???

i'm sorry - i get what you're saying, and that you're passionate about your beliefs, but some of it is a little far-fetched, in my opinion.

Lol ok you need a basic science lesson, i don't have time now but I will get you links. Look up electron microscope.

What you've said is typical opinion, and it's a reflection of how far common knowledge and what is taught in schools and what even doctors know is outdated and wrong compared to what has actually been discovered in the last few decades.

Everything is made up of nothing but energy. The energy forms to us what is matter, but it's all just energy.

Look up string theory.

Just like bacteria was a mystery not too long ago, that's akin to what's going on now in science with particles and energy (well a few decades ago and being built on now).
 
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Lol ok you need a basic science lesson, i don't have time now but I will get you links. Look up electron microscope.

This is typical, and it's a reflection of how far common knowledge and what is taught in schools and what even doctors know is outdated and wrong compared to what has actually been discovered in the last few decades.

Everything is made up of nothing but energy. The energy forms to us what is matter, but it's all just energy.

I just have to ask, what type of credentials do you have? Are you are doctor,or naturalpath or a professor, just was curious is all.:wink:
 
I just have to ask, what type of credentials do you have? Are you are doctor,or naturalpath or a professor, just was curious is all.:wink:

I am not a doctor or a naturopath or a professor, and I've met some pretty dumb and malicious of each of those.

If you are looking for someone with a title to help you go find them, but you likely won't.

Feel free to refute anything I've said. Just don't blanket it with you're not a doctor so I'm not listening, that's being closed minded and doing yourself a disservice.
 
I am not being negative about you, I was curious is all. I too have had Crohns dx for 20 years and symptoms for 35 and have siblings with the disease as well. I have tried everything, natural, and medicinal and surgery. My diet changes from time to time depending on my flares. I don't advocate anything or endorse, but if someone asks me how I stay mostly pain free I tell them. My Daughter is studying this area in cells and disorders in University and heading for the medical field. The cutting edge stuff she is learning is amazing what none of us know. She is in Kenesiology and Psychology and she loves learning as it teaches her for her own personal gain. She also wants to help me too. She has Reading Week next week and will show her some of this stuff and gain some insight from what they are learning. I too am curious. Hate this disease and everything attached to it. I try and learn what I can and incorporate it into my everyday living and if it don't work...back to the drawing board!
 
Lol ok you need a basic science lesson, i don't have time now but I will get you links.


err.. that's very thoughtful of you, but please - the very last thing i want right now is a science lesson.

i do understand what you're saying, my obviously limited schooling has given me enough understanding to read and absorb, thankfully, but that does not necessarily mean that understanding brings belief.

all the terrible diseases in this world, you cannot just pass them all off as energy, invisible under certain microscopes, and it's a helluva statement to accuse modern doctors of being ignorant of scientific and medicinal findings of the last few decades!
 
I am not a doctor or a naturopath or a professor, and I've met some pretty dumb and malicious of each of those.

If you are looking for someone with a title to help you go find them, but you likely won't.

Feel free to refute anything I've said. Just don't blanket it with you're not a doctor so I'm not listening, that's being closed minded and doing yourself a disservice.

You're not a doctor. I'm not listening. :ylol:j/k

Why should I listen to you? Really.

You make it sound like your s**t doesn't stink either!

Your posts really rub me the wrong way, but to each her own. Maybe it's the tone I take from each post of yours that I have read. Like you know better than everybody else. Why do you take this path? Have you found that essentially telling others that they don't know what is best them actually gets your point across? Anyway, some people on the boards seem to like your posts, and honestly you have great info. Maybe you should reconsider the way you put the info out there. Just a thought.
 
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I have not wanted to jump in to this thread for fear of being attacked or ridiculed, but I agree with Pen's last statement completely. We on this forum, for the most part, are pretty open-minded, curious people who will learn about and research new things about our diseases. "The more information, the better" seems to be a theme with most of us here.

