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FECAL TRANSPLANTS: A Guide

This article talks about researchers looking at the role of dysbiosis in inflammation of the gut and how that inflammation cascades into other events including diminished effectiveness or even death of paneth cells, a key defense component in the epitheleal lining of the intestine.

They hope their research can uncover how to make fecal transplants more effective for CD and UC treatment.
 
This article talks about researchers looking at the role of dysbiosis in inflammation of the gut and how that inflammation cascades into other events including diminished effectiveness or even death of paneth cells, a key defense component in the epitheleal lining of the intestine.

They hope their research can uncover how to make fecal transplants more effective for CD and UC treatment.
great article. And I'm glad you are contributing to this thread.
I read about lysozymea and it's supposed antibacterial properties and how it is supposedly high in egg whites. There was a period of time after I took antibiotics where I had no symptoms of crohn's but 8 months after I developed it and i believe the antibiotic caused my crohn's. I wondered if anything I was consuming during that time possibly had delayed the development of the disease, so far resveratrol supplement I was taking seemed to reduce my symptoms so at least that was correct, but i was also eating lots of eggs for breakfast so now I'm wondering if that was another factor contributing due to lysozyme content and its broad ability to breakdown bacterial cell walls. Perhaps it makes sense that the egg would need to be protected by this outer wall from pathogens, and lysozyme is one major way the egg does this. i'll have to try adding eggs back into my diet and see how it affects my symptoms, maybe it's restoring lysozyme levels or something.

here is a study that found egg yolks to reduce inflammatory response, so the idea that eggs may have been somehow contributing to the supression of my symptoms, may have some merit, looks like it might be the yolks and the whites. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4113762/

another shows eggs reduced CRP but not tnf-a http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2265719/

egg white derived lysozyme effect on e coli-
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf4029199
 
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This article talks about researchers looking at the role of dysbiosis in inflammation of the gut and how that inflammation cascades into other events including diminished effectiveness or even death of paneth cells, a key defense component in the epitheleal lining of the intestine.

They hope their research can uncover how to make fecal transplants more effective for CD and UC treatment.
here is the full study. http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2015/04/16/gutjnl-2015-309333.full.pdf+html

this is a great study, id prefer to address these issues in the fecal transplant thread, but i was waiting for a mouse model of IBD based on changes in the microbiome, and this is kind of a step in that direction. This is the first time I've heard of them transferring "IBD" into another mouse, they have done this with obesity in mice already.

what was really cool is that they could influence where the inflammation occured by giving the mice antibiotics. This supports my previous belief that one of the main differences in uc and crohn's is the type of pathogens that exist. But more importantly, it is strong evidence for the sole cause of IBD to originate from the microbiome and not genetics. This supports the idea of fixing the microbiome issues with a fecal transplant, which could then correct the disease itself.
 
Makes me really sad to think about our dysbiosis. Wish we had a way to restore our gut flora. Maybe after complete remission it would restore itself with the help of a good diet ha?
Now I can't even tolerate lactic acid. Gives me migraines every time. This is why I can't even eat any fermented food.

The microbiome-gut-brain axis: from bowel to behavior
https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CF8QFjAJ&url=http://www.researchgate.net/profile/John_Cryan/publication/49819526_The_microbiome-gut-brain_axis_from_bowel_to_behavior/links/09e4150cb743c5053d000000.pdf&ei=nYBEVbzFK4bZarKIgYAI&usg=AFQjCNHvjAWbxh2n-jFpXzj9dI3lBK69dQ&bvm=bv.92291466,d.d2s&cad=rja
 
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Thanks for pointing it out! Was latest news at an ibd news site, I'll check more thoroughly next time.
Reposts of news are always good incase people have missed older posts so don't worry too much if something's already been posted, if it raises more awareness it's a win.
 
That separate studies draw different conclusions points to the nascent nature of FMT and suggests that so much more research is needed in this area. Or maybe that's just the nature of Crohn's.

The above Suskind study concludes that the greater the difference in bacterial makeup of host and donor, the better the results. Conversely, I've seen other studies say the more similar the bacterial makeup the better the results. I don't have a reference to the similar makeup study to link to but will do so when I run across it again.
 
Replenishing our defensive microbes
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4102301/


The modern infatuation with cleanliness stems in part from the misguided midcentury thinking that most microbes cause disease, and that the absence of microbes is therefore a key component of health. Over the last twenty years, the use of culture-independent methods that allow us to identify the members of human-associated microbial communities that are difficult to grow in the laboratory, together with epidemiological studies and studies of germ-free mice, has started to change this thinking. There is now compelling evidence that the opposite is true: rather than reducing microbial exposure, we should balance our symbiotic microbial communities to protect us from pathogens and disease states.
 
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I wish I could get a transplant from those Malawi and Venezualian rural people they are talking about :ysmile:
yea that would be awesome, assuming these bacteria are good, which they probably are. it inspire's me to find wild growing fruits and veggies to hopefully gain bacteria I've never been exposed to or even lost. May even try to ferment wild fruits like make some natural wine or something.

What was interesting is I was trying to find more information about these spirochaete Treponema berlinense, and found that a similar sounding organism is suspected to be the cause of alzheimers. I'm not sure these organism's have much similarity but it's interesting. something to learn more about. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25932012

This almost reminds of the latest research on h.pylori, once believed to be the cause of stomach ulcers, but is now suspected to actually be a natural inhabitant as people with h pylori have a some protection from some diseases or something like that. Or of c. difficile infection, where a bacteria which is usually in the gi tract begins to dominate and now causes disease state because of the ABSENCE of other microbes, but is otherwise just a harmless bacteria. These are some complicated relationships were talking about here, it's all about ecosystems and how they work together as one.
 

Lady Organic

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thx, towards the end of the video, they encourage eating fermeted veggies. Ive kept good discipline of that and I now eat a full big jar per week of raw saukrate. I use the juice to replace lemon or vinegar in salads. Its surprisingly good!
 
Just a little excerpt from a paper studying fecal transplants in mice. Apparently pretreating the mice to lower the bacterial load(pathogens) before FMT didnt improve the ability for the FMT to restore missing bacteria, and seemed to reduce the success of FMT. Many people have asked this question pertaining to humans and it was always something i wondered myself.



