Update on V, case in point for silent disease progression

Crohn's Disease Forum

Help Support Crohn's Disease Forum:

Jesus I tell a good story! :rof:

Well done T! :lol: Who needs a fecking memory when I have you! Mwah! :kiss: Except I'm like the old granny you invite for Christmas and I bore the bejesus out of you all by telling the same story again and again and again and again...

Oh and did I tell you Matt was Flagyl for 6 months. He was on 400mgs three times a day pre op and 200mg three times a day post op. He didn't.....:rof:

:ylol::ylol::ylol:

Imaboveitall, Tacro is regularly used to get IBD patients healthy in preparation for surgery by our Boston docs. Her own GI has never used it for IBD (he has used it for transplant patients). We opted out of the surgery after her drastic improvement, which her Boston GI is not thrilled with :shifty: They don't like to keep kiddos on it for long as it can damage the kidneys, although transplant recipients are on it for a lifetime. I am planning to keep her on it as long as possible...if she DOES end up needing life altering surgery I would love for her to be at an age where she can have some input in the decision.
 
Will say that DS uses metro ( flagyl ) creme on his face for the newly developed perioral dermitis ( rosecea) .
It works well but the inflammation ( rash) starts up right before the next creme session is due. I could really see it working for the gut the same way kwim.
 
AW THANKS all :rosette1:

FWife, that was an awesome post. :thumleft:

Jmckinley, thank you too, I like to hear from the other drug resisters who have now succumbed to the scary drugs :hallo3:

I'm OK with going ahead now, she is always ready for whatever comes, I await word from The Saint as to the full report on the pillcam (all I have had so far is an informal email saying what a mess things are compared to last year's) and shall start Flagyl tomorrow.

I've also upped her formula quite a bit.
 
It certainly is hard to put our babies on these drugs but as most people said the cases of bad side effects are rare and we know that allowing crohns to run unchecked will definitely have consequences. All we can do is weigh the pros and cons and do the best we can.
 
Thanks for posting this Julie. Chloe's labs were perfect at her last follow up but I'm def going to ask for the pill endoscopy next time she goes. I think I'll take my iPad to show her gi this post in case he says she doesn't need it. I just have a question. Why has she been on prednisone since April? Is it a tiny dose because she's dependent or is it part of her regular treatment? I thought pred was something done to treat a flare, i didn't know people stayed on it. I wonder if the prednisone could play a role in skewing the bloodwork somehow?
 
Little C, do read my older posts if you want a clearer picture, it may give you some stuff to think about.
In short: the pred was started when she had fatigue/weakness/vasovagal type symptoms to a debilitating degree.
She had ZERO GUT symptoms and still has none.
She also has borderline hypocortisolism causing the cardiovascular issues/diastolic hypotension (tachy HR, diastolic BP is often in the 30's and is sometimes too low to get a read). SO she responded GREAT and FAST (six hours after 1st dose) to the pred.
We started with a dose pack, then to 30 mg and on down until she was at 15mg/5mg alternate days and still doing GREAT. NO SYMPTOMS.

After the cap endo result we upped pred to 40mg for a week, and now to 30mg and on down to as low as she can get and still manage the hypocortisolism/dysautonomia.

Oh and yes pred can skew labs; her labs were the same prior to it as they now are with the exception of lactoferrin which was formerly HIGH and since pred has been LOW. That was her only abnormal value except for low cortisol and low iron which she has consistently had.
Then the annual cap endo and lo and behold this big healthy ox beauty queen has a maelstrom in the entire small bowel. Formerly just the TI was involved, last year's pillcam showed all healthy small bowel until it got to the TI.
SO in her case as her symptoms were from hypocortisolism, the pred fixed that up straightaway but DID NOT help ongoing inflammation (which in her case is apparently SILENT) which has been advancing all these months, SILENTLY.
So really the pred masked how sick she was/is, but she has never had gut symptoms so WTeffingF are we to do? Do pillcams yearly I guess as it was the only way to know; her scopes are always perfect.
 
Julie, I would also try faecal calproection this is sarah only test which is high but it is only 620 and course mri. She also has low iron like V, but it has also resulted in anemia.

I have just found out that Sarah has a very mild gassy stomach which is enough to stop her swimming but she says its not Crohn pain, this what caused me to have test run. You may find V also has some very very low symptoms.
 
Good luck with the Flagyl. Hope she has no side effects from it and it helps with the problems.
 
Thanks, Catherine, yes your girl sounds much like V, lactoferrin is similar to calprotectin, and that's her only "off' lab besides iron and cortisol.