However, being LOL'ed at and condescended to while being given information tends to make people not want to read your posts/links/etc. I feel you are quite well-informed and probably have lots to share, and probably a good addition to this forum. It's your tone and holier-than-thou attitude that turn me off.

I personally am not a slave to my disease. It's something I have, live with and try to manage the best I can. Yes, I do believe in medicine, I work in healthcare. Yes, I have tried different diets. Yes, I have tried different therapies. I am also currently working with a therapist on dealing with issues (mostly from my past) that cause me much stress and anxiety. The excerpt David posted above is quite powerful. It's difficult to live in the moment, especially when at that moment you are feeling crappy.

I am only a human after all. Just a ball of energy or stardust or whatever. Fallible, imperfect, doing-the-best-I can human. I personally come here for advice, support, research, venting, etc. This place has been a godsend, due to the fact that I have so much shame involved with this disease. That's due to societal "norms" as well as personal pressure upon myself. The more you talk about things and open yourself up to them, the less scary they will be. At least that is what I am learning.
 
I was mulling some of this over while I walked the dog. Endibd, quite a few posts ago you said something along the lines of, cells in the human body can react to their own stimuli, or to a stimulus sent by the brain. I don't think this is quite right. I thought that cells were one way, information either passed from outside stimulus to the brain, or from the brain. If a cell is responding to an outside stimulus, it doesn't have a pathway to receive input from the brain. No amount of 'thinking' will stop the cell responding. However, you can stop the response from reaching the brain, which isn't quite the same thing. Also, I thought inflammation is when a cell gets physically damaged, not from responding to a stimuli.
 
I thought inflammation is when a cell gets physically damaged, not from responding to a stimuli.

But how does the cell 'know' it's damaged to respond that way? It's from stimulus. That can be from something it perceives or from something it is sent from the brain.

If a cell is responding to an outside stimulus, it doesn't have a pathway to receive input from the brain.

Yes it does.

Cells can live and function without a brain for some time, until they die off. Cells don't die the second they are disconnected from the brain. Cells are also fed information by the brain, and vice versa.
 
However, being LOL'ed at and condescended to while being given information tends to make people not want to read your posts/links/etc. I feel you are quite well-informed and probably have lots to share, and probably a good addition to this forum. It's your tone and holier-than-thou attitude that turn me off.

I know and when people beligerently, repeatedly, refute facts I state without facts of their own and insult me, I just brush them off and suck it up. Thanks for thinking of my feelings I appreciate it :)
 
Like you know better than everybody else.

If there are some things I do know about, that's what and why I post. Would you rather I post about something I know nothing about or am posting out of hearsay?

There's a lot of mis information here, so there's a lot to be corrected.

Feel free to refute my facts with facts of your own.
 
Well like Dex, as the parent of a child with multiple health issues, I do take issue with what you are saying...... No one is as happy and resilient and positive in the face of terrible adversity as my daughter and the other children on this forum. They just want to be kids - not kids fighting disease.

How sad that a place (this forum) that I see as a place for learning, support, caring and thought is taking such a nasty turn at your keyboard. As I wished you on my other post - best of luck.
 
But how does the cell 'know' it's damaged to respond that way? It's from stimulus. That can be from something it perceives or from something it is sent from the brain.

The cell doesn't need to know it is physically damaged. If I ripped a piece of paper in half, does it know it's damaged? I doubt it.

Inflammation is a collection dead and dying cells, at least that is my understanding of it. A cell doesn't respond in an inflamed way, it simply dies.


endibd said:
Cells can live and function without a brain for some time, until they die off. Cells don't die the second they are disconnected from the brain. Cells are also fed information by the brain, and vice versa.

To be honest, I'm not sure how this relates to my comment about cells being one way. But how do cells receive information from the brain?
 
The cell doesn't need to know it is physically damaged. If I ripped a piece of paper in half, does it know it's damaged? I doubt it.