Therefore, lowering the recipient bacterial load by antibiotic intake prior to transplantation did not increase establishment of the donor phylotypes, although some dominant lineages still transferred successfully. However, since antibiotic pretreatment counterintuitively interferes with the establishment of an exogenous community, such plasticity is likely conditioned more by the altered microbiome gut homeostasis caused by antibiotics than by the primary bacterial loss.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2945190/

At the moment I think the most important variables for FMT are the quantity and composition of the donors microbiota which is diet dependant, and the diet of the patient after fmt. If you get those correct, all other variables won't matter, the transplant will likely be successfull 100% of the time.
 
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Ideal Donors for Fecal Transplant Rare
May 19, 2015
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/844905

Because of limited resources, the researchers invited only 77 of the 251 potential donors to the onsite visit for further evaluation. After clinical assessment, 50 people were excluded, mainly because of sexual history (10%), travel history (10%), or psychiatric concerns (18%).

The remaining 27 potential donors underwent blood and stool assessment, which eliminated 15 people because of stool, not blood, screening considerations.

Six people were excluded because of rotavirus, which was asymptomatic. None of these donors had healthcare exposure or contact with young children or daycare, Burns pointed out.

"We ultimately enrolled 12 donors, which was an 8.5% donor enrolment rate," she said.
 
Well, let's hope this does make many a research company get a wriggle on with this FMT trialling. Here's hoping for better health very soon.
Thanks, Bill. Keep that info coming.
 
It has been 6 months since my 10-day FMT treatment ended and I am in good health, despite having significantly reduced my medication. I was at a crossroads with my UC: to impede my immune system with expensive drugs that have serious side-effects, or battle what was causing my immune system to react. I obviously chose the latter. So far, so good!

In this post I will outline the protocol I followed. This is not to say that anyone should do exactly this, or even anything like it, only that this is what I did. There's nothing to say that some of this, much of this, all of this was unnecessary and I'd be feeling this well if I had done less or none of this. The purpose is to say what seems to have worked for me (so far), and so allowing correlations to be drawn from others who report what they did, and what their results were. The formal studies are slow and often have poor design, so anecdotes may provide hints in the mean time.

Age 56, diagnosed with UC 14 years ago and have been on various 5-ASA's since. No serious flare-ups until 18 months ago, when the 5-ASA became ineffective. For 6 months I tried steroid formulations. Budesonide (Uceris) reduced symptoms but flare returned when stopped. Same with hydrocort enema. Neither were long-term solutions, and during the 6 months of using those (on and off), I had flare symptoms of blood, mucus, diarrhea, urgency, many evacuations per day. That's the worst I've felt in my life with the roller coaster of symptoms and steroid side-effects. The 6 months following the use of the steroids I used the maximum dose of 5-ASA of 4.8g mesalamine (generic Lialda) in addition to about 1.3mg mesalamine in 20ml solution rectally. This kept symptoms under better control, but still had occasional symptoms. So going into the FMT, I was fairly healthy, but on the largest dose of 5-ASA and being careful about my diet. The fecal calprotectin test showed low inflammation at this time.

Throughout the one month run-up to the FMT procedure, I kept my diet about the same as usual, but on the conservative side by eating fewer different things. I tried to keeping things that worked for me and tried to reduce or eliminate things that did not work for me. This is difficult for me, since rarely does a food cause an immediate reaction, but rather multiple instances over weeks of some foods might cause problems.

28 days before the FMT was scheduled, I began taking osmotic laxative pills with a target of bristol#5. This was continued up to the start of the FMT treatment.

11 days before the FMT treatment, I began a antibiotic regimen (under the supervision of a doctor who was on-board with the FMT idea) that lasted 9 days: Vancomycin Hcl 1g/day, Metronidazole 750mg/day, Doxycycline Mono 100mg/day, Amoxicillin 1.5g/day.

7 days before the FMT treatment, I had a colon irrigation (colonic lavage) http://www.crohnsforum.com/showpost.php?p=845588&postcount=322, and 4 days before the FMT treatment I did colonoscopy cleanse (http://www.crohnsforum.com/showpost.php?p=844368&postcount=312). Between this cleanse and the FMT procedure, I ate normally, but on the light side (no large heavy meals).

Immediately before the first FMT infusion, I had another colonic lavage, then for 10 days I had human fecal probiotic from multiple healthy and screened donors introduced rectally (60ml centrifuged cells only, prepared in an anaerobic environment). During this time I stopped, then eased back into a low dose of the osmotic laxative in order to maintain a bristol#4/5. During the span of time of the FMT treatments, I ate slightly "worse" than my normal diet, since I didn't have a kitchen at the time. By worse, I mean more refined carbohydrates and fewer veggies. Also during the span of the FMT and every day up to today, I have been consuming a pre-biotic daily http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/Prebiotics. During the span of the FMT, I maintained my dose of 5-ASA (4.8g mesalamine in addition to about 1.3mg mesalamine in 20ml solution rectally). During, and immediately after the FMT, fecal calprotectin and CRP tests showed very low inflammation.

Five weeks post FMT, I cut the dose of mesalamine in half, down to 2.4g. Nine weeks post FMT, I eliminated the rectal mesalamine. These changes did not seem to change symptoms at all, which, generally were one evacuation per day at bristol#4. None of the former notable UC symptoms were present.

My diet, post FMT has changed, somewhat. 1) I have reduced intake of foods containing gluten. Going completely gluten-free was advised, but I have not had the drive to do so. I have had the Cyrex 3 panel, which indicated I was certainly sensitive to 3 of the 24 things tested, so when convenient, I might go completely gluten-free for a couple of months, note how I feel, and then slam some gluten and see how I feel. 2) As I said before, I have added daily a pre-biotic (GOS). 3) I have started eating more organic raw and live foods. Examples of a live foods are sauerkraut and kombucha, both of which I make myself (but you can get both at health food stores). 4) Before and after FMT, most of my carbohydrate calories came from veggies, so very few refined carbs (except in my weekly trip to the craft beer establishment). So a large part of my diet has been and is fat and protein. The change is that now I'm eating more raw veggies than before (less Atkins-like and more along the lines of paleo).
 
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7vNH, glad to hear your health has improved after FMT procedure. It was unfortunate that your diet during the 10 day FMT process wasn't that great, as that was the most crucial time to get fiber to feed the new bacteria. High fat and meat diet is not good for the gut bacteria by the way, those foods don't have much fiber unless your source of fat is nuts which do have fiber. Keep us updated. Sources of resistant starch might be very important for a patient and donor that is doing an FMT, think pinto beans and potatoes, but many foods have varying degrees of resistant starch. Chitin may also be a very good fiber, it is found in mushrooms. The clostridial commensal bacteria are the main bacteria we seek to restore to treat IBD, although other types may be missing as well.