Sascot, thank you, she had two doses thus far and no issues, I asked her afterwards if it tasted bad and she said no worse than pred tabs which are bitter according to her.
It's temp solution though as Remicade is surely next, maybe with methotrexate too. :(
 
Julie-
Look in the ped research section - two papers now include females and MTX in the risk group for t-cell lymphoma when combined with remicade.
just thought you should know.
hugs
 
Oh I know MLP, I know. :pale:
I will likely start Remicade alone first as I don't like to introduce more than one variable at a time in case of bad reaction.
The Saint's reasoning for starting the two together is to help prevent antibody development to the Remicade.
Apparently that's what the big IBD centers are recommending, he said.
But I can't see myself doing that from the jump.
 
Depends on the study but the one I read in research section
The amount of time to build antibodies and the amount of time remicade was still effective was the same regardless whether it was used as remicade alone or with Mtx .
Our Gi had not seen the studies until I gave him prints he said most Gi's are using both together but since Mtx is basically the same mechanism as 6-mp or Aza he would not expect a different ( less risk with Mtx) .
 
Julie-
Look in the ped research section - two papers now include females and MTX in the risk group for t-cell lymphoma when combined with remicade.
just thought you should know.
hugs

You really do want me to change your name to bubble burster don't you:eek:

Jk you know we love you and all your research! :ghug:
 
Remicade was so awesome for Alex. In hindsight, I wish we'd done something to prevent the buildup of antibodies if it would've let him stay on remi longer. Though at the time I remember quitting the 6mp just as fast as I was able, I was so freaked out to have him on both at the same time. And now he's on both Humira and 6mp anyway! sigh.... ;)
 
Many thanks for that, Jenn :heart:
It was hard enough to get OK with using Remicade and now I must debate using it alone or with MTX. I think what I'll do is see how well it works at first, and if it is working great add the MTX after awhile if I do at all. It seems like several on here who were once on just Remicade are now on a combo, I can think off the top of at least four *sigh* :frown:

You too, MLP, thanks. He keeps offering to send her to a big IBD center for a second opinion, says the combo is what the big dogs are using, he goes to conferences a lot and has presented V's case to colleagues at them and to a really big research dog in Canada. They all seem to concur with his recommendation.
I feel somewhat defeatist as in, I suspects she'll end up on a combo eventually no matter what I do now. This sucks. :voodoo::voodoo:
 
Last edited:
Many thanks for that, Jenn :heart:
It was hard enough to get OK with using Remicade and now I must debate using it alone or with MTX. I think what I'll do is see how well it works at first, and if it is working great add the MTX after awhile if I do at all. It seems like several on here who were once on just Remicade are now on a combo, I can think off the top of at least four *sigh* :frown:

Hi, just a word about the Remicade+MTX combo. My doctor (prof.Koletzko - a lot to talk about but she is an amazing scientist!)) said the the researches show that the combo has much better results both in starting the remission as well as carrying it on. She also said that it is better to start with the combo. She thinks she will be tapering down the MTX after some time (now it is 15 mg a week).

Maybe not much help but something I wanted to add.

Ania
 
In that study, 75% (12/16) of patients on concurrent 6-MP maintained a favorable clinical response, compared to 50% (9/18) on no concurrent immunosuppressive therapy.28 In the ACCENT 1 study, only 18% of the patients on neither concurrent prednisone nor immunosuppressive drug therapy developed HACA, compared to just 10% of patients on concurrent azathioprine or methotrexate therapy.26 The therapeutic benefit of concurrent immunosuppressive therapy is generally considered marginal and is felt to not outweigh the associated increased risk of hepatic T-cell lymphomas, a malignancy that is universally lethal in the pediatric patient population.27 Moreover, both adalimumab and certolizumab have proven efficacy in salvaging those patients who develop either a partial responsiveness or intolerance to infliximab therapy.28 As a result, the purported benefit is not felt to outweigh the increased risk for malignancy.

From:
http://amec.glp.net/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=844095&folderId=754745&name=DLFE-19607.pdf
 
THANKS, Aniuko.
He is so up on the current thinking on treatments and has used a lot of the alternative ones other docs won't try (like EN for V for years now, naltrexone, worms etc) so I really should trust him and I DO revere him, really. He is a true Saint. I am just so scared. :voodoo:
Your saying that is how your doc who I read in your other post is a big dog herself, feels, makes me feel better about him wanting to go that route. I know he consults gurus often on V and others, and is not just pulling stuff out of his hat. Or ass. :blush:
 
DDW: Methotrexate Adds No Benefit to Infliximab (Remicade) in Crohn's Disease
By John Gever, Staff Writer, MedPage Today
Published: May 23, 2008
Reviewed by Zalman S. Agus, MD; Emeritus Professor
University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine
Action Points
Explain to interested patients that the study found no benefit from adding methotrexate to infliximab (Remicade) therapy in Crohn's disease.
Explain that infliximab and methotrexate are each approved individually for Crohn's disease.
Note that this study was published as an abstract and presented orally at a conference. These data and conclusions should be considered to be preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal.
SAN DIEGO, May 23 -- Although both methotrexate and infliximab (Remicade) are known to be effective against Crohn's disease, combining them provides no extra benefit, a researcher said here.


