To eat carbs for Swimming or not eat carbs?

[Keepingfaith]

I've been VERY sick lately(which is why I'm rarely on the forum lately :yfrown: ) but I have been having to make myself down loads of carbs for various swim meets & practices lately. I know carbs = bad for Crohn's but any advice(from a swimmer would be GREAT)from anyone would be appreciated. I need help on how to limit yet fill up on carbs, if that is even possible. Or even on what helps you for those that do endurance/sports requiring short bursts of energy. :shifty-t:

 

[Catherine]

Sports drinks are one way to increase carbs.

Calling crohnsinct, another mother of a swimmer.

What type of carbs have you tried so far? Types of foods do you have trouble with?

 

[hugh]

being a paleo convert, i'd have to recommend pre-neolithic carbs,
sweet potato, pumpkin, taro, plantain, -
- and potatoes after an elimination test,

and if you need to, white rice is considered safe by many (some?, a few?) of 'us'.

i'd always recommend avoiding gluten grains as if they were poison (because they are )

a fairly exhaustive list of carbs from paleolithic (and some not so) sources.....
Paleo diet carbohydrate list and carb counter
http://paleozonenutrition.com/2012/04/13/paleo-diet-carbohyrate-counter/
-took me a bit to work it out but i might just be a bit thick,
The portion sizes in the right column equate to about 10gm (0.3527 oz?) of usable carbs

i wouldn't recommend sports drinks, nasty **** i'd call them...

 

[crohnsinct]

Hmm..if you have been sick due to a flare, I would think that your lack of energy for swim probably has more to do with the fact that you are not absorbing your nutrients than not getting enough carbs. In any event, yes swimmers do need lots more carbs in general anyway.

My daughter doesn't have problems with carbs. She sees a sports nutritionist and an IBD nutritionist.

The general rule that we have been given is (assuming your regular diet is good) there is no need to carb load during a swim meet because you are only swimming a 20 minute or so warm up and then your few short events. Definitely snack throughout the meet and eat your carbs. Taking anything for that "burst" of energy is a myth and harmful to your health. Endurance cyclists, triathletes etc who are doing intense exercise for hours at a time will need those carb loading bursts like that product Goo. For swimming if you are working an hour and half or more during training than you should have a carb drink at the hour and a half mark. The sports drinks are good for that (they get a bad rep but for endurance sports sometimes there is no way around them) but since we turned over to a clean diet they had us drop those processed sugar drinks and opt for chocolate milk (still some processed sugar but much less) which they say is superior because of the protein and vitamins etc that she also receives. Luckily her workouts aren't longer than 2 hours so she hasn't had to swim on a chocolater milk stomach (barforama).

As for eating during the week...she eats all whole grains, breads, pastas, sweet potatoes, lots of fruits, muffins, granola bars (homemade with all whole grains etc), lots of oatmeal and dried fruits. Stay away from non whole grains...they shoot through your system and will not keep your energy up throughout a practice. You want the whole grains that take longer for your body to process and have other good properties...if you can tolerate them...maybe wait until the flare is over.

Make sure you are drinking lots and lots of water. Dehydration plays a huge role in your ability to perform in the water. Drink throughout the day and especially an hour before your workout and throughout the workout. They say, not drinking enough water is the number one mistake swimmers make.

I hope you are feeling better soon and good luck!

 

[crohnsinct]

Um Duh! Can't believe I forgot this....that is what I get for trying to respond when getting kids off to school!

Anyway, my daughter was on EN for 6 weeks and used Boost and Ensure. She was on Remicade but it wasn't working all the way. The EN is what got my daughter to remission. The Boost and Ensure drinks are perfect for swimmers. She had one as her post workout recovery snack everyday (as one of her 6 shakes). They are both about 40 carbs and 10 protein...the perfect mix for post workout recovery! Lots of potassium and other stuff swimmers need also! The added bonus is that even if you are unwell or in a flare you know that your body will absorb the nutrition from the drinks much more readily than say a bagel with peanut butter etc (easier on the bowrl). The sports nutitionist is so jazzed by these that she is now recommending them to a lot of her perfectly healthy swimmers. My daughter is off EN but she is still underweight and swimming so she has one of these a day as her post workout recovery drink and I think they are really helping...not too clean as far as the diet goes but you have to give and take here and there. I would definitely try those. Maybe if you are unwell add more than one a day.

Oh and one other item we have vamped up in her diet to get a lot of good carbs in her is beans...salads, bean burgers, beans and rice etc.