Dietary modulation of clostridial cluster XIVa gut bacteria (Roseburia spp.) by
chitin–glucan fiber improves host metabolic alterations induced by high-fat diet
in mice.

http://www.uclouvain.be/cps/ucl/doc/ir-ldri/images/Neyrinck_JNB_2012.pdf
 
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I never got numbers on the fecal calprotectin. I had one test in mid December, and another in mid January and my doctor said it was "low" both times. I guess that by December my earlier flare had calmed down. He said neither test indicated any level inflammation. As for another round of FMT, I hope not, because that would mean I've reverted to my former state of ill health.

The diet during the FMT was a bit unfortunate, but I was able to eat avocados, fresh fruit and nuts throughout as snacks. It was difficult to prepare a full meal, but I was able to get some of these more healthy things at the grocery store instead of or in concert with eating out. And even eating out, by the end, I was able to find a few places with a healthy menu, even with raw veggies and 'live' (fermented) veggies.
 
P.s typing on a phone, excuse the errors
Wildbill, just wanted to let you know that 2 weeks agoI was emembarking on exactly what you were doing. While the results made a no show... I am refining my methods and will be doing a fmt oral this weekend again. .. same donor.

The first time I did the oral one... my plan was to break fecal matter apart and swallow it in several pieces with soft drink. Did exactly tht for 1 time. However note that I didnt take into account the anaerobic factpr when I was preparing the materials... left more than 20 mins from defecation from donor (teen, lived with me during transplant,) to swallowing material.so that might have killed most anaerobes ( but I still dont necessarily buy into that since there are many sections in stool where anaerobes may reside and escape an pxygenated enviroent) ...very similar to the theory of stomach acid will kill the fecal bacterawhiich is totally not true. Our stomach is alot less acidic than people think ( proven) but thats for another day.
Moreover my donor despite being healthy was not on a high fiber diet. I will be forcing my donor to consume more fruits since vegetables are a no no to him.and will be overlooking his diet this 2nd donation time around.

Will continue this in the next post
 
I also have concerns that since I consumed the material in broken up pieces...that lack of surface area did not necessarily spead enough bacteria around the intestinal walls where they may take hold.

So this time ,
The things I will be doing are...( 5day, 1 donation a day oral transplant)

1) donor will consume at least 2 whole pieces of fruit on day before 1st donation to ensure 1st donation has more helpful bacteria to take hold ..

2) donors diet controlled when living with me.. includes meat, rice , spice....etc but no vegetables...thus to compensate for the lack of fiber... I have taken the liberty to prepare fruits to be yaken with every meal including times when consuming snacks. ( bananas looks to be the staple fruit)

3) when donation is excreted from anus... I will put in ziplock bag and try to release air before I lock to prevernt an oxygented environment.
Not sure of I will be mixing stool with saline or just water...

4) whichever I mix stool with in ziplock bag, I willmanually mix the stool from the outside of the bag ...so not really blending but rather an imperfect mixing of stools that will still contain unbroken pices when I consume orally.

5) I kmkw all this sounds disgusting and what not .. but desperation changes you. Theres alot more I have done with fmt...
Just to let everyone reading know.... the article about weight gain from obese fmts.... I ts true...cause I am living proof of that... put on 20 pounds in 6 months despite having continuous diarhea after fmt...did not cure my crohns infection though

So wildbill, I hope you can tell if this is a good enough plan or of theres any other improvement or mistakes I have made.

I am just as desperate as you are to see if this works...
 
Rebel1992, I cant really encourage you to do FMT but you are hopefully an adult and can make your own decisions. If you decide to do it again, make sure your donor is healthy via blood tests. There are online blood test places where you can order them yourself (HIV, HEPATITIS, and Other STD's) I don't want you take any extreme risks to your health. Also I think your donor should be on a high fiber diet for at least one week and obtain fiber from many foods sources not just fruit, for example beans, whole grains, nuts, veggies etc. Make them take inulin and potato starch everyday as a fiber supplement. Refer to the first post of this thread under how to select a donor. You should also take more time to learn and think about this before doing anything at all.
 
Wildbill, testing donor is not available to me since I dont live in the us... and only c diff is alllowed here for fmt. Alsp onlne test kits are a hasske I am willing to risk...plus my donor is healthy from all the questions I have imposed on him.
Moreover regarding the fiber issue, I dont really wanna step on my donors toes. He is totally against vegetables...so my only other fiber source are fruits.
He is also someone who is a huge spicy food person and I have requested him to leave spicy food during the week that he is staying with me just imcase it may affect stool quality.

Overall I think this weekends fmt, is an endevour I am hoping to get rwsults from.
Onky other question I have is.... for saline solution how do you make them or do you get storebought ones.
Plus is there a reason why you use saline instead of distilled water for oral transplants...
I dont see osmolality affecting fmt ( care to explain a little)
 
Wildbill, testing donor is not available to me since I dont live in the us... and only c diff is alllowed here for fmt. Alsp onlne test kits are a hasske I am willing to risk...plus my donor is healthy from all the questions I have imposed on him.
Moreover regarding the fiber issue, I dont really wanna step on my donors toes. He is totally against vegetables...so my only other fiber source are fruits.
He is also someone who is a huge spicy food person and I have requested him to leave spicy food during the week that he is staying with me just imcase it may affect stool quality.

Overall I think this weekends fmt, is an endevour I am hoping to get rwsults from.
Onky other question I have is.... for saline solution how do you make them or do you get storebought ones.
Plus is there a reason why you use saline instead of distilled water for oral transplants...
I dont see osmolality affecting fmt ( care to explain a little)
Just make saline solution, you mix a certain amount of salt into water, preferably distilled i have instruction in the first post of this thread. If you are drinking it the salt will help mask the taste going down, also the saline should be chilled in the refrigerator or on ice the coldness will also mask the taste. keep your nose plugged during and for 20 minutes after so you do not smell it. DO all this and your stomach should hold it all down. I've done it 2x, so speaking from experiance of course.
 
Just make saline solution, you mix a certain amount of salt into water, preferably distilled i have instruction in the first post of this thread. If you are drinking it the salt will help mask the taste going down, also the saline should be chilled in the refrigerator or on ice the coldness will also mask the taste. keep your nose plugged during and for 20 minutes after so you do not smell it. DO all this and your stomach should hold it all down. I've done it 2x, so speaking from experiance of course.
There are a few concerns regarding keeping it chilled ...wont coldness affect the bacteria s activity... anyway...to mask the taste ( despite having very little gag reflex) I have decided to get some sort of liquid flavouring. Possibly vanilla or smth.

