Hospital again

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After a weekend of not being able to keep ng tube down an and previous elevated labs an mre was ordered for tues. Wednesday jan 29th we were admitted again. My son had lost 6 lbs in short time frame too. They put in pic line and he's been on tpn. We will be here til monday feb 3rd. Original plan was to go home with tpn for a week. Then back in for g tube placement and surgeon also look at terminal ileum. As you know if you've seen my other posts, i think he doesnt have TI symptoms. He only cramps when he stools and only vomits with hard painful cramps. But what do i know. I'm happy if it brings brian relief to remove ti. Surgeon stopped by end of day Friday. He spent about an hour with us. Wanted brians whole crohns life story. He had lots of questions. After he went over what he thinks he sees on mre. He said his TI is insignificant but rectum and sigmoid colon are like a lead pipe. Lots of thickening. I said, scarring? He said, oh yeah!! He said the small bowel loops look normal. He said if ti was scarred or narrowed those loops or at least right next to TI would be enlarged due to backup. Flow is good. He said brians issue in rectum is risky surgery. Because tissue planes are not there to easily cut thru (his will be like pages in a book with glue on them) he wont be able to see important things not to cut. Excuse the spelling but uratal, semen vesicles,and prostate. The inflammation will make tissue white and everything will bleed. He said big risk of leakage into pelvic cavity. He would need to remove sigmoid colon,rectum and part of descending. Attach that to rectal stub. He said this surgery is usually needed in rectal cancer patients and their tissue is ok. He doenst want to do g tube now cause he thinks the vomit is due to pain not gag reflex or nausea or ti. He asked if brian could live the way he is...put up with it. Brian told him how his life is at stand still. Cant do sports or play etc. And the pain is always there which affects his nutrition cause it hurts to even eat een. He wants us to go home and bowel rest. Then have him eat and see what happens. I asked him, what do you think will happen. He said, i think the same thing will happen. I said thats what weve been doing for two years! He's reluctant to do the surgery. I'm terrified now. He said, if it was successful brian would feel great. I was thinking last night, what if we do bowel rest then instead of having him eat and watch him decline again, take another look at rectum. Maybe some of the thickening isnt scarring but inflammation. Maybe surgery would be easier then. Fyi, mayo gi has been all about TI. We've asked and asked about stelera. He said he told us thats not avail yet. Hmmmm. I'm scared. Any knowledge from you all? Thanks
 
Big hugs. I don't have much I can say in the way of suggestion but wanted to send my support. I hope you all are out on Monday with a good course of action. Our hope is to be out and home from the hospital too. Sending you support!
 
Hugs
Can you take him to Boston or chop ?
Cincy has a world Renowned pediatric colorectal surgeons .

At least email them and ask for a phone consult?
Maybe getting a second/third opinon especially with recital surgery ...
It has been mentioned for DS more than once but that was for his inflamed prolapse .
If we ever decide to go with recital surgery - I would take him to Cincy for a consult and possible the surgery .


Never easy
Wishing you fast healing .

Have you pm izzi's mom about tacro ?
 
I'll page in QueenGothel. She got her second opinion from Cincy for Rowan.

Before this mre when was his last scan of the rectum area? Was it normal then?
 
Time to fight, right!

So few kids are on Stelara that it is pretty easy for one doc to contact another about how it is going. All I have to do is tell our GI doc the city of someone on here that is using Setlara and he knows who I am talking about.

True it isn't approved for Crohn's yet. But, Stelara is available and more and more insurance companies are approving it.

Praying for you both.
Cheryl VT
 
Brian's mom,
So sorry that you & Brian are going through all of this. Big hugs and prayers coming your way. Know that you are doing a great job (even when you are scared for him and unsure of what decision is the right one) You will be able to do what is best for him each step of the way. We are all here for you...even if you just need to vent!!
 
Oh my goodness! Big hugs:ghug: For you and our rock star:headbang:

This is a huge decision and you owe it to yourself to cross every option and road off the list. I second MLP's suggestion of going straight to the best of the best. Also second the fight to get approval for other drugs. Sure it isn't approved in general but this is not your run of the mill case we are talking about. He is special...we owe it to the kid to do everything we can before we start slicing him with no idea of how things will turn out.

I will be praying for you both!
 
Many hugs. It seems you are in a very hard place right now.

If the problems in the colon are due to scarring no amount of drugs will make a difference. And that is something I would have thought they could determine fairly easily through scopes and biopsies. Does the GI concur that the rectum through descending colon is heavily scarred?

