Daily consumption of fruit/vegetables in OECD countries and crohn's disease prevalence.

[kiny]

Lack of fruits/vegetables and specifically the subsequent association with lack of fiber intake is often blamed on the increasing prevalence of crohn's disease. Especially after a study a few years ago came out suggesting lack of fiber intake was associated with later development of crohn's disease. In Japan this theory is also popular, supposed Western diets are the cause of the increase in crohn's disease by some.

I have posted 2 large-scale studies in the past that debunked this theory and where no negative association with fruits/vegetables and fiber intake and the prevalence of crohn's disease was found. But this theory that high fiber intake is protective against onset of crohn's disease keeps being parroted. Studies were prebiotics like inulin worsen disease activity are often ignored. Not to mention the complete lack of fiber in EN.

This data was in the news lately, an OECD study that shows fruits, vegetables and dietary fiber intake of individual OECD countries. Even though the data is self-reported, almost all these studies are self-reported. The fact it is a combination of 2019 Eurostat and EHIS data makes it pretty much the most reliable large-scale data you can find.

Countries with high intake of fruits/vegetables do not have lower incidence of crohn's disease. Quite the opposite, prevalence of crohn's diseasse is the highest in the world in Canada. In Europe, the UK, northern France, the Netherlands and Denmark have the highest rates of crohn's disease. These countries have some of the highest intake of fruits/vegetables and as I showed in previous discussions, fiber. The only outlier being Sweden. Eastern European countries and mediterranean countries have surprisingly low intakes of fruits and vegetables, and very low incidence of crohn's disease.

This supposed link between vegetables, fruits and fiber intake and negative incidence of crohn's disease, is very questionable.


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[kiny]

At the extreme ends of the spectrum. The lowest intake of fiber was found in Argentina. School aged children (10-12) have a daily fiber intake of 5-9 grams per day. The highest intake of fiber was found in school aged children in Denmark, 19 grams of daily fiber intake, Denmark has some Europe's highest incidence of crohn's disease, multiple times that of Argentina. All the available data I can possibly find does not support the idea that fiber intake is protective against crohn's disease onset, or that a Western diet lacking in fruits or vegetables can be linked to an increase in crohn's disease prevalence.

 

[Mommabear]

Wow, this is very interesting and completely contradicts the current dogma.

 

[cheka]

just taking a wild guess -- how about one on the antibiotics in each country's foodstuffs and antibiotic usage in their healthcare? antibiotics are no bueno for gut health, aka, our immune system. 70-80 percent of our immune system is in our guts -- and key players are the bacteria in our intestines.

other things that harm the gut that could explain the statistics
fake sugars
fried oils - fried food or junk food
nsaid pain relievers - advil, aleve, aspirin, etc
booze
some pharma

 

[cheka]

on plant fiber --- plant fiber is beneficial gut bacteria food. the good bugs need a variety of plant fibers to thrive, so you can thrive

 

[kiny]

on plant fiber --- plant fiber is beneficial gut bacteria food.

EN, highly processed and completely lacking in fiber, leads to 85%+ remission rates, often including fistula closure.

Fiber-rich "natural" plant diets do not lead to remission.

the good bugs need a variety of plant fibers to thrive, so you can thrive

The "good bugs" theory failed. Probiotics don't work. Prebiotics don't work. Fecal transplants lead to disastrous results where calprotectin and CRP in patients shot up and studies had to be terminated.

Studies show a lot of animals without "the good bugs" that have transient microbiomes and low bacterial load, don't heave nearly the same rate of intestinal diseases that species with "good bugs" have.

 

[cheka]

kiny -- this is an emerging science. we are in the trial and error stage. fast forward 10 years will be a different story

crohns and similar have gut dysbiosis, aka, a bad mix of bacteria in the intestines. this imo is the problem to solve.

 

[kiny]

Billions of have been spent on microbiome research, probiotics, prebiotic and fecal tranplant research. It has not helped a single person with crohn's disease.

People with crohn's disease are not guinea pigs, there's no room for "trial and error". These are errors and experiments people with crohn's disease can not afford.

When 1 in 5 patients have a severe flare requiring escalation of anti-inflammatories, after a fecal transplant, maybe some of these "good bugs GI" should end up in jail instead of doing experiments.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6620877/

"Her fecal calprotectin increased from 475 to >2000 µg/g. CRP increased from 2 to 15.5 mg/l and HBI increased from 3 to 16.

CRP increased from 18.3 to 33.1 mg/l.

Two patients in this cohort experienced adverse events requiring escalation of therapy within a few days of FMT that prompted early termination of the study.

Single-dose FMT in this cohort of CD patients showed modest effect and potential for harm."

 

[cheka]

your study is part of the trial and error. that mix of bugs or delivery method didnt work. they are on the right path though. i favor working from the mouth - esp since there are really good bugs that sail through the stomach acid unharmed. there are also new ways to help the fragile bugs get through.

the bifid family of bugs are CRITICAL for crohns and everything else

 

[Scipio]

crohns and similar have gut dysbiosis, aka, a bad mix of bacteria in the intestines. this imo is the problem to solve.

It's pretty well established that Crohn's patients very commonly have gut dysbiosis. What is far less clear is which is the cause and which is the effect? Assuming that there is a cause-and-effect relationship between Crohn's disease and the gut microbiome and not merely a statistical association, does the gut dysbiosis cause the Crohn's disease? Or does having Crohn's disease generate the gut dysbiosis?

We currently cannot answer this question. We can't say whether a cause-and-effect relationship even exists in the first place. We are stuck back at the statistical association starting gate. And until can we figure out a safe, reliable, and reproducible way to modify the gut to achieve a durable target gut microbe population, the controlled, randomized, double-blind clinical trials required to show cause-and-effect will remain undoable.

And thus we will remain stuck where we are now: stirring a pot of theory, anecdote, and testimonial - spiced with an occasional dash of statistical association data (and zero causation data) and hoping for the best.

 

[cheka]

they are starting to catch on. mouse model shows cause.

https://gut.bmj.com/content/65/2/225
Dysbiotic gut microbiota causes transmissible Crohn's disease-like ileitis independent of failure in antimicrobial defence

Conclusions We provide clear experimental evidence for the causal role of gut bacterial dysbiosis in the development of chronic ileal inflammation with subsequent failure of Paneth cell function.