Question is ....is there a reason why u used saline instead of water.? Was it purely because of taste or does issies like osmolality of the solution affect the availabity of bacteria?
Thx for yr help.
Really need to clear any doubts, since if it doesnt work this time around for me.... the only other solution I can think of...is to get my Crohn's under very good control and then reattempting it 2 months later.
 
Rebel, great info, thanks. It's always very interesting to read about how FMT is going as I think it might be the way forwards. It's just getting the technique right. I'm looking forward to hearing your results.

Would your donor drink something like Fibrogel for fibre beforehand. Don't really know if it would help, but many people do take it to up their fibre intake. It could be sprinkled into fruit juice. I don't know if it's called that in Singapore, but I'm sure there is some kind of equivalent.

Good luck.
 
Rebel, great info, thanks. It's always very interesting to read about how FMT is going as I think it might be the way forwards. It's just getting the technique right. I'm looking forward to hearing your results.

Would your donor drink something like Fibrogel for fibre beforehand. Don't really know if it would help, but many people do take it to up their fibre intake. It could be sprinkled into fruit juice. I don't know if it's called that in Singapore, but I'm sure there is some kind of equivalent.

Good luck.
Hey thx for the suggestions, really mean it.. since sm1 might have a better method to proceed with fmt and make it work.

Anyway regarding fibrogel, its basically psylium husk, amd I wouldnt necessrily consider PH a prebiotic...more as for sm1 with constipation.

Regardless, I will probably getting my donor to eat fruits which I ll prepare 3 times after meals so that it fulfills the fiber requirements.

I think like what wildbill posted...the fiber is important because of the antimicrobial antiinflammatory substrates it produces when fermenting fiber.

The best idea I can think of regarding giving the bacteria from donor stool to feed on is...mixing say smthing like inulin powder in the oral stool solution that I ll be consuming. That way it hopefully gives the bactria a better chance to produce substates that can help them adhere to the intestinal lining.
 
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Rebel 1992, The saline would be used for osmolarity issues, if the PH is not right this can stress the bacteria out and some may die. Most of my advice are based in science, so I'm not trying not to do too much guessing on this, by understanding as much science as you can this will increase your success, so it's not a, my method/opinion or your method/opinion type of issue, all of our opinions can be as firmly backed by science as possible, although you may also think of some new solutions by yourself which is great, and you also may have actual experience above and beyond the current science can offer. Its possible plain old water would be fine, but you should use the science we have to increase your chances of success and do not stray too much further from that, this will help you construct the best plan for success, because how many times do you really want to do this? or how long do you think your donor will cooperate? good luck.
 
This is an interesting thread, if for nothing else, reminds me of the two girls and a cup who may have been onto something.
 
Rebel 1992, The saline would be used for osmolarity issues, if the PH is not right this can stress the bacteria out and some may die. Most of my advice are based in science, so I'm not trying not to do too much guessing on this, by understanding as much science as you can this will increase your success, so it's not a, my method/opinion or your method/opinion type of issue, all of our opinions can be as firmly backed by science as possible, although you may also think of some new solutions by yourself which is great, and you also may have actual experience above and beyond the current science can offer. Its possible plain old water would be fine, but you should use the science we have to increase your chances of success and do not stray too much further from that, this will help you construct the best plan for success, because how many times do you really want to do this? or how long do you think your donor will cooperate? good luck.
I guess I will probably be doing with saline solhtion instead of water then. And I completely agree with regarding putting as science on yr side to keep odds up. Fingers crossed.
 

UnXmas

Banned
wildbill - I just skimmed through this thread for the first time, and read many of the posts about your attempts at faecal transplants, and I have a couple of questions. (I'm sorry if I've missed the answers somewhere in the thread already.)

What is your relationship with your doners?

How can you be certain the changes you've noted were due to the transplant? You say your diet is consistent, but more things can affect symptoms than diet, including internal workings in our bodies which we are not aware of. In particular, how are you able to know your mood changes are results of the transplants? They could be placebo effects. No one's mood is consistent all the time, so it is difficult to determine they are the result of one factor, unless the mood changes are severe and have happened every time you do a transplant, which you haven't done enough times yet to know the mood change is always the result.

Your digestive symptoms don't sound all that bad at the moment, and I wondered why you are so driven to achieve healing to go to the lengths you're going to with this? Also, what are you trying to achieve in terms of symptoms? If someone had terrible pain and bloody diarrhoea ten times a day, then it would be a huge change to become pain free with the odd loose bowel movement. But your bowel movements currently sound pretty normal. Is pain a symptom you experience? What would you view as a clear success regarding your digestive symptoms?

Do you have regular medical tests, whether blood tests, scopes or anything else? What sort of disease status is indicated by your recent results, and, again, what would you view as a clear improvement?

Thanks in advance for answering. I'm going to read some more of this thread now (again, sorry if I missed answers to my questions). It's not something I'd do myself, at least I would not try and do it myself; I have no objections to it if it were being carried out by doctors and was established as a safe and hopefully effective treatment, but it's interesting to read about.

Oh, and one very different question: what would happen if you did a faecal transplant with animals other than humans for doners?! I'm sure there are obvious reasons why this wouldn't work, but it seems far less disgusting to consume animal faeces.
 
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wildbill - I just skimmed through this thread for the first time, and read many of the posts about your attempts at faecal transplants, and I have a couple of questions. (I'm sorry if I've missed the answers somewhere in the thread already.)

What is your relationship with your doners?
I used 3 different donors for 4 attempts. Sister, cousin, and cousins son.

How can you be certain the changes you've noted were due to the transplant? You say your diet is consistent, but more things can affect symptoms than diet, including internal workings in our bodies which we are not aware of. In particular, how are you able to know your mood changes are results of the transplants? They could be placebo effects. No one's mood is consistent all the time, so it is difficult to determine they are the result of one factor, unless the mood changes are severe and have happened every time you do a transplant, which you haven't done enough times yet to know the mood change is always the result.
How am I certain my return to normal weight was a result of the fecal transplant? Because I've never weighed more then 134 lbs in the last six years of having crohn's and directly 8 weeks after the the FMT I gained around 9 pounds, 4 months later I gained about 15 pounds total. This was all without increasing my caloric intake, in all likelihood it was the fecal transplant. My bowel movements became healthier looking, and my mood improved all during this time. These changes are way beyond being a result of my own wishful thinking they are objective(other people can see it too/not in my head) and measureable/quantifiable. My mood in general has improved as well my anxiety is lower now, that isnt easily measureble by anyone but me though so you'll have to trust me on that one, but gi inflammation and the microbiome itself is implicated in anxiety, plenty of science to support my claims here.


