Government funded health care

[pb4]

Yeah, in Canada, when our politicians piss us off, the worst they get is a pie in the face....no excuse for the behavior of those americans causing damage and making death threats for crying out loud.

Obama just borrowed something like 3 trillion, it seems you expect too much too soon when it comes to that yet you want them to slow down with their health care "building blocks"...makes no sense to me, I don't get where you're comming from.

 

[BWS1982]

Farm I think the later building blocks are there for the 2014 changes in the bill, what's odd is what you described about those 2 items being the start, is that they're essentially some of the aspects of the initial stages of the actual legislation, like eliminating pre-existing conditions and preventing the canceling of consumers' plans when they get sick. You can see what's outlined for later this year on the last post on the previous page (my post)...I think we could be closer to "being on the same page" than it seems when I spoke of getting the ball rolling and you spoke of the building blocks, but that's just my impression.

The second post from the top of mine, isn't just from "some site" though, it's from a PDF file released a couple weeks ago from the supporters and lawmakers who helped forge the legislation, so it's virtually void of any "interpretation" and basically a genuine summary of it by the people who wrote it. The other summary was from the Associated Press.

Here's another portion if this helps to answer anything, a bit on the cost/ramifications of inaction, if things don't change, and each claim is backed by a source (noted with a number), with respective links at the bottom:

Up to 17 million more people will be uninsured by 2019 than today. 1

The average family's health care costs will nearly double by 2020, from $13,000 to $24,000— meaning they'll be paying a quarter of their income toward health care costs. 2

Insurers can continue the massive and arbitrary premium rate increases we've heard about recently — such as Anthem Blue Cross raising rates for customers in California by nearly 40%, and rates in Illinois going up by as much as 60%.

As many as 275,000 people could die prematurely over the next 10 years because they don't have health insurance. 3

Health care costs will take up a staggering amount of our national budget. In 1960, it was 5 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), last year it was 17 percent. Costs will reach 21 percent of our economy by 2020 if we fail to act. 4

Rapidly rising costs will make it harder for employers — particularly small businesses — to provide quality health insurance to employees, leading many to drop coverage or shift to plans that cover less. 5

Even those who have insurance today will be less secure, and more likely to lose coverage if they switch jobs or lose their job due to rising costs on the individual market or being denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition. 6

1. http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/411965_failure_to_enact.pdf
2. Commonwealth Fund, via NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/weekinreview/28abelson.html
3. Families USA, via NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/weekinreview/28abelson.html
4. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Blog/The-Costs-of-Failure.aspx
5. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Blog/The-Costs-of-Failure.aspx
6. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/opinion/07sun1.html?pagewanted=all

I also just received this piece of news, this is how enraged this topic is making the extremists (on the opposing side, obviously)...I'm glad we here have enough experience in dealing with the medical world to find the good in a change:

A conservative blogger posted the home address of Congressman Tom Perriello, urging tea partiers to "drop by." Other members have had death threats. Democratic offices have been vandalized.

That and the death threats to the President?

I simply cannot comprehend the thought process that invokes such violent and vicious outbursts. I can't fathom the venom required to react in such a way to something noble and righteous, even if you oppose the financial aspects of it. Is it really worth harming and killing people because they want to spread access to healthcare? Abhorrent, simply abhorrent.

 

[pb4]

BWS, did you check out the link I posted above? It's what we saw on our news (in canada) about the death threats and such....there is both a video (just have to hear one advertisement before it goes to the actual story) and there's also the written story about it.

 

[BWS1982]

Yes. I'm embarrassed to share the same nationality as those lowlife's.

Sarah Palin has created a new low, which I swore was impossible. I think her stupidity could be mitigated if she picked up a book or got some exposure.

Forget their claims that rights are violated with healthcare reform, that ignorant hypocrisy goes out the window when the right to live at all is threatened because of legislation. "They" make it easier everyday for me to feel at peace with my political stances.

Person A tries to bring healthcare to the poor and sick, person B threatens person A's life because said action is a change they disagree with, claiming basically it should be "survival of the fittest". Why on God's green Earth does person B feel they are the better person?

 

[DanM]

Benson...

All laws bills introduced in congress are available online at thomas.loc.gov

H.R.3590 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:7:./temp/~c11161YNvQ::
Happy reading

 

[DanM]

Well, after seeing this on the news tonight (here's the news link)....watch the video link, the story comes on after the advertisement...

http://news.globaltv.com/money/Deat...+follow+health+care+debate/2724530/story.html

I see there are still too many cave-man mentalities among US citizens who don't deserve health care. Absolutely shameful that this is how human beings react to something good and positive...well it's funny how taxpayers don't want their money spent on a universal health care system that would take care of everyone, but they don't mind paying for extra security out of their tax dollars for the completely barbaric and stupid behavior some people have. Unbelievable and totally pathetic, no respect! What losers! Sarah Palin "reload" good god you guys are lucky she has no control over the entire country, what a joke.

oh yes, and everyone who cares about the environment are arsonists and members of ELF destroying car dealerships. And if you are against the war, you must be a mad bomber terrorist of the Weather Underground. Are you a devout Christian?? Then dammit, you must be a member of the Klan.

