Warning: Commercial Dishwashers Can Damage the Gut and Lead to Chronic Disease

[J100]

I think I may have posted this in one of the earlier threads. But if not, here is the link again.

https://scitechdaily.com/warning-co...n-damage-the-gut-and-lead-to-chronic-disease/

 

[J100]

Here is another link

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/

 

[kiny]

Contact with residue found on plates or cutlery after washing them has been talked about on the forum several times and several studies have been posted about it. Surfactants in dishwasher soaps are extremely potent, even in small amounts.

In 2013 I suggested on the forum that people should be put on EN, if only to avoid contact with residue of detergents, regardless of the merits of the theory. However, I was not aware that tolerance for EN among adults was low, I was not even of age back then.

I don't know why everyone isn't put on EN for crohn's disease immediately, it would limit detergents

CD patients using EN generally don't come into contact with this residue, people in developing countries where rates of CD are low have (or at least had) less access to these commercial cleaning products, and it would explain familial clustering because everyone in the household is exposed to the same cleaning products.

I still don't know what to think of this theory, we can only hope it's this simple.

 

[J100]

Contact with residue found on plates or cutlery after washing them has been talked about on the forum several times and several studies have been posted about it. Surfactants in dishwasher soaps are extremely potent, even in small amounts.

In 2013 I suggested on the forum that people should be put on EN, if only to avoid contact with residue of detergents, regardless of the merits of the theory. However, I was not aware that tolerance for EN among adults was low, I was not even of age back then.


CD patients using EN generally don't come into contact with this residue, people in developing countries where rates of CD are low have (or at least had) less access to these commercial cleaning products, and it would explain familial clustering because everyone in the household is exposed to the same cleaning products.

I still don't know what to think of this theory, we can only hope it's this simple.

@kiny - Thanks for your response. Sometimes simple explanations are the best. In the words of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle - "
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. "

Would you happen to know what chemicals in dishwashing tablets could be causing this. I just got ecostore dishwashing tablets with no phosphates, synthetic dyes, synthetic perfumes, polyethylene glycols. Many a times, these products are green washed a branding exercise instead of a product which is easier on the body.

 

[my little penguin]

Ideally you wash the dishes by hand .
This allows you to rinse the residue and reduce what is on the dishes .
Een does not eliminate this because you still need to mix the powder in a container and then wash it afterwards .
Once you have crohns the environmental cause (if any ) is no longer useful.
I subscribe to the genetics theory more especially for infants and children .
Adults it’s more up in the air since you never live in a bubble
Way too many factors to point to one thing .

 

[Scipio]

The linked article is apparently not warning about the dangers of dishwashers used in the home, which usually employ a clear water rinse cycle to remove the detergent. It is warning about the large commercial dishwashers used in restaurants and institutional settings that instead use a chemical rinsing agent to speed up the process.

My home dishwasher uses two water rinse cycles to ensure full removal of the detergent. As far as I can tell, the plates come out as clean and detergent-free as those I wash by hand. I don't know which risk factor(s) triggered my Crohn's in middle age, but I suspect that my dishwasher is not very high on the list.

 

[Happy_]

Ideally you wash the dishes by hand .
This allows you to rinse the residue and reduce what is on the dishes .
Een does not eliminate this because you still need to mix the powder in a container and then wash it afterwards .
Once you have crohns the environmental cause (if any ) is no longer useful.
I subscribe to the genetics theory more especially for infants and children .
Adults it’s more up in the air since you never live in a bubble
Way too many factors to point to one thing .

Genes obviously play a significant role, however something external must be a trigger.

 

[J100]

Genes obviously play a significant role, however something external must be a trigger.

Genes may play a role but so far no specific gene has been singled out or consistently been identified of being the cause. I used to subscribe to the view of genes but I am doubting it day by day.

 

[Happy_]

Genes may play a role but so far no specific gene has been singled out or consistently been identified of being the cause. I used to subscribe to the view of genes but I am doubting it day by day.

It's a polygenic effect, similar to genes -> height relationship - you don't have one gene determinating human's height. It's an aggregated effect of many genes. Concordance in monozygotic vs dizygotic twins points towards strong genetic influence.

 

[J100]

It's a polygenic effect, similar to genes -> height relationship - you don't have one gene determinating human's height. It's an aggregated effect of many genes. Concordance in monozygotic vs dizygotic twins points towards strong genetic influence.

Maybe genes play a role but unless there is conclusive evidence, the discussion can keep on going. I, for one, am of the view that perhaps there are 2 or more factors which can cause Crohn's and that is why finding what triggers Crohn's is so difficult. I had a consult with a geneticist a while ago and he had stated that even if there is a malfunctioning gene (there is no evidence to it as of now), the current treatments for Crohn's will not change. It would be a very satisfying day if the root cause of Crohn's is identified but unfortunately medical science is not there. Who knows how many more years it will take??

 

[my little penguin]

There is a ton of genetic evidence.
Autoimmune genes overlap when you look at them
Which is why the diseases run in families
So you may not have Crohn’s disease in the family but other diseases sit on the same genetic sites .
While it is nice to think
If only you don’t do these two or three things then no Crohn’s …..
Lots of autoimmune diseases on both sides of the family here
Crohns not specifically but plenty of others that sit on similar gene locations
In addition everything I have read the earlier Crohns starts the less environmental and more genetic plays a role .
Which is why the study veo at nih through genetics .

 

[Happy_]

Maybe genes play a role but unless there is conclusive evidence, the discussion can keep on going. I, for one, am of the view that perhaps there are 2 or more factors which can cause Crohn's and that is why finding what triggers Crohn's is so difficult. I had a consult with a geneticist a while ago and he had stated that even if there is a malfunctioning gene (there is no evidence to it as of now), the current treatments for Crohn's will not change. It would be a very satisfying day if the root cause of Crohn's is identified but unfortunately medical science is not there. Who knows how many more years it will take??

We already know it isn't a single faulty gene that's causing this disease. It's the aggregated effect of multiple genes that increases susceptibility to the disease.
However future treatments might be more focused on targeting epigenetic mechanisms.