Your digestive symptoms don't sound all that bad at the moment, and I wondered why you are so driven to achieve healing to go to the lengths you're going to with this?
my entire health declined not just my digestive symptoms, my mental health was affected alot too. I have chronic fatigue attention deficits and memory issues, THAT is why I'm driven. I have considered in teh past year the i may have also had c difficile on top of crohn's and that why i may have become so much worse after my colonoscopy but the doctor just ignored me when i said it got worse after the colonoscopy, during that time i had no idea what crohn's or c. difficle even was to question the doctors and have them test me for c. difficile. It is frequently contracted in medical facilities. Even though I control my diarhea with diet and some meds, I still want to restore my ability to digest food normally.

What would you view as a clear success regarding your digestive symptoms?
the ability to eat foods with sugar in it like fruits and not have any increased symptoms of diarhea. and I would also like my energy levels to go back to normal.my first symptom after taking the antibiotic augmentin/amoxicillin-clavulanic acid was horrible fatigue and anxiety. It took a few more months for digestive issues to develop.

Do you have regular medical tests, whether blood tests, scopes or anything else? What sort of disease status is indicated by your recent results, and, again, what would you view as a clear improvement?
before i did the FMT my doctor indicated all bloods tests came back normal that included inflammation indicators c-reactive protein and sedimentation rate. I refuse colonoscopy because of how it made my symptoms so much worse.


Oh, and one very different question: what would happen if you did a faecal transplant with animals other than humans for doners?! I'm sure there are obvious reasons why this wouldn't work, but it seems far less disgusting to consume animal faeces.
It's unknown. Alot of the bacteria are similar though. Definitely not recommended.
 
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UnXmas

Banned
Thank you for answering, can I ask a few more things? The main changes you are aiming for are regarding your mental health, fatigue and memory, but is there much evidence faecal transplants help with these things? I've only really heard it talked about in relation to bowel conditions. I think I saw earlier in this thread you gave links to the odd account of faecal transplants helping other things, but there are treatments for your mental health problems which have far more chance of working.

Also, since you are going about this very scientifically, would it be beneficial to have more medical tests so you have information about what is happening to you? Not necessarily a scope if they make you worse, but imaging studies, and frequent blood and stool tests, for example? Also, have you considered any scientific ways of measuring your mental improvements? E.g. neuropsychological tests?

Have you had any ideas about how to reduce the hygiene risks?!

Thanks again for your answers.
 
Thank you for answering, can I ask a few more things? The main changes you are aiming for are regarding your mental health, fatigue and memory, but is there much evidence faecal transplants help with these things? I've only really heard it talked about in relation to bowel conditions. I think I saw earlier in this thread you gave links to the odd account of faecal transplants helping other things, but there are treatments for your mental health problems which have far more chance of working.

Also, since you are going about this very scientifically, would it be beneficial to have more medical tests so you have information about what is happening to you? Not necessarily a scope if they make you worse, but imaging studies, and frequent blood and stool tests, for example? Also, have you considered any scientific ways of measuring your mental improvements? E.g. neuropsychological tests?

Have you had any ideas about how to reduce the hygiene risks?!

Thanks again for your answers.
I have thought about it and after FMT I may have my microbiome tested to see how i stack up against healthy microbiome.
http://ubiome.com/

The energy issues are pretty clearly from the damage of antibiotics, i was pretty physically active and after the antibiotics i just couldn't keep up, and things have been a struggle ever since. Some studies show fatigue is common in IBD, dont really how common though like 30% or something like that, i think its common with many chronic diseases. http://www.crohnsandcolitis.org.uk/Resources/CrohnsAndColitisUK/Documents/Publications/Info-Sheets/fatigue-and-ibd.pdf

Quote:
Many people find that their fatigue
improves as their IBD improves.
However, for some, there can be a time
lag of weeks or even months before they
regain their normal energy levels.
Sometimes the fatigue does not go away
even when the IBD seems to be
completely under control. Fatigue
continues to affect over 2 out of 5 people
whose IBD is in remission.
 

UnXmas

Banned
So you're not having any tests done? Have there been cases where faecal transplants have helped mental symptoms?
 
Hey wildbill, I will doing my first oral fmt today... just looking up on the net... I was intending to add chia seeds after downing the oral fmt.
Do you think chia seeds may help? Since it forms almost like a mucilage sort of action on the intestines...or should I just stick to plain oold oats for the fiber?
 
Hey wildbill, I will doing my first oral fmt today... just looking up on the net... I was intending to add chia seeds after downing the oral fmt.
Do you think chia seeds may help? Since it forms almost like a mucilage sort of action on the intestines...or should I just stick to plain oold oats for the fiber?
Note; I cant tolerate
 
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So you're not having any tests done? Have there been cases where faecal transplants have helped mental symptoms?
There is plenty of evidence that the microbiome is directly related to autism spectrum disorders, so fmt most certainly can have an effect on mental symptoms.
 
Have there been cases where faecal transplants have helped mental symptoms?
It's all pretty "new frontier, may, might, gimme some funding and i'll do a study" or to quote one article
"As the authors discuss, the impact of the microbiota on normal brain development remains unknown, but this has become an important emerging area of investigation."

"proof" of anything is a while away

It seems widely (albeit recently) accepted that microbiome directly affects mental health so it is not unreasonable to assume that FMT may influence mental symptoms

"Thus, the emerging concept of a microbiota–gut–brain axis suggests that modulation of the gut microbiota may be a tractable strategy for developing novel therapeutics for complex CNS disorders."
http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v13/n10/abs/nrn3346.html

"This review provides evidence for the gut microbiota as a key factor mediating the link between diet and depressive illness.
Summary Although in its early stages, the emerging field of research focused on the human microbiome suggests an important role for the gut microbiota in influencing brain development, behaviour and mood in humans. The recognition that the gut microbiota interacts bidirectionally with other environmental risk factors, such as diet and stress, suggests promise in the development of interventions targeting the gut microbiota for the prevention and treatment of common mental health disorders."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/836260

"The concept that gut microbiota may modulate brain chemistry and behaviour is gaining traction and efforts are now turning to investigate the role of microbiota in animal models of psychopathology."
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/nmo.12198/full

we live in interesting times
 
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Given the demonstrated and potential value of microbiome research in such diverse applications, the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) is issuing a Request for Information to provide a broad community of stakeholders, including experts and members of the public an opportunity to comment on the current status and needs of microbiome research. The Request for Information can be found in the Federal Register here. OSTP encourages experts and interested individuals from across sectors and scientific disciplines to share your feedback on this critically important topic.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/05/21/whats-next-microbiome

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/05/20/2015-12191/microbiome-research
 
UPDATE day 1

Collected donor feces mid afternoon.
Put in ziplock freezer bag immediately.
Stool was formed light brown and huge.
Once collected, opened ziplock bag for second time to put 100ml of mineral water (bottled, did not have saline on hand)
Mixed stool and saline...manual manipulation from the outside of ziplock bag
Trasferred fecal slurry intocup.
Sm3eled like diarhea even though donor stool was nowhere near being diarhea.
Mentally prepared myself and swallow that **** down.
Sweared if I had a gag reflex, I would have puked all over myself.

