Questions about LDN

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nogutsnoglory

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I know nothing about this but from testimonials I am curious about trying it. Any help from veterans or those who know would be appreciated.

1. what's the standard dosage for treatment?
2. What are the side effects?
3. What kind of doctor will prescribe this and on what basis? Will my regular GI know or be willing?
4. Is there research or has there been on this for IBD? Why isn't there a clinical trial or push to make advances?
 
1. The dose that has studies is 4.5 mg.
2. People can experience a variety of side effects but the most common is sleep disturbance from vivid dreams. In our case it was mild and didn't last.
3. Your GI might prescribe it but it depends alot on his attitudes toward alternative treatments. You do need a medical doctor to give you the RX.
4. Go to www.ldn.org for the answer to this one. That way I'll stay off my soapbox. :)
 
Thanks for this feedback. I noticed the drug binds to a protein receptor that blocks endorphins. Does this create problems for people with depression or mood problems? Endorphins are our bodies natural happy substance.
 
Naltrexone in a low dose does block endorphins but only for about 4 hours and ideally while you are sleeping. Your body's response to this is a rebound effect. It senses that endorphins have been supressed and so cranks out a lot of them all at once to balance itself back out. Your body also responds by building new endorphin receptors. Simply put you are kind of tricking your body into giving you extra endorphins, which of course is what helps crohns and other diseases. As far as depression or mood problems I would ask your doctor or even your compounding pharmacist. Since it only blocks them for a short time and you actually end up with more then I wouldn't think it would have a negative effect.
 
My GI said he has prescribed it to patients with little success and he thinks the risks outweighs the benefits. He said those who report success may be experiencing placebo effect which is upwards of 30%
 
He didn't get into it but said there are a range of side effects. He must know since he has experience prescribing it.
 
Couple of points.... First, those involved in the trials had success rates of 69 to 81 percent. (I believe those are the numbers, but I'm going from memory, and I may be off by a little.. but not much). In any event, anyone who is given low dose Naltrexone probably will have a similar chance of success... no guarrantee, but it stands to reason that one group would experience the same results more or less as the next group. Having said that, there are caveats. First, is it the right form/type of Naltrexone? Was it compounded the correct way... using the right binders/fillers? Was it done recently? Does the person trying LDN have complications that might interfere or inhibit its success? (One that comes to mind is candida overgrowth). If one is given the correct type of LDN made fresh at a compounding pharmacy that knows what it is doing, then there are a couple of statements that I firmly believe are totally valid. That person has a 69 - 81% chance of experiencing significant to substantial improvement in their disease, AND the only potential side effects that have been noted are vivid dreams or interruptions in sleep. Now, I haven't kept current on the myriad of other 'approved' medications for the treating of IBD, but when I was weighing my options, everything else had either the same or lower rates of success AND came with some very disturbing/scary potential side effects. As far as I'm aware, that statement is still true. Anyone with info to the contrary please feel free to jump in and enlighten me. It is the very good/comparable success rate of LDN combined with its almost total lack of side effects that makes LDN an 'enviable' option. The problem is finding a physician with the ...'stones' ... to take the risk and prescribe it. I don't know who the doctor was in this case, but downplaying the 'success' of LDN is one thing... maybe he was prescribing the wrong type of it, but 'upsizing'/escalating the risks????? C'mon. Like the risk of having a dream or a bad nites sleep compares to... melanoma, liver cancer, kidney cancer, bowel or stomach cancer... I could go on, but I won't. Those are some of the risks I now face thanks to one of the 'traditional' meds I was on years ago. All I can see from that doctors remarks are blatant mis-representation. Final thought. There is a potential for placebo effect... scientists can't explain it... but it exists.. and it works... typically about 24% of folks in a study will benefit EVEN if they are just taking a placebo. Go figure. But here is the catch... you think people with Crohns would be upset if they were given a sugar pill and 1/4 of them improved? I don't think so. I didn't care whether it was a so called placebo effect when LDN worked for me... but I have strong indications that my good life since LDN isn't placebo effect... First, it was a long, hard fight before it kicked in, AND... I've had minor downturns when my pills became stale. Not proof positive, but it seems conclusive enough for me. I tested my theory by mixing stale and fresh pills, then I fought with the pharmacists who initially thought compounded pills had a shelf life equal to factory made pills. They've now revised it, and put warning labels on their pills now not to use past 90 days.... Wouldn't be required if I was living the good life due to a placebo effect. And even if placebo effect was in part responsible for people who've experienced improvement, do the math. Placebo effect affects about 24% (+/-), but the numbers for LDN are much, MUCH higher. It can't all be placebo. So, personally, I think the doctor spouting that info is just a 'quack'. My opinion. I have no medical training, no scientific expertise. But I have stopped my disease in its tracks using LDN. And my success is mirrored in the success of the next 5 patients my doctor trialed LDN on. No losers, no failures, no downside. What are the odds??? I guess my doctor must be part witch doctor.... No, just a very good doctor! Maybe my calling the Dr. in question a quack is a bit strong... maybe he just looked at the potential side effects of Naltrexone based on the dosages used in the original trials it had to undergo before it was approved. The lowest dose of Naltrexone you can get off the shelf is 50mg (one of the reasons the 4.5mg low dose has to be custom compounded)... and I believe (but could be wrong) the dosages used to get Naltrexone approved all those years/decades ago were actually the 'maximum' daily doses... can't recall whether it was 150 or 300mg a day. That dose does come with potential side effects... but we only need 4.5mg. Again, do the math. That's the beauty of LDN, you take so little, so you risk so little. So, maybe he isn't a quack, maybe he is just totally mis-informed. Ooooh, that can be a bad thing when you are talking medical science, right?
 