 

[cheka]

another research group naming gut dysbiosis in the cause

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmed.2022.887044/full
Markedly, the gut microbiota has been implicated in the initiation and perpetuation of IBD. Infusion of luminal content into both mice models (13). and into the excluded ileum after a surgical diversion in patients with CD (14). triggers a rapid response in the mucosal immune system. This data suggests that commensal bacteria and dietary components can trigger the inflammatory response seen in CD (13, 14). The chronic intestinal inflammation and subsequent damage of the intestinal mucosa in IBD is associated with dysbiosis in the structure of the microbiota. Studies have confirmed that reduced diversity and dysbiosis of the gut microbiota are more pronounced in CD compared to ulcerative colitis (UC), a different sub-type of IBD (11, 15).

 

[kiny]

Koch's postulates exist to avoid a dangerous thought process, to avoid creating situations where patients would end up being guinea pigs as a result of bad conclusions.

Dysbiosis is a common feature of any inflammatory reaction to antigen, certain bacteria bloom under inflammatory conditions, others do not, and this shifts microbial populations.

However, dysbiosis has never been the cause in any of those diseases. Not in foodborne infection, not in intestinal TB, not in primary immunodeficiency diseases, not in celiac disease. All these diseases involving intestinal inflammation feature dysbiosis. But none of them are caused by dysbiosis, and none of them can be cured or are helped through probiotics, prebiotics, or increased dietary fiber intake.

Dysbiosis has been linked to almost any disease under the sun, but in none of them a causal relationship can be found, and in none of them probiotics are able to show a benefit. That is in spite of a massive $60 billion probiotics industry that has funded thousands of studies trying to prove that the microbiome can be manipulated to a host's benefit by chugging down probiotics.

So be mindful before attributing dysbiosis to a causal relationship, while suggesting people should consume fiber.

The main recommendation for crohn's disease is still low residue diets one can easily digest, and enteral nutrition. There is no recommendation people should take probiotics or increase fiber intake.

63 different brands of EN have been tried to date, all of them lead to remission in the large majority of patients with crohn's disease. All of them either completely lacked fiber or had negligible amounts of fiber compared to a regular diet. The "feed the bugs with fiber" and "eat more fiber" argument so common in the media nowadays, is not on the side of evidence, certainly not in crohn's disease, quite to the contrary.


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[kiny]

Another thing, probiotics are not "harmless". Infections following use of over-the-counter probiotics are well documented and more common than people realise, in both children and adults.

When people with crohn's disease come onto this forum seeking advice regarding colonoscopy results indicative of intestinal infection, it should not be discounted that the use of probiotics can cause local infections.

Crohn's disease involves innate immunodeficiencies, people are often on immune modulating medication, and chugging down thousands of bacteria is not without risk.

Probiotics are not recommended for crohn's disease. There is no evidence they help, and they are potentially harmful.


Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG bacteraemia associated with probiotic use in child with short
gut syndrome.
https://journals.lww.com/pidj/fullt...us_rhamnosus_gg_bacteremia_associated.22.aspx

Saccharomyces cerevisiae fungemia after Saccharomyces boulardii treatment in immunocompromised patients
https://journals.lww.com/jcge/fulltext/2003/01000/saccharomyces_cerevisiae_fungemia_after.13.aspx

Infectious complications following probiotic ingestion: a potentially underestimated
problem? A systematic review of reports and case series
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6292120/pdf/12906_2018_Article_2394.pdf

 

[Guerrero]

Another thing, probiotics are not "harmless". Infections following use of over-the-counter probiotics are well documented and more common than people realise, in both children and adults.

When people with crohn's disease come onto this forum seeking advice regarding colonoscopy results indicative of intestinal infection, it should not be discounted that the use of probiotics can cause local infections.

Crohn's disease involves innate immunodeficiencies, people are often on immune modulating medication, and chugging down thousands of bacteria is not without risk.

Probiotics are not recommended for crohn's disease. There is no evidence they help, and they are potentially harmful.

Hi kiny, thank you for your contributions, but what are your titles or professional role?
You are confronting many studies or evidences, on a patient forum, why not directly with doctors?
What do you expect from us?

 

[cheka]

kiny - your post number 13 proves my point. the sick cant process those correctly because of their gut dysbiosis, as stated by the study. gut dysbiosis is the cause of virtually all autoimmune diseases, including crohns. that's great news, as it matters not which autoimmune disease one has -- the way to make it disappear is the same for all of them.

making dysbiosis disappear

1. eat the bugs - take beneficial bugs that have been proven in trials/studies
2. feed the bugs - various plant fibers. recommend 3 fruits, 3 veggies per day minimum. bugs eat these and produce beneficial biochems
3. protect the bugs - avoid the things that harm the bugs, cause dysbiosis - fried foods, junk foods, booze, fake sugar, nsaid pain relievers

kiny, you are working downstream of the cause. dysbiosis causes all of the bad things you are listing. address the dysbiosis and those problems go away.

 

[cheka]

add this to the study in the op

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/06/infant-gut-microbiome-breast-milk.html
Infants in industrialized nations are losing a species of gut bacteria that digests breast milk

Stanford Medicine researchers and colleagues found that as nations industrialize, a species of bacteria critical in the early development of infant gut microbiomes fades away.

The guts of infants are nearly sterile at birth, but they become a community of trillions of microbial cells, known as the microbiome, by the time they reach adulthood. For infants who are breastfed, their health is off to a solid start with milk that provides nutrients for good bacteria that fight off pathogens.

But, according to a study led by researchers at Stanford Medicine, the bacteria efficient at digesting breast milk are being lost as nations industrialize. Because no other bacteria are as adept at digesting milk, researchers are concerned this bacterial exodus could mean rising cases of conditions common in the industrialized world, such as chronic inflammation.

The study found that bacteria in the genus Bifidobacterium — good bacteria that live in the intestines — are the most prevalent species in the microbiome of infants less than 6 months old around the world — regardless of whether they are fed breast milk or formula. Researchers discovered that a species called Bifidobacterium infantis (or B. infantis) — known to efficiently break down a special class of breast milk sugars known as oligosaccharides, as well as boost the immune system and bacterial microbiome development — dominates the gut microbiome of infants in nonindustrialized societies.

In contrast, Bifidobacterium breve, a species with limited capacity to break down milk sugars, is the most prevalent species in infants of industrialized nations.

more at link...

 

[cheka]

yet another group of researchers assert that wrecked gut and leaky gut precede (cause) ibd. my bold

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsomega.3c07529
Inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) is a chronic inflammation of the gut caused by genetic variation, adverse environmental factors, dysbiosis of the gut microbiota, and dysregulated immune responses. (1) Before IBD develops, dysfunction of intestinal mucosal immunity occurs, including impairment of the gut barrier function and overactivation of the pro-inflammatory immune response, leading to chronic inflammation of the intestine.