Patients receiving the combination had the same treatment success rate as others treated with infliximab alone in a 50-week, placebo-controlled trial, reported Brian Feagan, M.D., of the Robarts Research Institute in London, Ontario, at Digestive Disease Week.


"Triple induction therapy with methotrexate was not more effective than dual induction therapy followed by infliximab maintenance therapy," he said.


Treatment success was defined by three criteria: score of less than 150 on the Crohn's Disease Activity Index and no clinical need for prednisone supplements at week 14, and no relapse though week 50.


At week 14, 76.2% of patients receiving the combination met the success definition, compared with 77.8% of those taking infliximab and placebo (P=0.83). There were 63 patients in each arm.


Relapse rates were also nearly identical, with 55.6% of combination-treated patients meeting the final success definition at week 50 versus 57.1% of those receiving infliximab and placebo (P=0.86).


Disease duration had no bearing on responses to the combination versus infliximab alone. There were no differences in response rates in patients whose disease onset was less than two years earlier, nor in patients with disease duration of more than 12 years.


Patients in the study were adults with an established Crohn's diagnosis and active symptoms requiring 15 to 40 mg/day of prednisone. Lactating or pregnant women and patients with risk factors for toxicity from the study drugs or recent serious infections were excluded.


Infliximab was given at 5 mg/kg by infusion at weeks one, three, and seven, and every eight weeks thereafter through week 50, with 200 mg of hydrocortisone prior to each infusion. Methotrexate was started at 10 mg weekly by subcutaneous injection, then increased to 25 mg by week seven and continued until week 14. Prednisone was gradually withdrawn over the 14-week induction phase.


Median disease activity scores over the first 14 treatment weeks suggested that the methotrexate-infliximab combination was actually inferior to infliximab alone, although the difference did not reach statistical significance.


Dr. Feagan said that if any advantage for the combination was going to be evident, it would most likely have been in this measure. In fact, the mean score in the combination group at week 14 was about 125, compared with about 100 with infliximab.


Secondary measures of effectiveness, such as scores on the SF-36 health survey instrument, also showed no significant differences between treatments.


There were no major differences in adverse effects in the study, Dr. Feagan said. The most important was that 14 patients in the combination group had disease exacerbations versus four in the infliximab-only group. Infection rates were nearly identical.


Despite the lack of benefit for the combination in the trial, Dr. Feagan said it deserves additional research.


"In my opinion, future studies should concentrate on combination therapy in patients with early disease and in steroid-resistant patients," he said.


Gary Lichtenstein, M.D., of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, commented that the findings were no surprise.


Earlier studies in his own lab and elsewhere had suggested that combinations of drugs do not add benefit to individual biologic therapies in Crohn's disease, he said.


"In most patients you don't need to add anything. These biologic agents are wonderful drugs by themselves. By adding drugs such as methotrexate or steroids you are just increasing the risk of serious adverse events," he said.


The study was investigator-initiated with support from Schering Canada.

Dr. Feagan reported relationships with Abbott, UCB Pharma, Centocor, Schering-Plough, Novartis, Celgene, Chemocentryx, Procter & Gamble Pharmaceuticals, Otsuka America, Berlex, Santarus, Synta, Genentech, PDL Biopharma, and Elan.


Dr. Lichtenstein reported relationships with Salix, Procter & Gamble, Shire, Axcan, Centocor, UCB, Schering-Plough, Abbott, AstraZeneca, GlaxoSmithKline, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Elan, Serono, Wyeth, Millennium, and Protein Design Labs.

Primary source: Digestive Disease Week
Source reference:
Feagan B, "A randomized trial of methotrexate in combination with infliximab for the treatment of Crohn's disease" Digestive Disease Week 2008; Abstract 682c.

From:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/DDW/9598

I will move to research section as well
 
MLP as Dusty is already the Mayor of Suckville, I nominate you for Vice Mayor.
Thank you so much.
Of course this makes me question WHY all these big dogs want to use the combo therapy when there is data to refute its benefit?
I want to see if Remicade even works before worrying about preventing antibodies. It may not do a thing for her as Humira didn't.
Plus I am loath to introduce two variables and always avoid that when I can.
 
