Free radicals

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Jeff D.

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Apr 22, 2006
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I was learning about free radicals today in my exercise science class and it got me to thinking that Crohn's may be triggered due to an overabundance of free radicals. Free radicals are out of control atoms and they hit other atoms and cause them to become free radicals creating a system of free radicals which slowly destroys the atoms in that particular system. My idea is that we must eat a bunch of foods with antioxidants because they stop free radicals as well as stop them from forming. If anyone could tell me what they think of my idea I would b very appreciative.

Thanks
 
I think antioxidents do help to a point. I noticed that many people here take various suppliments and a good share of them happen to be antioxidents.

I use Turmeric because it is a good antioxident and antiinflammatory. Two desireable properties for a Crony. Ginger and Krill oil have the similar properties.
Green Tea also. I use all of them and it seems to help keep things under control.

Lately I have not been using them as often as I should, but I have not needed them either.

Dan Bergman
 
I think excess free radicals are a result of our disease but do not cause it. You need some free radicals because they perform a fuction. They are not always a bad thing but the balance is important.

I am still trying to understand how this all works together because of one of the alternative treatments I have used is a heavy duty oxidizer which creates lots of free radicals. Sounds bad at first glance, but the mechanism requires this to happen. The oxidation process kills lots of bacteria and when you have oxidation you have free radicals.

It is a complex issue and I hope you report back if you learn more about this. I would like to know more on the subject. Sorry I could not be of more help.

Dan Bergman
 
It does cause oxidation but I was told that it was bad for our bodies. If you eat an apple spray some lemon juice on it so you don't put free radicals in your system type of thing. I am going to start researching this and maybe do a project on it for class as it interests me very much.

Thanks for all the replies
 
Check this thread I posted earlier
http://www.crohnsforum.com/showthread.php?t=2330

In the first link, the author speculates that free radicals are one of the causes of Crohn's. and in the second study researchers in Canada found that people with Crohn's have high oxidative stress even in remission.

Maybe a good approach to treating Crohn's naturally trying to cover all the possible causes is:

- Go on SCD diet
- Take antioxidant supplements (fish oil, vitamines C&E, green tea etc....)
- Take a multivitamin and Calcium+D if needed (you can have a blood test and bone scan for this)
- relaxation techniques
- remove as much toxins from your environment as possible (no smoking, no alcohol, organic food, orgaic and natural body care products etc....)
- Take your meds as needed

But, the issue is it's easier said than done. I can say I'm doing 60% of the above, but I'm unable to go SCD or find organic food (especially meats and dairy) in my country.... Maybe I need stronger will power..... those were just my thoughts...
 
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This is a great thread Jeff. You have got me thinking now and can feel some homework coming on too!

Have read your other thread Mazen and need to reread it as not fully awake yet! I agree with the comments you have posted above but easier said than done as you say.. especially in relation to availability and cost too financially...

Dan your thoughts on the "balance" of free radicals is very valid and important because they do a specific job within our bodies but as always too much of something is a bad thing I think.. I also agree with your thoughts on the other thread about autoimmune diseases being linked etc. As you know I have hidradenitis (and four other skin probs diagnosed) and crohns and asthma - am also hypothryroid too. Anyone wanna shoot me now as am falling apart? lol
 
I have suspected that I have had an underactive thyroid for many years. It has been checked a while ago and the doctor did not find anything. I have since learned that it is a difficult thing to diagnose correctly.

I suspect this may be a part of the puzzle of this disease. Having to do with the improper immune response. Of course it is far from proven.

I really have learned a lot about what will help in my case, and probably why it works. No complete cure yet, but I have really made good progress lately. I doctor would shudder at my methods but hey, what ever works.

This free radical thing is one of the last pieces of the puzzle that I do not understand near well enough. Jeff brought up a very good topic that may help us understand more about the disease.

Dan Bergman
 
I did a little research and found this chemist/chemical engineer who has retired but has been working on finding cures, or maybe that is not a good term, he has been finding household ways to treat Crohn's Disease. If you read it all everything he says seems to fit in with ideas I have had personally and he added a new twist saying that in some cases Crohn's Disease can be linked with autism.

Let me know what you guys think and I was wondering if anyone would be willing to try some of these treatments. That way we can get some scientific data to back some of this up. I am contacting my doctor today to see if I can try all three methods but I will not do so at the same time.

