IEP vs 504 plan which is better?

[kimmidwife]

Good morning,
I was wondering if anyone has experience with 504 plans and IEP's? We have just moved as many of you know. We are dealing with a new school and high school for the first time. They are telling me we need an IEP not a 504 I am wondering if this is accurate? Does anyone know which is better? We are very worried about all this our old school worked with us but this one is not as flexible.:ywow:

 

[crohnsinct]

Whaaaat?! I have a daughter with each plan. My youngest with a learning difference has an IEP...Individualized Education Plan. O with Crohns has a 504...accomodations for disability. An IEP clearly addresses how they are going to teach to your child's learning difference. Your daughter does not need accomodation in the method of delivering instruction. She needs accomodation in schedule, flexibility with work load, self monitoring for PE participation, access to bathroom, nurse etc...all due to a physical illness.

Sounds like they have it mixed up but in the end I guess it doesn't matter much as long as she is getting the things she needs.

edit - They may be getting confused as many kids with learning issues also have physical needs that require accomodation so perhaps they just lump everything into a students IEP.

 

[Clash]

crohnsinct- aren't there more meetings and learning growth assesments with IEP too? The way you explained it is how it was explained to me when I asked what was available. Because C's school is public independent they provide 504 but not IEP and there is no homebound. In a public school system, does homebound come with 504, IEP and general w/ illness(like Mono or chicken pox)?

 

[crohnsinct]

Yes theoretically there are more meetings with an IEP to discuss progress towards goals and tweak the plan but that rarely happens unless the parents push. They aren't legally required to have more than one a year again unless a parent asks for one then they MUST have the meeting. So if they want to put this under an IEP I don't imagine many more meetings would be needed.

Homebound instruction usually falls under district policy. So many days out = homebound instruction. I haven't heard of anyone around here having it added to an IEP or 504 as it is covered under district policy and they are NEVER more generous.

 

[my little penguin]

We have it under both.
DS has other issues which require both
So health stuff 504 of crohn s
Learning stuff more time for work etc .. IEP

 

[jmckinley]

Ryan has a 504 also for Crohn's.

 

[kimmidwife]

According to the special education program she claims the health accommodations can be put into the IEP. Caitlyn already had an IEP due to all the school she has missed due to crohns. Her old school was private so we had no issues with them accommodating her health needs.

 

[crohnsinct]

As long as you get everything you are asking for I don't see a problem with them calling it whatever they want. The bigger issue would be if she needed an IEP and they called it something else as so many things down the road require an IEP...accomodations on testing, college accomodations etc...without an IEP you are sunk.

 

[Patricia56]

You may want to review the info on the CCFA website that talks about this very issue.

When talking about IEP's and 504 plans it is important to understand the differences between accommodations and modifications.

Accommodations level the playing field. An example would be that she gets stop the clock testing when she has to use the bathroom. 504 plans provide accommodations.

Modifications change something essential about the playing field. An example would be limiting the questions on the test to core competencies. IEP's are about modifications.

My son has an IEP which was originally set up because of his CD but he has also developed some additional issues which are also addressed by his IEP.

The advantage to an IEP over a 504 is that an IEP has much more legal authority than a 504 plan. The IEP is a legal contract which spells out the services, modifications and accommodations the school is committing to provide and is enforceable through a special legal system just for this purpose.

A 504 plan is only as good as the paper it is written on if the school refuses to enforce it unless you are prepared to go to Federal court and sue them.

IEPs require regular (at least annual) meetings and regular testing to see if your child is advancing as expected. It can become very adversarial if there is conflict between the family adn the school over modifications and services but this would not be expected when the school itself is asking for an IEP to be put in place.

There are differences between the two that are important and explain why most kids with IBD do not qualify nor need an IEP.

A 504 plan will specify things like unrestricted bathroom privileges, access to food/drink, allowed to carry a phone, stop the clock testing, etc. These are accommodations.

Typically a school district will say a child with CD does NOT qualify for an IEP solely on the basis of the CD. To qualify for an IEP the child must need modifications (as opposed to accommodations) to allow them to access the curriculum as if they had no disability.

In the case of a child who is missing a lot of school due to CD flares, an IEP might allow the school district to provide home instruction (usually written in to the IEP as starting after a set number of days of absence). Instructional modificaitons might include reducing homework load, accepting proof of mastery as sufficient to advance, allowing a book report to substitute for a group project, identifying key concepts and only requiring mastery of those to advance.

 

[Patricia56]

Other important examples of modifications that could be provided as part of an IEP are

a shortened school day

late start to the school day

extended school year services where the child is provided school services during the summer

An IEP can NOT modify graduation requirements at the high school level (at least not in any state I know of since those requirements are usually legislatively mandated). But services and modifications in the IEP can make it easier for a child to meet those requirements.

 

[kimmidwife]

Thank you Patricia for clarifying the difference between the two. Caitlyn already has an IEP which doesn't have all that much in it currently but I guess now it be updated.

 

[Patricia56]

I really recommend you check out the CCFA website info. They have model 504 and IEP's that you can download and use as a framework for your child's plan.

