Problems with employer - please help

[Crohnie78]

I have been diagnosed with crohns disease for 11 years and with my current employer 5 years.
They have started to become very strict on sickness absence and now I am having problems.
I have been told that I am only allowed 4 days sick absence in a rolling 12 month period for crohns related illness, any more than this and I will get oral warnings, written warning and dismissal. This is further complicated by the occupational health team telling senior managers that if I was to have a regular stomach upset I would definately know if the stomach upset was as a result of my crohns, the medication I'm on (Mesalazine, Azathioprine and prednisolone) or just a regular stomach upset.

What I am hoping to get from this post is fellow crohns disease sufferers opinions and views on this as managers and occupational health "professionals" are not living with this condition.
Should I know if an illness was as a result of my crohns, the meds or just a regular illness?
Is 4 days sick absence in a rolling 12 month period enough for a sufferer of crohns disease?

Any help/advice/opinions would be appreciated xxx

 

[littlemissh]

Have you enquired about whether you fall under the disability discrimination act? Are you from the UK?

 

[Guest]

i totally commiserate - my partner has had 3 genuine sick days in the past few months, literally was unable to drive to work those days with a migraine, & a back injury, and he's now on the verbal warning list for too much sick leave in a rolling year

i don't know if there's much you can do, to be honest... they have you by the short & curlies because if that's the company terms, then as an employee you have agreed to them.. and these days there are so many 'replacement employees', the care & understanding for staff has disappeared in many companies..

if you're in the UK, you could telephone DIAL (Disability Advice Line) and see what their advice is... other than that i wouldn't know what to advise... sorry

 

[beth]

You can't put ndays down to an illness like Crohn's! Sounds like you are in the UK therefore I would recommend talking the citizens advice burea (CAB or whatever they are called today).

If your attendance is so poor, through no fault of your own, that you are unable to do the job I would be looking either for a negotiated settlement, or them to sack you so you can get unemployment benefit. But CAB will be best for advice me thinks.

 

[Crohnie78]

Yes I am in the UK
My employer is aware my illness is covered by the DDA but it doesnt seem to be making any difference.

 

[Rebecca85]

Are you a member of a trade union, contact them and let them know what is happening. If not, go to the CAB.

As for knowing if an illness is Crohn's, meds or virus, I would guess if you have been on the meds a while with no problems, you are unlikely to suddenly start getting an upset stomach from them. As for Crohn's versus a virus, I figure you have a good idea what your normal symptoms are. In my case, abdominal pain is my main symptom, and my BMs can be porridge-like. So if I suddenly had watery diarrhoea and vomiting, I'd figure that was more likely a virus.

 

[xoxava]

I'm sorry I don't have much advice for you but I just went through a similar situation. I got fired from my job when my boss knew about my crohns. It sucks and its unfair but today in time I don't think they really give a crap about how we feel

 

[Crohnie78]

I figured the same asyou Rebecca about the meds and being able to tell the disease/meds side effects from any other illness.
My union rep has been involved every step of the way. It sucks as they knew before the employed me I had this condition and still took me on (because I ticked a box for them as an equal opportunities employer) and they have gone from being okay with sick absences to being very strict. 4 days sick in a year for this illness is not good enough and their occupational health people are a complete waste of time.
I've kind of given up, they will be referring me to the decision maker next week for dismissal and there is nothing I can do about it!
I had better get job hunting :0(

 

[Rebecca85]

If they do dismiss you I would be tempted to sue for unfair dismissal! You should get legal aid through your union so cost wouldn't be a problem (or try a no win no fee place). But limiting you to 4 days a year sick is not a reasonable accomodation in my book! I mean, if you're ill you're ill, nowt you can do about it, maybe insisting that you get documentation/sick notes for any absences would be fairer? (as a guideline, my employers allow all employees 10 days sick in rolling 2 years, after that it's occupational health consultants or disciplinary charges. Even though I am at 20 days this last year alone, I have not been called up on disciplinary charges or anything).

 

[Crohnie78]

Having Crohns is bad enough without being sacked from work because off it too. In the past they have been reasonable with sick absences but its all change now.
I noticed near your username you are from Nottinhgam - me too!