Inflammation is a collection dead and dying cells, at least that is my understanding of it. A cell doesn't respond in an inflamed way, it simply dies.




To be honest, I'm not sure how this relates to my comment about cells being one way. But how do cells receive information from the brain?

Electrical impulses when you boil it all down.

When you think you want to type a response post on this forum, and your fingers start to move, that's a signal (conscious) that originated from your brain and the end result is it moves your fingers. The cells that make up your fingers and hands and arms received messages to make them move, from the brain.
 
Endibd, or should i say Juiceit - you were banned as Juiceit, and you have broken forum rules by re-registering once banned... guess what - you're about to be banned again. please don't re-register again, you will get found out....
 
Endibd, or should i say Juiceit - you were banned as Juiceit, and you have broken forum rules by re-registering once banned... guess what - you're about to be banned again. please don't re-register again, you will get found out....

Good to know God has heard at least one of my prayers!

Thank you God... and Ding!
 
Endibd, or should i say Juiceit - you were banned as Juiceit, and you have broken forum rules by re-registering once banned... guess what - you're about to be banned again. please don't re-register again, you will get found out....

Ding, I was back from my walk and wow, you figured it out and I was going to pm you to say, this seems awful familiar!!! Good catch.:thumleft:
 
Thanks Ding. I was getting more and more frustrated by the posts and none of them were posts responding to me!
Getting back on track of the original post... For the Brits our there there was an excellent programme on BBC a few weeks ago (Horizon - The secret world of pain. Still available on iplayer)
It looked at new advances in research into pain. There were a variety of different people on it. Some who have intense pain and some who feel no pain!
The one that I was intrigued by was a man who had terrible burns that needed to be dressed a few times a week. This caused him horrific pain. The researchers were trying out using virtual reality games. So when he had his burns dressed he wore the virtual reality head wear and played a game. He didn't feel the pain of his burns being dressed! The programme talked about the brain being "tricked" as it can't process two different realities at once (sorry I'm no scientist!)
It was a fascinating programme and if you can I'd recommend you to watch it
 
I think I have seen something similar to that. It's basically a mind over matter type thing. I don't remember who uses it, but there are burn units and pain wards that do use the virtual reality head gear to help the patients to get through the painful treatments.

This is also why hospital architects and interior designers design hospitals with more elements of nature and outdoorsy-ness. It helps the patient feel less institutionalized and scared. Just mind over the matter. This is why I'm a firm believer in the positive attitude.

I don't mean blatantly always happy and on cloud nine. I'm talking more about a rational approach to life. Talking yourself through things, realizing how not everything is the end of the world. Picking battles, CHOOSING to be happy instead of suffer. This doesn't mean I don't suffer. I just pick and choose what things I think are worth the anguish and which ones I can get over.

But then again, I'm a "get over it, or fix it" type of person. In life, those are my only options.
 
Is it awful that I'm breathing a sigh of relief?!?!?!?!? Thank you, Dingbat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:thumleft:
 
Bushy- that's kind of where I was going. You can override the pain signal, the man still has the burns, he can't heal those, but can lessen the symptom of oain. And vice versa, if you concentrate on the pain you can feel it more, but won't be actually damaging the tissue more.
 
When I speak of the mind and emotion and its affects on the physical body, I speak of something much more powerful than thinking positively or keeping a happy mindset. Those are surface level emotions in my opinion. I speak of traumatic experiences that become lodged in the musculature of the body and wreak havoc until released. I speak of Fight or Flight.

When we experience something deeply traumatic on either a physical or emotional level, our body releases powerful neurotransmitters and hormones that prepare us to either fight or run. Whether this is done during a car accident, being raped, screamed at by your father when you're three, or any other countless scenarios, one thing that ALWAYS happens is various muscles in your body tighten in anticipation of running or fighting. We evolved so that once the need to be in Fight or Flight is over, we then shake (ever seen a small child shake when consoled over a frightening experience?) and/or cry. Problem is, our society has made it so that for a variety of reasons, we often no longer release that pent up energy by shaking or crying (we bottle our emotions, ever heard that before?) so it becomes lodged in us. On a physical level, that traumatic experience causes deep muscle contractions because we never properly released the tension associated with that fight or flight response.