Goblet cells and MUC2 protein production are reduced in IBD patients (3−5) and the apical junctional complex between adjacent intestinal epithelial cells is dissociated, (6) leading to impaired gut barrier function and increased intestinal permeability. (6) After the gut barrier is impaired, a large number of bacteria in the gut lumen penetrate the intestinal mucosal layer, triggering the polarization of macrophages into the pro-inflammatory M1 phenotype and the secretion of chemokines that cause large numbers of neutrophils to infiltrate the intestinal mucosa and submucosa, resulting in the accumulation of many neutrophils and M1 macrophages in intestinal tissue. The free radicals generated by these innate immune cells are the main factor causing damage to intestinal tissue.

 

[Veske]

It's like you two are from different planets? This discussion will obviously never get anywhere.

 

[cheka]

It's like you two are from different planets? This discussion will obviously never get anywhere.

we are learning from each other. which is making us better

in all fairness, my stuff is outside of the mainstream and not well known, an emerging science that is just now gaining traction. the future is blindingly bright with the microbiome stuff.

 

[Guerrero]

Another thing, probiotics are not "harmless". Infections following use of over-the-counter probiotics are well documented and more common than people realise, in both children and adults.

When people with crohn's disease come onto this forum seeking advice regarding colonoscopy results indicative of intestinal infection, it should not be discounted that the use of probiotics can cause local infections.

Crohn's disease involves innate immunodeficiencies, people are often on immune modulating medication, and chugging down thousands of bacteria is not without risk.

Probiotics are not recommended for crohn's disease. There is no evidence they help, and they are potentially harmful.


Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG bacteraemia associated with probiotic use in child with short
gut syndrome.
https://journals.lww.com/pidj/fullt...us_rhamnosus_gg_bacteremia_associated.22.aspx

Saccharomyces cerevisiae fungemia after Saccharomyces boulardii treatment in immunocompromised patients
https://journals.lww.com/jcge/fulltext/2003/01000/saccharomyces_cerevisiae_fungemia_after.13.aspx

Infectious complications following probiotic ingestion: a potentially underestimated
problem? A systematic review of reports and case series
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6292120/pdf/12906_2018_Article_2394.pdf

Vsl#3 which is a probiotic is used for crohns, and recommended by doctors in top tier hospitals as it helps with dysbiosis.

A lot of clinical trials are going on regarding gut microbiome. Lot of scientists are spending money and time on research.

 

[my little penguin]

Vsl#3 original formula that has all the studies backing it is visobiome now
Currently vsl#3 is different formula than what was studied
My adult child has been on visobiome for close to 10 years -helps with rectal inflammation in his crohns

 

[cheka]

Vsl#3 which is a probiotic is used for crohns, and recommended by doctors in top tier hospitals as it helps with dysbiosis.

A lot of clinical trials are going on regarding gut microbiome. Lot of scientists are spending money and time on research.

the future is bright! pro tip --- when medical says they dont know what causes it ---- or that 'genetics' causes it........more than likely it's gut dysbiosis/leaky gut. they are slooooowly figuring it out. the scientific papers/trials is where to find the hot/new info. the local doctor is far removed from this miraculous emerging science - typically not going to get any help there

 

[westernbuddy]

As a crohns patient feeling my symptoms I'm fairly certain it's not dysbiosis/leaky gut and feeding myself with various plant fibers will only make things worse.

You can control symptoms watching what you eat. But it sadly does not cure the disease.

Food or diet is not the cure, supplemtns are not the cure, this is one thing we can all get and try without a perscription and it never cancels out crohns disease.

We are due some new breakthroughs in research however with all the latest technology we have.

 

[cheka]

As a crohns patient feeling my symptoms I'm fairly certain it's not dysbiosis/leaky gut and feeding myself with various plant fibers will only make things worse.

You can control symptoms watching what you eat. But it sadly does not cure the disease.

Food or diet is not the cure, supplemtns are not the cure, this is one thing we can all get and try without a perscription and it never cancels out crohns disease.

We are due some new breakthroughs in research however with all the latest technology we have.

sequence matters

feeding a bad gut fiber is skipping some steps. the fiber is to feed the good guys. we need to get them powered up first. the bad guys are in control now.

step one - kill the bad guys in the small intestine (fix sibo). work on leaky gut.

step two - populate the large intestine with good guys. work on leaky gut.

step three - feed the good guys fiber/etc - which they eat and crank out scfa/butyrate - which makes crohns go away (and many other things too)

 

[my little penguin]

Disagree more than a few crohns folks were officially dx with sibo in addition to crohns and treating /eliminating sibo does not eliminate crohns .

“leaky gut” is a catch all

 

[cheka]

sequence

1. deal with sibo and leaky gut (small intestines). bad guys are there, doing bad guy things. they arent supposed to be there.
2. continue leaky gut repair, repopulate system with good guys, esp the bifid family of bugs

autoimmunes gone. been there, done that for crohns, severe inflammatory arthritis, vertigo, psoriasis, anxiety/panic, more...

all have the same cause -- gut dybiosis/leaky gut. this goes for the majority of chronic diseases, esp autoimmunes. that's the beauty of it -- it matters not what your 'diagnosis' is. how to make them disappear is the same

 

[asadmom]

sequence

1. deal with sibo and leaky gut (small intestines). bad guys are there, doing bad guy things. they arent supposed to be there.
2. continue leaky gut repair, repopulate system with good guys, esp the bifid family of bugs

autoimmunes gone. been there, done that for crohns, severe inflammatory arthritis, vertigo, psoriasis, anxiety/panic, more...

all have the same cause -- gut dybiosis/leaky gut. this goes for the majority of chronic diseases, esp autoimmunes. that's the beauty of it -- it matters not what your 'diagnosis' is. how to make them disappear is the same

You should publish. You will make a lot of money.

 

[cheka]

You should publish. You will make a lot of money.

lol

i'm publishing here. doing what God has called me to do - spread this crucial information to as much of humanity as i can reach, to help them reduce/end their suffering.

if one is unsure about a supreme being/creation -- study the human body. it is AMAZING. a single liver cell is involved in HUNDREDS of biochemical processes.........DOING ALL OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME. the complexity and intelligence of our bodies is beyond what all of humanity and all of the supercomputers can comprehend. randomness doesnt create complexity, it dismantles it.

it's patently obvious that the body is a self-healing entity. it does it all day every day. all we have to do is give it what it needs. and it's never sick because of a lack of methotrexate or prednisone.

