For the guys, a serious rant/question

[BWS1982]

How many of you in longer term relationships have done the "just say you're sorry, even if you're actually right" when you fight with your gf/fiancee/wife/etc...??

I had a lot of small talk, in a friendly advisory tone, today at work with "the guys" about the recent fight I've had with the fiancee. The thing is she's still either giving me a silent treatment (NEVER answers my phone calls or responds much in person) and if I can coerce/persuade her into responding in person, she is irate. She even stated "I didn't even think about you all day until I came home." Sunday night when she finally did talk before going to bed angry again, and again throwing my pillow in the hallway (indicating I don't get to sleep in the bed)...She also happened to put her engagement ring in front of the keyboard I'm typing on right now, to "symbolize" me spending more time at the computer than with her.

This is about 5% of our relationship, her and I fighting like this. The other 95% is us being best friends/partners/soul mates, etc...And on top of that, she was 4 days into her period when the original incident happened--But I still don't get why she flipped out the other night, in all honesty. She was sitting on my lap for a short bit (looking at the internet, not me) and I was sitting on my right foot, and my foot fell asleep and I asked her if she could get off of me. I even showed her how my jeans cut an imprint onto my bare ankle. When she got up, I looked at the computer screen, so she immediately became unhinged thinking I was signaling I was "done spending time with her" and stormed off to bed, playing loud music and throwing my pillow in the hallway the first night (of 2)...

Not that all of that is relevant, but since I did NOTHING wrong (except have circulation in my ankle that required addressing) and I did want to spend more time with her, I debated with her. BIG No-No, to the guys at work...We fight more about stupid sh*t than anything meaningful, we argue like an old couple. I don't cheat, she doesn't cheat, neither of us have drinking/drug/gambling problems or dishonesty issues, etc...so we fight about little crap, like what side of the road a sign is on or what clothes I wore on a date (both true stories)...I never initiate these "confrontations" either, I simply start and keep defending myself. Again, I get a big no-no head shake from the guys.

Here's my concern. EVERY one of the 4 guys at work tonight ALL said I should just say I'm sorry even in cases when I'm right. Just saying it should make it "all go away"...even if for the sake of argument that worked, doing so would establish a behavioral pattern and create ammo for the future (I have past history of both governing future fights)...She'd state "well you were wrong about _____ so how do you know you aren't wrong now?!" It becomes ammunition for an unrelated topic, because apparently me being wrong once in life indicates I'm always wrong. Or she'll think she can just get her way all of the time, because I'll ALWAYS say I'm wrong, even if it's not the case. It's like when you give into a child who is throwing a tantrum for a candy bar, doing so only reinforces that when they act a certain way they get what they want. It's human nature.

I also know of a couple other coworkers that told me about a fight in the spring that I should have done the same thing with. All married or longer term-relationship guys just say "swallow your pride and just admit you're wrong, we all do it, it's the only way they have peace"...

Then I hear women always going off (I hate reverse sexism, sorry) about how men are stupid or men are always wrong, blah blah blah...There's a facebook group that a bunch of middle aged women in my fiancee's family's social circle have joined called "Marriage is about two kinds of people, one is always right and the other is a husband"...yeah, real cute. If a man put it up the other way around, Oprah would send the National Guard to his doorstep for such an atrocity (again, double standard). But seriously, this is the same thing as when I put that "Equality means equality" rant thread up here a year or two ago in the support forum.

To summarize, do you guys just roll with these fights by saying "I'm Sorry" and "You're right" and let it go? You can really stomach the consumption of that much pride on end? I'm not always right, in fact, the fights where I was wrong end a bit quicker because I said so. But I'm not going to "pick my battles" as so many guys tell me when I did nothing wrong, I pick them when I'm right. That's not fair to me. I get screamed at all day at my job (literally, I'm not kidding), I don't need to get it when I come home only to be told I then have to apologize because I was still the wrong one. If I'm wrong, I admit it, if I'm right, I won't admit I was wrong: pretty simple concept to me.

Again, this was primarily aimed at the guys (I'm sure some ladies are in here, curious), but, don't you guys think maybe this is where women get this cliche "men are the wrong ones, men are dumb" ongoing joke? If we're always wrong, then we're always dumb, hence why they feel we're mindless drones bumbling about for beer, sex and food...Are there any guys who forgo this strategy and still end such fights?

What about principles? It's just not fair to say I'm wrong and sign over my dignity because "that's what they're used to, it's what they're waiting for" or something (from the sound of it)...I respect myself too much. It can't be that unfair in marriage, can it?

But just so you know, she's asleep on the third night (didn't even wait up to see me this time, a first) now and I bought her a very deep card and two roses, set it all up by her purse for the morning and wrote I'm Sorry on the envelope. I wrote inside the card how much she means to me, etc...I wanted to just try it, just to see. It stings, but I'm apparently going to lose my dignity no matter what I do. My engagement is to my computer and I'm not good enough to sleep in my own bedroom.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BWS1982]

Wow, that was long.

And Kev, if you are lurking, I'm going to PM this to you if you don't respond. You've always provided invaluable insight into relationships to me.

Wish my "test" luck...

 

[Dexky]

So, after all that, you went and did it anyway...oh man, you've just joined the biggest club in the world!!! Welcome!! I'm the president!!

Seriously though Benson!! "Pick you battles" is probably the best advice you could get!! Don't sweat the small stuff!! Or you could have a long relationship with your couch!!

 

[Rob]

Ok well Im not in a relationship but I can say that the argument about ya foot falling asleep was prob started by how u said it
u asked her to get off you straight up before saying why
perhaps u should of said
o crap my foots gone to sleep and I got major pins n needles, can u swap legs or change position your sitting?