 

[kimmidwife]

I am going to check it out tonight when it is a bit quieter. Kids got home from school and the chaos begins LOL!

 

[izzi'smom]

Kim, I am facing this same issue...I was told that Izz does not qualify for an IEP because she has not demonstrated any needs that require modification (while her meds may cause inability to concentrate, she has not demonstrated difficulty concentrating therefore can't get an IEP).

This being said, I was ALSO told that a 504 is meant for kids "with a broken arm" with specific short term medical needs.

I have fought for a 504, though; it is SO difficult to navigate this and I have heard talk of a parental advocate, which I need to look into.

Good luck!!

 

[kimmidwife]

Patricia,
I couldn't find the samples on the website. I found where they talked about it but no samples.
Angie,
We got Caitlyn to qualify on amount of work missed. If izzi has missed a lot maybe you could do similar.

 

[my little penguin]

Google adaa 504 school
It is for life limiting activities .
Meaning she does not function like other kids.
Wright 's law also has good links for advocates.
We got an Ibd letter from the Gi stating it was a disability and what modifications he would need at school. That is essential.
I will find the links later and post on the phone now.

 

[Patricia56]

I thought they had an IEP template too but only found the 504.

504 template
http://www.ccfa.org/resources/template-section-504-plan.html

Wrights law article "when schools punish sick kids"

http://www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=57

 

[my little penguin]

http://www.ccfa.org/resources/template-section-504-plan.html


http://www.pedsibd.org/parents/livingSchool.html

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/sec504.index.htm

http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/...3079/fc640e1d-ef03-44e9-a135-374257332e36.pdf

http://www.healthcentral.com/ibd/living-with-262503-5.html

http://advocacyforpatients.org/legal_education.html


Ok that should get you started.
We had to fight hard for our 504 for food allergies.
But if you do your homework then it really pays off.

 

[my little penguin]

Oops posted Same time

 

[crohnsinct]

Gosh Ang...I have had nothing but struggles getting my little one the appropriate IEP and now they have pulled her learning disability from the list of disabilities in our state so she will get NO services going foward. I am beside myself over this. I was a little surprised when O basically got handed the keys to the city for accomodations (they call them accomodations in our district not modifications) with very little effort. I am only now realizing that I should probably be a lot more thankful than I was.

Our doc gave a list of things to ask for which was basically the kind of stuff the CCFA lists. None of it was any skin off the district's nose...I think the worse is self monitoring for PE and work assignments. Basically she can go in and just say, "I didn't do that assignment because I was having a bad night" and not get penalized...but if we are being honest not many of the kids here would want to do that and they all push themselves harder than probably half their classmates anyway.

 

[momoftwinboys]

Is there any down side to a 504? We have a meeting to set up one up next month. I thought we had one in place last year at the elementary school, through the nurse, who suggested we get one in place after dx. At the end of the day, it turned out to be informal with the accomodations in place at the school based on the doctor's letter, but no formal plan. Now he is at middle school with no plan in place. Knock on wood, he did not need to use the accomodations much last year or this. Is it best to have one in place just in case?

 

[izzi'smom]

mom of twin boys, I don't think that there is. I would rather have it in place now, before the year begins, and have everyone on the same page regarding your childs needs. I keep envisioning Izzi being inpatient and the school telling me they don't have to provide a tutor or her schoolwork...I want the 504 in place NOW, before she is sick/I am stressed caring for her.
Her asst super tells me "we do that all of the time" regarding tutoring for sick children; would rather not just take her word for it.

On a related note, I pushed fairly hard today and was told we will be provided with a 504 (not a "healthcare plan") and Izz will be atending the school in our neighborhood that she was planning on attending (despite the fact that the ft nurse splits her hours between districts). My next goal is to push for a ft on-site nurse *insert evil grin*.

 

[InChristAlone]

Hi all!
I am a Special Ed. Teacher. A student qualifies for an IEP if 1. They have a disability 2. It adversely affects their educational performance and 3. It requires specialized instruction.

A 504, on the other hand, is for access purposes. If your child has Crohn's and requires accommodations to help them access their classroom curriculum, like if they were doing a timed test and had to go to the bathroom, this plan could say that the time could be interrupted. If they had to use the restroom several times and needed additional time on assignments and tests.

I hope this helps!

 

[Naturelover]

When my oldest was in high school, the school would not give him an IEP or a 504. They had something else, it was even less observed than a 504. Had to have a meeting with the principle and oldest son's teachers. When the principle found out we were told a different document was in place, but that not one teacher had been made aware of it, heads rolled. It should not have taken a principle to get my sons needs meet. Most principles would not have done what he did.

Good luck getting what you need. It is best to get everything in place before school starts if at all possible. The begining of school has enough of it's own chaos that it's difficult to get what you really need if you wait until school is in session.

 

[Mehita]

We have a 504 in place and I think all kids with Crohn's should have one.