Yes, I loooove all these researches...

Is V taking Prednisone? From what I understood in the studies all the patients were taking prednisone during the time of the study. Maybe that could influence the study? Also, the study is from 2008 and maybe there are new studies which my doc was talking about...Or am I just trying to make myself feel better that Kasia is taking MTX+Remicade :)))).

And yes, you guys are right...thanks all the people who read researches and share them.

Ania
 
I would vote that slate in! Dusty and Penguin for Mayor and vice mayor! I would pay to see those campaign ads and our convention shall be in Chicago!
 
Aniuko, go a couple posts above and see MLP's 2010 study. *sigh*
It corroborates the one from 2008.
Yep, been on pred since APRIL and STILL had disease progression. WTF.
 
OK, word from The Saint after reviewing the whole study: quote, "a very disturbing result and significant progression".
Just figured I'd open with that cheering tidbit. :stinks:

Entire sm bowel now involved, mod to severe disease throughout, "stricture and/or perforation is likely", blood loss from sm bowel is reason for low iron
Recommendation:
Start Lialda (waiting for ins pre-auth)
continue Flagyl
up pred to 60mg for a week then down by 5mg/wk
Remicade asap
diet: primarily formula (already implemented)

I knew much of this from email before but this was the official report after reading the second half of the study.
Scared, so scared.
 
Oh my, I know you hated to hear all of it from him even if you were fairly sure of it all from the email. I do hope that the treatment plan sets thing right and heals the damage quickly.

It is so much to wrap your head around, I am sure, with V not having symptoms and holding weight. To know all that can be going on with normal labs and tests and no symptoms just chills me to the bone and makes me want to sign up for every test they have for C!!!

I just wanted to send some extra hugs:ghug::ghug: for you and V and a couple of stabbies:voodoo::voodoo: for CD
 
Sorry hear it the whole sm bowel. Hopefully you can move forward quickly with treatment.

We are luck far 30cm of sm bowel involvement is causing us low iron and anemia, I can't imagine what more would do.
 
Last edited:
:hug: :hug: :hug: Julie :hug: :hug: :hug:

I'm so, so sorry that you've received that news!!! You know that I know exactly how you're feeling! :ghug: When they're looking and feeling so well, it truly is a sucker punch! :ymad: I can easily imagine all the questions, thoughts, worries flying through your head right now... I'm there with you! There was so much great advice and information given on Stephen's thread (which I know you've read), that I can't add anything! But, reading everyone's positive experiences with remicade truly, truly helped me!! Re-read them all!! I know knowledge is golden but, for now, DO NOT GO TO THE REMICADE subforum! Give yourself time to absorb slowly, there's lots to take in!!

Lots of love :heart:, hugs :ghug:, and strength :arghmatey_ani: going your way!!!

:ghug: :ghug:


(it's crazy at work today, will try to come back on later...)
 
THANKS, awesome friends. :rosette2:
Correction from earlier post: "stricture and/or FISTULA/perforation likely" :shifty-t:

Clash, I know, WTF that this can be so silent. Dusty's girl, Stephen and Violet...all silent...I cannot believe Stephen, the other long term EN user on here (that I know of) who also used no drugs is now in the same condition as V. Blowing my mind really. What are the odds Tess and I would be on here with the same situation at the same time. And Crohn'sMom's Gab. Sh*t. If I hadn't had the pillcam WE WOULD NOT have known, despite pillcam naysayers it was essential in this case. I SO HOPE this helps others.

Catherine, he didn't give measurements, I have no idea how much is actually involved, he just said, "throughout the small bowel". From that I infer in its entirety, "patchy" he said throughout. :yfrown:

Tess, dear...what can I say. I am here when you need me.:Karl: I know you're thinking as I am, "had I listened to the doc last year she wouldn't be in this predicament maybe". Oh and I shan't be reading ANY MORE on Remicade, I know what you mean, I have to just do it now, she is to have it regardless and I cannot help the reaction/result. Must let go and just take action now.

Love to all.
 
Last edited:
Don't be so hard on yourself - you make the best decision based on the facts at the time-
At the time she had no symptoms and things looked good inside .

Your post makes me wonder what DS small bowel really looked like before remicade especially since everything got so much better afterwards.
 
In the words of my friend imaboveitall. That effing sucks! I can believe inflammation but am blown away by the extent.

Ditto MLP's comment. You are an incredible advocate for your daughter. Every decision you made was painstakingly arrived at and not made lightly. Things change. I know I said this to you once before but you just never know had you jumped to these drugs earlier who knows they might not have worked.