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I know you were asking Kev the question (and he is way more reliable a source than myself with his experience) but from what I've learned, after the pharmacies compound the drug, there is a bunch left over that they store. A lot of pharmacies don't realize that the shelf life for compounded LDN isn't the same as regular Naltrexone. They could potentially be dispensing very old pills that have lost their effectiveness and have gone stale.

I asked my local compounding pharmacy if they make fresh pills for every order of LDN. They said no, that they keep the leftovers from what they compound for refills, etc. I then asked if they would make a fresh batch if the patient requested it and they claimed they would. Whether or not they actually would... who knows?

Sorry for butting in. I know you wanted veteran opinions but I've been reading up on LDN since November 2011. Hopefully my assumption isn't way off.

You could always request to have your Rx called in at pharmacies that the trial doctors utilized. I believe Ermat's in NYC and Skip's in Boca Raton are the most popular LDN pharmacies.

Again, sorry if I've stepped on any toes. Just regurgitating what I've read over the past several months.
 
I'm glad you responded because I'm seriously considering LDN and other options that don't involve biologics or immune suppressors.

It's a little strange that a pharmacy wouldn't understand that the drug goes bad quickly. I will mention this argument when I see my GI.
 
Below is an abstract for a placebo controlled double blind study of LDN in Crohn's published in 2011 in Dig Dis Sci, a mainstream GI journal. The full article is here: http://crohnsdad.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/ldncrohns2011.pdf

I believe it is the best evidence to take to a doctor if you want to try LDN.

Therapy with the Opioid Antagonist Naltrexone Promotes
Mucosal Healing in Active Crohn’s Disease: A Randomized
Placebo-Controlled Trial

Jill P. Smith • Sandra I. Bingaman • Francesca Ruggiero •
David T. Mauger • Aparna Mukherjee •
Christopher O. McGovern • Ian S. Zagon
Received: 9 August 2010 / Accepted: 17 February 2011
 Springer Science+Business Media, LLC 2011

Abstract
Background Endogenous opioid peptides have been
shown to play a role in the development and/or perpetuation
of inflammation. We hypothesize that the endogenous
opioid system is involved in inflammatory bowel disease,
and antagonism of the opioid–opioid receptor will lead to
reversal of inflammation.

Aims A randomized double-blind placebo-controlled
study was designed to test the efficacy and safety of an
opioid antagonist for 12 weeks in adults with active
Crohn’s disease.

Methods Forty subjects with active Crohn’s disease were
enrolled in the study. Randomized patients received daily
oral administration of 4.5-mg naltrexone or placebo. Providers
and patients were masked to treatment assignment.
The primary outcome was the proportion of subjects in
each arm with a 70-point decline in Crohn’s Disease
Activity Index score (CDAI). The secondary outcome
included mucosal healing based upon colonoscopy
appearance and histology.

Results Eighty-eight percent of those treated with naltrexone
had at least a 70-point decline in CDAI scores
compared to 40% of placebo-treated patients (p = 0.009).
After 12 weeks, 78% of subjects treated with naltrexone
exhibited an endoscopic response as indicated by a 5-point
decline in the Crohn’s disease endoscopy index severity
score (CDEIS) from baseline compared to 28% response in
placebo-treated controls (p = 0.008), and 33% achieved
remission with a CDEIS score <6, whereas only 8% of
those on placebo showed the same change. Fatigue was the
only side effect reported that was significantly greater in
subjects receiving placebo.

Conclusions Naltrexone improves clinical and inflammatory
activity of subjects with moderate to severe
Crohn’s disease compared to placebo-treated controls.
Strategies to alter the endogenous opioid system provide
promise for the treatment of Crohn’s disease.