Here's the link
http://www.krysalis.net/crohn.htm
 
I have printed out the report. It is the most common sense approach to Crohn's I have seen in a while. I have no doubt that this method will help most anyone to some degree. I would have tried DMSO a long time ago had I known it was an antioxident. It mirrors my own result with antioxidents only his would be much more effective because the absoption would be so much better. It would be much simpler also.

I somewhat disagree with his hypothesis that the faulty transport of Iron is one cause of the inflammation. I actually believe that part of it because I had thought at one time my symptoms could have been caused by my taking a multivitamin with Iron. I knew I should not have been taking extra Iron since I am a male, but I had leftover vitamins I had bought for my daughter so I took them. I thought it may have been Iron toxicity, but blood tests did not support that diagnosis so i forgot all about it. His explanation makes much more sense and fits with my onset of the disease.

The part I disagree with is that I think this Iron problem is either caused or excaberated by bacteria of some kind. My symptoms went to zero when I killed off the bad bacteria in my intestinal tract. Not a little better, but completely normal. This does not make his solution any less valid, but I think there is more to it than he proposes. But, I cannot say I am 100% correct either.

I admire the way he thinks, since he does things similar to the way I do, only he has more expertise. It gives him much credibility in my mind.

I would happily try his method since I already know the mechanisms he is after already work for me. But, I have no symptoms now so it would prove nothing.
I have a very effective way of controlling my symptoms, and since it works well for me I am going to stick with it.

The leaky gut part is accurate and dead on with my own thinking. I think my method of killing the bacteria helps this part also. I cannot prove that but the logical outcome should be a tighter intestinal tract.

I firmly believe that the best methods of controlling the disease is by the methods ands mechanisms he proposes. Since the risk is virtually nil, I think it should be something everyone considers. The results will come so quickly that there will be little doubt whether it works or not.

Thanks a lot for bringing this report to our attention. It has helped me verify my own thinking and fill in some other blanks.

Best Regards

Dan Bergman
 
Yeah thats exactly how I felt and the part about autism and Crohn's being linked because since I was a child I had autistic tendencies such as rocking and feeling my clothes on my body. I don't want anyone to think that this will cure anyone since it is only one person making a claim and saying it worked for people but I think that his ideas should be tried to see whether or not they work. To me he makes sense.
 
Hi Jeff. This report is the same one I mentioned in my thread. His theories seem to make sense especially the leaky gut part. So please update us with what the doctor tells you. I'm interested in the Melatonin, especially that it's anti TNF and an antioxidant, but I don't know if it has side effects. I read somewhere that as it's a hormone and stimulates immunity , people with auto immune diseases should not take it. But if that is so, how come it's helping people with Crohn's..... Has anybody tried it before?
 
I am guessing the Melatonin balances the improper immune response rather than boost it. Much like LDN does.

Dan Bergman
 
Hey Mazen I'm sorry for reposting it i got really psyched about it and just went on to look stuff up for myself instead of checking your post.
Also the chemist says that Crohn's isn't an auto immune disease but something else.
 
Hey Dan. But if somebody is taking an immunosuppressant (like Imuran in my case) and tries Melatonin, would there be an effect? would they negate each other or make things worse? as I'm on Imuran, I'm afraid to try Melatonin, although the idea of regulating my immunity is much better than suppressing it !!!!

In the bleow link it's mentioned that Melatonin triggered Crohn's symptom in a case; just go over the autoimmune with your mouse:

http://www.melatonin.com/melatonin-cautions.php

What is still it seems not confirmed even by the medical community, is if Crohn's is an autoimmune disease or not!!!!!!
 
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I would speculate that you are correct that the Melatonin would interfere with the action of the Imuran and produce an unknown result. Imuran works by lowering the overall immune response. It is an imperfect way of getting relief, but it does work a lot of the time. The Melatonin is going to try do its job and bring up some part or all of the immune response. I do not see those two actions as being compatible. So I agree with you on that point.

Personally, I would not use the two together. It is also possible that Melatonin does not work like LDN and boosts the overall immune system. This may still work because it would boost the part of immunity that is too low, but also the undesired result of boosting every other aspect as well. This may explain why it brought on Crohns symptoms in the case you mentioned. Probably would not happen most of the time, but if it is boosting everything then it surely could have that effect.

No one knows for sure how either works, but we must have some sort of hypothesis to proceed from and then see if the actual result follows the hypothesis. While it is possible to have good results and still have an incorrect hypothesis, it would tell us that we are close enough to consider it true. In another words, the hypothesis may be wrong but since proceeding off of it is doing the job we will let the exact mechanism for relief be explored by someone better equipped to find that mechanism. We only have to be correct in the fact that we get the results we are after.