I am with Clash...this is enough for me to hire a GI on retainer to live in our house and test O constantly.

So sorry hun and I hope that Remicade kicks Crohns' Ass!
 
Poor C is over at a friend's house for the night, he is going to come home to a manic Mom that has him signed up for an MRE, pillcam and colonoscopy for Christmas to h*LL with some presents!!!

On a sucky sidenote, I was so distraught about V after reading your post, I obsessed all day afterwards while trying to get some Christmas shopping done. I walked through the door with Stephen and Tess on my mind and all the while thinking wasn't there something else one of these kiddos was waiting on the results for...then it hit me I was supposed to call the d@#n GI nurse today for C's results on those last tests!
 
Please don't beat yourself up over this ! ~ You either Tess !
You both made informative, well researched, heart wrenching decisions on the best medical path for your children ~ and you made them from your heart ! Where on earth could anyone find fault in that !
It's like I said recently in the Undiagnosed Kids thread ~ IT IS THIS DAMNED DISEASES FAULT ! NOT OURS !

Look at it from my perspective if you will for a moment ~ Gab was on 6mp, started on 120 mg of pred and tapered down over about a 15 MONTH time frame. She was also on Apriso, (Asacol before that), fish oil, Flagyl and Cipro ( for approx 9 months straight), protonix and I'm sure there are plenty other things that were tried and failed as far as supplements along the way. THEN she had over 100 cm of her very diseased bowel removed and a temporary ileostomy placed for 9 months. AFter all of this ~ cutting her disease out and re-starting her system and putting her on the "big guns" Cimzia~ her remission lasted maybe 3 months before she became symptomatic again ! Ok, so you probably know the rest since then and up till now ~ things aren't pretty and now we're moving onto combo therapy. Sooo...even if you had both decided on the "big (scary) guns" long ago, there are NO guarantees that your precious children would not be in the same place right now.

BE KIND TO YOURSELVES !

Much love and peace to you both
xoxoxox
my heart is breaking for you all !
:(
 
I have to say also don't beat yourselves up! We do the best we can for our children! It really is scarey how this disease can progress silently but I thank g-d for all the tests we do have available today as well as all the current treatments and new ones on the horizon. I was reading last night about some celebs who died in their 50's from complications due to crohns. It scared the crap out of me but then I thought about how lucky we are today for all the improvements in medicine we have. When those celebs were diagnosed and treated they had way fewer options then our kids do which was why their diseases progressed to the point it did. I think we have to try to look at the bright side of things (Monty python song in my head right now. Always look on the bright side of life!)and also continue to look at the future and new things which are on the horizon for our kids!
 
You've already gotten great advice...nothing to add but love...:kiss::kiss::kiss:
and stabbys, because you love them...
:voodoo::voodoo::voodoo::voodoo::voodoo::voodoo:
:heart:
 
Thanks ALL! Angie stabbies RULE :voodoo::voodoo:
Crohn'sMom awesome post :kiss:

*gulp* first infusion DEC 27 1 p.m.
I'm getting her the new Google Nexus 10 tablet to take to infusions :)
 
Julie, if this helps at all...

My mom's cousin was diagnosed with crohns at least 10, probably closer to 15, years ago in Portugal. She was in seriously bad shape, is approx. 5'6" and went down to 90 lbs, everything that was tried (and I don't know what was initially tried) failed, her specialist sent her to another specialist because he had run out of ideas, said he'd never had a patient who presented such severe symptoms and did not respond (her crohns is in her large colon... so not the exact same circumstance as V). At some point, they finally tried remicade (must have been in it's very early stages???), she had infusions every two months for two years. After that, she stopped the remicade and has been on imuran (my mom didn't know why the switch - I've asked her to ask... and, I just got these details last night). She has been absolutely good since the remicade!!! She looks great, feels good, is retired now and travels all the time! Even though her GI has told her to go ahead and try any/all foods, she's so afraid of going back to those 'bad' days, that she watches her diet - eats fish almost every day, avoids fried or greasy food, seeds, limits certain fruits/veggies, etc. On the occasions that she does go off her diet and has a reaction (not even sure if it is a mild flare), she takes a low dose (5-9mg??) of steroid for a few days until things settle (I'm not encouraging self-medicating! :facepalm:) and it has worked for her! Thus far, she's had no negative side effects from any of her treatments.