 

[bangarang]

Carbs bad for crohns? I'd be dead by now. Stick to real food in getting carbs like potatoes, yucca, quinoa, bananas, not a huge fan of rice but if your into rice try to stick to nongmo brown rice, I think majority if not all the white rice in the USA is gmo which can really mess up your system.

 

[kiny]

Every carb gets turned into glucose eventually, which is the only thing the blood can use, so you might as well eat straight glucose in the form of tablets or straight dextro (which is what athletes use).

The idea that simple carbs like sugar are bad for you is something that should be taken with a grain of salt imo. Yes, huge amounts of glucose taken without any other food are probably bad because of the spike in blood glucose and insulin you will get, but honestly who does this. I know no one who just eats dextro / sucralose on their own in ridiculous quantities, outside of really unhealthy people or kids who eat candy every day.

If you're low on energy and need sugar just take straight sucrose, glucose or dextro, forget the complex carbs, why let your body go through the extra trouble to get it turned into glucose, it's all going to be turned into glucose anyway.






All of this anti-simple carb stuff (the anti-soft drink, anti-candy brigade), was started by people who are overweight who consume ridiculous amounts of simple sugars every day without eating anything else, which is why they made the glycemic index, to check their insulin levels, but those are people with pre-existing conditions, i.e. they eat like a slob every single day. There are no issues from taking simple glucose or dextro or soft drinks or candy or whatever, in fact it's probably better than complex carbs for people with crohn since it's way easier to take up in the body, unless you consume simple sugars every minute of the day. It's getting turned into glucose anyway.

Why are people calling sugar bad but fruit good? It's both a simple sugar, both in high quantities, both can spike insulin and both will end up as glucose in your blood, but fruits are good and candy bad? The only reason sugar got a bad reputation over fructose, even though the effect on the body is 100% the same thing, is because it's easier to consume large quantities of glucose or dextro than it is to consume fructose in the form of fruit. It's far easier to consume soda than it is to consume fruit, that doesn't mean that fructose is good and sucrose bad, they will both become glucose and both will serve as an energy source, the only reason one has a worse reputation is because some people don't know when to stop, they consume large amounts of sucrose and become overweight, but that doesn't mean sucrose is normal quantities is bad for you, it's the best energy source available.

There is nothing wrong with simple carbs, sucrose, dextro, glucose, if they are taken in normal amounts.

There are these "no sugar, no fat diets", if those diets actually were possible, people would end up dying. Your fats and your sugar are your energy sources, the only difference is that fat is better at storing energy and glucose is better at giving energy bursts, if you leave out both you would just die. If you ate only protein you would get kidney failure.

And when you compare fat, complex carbs and simple carbs in relation to crohn, simple carbs in reasonable amounts is probably the best solution if you have crohn since it has the highest bioavailability (gets taken up easiest), the lowest amount of waste, and unlike fat it probably doesn't have a major effect on inflammation (unlike saturated fat).

 

[kiny]

(Another thing I wanted to add is that the uptake of a simple sugar also depends on what you eat with it if anything at all. If you eat a whole meal and then consume a tablet of dextro, it's not going to give that burst of energy you're looking for, the body will have slowed down digestion because of the prior (or even current) meal you ate, this will impact glucose uptake. If however you take a simple sugar on it's own, (i.e. a soft drink or a dextro tablet), you will get the effects of the rapid uptake of the dextro or sucrose that will immediately be turned into glucose ready for energy.

The glycemic index doesn't take this into account, it doesn't take prior digestion or glycemic load into account. The amount of insulin and effect you get from a simple sugar highly depend on how fast your digestion is going to be (did you take a meal prior or not, are you taking it on your own or not) and on the glycemic load (how much glucose are you actually consuming)

The reason athletes don't tend to eat just prior to an event is not just conveninience, it's because a prior meal will impact that burst of energy they need when they take those fast sugars, any meal that isn't fully digested will slow down glucose uptake)

 

[crohnsinct]

My husband has diabetes and is not overweight and doesn't eat like a slob everyday...never did. Further my whole family is part of the anti sugar brigade and not one of us is overweight (all average and underweight and eat 2000 calories of food on a clean diet) or eats like a slob and we are all athletes. We are not anti glucose...it is the processed sugar that we are against. After much research over the years, we have come to the side that much of the processed nature of the foods people are eating today are contributing to many of the health issues people are facing. There is a reason many years ago diseases such as diabetes and IBD occurred in older adults and over the years as our diets got further and further away from the natural foods the diseases have started appearing in younger populations. Mind you I said I believe the overly processed nature of our diets contribute not cause the diseases. As a matter of fact, when our 12 year old daughter was diagnosed our doctor told me that her diet didn't cause it and that she would have gotten IBD sooner or later but that possibly the diet had an effect on her getting the disease sooner. Someone also recently posted a piece that said they do believe diets high in processed sugar contribute to the onset of IBD.