If so then I think you should take courage in hand and explore the surgery option carefully with as good a 2nd or 3rd opinion as you can get - Cincy or CHOP sound promising. I don't know about connecting at the stump. I am under the impression that should not be done in CDers due to the risk of deterioration of the stump due to CD but I am certainly no expert.

Besides bowel rest via TPN it is possible to do a temporary diversion of stool from the colon. Maybe you could ask the docs if there would be any diagnostic or treatment value in trying that. Diagnostically it might clarify the TI vs colon debate. Treatment wise it will definitely rest his colon and hopefully clarify whether there's any inflammation there or if it's all really scarred.

I do know I've read many stories of kids (mostly UCers but CDers too) who have gotten their lives back after they had their colon removed. We can actually live pretty well without a colon.

I'm so sorry he is so miserable. But it sounds like you got a surgeon who is really willing to take the time to figure things out and who knows his limits - things you don't always find in a surgeon. Hopefully you are on the right track to finding answers that help.
 
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So sorry your family and Brian have to go through all this. I can only offer you support and prayers.
Second opinions are good but sometimes leave you even more confused especially with Crohns.
 
{MEGA HUGS} to you and your lad Kathy.

I am so, so sorry that you are having to deal with this. :(

I too agree with getting at least one more opinion as I think it is imperative that you know -how much is scar tissue
-how much is inflammation.

As your current consultant has already expressed concerns about the degree of difficulty involved with the surgery, then as mlp has suggested, it may be best to head to a top paediatric colorectal surgeon.

If there is a consensus that inflammation is also playing a role in this then I can well understand the desire to try something else first and judge just how much impact the inflammation was having on the problem. I hope Stelara is on the table if the inflammation course is taken.
Did you happen to ask about a temporary stoma Kathy? I can well understand if didn’t come up hun. :ghug: The only thing to what watch for if this is an option is diversion colitis, which in turn can cause inflammation due to faecal matter not passing over the defunctionalised colon. Ugh!

Even if the surgeon is suggesting that going home and trying bowel rest will fail I can see where he is coming from Kathy. I can well remember the Crohn’s specialist saying to me in regard to Matt’s surgery…You know that Tony (the colorectal surgeon) will hate doing this. When I asked why he said…he is a wonderful surgeon and the outcome will be the best possible for Matt but he has no joy in operating on a young man such as your son, it saddens him that it is needed. In the scheme of things Matt’s surgery was ‘routine’ and he was older than Brian, so I can why the hesitancy to jump right in is there, :ghug: resection surgery is forever.

Thinking of you both. :heart:

Dusty. xxx
 
I don't have any great advice, just wanted to send all my best. Hope you manage to find a solution you are happy with and that works well.
 
No advice but sending hugs. You and Brian and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. Brian is such a trooper, I'm always so impressed by how mature he is when I read your posts!:ghug:
 
No advice you have already been given some great advice and lots to think about. Just wanted to send massive hugs!
 
I'm so sorry your son was admitted again and going through all this. Thoughts and prayers are with you.
 
I'm so sorry that both of you are going through this! I know this is going to be one of those difficult weekends. Take care of yourself too. Make sure you take meal breaks and go for little walks.

First, you are doing a great job! It isn't easy to hold it together when you are so worried and there isn't a clear path to follow.

Second, if gut rest is going to give the docs a better idea of what is going on and how much of the bowel/colon is involved, then it is worth doing. Remember that Crohn's is a slow moving disease. Taking the time to have more information, better information, eliminates some of the guess work and can help bring peace to the decision making process.

Since Brian has already been through the TPN/gut rest routine, I'm sure he is not excited about the prospect of doing it again. I posed the question to Gus. He said to tell Brian to hang in there and that if he was in Brian's shoes, he would hate it, but he would do the gut rest if it meant he could keep his colon.

Third, postponement of the g-tube is minor compared to everything else. The TPN will take care of the nutrition. How does Brian do with the NG tube normally?