This may not be directly relevant to V but it's just another story of these scary drugs doing more good than harm! :ghug: :ghug:
 
Thanks, Tess, I read all the good reports on here over and over these days...you prob do the same.
Let us know when Stephen's first infusion is, not like you won't :D
 
:lol: Oh yeah, like that'll be the day I start worrying about privacy issues!!! :yfaint:

Just know, given that Stephen and Violet seem to be on the same path!!, every thought I have of Stephen includes Violet!!! I'll be stressing with you every day until the 27th!! :ghug: :ghug: :ghug:
 
Good luck with Violet's first infusion
BTW, noticed it was at 1pm. We were told we could not have afternoon appts in the beginning. They had to be in the morning. I asked why cuz we were trying to avoid missing too much school. They said they wanted morning in case there were any reactions that doctors would be more available if it was earlier. Do not want u to stress anymore than u already are, but I thought I should share since you mentioned about allergy testing.
 
I asked for morning. The first appt in the a.m. was in Jan, I wanted the soonest, that's how we got this 1p.m.
It's at the hosp right by the hem/onc clinic so I'm hoping docs shall be within shouting distance.
I am picturing her going into anaphylaxis in the chair. I am such a Debbie Downer.

HA Tess, ME TOO, I think of Stephen's situation and am watching your thread too. I am so glad I have you, sad that to have you means your boy is sick, but if he IS sick, glad I know about you and him...if that makes any sense...:hug:
 
DS will be with V on the 27th - that is his next infusion day scheduled anyways ---

Our infusion clinic is at the end of same day surgery unit so lots of docs-
DS always has two epipens on his person so if there is an Ana I am less inclined to sit and wait for others to find out what to do since I have seen it twice before .

She will do fine on the 27th just don't plan on her moving her arm much since the iv at least for DS is in the elbow area.
Bring lots of food they want them to eat and eat to keep blood sugar up.
They may have buzzy the bee if not ask it makes the iv painless.
Ask about pre meds each doc / clinic has different protocols she will still be on pred so her system will be calmer in terms of allergic reaction.
DS was also given Benadryl and Tylenol on top of his normal daily Zyrtec .
Expect her to be tired afterwards and encourage her to rest and drink a lot even if age doesn't want to.
She may run a low grade fever less than 100.5 f but still mommy warm.
They should. Give you a sheet on what is normal and when to call with a ton of super secret numbers .
Good luck
 
Julie, if this helps at all...

My mom's cousin was diagnosed with crohns at least 10, probably closer to 15, years ago in Portugal. She was in seriously bad shape, is approx. 5'6" and went down to 90 lbs, everything that was tried (and I don't know what was initially tried) failed, her specialist sent her to another specialist because he had run out of ideas, said he'd never had a patient who presented such severe symptoms and did not respond (her crohns is in her large colon... so not the exact same circumstance as V). At some point, they finally tried remicade (must have been in it's very early stages???), she had infusions every two months for two years. After that, she stopped the remicade and has been on imuran (my mom didn't know why the switch - I've asked her to ask... and, I just got these details last night). She has been absolutely good since the remicade!!! She looks great, feels good, is retired now and travels all the time! Even though her GI has told her to go ahead and try any/all foods, she's so afraid of going back to those 'bad' days, that she watches her diet - eats fish almost every day, avoids fried or greasy food, seeds, limits certain fruits/veggies, etc. On the occasions that she does go off her diet and has a reaction (not even sure if it is a mild flare), she takes a low dose (5-9mg??) of steroid for a few days until things settle (I'm not encouraging self-medicating! :facepalm:) and it has worked for her! Thus far, she's had no negative side effects from any of her treatments.

This may not be directly relevant to V but it's just another story of these scary drugs doing more good than harm! :ghug: :ghug:

Tess, thanks for a successful story! I so need them all!

On another note...Kasia just had her second infusion yesterday. All went well! They gave us her blood results from two weeks ago (before the first infusion) and from yesterday. I couldn't believe EVERYTHING was so much better. Everything except iron was in a normal range, B12 was too high - I should stop feeding her B12 and folic acid was too high although we stopped giving her folic acid six months ago (she just gets it with MTX). She also gained 1.2 kg within 2 weeks. I know we still have a long way and could be many bad reactions and other problems but so far I am happy.