 

[bushydougie]

One more place to try for advice is NACC. They have a variety of advisors at different times of the day to help with different aspects of having IBD andthey advise on work and benefits. I'd give them a ring. They've always been helpful when I've contacted them both by phone and by email
http://www.nacc.org.uk/content/home.asp#top

I don't know much about the law surrounding this but the way you are being treated does not sound right especially if they knew about your diagnosis before they employed you.
I hope you get some good advice. Let us know how it goes

 

[Crohnie78]

Thank you everyone for you help, advice and support I will keep you all posted and if you hear of any jobs with sympathetic and supportive employers in Nottingham let me know 

 

[Clare]

I have recently had a very similar problem with my boss, I live in the uk too. My boss was trying to get me fired for not being able to come into work at 9am everyday (which is not a business requirement, just his idea of how to manage people), he also started harassing me in various different ways, so I had no alternative to get advise. My union helped me to make a harassment claim under the dda (and I don't have a fully confirmed case of crohn's yet, so my diagnosis is just severe ibs). My claim was upheld and he was found to be harassing and discriminating against me because of my illness. Now they are being very careful to let me work from home and with flexible hours. It is a good way of delivering your mandate, although a pain whenn you are sick you still have to work, better then nothing though. I understand that they need me to do a job and if I can't do that then whats the point of them paying me. However, they can't sack you for being sick if it is long term or a disability. If they could there would be far more unemployed and on the dole, just think of all the cancer patients and other serious illnesses there are around. Basically if your employer knows about your illness and you are full and frank about how it affects you, then if they impose a new rule they know you will not be able to comply with because of your illness or symptoms, then that is discrimination under the dd act, ie illegal. Don't let them do that, they will if you let them. Get a union rep or some legal advise.

 

[Crohnie78]

Hi Clare, thank you for your reply.
My issue with it is I have been there had had a few pretty severe flare ups in that time and although they have never fully "supported" my illness (even though they took me on when I had declared my crohns as my dissability on my application form) in the past they have not "disciplined" me for having time off due to it. Now my condition is more good days than bad days they have decided I am only allowed 4 days sick for crohns in a rolling 12 month period (I know, ridiculous right?) and I have had more than 4 I am being attendance managed. This means I was given a written warning in November and was told any more than 2 more days and I would be in trouble again. This unfortunately happened (I've had 7 days sick for crohns in the past 9 months I'm in trouble again. I have raised a formal grievance against my written warning but next week I'm 99% sure I will be referred off for a decision on of they are going to sack me or not (which I am 100% sure they will)
I don't intend to let them without a fight but I do feel kind of helpless. I have been looking for another job but all prospective new employers ask the "How many days sick have you had in the past 2 years) due to an op I had for my crohns I had in January 2010 my number of days is going to be much higher than anyone else applying for the same job so I will miss out - of course they won't tell me that's the reason I didn't get an interview but it will be!
So far I haven't claimed any disability benefits so am looking in to doing that next week. What benefits (if any) can we claim and how easy are they to get?

 

[bushydougie]

Please check out the nacc website. They have loads of info about the benefits you can get I you have an IBD and you can also phone them up to get advice about benefits.
I am sure they'd also be able to give you specific advice about your situation with your employer. They have a lot of different information sheets on all of these and more.
I do hope you get something sorted soon. It is a really awful situation and I really feel for you
Sam

 

[Crohnie78]

Thanks Sam. X
I read up on DLA yesterday, looks like I'm going to have to get some energy drinks in to complete the application form!

 

[Clare]

HI Crohnie78!
sorry for the delay in responding!
I think you are going through something incredibly similar to what I have gone through - so have hope!
Basically, it is illegal for your employer to impose conditions on you that they know you will not be able to achieve, unless there is a real business need. By business need this means a real business requirement that no one else can do, but you. If there is someone else who can do it, then they should ask them. If there is no one else who can perform the task then it is further unreasonable. Business need is where money will lost or something as significant as that. In my case, my boss (who is pathetic) felt that he wanted to show me some discipline and show me "who is boss", by demanding that I come into the office every day at 9am, this was something he knew I would not be able to achieve because of my symptoms (pain and D in the morning especially),if you get what I'm saying, there was no business need, I deliver my mandate and manage my illness by not getting stressed out about not getting into work at 9am. Another way of managing your illness is by working from home, this is another reasonable adjustment. "Reasonable adjustment" is the legal term for the obligation of the employer to make it possible for you to deliver your mandate. For some people its a much bigger deal for the employer eg a person in a wheelchair who requires a disabled toilet and a ramp to get into the building, but they are still obliged to consider it and in most cases cannot argue otherwise.
the first thing to do is appeal the warning, this will involve you going to your boss's boss and saying you are doing all you can to ease your symptoms.
The second thing to do is launch a formal grievance against your boss for discriminating against you because you have a disability. The dda is a parlimentary act and as such legal law. This is a serious thing and can be long a drawn out. But, unless you do this your employer will continue to try to get rid of you.
Are other people in your office restricted by this same limit on sick days? I suspect not if you are in the uk? so, there you have your harassment and discrimination. Is this limit in your contract? Your employer cannot just change the terms and conditions of your contract without your consent - it is a legal document.
Do you have a union? I do and have found they can be quite helpful, they haven't solved everything though. Otherwise get a lawyer and simply a letter from your lawyer telling them to back off can do the trick. Also, a letter from your doctor can be quite useful as it will most likely say that this limit they are trying to impose on you is not reasonable.
ok, I'm waffling now, let me know if you would like any other info/ideas...
I do hope it works out and as my old gramp used to say "Illegitimi non carborundum", don't let the b@stards grind you down!