Think of it as a garden hose. When there aren't any kinks in the hose, water runs free. But if you put kinks in that hose, all of a sudden water stops running like it should. Now think of that as your body. Put enough kinks in your body, and all of a sudden everything from your blood to lymph fluid might not be getting to where it needs to be. It's kinked, like a hose. How can we expect the cells of our body to properly function if they aren't getting the nutrients they need and/or able to remove the junk they don't need? I believe this is how a lot of disease comes about.

For YEARS I would wake up in the middle of the night feeling like I was choking to death. This would happen maybe once a month and it was terrible. This no longer happens. Why? I released the trauma that was associated with it. I finally properly processed a long held trauma so that the muscles that were deeply tensed in my neck and throat were able to properly release. Allow me to give more background.

About six years ago I was practicing yoga in my then girlfriend's bedroom. I went into child's pose and my right shoulder began to twitch. Normally when we twitch, we tense up to stop it, right? I got curious and relaxed into the twitch more. The twitch became a shake. I relaxed more. The shake became a convulsion and all of a sudden the story of how my professional baseball career ended graphically popped into my mind which I felt a compulsion to tell my girlfriend. As I told her this story, my arm and shoulder began to convulse more to the point that it was, "Alarming" according to her. And frankly, I was terrified as well. I have no doubt that if I went into the ER as my arm was convulsing that they would have pumped me full of all kinds of drugs.

But there was a part of me that felt this convulsion was a GOOD thing. As I let go of the story of my career ending, I felt this wave of peace and relaxation fall over my being. Yet there was also a part of me that was saying, "Dude, you're going to die. Go to the ER!" It was a battle between ego and something else. After this happened, I was left feeling so much better having had the powerful release, but also feeling fear as well as having a lot of questions.

About one month later I found myself in my yoga studio on the ground, with my full body shaking. I looked kinda like this:

[youtube]_jpiSDamNPY[/youtube]

I was taking a workshop put on by a man named Dr. David Berceli of Traumaprevention.com. What I realized as I was laying on the ground shaking was:

1. What I was experiencing was basically the same thing I experienced with my shoulder, but across my whole body.

2. This man had figured out how to systemize the process so that it could be brought about pretty much anytime we wanted as a healing method.

3. It was a GOOD thing.

There was around 60 people in the room and it was an amazing experience. People were laughing, crying, and shaking uncontrollably as they let go of tension and emotion from years gone by. A truly powerful and eye opening experience. I was excited and now that I knew how to cause this shaking in my body, I dove head first into the process.

As I dove headfirst into this process I did it day after day after day. Sometimes I'd have a little shake and that was it, other times I'd access something and a little emotion would come up. One day as I lay on the ground shaking my throat started to get tight. I relaxed into it and the next thing I knew, a graphic image of my choking on a hot dog at a fair when I was five popped into my mind. I literally felt the hot dog lodged in my throat and the next thing I knew, I felt my body hack up this hot dog. When it happened when I was five, my dad saw me choking, ran over, and pounded me on the back. I remember not being able to breathe and being terrified. When my dad pounded me on the back, I hacked up the hot dog on the ground around a bunch of people. My dad cleaned it up and went back on his way. He didn't console this terrified child and the terrified child didn't cry because he didn't feel safe, he didn't understand anything except that he just went through something very scary.

Well, THIS TIME, I cried. I released the emotion that wanted to be released more than 20 years previously (this happened about 5 years ago). And the adult David also consoled that child that was still within me. And since then, I haven't woken up in the middle of the night choking.