 

[westernbuddy]

I have not yet seen anyone here who is buying into this theory, ? And there is some very clever people here who have had crohns for decades.

 

[cheka]

I have not yet seen anyone here who is buying into this theory, ? And there is some very clever people here who have had crohns for decades.

that's common. this is an emerging science. people trust the medical people that they hire to do work for them. in the case of chronic diseases this is a disaster. medical is an abject failure at preventing/reversing chronic disease -- see the miserable statistics. they excel at hero medicine though - surgeries, bones, etc. that is their sphere of competence. they arent taught anything about the stuff i'm posting about.

i had to teach it to my rheumy -- and she was a freshly minted rheumy not far removed from her education in nyc. the fact that someone in her specialty knows NOTHING about this stuff is mind-blowing. if any specialty should know it, it's rheumatology.

you can wait around 10 years for pfizer to come out with a pill of bacillus coagulans, or you can take the research and heal yourself and those around you now. liberty first -- i respect one's right to choose their own path. i'm here to OFFER another option. take it or leave it, i'm healing people.

to the skeptical or the lazy -- i beg them to just do one thing - take one capsule of swanson brand bacillus coagulans per day. i've been able to help those types of people with that alone. it's not ideal, but it's the best i can do for people with those attitudes.

 

[cheka]

I have not yet seen anyone here who is buying into this theory, ? And there is some very clever people here who have had crohns for decades.

my story -- suffered from crohns for years, never went to doctor, just self medicated. then the severe inflammatory arthitis crippled me. time to go to the doctor.

went to gp. he said you will be on RA drugs for life, pick one. went to rheumy -- same story.

arrogance and stubborness led me to tell everyone around me -- i'm finding the cause and i'm going to cure myself. not sure if they believed me. until i did it. family was flabbergasted at what i had done.

i read all of the mainstream groupthink about RA that proved to be pathetically inaccurate and hopeless. eventually i stumbled onto this gut stuff. this was about a year of studying many hours per day. the info was not easy to find -- the deluge of ignorance crowding out the real deal. the gut stuff worked like a miracle. i then doubled down on my studies, and that's still going -- about 4 years now of studying this stuff every day.

you are talking to a leading expert on this stuff - it would be hard to find someone that's done that work that i have - and that includes all medical specialties. hit me with challenges/questions/insults -- all of them drive me to the research to see what the latest science says. i welcome it all -- i want to go back and forth, it drives excellence.

i have been responding/helping members via pm. my inbox is open to all -- drop me a pm if you have questions or insults . hope to hear from you!

 

[my little penguin]

@asadmom
To publish anything you have to meet scientific rigor of experiment.
Meaning your experiments are controlled and what you are trying to prove is actually a direct result of what you’re doing.
Pulling various research papers and conducting your own experiments in your own kitchen will not meet any scientific standard.
I am not saying this practice of diet doesn’t work for some few lucky ones
But it is not a “fix “ for most and not to be used by children unless the Gi in charge of their care agrees to monitor it /instruct the parents what to watch for .
I have published (not for medical ) and pulling papers /pulling quotes to prove something is not the same thing.

no matter what always discuss any changes with meds or diet including supplements with your Gi .
Some natural things can do more harm Than good - make sure the medical team is aware and approves.

 

[my little penguin]

@cheka
You state it works but haven been to a doctor or Gi .
Has your imaging /scopes been clear of inflammation? When was that last done ?
Fecal caloprotectin levels normal ?
Bloodwork is that normal ?
If you are not under a doctors care (Gi and rheumatologist not gp ) how are you measuring success ?
Symptoms alone ?
Symptoms can be deceptive in crohns
You can feel fine but be a mess on the inside .

 

[asadmom]

@asadmom
To publish anything you have to meet scientific rigor of experiment.
Meaning your experiments are controlled and what you are trying to prove is actually a direct result of what you’re doing.
Pulling various research papers and conducting your own experiments in your own kitchen will not meet any scientific standard.
I am not saying this practice of diet doesn’t work for some few lucky ones
But it is not a “fix “ for most and not to be used by children unless the Gi in charge of their care agrees to monitor it /instruct the parents what to watch for .
I have published (not for medical ) and pulling papers /pulling quotes to prove something is not the same thing.

no matter what always discuss any changes with meds or diet including supplements with your Gi .
Some natural things can do more harm Than good - make sure the medical team is aware and approves.

You are taking my words too literally. When I said "publish", I meant announce it to the world thru whatever medium that makes sense to him.

 

[westernbuddy]

Yes and what forum members have been sending pms and what are the results, from long standing form members, there was a link to an amazon product in one of the posts and that makes me very sceptical. Who is the brand owner of that amazon link and what is the association.

 

[cheka]

Yes and what forum members have been sending pms and what are the results, from long standing form members, there was a link to an amazon product in one of the posts and that makes me very sceptical. Who is the brand owner of that amazon link and what is the association.

i'm the same way. i would take the ingredients and research them, ignoring the brand altogether.

 

[cheka]

@cheka
You state it works but haven been to a doctor or Gi .
Has your imaging /scopes been clear of inflammation? When was that last done ?
Fecal caloprotectin levels normal ?
Bloodwork is that normal ?
If you are not under a doctors care (Gi and rheumatologist not gp ) how are you measuring success ?
Symptoms alone ?
Symptoms can be deceptive in crohns
You can feel fine but be a mess on the inside .

the first thing to resolve was the persistent loose stools. i was going many times every day. terrible consistency. the hemorrhoids went away too. i need to thank God every day for that. i could not shake these two issues for years.

prednisone had handled the attacks on my joints. i tapered nice and slow down to zero. one flare along the way. i was now drug free and no symptoms of either problem.

began working on walking normally and repairing the extensive damage to my knees, ankles, shoulder, elbow. that was april 2022. i'm at my two year anniversary of being drug free. in those two years i've gone from hobbling around to playing basketball and lifting weights. i look like a different person -- people i know well dont recognize me. i feel and look like a million bucks. every thing is humming along - zero health issues/symptoms

i think a key to my success has been staying on the program (mostly) that turned it around. the foods, the supplements, etc. i still eat clean and make my bugs happy. i consider myself a bug farmer -- what they want i give them, what hurts them i avoid

i measure my success now by how many 3 pointers i make and how many people i can help with their suffering

 

[my little penguin]

To be clear you have not been followed by a Gi and have not had any testing imaging or scopes or bloodwork done to confirm your diet is working .
Abd during the time your diet was working you were also on steroids but are no longer on steroids

please see a Gi to make sure your diet is in fact working and not permitting damage to be on going
More than a few folks here had diarrhea or bloody stool stop as a symptom or had no symptoms and still had damage inside .