You'll be in my thoughts and prayers this weekend.
Hugs to you both.
Cheryl VT
 
I'm sorry, I don't have any advice either... just sending hugs and I'm just so sorry Brian hasn't found relief yet. Thinking of you! :ghug:
 
I did ask about the temporary ostomy...he didn't say if that was in plan or not. The surgeon was changing his plan as he talked to us- the original TI plan-he said would have more talks after 2 weeks of bowel rest. The eat and see if he crashes again isnt going to happen anymore. They just want things to heal andyt after 2 weeks may add clear liquids. One funny thing Brian said: "if i get to eat to see what happens can it be bacon?"- silly boy
 
WTG Brian!
BaconDance.gif


Sending loads of luck and healing thoughts your way Kathy. I hope you have clear answers after the two weeks and they are for the positive. :ghug:

Dusty. xxx
 
I did ask about the temporary ostomy...he didn't say if that was in plan or not. The surgeon was changing his plan as he talked to us- the original TI plan-he said would have more talks after 2 weeks of bowel rest. The eat and see if he crashes again isnt going to happen anymore. They just want things to heal andyt after 2 weeks may add clear liquids. One funny thing Brian said: "if i get to eat to see what happens can it be bacon?"- silly boy

A temp ostomy would be a great option!

Brian and Gus could be twins! He loves bacon too! Whenever he has been completely "off-food," he will refuse all clears and low residue foods. He would rather wait it out and get bacon! :ylol:
 
How does Brian like to pass the time while he is in the hospital? Gus likes gigantic Lego sets (2000+ pieces). He builds them pretty fast, but l-o-v-e-s the attention from the nurses at his Lego prowess. Gus is also a big reader, so we usually cart about 50 pounds of books along for the ride too.
 
Kathy,
So sorry you are going through this! My internet was giving issues yesterday so I wasn't able to get online. I highly recommend going for another opinion. If your surgeon is saying this is a difficult surgery then in my opinion he is hinting that you need another opinion. I think Cincinnati or chop is where to go. I do not recommend Boston. I have heard mixed things about them. Bowel rest is a good idea. Him going home and just eating again is silly as it is not going to solve anything.
 
I just wanted to say that we are all thinking about you guys and hope things will get figured out soon.Must be really frustrating that the doctors don't have a real plan on what to do now.I'm glad they changed their mind about going home and introduce food again after bowelrest and "see what happens".I think you know now what will happen.Without a change in the treatmentplan, it will just get back to where it was,I assume.Brian seems like such a great guy.And tough as nails,too.Keep in mind,what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.There must be something in bacon that makes kids love it.Bacon is the first thing on Max's mind when we are in the hospital.
 
Brian and Badger are two of a kind. We rarely have bacon for overall health reasons so I buy it as a holiday treat or for birthdays only. He could eat a whole package himself I think!

Hoping the gut rest is restful in every way. Sounds like you could all use a break.
 
Lots of healing thoughts being sent your way. Yep, Jack is a huge bacon fan as well. When we go out to breakfast (special ocassions) he always gets french toast and 2 orders of bacon :0
 
Big hugs... May you find answers soon. Scary being in there again I know but you all will come thru to the other side stronger. Sending good wishes to you all!
 
We came home on Feb 3rd. Just learning the whole TPN thing. He's not feeling any pain anymore. And so far its gone ok. My anxiety level.... well, I'm trying to keep that in check. Just when I think I got a handle on that... last night we got him all hooked up. Transferring the tpn bag to the back pack. The clamp the pharmacist puts on comes open and tpn fluid fills the back pack!! We clamped the line and disconnected the line from brian's port. We had to start all over again with a new bag!! So we got him hooked up again at 10pm... UGH! On call lady said this is really rare! Then why with us!!!! I also have been really surprised how heavy the tpn bag is!
 
What a night! Sorry you had to go through that.

Yes, the TPN bags are heavy. It's like hummingbird food, mostly sugars (not the bad kind). Just think about how heavy a bag of sugar is for it's size. :)

It will get better. The first week really is the hardest. By week two I had a rhythm down. I'd "pull" everything I needed for a 24hr period and put it into a gallon ziplock bag. That way I would know I used the right amount of sailene, heparin, alcohol wipes, meds, vitamins, etc... Plus, if I put half into a morning bag and half into an evening bag, then my husband could load the TPN if I wasn't home.

Note: Leg warmers (yes you can still find them...I found some at the 99 cents store) make great PICC line covers to protect/hide the tubing if he goes out. You can also get some knee length socks (will have to be girls to be long enough) and cut off the foot part. Also, here is a link for a shower cover: http://store.drycorp.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=33

Super Mega Hugs to both of you! Again...take heart, it is going to get better!!
 
Glad you made it home. And happy to know Brian isn't feeling any pain at the moment and he continues to improve.
Hopefully, all of this will work and you will have some answers soon.
 