I believe these deep emotional traumas are what Jesus was speaking of what he said, "“If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you." I finally brought forth something that was destroying me and good god did it feel good.

Over the last five years, I've experienced similar releases of traumatic experiences. It has destroyed many of my belief systems and been both liberating and terrifying at times.

Through the shaking, meditation, yoga, and other introspective work I have made huge inroads to being a more emotionally whole and mature person. But I still have plenty of work to do. Can my IBD be cured by this? Is it the manifestation of some old traumatic injury or injuries? I have no idea. What I do realize is that my ego does everything it can to stop me from accessing those old traumas. That's why I created my ego 31 years ago, because I didn't want to ever experience trauma again. My ego would protect me from it. The thing is, to heal these traumas, me ego has to let me access them. And boy howdy does it use every defensive and offensive tactic in the book to ensure I don't. It's quite the protector.

Has a lot of my physical, mental, and emotional problems been all in my mind? Yes. But that's because they got stuck in my body because I never processed the underlying issue correctly. It's nothing for me to be ashamed of and the physical manifestations are most definitely there. Does this apply to any of you? Could your IBD be a result of past traumas that you've not dealt with on a deep emotional level? I have no idea. I don't think for a second that IBD has any single cause. What I do feel is, at the very least, all of this deep, chronic muscle tension from past traumatic experiences we never processed that causes our hoses to kink, sure as hell doesn't help our conditions. Our mind, our ego, is stopping us from releasing those kinks. And unfortunately, all the positive thinking in the world won't change that.
 
wow David.. the first part of your post had me nodding in agreement - i've been there - and the second part has made my eyes leak!

it is so true about the fight or flight reaction - and this is exactly what happened to me all that time i was living in a bubble of panic attacks... i had to learn exactly what the chain reaction was that my body was going through, before i could start to learn coping mechanisms.... something my CBT guy taught me reflects on what you're saying.. he said imagine that we all have a rubbish bin in our heads, and all the crap in life that we get thrown at us on a daily basis ends up in there, is dealt with, and disposed of.. but if there's too much, the bin overflows, and we start to show physical signs of crap overload.. well that's in the basic terms, there was a lot more to it - but the physical signs can be anything from panic attacks, to heightened anxiety, to depression... i had to learn to deal with the rubbish, face it, accept it, and file it away for ever..

i also had a similar experience of unexpected 'letting go' to you.. i went for a course of 12 hypnotherapy treatments to stop smoking.... straight away, on my first visit, i went into hypnosis and i was transported back to being a small child, clambouring onto my dad's chair, sitting on his knee.. i could actually look around the room and see everything in our lounge from my childhood that i hadn't seen/remembered for years.. every single one of those 12 hypnosis sessions took me back to childhood, to being with my dad, and i cried every time, bitter painful sobs - i was grieving for my father who'd died about 2 years before. the hypnotherapist was wonderful, she let the session go the way it needed to go, and obviously i needed to grieve, and could only really do it that way..

so, back to the IBD and how much control our minds have over it... i still don't know - i know of people who say their attitude has helped them overcome cancer, i've seen people live longer than their doctors have forecast, seemingly because of their enthusiasm for life... but it's all an unknown quantity to me, still..
 
Does the body rule the mind
or does the mind rule the body?
I dunno...

LOOK! Even darling Morrisey is on our wavelength! from 'I'm still ill'

Ta Ra Juicy! Knew it was you!
 
Wow, David! Have you ever heard of Edgar Casey? He was known as the sleeping profit.

What I'm most curious about though is that.......baseball career!! Come on man, who,what,when,where and why?:). I understand if you don't want to reveal anything...just peaked my interest!
 
