LDN and Marijuana

[Eric]

Hi, I was diagnosed with Crohns five years ago and I have recently started LDN (I am on day five). I also have been using marijuana to treat my symptoms. My question is "is using marijuana while on LDN a bad idea", if so why? Any and all opinions are appreciated, thanks.

Eric

 

[David]

While we prefer Medical Marijuana threads to be posted in the MM forum, I've given Eric permission to post this here since his concern is directly related to LDN as well.

 

[mizgarnet]

Hi Eric- I don't have an answer to the mj question. I am a LDN'r and am loving it. In 4 months I have seen a dramatic change in my life. Hope it works as well for you.

Wendy

 

[Eric]

I am glad to hear things have worked out so well for you Wendy. If you don't mind me asking I have a few questions about your experience with LDN:

1)How long did it take for LDN to completely work?
2)How sever are your symptoms now, if you have any at all?
3)How limited is your diet, if at all?

Any information you have would be greatly appreciated, I am mostly curious about the diet question, because before I got sick I planed to be a chef, and being on such a restrictive diet has postponed that plan. Again thank you and I am glad to hear things are working out for you.

Eric

 

[effdee]

I've used marijuana while on LDN. Doing my best pseudoscience to think about the effects of LDN and marijuana, I couldn't think of why they would interact (negatively). The LDN works on OGF and OGF receptors, while the THC from marijuana latches on to CB1 receptors in the brain, resulting in the high, and the cannabinoids work with CB2 receptors, primarily dealing with inflammation. There are many more compounds than just those in marijuana, but it really is a very safe drug, as is Naltrexone. I haven't personally noticed any ill-effects that I would attribute specifically to using LDN and marijuana simultaneously.

For your specific question:
1) It was about 8 weeks before I was convinced LDN was having an effect. I noticed I was dreaming more often, and then a slight improvement overall for my symptoms.
2) 8-10 bowel movements per day, usually at least some diarrhea, and bleeding the majority of the time. Mild stomach pains around when I have bowel movements.
3) I don't eat processed foods and I limit sugar as much as I can. No issues with dairy so I still drink milk.

Hope this helps!

 

[mizgarnet]

Eric,
The first 10 weeks on LDN were a roller coaster ride! I would improve then go backwards. It took around 12 weeks to really make a difference. During the 10 week ride, I generally felt better. I could easily track how foods were effecting me. I am now going thru the withdrawls from bread, potatoes, pasta, rice....
I have very little symptoms now. I have occassional diarreah (when I indulge in my favorite- fried food), nausea if I over eat (lasts less than 20 minutes), and a few abdominal twinges. Most days are 9s out of 10 and some are actually 10s!!!!
Around the 3rd month, I did have a small flare for about 5 days. After that it was onward to good health.
My diet is really not very limited. I have learned to avoid fried foods in restaraunts. I fry at home with grapeseed oil and never deep fry. I do not eat peanuts or eggs- don't like them. I am starting to eat some raw veggies now. Small amounts and never on consecutive days. I have taken bread, potatoes, pasta, and rice out of the equation. I am trying to get back into a more healthy eating lifestyle. Dairy is okay for me but I cannot mix cheese with another protein or I will be in the bathroom. Give me a burger or give me a grilled cheese but do not give me a cheeseburger! I have found that eating at home is better for my system. I have the energy to fix meals, work 40 hrs one job, work 10 hrs on my own business, clean the kitchen, and pick up the house.
A good book for you to read is "The New Eating Right for a Bad Gut". It really explains the inflammatory nature of foods.
Follow your dreams. Do not let this insidious beast known as Crohn's stop you!
Wendy

 

[Eric]

Wow, I did not expect such detailed responses, thank you very much. If any one else would like to share their LDN experience it would be most appreciated. If it is of interest to any one I will post any improvements or setbacks I experience on LDN in a few weeks. Thank you.


Eric

 

[Dekar]

Yes, Eric, post your improvements/setbacks!

 

[healthy]

thanks guys- i am reading this and learning. we sooooo appreciate everyone's open and honest heart.

 

[Mattannika]

Yes, please post your experiences as you start out on your LDN 'trip"!

I myself just picked up my prescription after trying out lots of other "holistic" ideas, none of which seem to have helped. I had to go back on higher dose of Prednisone, am currently on 25mg and wondering what day I feel ready and I should start the LDN. Am a bit nervous about those dreams and any other reaction I may experience, especially as I am sort of traveled to Europe to visit my family where I grew up and am not really in my home environment.
Anyone have any input on starting LDN while on Prednsione? Good idea? Too early? Will I be able to notice any changes? I wonder if it influences each other. I am sure someone else has been in the same situation....would very much appreciate any input. Thanks!

I also have thought about medical marijuana but am not quite there yet. My husband suggested it but at the same time kinda laughs as I have never smoked in my life and he's not sure I could take it....I guess we will see

 

[Jmrogers4]

Recommended dosage of pred with LDN is 10mg. Are you tapering on the Pred? It does take a while for the LDN to start working so having some kind of back up like pred does help.
We just had a conversation about MM with my 13 year old at the dinner table last night and how some people believe it helps but it would not be a choice for him until he was an adult, then he could do his own research and decide but we would not be making that choice for him. Glad he is asking questions though.