As far as skipping the complex carb because it will be turned into sugar sooner or later and it takes too much energy for the body to process, that is just bad advice for an athlete. Especially swimmers who work 6 days a week and sometimes twice a day in the pool and then do dryland workouts in addition to pool workouts. Everything an athlete puts into their mouth should have some benefit other than just raising blood sugar levels for a spike of energy. Performance capability starts well before an event and requires consistent good eating habits on a daily basis. Yes, athletes need carbs but they should be good quality carbs that deliver added benefits besides just the shot of energy from pure processed sugar. To use your example a piece of fruit is much preferred over a glucose shot because of the added vitamins, nutrients and fiber etc that it will be providing for the body. Further, it is much preferred for an athlete to have a steady stream of energy from complex carbs rather than that one quick burst. That quick burst will do nothing to get an athlete through a 2 hour water workout. An exception to this would be however, endurance sports, triathlons, marathons etc where you are pushing your body for hours at a time with no rest or ability to refuel. For these sports glucose shots etc work but only during those events and not on a regular basis.

I also want to add that I certainly understand that life isn't an all or nothing proposition. I have stated I am in the anti processed sugar brigade BUT I did put my daughter on EN for 6 weeks and she drank Boost and Ensure (and I already know your opinion about them Kiny but that is what our doctor advised so we followed his advice). Imagine my shock when I saw the first ingredient was HFCS. I accepted it because it was a means to an end....getting my daughter healthy...just like I accepted the risks of Remicade. There is a time and place for everything. After especially difficult workouts if we do not have a healthy alternative to offer her she gets a nice big Gatorade also. But overall good quality nutrition has been our goal for both her athletic endeavors (she is primarily a swimmer but also bikes and runs) and her IBD. Athletes with chronic health issues must be looked after carefully. Low energy can be caused from many other issues other than not enough carbs...poor nutrition, not enough calories, poor absorption etc.

I have posted elsewhere about my family's results on a clean diet so I will save you from that here but let me just say that our results have been very encouraging and we will not be going back to a processed diet anytime soon.

 

[kiny]

well,

You say you're against processed sugars (or refined sugars), but a few lines up you're recommending "Goo" for athletes, every single sports brand or your Goo or pre-workouts are refined sugars. Same with the drinks you used for your daughter, those are all refined sugars.

Ensure is water with sugar and low quality protein, anyone can make ensure, and it's refined sugar. The reason I don't like Ensure has more to do with the fact this stuff is promoted as a medical drink even though it's pure garbage, if anything will give you a heart attack it's going to be ensure, tons of vitamins thrown together and so much sugar in one drink that I don't know how they can even sell this, that's why glycemic load is relevant, Ensure would have very high glycemic load which is far unhealthier than simple sugars itself (or refined if you will).

You say you want good quality carbs, that doesn't mean much to me, when all said and done, a carb is a carb, it's all blood glucose, and if a carb raises glucose levels fast or not is highly dependent on a lot of things. Complex carbs can raise blood sugar faster than soda pop or eating sucralose or dextro or glucose. Go look at the glycemic index, you'll find complex carbs on that list there raising insulin much higher than refined sugar, it also depends on the glycemic load, the total amount of sugar you're taking and it depends on what you're eating.

Dunno what atheletes you're talking about, but I know no athlete who tries to get energy out of complex carbs for any event, the only way to get the most amount of energy out of a sugar is to use monosaccharides in the form of dextro or glucose, since they're easy to extract from a food source (and look up any sports brand, I challenge you to find one without either glucose, fructose or dextro). It's not that simple to say that complex carbs will give a steady stream of energy, many complex carbs have a much higher glycemic index than simple carbs, it depends on a lot of factors.

(I do believe that's a good argument for proteins, certain proteins digest much faster and others deliver a stream of protein content, and it's purely down to the type of protein, the ones with smaller amino acid chains vs ones with long chains, but for sugar this isn't true, the digestion rate is not as simple as Simple VS complex, it depends on glycemic load and metabolism)

I'm mostly tired of people who say carb x is bad carb y is not (the fact people think processed sugar or fructose is inherently bad is because the media has been pushing this story for years, complex carbs are the same damn thing after your intestine processed them, they're both blood glucose, the only reason this story is being pushed is because it's far easier to consume 100 soda cans than it is to eat 100 buckets of rice, and when someone is overweight, it's going to be because of the soda cans, not the rice, but that doesn't mean refined sugar is bad), at the end of the day ALL is blood glucose, and a complex carb vs simple carb or the glycemic index, is a lot less important than glycemic load and prior digestion influencing bloog glucose and thereby insulin. And if you can use sugar that is already processed, why in the world would you spend your time trying to get your energy from complex carbs.

