Camel's milk

[nogutsnoglory]

I am seeing a lot of testimonials and research (not sure of scientific credibility) suggesting camel milk may be a possible supplement to induce remission of CD, UC And many other conditions. I know someone overseas who insists his crohns went away after drinking this stuff daily.

I am desperate to try new things but it seems like its illegal to sell raw camels milk in the US. Some people are selling powder and claiming that's ok. Has anyone tried or looked into this?

 

[Rebecca85]

I'm tempted to call BS on this one. A LOT of websites are claiming that camel's milk cures Crohn's based on a single research study. I think people are just jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[Rebecca85]

Here's the abstract of that one study (couldn't find full text on web). Actually, calling it a study is a but ambitious. It sounds like a piece of observational writing, and the writers seemingly made no claims about camel milk treating Crohn's, never mind curing it.

ETIOLOGY OF CROHN'S DISEASE AND CAMEL MILK TREATMENT

Shabo Y, Barzel R, Yagil R
The etiology of Crohn's disease is presented with increasing evidence that a microbial infection is the basic cause of the disease. There is a striking resemblance between Crohn's disease in humans, assumed to be an autoimmune disease, and Johne's disease in cattle, the latter caused by an infection of Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis (MAP). Camel milk has powerful bactericidal properties and can rehabilitate the immune system. It was observed that drinking non-pasteurised camel milk is beneficial to people with all the variety of symptoms associated with an infection of the alimentary canal
Journal of Camel Practice and Research 15, 2008, 55-59

So they are saying that camel's milk may help people with an infection. Well so might taking Pepto-Bismol, but you don't hear the manufacturers of Pepto claiming to cure Crohn's!

 

[marjory2020]

I would be really hesitant to put stock in these kinds of studies. If alternative, strange treatments are your thing, then I guess by all means go ahead, but it sounds like the results could potentially be disastrous...especially for us sensitive stomach-types!

 

[nogutsnoglory]

I think raw potentially bacteria laden camel milk could be dangerous but on the other hand so many people claim it helps. I am desperate to try things and plus maybe the bacteria is good as it would go with the hygiene hypothesis.

I don't know if I can even find this stuff and if I do not sure I feel safe taking I. I'm going to ask the guy I know who takes it overseas for more info.

 

[sashaz]

Id get the hump if it didnt work.

 

[rygon]

Assuming by your sig that you arent taking any conventional meds? What was the reason for this again?

Its just that you are saying that you are desperate to try anything and going for anything you hear on the grapvine even if it could be potentially dangerous and most probably never been researched with regards to benefits/side effects.

 

[nogutsnoglory]

Assuming by your sig that you arent taking any conventional meds? What was the reason for this again?

Its just that you are saying that you are desperate to try anything and going for anything you hear on the grapvine even if it could be potentially dangerous and most probably never been researched with regards to benefits/side effects.

I have tried all the drugs and find that the side effects are unbearable and that it can treat one problem and cause another. I am much more interested in alternative therapies. That being said I may have to go back on conventional meds.

 

[hugh]

i'd guess it's 99% BS.

If you're serious then go paleo for months, worked for me

 

[nogutsnoglory]

i'd guess it's 99% BS.

If you're serious then go paleo for months, worked for me

What is paleo?

 

[hugh]

a paleo diet avoids the foods we are not evolved to eat,
paleolithic covering the 2,500,000 years before we started the neolithic era of farming (and eating) large amounts of grain,

There are thousands of websites all varying a bit in detail but in essence-
-no sugar, small amounts of honey are ok
-no grain (particularly gluten grains)
-no seed oils (use good olive oil but not for cooking, coconut oil, fat (lamb,beef duck, chicken etc), and ghee - not strictly paleo but generally accepted as ok
-no processed foods - basically nothing out of a packet

Basically MEAT and VEGETABLES, with nuts, eggs and some fruit
ignore the 'low fat' wombats bleating on about lean meat

This one is a good intro - he was hardcore paleo for years but has softened his approach a bit and keeps what works
http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

related articles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KLjgBLwH3Wc
http://scatdog.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/food-allergies-and-autoimmune-thyroid-disease/

i'd recommend a quick google with the any of the following words
autoimmune, leaky gut, wheat, paleo and see what you come up with.

best of luck

 

[nogutsnoglory]

Are there any studies to suggest this diet puts crohns into remission?