 

[my little penguin]

One last question
Were you diagnosed with Crohn’s disease by a Gi from a scope /biopsy/imaging ?
If so when and what were the biopsy results /imaging results ?

not all Crohn’s is equally and knowing where /when your disease started may be helpful .

 

[cheka]

One last question
Were you diagnosed with Crohn’s disease by a Gi from a scope /biopsy/imaging ?
If so when and what were the biopsy results /imaging results ?

not all Crohn’s is equally and knowing where /when your disease started may be helpful .

never went to the doctor or told a doctor about the crohns. didnt go to the doctor until i had laid in bed for 6 months with the inflammatory arthritis, eating advil like candy, worsening my leaky gut. at that point i had been fighting the crohns for a few years (not sure how long). the pain became excruciating as my body ate up my joints. i was stupid for a looong time by not going to the doctor. could have saved a lot of joint damage. finally went to an urgent care to get the ball rolling.

looking back, i gave my rheumatologist the solution to the problem on a silver platter. my first meeting with her i told her that every time i eat i get a fever. knowing what i know now, that SCREAMS leaky gut. the food/etc was getting into the bloodstream causing the fever. when i told her about the fever she just shrugged it off with no comment.

 

[westernbuddy]

To anyone sending cheka private messages please don't go purchasing anything recommended in links, I just see to many red flags with every post.

 

[my little penguin]

Here is the thing
A rheumatologist can not diagnose Crohn’s disease
A pcp can not diagnose Crohn’s disease
And an individual can not self diagnose Crohn’s disease

Only a GI can diagnosis Crohn’s but you must have scopes with biopsy and imaging confirming Crohn’s disease.

without these tests or proof of damage
Having diarrhea and abdominal pain is ONLY IBS
Irritable bowel syndrome
Ibs can be fixed by diet and is not the same as Crohn’s disease
Ibs can be as miserable if not more miserable than Crohn’s disease in terms of symptoms
But the two are not the same disease

your treatment is probably great for ibs
But unless a GI diagnosed you
Please do not say you have Crohn’s disease and found a fix for it

 

[westernbuddy]

Also conflicting info coming from your messages that I'm observing and will post them all in bulk as they build up more.

 

[cheka]

Also conflicting info coming from your messages that I'm observing and will post them all in bulk as they build up more.

you are on the wrong track. you think a salesman would spend all of this time/effort to sell a few bottles of cheap supplements? i could make more money picking up cans on the side of the road

 

[cheka]

Here is the thing
A rheumatologist can not diagnose Crohn’s disease
A pcp can not diagnose Crohn’s disease
And an individual can not self diagnose Crohn’s disease

Only a GI can diagnosis Crohn’s but you must have scopes with biopsy and imaging confirming Crohn’s disease.

without these tests or proof of damage
Having diarrhea and abdominal pain is ONLY IBS
Irritable bowel syndrome
Ibs can be fixed by diet and is not the same as Crohn’s disease
Ibs can be as miserable if not more miserable than Crohn’s disease in terms of symptoms
But the two are not the same disease

your treatment is probably great for ibs
But unless a GI diagnosed you
Please do not say you have Crohn’s disease and found a fix for it

ibs doesnt have fever as a symptom. crohns does. every time i ate i got a fever. i'm sticking with my call.

 

[westernbuddy]

You don't get a fever with crohns every time you eat, a fever and crohns are very differnt.

So your not diagnosed by any doctor and you think supliments are the cure to a disease that can be debilitating and need extreme surgery to repair ?

 

[my little penguin]

Your inflammatory arthritis does cause fevers with arthritis flares AND the nsaids on there own will cause GI symptoms
Large amounts taken for arthritis definitely will cause GI symptoms
But that is NOT Crohn’s disease
Additionally spondyloarthritis is known to have sub clinical GI inflammation (again not Crohn’s disease ) in some

you can’t self diagnose Crohn’s disease
And then treat your inflammatory arthritis and suddenly say you cured your Crohn’s
You need to be diagnosed by a doctor

Crohns that is under treated or miss treated can result in death or severely limited quality of life
That is NOT something you can state you have simply by symptoms without a GI diagnosis .

 

[Crohn2357]

Also conflicting info coming from your messages that I'm observing and will post them all in bulk as they build up more.

I also think I have seen contradictory statements from him regarding his personal/medical history, and I would encourage you to post them as they build up more. I would also urge an admin to go through his private messages to make sure he is not trying to lure desperate people for personal gains. Where’s @David? What happened to him?

https://crohnsforum.com/members/david.1/
Maybe he doesn’t have any ill intentions and has been posting all these silly things (regarding “good/bad” bacteria and sibo as the cause etc.) with the only thought in his mind that he found the holistic answer to many chronic problems and he wants to share what he thinks will help people be free of misery; or maybe there are other, sinister motives at play here and he is using this platform to realize them. That’s why I urge an admin to go through his private messages, in detail, ASAP.

What he has been promoting is harmful and dangerous for Crohn’s patients, that’s why I created this thread 4 days ago to counter those ideas.

https://crohnsforum.com/threads/gut-sterilization-for-crohn’s-disease-theoretical-cure.87476/
Anyone who has done at least some research into these topics and is able to ask questions, and reason through the key findings/ideas would/should eventually come to the conclusion that for a person with “leaky gut”, the last thing you want is to increase the bacterial populations. Nobody in this world understands the complexity of host-microbiome interactions to any significant degree, but many research findings especially outside Crohn’s research confirm that the gut of individual animals that have the least bacterial populations are the ones that are the healthiest, and vice versa. The prevailing “distinction” between good and bad bacteria is created by people with monetary interests in creating a market for products to sell, and supported by their or general subservient researchers, institutions etc. Remember “manufacturing consent”; always follow the money. The journals, institutions, textbooks, guidebooks, platforms etc. are all owned and continuously controlled and created by moneyed interests. It’s the same with FMT, that was, not long ago, a dangerous hype. It still is. One should wonder how many people were seriously harmed by that.

Giving people with Crohn’s FMT is akin to putting fuel on fire. Especially when you take into consideration the facts that bacterial load is the most important cause of inflammation; also the innate immunodeficiency, the chronic use of immunosuppressants, the intestinal permeability problem etc. in Crohn’s patients.

Source: https://crohnsforum.com/threads/rem...tory-bowel-diseases.85089/page-2#post-1021128

 

[cheka]

You don't get a fever with crohns every time you eat, a fever and crohns are very differnt.