Example: my son's math teacher was going over material and my son went to the bathroom because he wasn't feeling well. He came back 20 minutes later to find the class taking a test on the material the teacher just went over. He ended up getting an F on the test because he missed the review AND didn't have enough time to finish since he was in the bathroom with the big D. He was absolutely devastated since he's a self proclaimed "math geek" and straight A student. As a parent, I really didn't care about the F itself, but what really bothered me was the emotional toll it took on my son. These kiddos go through so much already with this disease, they shouldn't have to worry about the other stuff that can be so easily avoided. A 504 helps with that.

We also had one particular teacher who wouldn't let him use the bathroom when he needed to. She thought he was going too often. My son took it upon himself to just leave and go use the bathroom in the nurse's office. He felt awful about disobeying the teacher though. Again, a 504 helps.

And I agree with all who said it's very important to get the 504 in place BEFORE your child needs it or gets sick. The trouble we had was that our school didn't see Crohn's as a disability. How can going to the bathroom 15 times a day not be a disability???? Eventually, they did put together a 504 for him, but I was given very little input. They did everything and parent involvement was a "courtesy". It basically says his disability is "digestive" and the impact on his life is "self care and eating". He's allowed unlimited bathroom privileges (that makes me laugh - privileges! as if it's a reward!), and extra time for assignments when he's not feeling well. They denied my request to provide extra text books for home during flare ups and there is no mention of stop clock testing. I need to get that changed.

It's also my understanding that a 504 carries through college, but one cannot be created while in college? Not sure on that one. Think final exams, SAT, etc.

 

[AZMOM]

We have a 504 with the accommodations. The District requires a mimimum of annual review and on the parents' rights and responsibilities, it states that I can request a revision should her needs change. I'm a HUGE advocate of the 504. God willing, you don't need it but it only takes ONE cantankerous teacher......trust me!

Julie

 

[momoftwinboys]

We had our 504 meeting today and I think it went pretty well. Hopefully we do not need to use it too much. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[jenstaci]

I can totally help yall out!! I am a Special Education teacher and my son age 9 was diagnosed with pancolitis Crohns last Wednesday. You can have and IEP and have no modifications. The reason you have an IEP is if your condition is significantly is impacting your learning and your not at grade level expectations. So if you need to catch up on grade level or below grade level skills you have individual goals that you work towards to get you up to grade level. Sometimes that includes a pullout instruction to a resource room to try and "catch you up" because you are behind grade level peers. If you are 504 chances are you are not that far behind grade level and the school (teachers, counselors etc) can make some appropriate accommodations like, untime test, test read orally, breaks during instruction, small group administration, etc. So it really depends on what the individuals needs are. If you need some guidance please ask me! I would be more than happy to help in anyway I can. I have been in this field for 15 years and have advocated for plenty of people that need to know how to navigate th system. Now I will be on both sides!

 

[momoftwinboys]

I really liked how the counselor handled the hall pass. He said the kids with chronic illness often feel like they have little control in their lives. He suggested my son design his own hall pass for the restroom, nurse and drinking fountain and he would sign and laminate. Suggested keeping it on the smaller side so he can carry it in his pocket if he wanted.

They were sticklers on the attendance issue for the school award program. They do not make exceptions, however there is an appeal process that we can use each quarter to get his attendence excused if he meets the other critera. So it sounds like an additional hurdle but not insurmountable.

 

[Jenn]

In the process of getting a 504 now, mostly because Alex missed so much class time last year for appointments and illness. It's not a big deal in grade school, he's sharp and has caught up quickly so far, I'm worried about middle and high school coming up fast. I'm confused about what accomodations to list. Really, right now, he doesn't need any. But, I figure it's better to have the plan in place already, so we can add accomodations as they come up, right? We have done the free bathroom pass, but he doesn't need it - now anyway.

 

[Clash]

We do stop testing for bathroom breaks and more frequent breaks with college board testing as C will be taking the psat this year. We filled out the 504 and the 504 director sent it to college board but I know the younger kids take standardized testing some years so you may want to check on that. That is all I can think HS wise. We also have that he can go to the counselors office and just sit if he feels he is starting to stress but he's never used that. Our school has a 3 day make up period which is extended for C. There is more but I can't seem to remember the rest, although that ccfa form mentioned above is a really good starting point for sure!

 

[crohnsinct]

O's school gave her every single thing listed in that CCFA brochure and the only thing she has had to use is the bathroom pass but I think that is more from the water drinking than anything else.

In our schools kids are not allowed to carry anything to drink or eat into the classroom so that is one extra thing we added.

She self monitors for gym and if she just doesn't feel up to it she can say "no thanks, not today".

Also if he participates in any extra curriculars no penalty for missed practice, rehearsal, meetings etc and can attend even if they miss school for doc appt, infusions etc.

Self monitors for hw also. Can go in with it not done and is given a grace period to make it up in.

Stop the clock testing...actually she takes the test in guidance and there is no timing what so ever.

But like most of our over achieving IBD'ers...hasn't used any of it yet.

 

[jenstaci]

Dont foget that IEP's and 504 plans can be altered at anytime and changed as needed. If things get better or worse and you need to add, delete, or change things, that is your right as a parent at anytime you can call a meeting and discuss your concerns and needs.