I think the part that likely would not interfere is use of DMSO. I do not see any reason why that could not be used concurrently with Imuran. I would do some research and make sure there is no obvious conflicts, but really it is just a very good antioxident.

One thing about DMSO is that it will suck many things into the body whether you want it to or not. One example is if you use hand lotion and later rub in some DMSO. The stuff is so easily absorbed that it can carry some of the hand lotion into your body and bloodstream without you even thinking about it. You have to be careful not to have anything on your hands or skin that you do not want carried into the rest of your body. I could see the scenario where someone sprays mosquito repellent on their arms and then used DMSO and sucks that into their blood stream, not good.

That is just my thoughts on the matter. Sorry I get so freaking long winded, but I think long winded also.

I am not qualified to give any medical advice as you know, but I do follow my own
and this is the type of reasoning I use to make decisions.

How is the Imuran working for you?

Best Regards

Dan Bergman
 
Dan I think your words are very true. One thing I would advise is that anyone seeking out any of these ways of treatment talk to their doctor first about it. It would be awesome if we could get a trial running on this forum for these treatments but only try them if you want to and if you get an OK from your doctor because they may not have a bad side affect on their own but they may be a bad mix when combined with certain medications.
 
One of the best sources is blueberries... I live in one of the worlds best growing areas for blueberries... Loved them, but they didn't love me. Just a helping too much and I'd be off and running.. Long before I had any sign/symptom of IBD. I haven't indulged in years, esp since becoming ill.. Yet everywhere I look these days I see processed wild blueberry products... being promoted as the best source of natural anti-oxidents. If I had no prior issues with them, then opted to add some blueberry juice to my diet to get benefits, I might assume the resulting 'running' scenario was a flare-up of my disease. Its little snags like this that can make experimentation a waste or time, or else it causes complications or makes one assume things that aren't really pertinent.
 
Blueberries can give the hardiest intestines the runs if you over do it. I love blueberries but not many grow in our immediate area. I eat an apple a day, but I have to eat it after I have eaten something else or it will giver me trouble.

It seems that many good, healthy fruit that are high in anti-oxidents are mortal enemies to people with Crohn's. I can easily do the green tea and supplements without an issue. Fruit juice or just fruit I can do as long as it is with a meal.

Milk on the other hand never seems to set well with me. It is a good thing I do not care for it much. Not an anti-oxident food, but once in a while you would think I could get away with it. I must be lactose intolerant.

Dan Bergman
 
Hi Dan. Well I don't know what the Imuran is doing, as I had 2 major flares in 3 years on it (had to take Prednisone for 3 months and antibiotics in each case), and I also can only handle 50 mg, as anything above that caused me liver toxicity. But the doctor keeps me on it. He says the other alternative would be Remicade, or another more potent immunosuppressive med, and I'm not too keen on trying them. I don't know if it will make any difference if I stop the Imuran, but I'm just afraid to do so. I'm not very experimental with meds. I usually take what the doc says (after doing research on them of course), and take additionaly supplements that seem to not interfere with them (now I'm taking a multivit/min, vitamin C, Calcium,fish oil and flaxseed oil) and try to watch my diet as much as possible and get antiinflammatory stuff in it (green tea, Chamomile.....)


P.S: I couldn't find DMSO??? but I heard MSM is similar, do you have onfo on this?
 
I do not know a whole lot about either one. DMSO was originally an industrial solvent. It is used by people with arthritis and is used to draw other substances into the body since it is so easily absorbed into the body.

Not sure if it is closely related to MSM. I think they are used for treatment of similar conditions but that is about all I know.

DMSO is not approved to treat any conditions, but that only makes it more appealing to me.

Here is a good history of DMSO.

http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

Dan Bergman
 
Okay, I'm not going to lie: I totally did not read everyone's opinion; I am only responding to the original post here. I don't know if free radicals are a main contributor to the disease/a flare, but I find that tea with antioxidants, for example, makes me feel way better when I'm having a rough day!
 
Actually I was quite surprised how much Green Tea helped me out. I was merely using it because at one time I could not tolerate coffee. Now I can drink either one again, but drink more Green Tea just because it helped my symptoms. Not sure if it was the antioxidents or some other substance in it.

The Lemon Balm tea on the other hand, never did diddly, even though I expected more results. I still drink that in the evening when I do not want any caffeine.

Dan Bergman
 

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