Sounds like things are looking up.What's the plan after this though? Does he get "unplugged" before school so he can go to school without the bag.We did and as soon as he got home we hooked back up.He really enjoyed that freedom though.He was unable to do gym,for the chance of getting caught.Otherwise Max liked showing the other kids his arm and talking about it.I was also surprise how heavy the TPN bags were.We did not having the problem with the clamp.At first I was super nervous about hooking up And was scared that I would mess up,but after a while it just becomes part of the daily routine.How is it going with the no eating part? That was a really tough on for us.
 
Brian has been doing the "no eating" for a long time. So its hard but what do you do! He's not going to school. Its cold and flu season and he has a possible surgery date of feb 26th. Doctors don't want him to be exposed to anything. So the school has hooked up a laptop and he skypes in.
 
That sounds awesome!!! It is great that his school can offer a laptop and skype!!! Keep us posted on that. I hope Brian is successful with "Skype School."
 
I really hope that surgery will be the answer to all of Brian's problems, so you all can get back to living a normal life again.
 
Wow sounds like your school district is up to when it comes to technology . Hope it goes well and Brian is able to keep up with his class.
 
Hi Brian's Mom,
We are in the same boat...LJ hasn't been in school in over a month & I'm not sure when we will make it back. If he needs help Khan Academy has tons of tutorials and the math is great! And better yet it's free!
 
It is sad to hear when your child admitted. I had the same cases last year and my boy was admitted more than 6 times. It’s killing me when I heard him screaming for help when nurse came to get a blood sample at 6am and every 6 hourly. Later when we saw him wearing the OT dress, it breaks my heart and I couldn’t describe how sad am I during that time. It’s totally unbearable.

I hope you will be strong and be patience. No matter what, our children will be more upset if we shed our tears. Take care yourself coz I know it’s hard to take our meal and look happy.
 

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Glad you're home. TPN is hard work and it sure takes up a lot of room in the frig doesn't it? When they told me Badger might come home on TPN I had visions of buying a 2nd frig.

Sorry things are still so hard but glad to hear he's not in pain for now. Skype is cool. Badger is getting ready to go back after 7 weeks out and I'm a bit worried that it's going to be a disaster with a couple of the teachers - the ones who gave us virtually no work for him to do but are known to be inflexible.

I hope you have an IEP for Brian. We have one for Badger and it may be helpful with this situation. Hard to say.

All the best
 
Sorry for some reason the forum doesn't tell me when I am tagged.

I hope Brian is doing better. The Colorectal surgeon I was told was the best there is named Daniel von Allmen, he was whom did our second opinion. He was very nice and very knowledgable, especially with hand sewn rectum anastamosis. Prior to the second opinion, and before one of our previous surgeries, I was stressed to the max, I called the Pediatric Surgery Clinic in Cincy and told the nurse the history and how complicated our case was and she had a Dr. Frischer call me back, he is another one of the surgeons there, he spent a good hour on the phone with me going over her case and what yhe plan was. The world renown surgeon is Dr. Péna but I do not think he still does surgery but is the director. Regardless his experience is not IBD., all the surgeon there are excellent and the staff is enormous. When we had our second opinion we met with GI as well we saw Dr. Denson and he was very thorough they were all very prompt and had every detail of her history perfect.

In the end we did the surgery here in Michigan, their surgeons endorsed our surgeon we were using and told me he has done surgery with him and was very skilled and able. I felt a lot better about it.

Highly recommend them. Hope this helps you.
 
Sorry I've been gone for awhile. I need to check in on everyone else. Here's what's been going on with us:
TPN is going good. We've gotten used to it. The GI at Mayo disagrees with the surgeon's plan here. He said taking out the rectum/sigmoid colon and descending colon is not a common surgery in crohns. And way too risky for complications. Our KC GI has deferred us to Mayo 100%. So our new plan is to have a surgeon up there do laproscopic surgery to look at everything. And divert "Upstream" to let everything downstream heal. (temporary Colostomy bag). Brian is on board! He wants some kind of resolution. Then they will "Fight another day" and when everything is cooled off they can see what needs to be done in there. He said the surgeon up there is the 'Maestro' of colorectal surgery. During this time Dr Stephens and Dr Fabian will decide what to do about his meds he's on. It appears Cimzia isn't getting it done. He wants to make no changes to that right now.
The problem we're facing right now is coordinating with the colorectal surgeon. His schedule is very full. So it looks like March 12th is a consult with him and GI, then it may possibly be several weeks after that for the colestomy bag surgery. Frustrating. We are hoping he'll fit us in while we're there.. but no guarantees.
 