So your not diagnosed by any doctor and you think supliments are the cure to a disease that can be debilitating and need extreme surgery to repair ?

doctors/medical have failed everybody here, no? arguing on their behalf of their treatments/logic/diagnosis is silly. crohns is the closest match to the symptoms i had. end of story.

medical has failed miserably at reversing all dysbiosis caused diseases. the info i'm presenting offers another option. the suffering, at their wits end with the failure of doctors, might want to consider it. after the failure of my docs i searched and found another/better way. the only reason i'm here is to share the science of what medical is ignorant of. they'll come around as soon as pfizer, etc start selling the same stuff for 100x the price

too, arguing about labels is useless, even counterproductive. the diseases in question all have the same root cause -- gut dysbiosis. that's where my focus is. i'm not going to spill any more keystrokes on time wasters like this. there are plenty of other people for you to argue with on the internet. good luck.

 

[cheka]

I also think I have seen contradictory statements from him regarding his personal/medical history, and I would encourage you to post them as they build up more. I would also urge an admin to go through his private messages to make sure he is not trying to lure desperate people for personal gains. Where’s @David? What happened to him?

https://crohnsforum.com/members/david.1/
Maybe he doesn’t have any ill intentions and has been posting all these silly things (regarding “good/bad” bacteria and sibo as the cause etc.) with the only thought in his mind that he found the holistic answer to many chronic problems and he wants to share what he thinks will help people be free of misery; or maybe there are other, sinister motives at play here and he is using this platform to realize them. That’s why I urge an admin to go through his private messages, in detail, ASAP.

What he has been promoting is harmful and dangerous for Crohn’s patients, that’s why I created this thread 4 days ago to counter those ideas.

https://crohnsforum.com/threads/gut-sterilization-for-crohn’s-disease-theoretical-cure.87476/
Anyone who has done at least some research into these topics and is able to ask questions, and reason through the key findings/ideas would/should eventually come to the conclusion that for a person with “leaky gut”, the last thing you want is to increase the bacterial populations. Nobody in this world understands the complexity of host-microbiome interactions to any significant degree, but many research findings especially outside Crohn’s research confirm that the gut of individual animals that have the least bacterial populations are the ones that are the healthiest, and vice versa. The prevailing “distinction” between good and bad bacteria is created by people with monetary interests in creating a market for products to sell, and supported by their or general subservient researchers, institutions etc. Remember “manufacturing consent”; always follow the money. The journals, institutions, textbooks, guidebooks, platforms etc. are all owned and continuously controlled and created by moneyed interests. It’s the same with FMT, that was, not long ago, a dangerous hype. It still is. One should wonder how many people were seriously harmed by that.



Source: https://crohnsforum.com/threads/rem...tory-bowel-diseases.85089/page-2#post-1021128

claiming that there is no good/bad bacteria is absurd. there is a mountain of science showing that butyrate producers are CRITICAL for disease prevention, including the ibd family of symptoms. and that's just one example of many

 

[westernbuddy]

Your claiming you have fixed crohns with supliments, yet you have no diagnosis, that 100% confirms, it wasn't crohns you fixed could have been one of 1000 things, but with no set diagnosis letter from a gi I can confirm you have helped or treated something else but not crohns.

 

[Maya142]

First of all, you say you have been diagnosed with RA. RA is not the type of arthritis that is commonly associated with IBD. Spondyloarthritis is the type of arthritis that shares genes with IBD and is associated with it. Types of spondyloarthritis include Ankylosing Spondylitis, non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis, psoriatic arthritis and in kids, juvenile spondyloarthritis/enthesitis related arthritis or juvenile psoriatic arthritis. RA is a totally different type of autoimmune disease.

Secondly, I have a husband and two daughters with Ankylosing Spondylitis (and psoriatic arthritis for my husband and younger daughter). They have severe disease and my younger daughter also has Crohn’s. She has done numerous diets and used many supplements and the only thing that actually worked was EEN and that was ONLY for her Crohn’s - her AS remained active.

My husband and daughters are in multiple studies, including at NIH. I have spent many, many years following the research and asking doctors and I have always been told that once damage is done to the joints, it cannot be reversed. So I’d be interested to know how you know you have reversed the damage in your joints. Have you had MRIs or x-rays, before and after you started your diet and “bugs”? Do you have actual objective evidence of damage or are you going based on symptoms? Because diet MAY help with symptoms but there is no evidence as far as I know (and between daughters and my husband, we have seen well over 30 rheumatologists, including at the top hospitals in NYC and in the US and in India) that suggests that diet can actually reverse damage like cartilage wear or bone erosion or fusion. The steroids you were on may have induced remission and so you may no longer be in a lot of pain, but that doesn’t mean there is no inflammation or disease progression, much less damage that has been repaired.

Additionally, just because you have had fever with your GI symptoms doesn’t necessarily mean you have IBD. Fever can be a symptom of multiple types of inflammatory arthritis - my younger daughter has regular fevers when her arthritis is flaring. When it is under control, the fevers and night sweats disappear.

Also, Crohn’s cannot be diagnosed without scopes and biopsies, it’s as simple as that. The symptoms for Crohn’s are so broad that they could apply to any number of gastrointestinal conditions - you can have any combination of various symptoms including weight loss, diarrhea, constipation, nausea, abdominal pain, cramping, vomiting, mouth sores, blood in your stool etc These symptoms can be present with any number of GI disorders, including IBS, Celiac disease, gastroparesis, SIBO, an infection or any kind of food intolerance. Without scopes and imaging (such as a pillcam or MRE), you really can’t know if you have IBD. It’s also possible your GI issues were caused by NSAIDs and went away when you stopped them. NSAIDs can cause many of symptoms listed above and additionally, blood in your stool.

I also want to add that if the issue was simply dysbiosis then wouldn’t an FMT work? My daughter had recurrent C.Diff and has had two FMTs done by colonoscopy and both times, while it fixed her C.Diff, her Crohn’s flared.

Finally, I would like to add that for her Crohn’s, biologics and MTX have been miraculous. We treated aggressively and she is in remission - her last set of scopes showed that both her colon and small bowel looked “perfect” according to the doctor. She has no IBD symptoms at all. And we have meds to thank for that!

 

[asadmom]

First of all, you say you have been diagnosed with RA. RA is not the type of arthritis that is commonly associated with IBD. Spondyloarthritis is the type of arthritis that shares genes with IBD and is associated with it. Types of spondyloarthritis include Ankylosing Spondylitis, non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis, psoriatic arthritis and in kids, juvenile spondyloarthritis/enthesitis related arthritis or juvenile psoriatic arthritis. RA is a totally different type of autoimmune disease.