 

[healthy]

what did you use as a back up while waiting for the ldn to kick in? did you use anything or wait to see if there was D or a flare? is your son also following SCD?
thanks

 

[Mattannika]

JMRogers, thanks. I did not know there was a recommended dose, so thanks for letting me know. I am tapering and am currently at 25mg. So I guess I should wait before starting LDN.

BTW, I also meant to ask what dosage of LDN those who use it started on. I have read several amounts, 2.5mg and more. My Naturopath had prescribed it for me starting with 4.5mg, and I never even thought about dosage when talking to her about trying it. Curious to hear from anyone really. What does it depend on? DO you just have to try and if so, how do you know if it's too much or not enough?

Thanks.

 

[Jmrogers4]

We did not use anything due to a miscommunication with his GI but we both agree we probably should have kept him on his aza for the first couple of months, he did flare about 2-3 weeks into the LDN which we tried the SCD diet and it seemed to at least get the flare under control or the LDN started working. We did not stay on it, it was just too restrictive as he is such a picky eater I was worried about getting enough nutrition/calories into him and he absolutely refuses to do any of the "shakes" so we do a very low gluten (only thing is sourdough bread for a lunch salad a couple days a week), low sugar (he is not a big fan of sweets but he does like ice cream), little to no processed food. He basically eats meats (beef, chicken, pork, eggs), veggies (has always like green vegs- broccoli, brussel sprouts, green beans, spinach and peas) and some white rice or rice noodles

 

[kiny]

Not sure if it's a good idea to just combine them, they would have a lot of cross reactions. Naltrexone is an antagonist of opoid receptors, it acts as a type of blocker, the result is a localised TNF-alpha and inflammatory cytokine blocker like infliximab but through opoid modulation. THC and CBD in marijuana both interract with those receptors, depending on how high THC is you would have a lot of cross reactions I think.

Naltrexone is used to get people off opoid dependency, because it's an opoid antagonist, it stops the action of the heroin on the opoid receptor, to get them off heroin, it just happens to act as a TNF-alpha / inflammation blocker too. I have no idea what is going to happen if you add marijuana on top of it, it just doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do.

 

[ctrl z]

I've used cannabis on top of LDN several times and haven't noticed any negative reaction. I haven't noticed any reaction at all. The cannabis works and the LDN seems to still work. I'm not a daily user so maybe that makes a difference. I don't know.

What reaction do you think it would have, kiny?

 

[ctrl z]

I emailed Dr. Zagon and he said that he does not know much about LDN and cannabis but his guess is that there would be no interaction.

 

[kiny]

I emailed Dr. Zagon and he said that he does not know much about LDN and cannabis but his guess is that there would be no interaction.

Dunno what to say or why he says that.

Naltrexone is an opoid antagonist, including cannabinoid CB1 receptor. I never used naltrexone or LDN, but there are probably warnings about using recreational drugs together with LDN.

Naltrexone is to get people off opiates and cannabinoids, naltrexone blocks the action of them on the opoid receptors, I don't know how he or people can say there are no interactions.

Maybe he means there are no negative consequences, but there will be cross reactions, it's why it's used to treat addicts in the first place.

Don't know much about LDN, maybe I am wrong, it's such a badly documented drug, and I can find nothing related to crohn's disease, but I don't get why he says there is no interaction. I've never been pro or against LDN or anything, I have no clue how LDN works, my guess is that the LDN blocks TNF-alpha through opoid modulation in the brain and gut, but what it does is badly documented, and what it does for crohn's disease isn't documented at all, it isn't explained anywhere what it's doing in people with crohn's disease.

I would be apprehensive to recommend LDN to someone with Crohn's disease just because no one seems to know what it's doing and there are no papers, no documentation, no FDA testing, nothnig that shows what it does in people with crohn's disease, it crosses the blood brain barrier and using opoid modulation is a big no no in kids for most doctors because of the effects is has on the brain. That's all, I just don't know about this drug, I think it should be documented before anyone can say it is safe, I don't know why people keep recommending this stuff without knowing a clue about it, not talking about you, just....why would you do that without knowing what it does.

I mean, people are justifiably affraid of some drugs used for crohn, but then people recommend stuff that is untested, has no documentation for crohn's disease, has no safety profile, no one has a clue what it does, and then people recommend this to kids with developing brains....wut.

 

[ctrl z]

I understand what you're saying. I guess it's because there have been people taking it for years and they haven't grown any extra eyeballs, tentacles, or cancers. I chose to try it out because of that and I could never find any reason to not use cannabis while I took the LDN.

There are conflicting studies out there about naltrexone and cannabis. Nothing that shows taking the two together would produce disastrous results. If anything, it either slightly attenuated the effects of cannabis, enhanced it, or did nothing at all.

Interaction between naltrexone and oral THC in heavy marijuana smokers.

Opioid antagonism of cannabinoid effects: differences between marijuana smokers and nonmarijuana smokers.

Naltrexone does not block the subjective effects of oral Delta(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol in humans.

There was one study that showed VLDN made people want to stop using cannabis.

REDUCED CANNABIS USE FOLLOWING LOW DOSE NALTREXONE ADDITION TO OPIOID DETOXIFICATION

I'm just not seeing how they would interact on a cellular level in any way that would be negative.