Was just thinking about you and Brian last night... :)

I'm sooo glad you have a solid plan in place! Wish it didn't involve a colostomy bag and would move a bit quicker but... certainly sounds like all the drs are on board and in agreement and you/Brian are really moving closer to remission!!! :)

:ghug: :ghug:
 
Wow! It's very difficult when the docs don't agree and all sides make arguments that seem like they will work. I'm glad to hear that they are not moving ahead with the drastic colon removal. I'll be praying that resting the lower gut will solve the problem and that the "upstream diversion" won't have to be in place too long.

When do they plan to do the surgery? How long do they think it will take to achieve the healing they are looking for? Will Brian return to his normal schedule or home school the rest of the year?

Take care.
Cheryl VT
 
Not sure on the surgery date. His scheduling nurse said hes books several weeks after march 12th. But added that if at our consult he feels its important enough he'll fit us in... i told Brian to cry at the consult! ! My biggest hope is that while we're waiting for march 12th... and on tpn the bowel rests and we can skip the colostomy bag. Go right to the see whats causing problem surgery. But gi said he wanted at least 6 months of the colostomy bag part...one can dream...but i've found that this disease doesn't grant wishes
 
A few tears and use of puppy dog eyes ought to help convince the surgeon to move things up!
Sending patience and positive thoughts your way!
 
I wish nothing but the best for you guys.How is Brian feeling these days?Stomachaches at all?blood in stool?"normal"poops?
 
Lab results back. SED 58. CRP 2.7. Hemb 10... i gues even TPN can't get his inflammation to budge. Our GI is disappointed mayo surgeon may just consult on march 12th and surgery possibly out a few weeks from that. Maybe latest labs will put us as priority. Wish i knew what they were going to do. Hard to plan. My college son will be home for spring break the 14th. ..
 
Sorry the TPN is not working as well as hoped. Sending loads of hugs and support your way and hope everything else moves along quickly so you can get a plan in place.
 
Feeling your worry and frustration.Just keep in mind that you are doing everything you can and you are being a great mom just doing whatever it takes.
 
Sending mega loads of squishy hugs your way Kathy. :ghug:

What are the inflammatory markers doing…have they reduced to that level, remained unchanged or increased since commencing TPN?

The reason I ask is that I can see two scenarios depending on what the markers are doing.

1. If the markers have reduced and stayed in a pretty stable holding pattern then the surgeon may be happy with how things are going and wish to wait as has been implied. A reduction in numbers may be playing into the surgeon’s hands in that TPN will put Brian in a far better physical state for surgery, particularly from the protein point of view, and it will indicate that acute inflammation is being dealt with so he will only be dealing with chronic inflammation when he does operate and this is a much more desirable state to be in. Only dealing with chronic inflammation means a greater chance of bowel sparing surgery.
Matt was in this situation when he needed surgery and we waited three months for this very reason. We were initially dealing with a CRP of 360 (36 in US values) and an ESR in the 40’s. CRP has always been Matt’s most reliable indicator, he is very sensitive to it. Once he was stabilised on treatment it brought his markers down to, IIRC, an ESR of around 25 and a CRP that bounced between 25-60 (2.5-6.0) for much of the 3 months.

2. If the markers are unchanged or have increased then i would imagine the surgeon will schedule sooner rather than later.

Dusty. xxx
 
I agree with Dusty.

Don't dispair! TPN is difficult, but he really hasn't been on it for very long (relatively speaking). If the markers have plateaued and/or reduced (even a little), then progress is being made.

Perhaps it will help to think of it this way...it took many months for his inflammation to reach these levels, it is going to take time for the body to stop-repair-heal-report.

HUGS!
Cheryl VT
 
Kathy,
I am happy to hear you guys are going to Mayo clinic. It really sounds like you will be in good hands there. We may end up there as well. Ass the others said it just may take more time on the TPN. Hopefully things will start to improve.s ending hugs!
 
The numbers were up... but just slightly. I was just hoping they'd have gone down...even just slightly! I agree that the tpn will help his overall state. Its just a pain. Hard to just be a kid hooked to tpn.
 
Is he on TPN 24/7 or just overnight?

Gus was able to run his TPN overnight and he was "free" to be his "normal" self the rest of the day.

Cheryl VT
 
He's off 6 hrs- 2pm to 8pm
Brian starts to feel really hungry around 6pm. He doesnt mention it any other time of day. I also don't fill the house with smells during the day.
 

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