Secondly, I have a husband and two daughters with Ankylosing Spondylitis (and psoriatic arthritis for my husband and younger daughter). They have severe disease and my younger daughter also has Crohn’s. She has done numerous diets and used many supplements and the only thing that actually worked was EEN and that was ONLY for her Crohn’s - her AS remained active.

My husband and daughters are in multiple studies, including at NIH. I have spent many, many years following the research and asking doctors and I have always been told that once damage is done to the joints, it cannot be reversed. So I’d be interested to know how you know you have reversed the damage in your joints. Have you had MRIs or x-rays, before and after you started your diet and “bugs”? Do you have actual objective evidence of damage or are you going based on symptoms? Because diet MAY help with symptoms but there is no evidence as far as I know (and between daughters and my husband, we have seen well over 30 rheumatologists, including at the top hospitals in NYC and in the US and in India) that suggests that diet can actually reverse damage like cartilage wear or bone erosion or fusion. The steroids you were on may have induced remission and so you may no longer be in a lot of pain, but that doesn’t mean there is no inflammation or disease progression, much less damage that has been repaired.

Additionally, just because you have had fever with your GI symptoms doesn’t necessarily mean you have IBD. Fever can be a symptom of multiple types of inflammatory arthritis - my younger daughter has regular fevers when her arthritis is flaring. When it is under control, the fevers and night sweats disappear.

Also, Crohn’s cannot be diagnosed without scopes and biopsies, it’s as simple as that. The symptoms for Crohn’s are so broad that they could apply to any number of gastrointestinal conditions - you can have any combination of various symptoms including weight loss, diarrhea, constipation, nausea, abdominal pain, cramping, vomiting, mouth sores, blood in your stool etc These symptoms can be present with any number of GI disorders, including IBS, Celiac disease, gastroparesis, SIBO, an infection or any kind of food intolerance. Without scopes and imaging (such as a pillcam or MRE), you really can’t know if you have IBD. It’s also possible your GI issues were caused by NSAIDs and went away when you stopped them. NSAIDs can cause many of symptoms listed above and additionally, blood in your stool.

I also want to add that if the issue was simply dysbiosis then wouldn’t an FMT work? My daughter had recurrent C.Diff and has had two FMTs done by colonoscopy and both times, while it fixed her C.Diff, her Crohn’s flared.

Finally, I would like to add that for her Crohn’s, biologics and MTX have been miraculous. We treated aggressively and she is in remission - her last set of scopes showed that both her colon and small bowel looked “perfect” according to the doctor. She has no IBD symptoms at all. And we have meds to thank for that!

@Maya142 During your journey of studying various diets, have you investigated or encountered the role of histamine and its impact on inflammation?

 

[Maya142]

Yes, I have read about it but honestly it seems a lot more high quality research needs to be done before we can really say whether it’s at all relevant. So far, when I ask my daughter’s rheumatologist about diet, she says based on the study they’re currently running, sugar and processed foods seem to definitely worsen symptoms. However, it’s still early in the study, so we won’t know more for a while.

 

[cheka]

First of all, you say you have been diagnosed with RA. RA is not the type of arthritis that is commonly associated with IBD. Spondyloarthritis is the type of arthritis that shares genes with IBD and is associated with it. Types of spondyloarthritis include Ankylosing Spondylitis, non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis, psoriatic arthritis and in kids, juvenile spondyloarthritis/enthesitis related arthritis or juvenile psoriatic arthritis. RA is a totally different type of autoimmune disease.

RA was closest match, so that's how my rheumy treated it - and RA is what i used to find all of the information to make it disappear. same with crohns, closest match. i guess labels matter if you are taking drugs. they dont matter at all to the natural healer - because the reversal protocols are all similar. there are something like 100 autoimmune diseases -- virtually all of them have gut issues as a/the cause.

Secondly, I have a husband and two daughters with Ankylosing Spondylitis (and psoriatic arthritis for my husband and younger daughter). They have severe disease and my younger daughter also has Crohn’s. She has done numerous diets and used many supplements and the only thing that actually worked was EEN and that was ONLY for her Crohn’s - her AS remained active.

i'm so sorry about your family. keep their spirits up, they can beat it. if i can do it, they can do it. i was a mess.

My husband and daughters are in multiple studies, including at NIH. I have spent many, many years following the research and asking doctors and I have always been told that once damage is done to the joints, it cannot be reversed. So I’d be interested to know how you know you have reversed the damage in your joints. Have you had MRIs or x-rays, before and after you started your diet and “bugs”? Do you have actual objective evidence of damage or are you going based on symptoms? Because diet MAY help with symptoms but there is no evidence as far as I know (and between daughters and my husband, we have seen well over 30 rheumatologists, including at the top hospitals in NYC and in the US and in India) that suggests that diet can actually reverse damage like cartilage wear or bone erosion or fusion. The steroids you were on may have induced remission and so you may no longer be in a lot of pain, but that doesn’t mean there is no inflammation or disease progression, much less damage that has been repaired.

the key player in rebuilding ct is glycine, and a lot of it. there are also some minor players, proline, hydroxyproline, lysine. need 10-15 grams of glycine and a couple of grams of the others. get mine from gelatin, collagen, chicken bone broth. also take glucosamine, msm, magnesium glycinate.

gelatin is the best source of the ones i listed. i use knox brand gelatin from the grocery store. the improvement in both knees, both ankles, an elbow, and a shoulder have been nothing short of miraculous. i've gone from barely able to walk to running/jumping. also couldnt lift my arm over my head and elbow range of motion was much reduced too - the elbow/shoulder had gotten so bad that i had to learn to eat and brush my teeth with my left arm. it wasnt overnight, but slow/steady progress. still getting better today.

edit - forgot to mention vitamin c. none of this works without it. i do a gram of vit c in divided doses.

edit2 - also forgot to mention niacinamide, some recent papers showed ct benefits. i do 250 mg/day of it.

edit3 - the edits never end neglected to mention that a well functioning gut is probably required too. without that there is no confidence in the breakdown and absorption of the nutrients

Additionally, just because you have had fever with your GI symptoms doesn’t necessarily mean you have IBD. Fever can be a symptom of multiple types of inflammatory arthritis - my younger daughter has regular fevers when her arthritis is flaring. When it is under control, the fevers and night sweats disappear.

not really interested in labels. i'll just call all of it symptoms -- ibd symptoms, ra symptoms

Also, Crohn’s cannot be diagnosed without scopes and biopsies, it’s as simple as that. The symptoms for Crohn’s are so broad that they could apply to any number of gastrointestinal conditions - you can have any combination of various symptoms including weight loss, diarrhea, constipation, nausea, abdominal pain, cramping, vomiting, mouth sores, blood in your stool etc These symptoms can be present with any number of GI disorders, including IBS, Celiac disease, gastroparesis, SIBO, an infection or any kind of food intolerance. Without scopes and imaging (such as a pillcam or MRE), you really can’t know if you have IBD. It’s also possible your GI issues were caused by NSAIDs and went away when you stopped them. NSAIDs can cause many of symptoms listed above and additionally, blood in your stool.

nsaid no doubt made my leaky gut and symptoms worse. i was self treating with advil for months after the ra symptoms came on. idiot! nsaid CAUSES leaky gut i found out later. i had it already and made it much worse with nsaid.