But basicly you've done the only possible right thing now and said the "I'm sorry"
she will never let you win the argument as she thinks she is right
unfortunatly womens feelings etc are hurt easier than us guys and tend to take longer to heal
most guys shrug there shoulders an move on after a while an forget the argument an go watch the footy or tv etc

best of luck mate hope the card an flowers work for u

 

[Mike]

Seriously though Benson!! "Pick you battles" is probably the best advice you could get!! Don't sweat the small stuff!! Or you could have a long relationship with your couch!!

Agreed, I learned the touchy issues and pet peeves and either confront them to get over them or avoid.

 

[Jennifer]

Ok well Im not in a relationship but I can say that the argument about ya foot falling asleep was prob started by how u said it
u asked her to get off you straight up before saying why
perhaps u should of said
o crap my foots gone to sleep and I got major pins n needles, can u swap legs or change position your sitting?

Please excuse the female interruption...

Yes, what he said for starters and furthermore I'd like to add that it appears your woman doesn't like the amount of time you're on the computer. We understand that you worked all day and that everyone likes to unwind or has a thousand sites to check out before bed but whatever the case may be, we still like to have time with each other and the amount of time YOU like to spend obviously isn't the same as the amount of time she would like to spend or at least you guys seem to want to spend time with each other at different times. So it sounds to me like she didn't want you to be on the computer but she also wanted to spend time with you so she swallowed her pride and sat next to you in a loving way and spent time with you the best she could muster and then you go ahead and tell her to move. After having such major dialogue in your head that never actually happened and then being told to move like you're inconveniencing the person you wanted to spend time with, you kind of flip out, or at least that's what happens in the "crazy female" mind. To prevent such things in the future, you can either a) set aside time for just the two of you (but do keep being spontaneous otherwise another fight could occur), b) do what Rob said by choosing your words WISELY and most importantly c) suggest other things you could do together such as saying, "hey when I finish with this would you like to do _______?" By giving other options you reduce the risk of her feeling like your lap dog who you pay attention to when you feel like it. And no one is asking you to divorce your computer but you might want to check the amount of time you spend on it compared to the amount of time you spend with her. It obviously bothers her.

 

[Guest]

another female perspective - sorry, i know it said 'guys' but it might help....

i completely agree that rather than just asking her to get off your knee, it would have been better to explain why immediately, & made an alternative suggestion like 'pull up another chair next to me' or as has been suggested, swap knees...

having said that, she must have been extremely touchy anyway - either about the computer thing, or in general - to have gone off into such a temper over this, and keep it going for so long...

personally, i would absolutely hate it if my fiance apologised all the time just to keep the peace - we're not stupid, and most women would know when their guys are doing that.

i'm a big believer in equality, in all things, but especially my own relationship.... and i hate the 'yes dear, anything you say dear' kind of attitude. if i'd wanted a nodding dog, i would have bought one! lol.

i think, by the sounds of it, your girlfriend is feeling insecure, and she saw that tiny episode as something much bigger and more meaningful than it actually was - she blew it way out of proportion. if i were you, i'd probably be saying something like, i'm sorry you've been so upset over this, but i was not indicating i wanted you to go away, i was simply in discomfort, and you took the wrong impression. and then i would be inclined to talk to her about why she's feeling the way she does, and keep reassuring her that you love her, and that neither of you need these battles in your relationship.

 

[BWS1982]

Well, we've made up. The apology card, cd and roses went over well, as did the fact that I stated I feel awful about making her feel awful (but explained I honestly didn't see things the way they came across). She then apologized for how she treated me the last few days and that she shut me down when I tried to talk it out the other night. But she wanted me to realize I "show" her I don't want to spend time with her when I do or say certain things. She teared up at how much she missed me while she ignored me. :kiss:

Just to clarify two things, it wasn't about any cumulative computer time itself, it was about the specific time I was on it, the very moment I seemed to "choose it over her". At the time she became upset, she felt that the computer was more important than her. I didn't mean for that or feel that, but that doesn't matter, I gave that impression. I only spend time on it when she's got her own thing going on or she's asleep, etc.., like at this moment, she's been watching a couple episodes of True Blood on DVD.

The other thing is that this is kind of a "regular" type of blowup (but lasted about a day or maybe two longer)...which was why I was seeking some insight. They don't seem preventable. She admits she didn't used to apologize much, but the last couple years she's been very good about saying sorry-- as have I--much more often. I guess we're both working on meeting in the middle. Placing blame is an issue. This is my first and only serious relationship, still, and we're going on 6 years. We usually read each other like books, but we're also both equally stubborn and "have to be right"...There isn't one complacent party.

The last fight like this was about half as bad, and was during her last period also, so I honestly feel she gets leniency (but not a free pass) during these issues. Maybe not fair to me, but with my own bipolar or OCD, I realize what it's like to not trust what you feel or what logic tells you you should feel. She's still accountable for her actions, which is what she admits later (she always declares "you know I'm evil" in a remorseful/playful way, the last fight ended with a sorry note from HER in my car door handle mentioning the PMS). If you guys recall, she has extremely awful PMS issues, to the point of needing Rx help with it (which you may also recall was a BAD idea, per my other thread a bit ago)...

We are in the process of talking about these incidents in a manner that is preventative, or preemptive, in nature. Thank you for the advice. I'm not perfect and I know I could have done things differently (although she did know what I meant about my foot falling asleep, her issue was that I didn't invite her back on my lap afterwords again, which is true...I can be smart and stupid).

 

[BWS1982]

While just sitting together with her CD playing tonight, we both also came to the conclusion that this would make a good reception and/or wedding montage song, so it could be the one I choose for next year's montage. Fans of Michael Jackson will love it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5lO4hEAJHU&ob=av2e