Immune system boost

[Lam123]

Hi Everyone,
Happy Holidays! Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy.
I have a question about immune system. What do you take or what do you do to boost your immune system? Vitamins? Sleep? Food?
I have started doing some research on this, just want my immune system as strong as I can get it through these crazy times.

 

[my little penguin]

The theory is
Your immune system is already above average (hence noted in everyday life so it attacks itself - in this case the gut )
The drugs taken to treat crohns lower reduce the immune system so it’s less likely to Attack
this does not make you more likely to catch a normal infection
But does make you more likely to have a secondary opportunistic infection after catching something

Ds Gi strongly suggested - vitamin D and vitamin C daily
Otherwise he social distances , wears n95 masks when out at the doctors etc…

 

[Bufford]

Vitamin D, take one each morning, with a good multivitamin. I like the chewable gummy vitamins, the body is better at absorbing these then the hard tablets. One theory is that our immune system is overactive, but there is evidence that Chrons is caused by a bacterial infection. If it is which I believe, then the immune system needs all the help it can get. Until the science is settled Chrons remains without a cure.

 

[Lam123]

Vitamin D, take one each morning, with a good multivitamin. I like the chewable gummy vitamins, the body is better at absorbing these then the hard tablets. One theory is that our immune system is overactive, but there is evidence that Chrons is caused by a bacterial infection. If it is which I believe, then the immune system needs all the help it can get. Until the science is settled Chrons remains without a cure.

How much vitamin d?

 

[James02]

1,000 IU to 5,000 IU / day. You may want to see [Therapeutic effect of vitamin d supplementation in a pilot study of Crohn's patients]
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23594800/

 

[kiny]

Most Western Crohn's disease patients suffer from a type of primary immunodeficiency.

We know this from studies by Anthony Segal. If you challenge the skin of a crohn's disease patient with E Coli, they clear these bacteria much slower than controls.

We also know this from genetic studies, anomalies in genes that predisposes one to crohn's disease like NOD2 and ATG16L1, involve recognition and clearance of intracellular bacteria.

This all points to an innate immunodeficiency.

A vitamin essential to regulating innate immunity is Vitamin D. Vitamin D stimulates NOD2 expression. In fact inflammation in biopsy tissue from crohn's disease patients is related to VDR expression.

So it seems logical to make sure that people with crohn's disease have enough vitamin D.

 

[kiny]

One could ask if the problem is an innate immunodeficiency in crohn's disease, which leads to a lack of bacterial clearance, why don't we stimulate the innate immune system.

This has actually been tried in crohn's disease patients, with GM-CSF. It tells stem cells to make monocytes, those circulating monocytes then migrate into tissue, especially intestinal tissue, where they become macrophages.

Not enough crohn's disease patient got into remission so no follow up study was done.

Likely just having more circulating monocytes is not enough to overcome macrophage incompetence.

 

[kiny]

Here is that study where GM-CSF was used to stimulate the immune system of crohn's disease patients. The fact there was improvement in 55% of patients and not a single patient worsened, shot the "overreactive immune system" idea to pieces and gave credence to the immunodeficiency theory.

It also confirmed what Anthony Segal and Behr argued, that innate immunodeficiences resulting in a lack of bacterial clearance are behind the chronic inflammation in crohn's disease patients.

An open-labelled study of granulocyte colony-stimulating factor in the treatment of active Crohn's disease

Background: Immunodeficiency syndromes associated with a Crohn's-like illness suggest innate immune defects may lead to Crohn's disease. Anecdotal cases using haemopoietic colony-stimulating factors report improvement in intestinal disease associated with these syndromes.

Aim: To test the safety and efficacy of recombinant human granulocyte colony-stimulating factor in active Crohn's disease.

Methods: In an open-labelled 12-week trial, patients with a Crohn's Disease Activity Index between 220 and 450 were treated with recombinant human granulocyte colony-stimulating factor (filgrastim, Neupogen). Concomitant immunosuppressants were prohibited except prednisone < or =20 mg/day. Patient's received recombinant human granulocyte colony-stimulating factor 300 mcg daily subcutaneously adjusted to achieve an absolute neutrophil count between 25 and 35 x 10(9)/L.