 

[Mister_Hotspur]

Hi Crohnie,

I empathise with you entirely, i dread to ask my HR dept how many days ive had off over the last 12 months. I was off for two months recovering from surgery and returned to work only on a part time basis, i was on full pay then aswell. Since returning full time in Sept, i went into hospital for a flare up literally a week later for 5 days, im sure i had about 3 days off in November and recently took 4 and half days off.

Now my employers been really good with me since its been a difficult year but my concern is that my flare ups are becoming a regular occurance and i dread the thought of calling in sick, my line manager is so cynical and im made to feel guilty for doing so. I do understand any companies view on sick leave, obviously they are loosing money, and other employees might see it as an excuse to "throw a sickie" if they see their colleagues taking time off..

What i find interesting is the fact that youve been there 5 years and they are taking this stance! My employer is a household name so perhaps they would be expected to be more relaxed but even so, i would look to take some advice about the whole issue. It sounds like they are trying to force you into resigning.

 

[kskitt]

Go to the NACC or CAB, this is a serious matter which needs to be dealt with.

I was pretty lucky with my job. I had applied for the job (fully declaring my crohns), and was to start in a few weeks. I manage 3 days in the new job, and on that night i end up in hospital, having a major flare which needs surgery. I was in hospital for 2 weeks, then was to have a further 4 weeks off after that.

This turned out to be 4 months off work in total (due to incompetant doctors), but work were really good and kept my job open for when i came back, and even eased me in, so i would work a few hrs one week, gradually increasoing back to full time.

Turns out they could have quite easily got rid of me, i didnt realise it, but i didnt sign my contract for the job until i went back after sick leave.

Moral of the story - You dont have to go through this, and there are good employers out there who stick to the rules (and go further).

 

[fromthegut]

Can you take a elave of absence ? I was in a job that I was very stressed with. I was sick but so afraid of losing my job. I hope you have a really good doctor who will support you !! or someone else who will be by your side.. even if you don't have that your anger is jsutified.
I ahd a niece who had 65% of her liver removed. The doctor told he it wouldn't be that bad. Well it was... she had more pain and discomfort tahn you coudl imagine. She told me later what the doctor had said. and I said.." Don'tsiten to him.. unless he has had a liver surgery himself ". listen to yourself. Work is not your life. Do whatever you need to prepare yourself. Start lookign for antoher job.. there are oens out there.
I was grateful I had a union. All the bad that people talk about them.. they were great for me. I had someone stick up for me when I couldn't stick up for myself !!

 

[fromthegut]

oh..and an an upside... the manager of a comapny I worked for had to serve me a few years ago. She was a bully to me at work when I was ill. Suffering from a lot of depression also. that is whne bullies really come out.. when you are down !! It's the whole authority thing and fear of getting fired which of course.. in this crazy world seems to be our fault and not that the expecatiations of the job is toxic. My job and 3,900 others are overseas. But soon they will go what we went through !!
Basically.. you are not alone..and you are not your job.. you are a friend, a neighbour, a daughter, a mentor, a volunteer, an artist, a writer and so on.. more than your job or anyone one person palce or thing.

 

[Crohnie78]

I have taken all your advice and spoke to unions and had legal advice. The long and short of it is that yes it's dissability discrimination and everything is being done that can be to put it right. Of course all of the stress is giving me a flare up from hell, but I will be fighting them.
I promise to keep you all informed, thank you sooo much for your help everyone xxx

 

[bushydougie]

I am so glad to hear youve taken advice and are 'fighting' this. It makes me so cross that employers can treat people in this way. Well done for standing up for yourself!!
I hope it goes well and you get sorted soon without too much stress