So let me get this straight endibd. I may not be fully understanding your deeper meaning, but you are saying that all of the inflammed and ulcerated tissues of my colon are not actually real? That they are all an illusion of modern medicine and that if you really look at this with a microscope that you are sure that no researcher has used up to date to study the disease, that nothing but normal healthy tissue and mucosae lining will appear? Well watch this video of someone's colonscopy (that is not mine) I found and answer the "illusion" for me, because I definetely need clarifying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJDgoIyk4Mg

You also mentioned that the mind Itself can heal the body? Well I am assuming that you have a form of IBD and you suffer the same as us all on this forum. So answer my this, why is it whenever I wish and pray that I could rid myself of this disease, nothing happens? Why is it that when I was not on Humira I did not even have a quality of life other than just trying to get by day by day? So if the mind can heal the body and get rid of this disease ifself, why is it then that you are (once again assuming since there is no cure) not cured through the power of the mind and it's healing powers?


I am being somewhat sarcastic all in all because I personally do not believe in what you are trying to sell to me....just my opinion, but what do I know? But in the end I would seriously like the questions answered so I can understand you more and make a more definetive opinion.
 
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Very interesting, well thought out and very well written. When I read something like this, it takes me out of the day to day survival mode and makes me think passed all that.
I think as a 5 year old you had a right to be terrified. My dad would have screamed & yelled (only because he was scared, not because he was a monster). Very intriguing, David, thanks.
Michele

Okay, David. I have started to scratch the very surface of the TRE method. Question: did it relieve back pain for you? I have just enough anatomy knowledge to see it is very possible. Not belittling the trauma part, it is just that back pain is my biggest worry right now.
 
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Wow, David! Have you ever heard of Edgar Casey? He was known as the sleeping profit.
I've heard the name before but that's about it :)

What I'm most curious about though is that.......baseball career!! Come on man, who,what,when,where and why?:). I understand if you don't want to reveal anything...just peaked my interest!
I never made the majors and retired medically. Not much to talk about.

Okay, David. I have started to scratch the very surface of the TRE method. Question: did it relieve back pain for you? I have just enough anatomy knowledge to see it is very possible. Not belittling the trauma part, it is just that back pain is my biggest worry right now.
I never had back pain. However, in my opinion, a lot of back pain is caused by tension in the iliopsoas muscle. The psoas is important because it is THE major muscle involved in fight or flight. It's the muscle that fires when you cower into a fetal position. It's the muscle that clenches when you're about to run. It's the muscle that fires when you're going to kick. And it not only connects all the way down in the femur, but it's also the only muscle that connects all three major areas of the body as it goes through the hip and connects to all the lower lumbar. A TREMENDOUS amount of emotion is held in the psoas and when it's tense, back pain is very common. It's a big part of the reason why I feel so many people have back pain but X Rays and MRIs show nothing is really wrong. Because those can't tell that a muscle is tense due to emotion from traumatic experiences of the past that were never properly processed.

The psoas is the primary muscle we target through the TRE method. From there, the shaking is like an earthquake and works to slowly soften the deep chronic tension and associated emotion trapped all over the body.
 
i also had a similar experience of unexpected 'letting go' to you.. i went for a course of 12 hypnotherapy treatments to stop smoking.... straight away, on my first visit, i went into hypnosis and i was transported back to being a small child, clambouring onto my dad's chair, sitting on his knee.. i could actually look around the room and see everything in our lounge from my childhood that i hadn't seen/remembered for years.. every single one of those 12 hypnosis sessions took me back to childhood, to being with my dad, and i cried every time, bitter painful sobs - i was grieving for my father who'd died about 2 years before. the hypnotherapist was wonderful, she let the session go the way it needed to go, and obviously i needed to grieve, and could only really do it that way..
It sounds like that was some very powerful healing for you, that's great :) In my opinion, there's no single way to deal with these emotions that are trapped within us. TRE, EMDR, hynotherapy, prayer, meditation, whatever. As long as it helps you get down deep inside yourself, then more power to you. With that said, I feel that some methodologies are far more affective than others while others still do more harm than good.
 
Major typo, blame it on spell check!