Results: Twenty patients were enrolled with a mean initial Crohn's Disease Activity Index of 307 (range: 234-428). Fifteen patients (75%) completed 8 weeks; 13 patients (65%) completed 12 weeks with the mean Crohn's Disease Activity Index for patients continuing through those times of 196 (range: 36-343) and 162 (range: 20-308), respectively. At week 12, 11 patients (55%) demonstrated a decrease of at least 70 points; five (25%) achieved a sustained remission. The mean decrease was statistically significant at each assessment time-point. Three of four patients with fistulae had a positive response. Adverse effects included bone pain, mostly mild resolving with continued treatment. One patient was hospitalized with a viral-like syndrome but it is uncertain if this was treatment related.

Conclusion: Recombinant human granulocyte colony-stimulating factor is safe and potentially effective therapy for active Crohn's disease.

 

[Pangolin]

That GM-CSF paper is interesting but not *that* impressive. It's a small uncontrolled trial, and CDAI is a poor measure. Why was that never followed up on? Did the people working on it just decide the results weren't impressive?

 

[kiny]

Simply not enough people remained in remission.

But the nature of GM-CSF makes it controversial, it acts as an immunostimulator. The idea of promoting circulating blood monocytes in crohn's disease is controversial, lots of doctors do not view crohn's as an immunodefficiency.

In mouse models that mimmick certain diseases, they experiment with actively blocking GM-CSF instead.

 

[Bufford]

How much vitamin d?

I take 1, 1,000 IU tablet Vitamin D, one after breakfast along with a multi vitamin, and a 1000 mcg biotin tablet.

 

[Karinbe]

Here is that study where GM-CSF was used to stimulate the immune system of crohn's disease patients. The fact there was improvement in 55% of patients and not a single patient worsened, shot the "overreactive immune system" idea to pieces and gave credence to the immunodeficiency theory.

It also confirmed what Anthony Segal and Behr argued, that innate immunodeficiences resulting in a lack of bacterial clearance are behind the chronic inflammation in crohn's disease patients.

Very interesting. I have the feeling that Western doctors do not understand this disease well. All focus is on relieving the symptoms and not the root cause.. This will take too long before we got the "cure". For this reason I support all alternative studies like MAP..

There should be a reason why our immune system is lacking or is overactive.. and this is not (only) our genes.

 

[Carabop]

I believe most western doctors do not want to find a “cure”. There’s no money in a cure. I do applaud the doctors that a actually trying to help us though.

 

[Bufford]

I fully believe that Western medicine follows the money. Why then would some of these biologics cost in terms of thousands of dollars per dose when they have been around for this long. Why does western medicine ignore all the other possible causes and only focus on immuno suppressants and nothing else. Its very frustrating as a patient having to deal with a system like this.

 

[Carabop]

I whole heartedly agree Bufford.

 

[Kannassee]

How do the Eastern Doctors/ Eastern medicine treat the disease? Are there any publications / medical studies available??

 

[Bufford]

From what I have read on the subject, inflammatory bowel disease is more prevalent in western countries than those found in the east. Part of the reasons are diet and lifestyle. Western diets have a lot of processed foods, while eastern diets contain a range of foods and seasonings that lend well to a healthy dietary tract. Lifestyle in the west is faster and more stressful.

 

[Soryan]

How do the Eastern Doctors/ Eastern medicine treat the disease? Are there any publications / medical studies available??

I live in Hong Kong (a more westernised part of China I presume?). IBD prevalence here has up 6-fold since 1990s. Doctors here also follow the latest treatment protocols and use biologics / immunosuppressants heavily in a top-down manner. I was unfortunately misdiagnosed by my first GI (an old guy) because there were simply no reported cases of IBD in my city when he was trained 30 yr ago so he wasn't alert to my symptoms at all, costed me several strictures and fistulas...

In contrast, when we go through theories of traditional Chinese medicine, the advice to tame autoimmune overdrive would be to "boost" instead of "suppress" our immune system, making it back to a "balanced state". Know this doesn't sound very scientific but one example I can think of is when you get acne or aphthae after sleep deprivation, the thing to do is not put some cream on it but to get a good night sleep and plenty of fluid.

Also interestingly, ancient Chineses deployed this FMT concept to restore gut flora since 4th century:

The use of fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT) was first described in China in the 4th century by Ge Hong when "yellow soup," a fecal slurry, was administered for the treatment of severe food poisoning and diarrhea, a practice that continued for centuries.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30384951/