After effects, suprisingly I felt hardly and discomfort when it was travelling through my imtestines. For eg, if I ate a banana, theres no doubt within 30 mins, I would have gurgling in my stomach.and have sharp pains for the next half hour. Dirhea would ensue the next day.

So fast forwrd 16 hours later. I needed to evacuate my bowels, diarhea feeling, and did have diarhea for the most part. But didnt feel like the food poisoning type. Just diarhea that gave me amild pain.

Improvements I intend to make in the next infusion tmrww...
1) saline instead of water ( hoping this will not induce diarhea though)
2) stomach acid suppressant ( I might be tempted to take this on 3rd fmt just to cancel out the stomach acid kills doubt)
3) must find an easier way to put the oral fecal liquid dkwn throat tha drinking it
 
I love this thread, and your so brave Rebel. It will be interesting to know if things improve, but that could take months from what other people say.
Good luck. perhaps you could find a naso-gastric tube to put down there to get the **** down you.
 

UnXmas

Banned
Rebel - are you aware of any risks involved in this? As I said earlier in this thread, in theory I have no objections to faecal transplants, if they're carried out by professionals and in a way that minimises the hygiene risks to an acceptable level. But doing them DIY in the way that you are does not sound a good idea to me, and the chance of it working seems to me to be far too small to justify it.

That said, I don't know much about the risks involved, and I would be interested in hearing what you've learned about this aspect of faecal transplants and why you (or anyone else) feels ok about it.

Thanks for your report, I hope you'll update soon. Take care.
 
I love this thread, and your so brave Rebel. It will be interesting to know if things improve, but that could take months from what other people say.
Good luck. perhaps you could find a naso-gastric tube to put down there to get the **** down you.
Any form of nasogatric tube or tubes I dont think is feasible after todays (day 2) infusion which I will update a post later on. And also I doubt it would take months, most effective fecal transplants have an almost immediate resolution of bowel problems. And its almost telepathic, in the way when IBDers know instantly when a food will cause them D once its in their stomach.... hope you get what I mean. Plus I made a typo in update 1, which I will edit later on...
I meant in that post that after the 1st infusion, I did not feel in any form of pain like if I were to eat a banana.... so means no pain.
 

UnXmas

Banned
I think you're right that it's unlikely to catch on.... unless you have fantastic results. Good luck! I hope for you it will be worth it.
 
I may have posted this before, but what does anyone make of this.
The controls were given their own poo for the transplant, and remission took place is some. A wild guess might be oral tolerance induction, or placebo effect.
Old Mike
Findings From a Randomized Controlled Trial of Fecal Transplantation for Patients With Ulcerative Colitis.

Rossen NG1, Fuentes S2, van der Spek MJ1, Tijssen J3, Hartman JH2, Duflou A1, Löwenberg M1, van den Brink GR1, Mathus-Vliegen EM1, de Vos WM4, Zoetendal EG2, D'Haens GR1, Ponsioen CY1.



Author information






Abstract

BACKGROUND & AIMS:

Several case series have reported the effects of fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT) for ulcerative colitis (UC). We assessed the efficacy and safety of FMT for patients with UC in a double-blind randomized trial.

METHODS:

Patients with mild to moderately active UC (n = 50) were assigned to groups that underwent FMT with feces from healthy donors or were given autologous fecal microbiota (control); each transplant was administered via nasoduodenal tube at the start of the study and 3 weeks later. The study was performed at the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam from June 2011 through May 2014. The composite primary end point was clinical remission (simple clinical colitis activity index scores ≤2) combined with ≥1-point decrease in the Mayo endoscopic score at week 12. Secondary end points were safety and microbiota composition by phylogenetic microarray in fecal samples.

RESULTS:

Thirty-seven patients completed the primary end point assessment. In the intention-to-treat analysis, 7 of 23 patients who received fecal transplants from healthy donors (30.4%) and 5 of 25 controls (20.0%) achieved the primary end point (P = .51). In the per-protocol analysis, 7 of 17 patients who received fecal transplants from healthy donors (41.2%) and 5 of 20 controls (25.0%) achieved the primary end point (P = .29). Serious adverse events occurred in 4 patients (2 in the FMT group), but these were not considered to be related to the FMT. At 12 weeks, the microbiota of responders in the FMT group was similar to that of their healthy donors; remission was associated with proportions of Clostridium clusters IV and XIVa.

CONCLUSIONS:

In this phase 2 trial, there was no statistically significant difference in clinical and endoscopic remission between patients with UC who received fecal transplants from healthy donors and those who received their own fecal microbiota, which may be due to limited numbers. However, the microbiota of responders had distinct features from that of nonresponders, warranting further study. ClinicalTrials.gov Number: NCT01650038.
 
I may have posted this before, but what does anyone make of this.
The controls were given their own poo for the transplant, and remission took place is some. A wild guess might be oral tolerance induction, or placebo effect.
Old Mike
Findings From a Randomized Controlled Trial of Fecal Transplantation for Patients With Ulcerative Colitis.

Rossen NG1, Fuentes S2, van der Spek MJ1, Tijssen J3, Hartman JH2, Duflou A1, Löwenberg M1, van den Brink GR1, Mathus-Vliegen EM1, de Vos WM4, Zoetendal EG2, D'Haens GR1, Ponsioen CY1.



Author information






Abstract

BACKGROUND & AIMS:

Several case series have reported the effects of fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT) for ulcerative colitis (UC). We assessed the efficacy and safety of FMT for patients with UC in a double-blind randomized trial.