Quote from David in part:
I never had back pain. However, in my opinion, a lot of back pain is caused by tension in the iliopsoas muscle. The psoas is important because it is THE major muscle involved in fight or flight.

Yeah, the four "f's", the only things that are truly instinctive. All the rest come from higher level thinking and therefore can be learned or unlearned. Worth looking into as weekly deep tissue massage has worked wonders. And as an interesting side note, I laugh like a loon during my message sessions.
Michele
 
Worth looking into as weekly deep tissue massage has worked wonders. And as an interesting side note, I laugh like a loon during my message sessions.
Michele
Yeah, those emotional releases during massage or yoga or after incredible amounts of physical exertion are the same thing I speak of.

Usually, just under that laughing, is a deep emotional wound that'll come out one of these days. Ask your therapist if they're ok with you crying rather than laughing and allow yourself to do exactly that should it start to surface.
 
Oh yeah, he is wonderful. I have spoken to him about crying, laughing in the past. He has no problem with it. I know something is lurking, I just cannot figure out what it is. It drove me nuts thinking about it. Tried the therapy route, not for me. It has to come from inside me. I have been reading about this since your post. This may be my way, I don't know.
 
Oh yeah, he is wonderful. I have spoken to him about crying, laughing in the past. He has no problem with it. I know something is lurking, I just cannot figure out what it is. It drove me nuts thinking about it. Tried the therapy route, not for me. It has to come from inside me. I have been reading about this since your post. This may be my way, I don't know.
Heheh, yeah, I know the feeling of driving yourself nuts trying to figure out what it is. It took me a long time to finally just surrender to not trying to figure it out and instead just feeling it and letting it do what it needs to do. It's hard though, I certainly still struggle with it on occasion. Our minds sure do love to get involved. It sounds like you're on an amazing healing path, I'm excited for you :)
 
Fascinating post, David. In the past couple of weeks my therapist and I have been working on my back pain. We've gone back to the scene of the accident (a bicycle accident when I was 8). As I crashed I was looking back at my mom and brother angrily. There were also a series of events that happened that week that my therapist believes have "lodged" in my back. My back is feeling better as we've worked on my processing this stuff and releasing it.

I can't speak for everyone and I don't, at all. But I have my suspicions about my CD and my history. I've repressed A LOT of powerful emotions. They have to come out somewhere. I don't know. I hope I'm not offending anyone as this is my own personal situation.

I've also experienced an increase in my CD symptoms as I've decreased my Lexapro. I've read there's a link between the two.
 
Huh. More to think on. I know everyone has baggage of some sort. It may not seem "traumatic" now but it could have been when it happened. I am the original okay let's fix it & move on girl. Got a broken leg? Okay, let's slap a cast on that puppy & get going. (i actually said that to my dad after I broke my leg getting bucked off a horse, when I was 10!) :ywow: Things to do, papers to push, laundry to fold.

This is really something I am looking into. I know it is not a quick fix for any one thing but if it helps me feel better (I really don't care if it shows up in the tests or not) it does no harm & gives relief.

Okay, I will stop taking over this thread now. I have just been searching for that elusive "something" for years & this may be it.

Thanks again David.

Michele
 
MADiMarc, I'm enjoying your posts. :) Don't stop. :)

I agree that things may not seem "traumatic." I was very surprised at all the powerful emotions I had connected to my bike accident.

I also forgot to mention I'm looking into some psoas work too as I've been reading up on what you mentioned, David, regarding it storing emotions. I think that was you anyway. Have you read "The Psoas Book" by Liz Koch and if so what do you think of it? I may read it one of these days.
 
Here's an article I just read that was interesting regarding the interplay between the gut and the brain. Article is short but fascinating and basically states that the gut is responsible for IBS but that the gut itself is also influenced by the brain. They seem to almost be mirror images of each other, the brain and the gut (that's my impression).

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/36/14/16.full
 
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