I also want to add that if the issue was simply dysbiosis then wouldn’t an FMT work? My daughter had recurrent C.Diff and has had two FMTs done by colonoscopy and both times, while it fixed her C.Diff, her Crohn’s flared.

did you see that new prescription probiotic that wipes out c. diff? vowst is the gold standard now. and it's price is like gold too. fmt is in the embryonic stage -- lots of different bug combos and methods to trial/error before that is a thing, if ever. i'm skeptical that it would work long term. akin to planting full grown tomato plants in bad soil. i have more confidence in working with the body's design - through the mouth. that's the long term solution, and perhaps fmt can be a bridge someday, get the fmt as a jumpstart and go on long term gut health protocols to farm your own good bugs the way it's designed to work

Finally, I would like to add that for her Crohn’s, biologics and MTX have been miraculous. We treated aggressively and she is in remission - her last set of scopes showed that both her colon and small bowel looked “perfect” according to the doctor. She has no IBD symptoms at all. And we have meds to thank for that!

that is awesome!! hope you are keeping her gut health right, dont want to go back.

replies above in bold. updated with edits 4-14-24

 

[LiteBlueSkies]

First of all, you say you have been diagnosed with RA. RA is not the type of arthritis that is commonly associated with IBD. Spondyloarthritis is the type of arthritis that shares genes with IBD and is associated with it. Types of spondyloarthritis include Ankylosing Spondylitis, non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis, psoriatic arthritis and in kids, juvenile spondyloarthritis/enthesitis related arthritis or juvenile psoriatic arthritis. RA is a totally different type of autoimmune disease.

Secondly, I have a husband and two daughters with Ankylosing Spondylitis (and psoriatic arthritis for my husband and younger daughter). They have severe disease and my younger daughter also has Crohn’s. She has done numerous diets and used many supplements and the only thing that actually worked was EEN and that was ONLY for her Crohn’s - her AS remained active.

My husband and daughters are in multiple studies, including at NIH. I have spent many, many years following the research and asking doctors and I have always been told that once damage is done to the joints, it cannot be reversed. So I’d be interested to know how you know you have reversed the damage in your joints. Have you had MRIs or x-rays, before and after you started your diet and “bugs”? Do you have actual objective evidence of damage or are you going based on symptoms? Because diet MAY help with symptoms but there is no evidence as far as I know (and between daughters and my husband, we have seen well over 30 rheumatologists, including at the top hospitals in NYC and in the US and in India) that suggests that diet can actually reverse damage like cartilage wear or bone erosion or fusion. The steroids you were on may have induced remission and so you may no longer be in a lot of pain, but that doesn’t mean there is no inflammation or disease progression, much less damage that has been repaired.

Additionally, just because you have had fever with your GI symptoms doesn’t necessarily mean you have IBD. Fever can be a symptom of multiple types of inflammatory arthritis - my younger daughter has regular fevers when her arthritis is flaring. When it is under control, the fevers and night sweats disappear.

Also, Crohn’s cannot be diagnosed without scopes and biopsies, it’s as simple as that. The symptoms for Crohn’s are so broad that they could apply to any number of gastrointestinal conditions - you can have any combination of various symptoms including weight loss, diarrhea, constipation, nausea, abdominal pain, cramping, vomiting, mouth sores, blood in your stool etc These symptoms can be present with any number of GI disorders, including IBS, Celiac disease, gastroparesis, SIBO, an infection or any kind of food intolerance. Without scopes and imaging (such as a pillcam or MRE), you really can’t know if you have IBD. It’s also possible your GI issues were caused by NSAIDs and went away when you stopped them. NSAIDs can cause many of symptoms listed above and additionally, blood in your stool.

I also want to add that if the issue was simply dysbiosis then wouldn’t an FMT work? My daughter had recurrent C.Diff and has had two FMTs done by colonoscopy and both times, while it fixed her C.Diff, her Crohn’s flared.

Finally, I would like to add that for her Crohn’s, biologics and MTX have been miraculous. We treated aggressively and she is in remission - her last set of scopes showed that both her colon and small bowel looked “perfect” according to the doctor. She has no IBD symptoms at all. And we have meds to thank for that!

I’m considering biologics [gastro suggested vedolizimab , according to him , because I have a stent and am 77 years old - vedo is the best for me ] . My chrons [which was diagnosed with colonoscopy/biopsies] was


described as mild to moderate , But, I’m pretty sure i have had it for years. Depending on what I eat the


diahreaa can be explosive or it can calm down , it “waxes and wanes”. “Biologics” seem to be the Big


Gun …and it kind of scares me. I note that several posters have said they wish they never took them. So


i’m interested in alternate modalities [diet etc]. I am “perplexed” by it all. I note poster KINY seems to prefer EN and you mentioned EEN in your post. I suppose that is some type of Liquid diet ? You think it helped your daughter . You also mentioned MTX . What is that ? So you are quite “Pro” biologics ?

 

[cheka]

daily consumption.....

there's a strong argument that the bacteria in our guts are highly influential in what we eat. this is especially true for everyone on elimination diets. the microbiome community lets you know what they like and dont like to eat. the most obvious example is those with sugar/cheap carb/junk food habits. the bugs DEMAND more sugar/junk, ie give you cravings. it takes a couple of weeks to break the sugar bugs and their demands. giving up my nightly ice cream was an epic battle -- me vs the bacteria/fungi. i won, but i had to have help with cottage cheese

as one's diet changes so does the mix of bacteria/fungi in our guts. the strongest bacteria/fungi (gets fed the most) have the most influence on our cravings and our likes/dislikes/choices. these signals are sent through the gut/brain axis.