 

[D Bergy]

People have been drinking Camels milk as long as there have been Camels. Other than getting kicked by the Camel, I do not see much risk other than the small risk of drinking a raw milk product of any kind.

What is the worst that could happen? It probably will not work, but it is possible that it could. If a shaky treatment just involves eating a certain food that millions eat already, why not try it?

Where the heck would you get it in the U.S?

Cows Milk is the one that is suspect because of the MAP bacteria that survives pastuerization.

Good Luck

Dan

 

[hugh]

Are there any studies to suggest this diet puts crohns into remission?

DISMANTLING A MYTH:
The Role of Fat and Carbohydrates in our Diet
http://www.scdiet.org/7archives/lutz/lutz7.html
by Dr. Med. Wolfgang Lutz

"103 patients suffering from Crohn's disease were treated by a low-carbohydrate diet. After a quarter of year most patients (85 percent) showed remarkable improvement in their health. After half a year, more than 60 percent were asymptomatic, after one year more than 70 percent and after one and a half year about 85 percent. This is in contrast with ulcerose colitis, which Is shown in the lowest line, improvement of which runs much slowlier on the same diet and often is interrupted by relapses.

Crohn's disease generally thought of being incurable can so be shown to be very well accessable to dietary measures. "

do a search......
there are thousands of anecdotal accounts (mine included), covering everything from obesity to auto-immune disease

 

[joeychang]

There is a Healing With Camel's Milk Facebook group, and they have a directory of providers selling it in the U.S.

 

[joeychang]

There are no studies yet on Crohn's, despite what Dr. Yagil would claim (I haven't seen anything besides his quote: ”Personal observations (RY) over the past 5 years suggest that autoimmune diseases are controlled or even healed by drinking camel milk”.

His reasoning for it working on crohn's is based on the theory that MAP is a cause or at least one of the causes of Crohn's, and that camel's milk is used as an anti-TB medication. However, just because it may work against TB wouldn't make it effective necessarily against paratuberculosis. After all, Ioniazid is a common TB drug, and MAP is 100% resistant to it.

 

[joeychang]

Regarding Paleo:

I am on strict paleo and I wanna pose the theory that the effectiveness for crohn's might depend on the severity of leaky gut.

There are certain derivatives of paleo specific to autoimmune disease, incl. (but not limited to) Terry Wahl's, Robb Wolf's, SCD and GAPS diet. All these are spin-offs of paleo for the purpose of leaky gut (as you alluded to above). In general they're much stricter on starch and certain types of carb intakes than paleo (which is more about staying in ketosis and preventing insulin spikes, rather than "all carbs are bad")

I'm particularly interested in SCD legal goat milk yogurt and camel's milk, because those with severe leaky gut often cannot tolerate any dairy with traces of casein or lactose.

 

[nogutsnoglory]

There won't be massive studies because big pharma can't patent camel milk.

 

[joeychang]

Ultimately that won't be what holds camel's milk back. After all, there are already small pilot studies being done (like the one done on 8 children with severe allergies).

Additionally, there was a double-blind study done on the SCD diet by umass (as quoted above) for IBS.

Thirdly, SCD legal goat milk yogurt has become widely touted for LGS patients that can't tolerate casein/lactose.

From an informed patient's standpoint, the lack of peer reviewed double blind studies are no longer the death knell to making informed decisions about a treatment.

 

[nogutsnoglory]

I'm currently on paleo which doesn't allow dairy but id try camel milk if I could find it in the U.S. the thing is I think the benefits are only if you have it raw which can be dangerous.