Aren't generalizations fun??

 

[pb4]

What can I say, I call it as I "see" it....those people causing vandalism, calling to make death threats and so on, are not deserving to live in any free country, and especially don't deserve any of the perks...who are they to put fear into those, politicians or not, that are trying to better a system for all? And for a politician to make the remark that Palin made ("reload") gimme a break, no respect for her kind of "cavewoman" mentality either, this is the 2000's, those people need to get a grip.

It's one thing to disagree about something (though why on earth anyone in their right mind would disagree to everyone getting some form of health care is beyond me), it's quite another to cause "terror" among your own countrymen....it's pathetic and that's not a generalization, it's a fact.

 

[phillycrohns]

"The reason the costs are so high is that doctors, hospitals run so many tests to protect themselves from being sued."

Can't say I agree with you on this point, Fenway. Of all the doctors I have or have had, I have to practically beg for tests to be done. And from what someone in the health profession once told me, doctors reimbursement rates are somehow tied to how many tests they order (and how much said tests cost). Perhaps someone else in the forum knows for sure. Are physician insurance premiums too high and are there too many malpractice lawsuits? Sure. But I have read reports that state that malpractice reform isn't as big a problem as it is made out to be. As with anything, depending on your source (right versus left, demoractic versus republican, conservative versus liberal , etc.) you can always find numbers to support your point of view.

 

[katiesue1506]

Had an interesting talk in one of my classes today. Some questions we should ask ourselves now that healthcare is a right:

-What are our responsibilities? With rights comes responsibilities for having those rights... and example is yeah, we have free speech; but we can't scream fire in a crowded theatre. In the same idea, should we tax people for unhealthy lifestyles? Smoking is the number one risk factor for the top five killers in the US. Alcoholics that ruin their livers waste 400,000 dollars a transplant when there are more deserving people. Obesity is another risk factor. These are all controllable and preventable risk factors. I really liked the idea of taxing tanning beds too. This isn't saying that people can't live the lifestyles they want, they can... but they should pay more for it because they are perpetuating medical bills that don't necessarily need to be there.

Also, when will we stop paying for substandard care? There are at least 1,000 wrong sided procedures done a year. There are thousands and thousands of infections caught in post surgical sites due to poor hygiene with the staff in the hospitals. Instruments still get left in patients. Already sick patients catch respiratory and other infections from nurses not washing their hands.


These are just the things we talked about today in class. Food for thought. Debate was led by Steve Jackson of Baker and Daniels LLP.

 

[My Butt Hurts]

Not sure which of these points have been discussed already, but here is an article titled "10 ways the new health care bill may affect you".
http://finance.yahoo.com/family-hom...are-bill-may-affect-you?mod=family-love_money

 

[orchard archer]

Facts alway's cunfuse Ideology!
Look at (2003 Medicare part "D" wiki) Legislative History.
So Obvious The Funding would NEVER Be There long Term.
I love the Shift and Spend, Pretend no New Taxes Economics?
Time should Change and improve Healthcare reform for the better Hopefully?
(health Finder.gov) feb,4, 2010
Government Pays for more than HALF of U.S. HEALTHCARE COSTS.
As jobless americans lost private health insurance coverage and joined the Medicaid rolls during the recession, U.S. health spending jumped 5.7% to 2.5 trillion in 2009, government projections show.
That means that tax payers will foot the bill for more than half of U.S. health care expenditure by 2012 the reports authors said.
The CMS report does not reflect the impact of the proposed reform.
About 50% of U.S. Health Care is GOVERNMENT Healthcare NOW !!

 

[peregrine]

Canada's system very good

Hello,

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but I do want to say that I feel lucky to live in Canada. Our government funded health plan allows everyone to see a doctor regardless of income. Moreover, those with preexisting conditions get coverage, which was the one thing that made no sense in the American system before Obama's recent reform - if you have a preexisting condition like Crohn's disease you need coverage more than anyone!

Health care here is not rationed - but doctors will not perform unreasonable requests just to make you feel better psychologically either. For treatment to be considered, it has to have a reasonable chance of working. As for Canadian wait times, it is not a problem for most procedures.

Hopefully America will keep going down the path of Universal Health Care to the point where all citizens are have access to what is fundamental human right...

 

[Astra]

I've read all this thread today and I can only reiterate what creepy said, in a nutshell, I've been spoilt too with the NHS and I wouldn't change it for the world, we are the envy of the industralised, civilised modern world and when Nye Bevin stood there and promised us a service, free for all, he bloody meant it and 50 odd years later, we still have it, I can't say any more cos I won't get off my soapbox!
Ok, National Insurance is to go up in this weeks Budget, but so what! it's a small price to pay, and I, as a worker with contributions for over 30 years, have put my whack in!