METHODS:

Patients with mild to moderately active UC (n = 50) were assigned to groups that underwent FMT with feces from healthy donors or were given autologous fecal microbiota (control); each transplant was administered via nasoduodenal tube at the start of the study and 3 weeks later. The study was performed at the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam from June 2011 through May 2014. The composite primary end point was clinical remission (simple clinical colitis activity index scores ≤2) combined with ≥1-point decrease in the Mayo endoscopic score at week 12. Secondary end points were safety and microbiota composition by phylogenetic microarray in fecal samples.

RESULTS:

Thirty-seven patients completed the primary end point assessment. In the intention-to-treat analysis, 7 of 23 patients who received fecal transplants from healthy donors (30.4%) and 5 of 25 controls (20.0%) achieved the primary end point (P = .51). In the per-protocol analysis, 7 of 17 patients who received fecal transplants from healthy donors (41.2%) and 5 of 20 controls (25.0%) achieved the primary end point (P = .29). Serious adverse events occurred in 4 patients (2 in the FMT group), but these were not considered to be related to the FMT. At 12 weeks, the microbiota of responders in the FMT group was similar to that of their healthy donors; remission was associated with proportions of Clostridium clusters IV and XIVa.

CONCLUSIONS:

In this phase 2 trial, there was no statistically significant difference in clinical and endoscopic remission between patients with UC who received fecal transplants from healthy donors and those who received their own fecal microbiota, which may be due to limited numbers. However, the microbiota of responders had distinct features from that of nonresponders, warranting further study. ClinicalTrials.gov Number: NCT01650038.
Hey, when I was combing through this thread a few days ago. I came across this study you posted.
Are you able to help clarify what oral tolerance means? ( cause I can make common sense outta it, but I wouldnt say I understand it) also how do you conclude oral tolerance if they all were administered by ng tube
Moreover, they also said the people who used their own stool who achieved remission were "in limited no.s" ....
 
Here is something on oral tolerance, which was a big theory for IBD years ago.
Since they used a nasoduodenal tube the stool is released into the first part of the small intestine so basically the whole small intestine is exposed to the bacteria and any antigens. The immune sampling for oral tolerance seems to be mostly done in the small intestine. You could have a whole thread on oral tolerance, whether it is a valid IBD theory not sure. Otherwise I am having a tuff time explaining remission in the above
trial by using your own stool as the control.
Since I cannot get the whole paper,dont know what else they did or meds the people were on. Another interesting thing is that those with UC have dysbiotic colon bacteria, so how the hell can basically eating dysbiotic bacteria correct
the dysbiosis, unless the immune system is now tolerating the colon bacteria, which would down regulate the immune response, and ROS generation shifting
the facultative anaerobe populations back to the strict anaerobes in the
Clostridium cluster XIVa and IV.
Perhaps someone can get the paper.
I guess I will have to start researching oral tolerance again, did it years ago
but there is probably new info.
Old Mike
http://www.nature.com/mi/journal/v5/n3/full/mi20124a.html

here is one on eating colitis proteins
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571813

ah what the heck here is my healingwell thread on this
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3374103
 
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Finally on a com and not on the phone

Update Day 2,

So with Day 1's experience done, day 2 started off with a watery bowel movement from day 1's infusion. No severe discomfort, actually I feel worse on days previous to FMT when I had to go no.2

when donor gave stool, inspecting the stool showed signs of a little undigested fruit, but irregardless they were well formed and of light brown colour. Due to the increase in fiber consumption, donor stool was very large long single piece.

Learning pts from day 1,
use saline solution instead of water

On to the fmt, unfortunately today's transplant, was a complete failurein my eyes,
collected stool,
in ziplock bag,
with saline,
made manual fecal slurry,
strained mixture into cup,
downed the liquid.

this time round, I made a mess in the washroom, if one was to sneak up on me, they would say I had watery diarhea squirting out from my ass while twerking.

unlike day 1, where I felt preety ok after fmt,
today was an unpleasant experience, the saline made it all the more worse,
and I felt discomfort after. I am leaning towards diarhea tmrw once again because of today's mistakes.

things to improve on and plan for day 3,

since I am only collecting samples from donor for 5 days, time is running out and I have been sleeping on the best way to do a diy fmt.cause I need this shit to work.

so for the 3rd infusion,

I am genuinely intending to take an antacid (ranitidine) to end all the doubts on whether stomach acid and enzymes will kill the fmt bacteria.
moreover because my donor has been consuming a high fiber diet, mostly fruits with meals, there would be less pathogenic bacteria if any I hope... cause lowering stomach acid artificially is dangerous.

I also am not going to mix the fecal matter into a slurry anymore, as mentally its too draining, every time you choke on the fecal matter down yr throat, (and you will the moment the smell and taste hits), you have fecal liquid in yr entire mouth. disgusting just to think of it, daunting to experience it.

therefore, I will be manually breaking up stool to maximise surface contact area and then swallowing it, done it before, and way easier than fecl slurry method.

-Only other thing I am contempt plating is whether, I should consume food like oats (fiber foods) immediately after the infusion better propagate th bactria.

either way, update 3 should be 24 hours away.
and moreover I think his thread is catching spped, I mean 45k views, a lot of curious people considering fmt I guess.
 
Here is something on oral tolerance, which was a big theory for IBD years ago.
Since they used a nasoduodenal tube the stool is released into the first part of the small intestine so basically the whole small intestine is exposed to the bacteria and any antigens. The immune sampling for oral tolerance seems to be mostly done in the small intestine. You could have a whole thread on oral tolerance, whether it is a valid IBD theory not sure. Otherwise I am having a tuff time explaining remission in the above
trial by using your own stool as the control.
Since I cannot get the whole paper,dont know what else they did or meds the people were on. Another interesting thing is that those with UC have dysbiotic colon bacteria, so how the hell can basically eating dysbiotic bacteria correct
the dysbiosis, unless the immune system is now tolerating the colon bacteria, which would down regulate the immune response, and ROS generation shifting
the facultative anaerobe populations back to the strict anaerobes in the
Clostridium cluster XIVa and IV.
Perhaps someone can get the paper.
I guess I will have to start researching oral tolerance again, did it years ago
but there is probably new info.
Old Mike
http://www.nature.com/mi/journal/v5/n3/full/mi20124a.html
old mke, thanks for sharing , this is def one topic to look up on.
I have just put out an update on my day 2 experience, do you think taking acid suppressants would be a good idea?

do you believe stomach acid and digestive enzymes etc will affect oral tolerance?
woud love to hear yr thoughts

P.s . would be interested to hear other peoples fact based opinions and wildbill's
 
Acid suppression not sure might be a bad idea, let the body sort out what it wants to kill.
As far as what you are doing limit the stools exposure to air as much as possible, it may kill the strict anaerobes, and saline may also kill, do to osmotic rupture of cells.
Mashing the stool may not also be a good idea,air exposure.
My worry about doing oral stools for one thing is aspiration into the lungs, sounds like
a good way to get a really bad infection.
Then also stool gets stuck in your teeth and other mouth parts.
Perhaps the triple gel cap method is the safer way, at least for lung aspiration.
SIBO is a possible eating poo.
If you fill the small cap with solid poo and use gloves for that step, then change gloves
and are carefull, the surface of the next cap should be clean and don't have to worry about
mouth on lungs unless you vomit. The last thing you want to do is vomit.
Using 3 caps probably the less chance that the outside is contaminated.