 

[joeychang]

Based on my time on the Healing With Camel's Milk fb group, some manufacturers do exhaustive testing for pathogens. Does take some research, but definitely feasible to limit the risks.

 

[nogutsnoglory]

Anyone in the Northeast US selling legally?

 

[acheallova]

First off for treatment you need to talk with your GI to determine if you have "auto-immune" Crohns or believe in the ever increasing cause of "MAP". Depending on the views, the treatments are approached totally different. The only for sure way to determine origin is for biopsy to be cultured. The problem with that is that MAP takes anywhere from 12-18+ months to grow. There is increasing studies being done abroad on isolating and staining MAP, but it will be quite some time before this will be in USA. Also, the biopsy and culture would be useless if you have been on antibiotics for weeks prior. I am currently on MAP treatment, having to order my meds from Switzerland via Canada. It has slowed bleeding but not abdominal spasms, severe cramping, minimal bleeding and lots of mucus loss. Extreme weight loss, which I'm trying to stablize with paleo diet and good hydration .

 

[nogutsnoglory]

First off for treatment you need to talk with your GI to determine if you have "auto-immune" Crohns or believe in the ever increasing cause of "MAP". Depending on the views, the treatments are approached totally different. The only for sure way to determine origin is for biopsy to be cultured. The problem with that is that MAP takes anywhere from 12-18+ months to grow. There is increasing studies being done abroad on isolating and staining MAP, but it will be quite some time before this will be in USA. Also, the biopsy and culture would be useless if you have been on antibiotics for weeks prior. I am currently on MAP treatment, having to order my meds from Switzerland via Canada. It has slowed bleeding but not abdominal spasms, severe cramping, minimal bleeding and lots of mucus loss. Extreme weight loss, which I'm trying to stablize with paleo diet and good hydration .

What does MAP treatment consist of? How long have you been paleo?

 

[acheallova]

Diagnosed in May '12, met with my GI in June and was started on zithromax® 250 mg daily, rifampin 300 mg twice daily and biaxin® 500 mg twice daily ( but went into anaphyaxs) so stopped this one and clofazamine 100 mg daily was added. Until i could get clofazamine ( from Switzerland) was put back on flagyl ® 500 mg twice daily and cipro® 500 mg twice daily in addition to the above stated. As you can see, prior to oficial diagnosis i was put on budesonide 9 mg daily ( still taking at that dose) vancomycin, flagyl® and cipro® along with zofran® for my bloody emesis, diflucan® for severe thrush and nystatin ( and yeast infection ). I still don't have much of an appetite so eat little throughout the day but have been on paleo for 3 weeks now when i can eat. I stopped all carbonation as well in May and it has seemed to decrease some of the cramping. I stay hydrated the best i can with gaterade and ensure clear. Hope this helps some. -hugs-

 

[kiny]

T cells cross regulate each other, don't remember what study it was, but if you stimulate T cells in crohn's disease patients (a bacterial infection would do this), their crohn doesn't get worse, it improves because T cells start to regulate each other again. I don't know anything about camel's milk, or that therapy they use with the wurms for crohn, but there is some truth that challenging the immune system in crohn can lead to improvement.

 

[joeychang]

First off for treatment you need to talk with your GI to determine if you have "auto-immune" Crohns or believe in the ever increasing cause of "MAP". Depending on the views, the treatments are approached totally different. The only for sure way to determine origin is for biopsy to be cultured.

Thanks acheallova, that was really helpful and timely, since I'm planning on seeing my first crohns/UC specialist in a few weeks.

 

[nogutsnoglory]

I don't know if a GI would test for this.

 

[acheallova]

It depends how far you want to go for treatment. My GI just relocated to Billings MT, listed in the doctor directory but his partner still resides in TX. HOPE this helps

 

[nogutsnoglory]

There are many testing for many things but the question is whether they are reliable and based in science. I don't know if this theory has a basis and not sure what the different approach to treatment would be.