This is from the side effect section of the paper:

"Side Effects and Toxicity
The incidence of side effects reported during the study is
shown in Table 2. Although some side effects were frequently
reported (insomnia, diarrhea, pain) there was no
difference in the incidence of these complaints between
patients receiving naltrexone compared to placebo. The
only side effect reported with increased frequency in placebo-
treated subjects compared to naltrexone-treated
patients was fatigue (p = 0.04). Two patients exhibited a
flare of Crohn’s disease with worsening of gastrointestinal
symptoms during the first month of the study. One patient
had been randomized to naltrexone and was rescued with
steroids and withdrawn from the study. The other patient
was in the placebo arm and was crossed over prematurely
to naltrexone therapy; his symptoms responded to naltrexone,
and he successfully completed the study with
significant improvement. One patient with reflux sympathetic
dystrophy experienced aggravation of her neurogenic
pain on naltrexone suggesting an interaction with the opioid
receptors on nerve tissue. Two patients had transient
elevation in liver transaminases on naltrexone which
resolved the following month. In one of these patients the
liver enzyme increase coincided with a respiratory
infection."

Here's the table:
Table 2 Number of patients reporting side effects
Side effect/symptom Placebo Naltrexone p value
Insomnia 5 5 0.3
Unusual dreams 3 2 0.3
Headache 2 4 1.0
Flatulence 5 6 0.5
Loss of appetite 0 2 0.6
Vomiting 1 3 1.0
Diarrhea 5 7 0.7
Abdominal pain 5 5 0.3
Nausea 4 4 0.5
Hair loss 1 0 1.0
Fatigue 3 0 0.04*
Constipation 0 2 0.6
Hair growth 0 1 1.0
* Statistically significant (p\0.05)
 
Here's the thing.... literally no one has any real expertise per se compounding this drug because of its relative obscurity and immaturity. Remember, no one had even heard of this use of Naltrexone for treating Crohns until Dr Smiths study in 2007. When I first got intrigued by it, there were 6 pharmacies in North America (including only 1 in Canada) that would compound it. Compounding itself is not a common practice in your typical corner drugstore, and LDN can only be made in pharmacies that do compound AND have the required 'hood'... again not something your run of the mill drug store invests in. As for knowledge like... stale Vs fresh pills... Company that developed Naltrexone weren't interested in compounding... I bet you could search their entire web literature and not find any info on it. If a pharmacist picked up a standard pharmacology reference book there wouldn't be any info on it... and it would probably give the standard shelf life as set out by the manufacturer. Like most things related to LDN, learning to compound it correctly, shelf life, binders, fillers, etc., I'm guessing was/is a case of trial and error.

We have the most to gain/lose, so we have to do the legwork and pass along the info.
 
Skips pharmacy in Boca Raton Florida will compound and mail it out to you. they are very careful to keep it fresh. I understand the owner has Ibd or another illness and takes it himself.
 
My son has been on the LDN for 2 months. Prior to the LDN we were talking biologics (which he refuses to consider due to the side effects) and surgery to address a narrowing in his colon shown in MRE in november. He spent the entire fall, winter and spring on antibiotics and prednisone and getting little relief. We found out about LDN from this great site and gave it a go. At first he had some sleeplessness but took melatonin at bedtime and hasn't needed that in weeks. He went for a small bowel series and barium xray last week and there is no significant narrowing, ulcerations or sites of inflammation. Call it LDN or Gods work but we will continue with both our prayers and the LDN! We are so grateful for this website and all of you for sharing your ups and downs, successes and side effects with us.

17 yr old male
75 mg 6mp
2000 mg Pentasa
probiotic
multivitamin
iron supplement
LDN 5mg
 
:congratualtions::congratualtions::congratualtions::congratualtions::congratualtions::soledance:
Piscez37,
I am so glad to hear that great news! This site has been so terrific for us as well!
 
My son has been on the LDN for 2 months. Prior to the LDN we were talking biologics (which he refuses to consider due to the side effects) and surgery to address a narrowing in his colon shown in MRE in november. He spent the entire fall, winter and spring on antibiotics and prednisone and getting little relief. We found out about LDN from this great site and gave it a go. At first he had some sleeplessness but took melatonin at bedtime and hasn't needed that in weeks. He went for a small bowel series and barium xray last week and there is no significant narrowing, ulcerations or sites of inflammation. Call it LDN or Gods work but we will continue with both our prayers and the LDN! We are so grateful for this website and all of you for sharing your ups and downs, successes and side effects with us.

17 yr old male
75 mg 6mp
2000 mg Pentasa
probiotic
multivitamin
iron supplement
LDN 5mg

Wow do the doctors attribute that to the ldn or the 6mp & pentasa. Wonderful news!
 

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