I am not as brave as you as of yet, thanks for doing this important self study.
Old Mike

here is a double gel cap method
http://thepowerofpoop.com/epatients/fecal-transplant-instructions/how-to-make-fecal-transplant-capsules/

here is the triple method,
http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/IDWeek/42044
 
I know that is how they do it but is it the best way.
There is going to be oxygen in the saline, unless air is removed.
50% die in 4-5 minutes, so depending on how long people mess with this
you can have variable amounts of live bacteria.
Which brings up the question, do you even need a whole bunch of live bacteria.
Old Mike
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01568901#page-1
yes, you do need live bacteria. How else will they repopulate your intestinal wall if they are dead?

please provide a link that says oxygen is in saline, saline solution is water and sodium(salt).(EDIT- ohhhh you mean oxygen is in water because the molecule is H2O and that means 2 atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen, then yes oxygen is in water, scientists still have been successfully using saline for FMT regardless its not a big issues bacteria will survive long enough to perform FMT.)

I already know that anaerobic bacteria which live in the intestine are sensitive to oxygen and will die quickly and i have seen the link you provided at least 2 years ago.
 
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UnXmas

Banned
Since I cannot get the whole paper,dont know what else they did or meds the people were on.
This was the first question I thought of - what other treatments were involved? Though I assume somewhere in the full paper they take them into account. It would also be interesting to know what the results would be for a group getting no faecal treatment at all.
 
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If you use tap water to make saline it will contain oxygen.
Cant find specific link.
But even boiled water left sitting around will absorb oxygen from the air.
If you mix the poo in a blender like many do, then lots of oxygen.
If you mix in a baggie then best to squeeze out the air.
If part of the mechanism is oral tolerance then live bacteria perhaps not necessary,
If oral tolerance reduces the immune response and ROS generation, then your own
anaerobes may grow, or if immune tolerance is re established.
The appendix is now thought to be a protected storage area to repopulate your gut bacteria, so might be possible that once tolerance is re established the appendix can repopulate the gut with our own bacteria.
I might also add that appendix removal is associated with protection from UC risk,
and that once you have UC appendix removal not associated with remission.
Where that leads, don't know.
But I do agree that live bacteria are probably necessary for better colonization, just that many other things are going on with the immune system, even with dead bacteria.

And as you can see here you don't need live bacteria to modulate immune response
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905615/

or even this type of mechanism
http://ini.sagepub.com/content/3/6/481.abstract

here is another on killed bacteria providing an immune response
http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/265537

here is more on heat killed probiotics
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25116382

Just trying to show that the immune system can be modulated by
both live and dead bacteria.


OM
 
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@Rebel1992,

It's going to take at least 4 weeks for your microbiome to approach normal could be 6-12 months to fully normalize. I wouldn't suggest taking in too many untolerated foods just yet, but you do need fiber from many sources asap. but expect noticable changes after one week.

For comparison it takes 6 months to 1 year for an infant to establish its microbiome. Your expectations seem unrealistic and this is why i think you should have read more about this before doing it, but oh well you are here doing it as we speak, haha. Hope things work out for you!! i have had this thread up for two years and only 2-3 people besides me have decided to do this, your willingness to explore FMT is something we need more of around here.
 
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Hey wildbill, my expectatins of fmt are actually very similar to yrs.you see I dont necessarily have the equipment to ever statistically ensure that my microbiota is similar to that of my donor. Not to mention we do not yet have evidence of what an ideal donor microbiota should be like. Note: this is actually my 4th time doing fmt, the amount of fecal matter I have ingested on this 4th try is more than what I can say for the other 3. Donor's diet and all... my expectations from fmt are mainly the ability to start digesting normal fruits like apples without discomfort, and of yesterdays post, I am writing to inform that even though I felt like I was about to have diarhea today, I had one normal stool. That means the apple didnt give me diarhea this time around.
However I did feel a little discomfort with apples.
Not to mention I consumed several handful of grapes yesterday ...so if I get D later maybe it might not have worked ...who knows.

However I do agree with you on that the microbiome will take several days if not weeks for it to get established. Any maybe I might have started consuming forbidden foods too soon.
Well, I ll try apples in another few days time.
And lastly, regarding the issue of taking it months to work, I dont necessarily agree with that...like for c diff treatmemt, if it works...its almost within a few days. And even for ibd, most who have had success works within a few days. If not immediate.
just take the time to read the studies that have already been done on the first page of this thread and on c. diff, and good luck.
 
Here is why you dont want to use acid blockers when doing an oral FMT.
http://www.empr.com/news/acid-reducing-medications-c-diff-children/article/421273/
I completely agree with this.. but I was having a dilemma at moment of fmt. Didnt do it though.
Because fact is, we are quite unsure of whether certain bacteria in donors stool will survive stomach acid. And because I am unable to plan donors evacuation, unsure of when to eat food. Also going hungry actually tends to stimulate more gastric juices and could otentially harm the bacteria.

But the fact is, if we take ppi, theres a very legitamate chance that colonisation and take place in the stomach in a way similar to how h pylori buries itself beyond the mucus layer of the stomach.
 
And guys, I would like a response to the following regardless if another erson has answered it. Caused I dont neccessarily think anyone has the definite answer.

Now when I look up medical websites etc, they always say that a normal healthy stool colour is one that is ranges from green to dark briwn. But when I was a kid, my stools in each bm were about 3 stools. And were dark brown. I mean dark brown.
P.s I am uploading a stool chart into my profile's photo album regarding colour of stool.

I am asking this because the donor I did the fmt with had a light coloured stool regarless of what he ate and only had 1 stool in each bm regardless of how much he ate the day before.
Normal healthy color will range from light brown to medium brown, always brown though. Green is not good, black is not good, red(blood) is not good, and pale/white, absence of brown pigment is also not good.

Also if it floats, that's not good.
 
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