I will be thinking of you guys,

Ania
 
Aniuko, Super news!!! It so great to hear when treatments are going well and the kids are getting better!!!! :ghug: :ghug:
 
Oh my goodness Julie, if I am in shock what must you be feeling. My heart breaks for you hun. :ghug::ghug::ghug:

I too can only say not to beat yourself up about this. 20/20 vision in hindsight is such a bitch and lets face it, had you known this would be the outcome you wouldn't have chosen this path.
You and Tess and so many others here have not been on a fool's folly. You have researched, you have questioned, you have debated, you have had the courage of conviction and most importantly of all it was all done under the guidance and supervision of a doctor.
I had it easy and I say that because the decisions were taken out of my hands. For us it was survival or not, not much to think or dwell on there! I don't think it matters whether you have time on your side or not because even though I didn't have a choice I still second guess and think about the what might have beens. what if I had perhaps pushed a little harder here or there, what if I hadn't found a hundred and one reasons why they were tried and so on without one of those reasons being related to illness. I think it boils down to what we as parent's do better than just about anything...guilt! Well maybe I shouldn't generalise and just say that is my excuse! :lol:

Oh man Julie and the rest of you guys. What a bloody difficult and heartbreaking time so many of you are facing...:hug::hug::hug:

I hope the Remicade infusion goes well hun and V responds wonderfully well. :heart:

Sending loads and loads and loads of love, luck and healing thoughts your way!

Dusty. xxx
 
@ania...thanks for the fab update hun. :):):)

May it keep on keeping on!

Onwards and Upwards!
Dusty. xxx
 
HI friends, :heart:
Jeez the threads move fast, when away for a few days there are like 20 new ones.

Found out Remicade infusion is given in ped hem/onc clinic and one of the three pedi oncologists is always in the office seeing pts during infusion hours!
We know two of the three as V had a hem/onc consult at dx, they are STELLAR, love them.

She has had NO bad reaction to Flagyl! Takes it at 6a.m. with pred, empty stomach and all and is fine. Thank GOD.
Her boyfriend is coming with her to the first infusion DEC 27.
Little kids love V and she said she may be able to amuse some of them that are in there getting their chemo with her *sob*. She is such a star herself :medal1:
 
HI friends, :heart:
Jeez the threads move fast, when away for a few days there are like 20 new ones.

Found out Remicade infusion is given in ped hem/onc clinic and one of the three pedi oncologists is always in the office seeing pts during infusion hours!
We know two of the three as V had a hem/onc consult at dx, they are STELLAR, love them.

She has had NO bad reaction to Flagyl! Takes it at 6a.m. with pred, empty stomach and all and is fine. Thank GOD.
Her boyfriend is coming with her to the first infusion DEC 27.
Little kids love V and she said she may be able to amuse some of them that are in there getting their chemo with her *sob*. She is such a star herself :medal1:


Good the hear! I do not take Remicade, but I'm told those who do get benadryl by IV first to help them relax. Many take a nap while the treatment goes on, so I doubt V will be doing much "entertaining" with the poor kids while having tretment :(
 
Hi Hobbes the tiger!
Yep, The Saint said Benadryl first and V HATES Benadryl's effects when she takes it for animal dander exposure. She doesn't want to sleep, says she'll be mad if she falls asleep... I'll get her some caffeine.
 
Watch the caffeine since they really watch heart rate during the infusion .
They want to know what the drugs are really doing
 
MLP, (and thanks for your other post above) her HR is never raised by caffeine, oddly.
We've tried it for vasoconstriction purposes to raise her BP. HR stays the same. Unless she goes from sitting to standing, then the POTS kicks in and it'll go from 80 to oh say 140 in like ten seconds :ywow:
With her diastolic hypotension I can see the infusion nurses furrowing eyebrows already. The first time a nurse at her reg ped couldn't get a diastolic pressure on her at all was amusing (not). I was like, don't be alarmed, happens all the time :shifty:
 
When is she getting her first infusion? Caitlyn never fell asleep from the Benadryl. She always brought her laptop and played on it.
 
Glad she's doing well on the flagyl! :D

:ghug: :ghug: What else can I say... sucks that we all have to be here! :Karl:
 
Good luck for the 27th will be waiting to hear how she does. Keeping my fingers crossed for a smooth infusion with no problems!
 
Benadryl knocks me out every time, but didn't affect Alex at all. He got oral benadryl and tylenol before each infusion. Good luck! I'll be thinking of you guys. My non-IBD son is having his wisdom teeth pulled same day. erk.
 
You guys are so awesome to think of us :soledance:

Infusion went GREAT, not even the slightest blip in her vitals which are monitored q15min, she was checked out by the pedi hem/onc doc prior to starting, who REMEMBERED us from 4.5 years ago, as soon as she walked into the room she recognized us, wow. What a caring doc she is to whom pts obviously are not just cases.

NO IMPROVEMENT, however. NONE.
I am so disappointed. If this goes like Humira I shall lose it.
 