 

[LOSTnut]

I have experiences with two systems: Germany and the US. Germany has universal coverage and I used it while I was younger and (duh) healthier. I needed the OB/GYN and GP back then and had a couple minor hospital stays, incl. the birth of my daughter. I don't remember much difference in care and result but I do remember the price difference. Germany 0 additional cost and here -- yeah, well..... I can itemize my tax return.

What ticked me off mostly was the fact that because of Crohn's I wanted to purchase short-term disability from Aflac but, guess what, they specifically excluded Crohn's. So, in the US system you get double whacked: 1) usually not enough paid vacation or sick days 2)no short term disability.

And, yes, while it might be a little overboard to approve the 2000+ page bill it is definitely high time to get something different going.

I also agree with some of the voices who say that it seems that mostly healthy people are against the reform bill. And, I know from Germany that you need the healthy populace to pay into the system to make it somewhat functional overall.I can tell you my daughter should see the OB/GYN badly because she is very irregular at 26, but she cannot affort health insurance and her work doesn't offer it and I cannot cover her either anymore. I hope down the years she doesn't need more expensive treatments and has to pay for not being able to take care of it now.
Another thing I realized here in the States is the fact that many people don't go to the doctor until it is way too late and then go to the waaaaay more expensive ER to get treatment. And, preventional care should and probably will become a regular thing here.

Just my two cents.

 

[Jennifer]

Universal Health Care is an extremely touchy subject. It's easy to understand both sides of the coin but being forced on one side because I have an incurable disease makes me feel sick to my stomach when I hear people saying no to universal health care. In my eyes, saying no is like saying I shouldn't be allowed to live or others like me or anyone who can't afford health insurance. Yes we could get Medi-cal or what have you for free, but is it quality care? No. People die everyday in the U.S. because they can't afford treatment or get treated too late. All I ask is that people who are against universal health care to please show some compassion towards their fellow man. Our lives are more important that your money.

 

[davidindc]

i'd been without insurance for several years when i got sick (couldn't afford it). The US law may or may not have helped me. i'm guessing it wouldn't see then me as poor enough.

But i became instantly ineligible for insurance.

i have to work for companies with group purchasing to be insured (i'd rather be self employed). And then i need to read their insurance contracts before i accept a job to know whether i'll be retroactively dropped when they realize i've crohn's. The US law
appears to end that outright.

Doctors routinely overbill and insurance routinely overpays. Both know that the cost to fight them exceeds the cost to pay them (they nickle and dime with small bills). The US law appears to do nothing about billing fraud.

My doctors don't work together. The US law doesn't appear to affect that.

i've yet to see any compelling argument that the US law will affect premium costs.

 

[DustyKat]

In response to Shadycat's original question:

It breaks my heart to read of members on this board foregoing treatment because they are uninsured or of insurance companies denying prescribed treatment in favour of something cheaper. I don't know how I would cope if Roo was ever in this situation. I think it is very difficult for those of us that have universal healthcare to understand how this situation can be allowed to exist.

I have a son(16) who over his lifetime has had 2 elective surgeries, inguinal hernia and enlarged turbinates. On both occasions we went public and waited less than 3 weeks. These were day surgery and cost nothing.

Roo had 2 admissions to hospital during her diagnosis period. The first admission was for 4 days and included CT scan, ultrasound, IV, meds, etc and cost nothing.
Second admission was for 7 days and involved her surgery - resection, 2 days in ICU, IV x 2, drains x 2, NG tube, catheter, oxygen, blood tests and so on. It cost nothing.

Her on going bloods cost nothing and you walk in, no appointment necessary. Her most costly medication is $35.00 and lasts 3 months. The GP and specialist bulk bill so no cost is incurred.

For pensioners, their scripts are about $4.50 each and when they reach a certain amount in a calendar year, can't remember what it is, they are free. Medical treatment is free.

Of course we pay for this through our taxes but it is something I am happy to contribute to along with public education, public transport, communications and law and order. As others have stated, no system is perfect but I am more than happy with mine.

 

[kenny]

hi mom of Roo:

I think the vast majority of us who enjoy a public health system feel the same way. Some people would like to have the opportunity to buy their way ahead of others I think, but i'm pretty sure they are undervaluing what they do have

 

[I Love Lamp]

I have been watching quite a bit of the American coverage of the health care debate and cant believe how scared some people are of the idea of having something more comprehensive.
The NHS rules! so u have to wait at times but its free! Something about the involvement of business at the frontline of healthcare scares me. Just because you have a new system does not mean your a Socialist country! Healthcare does not need business!

 

[Rebecca85]

If people want to pay to 'jump the queue' and go private, that's fine by me. One less person in front of me in the queue, a little more money left to treat me If we didn't have private healthcare as well in the uk, there probably wouldn't be so many docs wanting to come here to train and work, so the NHS would have more patients and proportionately less staff.