I do agree with you when you say you want a complete meal and food with complex carbs tend to have other benefits than just raising glucose, but I think that's not a strong enough argument to rail against refined sugar. There are plenty of good ways to get adequate nutrition outside of using complex carbs.

 

[hugh]

I'm mostly tired of people who say carb x is bad carb y is not (the fact people think processed sugar or fructose is inherently bad is because the media has been pushing this story for years, complex carbs are the same damn thing after your intestine processed them

I'm tired too kiny, but this really takes the cake.
There's just too much nonsense in this post to bother with.
If you have no clue (or half a clue in this case) about an issue it's probably best not to post (and i am being polite)

 

[kiny]

I'm tired too kiny, but this really takes the cake.
There's just too much nonsense in this post to bother with.
If you have no clue (or half a clue in this case) about an issue it's probably best not to post (and i am being polite)

Polite would be replying to me without saying you're too tired to explain yourself.

All carbs turn into blood glucose, no exception. All complex and simple carbs become blood glucose.

Your intestine processes carbs, any carb, and it turns it into glucose, it get taken up by the blood and your body and cells will use the blood glucose as energy.

After digestion, there is no difference between that carb from that piece of bread you ate or that soda pop you drank, both will now be blood glucose, what can differ is the glycemic load (--> which I mentioned like 3 times, so don't tell me I didn't mention this), but a carb is a carb after it's processed, there is no difference at all.

There is no reason for this witchhunt against sucrose or dextro that the media does, the expression "a carb is a carb" is true after digestion has taken place. The difference in glycemic index is negligable for anyone who doesn't consume in excess, most high GI carbs are mitigated if you eat any other food. The only danger of high GI foods are people who use them in ridiculous amounts, people who drink soda 24/7, or people with prior conditions (diabetes etc), and even then the issue is down to the glycemic load because they're drinking pure water with sugar and using a diet with sweets resulting in very high glycemic load that GI becomes irrelevant.

Glycemic index is actually pretty useless, it's based on people who would only eat that type of carb, pure, without any other substance. Any other substance is going to make the GI drop and make the glycemic index useless, in real life, glycemic index is 99% useless. Those glycemic index studies are also done in the first place for people and with people who have insulin regulation issues (diabetes).

A carb is a carb after digestion.

What does matter is glycemic load.

What I said is not nonsense but the truth, if you want to challenge me on that, go ahead, but don't say i'm wrong without explaining yourself, that's unfair to me, and not polite at all.

 

[crohnsinct]

well,

You say you're against processed sugars (or refined sugars), but a few lines up you're recommending "Goo" for athletes, every single sports brand or your Goo or pre-workouts are refined sugars. Same with the drinks you used for your daughter, those are all refined sugars.

Just wanted to clarify that I was not recommending products such as goo to athletes. Rather I was saying that there is a time and place for everything and pointing out a very specific time and place when such products might be used. Further, I also pointed out that yes we have used drinks for our daughter that we typically would not use but that there are compelling reasons ie: Boost or Ensure as prescribed by her doctor or gatorade when nothing else was available.

As for the energy arguments, I think Keeping the Faith was not asking about a short burst for one event but rather energy in general.

I do not want to muddy the waters on her thread any longer. My intent was not to debate the virtues of processed sugar but rather help a young swimmer with the experience my family has gained through years of swimming and consultation with sports and IBD nutritionists and doctors.

 

[hugh]

paleo guru Loren Cordain wrote a book Paleo for Athletes, and to sum up he recommends med to low GI carbs about two hours before event or training,
- and only if the event is more than an hour you may want hi GI drink during event, (but why not make your own glucose and water or fruit juice?)
- with protein and carbs after,
The GI obviously to stagger the avaliability of the carbs to correspond to the workout/event
With crohn's i'd avoid pasta/wheat like the plague (have i said that )
Worth a look....
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...qD4PONuIA&sig2=cE321-E-gtZtTFWruR9Vnw&cad=rja

 

[Keepingfaith]

Thanks you guys! In between being sick, school, sports & being the honored hero I've been busy! I've done EN before & I rarely can keep that down. Like I said, I eat one meal a day & maybe a snack. Carbs are bad for yeast etc. which I worry about because I live off carbs. Ill try your ideas!

 

[Keepingfaith]

Oh & crohnstinct: I've found sports beans(the jelly beans) amazing! Love them for swim meets! My swimmer friends have helped me a lot diet wise