:hang: In there Mum. :hug:

Sending loads of love, luck and healing thoughts your way. :heart:

Dusty. xxx
 
Sending good thoughts your way and like the others said you usually don't see results that fast especially after the loading dose. Give it time. Will be keeping my fingers crossed for her!
 
Sorry to hear you haven't noticed any improvement yet. However she never seems to do things by the book ;), so maybe it will take a few days to notice an effect. Glad the infusion went well.
 
Hi all, I had to go MIA again, too upsetting, I know you guys get it.

V had 6mo f/u with The Saint this week.
She's had two Remicade infusions thus far, no issues.
She's now on SIX drugs in total as he added low dose oral MTX weekly to prevent antibody formation. Pred is now on a fast wean though (5mg every three days) so it'll be 5 drugs soon.

He said the only way we'll know if any good result is happening from any of them wil be another pillcam in six months, as her labs are not reflective of disease activity and she has no gut symptoms.
He switched her f/u to 3mos, she has been on 6mo f/u for years.
Remicade antibodies/therapeutic levels in 3mos is the plan. Pillcam in 6mos, if no change then what...I am scared to consider. Adding wkly injections of MTX at therapeutic dose is likely next step. I'm not down with that.

He again offered second opinion consult with a "guru", research guy he reveres. I declined. He said he keeps this guy up to date on V's case and this plan is what they both agree on.
 
Somehow missed your post all day: :eek:

I'm glad its going well so far!!! :hug: the remicade, mtx, etc is enough to deal with! - try not to borrow trouble wondering if it won't work! :ghug: :ghug: she feels good, looks good and is getting the right treatment! Try to relax and enjoy :hug: :kiss:
 
Last edited:
So scary. I'm sorry to hear it. I'm glad she is outwardly doing so well. I pray that the new meds work and that the small bowel gets better - not worse.
 
Thanks for the update hun...:hug::hug::hug:

It is good to hear that the infusions have gone well and long may that continue! I hope the Pred taper goes well and there are no issues once it is completed. Good luck!

You have both been in my thoughts and will continue to be. :heart:
Dusty. xxx
 
Thinking of you!!! Hope all is continuing to go well with V! :thumright: And you! :ghug:
 
Thanks Tess and all! :rosette1:
V had her third infusion on Friday.
NO ISSUES at all with the infusions. I watch her vitals like a hawk and they remain completely the same throughout. The pedi hem/onc doc checks her each time, she has a room to herself and the nurses are stellar. No post infusion fatigue, no changes whatsoever.

Of course we all know there could easily be internal, unobservable changes. :( and now with MTX added...

The Saint is very pleased as her iron and lactoferrin (only labs that were ever abnormal) are greatly improved: LF is NEGATIVE and iron is finally in normal range. Her hgb which was always LOW NORMAL, like 11/12, jumped to 14. He dropped Flagyl when he saw these results. The presumption is that the internal bleeding that was the reason for the low iron/low norm hgb is lessening.

Cannot really know, though, until the next pillcam which he wants in six months.
 
I'm glad to hear that V's iron has come up, I know you won't know until the pillcam but that sounds like a positive for sure.

C is coming up on the 6 month mark of MTX. He has no issues from the MTX or the Remicade but I was hoping he could come off the MTX at 6 mos, since I've read that protocol but I doubt the doc will be ready for that and I am putting the cart in front of the horse since we don't even know if he will make the full time between infusions...but here's to hoping!

Really glad to hear of the improvement in her iron levels!
 
It's great to hear that she's feeling no effects at all from the infusion! And, while I'm you want those pillcam results NOW :voodoo:, it's certainly a positive sign that her HGB and lactoferrin results have improved!! They are signs you're moving in the right direction. :thumright:

We're STILL on hold with Stephen and, of course, my stomach's always in knots but... you and Violet are doing so well with the remicade, I'm thinking 'if you can do it...'! ;)
 
It's so good to hear some good news !
I'm super happy that the infusions are going so well and there are no visible side effects :)
 
Hey all, small crappy update.
V's lactoferrin being checked weekly for months, went from 0 to 26 to 395 to 5095. Also some TI and LLQ pain.
While on Remicade. And pred. And MTX and Pentasa. Simultaneously.
*sigh*
Before declaring Remicade a fail, she had a draw for antibodies/therapeutic levels. Awaiting results.
A stool panel also to see if the huge jump is from infection. No evidence of it being infection. It is disease progression, I am sure.

Next step is likely inpatient IV steroid blast. Shall be decided next week.
She is running out of drugs to use for sure.
 
Julie, so sorry to hear! :( :(

Assuming she has not built up antibodies, has there been any thoughts to moving up her schedule or dose?

Lots of hugs... know this is hard for you:ghug:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top