Remcade without 6mp or metho

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So at our follow up appt. yesterday, dr said depending on blood work results, we will either stick with Pentasa or go to remicade. I asked him what about 6mp or methotrexate and he said he does not typically prescribe those as they are too risky, esp for young males (my son is 12). So, anybody else's dr say that? I was surprised because it seems like they are often given in conjunction with remicade and the drs always downplay the risks. Just curious what you all think. My son is considered on the mild side, and we go to CHOP.
 
In our case, remicade by itself. I guess it depends on the GI and also if remicade works without the need of something else. Just my opinion.
 
There are some older studies that showed an increased risk of a T-Cell lymphoma with Imuran use in teenage boys but I think more recent studies have shown sex doesn't matter and the increased risk is tiny.
We do remicade alone now and that seems to be enough. But have also done Imuran and Methotrexate as mono therapies in the past. Imuran just wasn't quite enough and methotrexate worked but my son had a reaction to it.
 
We did Remicade by itself and it didn't work for my daughter. Once we added Methotrexate, it worked great! Many doctors now like to give Remicade with MTX or 6MP because kids often build antibodies to Remicade, and MTX/6MP can help prevent. With antibodies, the likelihood of an allergic reaction increases or alternatively, Remicade sometimes just stops working because of the antibodies.

Though there is a cancer risk, it's tiny and is there for boys or girls and for MTX or 6MP.
 
Thanks for the replies. is the cancer risk there if you just use remicade? Or is it the 6mp or methotrexate where the tiny cancer risk comes in?
 
21 year old male on Remicade only. My understanding from speaking with the doctor was that making sure trough levels don't fall too low was key to preventing antibodies and sustaining a response. We didn't want imuran and the doctor didn't push it at all.
 
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My son is now 10 and is on MTX injections only. We tried Imuran (sister of 6mp), but my son had a bad reaction to it. What I have heard about these meds, Remicade, and the combo of these meds, is what has already been mentioned here.
 
21 year old male on Remicade only. The doctor said that making sure trough levels don't fall too low was key to preventing antibodies and sustaining a response. We didn't want imuran and the doctor didn't push it at all.

:eek2:I'm curious, is there any research stating this? This the first I've read of it.
 
I don't know for sure. And I changed my post to clarify that it's my understanding from the visit. This doctor is very up to date with research and he mentioned a bunch of research but I don't know if this is from looking at data of his patients or some research study. And it's my recollection so...
 
Ds has been on 6-mp Mtx and then remicade
The risk is from 6-mp/Imuran ever in the system either alone or with a biologic
Biologics by themselves do not have the same risk

That said Ds did remicade by itself after failing 6-mp and Mtx.
He still reacted to remicade at infusion number 7 -and 8 -his trough levels were fine and he did not have antibodies but reacted anyways

Dermo said they just dont know enough yet to be able to stop it or predict it
 
I posted on another thread about trough levels and a discussion I had with O's GI. H siad there is quitea bit of research being done on these levels.

The couple of things I took away was at a certain level (I think it was 4-7 but don't quote me) they see longer remission times and anything lower leaves the kids subject (but not definite) to antibody build up.

Farmwife: I asked you in your thread if your doc was planning to check levels. He shortened her interval but I really think with all her issues a check is in order. If she has enough in her system at infusion, shortening interval isn't going to do anything. I would want a level check to see if it is a matter of the drug running out or failing. Just my opinion.
 
Farmwife: Is your rheumatologist prescribing the Remicade? In our experience, rheumatologists don't really use antibody/Remicade levels tests. Some have even denied that they exist (even though M has had it done by her GI several times). It's really weird.
 
Yes Maya it's her Rheumatologist. It's still strange that ever her GI has never mentioned testing her levels.
 
Our Gi does not test for levels unless he thinks there is a reason for it. I had to ask a couple of times until he agreed. Only once in two years.
 
No published research to my knowledge about Remicade levels and antibody development, but it certainly makes sense to me. I am not aware of methotrexate and Remicade combination presenting added risk. I thought it was the 6MP/Remicade combination. Our Gi uses methotrexate to help prevent antibodies to Remicade.
 
Going off of what MLP said, the increased risk, though still tiny and not just restricted to boys, is if they had ever been on Aza/6MP/Imuran at ANY time either with or later followed with Remicade. Understanding that, I can see why your GI might want to skip over the immunosuppressants if he believes the old study. I believe the risk only increases by 2 in 10,000.

You might also want to check with your insurance company. Some will only cover if you work your way up the med ladder and failing each med before moving up.

My son is on Remicade only and doing well. He loves it. :)
 
Momtotwo
There are studies posted in the pediatruc research section.
The risk is increased regardless of immunosuppresant including Mtx.
And regardless of when the immunosuppresant was used either prior or concurrently with any biologic ( not just remicade ;) )
 
Slightly off topic, but wouldn't you all love to see MLP's bookmarks folder? I swear she can find anything.
 
n contrast, the same PubMed search switching the IBD terms for rheumatoid arthritis yielded 166 results, a large portion of which were directly related to lymphoproliferative disorders associated with the use of methotrexate in rheumatologic diseases. Patients with rheumatoid arthritis are believed to be at a higher baseline risk of lymphoma than the general population, making it difficult to determine how much treatment contributes to the higher rate.17 EBV may also play a role in these lymphomas. Baecklund and coworkers found that in their large series of 348 lymphomas in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, 37 were EBV-positive.17 Of these patients, 29 had prior exposure to immunomodulators (primarily methotrexate) whereas the other 8 did not. As seen in the IBD literature with AZA and 6-MP, studies examining the relationship between methotrexate and lymphoma show discordant results. In 2008, Buchbinder and colleagues reported on a cohort followed in community practices in Australia that included over 4,000 patient-years of follow-up time.34 They noted that 458 patients had received methotrexate and 8 developed NHL compared to 1.6 expected NHLs, resulting in a SIR of 5.1 (2.2–10). Dr. Frederick Wolfe, who maintains a large prospective registry of rheumatoid arthritis patients in the United States,35 found that, among nearly 20,000 patients (and almost 90,000 patient-years of follow-up), 68% received methotrexate at some point in their disease course. The use of methotrexate alone had an elevated odds ratio of 1.4 for developing lymphoma, but this was not statistically significant (95% CI 0.7–2.9). Interestingly, another recent report found that the use of corticosteroids in rheumatoid arthritis is associated with a decreased risk of lymphoma.36 Perhaps maintaining disease control is a critically important factor


From
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886374/?report=classic

Thing is Rheumo have a history of using Mtx think decades for JIA but Gi just started using it .
Considering it took 100000 of people before it showed up in 6-mp plus remicade patients
It makes sense that no one has studied the Mtx plys biologic as much in crohns.
The genes for Ibd/RA/celiac and diabetes are closely linked .
 

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